Thanks for bringing this one to my attention Mike, that EP90 at low temps is scary. I remember when I was a little boy in the fifties how wagon drivers on Shap lit fires under their vehicles to de-wax the diesel, in those days their speed limit was 20mph lifted to 30 in 1957.
Can't remember the year - early 1990s - I was staying at a friend's cabin near Mt Tremblant and the temps went down to -50C overnight. The (real) mercury in the thermometer was completely down in the ball. We all had block heaters (I mean, we're Canadians) but no car would start except mine - a sporty Mitsubishi/Chrysler AWD (Diamond Star). I always ran Mobil 1 5W/30. I went for a drive and had to tug a few people out where they had driven off the road into the ditch as the plough operators had ploughed the snow level across the ditches and you couldn't see where they were. I also drove that car to Death Valley one year - not too many get driven at -50C and +50C
Thanks for the video. We can all google the techie stuff but I come here for the practical experience and advice. Theory is all well and good but an explanation of what it actually does to the various engines and gearboxes is priceless.👍
A picture paints a thousand words. Good video Mike. There are guys all over the Northern Hemisphere spending their Sunday afternoon draining their 4X4's of EP90 gear oil and replacing it with something more suitable for winter. That was so educational, I have seen all the videos, normally American with all the facts and figures. No need, just put a Yorkshireman in -20c with a few cups of oil. We learned everything we needed to know. Even more reason to fit a block heater, even in the UK. We may only get the odd week of really cold but that is enough to do damage. Thanks for the videos, I am of sick with a bad back so binge watching UA-cam. Keep going with the Channel, you have something.
@@BritannicaRestorations just picked up on this, whilst I don't consider my self old and am quite used to 'gettin down wid d kids' (teacher by day) It wasn't as relaxing as l watching you work :). Flicked through most of the episodes I can't believe they guy has got as far as he has!
I remember growing up in the UK seeing the truck drivers light fires under their fuel tanks to get the diesel usable. Talking about viscosity. My owners manual for my 94 Range Rover has a great chart in it on what viscosity is usable at what temps. (20 y/o car and it still had the original LR documentation!) This is for the V8, but they only recommended 15-40 down to about -10 c / +14 f. and 10 /40 down to about -20c / -4 f. Anything below that and it would be a 5w multigrade
Thanks for a great story on oil Mike 👍 just catching up on some of your old vlogs! I think your so right that most of us have little or no understanding of how our oils work on our defenders🤔 all the best
Multigrade oils are essential for the longevity of modern engines as the oil needs to be capable of giving the best possible protection, when both hot and cold. Most modern oils are multigrades and you identify these as they will have an oil grade on the label along the lines of 10w-40. In short, if you see an expression such as 10W-40, the oil is a multigrade which simply means that the oil falls into two viscosity grades, in this case 10W and 40. This is made possible by the inclusion of a polymer, a component which slows down the rate of thinning as the oil warms up and slows down the rate of thickening as the oil cools down. Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer. For a 10w-40 to attain the specification target a 10W (W = Winter please note!) the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity at low temperature. The actual viscosity and the temperature vary with the viscosity grade but in all cases the lower the number, the thinner the oil. For example a 5W oil is thinner than a 10W oil at temperatures encountered in UK winter conditions. This is important because a thinner oil will circulate faster on cold start, affording better engine protection and therefore lower long term wear! For a 10w-40 to attain the other specification target a "40" oil must fall within certain limits at 100 oC. In this case the temperature target does not vary with the viscosity grade, if there is no "W" the measuring temperature is always 100oC. Again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a "30" oil is thinner than a "40" oil at 100 °C, which is typical of maximum bulk oil temperatures in an operating engine
Cheers Mike. Will check my lad's 300TDI double cab in the morning and my Puma (when I get it back after rebuild)! A proper cold snap here in the Midlands, UK.
Good choice of cups - we have Tim Horton's in Dubai, and their coffee tastes a lot like ATF... Is there any chance you could do a cold comparison of 75w vs EP90, since LR changed the transmission spec to 75W on late Defenders?
Thank you Mike for this very interesting video. T cases and differentials are having a hard time in winter with this ep90... I have always been an advocate to let your engine warm up but especially to drive away slowly and warm up all the oils and greases in the axles and bearings.
Interesting to see that. I think the numbers don't refer to temperature but to the seconds taken for a given amount to flow a given distance when engine is cold and engine is at running temperature. 5 winter is thin when engine is cold and 30 or 40 is thick when warmed up. I'm no expert. I use 5w40 in the 200tdi in winter and 15w40 in summer. Julian.
By the way, since watching your oil viscosity video I am far more liberal with the block heater and far more careful for the first kms as I know the diffs are frozzen.,..
You reminded me of Rocky today (Bullwinkles mate) 😁 Love these cold weather vids you are doing. You mentioned briefly about cars that you had brought from the U.K. and what they had in the fuel tank. Could you do a video about navigating that procedure of importing from U.K.(or Spain if you have any info) Mick
I could do a video on importing, but I have been out of the loop for about 5 years now as there are so many Defenders in Canada, they have pushed prices down, however there is a potential market for other vehicles, so I may be tempted to have another go - BUT, it is not as easy or cost effective as you may think Mike
Hey mike its interesting over here in Australia pretty much all of the brand new diesels out here recommend from factory 5w30 full synthetic engine oil, which always seems wrong considering the temperatures they are operating in. Its strange that they would use and recommend that grade of oil for over here considering in summer its regularly closer to 35 -40 degrees Celsius. It is also very common for intake manifolds to get clogged up from oil vapor mixing with condensation inside the engine creating a tar like stuff which sticks and blocks up intake manifolds, egr systems. Im not sure if thats common where you live? Lots of people fit after market fume catch cans to there engines to resolve this problem, still the car dealers dont like them being fitted for warranty reasons. But yet to keep them happy you have to use oils like 5w30 which doesnt help the problem
It is interesting - I drove my old 200Tdi powered D1 with 0w30 all summer here and it got to +34c and the oil light never flickered once - and I did a lot of highway driving with that beast But as Nicolaus says it could be because of the finer tolerances Oil technology has come on in leaps and bounds over the last 20 years I have heard of the catch can trick before, but I do not see many modern diesels here Mike
hi mike, I think it would be better to put each oil on the board with the board flat and then tilt the board up so they all run at the same time. just a thought if you were to do it again.
The simplest tests a lab uses are pretty simple, measuring the time it takes for a volume of fluid to to get though a certain sized hole at a set temperature. So not much different from your experiment.
I heard since Timmy's was taken over by the US that they changed suppliers and now McD'd has the Timmy's blend - just a rumour I can only say a lot of people I know prefer McD's - but I am a tea drinker so cannot comment - all tea here is shite for the chains
So now you have me thinking should I add 15/40 into the diffs, or MTF, given here its around -8 to -16 and most of my runs are forest tracks for 30kms before stop. What do you thin? I didn’t like the look of the EP 90....
EP = extreme pressure. W hen you have bevelled gears like in diffs, there is a lot of shear going on and the oil works hard and gets hot - that's why EP oils have a lot of sulphur in them Rather than using engine oil, why not try find an EP oil that is maybe 75/80 and full synthetic? I have regular gear oil in my diffs and not a problem
@@BritannicaRestorations I will not mess about with it then. At the moment I have the recommended EP Oil in the diffs. But after seeing your video of the effect of cold on EP I will sure take it easy until the car has warmed up. Thanks Mike.
How long does the friction / sheering force take in a gear box or diff to heat the lube up to 'proper' (safe) temperature? With an engine, you've got combustion to generate heat rather rapidly, but I'm thinking about those bearings and the splines on the axles out in the deep freeze...
Mike, any advice on Defender door handels? We have -26 here this morning (Sweden) the metal latch in the door handle has stuck in the locked position so the door will not close, just bounces off the pin. I have sprayed lock antifreeze and dry teflon lub all over, and have the heater on full blast, no joy. I think I know you are going to say I need to take door panel off, which is not much fun at this temp.
@@BritannicaRestorations I noticed a strange thing today, below -17 the front right wheel arch bends in an inch or so, only does it below -17. You can also tell its below -17 as the hairs in your nose frezze when you breath. But give me cold any day. Worked in Western Sahara for 2 years, bugger that for a game of soliders....
@@BritannicaRestorations Mike one more ask. If you have time can you do a video on oil leak tracking, I got my 90 in Oct last year and mosty of my time has been spent chasing my tail looking for oil leaks....
mike i love the biggles hat, can i have your address i have some things i want to send you, i am sure your you will get good use out of. Gotta keep you right man.
Thanks for bringing this one to my attention Mike, that EP90 at low temps is scary. I remember when I was a little boy in the fifties how wagon drivers on Shap lit fires under their vehicles to de-wax the diesel, in those days their speed limit was 20mph lifted to 30 in 1957.
No problem!
Can't remember the year - early 1990s - I was staying at a friend's cabin near Mt Tremblant and the temps went down to -50C overnight. The (real) mercury in the thermometer was completely down in the ball. We all had block heaters (I mean, we're Canadians) but no car would start except mine - a sporty Mitsubishi/Chrysler AWD (Diamond Star). I always ran Mobil 1 5W/30. I went for a drive and had to tug a few people out where they had driven off the road into the ditch as the plough operators had ploughed the snow level across the ditches and you couldn't see where they were.
I also drove that car to Death Valley one year - not too many get driven at -50C and +50C
Thanks for the video. We can all google the techie stuff but I come here for the practical experience and advice. Theory is all well and good but an explanation of what it actually does to the various engines and gearboxes is priceless.👍
That is the feature of this channel - to show real repairs and problems. AND how we can fix them correctly and as cheaply as possible!
A picture paints a thousand words.
Good video Mike.
There are guys all over the Northern Hemisphere spending their Sunday afternoon draining their 4X4's of EP90 gear oil and replacing it with something more suitable for winter.
That was so educational, I have seen all the videos, normally American with all the facts and figures. No need, just put a Yorkshireman in -20c with a few cups of oil. We learned everything we needed to know.
Even more reason to fit a block heater, even in the UK. We may only get the odd week of really cold but that is enough to do damage.
Thanks for the videos, I am of sick with a bad back so binge watching UA-cam.
Keep going with the Channel, you have something.
Here is something to see - let me know your thoughts..
ua-cam.com/video/uRMoWiVCJno/v-deo.html
@@BritannicaRestorations just picked up on this, whilst I don't consider my self old and am quite used to 'gettin down wid d kids' (teacher by day) It wasn't as relaxing as l watching you work :). Flicked through most of the episodes I can't believe they guy has got as far as he has!
I remember growing up in the UK seeing the truck drivers light fires under their fuel tanks to get the diesel usable. Talking about viscosity. My owners manual for my 94 Range Rover has a great chart in it on what viscosity is usable at what temps. (20 y/o car and it still had the original LR documentation!) This is for the V8, but they only recommended 15-40 down to about -10 c / +14 f. and 10 /40 down to about -20c / -4 f. Anything below that and it would be a 5w multigrade
Thanks for a great story on oil Mike 👍 just catching up on some of your old vlogs! I think your so right that most of us have little or no understanding of how our oils work on our defenders🤔 all the best
Glad you enjoyed it!
Creadit to you Mike for doing this vid out side as cold can effect the brain in extreme cold, good on ya.
The things I do...
In Germany during winter time you can buy something called "Winterdiesel" with a high octane level, but not every petrol station sells it.
They have it in Quebec but they put the prices up high!
Multigrade oils are essential for the longevity of modern engines as the oil needs to be capable of giving the best possible protection, when both hot and cold. Most modern oils are multigrades and you identify these as they will have an oil grade on the label along the lines of 10w-40.
In short, if you see an expression such as 10W-40, the oil is a multigrade which simply means that the oil falls into two viscosity grades, in this case 10W and 40.
This is made possible by the inclusion of a polymer, a component which slows down the rate of thinning as the oil warms up and slows down the rate of thickening as the oil cools down.
Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.
For a 10w-40 to attain the specification target a 10W (W = Winter please note!) the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity at low temperature. The actual viscosity and the temperature vary with the viscosity grade but in all cases the lower the number, the thinner the oil. For example a 5W oil is thinner than a 10W oil at temperatures encountered in UK winter conditions.
This is important because a thinner oil will circulate faster on cold start, affording better engine protection and therefore lower long term wear!
For a 10w-40 to attain the other specification target a "40" oil must fall within certain limits at 100 oC. In this case the temperature target does not vary with the viscosity grade, if there is no "W" the measuring temperature is always 100oC.
Again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a "30" oil is thinner than a "40" oil at 100 °C, which is typical of maximum bulk oil temperatures in an operating engine
Cheers Mike. Will check my lad's 300TDI double cab in the morning and my Puma (when I get it back after rebuild)! A proper cold snap here in the Midlands, UK.
we had 3 weeks of -20 -30c last year - if it happens again I will test again
A great experiment - totally understandable
Thanks!
I remember this video 👍 very good. Just imagine the damage ep 90 will do. Nasty.
Good choice of cups - we have Tim Horton's in Dubai, and their coffee tastes a lot like ATF...
Is there any chance you could do a cold comparison of 75w vs EP90, since LR changed the transmission spec to 75W on late Defenders?
Thank you Mike for this very interesting video. T cases and differentials are having a hard time in winter with this ep90...
I have always been an advocate to let your engine warm up but especially to drive away slowly and warm up all the oils and greases in the axles and bearings.
May be an idea to put 15w40 in the transfer for winter?
@@BritannicaRestorations 75W90 Gear oil would be a good start...
75w is still going to be thick - if this snow storm is not coming I may pop to CT and see what they have
Interesting to see that. I think the numbers don't refer to temperature but to the seconds taken for a given amount to flow a given distance when engine is cold and engine is at running temperature. 5 winter is thin when engine is cold and 30 or 40 is thick when warmed up. I'm no expert. I use 5w40 in the 200tdi in winter and 15w40 in summer. Julian.
You could do with an old fashioned paint sprayers viscosity cup for this! Great video as usual.
Good idea - not seen them for years, but we would be into summer before the EP 90 would start to drip and the results would be inconclusive!
Lol!
Mike
By the way, since watching your oil viscosity video I am far more liberal with the block heater and far more careful for the first kms as I know the diffs are frozzen.,..
You reminded me of Rocky today (Bullwinkles mate) 😁 Love these cold weather vids you are doing.
You mentioned briefly about cars that you had brought from the U.K. and what they had in the fuel tank. Could you do a video about navigating that procedure of importing from U.K.(or Spain if you have any info)
Mick
I could do a video on importing, but I have been out of the loop for about 5 years now as there are so many Defenders in Canada, they have pushed prices down, however there is a potential market for other vehicles, so I may be tempted to have another go - BUT, it is not as easy or cost effective as you may think
Mike
LOL Mike the hat cracked me up. Do you know what they call them in Norway? Cant say here but its got to do with a bears private parts : )
That's my WWII pilots helmet copy!
@@BritannicaRestorations Reminds me of Chubby Brown, wonder if he is still ticking...
He is from my neck of the woods but I have not heard of anything for a long time
Hey mike its interesting over here in Australia pretty much all of the brand new diesels out here recommend from factory 5w30 full synthetic engine oil, which always seems wrong considering the temperatures they are operating in. Its strange that they would use and recommend that grade of oil for over here considering in summer its regularly closer to 35 -40 degrees Celsius. It is also very common for intake manifolds to get clogged up from oil vapor mixing with condensation inside the engine creating a tar like stuff which sticks and blocks up intake manifolds, egr systems. Im not sure if thats common where you live? Lots of people fit after market fume catch cans to there engines to resolve this problem, still the car dealers dont like them being fitted for warranty reasons. But yet to keep them happy you have to use oils like 5w30 which doesnt help the problem
It is interesting - I drove my old 200Tdi powered D1 with 0w30 all summer here and it got to +34c and the oil light never flickered once - and I did a lot of highway driving with that beast
But as Nicolaus says it could be because of the finer tolerances
Oil technology has come on in leaps and bounds over the last 20 years
I have heard of the catch can trick before, but I do not see many modern diesels here
Mike
hi mike, I think it would be better to put each oil on the board with the board flat and then tilt the board up so they all run at the same time. just a thought if you were to do it again.
good idea
And you could take bets on them 😂
The simplest tests a lab uses are pretty simple, measuring the time it takes for a volume of fluid to to get though a certain sized hole at a set temperature. So not much different from your experiment.
Except they are in a warm lab...
Lol!
Mike
@@BritannicaRestorations yes, a standard temperature, usually 20C!!
Fascinating... now, which brand coffee has better winter viscosity -- Tim Horton's or Mickey D?
I heard since Timmy's was taken over by the US that they changed suppliers and now McD'd has the Timmy's blend - just a rumour
I can only say a lot of people I know prefer McD's - but I am a tea drinker so cannot comment - all tea here is shite for the chains
Whale Oil Beef Hooked
(just don't shout it out loud) ;-)
I had to read it twice - nice one!
Mike
So now you have me thinking should I add 15/40 into the diffs, or MTF, given here its around -8 to -16 and most of my runs are forest tracks for 30kms before stop. What do you thin? I didn’t like the look of the EP 90....
EP = extreme pressure. W hen you have bevelled gears like in diffs, there is a lot of shear going on and the oil works hard and gets hot - that's why EP oils have a lot of sulphur in them
Rather than using engine oil, why not try find an EP oil that is maybe 75/80 and full synthetic?
I have regular gear oil in my diffs and not a problem
@@BritannicaRestorations I will not mess about with it then. At the moment I have the recommended EP Oil in the diffs. But after seeing your video of the effect of cold on EP I will sure take it easy until the car has warmed up. Thanks Mike.
What gearbox oil wil you recommend for the r380 in south Africa?
How long does the friction / sheering force take in a gear box or diff to heat the lube up to 'proper' (safe) temperature? With an engine, you've got combustion to generate heat rather rapidly, but I'm thinking about those bearings and the splines on the axles out in the deep freeze...
Tell you what - IF the snow storm does not come, then I will fire up the 110 and take if for a drive - thermal imaging camera pre and post 10 KM
Mike, any advice on Defender door handels? We have -26 here this morning (Sweden) the metal latch in the door handle has stuck in the locked position so the door will not close, just bounces off the pin. I have sprayed lock antifreeze and dry teflon lub all over, and have the heater on full blast, no joy. I think I know you are going to say I need to take door panel off, which is not much fun at this temp.
Check this out
ua-cam.com/video/jihka4oemMQ/v-deo.html
Thanks Mike, really useful. Amazing the difference -15 to -26 makes.
Some people really need to experience life in the cold!
@@BritannicaRestorations I noticed a strange thing today, below -17 the front right wheel arch bends in an inch or so, only does it below -17. You can also tell its below -17 as the hairs in your nose frezze when you breath. But give me cold any day. Worked in Western Sahara for 2 years, bugger that for a game of soliders....
@@BritannicaRestorations Mike one more ask. If you have time can you do a video on oil leak tracking, I got my 90 in Oct last year and mosty of my time has been spent chasing my tail looking for oil leaks....
mike i love the biggles hat, can i have your address i have some things i want to send you, i am sure your you will get good use out of. Gotta keep you right man.
I lost my beanie hat!
Found it now - think the cat was playing with it!
9 Ch Rawson
Sherbrooke
Quebec Canada
J1M2A3
Mike