so the specific case/number combination for dëk becoming "dëkassa," definitely made me blink for a moment as my brain tried to interpret it as though it were derived from a Romance language
I like Conlangs and the Refugium series the most. But I like that you, Bib, and other people enjoy the Alien Biosphere series. It's good both for the creator and for the channel.
23:05 As I see it, there's no overlap between two words for "from". There are (in some languages) three (or more) distinct prepositions, that can be translated to english "from": (russian as an example) Delative с ("down from", cf. спуститься с небес "come down from heaven"), Elative из (out of, from the insides of, cf. я из России "I am from Russia") and Ablative от (away from, cf. отойти от дома "move away from the house").
Whenever something comes out of or down from something, it is also going away from it. The complement of "from" is the starting point of a motion, or would be the starting point if the current motion were extrapolated far enough back in time. What I'm saying is that there is DEFINITELY an objective reason to group these concepts together, even if they're not exactly the same and can be (at least mostly) consistently distinguished between, kept separate, and marked by unrelated words in a language. That being said, I admit that the use of "from" to refer to a person's, species', etc. place of origin (like someone's nationality) doesn't really fit this pattern IF the person or whatever is currently in their place of origin, so that is an extension of the word's use in situations where the compliment has left it's place of origin. "From" also has some abstract meanings where the motion is metaphorical and the metaphor is often not obvious for the meaning, as is illustrated by the fact that Americans say "different from" while Brits say "different to", using opposite directions of metaphorical motion.
The two postpositions meaning "from" could be divided by register, with one being a formal version and the other being the informal. This is a great thing to employ to semantically separate synonyms, as register is an often-overlooked method of fleshing out a conlang. Not that this language needs to be made more complicated, but it's still something to think about.
Literally just looking at your channel and saw this posted 18 seconds ago. Always excited by these and alien biospheres and really just everything you upload is a joy to see. Really happy to catch one so quick!
Honestly man, I am in sheer envy of your creative and productive output. You're living the dream. Loved everything you made thus far. Refugium, conlangs, biosphere, all of it. You fantastical dynamo, bless.
The example from kinyarwanda with the applicative whose exact meaning depends on the object's animacy seems to be an instance of split ergativity: In the example of I die.CAUS sword, you could frame it as "sword" being the agent for the same verb where "man" is the patient, even though they're in the same syntactic slot. I don't know much about Kinyarwanda but at least historically I would guess ergativity was at play.
29:58 I've long thought that your choice of calling the same morphological case different names, which can also refer to other morphological cases, based on which time-period of the language is under consideration, was likely to lead to mistakes and confusion, and that some alternative labeling for the morphological cases, irrespective of their meanings, might be useful.
Me watching youtube shorts: "huh, feels like biblaridion hasn't uploaded a vid in ages, that bookmark's just there" Also me: "....nvm biblaridion uploaded 10 mins ago"
Alright, little bit off topic but with the biosphere project, with the carnivorous plants, what if some of the leaves became photoreceptive, kinda like how sunflowers turn to face the sun. This photoreception complicates to see passing shadows and a sort of nervous system is developed to process this information. This would allow the tendrils to strike at passing pray and it could be off to the races from there. Unlikely, yes, possible, also yes. If you happen to see this comment Biblaridion I would love to see your thoughts on this idea :) Have a wonderful day/night and make sure not to stress yourself out over these wonderful videos!
This is the first time I've watched through one of your conlang videos completely. I'll need to skim through all your previous videos now. I want to make my own conlangs for a setting, so the extra information would be helpful. I think reviewing fanmade conlangs would be an interesting watch as well. I think it would be very productive to give constructive criticism to viewers interested in constructing languages themselves based on their strengths and weaknesses
Anyone else here more of a refugium fan? I would LOVE a series (or even just a video) about your worldbuilding process. I think there’s a good audience for that as well.
You may want to use the genitive with the preposition that comes from leave (leave from) and maybe if paired with the locative it may serve as another but slightly different preposition for movement (leave to, you leave a place to g to another) You could also make some prepositions with the dative, for completeness. After binging them, the alien biosphere videos are definitely worth the wait. Keep up the good content!
25:01 "in Mandarin the standard word for BAD is "huài", which also means rotten" That's true in English too. Food goes "bad" if you leave it out too long. You can also call someone "rotten" to mean that their a morally bad person, though that's not the standard word for BAD nor the standard meaning of "rotten".
I find it interesting to make a rough but very direct gloss to better understand how the speakers of the language conceive it without all the excel tables So "Ostoos yaat mihünnö öyröt sadhë vanam dëkassa ilmüröq?" Is something like "The-tree's from_bird it-isn't? woman_she-made_house hated"
Interested to see if the conlang is going to be associated with either the Refugium or Alien Biospheres. For me, half the fun of making a conlang is applying it to a creative medium, so I'm eager to see how this is applied, even if it's just a basic set of sentences/phrases.
Рік тому
I really enjoy both your Conlang and Alien Biosphere series!
8:14 "in Kinyarwanda, where, apparently, the causative and the instrumental applicative are identical to each other" Well, they do basically mean the same thing. I think I have something like this in my conlang, but I'd have to look back on it. EDIT2: After watching on, I see now that they may not mean the same thing in intransitive sentences. EDIT1: The specifics in my conlang are this: In a situation where A causes B to V, A and B can be put in the following pairs of noun cases: A- B- (for intransitive V, probably not possible with many verbs for semantic reasons) A- B- (for intransitive V, should work with any intransitive verb, unless some change meaning when an ergative argument is introduced, like the opposite of English's "ergative verbs") A- B- (requires an absolutive patient C- of V) A- B- (for intransitive V, probably not possible with many verbs for semantic reasons) A- B- (requires an absolutive patient C- of V) A- B- (requires an absolutive patient C- of V) I think the choice has mixed connotations, but the main connotations are about the agency/intentionality of the nouns, like which which nouns agency is being most emphasized: The instrumental case carries a strong connotation of not being an intentional or willing agent, while the ergative pretty much mandatorily entails conscious agency. (An accidental or inanimate agent is put in the instrumental, making the verb look intransitive.) The agency of absolutive nouns is marked by a suffix on verb (at least on intransitive verbs; the suffix is -pa if the action is mandatory, and nothing otherwise), although this suffix also has a confusing set of other meanings (for one thing, it is also the anti-passive marker, though that is a related meaning, given that the ergative is mandatorily intentional), and this might mark a slightly different type of "intentionality" or "activeness" than the ergative case. The causative case, on it's own, carries no _strong_ connotations about whether the causation was intentional or not, which means it can be used for conscious causers, but backgrounds/de-emphasizes their agency as not the point of the sentence. It can also be used for completely inanimate or even abstract reasons (which is why it can also be called the purposive). The causative is also, interestingly, the benefactive (kind of similar to Spanish "para"), and I think is the main equivalent of the dative case. (There is no case I labelled "dative", except maybe a "formal dative", which is an adverbial use of the genitive case, which used to be used for recipients and maybe sometimes still is, and there is also an allative case.) This benefactive meaning of the causative originally marked the INTENDED benefactor, emphasizing the agency of another noun, but this connotation faded over time to include any actual benefactor, and can now also sort of indirectly emphasize the agency of the noun in the causative case, since those who benefit from events are likely to be among those causing them, and the benefactive case already happens to be identical to the causative case in this language. Actually, in the modern language, word order marks the difference between the "causative" and "benefactive" meanings, "causatives" going before the "main phrase" (which consists of the absolutive noun and the verb) and "benefactives" going after the "main phrase" (though this word order can be distorted, as either can be moved to the focus position, which is at the end of the clause, right before clause-final particles). In cases where both are possible, using the causative word order sometimes can sort of emphasize the agency of the causer more than the benefactive would. The following example is what I used to illustrate the importance of the word order difference. K’httaa whiçkáy-aaŋ. = CAUSATIVE-you he-die=REALIS.DYNAMIC = “He died because of you.” (probably not his intention, guilt probably implied) Whiçkáy k’httaa-ŋ. = he-die CAUSATIVE-you=REALIS.DYNAMIC = “He died for you.” (He knew what he was doing. No guilt implied.) (Alternatively “He died to your benefit.”) (The second "causative" is actually a benefactive, because it goes after the main verb.) I believe there are also other ways to express this idea. I used to have a causative suffix on verbs, but I think I've now changed this to a sort of "auxiliary verb" which is really a sentential complement verb (In both cases, the word/affix is "swif"): A- {B- V} swif A- {B- C-
I think that causative/applicative could be for transitive verbs only, so should be less problematic. Then say "I made my son eat soup" vs "I ate soup with a spoon" would be kinda "I took my son to eat soup" "I took a spoon to eat soup"
The "from" that is next to the "to/towards" can be an ablative construction, while the "to/towards" can be an allative construction. This frees up the other "from" to be something like an elative construction.
From can mean from a place, out of a thing, since a time, derived from a conceptual etc. It is a catchall term to mark a point of origin in basically any concievable semantic association. There is plent, of room to divide it into multiple concrete meanings.
ok. so alien biosphere is over what a shame. I was waiting for sentient life. eh. somethings can't be exactly how you wanted them. HOWEVER. that means you are gonna focus more in the refugium, right?
i like both alien biospheres and your conlaning videos
so the specific case/number combination for dëk becoming "dëkassa," definitely made me blink for a moment as my brain tried to interpret it as though it were derived from a Romance language
sounds very much like an american trying to pronounce "de casa" but messing it up
btw where are you from
@@aro4cinglife Surname looks Hungarian
@@8Hshan are you talking about the "æ"?
I was just obsessed with danish when I changed my username, I should probably change it :V
@@aro4cinglife Nah, about "Kolozsvari"
@@8Hshan OOOHHHHH ok yeah
I like Conlangs and the Refugium series the most. But I like that you, Bib, and other people enjoy the Alien Biosphere series. It's good both for the creator and for the channel.
23:05 As I see it, there's no overlap between two words for "from". There are (in some languages) three (or more) distinct prepositions, that can be translated to english "from": (russian as an example) Delative с ("down from", cf. спуститься с небес "come down from heaven"), Elative из (out of, from the insides of, cf. я из России "I am from Russia") and Ablative от (away from, cf. отойти от дома "move away from the house").
Whenever something comes out of or down from something, it is also going away from it. The complement of "from" is the starting point of a motion, or would be the starting point if the current motion were extrapolated far enough back in time. What I'm saying is that there is DEFINITELY an objective reason to group these concepts together, even if they're not exactly the same and can be (at least mostly) consistently distinguished between, kept separate, and marked by unrelated words in a language. That being said, I admit that the use of "from" to refer to a person's, species', etc. place of origin (like someone's nationality) doesn't really fit this pattern IF the person or whatever is currently in their place of origin, so that is an extension of the word's use in situations where the compliment has left it's place of origin. "From" also has some abstract meanings where the motion is metaphorical and the metaphor is often not obvious for the meaning, as is illustrated by the fact that Americans say "different from" while Brits say "different to", using opposite directions of metaphorical motion.
The two postpositions meaning "from" could be divided by register, with one being a formal version and the other being the informal. This is a great thing to employ to semantically separate synonyms, as register is an often-overlooked method of fleshing out a conlang. Not that this language needs to be made more complicated, but it's still something to think about.
Literally just looking at your channel and saw this posted 18 seconds ago. Always excited by these and alien biospheres and really just everything you upload is a joy to see.
Really happy to catch one so quick!
The sound of this conlang is astounding, the vibes of the phonology really are great
Honestly man, I am in sheer envy of your creative and productive output. You're living the dream. Loved everything you made thus far. Refugium, conlangs, biosphere, all of it. You fantastical dynamo, bless.
This came out on my birthday. Like on the minute, 00:00. That is really nice
Happy birthday!
The example from kinyarwanda with the applicative whose exact meaning depends on the object's animacy seems to be an instance of split ergativity: In the example of I die.CAUS sword, you could frame it as "sword" being the agent for the same verb where "man" is the patient, even though they're in the same syntactic slot.
I don't know much about Kinyarwanda but at least historically I would guess ergativity was at play.
29:58 I've long thought that your choice of calling the same morphological case different names, which can also refer to other morphological cases, based on which time-period of the language is under consideration, was likely to lead to mistakes and confusion, and that some alternative labeling for the morphological cases, irrespective of their meanings, might be useful.
I like both! Keep up the great work!
Me watching youtube shorts: "huh, feels like biblaridion hasn't uploaded a vid in ages, that bookmark's just there"
Also me: "....nvm biblaridion uploaded 10 mins ago"
I also enjoy both series, and I've been waiting for the extinction episode for a while now! Roll on episode 14!
Alright, little bit off topic but with the biosphere project, with the carnivorous plants, what if some of the leaves became photoreceptive, kinda like how sunflowers turn to face the sun. This photoreception complicates to see passing shadows and a sort of nervous system is developed to process this information. This would allow the tendrils to strike at passing pray and it could be off to the races from there. Unlikely, yes, possible, also yes. If you happen to see this comment Biblaridion I would love to see your thoughts on this idea :) Have a wonderful day/night and make sure not to stress yourself out over these wonderful videos!
This is the first time I've watched through one of your conlang videos completely. I'll need to skim through all your previous videos now. I want to make my own conlangs for a setting, so the extra information would be helpful. I think reviewing fanmade conlangs would be an interesting watch as well. I think it would be very productive to give constructive criticism to viewers interested in constructing languages themselves based on their strengths and weaknesses
Nevermind, that's Jan Misali's territory
Nevertheless, I still thoroughly enjoy your videos
Trö brü
Jan Misali has strayed away from reviewing conlangs
@@BryanLu0 Ah, I had no idea. I haven't watched him in a long while. I suppose that means the genre is free-game, then
Anyone else here more of a refugium fan? I would LOVE a series (or even just a video) about your worldbuilding process. I think there’s a good audience for that as well.
I just played Akinator and tried with you
What a coincidence
(He didn’t guess Bib)
You may want to use the genitive with the preposition that comes from leave (leave from) and maybe if paired with the locative it may serve as another but slightly different preposition for movement (leave to, you leave a place to g to another)
You could also make some prepositions with the dative, for completeness.
After binging them, the alien biosphere videos are definitely worth the wait. Keep up the good content!
God I love these so much
25:01 "in Mandarin the standard word for BAD is "huài", which also means rotten"
That's true in English too. Food goes "bad" if you leave it out too long. You can also call someone "rotten" to mean that their a morally bad person, though that's not the standard word for BAD nor the standard meaning of "rotten".
Yes, mandarin 壞 huài is "(someone) is bad" or "(something) is broken"
I find it interesting to make a rough but very direct gloss to better understand how the speakers of the language conceive it without all the excel tables
So "Ostoos yaat mihünnö öyröt sadhë vanam dëkassa ilmüröq?"
Is something like "The-tree's from_bird it-isn't? woman_she-made_house hated"
Interested to see if the conlang is going to be associated with either the Refugium or Alien Biospheres. For me, half the fun of making a conlang is applying it to a creative medium, so I'm eager to see how this is applied, even if it's just a basic set of sentences/phrases.
I really enjoy both your Conlang and Alien Biosphere series!
8:14 "in Kinyarwanda, where, apparently, the causative and the instrumental applicative are identical to each other"
Well, they do basically mean the same thing. I think I have something like this in my conlang, but I'd have to look back on it. EDIT2: After watching on, I see now that they may not mean the same thing in intransitive sentences.
EDIT1: The specifics in my conlang are this:
In a situation where A causes B to V, A and B can be put in the following pairs of noun cases:
A- B- (for intransitive V, probably not possible with many verbs for semantic reasons)
A- B- (for intransitive V, should work with any intransitive verb, unless some change meaning when an ergative argument is introduced, like the opposite of English's "ergative verbs")
A- B- (requires an absolutive patient C- of V)
A- B- (for intransitive V, probably not possible with many verbs for semantic reasons)
A- B- (requires an absolutive patient C- of V)
A- B- (requires an absolutive patient C- of V)
I think the choice has mixed connotations, but the main connotations are about the agency/intentionality of the nouns, like which which nouns agency is being most emphasized:
The instrumental case carries a strong connotation of not being an intentional or willing agent, while the ergative pretty much mandatorily entails conscious agency. (An accidental or inanimate agent is put in the instrumental, making the verb look intransitive.) The agency of absolutive nouns is marked by a suffix on verb (at least on intransitive verbs; the suffix is -pa if the action is mandatory, and nothing otherwise), although this suffix also has a confusing set of other meanings (for one thing, it is also the anti-passive marker, though that is a related meaning, given that the ergative is mandatorily intentional), and this might mark a slightly different type of "intentionality" or "activeness" than the ergative case.
The causative case, on it's own, carries no _strong_ connotations about whether the causation was intentional or not, which means it can be used for conscious causers, but backgrounds/de-emphasizes their agency as not the point of the sentence. It can also be used for completely inanimate or even abstract reasons (which is why it can also be called the purposive). The causative is also, interestingly, the benefactive (kind of similar to Spanish "para"), and I think is the main equivalent of the dative case. (There is no case I labelled "dative", except maybe a "formal dative", which is an adverbial use of the genitive case, which used to be used for recipients and maybe sometimes still is, and there is also an allative case.) This benefactive meaning of the causative originally marked the INTENDED benefactor, emphasizing the agency of another noun, but this connotation faded over time to include any actual benefactor, and can now also sort of indirectly emphasize the agency of the noun in the causative case, since those who benefit from events are likely to be among those causing them, and the benefactive case already happens to be identical to the causative case in this language. Actually, in the modern language, word order marks the difference between the "causative" and "benefactive" meanings, "causatives" going before the "main phrase" (which consists of the absolutive noun and the verb) and "benefactives" going after the "main phrase" (though this word order can be distorted, as either can be moved to the focus position, which is at the end of the clause, right before clause-final particles). In cases where both are possible, using the causative word order sometimes can sort of emphasize the agency of the causer more than the benefactive would. The following example is what I used to illustrate the importance of the word order difference.
K’httaa whiçkáy-aaŋ. = CAUSATIVE-you he-die=REALIS.DYNAMIC = “He died because of you.” (probably not his intention, guilt probably implied)
Whiçkáy k’httaa-ŋ. = he-die CAUSATIVE-you=REALIS.DYNAMIC = “He died for you.” (He knew what he was doing. No guilt implied.) (Alternatively “He died to your benefit.”)
(The second "causative" is actually a benefactive, because it goes after the main verb.)
I believe there are also other ways to express this idea. I used to have a causative suffix on verbs, but I think I've now changed this to a sort of "auxiliary verb" which is really a sentential complement verb (In both cases, the word/affix is "swif"):
A- {B- V} swif
A- {B- C-
Yes linguistics, I love these videos
I think that causative/applicative could be for transitive verbs only, so should be less problematic. Then say "I made my son eat soup" vs "I ate soup with a spoon" would be kinda "I took my son to eat soup" "I took a spoon to eat soup"
坏 can be used to mean bad, rotten, ill, broken, and so on
我吃坏了= eating made me ill
手机坏了= the phone is broken
The "from" that is next to the "to/towards" can be an ablative construction, while the "to/towards" can be an allative construction. This frees up the other "from" to be something like an elative construction.
From can mean from a place, out of a thing, since a time, derived from a conceptual etc. It is a catchall term to mark a point of origin in basically any concievable semantic association. There is plent, of room to divide it into multiple concrete meanings.
I know I’m late, but you can make the case for a benefactive coming from “to help” a la bāng in Mandarin.
It's funny how dëkassa (house-ACC) sounds like Spanish _de casa_ purely by coincidence
Conlanging content = best content
Hilariously, that version of the word for house you used sounds like "de casa" in Spanish lol
Do you think gaming studios need conlangers for their fantasy games?
make more feature focus videos
Woohoo
Hi
When you are going to continue the good short and to the point content?
ok.
so alien biosphere is over
what a shame. I was waiting for sentient life.
eh. somethings can't be exactly how you wanted them.
HOWEVER.
that means you are gonna focus more in the refugium, right?
There's one more episode, there is still time.
@@yeo4725 I know. In about 7 or 8 months we will know