Miles morales in some instances is a good legacy character, like in the movies and in the ultimate universe he was great, in 616, he’s a lot better than he was but he barely feel like a legacy character there, he’s not there to replace Peter, he’s just there to capitalize on what Peter started.
@@streetside2833and batman, the flash, and green lantern aren't popular characters? It doesn't matter if the character is popular or not, if the character is bad, the popularity of spiderman will not hold him up on his own.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Circular Storytelling affects how we see Legacy Characters. There is no real "legacy", if the original character is still there. It's hard for a lot of comic fans to "buy" this type of character knowing that they will, most likely, never see them achieve the things they are supposed to achieve.
COOOOOK Fantastic video, I really hope this current generation of new creatives like me and others can grab the torch so that we can tell stories about new characters, continue legacy, and hopefully close the book or at least a chapter in the progression of these much older characters. Especially for DC as I do think aspect is a fundamental aspect to have it operating at its best.
Big reason I dont think legacy characters works in comics like Marvel and DC, is because they dont really allow for the tourch to be passed on. At least not outside Elseworlds that are generally sidelined to their own little corner in the multiverse. For there to be a legacy there needs to be a future for the next gen, but with DC/Marvel constantly retconning if not straightup rebooting the progenitors to be the main guys in their heyday, they make the "successors" generally just seem redundant and thus forgetable. Think stories like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Ultraman and even the Power Rangers to an extent, are way better at doing legacies, because they allow the successors to have their spotlight whilst the originals grow older.
I love legacy characters! I love the mentor sidekick relationship and seeing young heroes wither take up their mentor's mantle or become great heroes in their own right
Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Captain America, Doctor Strange, etc. I like these characters because of who they are, putting their costumes and abilities on someone else isn't going to transfer my liking of them to the other.
It shouldn't. You can like a Sam Wilson without him being Steve Rodgers, they're not forcing you to like the new character on because of their shared legacy
They did the Identity reveal with Daredevil and he was on trial for being a vigilant the same would apply with Spider-Man since he revealed he was a minor when he started.
I'm mixed on legacy characters because yes Barry and Hal weren't the first Flash or Green lantern. My thing is legacy characters using the mantle or characters running around using the same name especially while the other one is still living. I prefer if they had their own name owning their own identity Like Spider-Man's clones for example I like Ben Riley called the scarlet spider, Kaine being Kaine, hobbie being called spider punk, mary jane spinnerette, Gwen Stacy as spider Gwen/ghost spider (obviously the other one's are not clones) Or when they grow out of their code name like Nightwing, Red hood, Red Robin/Drake, spoiler impulse. Let's take miles for example I don't have a problem with him being a spiderman I prefer they call him something else where he embrace on doing his own thing as a Spider-Man I don't have a problem with characters like green lantern cuz their literal space cops
I think people forget miles is from the ultimate universe where Peter died. He took up that Spider-Man mantle as he was the one and only. I don't mind characters have their own identity like nightwing and impulse and stuff but the big mantles still await all of them when their mentor has agedo ut the role or die or something like that, I hate that Barry and Wally are just running around both being called Flash, Barry should've never came back, and Bart should've been Flash by now.
@@unluckydreamer yup and a lot of people forget the the MCU is based on the ultimate comics Hell Samuel L Jackson's Nick fury is called Nick fury Jr no serious his name is Nick fury Jr. I too can accept the mantle thing if the og dies, is temporarily out of commission or retires. It's just a preference I have with legacy characters having their own identity
The biggest problem with legacy characters is the companies keep shoving them down your throats when people don’t like them. Like it’s different if it’s a well liked character but when fans don’t like them and they keep shoving them down ur throat is where the problem lies. Successful legacy characters Nightwing, Batman beyond, Damian Wayne robin Wally west flash Kyle rayner green lantern Miles morales Spider-Man Maybe successful if written write Sam Wilson captain America X23 wolverine Unsuccessful She hulk Iron heart Jane foster Thor
I think it works best when a character has their own name. Like how Wally was Kid Flash for a long time, then became Flash when Barry died. Miles didn’t earn the title of Spider-Man in my opinion. He should go by Kid Arachnid or something until he proves he’s worthy of being Spider-Man and that Peter is no longer in action.
I have to agree, Wally West was a true legacy character as he trained under a hero but also became his own hero with his own adventures away from his mentor before he filled his mentor role. With Miles it sort of worked when he was introduced in the Ultimate's universe, Peter had died and part of Miles arc was proving himself. Since he didn't have training they had to give him additional powers to stand up to Sidy's professional villains like invisibility & Electrical. But they also gave him compelling arcs one of which resulted in his mom dying. The problem is once he moved into the main universe it felt like everything he did was undone, his mom even came back to life. And yeah Miles has felt outplace, not helped by him only fighting Peter's foes and the writers only plan for him is to give him new powers. Currently he has vampire powers. They have improved in the recent year by giving him a few of his own villains but I agree it would've been better to call him Kid Arachnid. Much better than Marvel trying to make Stealthy his new name
Kid arachnid? 💀💀💀 bro he definitely earnt the name spiderman. Ultimate peter Parker AND 616 peter Parker told him he earnt it and he can keep the name, he has gone through ALOT, please read some miles before you comment
The thing is when it comes to Marvel and the idea of legacy characters it never was a prevalent concept as most never truly stuck around taking up the mantle for a significant amount of time for a generation to group with the legacy character being just the character unlike a character like Wally West being The Flash who was the only true Flash for 23 years before Barry Allen made his unnecessary return this is why legacy characters in Marvel just don't hit and a character like Miles Morales is really a pseudo-legacy character as he was replacement of Ultimate Spider-Man not the main 616 continuity Spider-Man who was still a live and active so he never really became Spider-Man but was just an Alternate Spider-Man and then you have characters that are less legacy characters and more rebranding like Vision, Human Torch, Ghost Rider and etc. which is also what I would say Barry Allen Flash and Hal Jordan Green Lantern actually are rather than Legacy characters. But when it comes to DC and the way they rebooted an brought characters back is simply why their legacy characters faulted as they literally had to restart from point A.
I agree with most things you said but although Miles doesn't replace 616 peter, a lot of people grew up with that 10 year ultimate Spider-Man run. I t was truly a revitalization of the character and breathed new life into his mythos, so ending it with his death and continuing the title with Miles as the new Spider-Man I think is a justifiable reason to say he is a legacy character. (P.S. 616 Spidey has sucked since the 90's only interesting story from him in the past 30 years has been when his arch enemy took control of his body)
really liked the p[oints you broyught up in this video, for one i reallyu agree with the jason todd take. that was probably your best take so far, as he is one of if not the greatest legacy character given what he is and what he stands for now. really like the tv in the background when we see your png. however, i do have gripes with the fact that the dvd symbol does not hit the corner once, and it doesnt even double bounce, i think we as a fanbase deserve that much. that is not much to ask but it does drive me insane when i wake up in the morning to eat cereal and watch a dreamer video and the dvd symbol only goes diagonal. other than that thjis was a great video and i am looking forward to more videos.
I think the real reason is: a legacy character these days feel like a boot-leg copies. Marvel tries to market Miles Morales as the next Spider-Man, but he rarely (if ever) mentor by Spider-Man. Instead given more powers, fights the exact same enemies in the exact same way, and redoes stories. I want character to learn from the original. Have their own weaknesses and villains like Batman Beyond.
I don’t agree at all. Miles isn’t supposed to be trained by Peter because his whole entire character is built on the fact that he feels responsible for Peter‘s death. He never wanted to be a superhero. Which is why when he got his powers he didn’t do anything with them He’s only Spider-Man to honor Peters Legacy, Peter is to miles what Ben was to Peter just someone to give them that extra push THATS ALL!!! that’s why we don’t need Peter training miles.
@@АрсенийВасильев-и8ъ I lost all interest in Miles when I found out he was doing a Clone Sage. Then after I decide give him another shot, I learn marvel gave him a lightsaber, X-ray vision, turned him into a vampire that can survive sunlight. (Yes, I know they did that to all vampire, but it’s still unbelievable stupid.) You honestly cannot convince me he isn’t a boot-leg copy at this point. Plus, Marvel fans both sides of the argument nonstop. By claiming he’s spider-man in story, but marketing him as Miles Morales. I wish he be killed off, disconnect him from Spider-Man, OR marvel just retire Spider-Man so Miles can take the mantle. Cause I am sick to death of this toxic debate around Miles. Till Marvel makes a choice on the matter, I don’t care what major story arc comes around.
@@oneandonlyrj9519 I think it because Bendis knew what he was doing. Idea of a someone taking on the name of a fallen hero and trying find their own identity was Miles character. Unfortunately, since he came to 616 and his origin had to be changed, writers have no direction. So instead they toss random powers-up and situations his way. Sad, but that’s reality.
I never liked the concept and always hated passing of the torch stories. They make you love a character then have them replaced with a someone else you don’t care about and act like they’re that same person despite not being true. It always made me sad and angry whenever some thing like this happens in media
I disagree because although you have a point when it applies to people like ironheart or maybe jane foster we would lose out on characters like wally west and kyle rayner who I think are the best characters to carry their perspective mantles and they are nothing like they're predecessors
Nah, it gives a sense of continuity and legacy, which is what most superhero stories lack because nobody really dies. It works really well for DC since you get archetypes on the top level, and each subsequent level feels more relatable. I never liked it as much with Marvel since their entire conceit is being relatable from the start. Being a superhero is more a curse, so it feels redundant and against character, unless you’re looking at an alternate future type of story.
good legacy stories make you care about the person the torch is being passed to before the torch is properly passed (or after, depends on the story) and acknowledge the fact this is a new person at the helm and explore the internal and external implications of that, great example of this is wally west of course or kamala khan. and an example of the story taking advantage of the passing of the torch is in the original ultimate miles run, the really showed hpw hard he had to work to prove himself to just the average people of new york that he wasn’t some poser swinging around in a dead man’s suit, say what you will about that run and i certainly have my issues with it but they did a great job exploring all the implications and consequences of miles taking the mantle and used those to play into his own themes (with great power comes great expectations). you’re not going to immediately care about the character the torch is being passed to and WILL miss the predecessor, the new blood will have to prove themselves to you as a reader and prove they can hold this mantle which i think is a cool parallel with the story itself. good writers know this and aren’t gonna write their story like you are supposed to immediately care about this character. in the best case scenario they explore the role in a way that the predecessor couldn’t or through a different lens which gives opportunities for different kinds of stories or dynamics. i think the way miles is used to explore the idea of spider-man and what it means is really interesting, and when it is at it’s best miles resonates with me even more than peter. you may not feel the same about that specifically but i think to write off the very concept of passing of the torch stories completely for reasons that aren’t even universally valid is a bit close-minded.
personally for me my favorite legacy characters are wally west flash batman beyond terry McGinnis and spider-girl mayday parker and Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self and also miles Morales Spider-Man
Personally I put it on the publishers who either don't know how to sell the new characters or in the case of Marvel Films they've done an incredibly poor job of marketing their heroes to have value because the hardest they pushed are Captain America and Iron Man and the rest are more satellite IP in the Marvel Universe. That's a pretty good video and it got me thinking, Does Flashpoint make it that Barry's Mom being dead a fixpoint in time?
There are three main problems with Marvel's legacy heroes. 1) Disrespecting the OG 2) Being pushed for acceptance 3) Keeping the names Of the legacy heroes you mentioned you skipped Amadeus Cho as Hulk. This character was hated because he felt insulting as this random teen was able to get Hulk power with no anger issues or split personality. Then to as insult to injury Marvel killed off Bruce Banner in that terrible even Civil War 2 after they had depowered Bruce. Then their was Riri Willians who had the perfect setup. She could be trained by Tony's AI like a Batman Beyond situation, but no, instead Marvel has Riri act like a well trained competent hero with no need of training or help. Marvel tried hard to push these legacy's but it seemed like they tried too hard to make them better than the original which rubbed fans the wrong way. The reason Miles, Sam and even Bucky work is because they honor their predecessor and hold the same beliefs. Plus it helped that the latter two had history with Steve made them easy to accept. Which leads to the second issue. When dick & Wally took over form their mentors their was a grace period form them to adjust to their new roles and for fans to as well. But with Marvel they once again rush things giving us no real build up with these new heroes and making us accept their new roles. I'll actually use two examples from DC. With Jon Kent they aged him up and just made him Superman, this was and still isn't sitting well with fans as they liked him as a kid as Superboy and it felt to rushed for him to take on his dad's mantle without us seeing his progress, especially since Conner Kent was more deserving to take the mantle first. Then their was Jace Fox as Batman which made no sense given the guy was inly in like two issues back in the 60's or 70's. Then theirs the names. We have Steve Cap and Sam Cap but also Teen Cap from Avengers academy, plus its worse with the spiderman's because they operate in the same city. Basically their are now too many heroes around with the same name that i gets confusing. It's isn't excatly like that with the Flash as their have only been two at a time with the old one Jay then Barry and when he died it was just Jay & Wally, even with Barry back it makes no sense for Wally to change his name since he's had it for decades and more than earned it
Great vid bro. Hopefully marvel can make their legacy characters more popular and liked among their audience and dc just continues to put their legacy characters in the spotlight more
Batman Beyond was the it and cool factor Static Shock was the it and cool factor But WB is so dumb and stupid didn't realize the gems They had in their pocket Dc need too pack there bags and leave
blaming the general public for a company making profit based decisions. Its DC/Marvel's fault for prioritizing profit actually. prioritizing profit is bad!
its the writers fault mostly Geoff Johns, he brought back Hal and Barry and then DC rebooted completely. which proved neither was necessary as Johns on Barry didnt do anything for the Flash and after his run we all saw all of Wally's accomplishments being placed on Barry. Johns could have definitely built up Kyle with a new Corps especially with his level of writing and storytelling. when we entered the regression era at DC we saw Young Justice become the Teen TItans losing all the new characters introduced in YJ, and the Titans became the Outsiders with only Nightwing and Roy making the jump to that book. as much as a lot of people wanted to see Dick be Batman we had seen that before so that's ALSO apart of the regression era. the regression era led us to the new52, that had some new stuff but was basically MORE regression with not great storytelling and recover how poorly the new52 was received DC was forced to regress even harder with the likes rebirth and Doomsday clock. they had relay on the likes of Watchman and Dark Knight return sequels to make up for the shit show they created. legacy has NEVER been a thing for Marvel. it just doesn't work there, like they don't put in enough work. both Miles and Gwen have had Clone sagas. Miles a minimum carnage event. the level of storytelling when trying to introduce new characters tends not to work either like Bendis with Riri. trying to push Sam as the new Nova after Richard went through the Annihilation event that endeared him to fans just wasn't happening. despite the big push to make Carol a thing it just never happened and then we got civil war 2 which made her star plummet even more and Kamala was introduced when Marvel was trying to push the inhumans over the X-men. Then she was made the star of a meh Avengers game, that was basically hunting Inhumans like they were Mutants i read Sam Wilson as Cap and what are somethings that he experienced? Wolf Cap, getting his very own falcon, he even did the Cap's hotline thing much like miles it was something the OG did already all the new characters introduced after Civil War and the 50 state initiative? killed off either during Secret Invasion of Avengers Arena after the graduated from Avengers Academy it was the higher ups that decided to "no more mutants" away and got rid of Spider-man's marriage because they hated him being married and felt mutants were getting to big which i believe both decisions came from joe quesada. hell thanks to the MCU after Shuri was growing into her own character she was regressed back to the Black Panther, i much preferred her upgrade hell it was again Bendis who wouldnt let Hank Pym outgrow his past. prior to him both Johns and Buisek had saw Hank and Janet move past that time in their lives personally Jane Foster Thor explanation was better in the movie then in the comic and at the time Marvel was replacing everybody so that killed my interest in Thor after Aaron hooked me with the Gor the God butcher arc. its been the writers and editoral that wont let their universes grow not us the audience because for quite some time we were on board. Bucky as Cap Monica Rambau as Captain Marvel never seem to get protested as far as i know War machine was his own thing Miles had his own universe and continuity to play with
The real reason why legacy heroes don't "hit the same" is because the mantle are given to more women and minorities then they used to. There is no denying it at this point. And I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the "circular storytelling" is the reason legacy in comics doesn't matter anymore as circular storytelling has ALWAYS been a thing in comics, it's very reason why comic book characters don't age.
The best legacy heroes are Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Wally West and Terry McGuinnes
@@shivammohanlal1332 Kyle Rayner and Miles Morales are up there too
@@unluckydreamer Miles Morales is the best marvel legacg character, but there are definitly a lot more better ones out there
@@shivammohanlal1332 Nah Miles is successful because Spiderman is already a successful character.n
Miles morales in some instances is a good legacy character, like in the movies and in the ultimate universe he was great, in 616, he’s a lot better than he was but he barely feel like a legacy character there, he’s not there to replace Peter, he’s just there to capitalize on what Peter started.
@@streetside2833and batman, the flash, and green lantern aren't popular characters? It doesn't matter if the character is popular or not, if the character is bad, the popularity of spiderman will not hold him up on his own.
I always like Batman’s legacy version. It’s just a neat idea because what happens when people don’t fear the cowl.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Circular Storytelling affects how we see Legacy Characters. There is no real "legacy", if the original character is still there. It's hard for a lot of comic fans to "buy" this type of character knowing that they will, most likely, never see them achieve the things they are supposed to achieve.
thanks
COOOOOK
Fantastic video, I really hope this current generation of new creatives like me and others can grab the torch so that we can tell stories about new characters, continue legacy, and hopefully close the book or at least a chapter in the progression of these much older characters. Especially for DC as I do think aspect is a fundamental aspect to have it operating at its best.
Big reason I dont think legacy characters works in comics like Marvel and DC, is because they dont really allow for the tourch to be passed on. At least not outside Elseworlds that are generally sidelined to their own little corner in the multiverse.
For there to be a legacy there needs to be a future for the next gen, but with DC/Marvel constantly retconning if not straightup rebooting the progenitors to be the main guys in their heyday, they make the "successors" generally just seem redundant and thus forgetable.
Think stories like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Ultraman and even the Power Rangers to an extent, are way better at doing legacies, because they allow the successors to have their spotlight whilst the originals grow older.
Batman Beyond never fell off at least not yet
They barley use him in comics and have not used him in any other medium for the last two decades
I love legacy characters! I love the mentor sidekick relationship and seeing young heroes wither take up their mentor's mantle or become great heroes in their own right
Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Captain America, Doctor Strange, etc. I like these characters because of who they are, putting their costumes and abilities on someone else isn't going to transfer my liking of them to the other.
It shouldn't. You can like a Sam Wilson without him being Steve Rodgers, they're not forcing you to like the new character on because of their shared legacy
They did the Identity reveal with Daredevil and he was on trial for being a vigilant the same would apply with Spider-Man since he revealed he was a minor when he started.
Eh Iron Man don't gotta do that he'll be fine
I'm mixed on legacy characters because yes Barry and Hal weren't the first Flash or Green lantern.
My thing is legacy characters using the mantle or characters running around using the same name especially while the other one is still living.
I prefer if they had their own name owning their own identity
Like Spider-Man's clones for example I like Ben Riley called the scarlet spider, Kaine being Kaine, hobbie being called spider punk, mary jane spinnerette, Gwen Stacy as spider Gwen/ghost spider (obviously the other one's are not clones)
Or when they grow out of their code name like Nightwing, Red hood, Red Robin/Drake, spoiler impulse.
Let's take miles for example I don't have a problem with him being a spiderman I prefer they call him something else where he embrace on doing his own thing as a Spider-Man
I don't have a problem with characters like green lantern cuz their literal space cops
I think people forget miles is from the ultimate universe where Peter died. He took up that Spider-Man mantle as he was the one and only. I don't mind characters have their own identity like nightwing and impulse and stuff but the big mantles still await all of them when their mentor has agedo ut the role or die or something like that, I hate that Barry and Wally are just running around both being called Flash, Barry should've never came back, and Bart should've been Flash by now.
@@unluckydreamer yup and a lot of people forget the the MCU is based on the ultimate comics Hell Samuel L Jackson's Nick fury is called Nick fury Jr no serious his name is Nick fury Jr.
I too can accept the mantle thing if the og dies, is temporarily out of commission or retires. It's just a preference I have with legacy characters having their own identity
The biggest problem with legacy characters is the companies keep shoving them down your throats when people don’t like them. Like it’s different if it’s a well liked character but when fans don’t like them and they keep shoving them down ur throat is where the problem lies.
Successful legacy characters
Nightwing, Batman beyond, Damian Wayne robin
Wally west flash
Kyle rayner green lantern
Miles morales Spider-Man
Maybe successful if written write
Sam Wilson captain America
X23 wolverine
Unsuccessful
She hulk
Iron heart
Jane foster Thor
I think it works best when a character has their own name. Like how Wally was Kid Flash for a long time, then became Flash when Barry died.
Miles didn’t earn the title of Spider-Man in my opinion. He should go by Kid Arachnid or something until he proves he’s worthy of being Spider-Man and that Peter is no longer in action.
I have to agree, Wally West was a true legacy character as he trained under a hero but also became his own hero with his own adventures away from his mentor before he filled his mentor role. With Miles it sort of worked when he was introduced in the Ultimate's universe, Peter had died and part of Miles arc was proving himself. Since he didn't have training they had to give him additional powers to stand up to Sidy's professional villains like invisibility & Electrical. But they also gave him compelling arcs one of which resulted in his mom dying. The problem is once he moved into the main universe it felt like everything he did was undone, his mom even came back to life. And yeah Miles has felt outplace, not helped by him only fighting Peter's foes and the writers only plan for him is to give him new powers. Currently he has vampire powers. They have improved in the recent year by giving him a few of his own villains but I agree it would've been better to call him Kid Arachnid. Much better than Marvel trying to make Stealthy his new name
Kid arachnid? 💀💀💀 bro he definitely earnt the name spiderman. Ultimate peter Parker AND 616 peter Parker told him he earnt it and he can keep the name, he has gone through ALOT, please read some miles before you comment
I really hate circular story telling there is literally bloat of characters that are just doing nothing but chilling
Appreciate the posters you have up in that room along with the back ground music. Great vid
thanks I just put some of my favorite media up on the wall
Immediately liked the video as soon as I heard the Money instrumental
One of my favorites
The thing is when it comes to Marvel and the idea of legacy characters it never was a prevalent concept as most never truly stuck around taking up the mantle for a significant amount of time for a generation to group with the legacy character being just the character unlike a character like Wally West being The Flash who was the only true Flash for 23 years before Barry Allen made his unnecessary return this is why legacy characters in Marvel just don't hit and a character like Miles Morales is really a pseudo-legacy character as he was replacement of Ultimate Spider-Man not the main 616 continuity Spider-Man who was still a live and active so he never really became Spider-Man but was just an Alternate Spider-Man and then you have characters that are less legacy characters and more rebranding like Vision, Human Torch, Ghost Rider and etc. which is also what I would say Barry Allen Flash and Hal Jordan Green Lantern actually are rather than Legacy characters. But when it comes to DC and the way they rebooted an brought characters back is simply why their legacy characters faulted as they literally had to restart from point A.
I agree with most things you said but although Miles doesn't replace 616 peter, a lot of people grew up with that 10 year ultimate Spider-Man run. I t was truly a revitalization of the character and breathed new life into his mythos, so ending it with his death and continuing the title with Miles as the new Spider-Man I think is a justifiable reason to say he is a legacy character. (P.S. 616 Spidey has sucked since the 90's only interesting story from him in the past 30 years has been when his arch enemy took control of his body)
really liked the p[oints you broyught up in this video, for one i reallyu agree with the jason todd take. that was probably your best take so far, as he is one of if not the greatest legacy character given what he is and what he stands for now. really like the tv in the background when we see your png. however, i do have gripes with the fact that the dvd symbol does not hit the corner once, and it doesnt even double bounce, i think we as a fanbase deserve that much. that is not much to ask but it does drive me insane when i wake up in the morning to eat cereal and watch a dreamer video and the dvd symbol only goes diagonal. other than that thjis was a great video and i am looking forward to more videos.
Legecy characters are pretty cool imo
I think the real reason is: a legacy character these days feel like a boot-leg copies. Marvel tries to market Miles Morales as the next Spider-Man, but he rarely (if ever) mentor by Spider-Man. Instead given more powers, fights the exact same enemies in the exact same way, and redoes stories. I want character to learn from the original. Have their own weaknesses and villains like Batman Beyond.
Current comic run by cody ziglar would prove your words otherwise
I don’t agree at all. Miles isn’t supposed to be trained by Peter because his whole entire character is built on the fact that he feels responsible for Peter‘s death. He never wanted to be a superhero. Which is why when he got his powers he didn’t do anything with them He’s only Spider-Man to honor Peters Legacy, Peter is to miles what Ben was to Peter just someone to give them that extra push THATS ALL!!! that’s why we don’t need Peter training miles.
@@АрсенийВасильев-и8ъ I lost all interest in Miles when I found out he was doing a Clone Sage. Then after I decide give him another shot, I learn marvel gave him a lightsaber, X-ray vision, turned him into a vampire that can survive sunlight. (Yes, I know they did that to all vampire, but it’s still unbelievable stupid.)
You honestly cannot convince me he isn’t a boot-leg copy at this point.
Plus, Marvel fans both sides of the argument nonstop. By claiming he’s spider-man in story, but marketing him as Miles Morales. I wish he be killed off, disconnect him from Spider-Man, OR marvel just retire Spider-Man so Miles can take the mantle. Cause I am sick to death of this toxic debate around Miles. Till Marvel makes a choice on the matter, I don’t care what major story arc comes around.
Miles was best back when he was in the ultimate universe
@@oneandonlyrj9519 I think it because Bendis knew what he was doing. Idea of a someone taking on the name of a fallen hero and trying find their own identity was Miles character. Unfortunately, since he came to 616 and his origin had to be changed, writers have no direction. So instead they toss random powers-up and situations his way. Sad, but that’s reality.
I never liked the concept and always hated passing of the torch stories. They make you love a character then have them replaced with a someone else you don’t care about and act like they’re that same person despite not being true. It always made me sad and angry whenever some thing like this happens in media
Preach
I disagree because although you have a point when it applies to people like ironheart or maybe jane foster we would lose out on characters like wally west and kyle rayner who I think are the best characters to carry their perspective mantles and they are nothing like they're predecessors
L take.
Nah, it gives a sense of continuity and legacy, which is what most superhero stories lack because nobody really dies. It works really well for DC since you get archetypes on the top level, and each subsequent level feels more relatable.
I never liked it as much with Marvel since their entire conceit is being relatable from the start. Being a superhero is more a curse, so it feels redundant and against character, unless you’re looking at an alternate future type of story.
good legacy stories make you care about the person the torch is being passed to before the torch is properly passed (or after, depends on the story) and acknowledge the fact this is a new person at the helm and explore the internal and external implications of that, great example of this is wally west of course or kamala khan.
and an example of the story taking advantage of the passing of the torch is in the original ultimate miles run, the really showed hpw hard he had to work to prove himself to just the average people of new york that he wasn’t some poser swinging around in a dead man’s suit, say what you will about that run and i certainly have my issues with it but they did a great job exploring all the implications and consequences of miles taking the mantle and used those to play into his own themes (with great power comes great expectations).
you’re not going to immediately care about the character the torch is being passed to and WILL miss the predecessor, the new blood will have to prove themselves to you as a reader and prove they can hold this mantle which i think is a cool parallel with the story itself. good writers know this and aren’t gonna write their story like you are supposed to immediately care about this character.
in the best case scenario they explore the role in a way that the predecessor couldn’t or through a different lens which gives opportunities for different kinds of stories or dynamics. i think the way miles is used to explore the idea of spider-man and what it means is really interesting, and when it is at it’s best miles resonates with me even more than peter. you may not feel the same about that specifically but i think to write off the very concept of passing of the torch stories completely for reasons that aren’t even universally valid is a bit close-minded.
personally for me my favorite legacy characters are wally west flash batman beyond terry McGinnis and spider-girl mayday parker and Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self and also miles Morales Spider-Man
Personally I put it on the publishers who either don't know how to sell the new characters or in the case of Marvel Films they've done an incredibly poor job of marketing their heroes to have value because the hardest they pushed are Captain America and Iron Man and the rest are more satellite IP in the Marvel Universe.
That's a pretty good video and it got me thinking, Does Flashpoint make it that Barry's Mom being dead a fixpoint in time?
There are three main problems with Marvel's legacy heroes.
1) Disrespecting the OG
2) Being pushed for acceptance
3) Keeping the names
Of the legacy heroes you mentioned you skipped Amadeus Cho as Hulk. This character was hated because he felt insulting as this random teen was able to get Hulk power with no anger issues or split personality. Then to as insult to injury Marvel killed off Bruce Banner in that terrible even Civil War 2 after they had depowered Bruce. Then their was Riri Willians who had the perfect setup. She could be trained by Tony's AI like a Batman Beyond situation, but no, instead Marvel has Riri act like a well trained competent hero with no need of training or help. Marvel tried hard to push these legacy's but it seemed like they tried too hard to make them better than the original which rubbed fans the wrong way. The reason Miles, Sam and even Bucky work is because they honor their predecessor and hold the same beliefs. Plus it helped that the latter two had history with Steve made them easy to accept.
Which leads to the second issue. When dick & Wally took over form their mentors their was a grace period form them to adjust to their new roles and for fans to as well. But with Marvel they once again rush things giving us no real build up with these new heroes and making us accept their new roles. I'll actually use two examples from DC. With Jon Kent they aged him up and just made him Superman, this was and still isn't sitting well with fans as they liked him as a kid as Superboy and it felt to rushed for him to take on his dad's mantle without us seeing his progress, especially since Conner Kent was more deserving to take the mantle first. Then their was Jace Fox as Batman which made no sense given the guy was inly in like two issues back in the 60's or 70's.
Then theirs the names. We have Steve Cap and Sam Cap but also Teen Cap from Avengers academy, plus its worse with the spiderman's because they operate in the same city. Basically their are now too many heroes around with the same name that i gets confusing. It's isn't excatly like that with the Flash as their have only been two at a time with the old one Jay then Barry and when he died it was just Jay & Wally, even with Barry back it makes no sense for Wally to change his name since he's had it for decades and more than earned it
Amazing video, great editing, and learned some more about these comics. 10/10 video keep going
Thanks a ton!
Great vid bro. Hopefully marvel can make their legacy characters more popular and liked among their audience and dc just continues to put their legacy characters in the spotlight more
@@ngossoobenge3817 hopefully
“The problem is YOU”
Indeed
Companies are making us burn out on the legacy characters at the same rate as the originals they were meant to replace
Batman Beyond was the it and cool factor
Static Shock was the it and cool factor
But WB is so dumb and stupid didn't realize the gems
They had in their pocket Dc need too pack there bags and leave
mmm okay okay
Ngl vlthis video cooked
@@danielobrien8561 thx means a lot
A good and nuanced take, man.
@@CatotheE appreciate it
blaming the general public for a company making profit based decisions. Its DC/Marvel's fault for prioritizing profit actually. prioritizing profit is bad!
Who is giving them profit 👁👄👁
Nah batman beyond hit hard
its the writers fault mostly Geoff Johns, he brought back Hal and Barry and then DC rebooted completely. which proved neither was necessary as Johns on Barry didnt do anything for the Flash and after his run we all saw all of Wally's accomplishments being placed on Barry. Johns could have definitely built up Kyle with a new Corps especially with his level of writing and storytelling. when we entered the regression era at DC we saw Young Justice become the Teen TItans losing all the new characters introduced in YJ, and the Titans became the Outsiders with only Nightwing and Roy making the jump to that book. as much as a lot of people wanted to see Dick be Batman we had seen that before so that's ALSO apart of the regression era. the regression era led us to the new52, that had some new stuff but was basically MORE regression with not great storytelling and recover how poorly the new52 was received DC was forced to regress even harder with the likes rebirth and Doomsday clock. they had relay on the likes of Watchman and Dark Knight return sequels to make up for the shit show they created.
legacy has NEVER been a thing for Marvel. it just doesn't work there, like they don't put in enough work. both Miles and Gwen have had Clone sagas. Miles a minimum carnage event. the level of storytelling when trying to introduce new characters tends not to work either like Bendis with Riri. trying to push Sam as the new Nova after Richard went through the Annihilation event that endeared him to fans just wasn't happening. despite the big push to make Carol a thing it just never happened and then we got civil war 2 which made her star plummet even more and Kamala was introduced when Marvel was trying to push the inhumans over the X-men. Then she was made the star of a meh Avengers game, that was basically hunting Inhumans like they were Mutants
i read Sam Wilson as Cap and what are somethings that he experienced? Wolf Cap, getting his very own falcon, he even did the Cap's hotline thing
much like miles it was something the OG did already
all the new characters introduced after Civil War and the 50 state initiative? killed off either during Secret Invasion of Avengers Arena after the graduated from Avengers Academy
it was the higher ups that decided to "no more mutants" away and got rid of Spider-man's marriage because they hated him being married and felt mutants were getting to big which i believe both decisions came from joe quesada.
hell thanks to the MCU after Shuri was growing into her own character she was regressed back to the Black Panther, i much preferred her upgrade
hell it was again Bendis who wouldnt let Hank Pym outgrow his past. prior to him both Johns and Buisek had saw Hank and Janet move past that time in their lives
personally Jane Foster Thor explanation was better in the movie then in the comic and at the time Marvel was replacing everybody so that killed my interest in Thor after Aaron hooked me with the Gor the God butcher arc.
its been the writers and editoral that wont let their universes grow not us the audience because for quite some time we were on board.
Bucky as Cap
Monica Rambau as Captain Marvel never seem to get protested as far as i know
War machine was his own thing
Miles had his own universe and continuity to play with
Batman Beyond the goat tho
W vid, very informative
Glad you think so!
The real reason why legacy heroes don't "hit the same" is because the mantle are given to more women and minorities then they used to. There is no denying it at this point. And I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the "circular storytelling" is the reason legacy in comics doesn't matter anymore as circular storytelling has ALWAYS been a thing in comics, it's very reason why comic book characters don't age.
There is no “their” way now
It’s just copy and HEY LISTEN!!
1 day an already got 1K views, u actually got motion
@@skinneybob4984 I don't know about that bob
fire🫡
hi
hi dreamer
Hello! Jordans World!
w vid
thx kev
Imo, miles is overrated af
As someone who’s mostly stuck with manga , comics fell to convoluted and feels like there’s never a real ending . To me a bit unsatisfying
yeah but it used to have some sense of canon up into the 00's but now everything has no stakes or staying power
AI animation is almost here for studios, things will change.
Fuck AI