That doritos bag story is hilarious. “doritos bag” was a convenient name for an actual faraday shielding bag. Somewhere someone who never heard of that term waited too long into the conversation to ask “do you mean a literal Doritos Bag”? And by then it would look too silly to ask. So the trade term doritos bag was, like in the game of telephone, telegraphed into the literal Doritos Bag. Nobody in the isolated group where that fiasco was introduced had ever stopped to ask “like seriously literally a Doritos bag?! Should we try and call that phone in the bag to see if that actually works?” Yeah, sometimes the king is really naked. 😂
Really interesting! Funny how trying to be extra cautious made them easier to spot. So I guess it's safer to use phones to communicate to a variety of people, making it not only harder to spot them using such obvious metadata patterns, but also giving some amount of deniability should it still happen ("I didn't know that ten of my hundred contacts were spies"). Also good to see that there are european countries who try to get to the bottom of such incidents and aren't shy of disclosing what they find. It feels terrible to hear about people abducted in your own free democratic country by foreign secret services. Even if they might be bad people. Fair trial should apply to everybody, no matter where they live or were born.
yep called being he grey man. Blend in. You don't want to stand out. By making lots of calls to various places and people you blend in more with the rest of the sheeple.
Fair trials apply to those who act fairly, when you're caught by one of them see if they treat you fairly. My father was a commissioner for a task force, in my country he was getting my glasses as a child and ended being pursuit by a bad guy. I was a kid who didn't do anything. People like that don't know right from wrong and shouldn't be given a choice, because if it is, it's gonna be one that involves you being lifeless or held captive. I 100% support what our governments are doing. Just because you don't care enough the delve to understand what's happening doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just ignorance on your end.
This was compelling. It is an excellent example of how metadata can be used against ANY target. This is why people need to care about how or even if this data is regulated and controlled. You took us step by step through the tools used, the data gathered and what it revealed, and finally how it was applied against a target in the real world. This is excellent journalism. As you said all of your source material is in the public domain, and anyone could recreate this outcome for themselves following the methods you laid out clearly. The fact that stories such as this don't wind up on the air at NBC is part of why there is distrust of "the media". Thank you for the reporting. I'm glad I stumbled on this and I am eager to follow up on how the state of metadata has evolved since you gave this talk in 2013.
@The Program nah, not necessarily. There's a bunch of research nerds in the humanities too that aren't naturals at public speaking. It's a learned skill for most people
"If any of you are compelled to go find George Purvis in Northern Virginia, I do not recommend knocking on his door. He does not take to it very well. He's a little sensitive about being exposed." That's how you know you're listening to a talk at "Black Hat" LOL. All those fucking corporate poseurs and feds sweating a tense butt stain in their chairs through their slacks.
This randomly popped up in my recommended videos (I've never watched any hacker/cybersecurity content on youtube before) and I'm absolutely convinced it's because I just watched a retrospective on Robin Thicke that discussed his disastrous performance with miley cyrus at the mtv music awards in...2013. Bow down to the algorithm!
I was thinking that oft mentioned loaf of bread was gonna somehow become a bigger part of the story, like we find out that that was in fact a Russian KGB agent disguised as a loaf of bread, but alas it was just a normal loaf of bread.
...Dude put his phone in a literal bag of Doritos. You could write that in a spy novel, and people would call bullshit. I guess reality IS stupider than fiction!
@@SwissMarksman You're right. The US has so much power over NATO countries that countries such as Italy are complete vassals. In fact it's ridiculous for Italy to not surveil terrorists but to harass US intel for having to watch EU people itself.
In international law, there is no such thing as extraordinary rendition. It is kidnapping and abduction, a serious felony, plain and simple. And unlike in the USA, kidnappers are prosecuted here in Europe.
@@GabrielM01 - Not an argument. This is about facts not about belief. If you believe go to church, not to youtube. PS: "Espionage" is about collecting information, not about collecting people.
Patrick Cameron The Intercept`s key funder is the owner of PayPal...They do some good work, they also have some pretty horrible output and people working there.
This is very interesting. I have various systems send me email alerts. There simple alerts about computers rebooting, secure room door access, firewall violations. I get a very good picture passed on a few emails.
What programs/set-up do you use for these incoming notifications? Id like to set up a system for a similar sort of thing - to collate several bits of unrelated data in an easily readable format that gives live updates
I am surprised that the CIA, being as well funded as it is, even uses regular phones that work on commercial cell grids at all. I would might've guessed that they had custom-engineered phones working on surreptitious networks run out of the embassy or something like that, something completely invisible to the regular cell towers. Maybe this episode has led to such a system now. (?)
you would be amazed at how shitty government equipment is even for three letter agencies. not specific toys you see on history channel or from research labs they fund or experimental stuff, just the average tools to get the job done. You'd balk at the amount of trust placed in WhatsApp overseas.
I hope they keep using consumer grade software/hardware because they'll overall improve the security for everyone. Sure, backdoors will be added, but they'll be added regardless.
@The Program - setup an encrypted, embassy based, private cell network for official diplomatic use and then use that signal to hide the traffic from encrypted packet radios?
I wonder if anybody ever told such a story on tracking wifi metadata, because it's still a goldmine and is available not only to police but basically to anyone with a budget for a medium antenna array.
And i thought an organisation like the CIA can just call the Italian inteligence agency and just tell them - We need this guy, grab his ass and fly him to DC asap. I mean those are 2 allied countries, are they not?
@@ВасилийПупкин-ж8и nope, they let terrorists escape, on purpose, because they don't care, and they don't mind that terrorists use their countries as safehouses, so long as they don't attack their own country.
omg, came here looking for someone else who noticed. a 4yr old video and this within 30 mins. it's really unfortunate, i'd like to hear the story but all I see/hear is him swallowing jawbreakers or something
@@JasperJanssen you're right. people are imperfect and should never work to improve themselves, for example working on public speaking knowing you'll be presenting at a major conference.
Imagine how AI can handle YOUR metadata and find everything about you without having to listen to your conversations and without technically having to break the law... the same effect for you as if it was breaking the law. The future of mankind lies within knowing what you are fighting for but not what you are fighting AGAINST. This is both terrifying and in a way optimistic.
This was a joint operation by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Italian Military Intelligence and Security Service (SISMI) And indeed some involved have service prison time for their actions.
Hello dear friends Today we get notified of the censorship of our channel by the new UA-cam Guidelines (who change every 6 months) because of "Content reusing without including substantial original commentary or educational value" This is a little bit tricky because these Guidelines wasn't there in 2013, 2014, 2015 and so on... It is abnormal to change the rules during a game ...even more before Christmas! Since 2013 we are trying to share the best Security Conference on our channel and we need your help to keep it up. As you already know I was fighting the disease since the last 2 years and it's difficult and without resource and support I wouldn't be able to keep up on this way. You can support us on Patreon if you find our work valuable. You can also express your dissatisfaction regarding our situation to UA-cam on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and wherever you can. to help us regain our rights. Your support in anyway will be truly appreciated Thanks guys for taking time reading me and stay tuned! Merry Christmas to you all and God bless you all! www.patreon.com/HackersOnBoard Bitcoin Wallet: 1NWM4upgKj8iF7zknzmnHG8Mm2pvAyTHqc
Same problem. Mail is scanned. Literally, most mail in the developed world goes through high volume scanners so there are images of the physical letters and packages traversing the system. It’s not even any sort of a secret. USPS and I’m sure other postal agencies will helpfully email you a daily digest of medial coming to your mailbox, with scans of the face of every thin piece of mail heading your way. So again there’s metadata and if you don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb you better had lots of penpals. The “clean phones” idea was stupid. The cleanest phone is one that calls most like any other random phone. Last thing you want is few calls to few numbers at narrow time slots.
Why do spies use phones at all in the first place? Wouldn't handheld encrypted radios be better? I guess the location could still be triangulated but it would be harder.
Fam at this point had they used even rotary phones from the 50's they'd have been better off. For an organization that has access to military frequencies, the capability to setup their own transmission equipment... This is a really messed up operation. They used their real names? They registered sims to the organization? Seems like a case of years of not much going wrong and getting lazy about opsec. Maybe having opsec teams that regularly audit ops and monitor practices in the field could reduce the risks of field supervisors playing fast and loose like this. Jeez. Humiliation city.
I did tried knocking on George Pervus door in california, he answered the door; George: "who are you?" Me: "CIA says hello" then walked out of there as fast as i can.
I didn't get it this time unfortunately but the next. I will just wishlist it for now since I bought other courses. It's more security and I took some ethical hacking courses that do teach that as well and I think that is fine for now until maybe next year.
Right. I'm sure you'd think the same if we Italians were to run a covert op kidnapping people in USA without any notice let alone approval of said country.
@@krakenmetzger so the mafia isn't a for-profit criminal organization, it actually works for the italian secret service, and most importantly, they're good guys. Great, thanks for opening my eyes.
That doritos bag story is hilarious. “doritos bag” was a convenient name for an actual faraday shielding bag. Somewhere someone who never heard of that term waited too long into the conversation to ask “do you mean a literal Doritos Bag”? And by then it would look too silly to ask. So the trade term doritos bag was, like in the game of telephone, telegraphed into the literal Doritos Bag. Nobody in the isolated group where that fiasco was introduced had ever stopped to ask “like seriously literally a Doritos bag?! Should we try and call that phone in the bag to see if that actually works?” Yeah, sometimes the king is really naked. 😂
Get this man a glass of water.
Hard to talk and swallow at the same time
Early and often
that fucking lip-smacking...
Him speaking like that ruined the entire video/story/lecture. Too bad.
Sounded like he had to burp.
Really interesting!
Funny how trying to be extra cautious made them easier to spot. So I guess it's safer to use phones to communicate to a variety of people, making it not only harder to spot them using such obvious metadata patterns, but also giving some amount of deniability should it still happen ("I didn't know that ten of my hundred contacts were spies").
Also good to see that there are european countries who try to get to the bottom of such incidents and aren't shy of disclosing what they find.
It feels terrible to hear about people abducted in your own free democratic country by foreign secret services. Even if they might be bad people.
Fair trial should apply to everybody, no matter where they live or were born.
Very well said my friend
yep called being he grey man. Blend in. You don't want to stand out. By making lots of calls to various places and people you blend in more with the rest of the sheeple.
Richard Driskill innocent until... someone says you’re not? Is that really the standard you want to apply to yourself, as well?
@@JasperJanssen Ah but he's *special.* He's a badass. He uses allcaps.
Fair trials apply to those who act fairly, when you're caught by one of them see if they treat you fairly. My father was a commissioner for a task force, in my country he was getting my glasses as a child and ended being pursuit by a bad guy. I was a kid who didn't do anything. People like that don't know right from wrong and shouldn't be given a choice, because if it is, it's gonna be one that involves you being lifeless or held captive. I 100% support what our governments are doing. Just because you don't care enough the delve to understand what's happening doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just ignorance on your end.
This was compelling. It is an excellent example of how metadata can be used against ANY target. This is why people need to care about how or even if this data is regulated and controlled. You took us step by step through the tools used, the data gathered and what it revealed, and finally how it was applied against a target in the real world. This is excellent journalism. As you said all of your source material is in the public domain, and anyone could recreate this outcome for themselves following the methods you laid out clearly. The fact that stories such as this don't wind up on the air at NBC is part of why there is distrust of "the media". Thank you for the reporting. I'm glad I stumbled on this and I am eager to follow up on how the state of metadata has evolved since you gave this talk in 2013.
@The Program talking to a room full of tech guys probably isn't something he's use to :)
@The Program nah, not necessarily. There's a bunch of research nerds in the humanities too that aren't naturals at public speaking. It's a learned skill for most people
"If any of you are compelled to go find George Purvis in Northern Virginia, I do not recommend knocking on his door. He does not take to it very well. He's a little sensitive about being exposed."
That's how you know you're listening to a talk at "Black Hat" LOL. All those fucking corporate poseurs and feds sweating a tense butt stain in their chairs through their slacks.
This randomly popped up in my recommended videos (I've never watched any hacker/cybersecurity content on youtube before) and I'm absolutely convinced it's because I just watched a retrospective on Robin Thicke that discussed his disastrous performance with miley cyrus at the mtv music awards in...2013.
Bow down to the algorithm!
I watched the Robin Thicke Train Wrecks by Todd in the Shadows
@@rodchavoya Me too!
So that's why...
The think you are jason bourn
@@dzidmail news makes use of that
Who did their homework?
fwd2.0
4:23 "a loaf of bread was walking down the street"
I was thinking that oft mentioned loaf of bread was gonna somehow become a bigger part of the story, like we find out that that was in fact a Russian KGB agent disguised as a loaf of bread, but alas it was just a normal loaf of bread.
@@UnknownSend3r was it though?
...Dude put his phone in a literal bag of Doritos.
You could write that in a spy novel, and people would call bullshit. I guess reality IS stupider than fiction!
And here I thought becoming a CIA agent required an immense level of intellect...
@@adriatical9016 You don't need to be intellectual if you don't have to fear from any type of consequences.
@@SwissMarksman or people that really just have nothing to lose perhaps
@@SwissMarksman You're right. The US has so much power over NATO countries that countries such as Italy are complete vassals. In fact it's ridiculous for Italy to not surveil terrorists but to harass US intel for having to watch EU people itself.
In international law, there is no such thing as extraordinary rendition.
It is kidnapping and abduction, a serious felony, plain and simple.
And unlike in the USA, kidnappers are prosecuted here in Europe.
thats espionage, other countrys do that, not only US
@@GabrielM01 - Ach really? When did the German BND last kidnap people? Hm?
@@thekaiser4333 when its done right no one know, you dint saw that happen, exactly you didnt saw, doesnt mean it dont happened
@@GabrielM01 - Not an argument. This is about facts not about belief. If you believe go to church, not to youtube.
PS: "Espionage" is about collecting information, not about collecting people.
@UCRaT9zZjqZ8AJpUHKk8NQEA collecting people can lead to collect information btw, iam not saying its right, but thats what it is
Great talk. This guy works for The Intercept now which seems like a good fit.
Patrick Cameron The Intercept`s key funder is the owner of PayPal...They do some good work, they also have some pretty horrible output and people working there.
@@user-ff8ww8bq9q Maybe the reason why it was mentioned a good fit was the name: the intercept ? :-)
that ending tho - please remember to swipe (to leave metadata)
John Smith was here.
That loaf of bread having legs and eyes and being able to use them is the most terrifying part of this story
Gotta love syntactic ambiguity!
Why were they not looking for Mossad?
Gee, I wonder... Maybe it's because the CIA is Mossad's mistress
Yep, sounds bout right.
Monika courty alia
Sounds a lot like Moniker Courrier alias. And that’s funny to me.
This is very interesting. I have various systems send me email alerts. There simple alerts about computers rebooting, secure room door access, firewall violations. I get a very good picture passed on a few emails.
What programs/set-up do you use for these incoming notifications? Id like to set up a system for a similar sort of thing - to collate several bits of unrelated data in an easily readable format that gives live updates
Interested in this if you can expand a bit more.
I am surprised that the CIA, being as well funded as it is, even uses regular phones that work on commercial cell grids at all. I would might've guessed that they had custom-engineered phones working on surreptitious networks run out of the embassy or something like that, something completely invisible to the regular cell towers. Maybe this episode has led to such a system now. (?)
you would be amazed at how shitty government equipment is even for three letter agencies. not specific toys you see on history channel or from research labs they fund or experimental stuff, just the average tools to get the job done. You'd balk at the amount of trust placed in WhatsApp overseas.
WhatsApp with end to end encryption mode is used often by the CIA.
I hope they keep using consumer grade software/hardware because they'll overall improve the security for everyone. Sure, backdoors will be added, but they'll be added regardless.
@@pilotavery signal muxh safer
@The Program - setup an encrypted, embassy based, private cell network for official diplomatic use and then use that signal to hide the traffic from encrypted packet radios?
I wonder if anybody ever told such a story on tracking wifi metadata, because it's still a goldmine and is available not only to police but basically to anyone with a budget for a medium antenna array.
DORITOS BAG LMFAO
that guy must have watched Enemy of the State (1998) and took it too seriously lmao
And i thought an organisation like the CIA can just call the Italian inteligence agency and just tell them - We need this guy, grab his ass and fly him to DC asap.
I mean those are 2 allied countries, are they not?
Not *that* allied. Italy isn’t one of the Five Eyes.
europeans have a history of letting terrorists escape when they're allowed to do things their own way
In Europe they actually realise that kidnapping and torturing people over mere suspicions is wrong
Read the history of the Achille Lauro and what the Italians and Egyptians did to aid the terrorists escape.
@@ВасилийПупкин-ж8и nope, they let terrorists escape, on purpose, because they don't care, and they don't mind that terrorists use their countries as safehouses, so long as they don't attack their own country.
Really interesting presentation but damn this poor guy seems so incredibly nervous, like maybe he has a phobia about public speaking or something.
There have been a lot worse at these Black Hat and Defcon things. I thought he did pretty well tbh
I think he did great. Hes a news journalist not a 'hacker' hes gonna be a bit nervous, not to mention the subject matter
Jeez. Overcritical much ?😂
Yeah why would he be nervous disclosing a failed operation by the CIA and naming names at a hacker conference after having his book banned?
This guy swallowing after every sentence makes watching this a chore.
omg, came here looking for someone else who noticed. a 4yr old video and this within 30 mins. it's really unfortunate, i'd like to hear the story but all I see/hear is him swallowing jawbreakers or something
That and him saying “ah” and “um” every 3 words is insufferable.
Outing the CIA on stage has that effect on people, I guess.
Alexey Penniez people are humans, how surprising.
@@JasperJanssen you're right. people are imperfect and should never work to improve themselves, for example working on public speaking knowing you'll be presenting at a major conference.
Very current presentation, yet it is 10 year old
Imagine how AI can handle YOUR metadata and find everything about you without having to listen to your conversations and without technically having to break the law... the same effect for you as if it was breaking the law. The future of mankind lies within knowing what you are fighting for but not what you are fighting AGAINST. This is both terrifying and in a way optimistic.
interesting story, but dude you need to stop swallowing mid-sentence...
First time speaker not used to shots maybe?
I was waiting for him to throw-up.
He puffed the devil's lettuce an hour before so I suspect he had cotton mouth.
This is hella spicy
actually starts at 1:37
Hilarious!
Is he burping nonstop or what is he up to?
I think he's just really nervous, and maybe has some sort of phobia about speaking in front if a crowd.
He's making me nervous just watching him.
Lee Debo you are probably right. It is a really entertaining and informative and if he can do a good speech like this he has no reason to be nervous.
15:45 fake news those are corn chips illuminati confirmed.
This was a joint operation by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Italian Military Intelligence and Security Service (SISMI)
And indeed some involved have service prison time for their actions.
RIP book
Didn't know very much in 2003?
Wet nose for you. Same question.
Hello dear friends
Today we get notified of the censorship of our channel by the new UA-cam Guidelines (who change every 6 months) because of "Content reusing without including substantial original commentary or educational value"
This is a little bit tricky because these Guidelines wasn't there in 2013, 2014, 2015 and so on...
It is abnormal to change the rules during a game
...even more before Christmas!
Since 2013 we are trying to share the best Security Conference on our channel and we need your help to keep it up.
As you already know I was fighting the disease since the last 2 years and it's difficult and without resource and support I wouldn't be able to keep up on this way.
You can support us on Patreon if you find our work valuable.
You can also express your dissatisfaction regarding our situation to UA-cam on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and wherever you can. to help us regain our rights.
Your support in anyway will be truly appreciated
Thanks guys for taking time reading me and stay tuned!
Merry Christmas to you all and God bless you all!
www.patreon.com/HackersOnBoard
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Harvall, is that a Brad thor reference to Scot Harvath?
Amazing talk
found the fed
so whats happning 6 year down the line
@jay fuckin thanks god, i was really worried for a min
OI Croatia isnt a 3rd world country!
He said 3rd country not 3rd world.
@@h2flow1 ah, yeah. Still I think its not!
We don't need to see your face/body - show the other details full screen.
The hunter becomes the hunted.
How tf do you get caught by using a cellphone? Just send letters via mail lmfaooo
Same problem. Mail is scanned. Literally, most mail in the developed world goes through high volume scanners so there are images of the physical letters and packages traversing the system. It’s not even any sort of a secret. USPS and I’m sure other postal agencies will helpfully email you a daily digest of medial coming to your mailbox, with scans of the face of every thin piece of mail heading your way. So again there’s metadata and if you don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb you better had lots of penpals. The “clean phones” idea was stupid. The cleanest phone is one that calls most like any other random phone. Last thing you want is few calls to few numbers at narrow time slots.
Yeah, and have them intercepted by the postal office. I punch those numbers into Analyst's Notebook, it makes a happy face.
oh how the turntables.
Why do spies use phones at all in the first place? Wouldn't handheld encrypted radios be better? I guess the location could still be triangulated but it would be harder.
I guess getting caught with encrypted radios is a give away that you are a spy, everyone has a cellphone.
@@nicolaspeigne1429 well, let's hope the spies dont get caught :P
Why not sat phones?
Fam at this point had they used even rotary phones from the 50's they'd have been better off. For an organization that has access to military frequencies, the capability to setup their own transmission equipment... This is a really messed up operation. They used their real names? They registered sims to the organization? Seems like a case of years of not much going wrong and getting lazy about opsec. Maybe having opsec teams that regularly audit ops and monitor practices in the field could reduce the risks of field supervisors playing fast and loose like this. Jeez. Humiliation city.
That's an amazing story!
wow just think of the slip ups prior to this
I did tried knocking on George Pervus door in california, he answered the door;
George: "who are you?"
Me: "CIA says hello" then walked out of there as fast as i can.
Thank you!
Anybody find this from a Udemy course?
Me :D
That's what's up. Did you decide to purchase it?
Yes I did, no regrets, its an amazing lesson!
I didn't get it this time unfortunately but the next. I will just wishlist it for now since I bought other courses. It's more security and I took some ethical hacking courses that do teach that as well and I think that is fine for now until maybe next year.
Me too
take a shot each time he says "derder"
4:54 5:36 5:38 5:45 6:14 8:12 8:28 8:44 8:48 9:01 9:14 9:50 10:40 10:54 13:21 21:20 22:14 23:21 24:54
Day-tah
It's moss code for: am bursting for the fcking toilet 😉
18:22
THIS GUY'S SWALLOWING HIS SPIT HABIT IS DRIVING ME FUCKING CRAZY. JUST FUCKING SPIT, WILL YA?
wow just think of the slip ups prior to this
2003 there are no cellphone towers in iraq! ..... this is fake story
lol
Using the term 'underground railroad' when describing the movement of jihadists is more than moderately disgusting.
Fuck off. Stop being so fragile.
who cares lol
So the underground camel riders Association ucra .?
so whats happning 6 year down the line
Croatia the 3rd country? The 3rd world country? Is this guy serious?
He said third-party, not third-world.
Yeah Croatia is a second world country
How is that "black hat"? They only talk about ethically OK things.
If you think this conference is about anything that isn't ethically OK, I've got some bad news for you, bro.
WTF! Why is he not telling their real names?!
The Kaiser why would he?
Cory Goodman It is very impolite to answer a question with a counter question. You should be ashamed of yourself.
The Kaiser it's a logical follow up. my little finger twas' raised whilst asking. i believe that alone is a magnitude more politeness than required.
Cory Goodman Fiddlesticks!
Aint no body watch this!
They do this type of work for a reason, and good reason. There names and photos should not have been disclosed by any means
Right. I'm sure you'd think the same if we Italians were to run a covert op kidnapping people in USA without any notice let alone approval of said country.
@@36424567254 you do, it's called the mafia
@@krakenmetzger so the mafia isn't a for-profit criminal organization, it actually works for the italian secret service, and most importantly, they're good guys. Great, thanks for opening my eyes.