Intel Bricked Your Interface
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- Опубліковано 23 чер 2024
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Never gave a thought about thunderbolt as I gaze at my RME with USB and zero latency 🤷
As you THINK you’re looking at zero latency! 😂😂
This is why I stick with RME. They genuinely seem to care about making equipment that lasts.
RME Thunderbolt interfaces will be impacted as well.
100% USB is here to stay
What does RME have anything to do with the topic Thunderbolt? All manufacturers make great interfaces including top dogs from Apogee, Lynx...
@@eman0828 RME uses USB
@@eman0828I assume they're referring to RME already running into, and then foreseeing other, large issues with Thunderbolt and deciding to take action seemingly before anyone else.
I don't know the original commenter, so I may be entirely incorrect. But that's what I took from their comment.
Please don't take my commenting as argumentative in any way with your comment. Your comment is still completely accurate in my humble opinion.
(Sad we have to try and clarify/qualify comments to hopefully avoid unnecessary tension/arguments online lol.)
One thing I will always remember Barry by is his cornbread English
RME put out a statement detailing why USB 2/3 is sufficient for audio applications, thunderbolt is overkill.
RME Rules
Yeap RME and have NEVER looked back.
RME will also probably put out a statement telling us why USB4 is sufficient while not telling everyone that USB4 is basically Thunderbolt..lol
Unfortunately, those that invested in TB1/TB2 interfaces with other vendors might be out of luck when running on Windows and newer PCs. At least, they could still use them on the latest Macs for now. I agree that from a latency perspective, when properly designed like in RME’s case with their through their bespoke USB controller built on their FPGA, USB2/USB3 is sufficient. When working with off-the shelf USB controllers in the audio interface, that might not always be the case unfortunately, especially with higher channel count. That being said, with Intel EOL some of their Thunderbolt chipset, it has forced interface vendors to go back to the drawing board and leverage more capable USB controllers or even look at their own FPGA implementations (this last part on FPGA is supposition on my part).
@@danielgaudet6114 They really dropped the ball with backwards compatibility. With so many devices using TB2, they should have allowed one more generation.
But vendors really don't have to do much, as Intel actually has a major part in dictating the evolution of USB, as from USB4 going forward, it's built on thunderbolt technology. USB4 is technically Thunderbolt 3 and all iterations going forward will be based on what Thunderbolt brings and then, using the "standards" that we are used to from USB, allows for vendors to pick and choose what they want to add from TB. If they want everything, that would require certification (if I'm remembering correctly from a few years ago).
RME & USB ... a winning combination. Won't change from this ever. Been on it for 20 years (or more).
Thanks for the video, Barry. FYI to all: Mac's actually have multiple TB Controllers. As long as that's true, TB2 and 3 will keep working on Macs. PC Peeps: USB 4, in some cases has TB3 compatibility. Your MOBO may have USB 4.
Assembled my computer a few years ago without an inkling about Thunderbolt. Thank God. Only heard about it when I saw some audio interfaces running on thunderbolt.
Barry, I will say that Intel dropped the ball for backwards compatibility for Thunderbolt4, but like with all "superior" mediums, it's not heavily used because Thunderbolt requires certification which requires licensing with cost manufacturers. So like Firewire of the past, we were told that USB is just good enough, even though for audio, firewire was the much best medium. I've said this in a few comments and I will say it here, it will be interesting to see how manufacturers spin USB4, seeing that Thunderbolt3 is the foundation of USB4. Everybody that is using USB4 is basically using Thunderbolt3.
As always, great video!!!
And the dead 1394 FireWire is still working fine even on Windows 11...
yep, I'm sill running a 828mkii and a 896HD on a new system I just built, no problems.
yep, I have the Apple TB2->firewire dongles, plugged into a TB2->TB3 dongle working perfectly in addition to a PCIE firewire card. Apple killed off Firewire support a couple of OS's ago.
I lost my firewire with Windows 10, and my Focusrite liquid saffire 56 no longer supported. Also had to replace USB devices, like Canon scanner, and camera. Also no support for Avid Eleven Rack. I guess I should have tried firewire with Win 11, but I already moved on.
Thunderbolt is overkill for anything audio but can have some advantages in terms of data write speeds/high bandwidth devices (like with video). Thankfully in audio, you don't need those speeds. My Mac runs my USB-C MOTU M2 and an USB-C external ssd with no hiccups! Audio only needs USB 2.0 speeds which has been around for 15+ years.
Sorry I think this video should be remade or there should be a follow up clarifying what it's saying. Intel did NOT recently kill Thunderbolt compatibility. Thunderbolt 4 on Windows has never been compatible with TB1 or TB2 since its release in 2020. David at MixBusTV ran into TB4 > TB2 compatibility because he is building a new PC and was unaware of the TB4 > TB1/TB2 compatibility issue. Nothing new here from the Intel side. Thunderbolt 4 continues to be backwards compatible with Thunderbolt 3 on Windows with no plans to change that as far as I know.
In my way of thinking, if Windows Thunderbolt 4 is fully compatible with Thunderbolt 3, then my Thunderbolt 3 > 2 adapter should work! It works just fine on both of my Windows Thunderbolt 3 systems. It doesn't work, so Thunderbolt 4 is not fully compatible with Thunderbolt 3! To me, it is just a money grab!
@@delvenhamric1200That’s NOT how Thunderbolt works and is incorrect logic to make that assumption. It’s not about physical adaptor ports. The protocol itself was rewritten for TB4 to form the USB4 standard and support Intel VT-d.
@@marklholloway So, when my device has worked flawlessly connected to a Thunderbolt 3 port, for years on Windows. Thunderbolt 4 claims to be fully compatible with Thunderbolt 3, then I am using incorrect logic, assuming that what works connected to a Thunderbolt 3 port now on Windows now should still work! yea...
@@delvenhamric1200If your Thunderbolt endpoint (device) is Thunderbolt 1 or 2 it will not work. If the endpoint is Thunderbolt 3 it will continue to work. A dongle converting TB3 > TB2 is not an endpoint.
@@marklholloway I thought Thunderbolt was a protocol and not a connection. With that logic, it should work! What the port sees is a Thunderbolt 3 device, the adaptor. Said adaptor looks like and talks like a Thunderbolt 3 device! The adaptor has the logic to translate whatever into a compatible Thunderbolt 3 compatible protocol! If the Thunderbolt 3 port only sees the Thunderbolt 3 protocol, why shouldn't it work! It works on the new M1/M2/M3 systems without any issue!
Let’s go back to tape.
Just bought an Otari MX5050 BQII
I feel like this is based off David's MixBusTV video. It's important to note Thunderbolt 4 on Windows has only ever been backwards compatible with Thunderbolt 3, but not Thunderbolt 1 and 2. This is NOT new information and has been true since the release of TB4 for Windows. David is building a new PC and just discovered this issue. If you look at Intel's site, they still document TB4 is backwards compatible with TB3. David's issue was backwards compatibility with TB4 > TB2 only, which has never been supported on Windows.
It must be as this is not new news. David only came across the issue when his own PC broke and he had to rebuild. The compatibility issue is not new news it as been known for a long time. TB4 spec is 4 years old. Heck TB5 is almost upon us.
@@infojunkie4989While not referenced in this video, there is something new. Some earlier revision of TB4 firmware from Intel worked with TB1/TB2 on Windows 10. After the firmware update, they are no longer functional. That being said, what you’ve said is correct that this has been planned for a while and I would further and say that the built-in Windows USB4 driver, used for both Intel and non-intel chipset that are TB compatible, also does not support TB1/2 even though the hardware could work with it. On the flip side, Apple has decided to keep supporting TB1 and TB2 with their TB4 implementation on Apple Silicon.
@@danielgaudet6114 thanks for the added info. As a Mac user i’m not always 100% on the wintel world.
Not true about TB4 backward compatibility and I've offered David help. My Thunderbolt 4 AMD Windows 11 machine goes back to Thunderbolt 2 and Even Firewire using Apple dongles. My UAD Apollo's are TB2 and work PERFECTLY.
@@d-zone There are unofficial ways around it depending on the motherboard manufacturer it but it’s not officially supported by Intel.
This has been an issue since last year, Barry. I had 3 weeks of back and forth with Asus last year explaining to them that my Quantum was still being sold at that time and that TB2 wasn't outdated yet so they issued me with a rollback for the firmware. Seemingly I was the only one they issued it to at that time because I had to share it with multiple people over Google Drive. If you update your BIOS now though, you have to also use the rollback afterward which is available as a seperate download from their site
I believe I understand the issue. See Apple no longer needs intel CPU's because they make their own (M-series). If I understand it correctly Apple is the one that invented and uses thunderbolt the most. I rarely see thunderbolt on a windows machine (they most likely use a daughter card to use it). So why would intel care if they do not support thunder bolt 3 and below. Apple no longer goes to them for intel CPU chips. Makes sense to me. The issue is Apple is a closed operating system. This is one reason I find it hard for me to go to Apple. People say oh Windows this and that. Apple has issues to. They both are hard to deal with.
On the business side of things, Thunderbolt is popular for docking stations for laptops and mini PCs, though they do come with a lot of issues. A lot of the X84/X64 business class laptops do come with Thunderbolt for that reason. On a much smaller scale, it’s also popular for those wanting to run a laptop or mini PC with an eGPUs over Thunderbolt.
NOW I understand why Antelope Audio switched to a unified driver.
There's a couple of issues at play. From what I understand, if you are running a TB3 interface, it should still work with TB4 and USB4 chipsets, but you would be out of luck with TB1 or TB2, even with a TB1/2 to TB3 adapter. On the Intel side, there has been a firmware update that has disabled all TB1/2 compatibility.
When using a TB4 chipset from Intel or one of the TB compatible/certified chips like those from ASMedia, they leverage the Windows USB4 driver which also does not support TB1/2. For example, the AMD-based systems with USB4 chipsets that support Thunderbolt will not work with TB1 and TB2 because the Windows USB4 driver does not support them.
Great video thanks Barry, was looking at some laptops with Thunderbolt 4 ports and may now re-think. I heard similar things with AMD boards around Intel not 'playing ball' with allowing a more widespread use of TB on AMD boards, I know AMD can offer TB, but I've heard there are still challenges with compatibility.
I doubt that it is Intel playing "hard ball" as opposed to board manufacturers not wanting to pay the license fee. If you look at the X670 boards with USB 4, you will notice that a lot of them are using the intel chip to power their USB4 ports and if you install the TB drivers, you will have full support. USB4 is nothing but Thunderbolt for the masses (which also falls into the "non-standard standards" that USB love.).
You either get USB or go the AVB switch (which is just an ethernet cable) route
My RME UFX+ interface is working fine for now. It's got a thunderbolt 2 port which I connect to my thunderbolt 4 M1 Mac Studio via a thunderbolt 2 cable with a Thunderbolt 3/4 adaptor. I run a optical MADI cable from the UFX+ to my other 16 channel interface which is a SPL Madison. As long as RME continue to update the Thunderbolt drivers, it should be right for years to come.
I am glad I went with Apogee . The Duet 3 and Desktop Symphony all usb c. I almost got a thunderbolt interface.
David at MixBus TV said the problem was with MSI motherboards and said in his video that ASUS had fixed the issue with their motherboards.
I'm a pc user who uses the x series of apollos all tb3 and very stable but I also use tons of dante. I wish UAD would go dante and I'd just abandon usb and thunderbolt completely. Kinda just super stable and fast
What about us MADI guys😁
Still running strong with my RME Fireface 800.
I can’t complain about my Clarett 8-Pre Thunderbolt. I bought it used. It came with all the necessary cables and the original packaging. It was well worth the $250.00 I paid for it.
That was a great deal for that gear. I have the USB version as my secondary via ADAT and I got it for $325.
Will stick with my Apogee Element series on TB2 because it has the best conversion, best headphone amp and great mixing variability. You can even print the FX Rack plugins.
And latency is better (around 7ms @44.1/128 buffer) than RME (tested the UCXII and UFX+).
Will always stay with Apple and Apogee 🙏🏻
Just completed my studio PC upgrade last weekend - had to budget £16.99 for a new firewire card to plug in my RME Fireface.
Thank God apple has great support for TB.
RME and Prism Audio use USB-C. Glad this is not an issue for me.
Prism atlas 8 pres no issues with usb.. just pay for a quality interface
Thunder what? I have 2 Babyface Pro’s and an Apogee Duet, but my main interface is still my EMU 1616m with PCIe daughter card in the computer .. like 15 years old now and still sounds as good as my others. Always having to upgrade everything and keep up with updates just kills my creativity. But best of luck to the Thunder guys.
Thanks for the heads up. I have an old Apollo and have been thinking it's time to start looking for something new. Glad to know this before I purchase anything. I've always used Macs but only time will tell what Apple will do if Intel drops Thunderbolt. I agree that with USB where it stands today Thunderbolt isn't as compelling as it used to be for the average home studio user.
Just go AMD
Is it possible to use a pcie tb card that's backwards compatible? As you can do with a firewire card on a new pc win 11.
I have always used USB interfaces.
Hey Barry, just so you’re aware from what I have heard, Apple is planning on dumping it as well as in not even supporting future versions and going strictly to USB. I have heard rumblings that it’s being taken out of their system completely.
I believe they are doing this because going forward, USB4 and Thunderbolt are technically redundant. USB4 was built off Thunderbolt 3 and is a subset of Thunderbolt 4. So, vendors can basically pick and choose what Thunderbolt4 features they want to utilize. So you will see some that are only 20Gbps and some that will only allow a certain amount of power for charging and powering devices. But when you peel back the layers, USB4 is Thunderbolt without all the "bells and whistles."
@@jahsoul357 yes that’s it - unfortunately there are always casualties in tech it seems. I mean look at SCSI (the precursor to FireWire), then FireWire (the precursor to Thunderbolt), now Thunderbolt - finally giving way to USB??? Looks like it… there is always the possibility that somebody creates a translation box or translation interface. That being some small computer that is fast enough to transmit data to your main computer from a thunderbolt device or whatever device and kind of act as a translator. The way the world turns you know, unfortunately. Feels like you can never get too comfortable with a technology, because as soon as it’s made, they’re getting ready to rip it out from under you and replace it with something better.
@@Cap10NRGMusic And the crazy thing is USB4 technically isn't better. It's just royalty free Thunderbolt. All advancements in USB4 will still come from Intel.
Maybe that's why UA have been having such a drive to move existing stock?
So for PC peeps, does it make sense to look at buying a Thunderbolt 2 PCIe card (while you can still get them) and just throw that in your next build? This worked for me when manufacturers moved away from Firewire.
Reaper and most VST plugins work just fine on Linux via a background program called Wine (which I never have to touch). I can run the full FabFilter suite and other high-end plugins that I originally bought for Windows on Linux without any issues. Linux Mint is extremely easy to use. It's pretty much the same as Windows or Mac. Most Linux editors I know now-days don't ever need to use (or even know) console commands. It's not like it was 10-15 years ago. And if you're worried about needing Windows, then just set up a dual-boot. Dump Windows and never have to worry about Microscam's bullshit ever again.
This reminds me of how bad I felt for all the people who bought the slate interface only for it to be almost worthless a couple of years later. Luckily my TB2 interface is about 10 years old, so I’ll be in the market for a new one before I ever need to worry about this, ive gotten my value from it several times over, and it has standalone mode meaning I could just get a converter and use it as preamps if I wanted to.
2 solutions. Mac and RME. Apple is more reliable in my experience so far anyway. Also, the AXE I/O from IKMultimedia is a solid beginner interface, haven't used a mic with it yet but there is 0 latency when tracking guitars direct through plugins and it's Made in Italy! Got my UFX III on layaway and This little Axe I/O surprised me. Totally replacing my Fractal. It's that good.
Question Barry; just to be clear USB C with AMD chip set is completely Unaffected by this brick? Thanks as always.
USB (A, B, or C) are not affected by Thunderbolt compatibility issues.
I’m sure there will be a Chinese t1,2,3 PCI or T4 card/adapter
Do you like the audio interface in the SSL Big Six in the background?
Waiting for him to review it also.
I just got mine today Big six,bought the little six a week earlier ❤
@@kevinlentz7604 I have not used the Big Six interface either. I've been using the The Big Six with the Antelope Discrete 4.
TB sounded cool when it was first announced as "Light Peak", but it turned out to be a half-baked idea that went through several revisions (read: downgrades) before its commercial launch. It was supposed to be optical, but that was scrapped. It was supposed to be much faster, but that was also scaled back. Now it is essentially Firewire but for the PCI Express era, with all the headaches and proprietary crap that made Firewire so freakin' expensive and troublesome. Only difference is, Firewire was very fast for its time. TB is only marginally faster than USB 3.2/4.
TB is needed for external GPU users because that requires PCIe, but audio interfaces - even really fat ones - really don't need anything more than plain old USB. I wish hardware manufacturers would acknowledge this instead of riding the Intel hype train.
Glad I went to RME (usb) and a win computer
Did they do a software/firmware change or something?!
Barry do the Big 6 SSL JUST GOT MINE,and The 6 ❤
I’m somehow still using my 828 ii firewire 🤷🏼♂️
Nice. I bought a pcie fw card for my new and fast pc win11pro. Strangely my Motu Traveler gen1 runs better on this setup than any previously combination. It runs without prob at 96kHz and 128 buffer and fairly large projects.
SO glad firewire sttill workks in Windows 11 and has low latency. MAUDIO 2626 with Actual line ins still working. Phew. Ride or Die!
Hi Barry. Can you please add links to the documentation you are reacting to from Intel ? kind regards Nils
As my momma always told me, don't put all your aggs in one basket. This is another argument for a la carte conversion. I have always invested the most in the part that matters the most. The converters. How they interface with the computer is irrelevant as long as they use some industry standard digital output. Aes, madi, dante, or even adat, you can always find an interface that can link to them.
Whether motherboard companies allow a downgrading option or Apple makes a new series of thunderbolt adaptors to adapt to TB4 the sky isn't falling nearly that faat. Thunderbolt really only benefits most interfaces at 96k or above when it comes to track count. In my case, I have a digital only motu interface with thunderbolt, AES, AVB, and Madi and no analog so I have some options. Those include getting a newer motu interface with AVB and TB4, or another an interface from another company with MADI and TB4. I currently have a Burl mothership with MADI for all of my AD conversion and a motu 24ai for my DA conversion. Worst case scenario is having to buy a new device for digital throughput. If I can find a clearance deal on my main interface I'll probably buy a second one since it has loads of digital connectivity options besides thunderbolt and is controlled via a network protocol.
Just build an AMD Windows machine with TB4......My 5950 (16 cores/128gb Ram/8TB NVME SSD) with ASUS ProArt Mobo cost 25% of the same spec MAC and outperforms an MAC Ultra/Pro in Cinebench. It's also fully upgradable. I have FULL TB4 compatibility going back to FireWire (using Apple Dongles) and my UAD and Sonnet PCIE housing (for my UAD PCIE cards) work perfectly. I even have a Prism ADA 8-XR with firewire card connected via TB4. Ignore Intel with their eCores. Go AMD and have just Performance Cores......And fully working Thunderbolt with FULL backwards compatibility, .
Wow Barry, I have Universal Audio Apollo x6 16x22 Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface with UAD DSP, macbook pro m1 macOS Monterey ver 12.6.1 cubase 13 pro is this going to affect me? Thanks Barry.
Hahaa thank you 🙏
Thunderbolt was Created by Apple and Intel and the reason for the separation of protocols is because of compliance with future specs in Intel chipsets! Apple is not affected anymore because they no longer rely on intel cpu's! When Apple does support thunderbolt 4 they Co own the rights and will build it into thier chipsets, but because of their small closed family of silicon it will be easy to implement! Intel had to do this to insure safety overall for everyone on thier chips, they drew a line in the sand! It sucks that it effects so many, but intels runs on soo many platforms and devices just like windows, its the only way to insure saftey moving forward!
If you wanna future proof - get one (or two for redundancy) TB3 addin PCIe cards; stay away from boards with onboard TB chipsets. Even if future mainboards won‘t have the headers for them, the drivers will still work, just without the hotpluging. If you boot the computer up with the old interface already running, you‘re good to go.
PCiE TB cards aren't readily available (or 100% compatible with all hardware). Just go AMD MOBO with TB4.
That‘s what I‘m trying to say - they ARE compatible with ANY mainboard, if you‘re willing to sacrifice hotpluging (that, and USB channels, is what the TB header on mainboards is for).
If you‘re only pluging in a TB audio interface before you boot up, chances are it‘s gonna work even with xx-th gen Intel in 5 years. This way, all you do is use the PCIe lanes via USB-C cable.
I haw a presonus 2626 Yes I am pissed. This reminds me of the BS Apple keeps doing like an example ISCSI used it for a couple of years then kilted it. I know USB 4 is coming and most likely
USB 5 will be as fast as Thunderbolt. Now I was hesitant to get the Thunderbolt in the first place but I am glad I did since the speed is fast as lighting. Now for Intel to do this is why we need a lawyer with a class action law suit. I mean we can't just keep buying stuff and trashing it it's not good for our environment or our pocketbooks.
The problem is now that USB4 is the same as TB4 now? Correct me if you will
Why is this a problem?
**Laughs in 2013 Mac Pro** 😰
Asus motherboards has a work around.
I read this as TB4 will support TB3 but not TB1 and TB2, TB3 remains backwards compatible to all, but I could be wrong, ultimately it seems like another corporate cash grab impacting its customers
Not winning the Powerball 3 games in a row???
😂😂😂😂😂😂
ThunderBolt has always been overkill for audio
You’ll never convince a lot of people but I agree.
@@BarryJohnsI definitely won't be able to convince audio manufacturers. It's mostly a marketing tactic. Thunderbolt can be useful for data/video applications.
Honestly, it's all about usage and what works for some may not work for others. I only care about the lowest latency possible and truth be told, very few interfaces today can touch the latency that I can get with my Motu PCIe-424, including RME USB interfaces.
@@brandontcrooms In terms of audio marketing tactics, if we are being honest, "USB is good enough" is the greatest...lol. In terms of "detachable" mediums, firewire was WAY better than USB. USB just allowed manufacturers a "no cost" solution that was never passed down to consumers.
yes, I never understood why UAD refused to make the USB Apollo MAC compatible. The only devices compatible for MAC and WIn was the Thunderbolt model so it did limit the choice of PC components until AMD started to support TB.
Sounds like I should avoid buying any gear that uses a thunderbolt interface if I don't want end of life within the next 10 years
Macs should be fine because the Thunderbolt protocol for computers was invented by Intel in collaboration with Apple.
Love Rme
Why when you said some of us don't know what we're doing you seemed to be looking at me?
He's heard the rumours. We all have. 👀
I am confused? I thought Thunderbolt was a Apple product. What is he talking about
You can get a thunderbolt 4 pcie card.
Only if the motherboard accepts it. Just because the computer has available pcie slots doesn’t mean it will support thunderbolt.
@@BarryJohns You're absolutely right in this context. Wasn't thinking of the fact that if you're running TB 2 or 3 most likely your board won't support 4 at all given the fact of the PCs age at that point.
I read that Gigabyte was the most experienced with TB considering that they were contracted out to for all the TB stuff for Intel for Mac until the new M chips came out.
Good stuff Barry. Been glued to your channel for a while.
Man you had to hit me with this right now lol...I literally have an Apollo x8 in my cart with an ASUS TB card sitting. However, I shouldn't have an issue with my PC with my MSI board.🤔 Hopefully. lol
As others have said, this is a security vulnerability (Thunderspy) that was identified in 2020. It's not new, so I don't know what you mean by 'Intel are burying their heads in the sand.' The threat exists and allows a hacker with access to your computer to clone your drive. Intel released Thunderbolt 4 in 2020, which dramatically improved security in the protocol (particularly in regards to DMA).
Cyberattacks and data breaches are on the rise and technology companies are battening down the hatches (as they should). It seems what you are suggesting is that Intel should ignore security threats in order to benefit a handful of people still using older TB2 devices. Calling it a cash grab is patently ridiculous.
No he would have to break into your home and access the computer there. Not likely. It can’t be done remotely.
@@BarryJohns As I said, 'with access to your computer.' I'm well aware of how the exploit works (I've worked in IT). The computers with important data on them are not in people's homes. All our personal data and credit card info (for example) are held on computers that many people have physical access to. By your rationale, we don't need login/passwords for our computers either. What about the large number of musicians who use laptops? Do you think the majority of computer users are bedroom musicians who never leave the house?
Having a rant on UA-cam is great, but it's unhelpful when you don't consider the implications of what you're saying (especially when attacking a company). It sounds like you were annoyed by the situation (or just knew it would make a good video) and misinterpreted your research to support your position (confirmation bias). Spreading misinformation ultimately undermines your credibility, but I guess you get the clicks, right?
They dont give a shit about any of us audio guys
Woohooo, intel bricks one interface....They got a long long long long long way to go to catch up to apple. Pretty sure nobody was drinking the Thunderbolt koolaid after maybe 2011 anyhow. Remember the marketing promise of "PCI-e on a wire"? This whole subject was actually covered pretty deeply about three years ago on the DAWBench podcast
You are talking a completely different subject.
Most of us PC Weenies are not into Thunderbolt so I doubt that this will be as big of a problem for us and Apple is under dictatorship so the flexibility will not exist for the Mac fans.
Never fails always a judgemental comment. Be happy with what you use and let everyone else do the same. By the way, tons of PC users use Thunderbolt every day. Practically every one that does video production. Talk to all the universal audio windows users who never had a stable system windows via Thunderbolt. What you meant to say is I don’t I use Thunderbolt so no issue for me, and I’m smarter than you I bought a PC. Great job!
@@BarryJohns oh - I did not mean it that way. I really enjoy your posts.
Thunderbolt is and always has been a design flaw masquerading as a feature, even more so on PC since they still make actual towers with PCIe slots without forcing you into HEDT. I say good riddance. I just hope that either Microsoft gets their **** together or Apple starts making real desktops again before it's time for me to buy another computer. Frankly, I don't actually care which.
2x⏩
Sold mine and moved on to USB-C
Crazy thing is, in the next few years, you will hear people singing the praises of USB4 (I'm ready for RME to tell us the benefits..lol), when for all intents and purposes, USB4 is a "loose" Thunderbolt 4.
😂 The writing has been on the wall for the demise of Thunderbolt for years, Barry! I also skipped Firewire. Some stuff is too obvious for outrage. Come back down, friend. We're all OK.
Easy By Apple...
there is always something WAVES just pulled some more bull crap they just updated there studiorack to studioverse and now the new studioverse dose not support DSP offload so people like me that paid $3000 for there ios and other audio interface and servers to off load plugin CPU for your DAW basically it is just a audio interface now that you can buy from other manufactures for $600 or $700 they just pull the rug out every chance they get and they say they are a pro audio company bull
Yea, I looked for years to find a laptop with a Thunderbolt 3 port, to use my Apollo remotely! I ended up buying a refurbished 10 year old Laptop to get it to work! The other part of this story is Microsoft! If your system is old enough to run Thunderbolt 3, it is too old to run Windows 11! So, next year when Microsoft drops support for Windows 10 and forces everybody to buy a new computer, everybody should move to Apple! That should destroy both Intel and Microsoft, because of their own Stupidity! I don't particularly like Apple, but screw Intel and Microsoft! 🤑
Intel NUC's work perfectly with UAD TB2 devices, all you need is the Apple TB3->TB2 Dongle. Otherwise, Framework Laptops have the option (up to 4) and user upgradable (new CPU/RAM even egpu's)
This doesn't ring true. I run Windows 11. I run TB3. Fully compatible with my Apollo X6.
@@chaddonal4331 I believe that the newer X series Apollo's were TB3! Unfortunately I have the Apollo Twin and that is TB2 with a TB3 > TB2 dongle! TB4 for some reason doesn't like this TB3 > TB2 dongle!
💯🫡💯🫡💯🫡💯🫡💯💯💯💯
Then don’t buy Intel.
😐
If you’re using a PC for audio this is what you get. lol.
bad take.
@@nilespeshay1734 it’s true. It’s a bunch of headaches in a box. That’s why most pro studios have always used Macs. I’ve never been in a pro studio running Windows.
Not winning the Powerball 3 games in a row???
😂😂😂😂😂😂