No problem, appreciate your videos, your math, and that you're not being another content creator pointing at player numbers and complaining even though player number declines are completely normal in games like tfd
It might work the way you thought but increasing your firearm atk by a minimal amount when you could use a different mod in that slot to do much more is questionable.
Good and bad are always circumstancial in this game. For instance, if you are playing Gley in an environment where she can easily replenish her health, enemies aren't all that powerful and so on, it's good. It's a little extra dmg you can safely add to your build. However, if you are fighting a high dmg dealer where sources of HP are scarce, then risking half of your HP for such a small increase in dmg is plain stupid. A good example is Hailey. I have an extreme dmg build to solo colossi up to the swamp walker (included). You don't need to care about HP, DEF, Cooldown ir duration because you won't need any of that. You'll kill the monster before it has time to realize you're there. However, if you will face any colossi after the SW, that fantastic build becomes a very asinine one. When people realize this, they don't do the kind of mistakes that hurt them, hurt the party and become much happier. Hailey has a build perfect for invasions, for instance. The time you lose getting to the final fight will be compensated by how fast you'll delete the commander. Same for boss reactors, dungeons, etc.
Glad someone finally pointed this out. I tested a while ago and the math didn't really check out like I was expecting. Didn't really test in this much detail, but I came to the same conclusion that it just wasn't worth it, at least for my build. Passionate sponsor probably works the same way, but is still worth the mod slot on Yujin/Luna/Ajax/Enzo as long as you can keep it up, since 75% is a much higher percentage.
It WAS worth it when Gley could heal from structures. Since that change, I put it in the closet and buffed my Gley instead.. When your arse is pointing to the moon, your DPS is 0.
Same reason I don't stress over shot focus, tested it and got like a 7% damage increase. Sure it's good, but I don't stress if it doesn't fit into a build
This is very interesting. Never did the math myself (because I'm just not good at it and too lazy to do so lol) but this is making sense because when testing on Devourer with both Walk a tight rope and Annihilation, the kill time was not dramatically different than not running those. It's about a 1 to 1.5 second difference. Maybe 2 seconds if trying hard. But this is good info because there are a lot of other survivability/utility mods I would have rather run.
so the simple way is that Walk a tight rope is only adding the 30% of the base firearm ATK value of the gun which is a static value and equates to very little once everything else is added on top of it
And THIS is why the blue elemental mods for weapons are so competitive. They(edit: the blue elemental mods) ARE multiplicative to total Firearm attack. EDIT: OK, so seems the wording here was confusing people. I kept it simple on purpose because math/explaining with text is hard/unapproachable. So I'll break down my statement as best I can. Blue elemental mods read "Add ELEMENT ATK equal to X% of Firearm ATK"(30% at max). Firearm ATK mods read "Firearm ATK +X%". Purple elemental mods (priority/gunbarrel) read "Element ATK +X%". Blue elemental mods are coded to include all "Firearm ATK +X%" prior to calculating its own 30%(why? ask the devs). So a general rounds weapon with 100k base atk: Rifling Reinforcement +32% (32k), Action Reaction +61% (61k), Electric enhancement +30% (57,900). The more Firearm ATK+% you have, the more effective damage you get out of the blue elemental mods. Why blue? "Element ATK +X%" (the purple mods) work exactly like "Firearm ATK +X%" mods. So a general rounds weapon with 100k base atk: Poison Priority +50% Toxic attack(0k). That's right, if you don't have an element on your weapons, "Element ATK +X%" (the purple mods) do nothing because there is no base element to multiply off. Blue elemental mods "Add ELEMENT ATK equal to X% of Firearm ATK" effectively adds a 'base elemental ATK' to the weapon(same with weapon elemental rolls) that the purple mods multiply off of. Hopefully that clears up any misunderstandings. Side note: Elemental damage can crit but CANNOT weakpoint scale(why? ask the devs). As the status effects are based off the elemental damage received they also are unaffected by weakpoint scaling. This is why blue elemental mods are COMPETITIVE, not BETTER. If a weapon's weakpoint scaling is 2.5 then that 32k rifling reinforcement adds is an effective 80k while the element mod is still at 57,900.
No, they aren't... All increases are calculated the same way regardless of mod rarity. Everything is added into its own multiplier, and then those multipliers are multiplied by each other after. That's how it works for everything in the game.
@@Harmonic14 Incorrect. Most Multipliers are additive to the Multiplier itself. Hence why when you look at the Firearm ATK Multiplier, it continues to increase as you equip different Mods. "Walk A Tight Rope" is it's own Multiplier whose total is additive to the Main Total. So instead of increasing the Firearm ATK Multiplier by 30% like almost every other source, "Walk A Tight Rope" adds a flat Firearm ATK worth 30% of the Firearm's Base ATK to your Firearm's ATK after all other Multipliers are calculated. So @NovalleFox is correct in that "Walk A Tightrope" is an Additive Firearm ATK Bonus whereas, pretty much, everything else is a Multiplicative Firearm ATK Bonus.
@@ForeverDegenerate You and NovellaeFox are both incorrect, Walk a Tightrope and Rifling Reinforcement are the same kind of bonus. They are both multiplicative with firearm attack, and they are both additive with eachother, the same way both stack with Action and Reaction. The formula for WaT and A&R should be something like ' [firearm atk] * (1 + [WaT] + [A&R])', or 'ATK * (1+ 0.3 + 0.6)' which is equal to ATK * 1.9. Which is pretty well what we see in the test, with 13k base, 22k with A&R (base * 1.6) and then 26k with A&R and WaT (base * 1.9, equivalent to base * (1 +0.3 + 0.6)). Ryechew just explained it in a weird way. Yeah, you could explain it as attack plus RR and A&R times attack and THEN add Walk a Tightrope times attack afterwards, back you could equally do the walk a tightrope first and then add RR and A&R after too.
I've got a tank/gun Ult Lepic that doesn't even use his 4. And based on this video I'm taking Walk a Tightrope off. I don't like the play style anyway.
in bunny's case, this module shares the same mechanic with Multitalented, same DPS output. with Max/Max possible HP, Technical Manual fall behind with 15% DPS less. Another question tho, under min/max condition, singular power + singular power mod =? skill power + skill power mod? I tried both they did the same DPS. I guess it's one way or other.
I tried this I get the same fire arm damage bonus at 50% health and lower… doesn’t become higher at lower health.. with gley yes cause that’s her ability but not with other characters
It is also why Shot Focus isn't as great as everyone scrambles for. As it is a small +15% Firearm ATK. So half of what Walk a Tightrope offers (though doesn't require you to drop HP, you just always have it at a small cost of Skill Power Modifier). Making Shot Focus only worth it if you just have nothing else to add into the slot. Since if Walk a Tightrope is only worth realistically a +8.5% DPS boost, then Shot Focus being half that is only worth +4.25% DPS increase. Though all does add up if you just stack a bit more and more on if you're only focusing on guns....
So it's additive with other firearm atk multipliers, not multiplicative? This is where the common parlance of games like Warframe and Diablo really does help out.
@@MrGAMEOVER85 overwhelming Shield automatically cuts your health below 50%, then body Enhancement to increase health and shield. Every shield and health mod drastically increases your shield to the point where you can tank Gluttony. I have been using it ever since I discovered it
@@eftultima that's not how that works. It fixes your MAX hp to 1. Since you can't have partial points of hp, you aren't even using that mod. I have no idea what you think is happening, but it isnt.
@@MrGAMEOVER85 it still increases the damage of firearm atk, it's not a lot but it's still an increase. Though I'm not gonna sit here and argue. Go do it yourself.
@eftultima I don't have to. Overwhelming shield does nothing to increase your damage. In fact, it makes tightrope impossible to trigger. And I'm telling you, anyone using overwhelming shield is a fool. It's quite possibly the worst mod in the game. At least top 5, guaranteed. It should never be used by anyone, ever.
you should have someone lvl an account for you!! I noticed last time. I watched a video. I felt your account looked bare bones. now I feel your a you are voice for the corp. anyways.. still you do give good info I also feel it is very close to accurate,👍
Well if you have high fire rate and crit and weakpoint you can benefit quite a bit too since those are mutipliers. It's just that people already always run action reaction+rifling enhancement+ atleast elemental conductor so you're getting diminishing returns from walk of tightrope. Same logic goes for snipers
This. I’m so tired of the constant teammates for Infiltrations & Intercepts that are going down every time damage even touches them in the slightest. I’ve begun turning my mic on just for those moments “ya know there’s such thing as a health mod, right? Right?! It’s ok to equip one. You’re gonna be ok. Just try it out. Trust me”. lol holy shit it’s crazy
Sorry guys... words are hard.
I want my gold back
@@el.godfather1335I'm broke
you looked like you were gonna sneeze at start
No problem, appreciate your videos, your math, and that you're not being another content creator pointing at player numbers and complaining even though player number declines are completely normal in games like tfd
So what I'm taking away from this video is that it works exactly how I thought it worked and it is still good.
It might work the way you thought but increasing your firearm atk by a minimal amount when you could use a different mod in that slot to do much more is questionable.
@@xSpeakerYT this
Good and bad are always circumstancial in this game. For instance, if you are playing Gley in an environment where she can easily replenish her health, enemies aren't all that powerful and so on, it's good. It's a little extra dmg you can safely add to your build.
However, if you are fighting a high dmg dealer where sources of HP are scarce, then risking half of your HP for such a small increase in dmg is plain stupid.
A good example is Hailey. I have an extreme dmg build to solo colossi up to the swamp walker (included). You don't need to care about HP, DEF, Cooldown ir duration because you won't need any of that. You'll kill the monster before it has time to realize you're there.
However, if you will face any colossi after the SW, that fantastic build becomes a very asinine one.
When people realize this, they don't do the kind of mistakes that hurt them, hurt the party and become much happier. Hailey has a build perfect for invasions, for instance. The time you lose getting to the final fight will be compensated by how fast you'll delete the commander. Same for boss reactors, dungeons, etc.
@@N7Tigger majority of people think descendant mods multiply gun mods. Because every other game does that
@@xSpeakerYT What mod would do much more for a gunner build?
Glad someone finally pointed this out. I tested a while ago and the math didn't really check out like I was expecting. Didn't really test in this much detail, but I came to the same conclusion that it just wasn't worth it, at least for my build. Passionate sponsor probably works the same way, but is still worth the mod slot on Yujin/Luna/Ajax/Enzo as long as you can keep it up, since 75% is a much higher percentage.
Ye. The whole point is people sac health for 8% dmg.... nah I'm good
It WAS worth it when Gley could heal from structures. Since that change, I put it in the closet and buffed my Gley instead..
When your arse is pointing to the moon, your DPS is 0.
I knew it! Well, I kinda felt it, thats why I switched for dangerous ambush
It's great that words don't mean what I think they mean in this game
Another informative video Ryechew. Thank you
I knew I wasn't crazy. It just felt meh when I added it to a build and went back since it just didn't feel worth the risk
Same reason I don't stress over shot focus, tested it and got like a 7% damage increase. Sure it's good, but I don't stress if it doesn't fit into a build
@timmylaw yep. Goes on sharen. And barely Ajax
Who thought it worked differently than this? This is exactly how i thought it worked, which why i didn't really use it
This is very interesting. Never did the math myself (because I'm just not good at it and too lazy to do so lol) but this is making sense because when testing on Devourer with both Walk a tight rope and Annihilation, the kill time was not dramatically different than not running those. It's about a 1 to 1.5 second difference. Maybe 2 seconds if trying hard. But this is good info because there are a lot of other survivability/utility mods I would have rather run.
Rye doing damage testing while Im just finding out that the enemy destroyer has jiggle physics when shot
What’s good ryechew. Good to see you still uploading tfd
I'm working on one now. 16hrs of editing needed lol😢
Very clear explanation. Thank you. Also Ominous Sound looks sleek. Might have to get it.
please do a deep dive comparing the pros and cons of bionic fuel HP vs. shield builds vs. strong mentality + maximize conservation combo
Oooh. I like this
There's a bunch of mods like this that people just run with and they aren't really worth it. 😅
Thanks for pointing this out!
so the simple way is that Walk a tight rope is only adding the 30% of the base firearm ATK value of the gun which is a static value and equates to very little once everything else is added on top of it
And THIS is why the blue elemental mods for weapons are so competitive. They(edit: the blue elemental mods) ARE multiplicative to total Firearm attack.
EDIT: OK, so seems the wording here was confusing people. I kept it simple on purpose because math/explaining with text is hard/unapproachable. So I'll break down my statement as best I can.
Blue elemental mods read "Add ELEMENT ATK equal to X% of Firearm ATK"(30% at max).
Firearm ATK mods read "Firearm ATK +X%".
Purple elemental mods (priority/gunbarrel) read "Element ATK +X%".
Blue elemental mods are coded to include all "Firearm ATK +X%" prior to calculating its own 30%(why? ask the devs). So a general rounds weapon with 100k base atk: Rifling Reinforcement +32% (32k), Action Reaction +61% (61k), Electric enhancement +30% (57,900). The more Firearm ATK+% you have, the more effective damage you get out of the blue elemental mods.
Why blue? "Element ATK +X%" (the purple mods) work exactly like "Firearm ATK +X%" mods. So a general rounds weapon with 100k base atk: Poison Priority +50% Toxic attack(0k). That's right, if you don't have an element on your weapons, "Element ATK +X%" (the purple mods) do nothing because there is no base element to multiply off.
Blue elemental mods "Add ELEMENT ATK equal to X% of Firearm ATK" effectively adds a 'base elemental ATK' to the weapon(same with weapon elemental rolls) that the purple mods multiply off of.
Hopefully that clears up any misunderstandings.
Side note: Elemental damage can crit but CANNOT weakpoint scale(why? ask the devs). As the status effects are based off the elemental damage received they also are unaffected by weakpoint scaling. This is why blue elemental mods are COMPETITIVE, not BETTER. If a weapon's weakpoint scaling is 2.5 then that 32k rifling reinforcement adds is an effective 80k while the element mod is still at 57,900.
No, they aren't... All increases are calculated the same way regardless of mod rarity.
Everything is added into its own multiplier, and then those multipliers are multiplied by each other after. That's how it works for everything in the game.
@@Harmonic14 Incorrect. Most Multipliers are additive to the Multiplier itself. Hence why when you look at the Firearm ATK Multiplier, it continues to increase as you equip different Mods. "Walk A Tight Rope" is it's own Multiplier whose total is additive to the Main Total. So instead of increasing the Firearm ATK Multiplier by 30% like almost every other source, "Walk A Tight Rope" adds a flat Firearm ATK worth 30% of the Firearm's Base ATK to your Firearm's ATK after all other Multipliers are calculated.
So @NovalleFox is correct in that "Walk A Tightrope" is an Additive Firearm ATK Bonus whereas, pretty much, everything else is a Multiplicative Firearm ATK Bonus.
@@ForeverDegenerate You and NovellaeFox are both incorrect, Walk a Tightrope and Rifling Reinforcement are the same kind of bonus. They are both multiplicative with firearm attack, and they are both additive with eachother, the same way both stack with Action and Reaction.
The formula for WaT and A&R should be something like ' [firearm atk] * (1 + [WaT] + [A&R])', or 'ATK * (1+ 0.3 + 0.6)' which is equal to ATK * 1.9.
Which is pretty well what we see in the test, with 13k base, 22k with A&R (base * 1.6) and then 26k with A&R and WaT (base * 1.9, equivalent to base * (1 +0.3 + 0.6)).
Ryechew just explained it in a weird way. Yeah, you could explain it as attack plus RR and A&R times attack and THEN add Walk a Tightrope times attack afterwards, back you could equally do the walk a tightrope first and then add RR and A&R after too.
@@Harmonic14 Left an edit to better explain my point in case I was unclear.
@@MasterAarott Left an edit to better explain my point in case I was unclear.
I've got a tank/gun Ult Lepic that doesn't even use his 4. And based on this video I'm taking Walk a Tightrope off. I don't like the play style anyway.
Man, thks for this vídeo!
I run Yugin a lot i’ll feel much less guilty spamming heals for passionate sponsor with a gley in the party now
What about when you use overwhelming shield will walk a tightrope still work
Tf did people think it works this is exactly that way i assumed it worked
What do you mean you would rather have hp over dmg? We all know you do the most damage by face flooring! That's why everyone loves glass cannons! lol.
Will it work on Freyna with a shield build and 1HP?
I didn’t really get it so it’s just 50% of base damage?
Thanks I learned something today
in bunny's case, this module shares the same mechanic with Multitalented, same DPS output. with Max/Max possible HP, Technical Manual fall behind with 15% DPS less. Another question tho, under min/max condition, singular power + singular power mod =? skill power + skill power mod? I tried both they did the same DPS. I guess it's one way or other.
I tried this I get the same fire arm damage bonus at 50% health and lower… doesn’t become higher at lower health.. with gley yes cause that’s her ability but not with other characters
We need you in diablo 4 next season /expansion in October
Possibility... I need more content lol
@@ryechewI'll definitely watch you make diablo content. It's so hard finding people who do deep dives for diablo
It is also why Shot Focus isn't as great as everyone scrambles for. As it is a small +15% Firearm ATK.
So half of what Walk a Tightrope offers (though doesn't require you to drop HP, you just always have it at a small cost of Skill Power Modifier).
Making Shot Focus only worth it if you just have nothing else to add into the slot.
Since if Walk a Tightrope is only worth realistically a +8.5% DPS boost, then Shot Focus being half that is only worth +4.25% DPS increase.
Though all does add up if you just stack a bit more and more on if you're only focusing on guns....
I agree. But the 5% to me is sometimes worth is. Rarely though.
So it's additive with other firearm atk multipliers, not multiplicative?
This is where the common parlance of games like Warframe and Diablo really does help out.
I use overwhelming Shield, with shot focus and walk a tight rope. No need to half your health.
Overwhelming shield.... fuggin what
@@MrGAMEOVER85 overwhelming Shield automatically cuts your health below 50%, then body Enhancement to increase health and shield. Every shield and health mod drastically increases your shield to the point where you can tank Gluttony. I have been using it ever since I discovered it
@@eftultima that's not how that works. It fixes your MAX hp to 1. Since you can't have partial points of hp, you aren't even using that mod. I have no idea what you think is happening, but it isnt.
@@MrGAMEOVER85 it still increases the damage of firearm atk, it's not a lot but it's still an increase. Though I'm not gonna sit here and argue. Go do it yourself.
@eftultima I don't have to. Overwhelming shield does nothing to increase your damage. In fact, it makes tightrope impossible to trigger.
And I'm telling you, anyone using overwhelming shield is a fool. It's quite possibly the worst mod in the game. At least top 5, guaranteed. It should never be used by anyone, ever.
you should have someone lvl an account for you!! I noticed last time. I watched a video. I felt your account looked bare bones. now I feel your a you are voice for the corp.
anyways.. still you do give good info I also feel it is very close to accurate,👍
So it works exactly like i expected it to.....
So on a sniper its good?
I think so. Like demonic and hailey
Ohh noooooo. The return on spending a mod slot and halving my health is really small? So sad.
additive to firearm atk. not multiplicative. easy
I see so its a skill that might only be worth it on a sniper with a higher dps base stat
Well if you have high fire rate and crit and weakpoint you can benefit quite a bit too since those are mutipliers. It's just that people already always run action reaction+rifling enhancement+ atleast elemental conductor so you're getting diminishing returns from walk of tightrope. Same logic goes for snipers
Lots of people don’t register in their mind that they can switch this mediocre of a mod to some QoL mods and still kill things just as fast
This. I’m so tired of the constant teammates for Infiltrations & Intercepts that are going down every time damage even touches them in the slightest. I’ve begun turning my mic on just for those moments “ya know there’s such thing as a health mod, right? Right?! It’s ok to equip one. You’re gonna be ok. Just try it out. Trust me”. lol holy shit it’s crazy
Where did u get that cosmetic? I can't find nothing for gley
Shop > Premium Skin > Gley’s Intensive Care Subject
😮
Please do a TL;DR at the end of your videos and dumb it down a lil 🥲
Me no good with numbers.
I didn’t really get it so it’s just 50% of base damage?