F-14 vs MIG-23 Real World Dogfight | Thunderbird Fighter Pilot Reacts
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2022
- U.S. Air Force F-14 vs MIG-23 dogfight footage. The F-14 is an American supersonic, twin-engine, two-seat, variable-sweep wing variable geometry fighter aircraft. The MiG-23 is a jet fighter aircraft designed by the Mikoyan-Gurevich. Who will win?
#f14 #mig23 #fighterpilot #fighterjet
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So this is the Growling Sidewinder intro came from, Lol. Awesome.
Was looking for this comment the second the vid started 😂
I dont think its the same but it does sound similiar
@@beatbiest2895 it litterly is.
@@dizzyizzie6354 I checked it and it sounded different idk
@@dizzyizzie6354 nvm youre right, just the lock sound isn't there the whole time like in his intro
I liked that you stressed the fact of having mutual respect and that it’s not just about killing the other guy. The world can do with a lot less of needless hate, Respect!
That's something only fly boys have the privilege of saying. In Iraq and Afghanistan there were no shutes on the ground. People die in war. I guess that makes him and all pilots sportsmen that are playing a game. He was also a 15E pilot. Did he look for a shute after dropping JDAAMs on insurgents?
nah, the only thing that actually stopped the luftwaffe is losing all their best pilots over the channel. In an era of air dominance letting pilots live can mean years of additional combat and loses on the ground. war is hell.
@@matthewjackson5325 even before that the germans and most countries pilots had a sort of chivalry code. Of course to quote POC “its more of just guidelines than actual rules” so obviously not every pilot were so “knightly” but pilots always have had a sort of respect for each other for the most part. But i can see your point and i do agree that even in the air war it can get brutal and less “fair”
That “aw Jesus” comment was from the pilot of the shooter F-14. His RIO shot the Sparrow; the pilot was apparently surprised.
He didn't wanna do paperwork 😅
I thought it was from AB…the air warfare commander.
he said aw Jesus because the first sparrow missle immediately went dumb then they fired a second one immediately after.
Rio can't shoot the missile. The pilot is he only person allowed to shoot missile or drop bombs in the US military because he is the only one allowed to make the call. I don't even think there is a option in any 2 seat jet for the Rio to shoot. They can sit everything up for the pilot they can lock people. They can do everything but actually hit the pickle button. First off all they don't even have to be a pilot to be a Rio so they can't fire any ultimately don't have the authority because they don't know what the pilot is about to do and he could do something that puts them out of the window they can let the weapons go
@@procommunistdestruction2318 Thats incorrect, the RIO has a launch button in the back seat that allows him to fire either the AIM-54 in TWS (Track while scan) Or a sparrow in STT
The thing which surprised me the most was the conversation over the radio, I never thought it would be so vocal on comms in a dogfight, but loved the breakdown & great insight into the reality as well 😊
According to Ward Carroll, the bandits were not turning into the F-14's at all, and the E-2 could see that they were not, but a quirk in the F-14's radar made it look like they were.
Why didn't the E2 communicate this to the Tomcats?
@@BlyGuy I'm not sure that they didn't, but there was a lot of confusion. It may have been that the F-14 crew trusted the picture they were getting more because they were closer to to it. Check out the video if you get a chance, it's pretty interesting.
@@RocketToTheMoose haha I just finished rewatching Mooch's video and must not have paid close enough attention the first time since a lot of it seemed new to me.
@@BlyGuy When the F-14 turned to take that offset, it takes a few seconds for the Radar to stabilize and the display to reflect that change. The F-14 RIO should have been familiar enough with the quirks of the F-14's radar.
The "Oh Jesus" is because you're listening to the RIO/WSO and he fired the first Fox 1 from the back seat without warning the pilot.
“I don’t for a fucking ToNEeEEeEe!” I say that all the time in dcs 😂
Ward Carrol has the most insightful background breakdown of this engagement. Everyone should definitely check it out. It definitely helped change my perspective of the overall incident as a whole.
I spent most of my teenaged years in the 1990s under the flightpath at Oceana NAS and owned one of those Tomcats 4, Libya 0 t-shirts you used to see everywhere. Felt pretty fucking embarrassed about that after seeing Ward Carroll's explanation about what really happened in the 1989 Gulf of Sidra incident. 😕
Yes the part where they are told not to engage and do so anyway is bad... apparently the Migs didn't even have radar on and were almost certainly not even aware that they were being engaged :(
I would encourage you to watch the analysis by Ward Carroll (call sign Mooch) who was an F-14 RIO in another squadron during this period of time. It appears the pilot that fired the missiles didn't get the data accurate from the Tomcat's own radar, and some anomaly with the tracking data made it only looked liked the MiG's were jinking back into them. Carroll also explains the ROE the squadrons were operating under during this engagement (it also helps that he personally knew some of the aviators involved).
Ryan, thanks for commenting on this video, so interesting to hear the point of view of real life dogfighting from a pilot that also flew an air superiority fighter. The Tomcat was such a valuable chess piece for us 🇺🇸 during the Cold War, its potential alone caused our adversaries to respect us (except for Gaddafi he had to find out what the F14 can do.) Really, it’s a mighty cool upload. 💯 💥 👍
Yes. Entertaining.
The F/A18 was not initially ment to replace the F14. It replaced the A6 an A7.
In 1980s one of PAF F 16 shot down its own wingman while chasing A MiG 23. That Aim 9L is basically shot on the Soviet MiG 23 but his wingman (another F 16)came in the path of that missile and he forced to eject.
That Soviet pilot basically mess with both of them.
This was fantastic. Wow. Everything is so fast.
Nice breakdown!
I’ve read a bit about this incident and heard a breakdown from Ward Carroll, who knows some of the guys that were involved. Apparently the actions from the RIO in Gypsy 207 were not looked upon very favorably by his fellow fighter pilots.
I’ve read about that. Sounds like a lot of anti American propaganda to me. These pilots tried to spare these guys 6 separate times until they could no longer ignore the threat.
I think being a fighter pilot is the coolest thing on the fucking Earth and I love your videos bro, please don't ever stop
Hey thanks! I’ll keep ‘em coming 🙌🔥
Excellent break down
Dope That’s growling spider winders intro !
Great analysis and explanation, Max is also very polite!
14:03 is the Growling Sidewinder intro sound 😂
was bout to comment that hahaha
Ward Carroll has an excellent video on this incident as well, I believe some of the questions you had in this video are addressed in his! Great video!
Good job , I a was radarman on a CVA that patrol these waters long before this ingagement. Great to hear your description of the event. I'm sure everyone in CIC was going crazy with excitement. Yep, I had nothing but good times....GO NAVY....
Yoooo I just realized growling sidewinder uses this audio as his intro
The Mig-23M reluctantly accelerates to mach 1.5, but then it rushes like crazy to Mach 2.4 and more, so Robert Bond crashed in Nevada
Some interesting facts about this engagement,
The F-14 apparently has some lag in TWS so the RIO thought bogeys were jinking into them when they infact were not, this was not relayed by AWACS.
The first aw Jesus is the pilot seeing the fox 1 missile trail from the RIO launching, he really didnt expect him to launch.
And the last fox 2 kill with no tone was because he didn't have the aim9 selected you can hear the RIO screaming to select aim 9.
It’s cool how I recognized growling sidewinders intro in the beginning of the video
it was the camera on the bottom of the f-14 you were looking through (very useful too lol)
This fight was part of the Falcon 3 - Hornet: Naval Strike Fighter intro, a 1993 sim from Spectrum Holobyte.
another great video! I like the mutual respect pilots can have for one another. destroy the aircraft not the person
One of the theory regarding the Ustica disaster when an Italian DC 9 was downed near the coast of Sicily is that a skirmish between Libyan mig 23s and US fighters caused the downing.
Love the channel! I watch this show literally every time I play Ace Combat 7, so ya know what I’m about to do! Haha (PTO FRIDAY)
Very exciting stuff. I found it interesting that they called the enemy targets bogies rather than hostiles. I always thought Hollywood got that wrong still calling active targets bogies once they’ve engaged. I guess that’s what the “Tally 2” call was about. I appreciate the breakdown of the coms.
Bogey is commonly used when dogfight. Bogey at 6. Hostile is when it first appeared on MFD search screen hostile detected. By the way, F-14 vs Mig-23 in visual range won't involve much dogfight as the mig-23 has poorer turn rate than mig-21. The F-14 would easily get to mig-23 tail.
I liked how you worded that - it's the equivalent of a sporting match (i.e. Olympics, representing one's country), and the preference is to see a parachute. You're awesome! :D :) Edit: Although additional revelations show this was embarrassing for the Navy.
Pretty sure both pilots that were shot down in this engagement died still after their chutes landed in the ocean
@@mustard106 😥Although, I did find an answer on Quora from Andy Bordick/'Cosmo' Former F-14 and T-45 pilot that indicates it's survivable, but the emphasis is with US jets/training.
This was a boxing match where the F14s claimed Victory for knocking down one of the spectators sitting ringside. The Migs were NOT engaging and likely had their radars OFF. They were patrolling the Libyan ADIZ . The ship even told the tomcats weapons tight, they were not free to engage , but they did so anyway apparently because the RIO lost his cool and fired the missile from the back seat, hence the pilots comments when it happened
I always thought the pilots turned right to see what they would do. "They jinked back into me" meant they are being aggressive by coming straight at the tomcats? When they kept coming, that is when they armed and lined up the t... 🤔
Love the breakdown. Always appreciated. I was surprised you didn't cover the controversy around this engagement. While I don't necessarily believe that US was in the wrong, the RIO certainly seems to have jumped the gun, perhaps in part to him misreading the delay of the track-while-scan radar. Regardless, the tensions were indeed high at the time and it was only a matter of time until a second engagement.
The MiG-23s had acted in an hostile manor according to R.O.E.s established before the F-14s took off. Remember back in 1981 when SU-22s fired a missile at the F-14s before the merge. 1986 -when a LARAF MiG fired on a USAF C-130 50miles south of Malta -over 140miles north of Libya!! So, in this incident the MiG-23s pointed its nose at the F-14s FIVE times, the MiGs met the R.O.E.s
Oh, hey, I had wondered where Growling Sidewinder got the audio for his intro. Apparently it was from this footage.
awesome---grerat description---thx for translating the activity to understandable terms.
Dude … I love this … I’ve seen this story told a few times and it never gets old.. I love the Rio’s participation… it’s near and dear to me… I have an uncle that flew as a Tomcat Rio in VF-103 “the Slugger” a pretty prestigious wing too.. so damn cool 😎 long live Goose!
Rio / Radar Intercept officer … 😁🤘
Hmm. So this where Growling Sidewinder got the intro sound track.
Wish you could cover DDR German mig23 and there training films. I think they are declassified and they demonstrate on how using gci one can apply ambush tactics using floggers
The Luftwaffe was shocked at how hard coded the GCI training was into DDR pilots to the extent that their MiG-29's pilots were never trained to how to dogfight them.
@@pogo1140 yeah true. But I would say since the Soviet bloc logic was based on 5 air forces the model p of mig 23 and mig 29 was based on interception. It's good to complement that the term air superiority does not apply to Soviet military theory but they mainly consider the concept of air supremacy ()
I've heard these coms in falcon bms intro
These days the F-35 C radar is so good they don't need an AWACS radar assist.
Hi @Max Afterburner. Would you like to review the Typhoon? Thx bro!
This is where the growling sidewinders intro is from😅
I've read that Mig-23's had monster acceleration. True? And true just compared to gen 3 fighters or gen 4 as well?
I always remember port and starboard as port and left both have 4 letters
Good video
Love this episode. No one messes with these. Lol.
Need a honest opinion on Indian LCA Tejas aircraft.
Plz reply.
Do not invent about empty space - they had an vozdukh-1 command system and later lazure-1, which brought the aircraft to the target from behind, the pilot can only press fire
Great analysis but RIO, not WSO
Back then 20 miles was the furthest a fox 1 sparrow aim 7E aim could reach out & be affective with a splash 1 that is why that's when he armed them. The later 7F could do double that.
This Lybian Mig-23 was low skilled export versions "S" This version had only"BAD" radar from Mig-21 S/SM and can carry only 4 ATOL K-13 short range missiles. With updated MF of full ML or MLD versions on Russian, Czechoslovak pilots with maximal payload 2 R-23 and 4 R-60 will be not so easy. Czechoslovak pilot in late 80s had US SR-71 fixed, missiles hot. He did not receive permission from control center to "launch" missiles and "maybe" shot down this plane.I can send a link, but it's only in Czech language.Czech and Czechoslovakian pilots were always TOP. Both in World War 2 and in 1953 we shot down Captain Brown on an F-84E during espionage activity with a Mig 15 pilot Šrámek😉
I remember when this happened. Last time Libya got tough with us. Remember the saying saying: Tomcats: 4 Migs:0 (keeping the 1982 incident in mind)
The problem is, the Migs weren't hostile. They probably didn't even know the Tomcats were there until being blown out of the sky.
Love these much better than the gaming ones
They were prepared but trying to avoid splashing them get away from me
Love the video but I think you missed a really important controversy about this incident which is why its infamous rather than famous, Ward Carrol explained it in his video.
so the tomcat has a feature in the main TID radar screen that shows their velocity in relation to yours in a line, so every time the tomcat turned it "looked like the MiGs were turning hot on the tomcat, which was his justification for engaging them and shooting them down
however, as an experienced RIO, he should have known this, and used the ground track screen to see what their true heading was, that would have shown they never turned hot at any point
so hes actually got a super bad rep in the military as his call to engage was a reaalllllllllly bad call that could have blown up to be a much bigger incident and could have started a war
I read that the RIO firing that missile was a surprise to the pilot. 8:09.
can you fire 2 fox 1s will it trash the 1st 1 or not?
That mig 23 pilot did not know what hit him
F14s shoot down Migs who were NOT engaging them in the Libyan ADIZ because the crew were unprofessional hotheads.
Ward Carrols take is a better indication of what actually happened including the orders from the ship to NOT engage.
The tomcats also had Phoenix
Reading a lot about RIO losing his cool and that they shouldn't have engaged/were told not to. So I'm just wondering what the aftermath of the incident was for RIO or if this is a situation where even if you know your guy fucked up everyone would back him up because of the tension of situation or admitting fault would only make things worse or something
why did u put US airforce F 14 in the descirption
Why does the description state U.S. Air Force F-14, USAF never had F-14 it was an USN jet…
Pilots are happy to see the enemy parachute, meanwhile Marines or Army on the ground are waiting patiently for their prey.
You called the RIO a "WSO" LoL -=Fly Navy=-
the MiG 23 doesn't have a pulse doppler radar that's why it has trouble locking onto bandits below him
That is incorrect. It has a pulse doppler radar (Saphir-23M - NATO codename High Lark) with lookdown-shootdown capability.
Concept of the Eagle Wall. Side by side all able to fire FOX-3's.
Wasn’t quite “peer” work. Still interesting.
Orders pilot to hold fire. Immediately fires lol
In the Army, it’s also called “patrols”.. but the grunts (myself included) call it “trolling for contact”
Makes sense, thanks for the comment bro
@@MaxAfterburnerusa only because you replied here, I have a question.. finally watched maverick.. LOVE IT.. but why couldn’t our forces use high altitude bombers to do the same job? GPS Jamming? Basically, was that mission logical.. I’ll watch your review vid again.. and prob ask there.. thanks, man
What's the name of your lamp in the background - thanks in advance Sir✌🏼
Hello I hope you are doing great and I have a couple of questions to ask about the Air Force. But let me introduce myself my name is Jacob mendez and I am from Cerritos California. I just graduated high school and now I attend California State University of Long Beach and I am majoring in history. I’ve been into aviation and planes my whole life. I love watching planes and learning new things about them. And joining the Air Force and becoming a fighter pilot has always been one of my biggest goals. And now I am 100% confident that I want to join the Air Force and become a pilot. What should I do now? Should I talk to recruiters? Any help will be great. Thank you so much and I love watching your content.
I'm not in the USAF but first you do need to talk to a recruiter but also do research cause the recruiters do lie. I believe you first have to finish college. A great video with info is this one ua-cam.com/video/SGzLDxEAbl0/v-deo.html . hope u succeed bro
Definitely talk to recruiters! They’ll help you out and answer any questions you have.
No, don't waste your time with recruiters. I just interviewed for the ANG to fly F-35s and was one of the finalists. Also I temporarily was at USAFA. Take my advice seriously:
1. If you want Active Duty pilot, go ROTC or talk to officer recruiter for OTS. Both don't promise a pilot slot. Unless you're extremely passionate about it and want to live the USAF Academy life, don't go. It's 4 years away from family and friends. You're form a strong bond with people there but don't go in with a gf/bf nor missing your home town. No commitment back home=happy life at USAFA
2. If you want the good life, go Air National Guard. You apply for a specific unit for a specific aircraft. No messing around wasting your time. Biggest piece of advice, get popular with the guys.
3. Look up "Make them tell you no" facebook group and join it. We all ask and answer questions on there. Also look up CW Lemoine on UA-cam. Watch his videos on how to become a pilot.
4. Sports, leadership, fitness, and be a good dude. Learn to socialize. Sell yourself to them as someone they want to fly with for the next 20 years.
5. Look up Bogidope. Spend the money on their courses. It's worth it. I know how to make a good resume and I am great at testing, so I didn't need their resume course or AFOQT course. But, I took their interview prep course and it 100% prepared me. BUT, don't go in like a nerd and follow the formula like a robot, they'll notice. Follow the tips. Be yourself. And NEVER fake it. I've talked to MANY air force pilots and they all say being genuine is#1 rule.
6. Get your PPL. No questions asked. It's not "required"...but it is if you're going to compete for an ANG spot
If you have more questions, reply here
i like how they stayed and watched for the pilot to eject. end of the day people went home
Unfortunately, not. Above comments describe what happened during that incident.
The video description says, "U.S. Air Force F-14 vs MIG-23 dogfight footage." You might want to correct that. The US Navy operated the F-14, not the US Air Force.
This one was a pretty uncomfortable watch, it may be worth looking into the details of this particular incident if you haven't already and maybe even consider doing a follow up. I do really appreciate what you're doing here though, it's really interesting to hear what you have to say about things like this.
Just curious but why was it an uncomfortable watch? Just wondering.
@@robh5798 Strap in as this'll be a bit of a long reply. From what I understand of things whether they ejected or not the mig 23 guys died here. Throughout they are referred to as "bogey" unknown aircraft rather than "bandit" enemy aircraft without permission to fire upon or "hostile" enemy aircraft clear to engage. The supposedly aggressive jinking into the F-14's direction was an unfortunate quirk of the tomcat's radar exaggerating their movements, the mig 23s did not even have the radars required for their weapons turned on and their actual intentions are a mystery. We hear the uncertainty in that "wait a minute" and the "oh Jesus" was from the F-14 pilot being caught by surprise at his RIO firing off air to air missiles. All that combined leaves us with a video where several men die in an attack that was at worst against the rules of engagement and at best the result of a trigger happy RIO with iffy information being celebrated as "good kills."
The intent of the Migs in this engagement is debatable at points, given their SA.
American fighter pilot training pays off!👍
*RIO, not WSO.
Fox 1’s still on a F14? I figured those things would have been phased out for the most part by then….. are fox 2 and 3 weapons that new?
Fox 1/2/3 is referring to the missile seeker types.
1 is for Semi-Active-Radar-Homing missiles (SARH) which needs guidance from the shooting aircraft at all times
2 is for Heat Seeking missiles, fire and forget
3 is for Active Radar Homing (ARH) which have their own on-board radar which turns on to seek the target after a predefined target distance.
You have many different generations of each missiles
Furthermore, the F-14 has access to the AIM-7 (SARH) and AIM-54 (ARH), the AIM-54 wasn't designed for hitting Fighter sized targets, it can perform in dogfights, but for those scenarios the F-14 uses the AIM-7 to get Fighters.
Usual loadouts were 2 sidewinders, 2 phoenixes and 3 sparrows, chances are the phoenixes weren't even mounted for that mission as they were designed for hitting Tankers, AWACS or cruise missiles
Growling sidewinder intro
The last time USSR/Russia had built a true peer to peer air craft. Comparable to west best offerings.
Was the Mig 15.
Ever since then, US and western made aircrafts have always been superior.
And the technological gap only got worse in part thanks to Adolf Tolkachev’s intelligence.
It’s a combination of superior resources, less corruption, and superior intelligence of why we make dominant aircraft, that are decades ahead of our rivals. Case in point Russia and Chinese latest designs can’t match air craft that was being tested in the 90s and designed in the late 80s.
Russia stopped being original past the MiG19 (a beast that still to this day can out dogfight contemporary jets in sustained rate fights) The MiG21 was desperation incarnate that went good but the MiG23 is a vague copy of this and that. Because it's all about stealing or traitors, rats that snitch documents to Mother Russia in very early stages of development thus leading to original scraped designs that become a thing in Russia and they go Kaboom when they test them out
Yanks are essentially some of the most brilliant people on the planet. We are an astonishingly effective multiracial multicultural society because we are a People of Law. Obey the law, be of exemplary character… these people actually embody vasts swath of our society and it’s only natural that many who would flee oppression, end up serving in our defense industry to heroic capacity and there first hand experiences can be seen in the dedication of there work.
Plenty of Russian and Chinese folks have worked really damn hard to make sure that Totalitarianism can essentially never set its foot on American soil. Thus the constant foreign psychological operation to induce a civil war in the United States of America.
We gotta educate the public about this more. We must. ✌🏻🇻🇮🇺🇸
I can't corroborate that. Both a basic mig 21/mig29/flanker.can easily out do a basic f 16, f 15, typhoon. The difference comes to equipment update.tight badgets and limited training due to fuel and spare parts. The Americans if put into a limited economic situation they wouldn't fair any better. ie
1992 Somalia.
Afghan Saga.
USA can print money near infinitely it seems, so there is plenty of weapons makers there to innovate and profit. No other country right now can print the money like that.
I think the flanker is a pletty good aircraft.
We make good Aviators in Fallon.
Only a fly boy could describe war as a sporting event. Those of us on the ground played for keeps. There was no shute for US or the enemy.
Hey there, I hope you are okay. Definitely seek our resources for help if you need it.
I heard the Flogger is crazy fast
Compared to the F-14, when the Navy/USAF flew them against F-14's they found the only viable tactic for a MiG-23 pilot was to dive for the deck in full burner and fly so low (below 100ft) and hope the US pilot lost sight.
Not a pilot by any means, but if the bandits were continuously "jinking" to reacquire an intercept path, they obviously had the F-14s on radar right?
No disrespect to Max but there's a lot more going on in this video. Look for the one Ward Carroll did. He's a former F-14 RIO that knows great detail of this second Gulf of Sidra incident.
So the advance of the F-14 is another radar plain? so what will happen if F-14 and the MIG -23 would have the same information level?
No, the F-14 can see the MIG at 80-100 miles, the MiG-23 would not see the F-14 until much much closer, it's closer to the F-4 Phantom II level of radar
Did the marine corp really need a separate branch called navy for their taxi service?
You paraphrasing a line from the movie 'A Few Good Men'?.. Yeah, the billions of dollars put into some of the most hi-tech weaponry is there just to give marines a ride🙄
they were flying over international waters that's why the master arm wasn't on..
what are the probabilities of the pilot dying from missile impact? i bet youve been asked this before
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
The first mig pilot got killed I think
F-14 vs Boeing 737
well what business you had thousand miles away from U.S waters and airspace?
Freedom of navigation, Libya was claiming the entire Gulf of Sidra as part of Libya, international law states that the maritime "border is 12nm, economic zone is 200 miles.
@@pogo1140 Well in that case U.SAF was way beyond their borders then , but still they shoot
mig 23 isnt even close.. i would take a mig 21 into a fight over a mig 23 against an f14 lol
"U.S. Air Froce F-14"? Seriously? :)
Well, when I was studying aviation in Cuba, we studied that air combat, as far as I studied, the MIGs were doing complicated pilotage, without weapons, so you knocked down a pigeon, it was very easy for you, remember the pilots of the socialist camp were not up to date without authorization to shoot, so this is all very easy for you.
Im not gonna lie, MiG23 is in my opinion much more capable than the F14.