Finally, a dissenting view from the sixth guy. Same complaints as I have - those sincere, pleading vocals, the "oooh and ahhhhs" and the repetitive choruses. Actually I've had this problem with the choruses ever since Counterparts.
I agree a lot with what Dante said, because this was the first Rush album that came out for me when I was a fan, so back in high school. Far Cry has always been one of my favorite Rush songs and sounded amazing live. Malignant Narcissism was another highlight. I think the album has overall aged pretty well too and is definitely one of their more consistent efforts.
Good discussion and a very entertaining video. Thanks for doing this one! "Snakes and Arrows" is (unfortunately) the only Rush album I don't own, and it looks like I missed the chance to get it on CD. Hoping it becomes available on CD again some day. I really enjoyed Dante's take on it in particular. My album that had that impact on me was "Exit Stage Left," which I bought when it was a new release after hearing "Tom Sawyer" on the FM radio in Chicago in 1981 and seeing it on the track listing and buying that cassette. I didn't realize that I wasn't buying the studio album that the song on the radio came from (this was waaaaay before Internet), but what a happy mistake.... I popped that cassette into my player, and halfway through "Spirit of Radio," I was in love and realized I wanted to be a bass player (seriously, it was that profound). All of us Rush fans have that first powerful experience, just with different albums. But yeah, great video, and I hope "Snakes and Arrows" becomes available on CD at some point.
Props to Jamie and Eric for going against the grain here. I don't know if I completely agree with them but it takes guts to go against the "Rush Homer's". 🙂.
Love the show! "It's a vibe" seldom works for me as a description, but it does for me for this (and Presto). They're different. This is heavy sonically and lyrically. Only P/G is as dark to me- but this is a different kind of dark: Now it's come to this so make the best of it kid. One of their better produced/sounding. I dig S & A!
The documentary Game of Snakes and Arrows is so good. Great interviews, some very cool recording video, and a lot of interaction with the producer. At one point he has the balls to ask Neil to re-record a drum track, thinking he could do better, and inspired Neil to really up his game and come up with three different parts for each verse. Great band interaction as well, they seemed in a really good place…
I think "Far Cry" might be Rush's finest latter day song, and that's saying something. But there are 3-5 songs on this record that don't do much for me, and for Rush, that's a high percentage of songs that don't hit. I think if they broke it down to an 8 song album like they did in the 80's, I would have received it much better. Their run from "Farewell To Kings" thru "Presto" (from 1977-1989) has such a high bar of excellence to me, that it's tough to stand up to those releases. Furthermore, I love "Vapor Trails" and "Clockwork Angels," the albums that come before and after this, but this one doesn't compare to those, either. I don't think it's their worst album, but it's definitely in the bottom quarter of their discography for me. My entrance point was picking up "Exit Stage Left" on disc when I was 16. The first album I picked up on the day of release was "A Show Of Hands," so clearly, the 2nd and 3rd quadrant of albums were important to me. I really love the dynamics of their songs and how you can tell what era each song comes from. In that sense, the keyboards work for me because they add different aspects to the songs. To my ears, there's not much difference between songs on "Counterparts" and songs off of this record. The songs just don't stick out from each other like other periods do, and that's probably why those 2 albums are in the lower echelon of albums. I probably give this a "6.5" or so, but I think if it were released with my favorite eight songs off of the album, it could be as high as an 8 or so.
For some reason I remember nobody talking about this album when it came out. I bought it back then, and I'll admit it didn't do much for me. However, I re-listened to it recently and now I think it's really good.
My gateway Rush album was Moving Pictures and I saw them live 5 times from the Signals tour to the 30th tour. Snakes however is my favourite “later” album and agree this album and tour was Geddys vocal peak before the downward (but still great) slide . 7/10 for me 😃👍🏻
Great topic and discussion!!! I love this album, it holds many great memories, saw them on this tour twice with my son which is when he became a RUSH fan himself, My first and still my favorite album is All The Worlds A Stage and been a fan since 1976! and as for S&A it's in my top 10. love the songs and production. I love Snakes And Arrows Live also. my rating 7.5/10
It took me a long time to warm to this album, longer than I care to admit. However, once I was able to accept it on its terms, it wound up going into regular rotation. There is an overall veneer of seriousness to this album that makes it a terrible entryway for new listeners, but for fans like me, it really gets to you once you let it.
When they did Far Cry in concert it was fabuous.I can't say anything bad about any Rush albums because they're a prog band.And what do prog bands do anything that's different.More acoustic guitars,putiing violin on a song whatever might take a little bit longer to get into a song or album but I always get into the music
I love this album, top 5 Rush for me… Agree with Alex’s performance being really strong, it wasn’t that he played a lot of acoustic guitar, to me it was how good it was blended with the sonics of his electric, very well done… and someone mentioned how his guitar is used as textures, where in previous albums it might have been keys…
I think Far Cry and the instrumentals are fantastic... but I can't stand the rest of the album! Tempos that drag, talky lyrics shoehorned into awkward melodies, Geddy's keening vocals.... ugh. And there was a big to-do about Geddy taking the Moog Taurus foot pedals out of mothballs but if it's on the album, I'm sure not hearing it. Rating: 3/10
Thanks for this. Very interesting. Rush were back with S&A after the rather horrible VT of which I liked only 3 songs. On S&A there's not a single song I want to skip beforehand. There's nothing Xanadu or La Villa Strangiato or Free Will like, so no really stellar songs but overall it's very good. Then I saw them in the Rotterdam Ahoy where the shows were recorded for the subsequent live album and DVD. They included something like 7 songs from S&A in the setlist and they fitted in very well among the older "hits". The production is indeed great, the mix is good but it's mastered a bit loud. So that's a drawback
It was a bit of a let down for me after Vapor Trails. That along with Rush in Rio really made me buy more Rush. I liked Moving Pictures but it really started with Vapor Trails. S&A is just more middle of the road Rush en just too long (like all later Rush). If i picked the 8 best songs it would be a great record, but still no Vapor Trails. Belongs to my least played Rush albums.
Didn't like this upon release but it has grown on me over the years. I kinda agree with Jamie and Eric but I'd give it a 6 out of 10. It just seems like there is alot of complaining in the lyrics. And it is a little too long.
It was Neil facing his mortality and the band seeing the finish line and putting in one last great push. Watch the documentary. This is a real band effort. There is a scene where Geddy and Alex have a song pretty much done and Geddy sais "its never done until the big guy comes in and lays down the drums". And Neil come comes and plays with a sense finality and desperation not seen in many years. Its a really real heavy moment. The darkness and melancholic realism is exactly what i love about this album. 9 outa 10. It makes sense the younger guts dont get it. Dante is an old soul so of course he got it.
Big long time Rush fan here.The majority ofS&N I like but some of it drags and a bit tuneless.Wind Blows,Bravest Face,Spindrift,Faithless and We Hold On just bother me.I probably prefer HYF or TFE over it.
Snakes and Arrows was also my first Rush album. I couldn't get enough of it when I was 17. Unfortunately, it just hasn't held up over the years for me. The fact that Vapor Trails is my favorite Rush album (well, it alternates with Grace Under Pressure depending on the day) doesn't do it any favors. Lyrically, it's Neil at his most preachy (ironically), and most of the choruses are pretty weak melodically. Bravest Face, Good News First, The Larger Bowl, We Hold On, and The Way the Wind Blows are the biggest offenders regarding this. The Larger Bowl should have been left off the album (nothing about it works frankly), and Faithless is just Resist from Test for Echo but not nearly as good. The first three songs are great (Far Cry might be a top 10 Rush song for me) and the instrumentals are a welcome break from getting the same few themes bashed into your head over and over again. As a six song EP with the first three songs and the instrumentals would be a 7/10, but the album as a whole is 3.5/10 for me.
Snakes & Arrows is a good Rush album for Rush fans and that's about it. There is not a lot to pick apart unlike Pesto, Roll the Bones or Vapor Trails it's just an "ok" album that isn't that memorable. 5/10
The mature statement is complete BS and fanboy. By that same logic is Metallica's 72 Seasons is more mature than Ride the Lightning, Masters of Puppets or even the Black album...Nope
Rush matured as a band. Neil matured as a lyricist with his views on the world. Saying that Snakes & Arrows is a more matured record than a 70s record is a very fair statement. You made the Metallica reference, not us. And you also have to remember that Metallica swapped members over the years, Rush really didn’t.
Finally, a dissenting view from the sixth guy. Same complaints as I have - those sincere, pleading vocals, the "oooh and ahhhhs" and the repetitive choruses. Actually I've had this problem with the choruses ever since Counterparts.
I agree with Grant Permanent Waves is my favorite Rush album.
I agree a lot with what Dante said, because this was the first Rush album that came out for me when I was a fan, so back in high school. Far Cry has always been one of my favorite Rush songs and sounded amazing live. Malignant Narcissism was another highlight. I think the album has overall aged pretty well too and is definitely one of their more consistent efforts.
Excellent discussion and breakdown of Snakes. For me, it was a beautiful bridge to their final masterpiece, Clockwork Angels. I give it a 9.
Good discussion and a very entertaining video. Thanks for doing this one! "Snakes and Arrows" is (unfortunately) the only Rush album I don't own, and it looks like I missed the chance to get it on CD. Hoping it becomes available on CD again some day. I really enjoyed Dante's take on it in particular. My album that had that impact on me was "Exit Stage Left," which I bought when it was a new release after hearing "Tom Sawyer" on the FM radio in Chicago in 1981 and seeing it on the track listing and buying that cassette. I didn't realize that I wasn't buying the studio album that the song on the radio came from (this was waaaaay before Internet), but what a happy mistake.... I popped that cassette into my player, and halfway through "Spirit of Radio," I was in love and realized I wanted to be a bass player (seriously, it was that profound). All of us Rush fans have that first powerful experience, just with different albums. But yeah, great video, and I hope "Snakes and Arrows" becomes available on CD at some point.
I’m looking at it on Discogs right now, $5 for the CD and $5 for shipping.
Props to Jamie and Eric for going against the grain here. I don't know if I completely agree with them but it takes guts to go against the "Rush Homer's". 🙂.
Love the show! "It's a vibe" seldom works for me as a description, but it does for me for this (and Presto). They're different. This is heavy sonically and lyrically. Only P/G is as dark to me- but this is a different kind of dark: Now it's come to this so make the best of it kid. One of their better produced/sounding. I dig S & A!
The documentary Game of Snakes and Arrows is so good. Great interviews, some very cool recording video, and a lot of interaction with the producer. At one point he has the balls to ask Neil to re-record a drum track, thinking he could do better, and inspired Neil to really up his game and come up with three different parts for each verse. Great band interaction as well, they seemed in a really good place…
I think "Far Cry" might be Rush's finest latter day song, and that's saying something. But there are 3-5 songs on this record that don't do much for me, and for Rush, that's a high percentage of songs that don't hit. I think if they broke it down to an 8 song album like they did in the 80's, I would have received it much better.
Their run from "Farewell To Kings" thru "Presto" (from 1977-1989) has such a high bar of excellence to me, that it's tough to stand up to those releases. Furthermore, I love "Vapor Trails" and "Clockwork Angels," the albums that come before and after this, but this one doesn't compare to those, either. I don't think it's their worst album, but it's definitely in the bottom quarter of their discography for me.
My entrance point was picking up "Exit Stage Left" on disc when I was 16. The first album I picked up on the day of release was "A Show Of Hands," so clearly, the 2nd and 3rd quadrant of albums were important to me. I really love the dynamics of their songs and how you can tell what era each song comes from. In that sense, the keyboards work for me because they add different aspects to the songs. To my ears, there's not much difference between songs on "Counterparts" and songs off of this record. The songs just don't stick out from each other like other periods do, and that's probably why those 2 albums are in the lower echelon of albums. I probably give this a "6.5" or so, but I think if it were released with my favorite eight songs off of the album, it could be as high as an 8 or so.
For some reason I remember nobody talking about this album when it came out. I bought it back then, and I'll admit it didn't do much for me. However, I re-listened to it recently and now I think it's really good.
Wonderful to hear!
Brilliant album - real return to form
My gateway Rush album was Moving Pictures and I saw them live 5 times from the Signals tour to the 30th tour. Snakes however is my favourite “later” album and agree this album and tour was Geddys vocal peak before the downward (but still great) slide . 7/10 for me 😃👍🏻
Saw the tour, love the LP. It shows how deep Rush's vault is when they can open shows with Tom Sawyer and keep going for two hours!
Great topic and discussion!!! I love this album, it holds many great memories, saw them on this tour twice with my son which is when he became a RUSH fan himself, My first and still my favorite
album is All The Worlds A Stage and been a fan since 1976! and as for S&A it's in my top 10. love the songs and production. I love Snakes And Arrows Live also. my rating 7.5/10
7.5 is excellent! Thanks for sharing!
It took me a long time to warm to this album, longer than I care to admit. However, once I was able to accept it on its terms, it wound up going into regular rotation. There is an overall veneer of seriousness to this album that makes it a terrible entryway for new listeners, but for fans like me, it really gets to you once you let it.
When they did Far Cry in concert it was fabuous.I can't say anything bad about any Rush albums because they're a prog band.And what do prog bands do anything that's different.More acoustic guitars,putiing violin on a song whatever might take a little bit longer to get into a song or album but I always get into the music
I love this album, top 5 Rush for me… Agree with Alex’s performance being really strong, it wasn’t that he played a lot of acoustic guitar, to me it was how good it was blended with the sonics of his electric, very well done… and someone mentioned how his guitar is used as textures, where in previous albums it might have been keys…
Excellent album from beginning to end!
So funny, I’ve always thought Bravest Face was the best song on the album and also the strongest lyrics. I seem to be the only one.
I think Far Cry and the instrumentals are fantastic... but I can't stand the rest of the album! Tempos that drag, talky lyrics shoehorned into awkward melodies, Geddy's keening vocals.... ugh. And there was a big to-do about Geddy taking the Moog Taurus foot pedals out of mothballs but if it's on the album, I'm sure not hearing it. Rating: 3/10
Dante's opinion is basically the exact same way I feel. He put it very well
Nice! Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for this. Very interesting. Rush were back with S&A after the rather horrible VT of which I liked only 3 songs. On S&A there's not a single song I want to skip beforehand. There's nothing Xanadu or La Villa Strangiato or Free Will like, so no really stellar songs but overall it's very good.
Then I saw them in the Rotterdam Ahoy where the shows were recorded for the subsequent live album and DVD. They included something like 7 songs from S&A in the setlist and they fitted in very well among the older "hits".
The production is indeed great, the mix is good but it's mastered a bit loud. So that's a drawback
It was a bit of a let down for me after Vapor Trails. That along with Rush in Rio really made me buy more Rush. I liked Moving Pictures but it really started with Vapor Trails. S&A is just more middle of the road Rush en just too long (like all later Rush). If i picked the 8 best songs it would be a great record, but still no Vapor Trails. Belongs to my least played Rush albums.
I could give it a 5 if I am in the mood for it.
Excellent
I Love Snakes and Arrows. Only complaint… it’s a bit long. Although I enjoy all the songs, 8-10 would have been better. Still, I give it a 9.5 rating.
Great Album.........
Didn't like this upon release but it has grown on me over the years. I kinda agree with Jamie and Eric but I'd give it a 6 out of 10. It just seems like there is alot of complaining in the lyrics. And it is a little too long.
It was Neil facing his mortality and the band seeing the finish line and putting in one last great push. Watch the documentary. This is a real band effort. There is a scene where Geddy and Alex have a song pretty much done and Geddy sais "its never done until the big guy comes in and lays down the drums". And Neil come comes and plays with a sense finality and desperation not seen in many years. Its a really real heavy moment. The darkness and melancholic realism is exactly what i love about this album. 9 outa 10. It makes sense the younger guts dont get it. Dante is an old soul so of course he got it.
Big long time Rush fan here.The majority ofS&N I like but some of it drags and a bit tuneless.Wind Blows,Bravest Face,Spindrift,Faithless and We Hold On just bother me.I probably prefer HYF or TFE over it.
Test for Echo is largely the same record done better
Snakes and Arrows was also my first Rush album. I couldn't get enough of it when I was 17. Unfortunately, it just hasn't held up over the years for me. The fact that Vapor Trails is my favorite Rush album (well, it alternates with Grace Under Pressure depending on the day) doesn't do it any favors.
Lyrically, it's Neil at his most preachy (ironically), and most of the choruses are pretty weak melodically. Bravest Face, Good News First, The Larger Bowl, We Hold On, and The Way the Wind Blows are the biggest offenders regarding this. The Larger Bowl should have been left off the album (nothing about it works frankly), and Faithless is just Resist from Test for Echo but not nearly as good.
The first three songs are great (Far Cry might be a top 10 Rush song for me) and the instrumentals are a welcome break from getting the same few themes bashed into your head over and over again. As a six song EP with the first three songs and the instrumentals would be a 7/10, but the album as a whole is 3.5/10 for me.
Snakes & Arrows is a good Rush album for Rush fans and that's about it. There is not a lot to pick apart unlike Pesto, Roll the Bones or Vapor Trails it's just an "ok" album that isn't that memorable. 5/10
The mature statement is complete BS and fanboy. By that same logic is Metallica's 72 Seasons is more mature than Ride the Lightning, Masters of Puppets or even the Black album...Nope
Rush matured as a band. Neil matured as a lyricist with his views on the world. Saying that Snakes & Arrows is a more matured record than a 70s record is a very fair statement. You made the Metallica reference, not us. And you also have to remember that Metallica swapped members over the years, Rush really didn’t.