i hope sunday does something to raise the archetype. jing yuan, argenti and dan heng are some of my favorite characters and i really want more team options for them
And then a month later they release a new hyper-carry support so strong that they powercreep both Bronya and Sparkle making the archetype Meta again, and then later robin 2.0 releases that powercreeps this new character, then a new break support, then another hypercarry support and so on and so forth. The reality is that, at the end of the day, the archetype that works the best is the one Mihoyo wants to work the best, they'll keeping making new powerful units that break the game after every patch 'cause what else are they supposed to do? The ideal scenario would be to make new units be adjacent to old ones, being on a similar strength level but with different niches that makes the player think when each unit is more suitable to use for a specific scenario, but that's clearly not what Mihoyo wants since they would make way less money that way.
@@dumbitchstella yeah lets see how long until DanIL E2 outdone MoC 12 like its need 6+ Cycles to clear ( usually takes 1-3 cycles which is very normal ) Maybe 4.0 or 5.0 ? I wonder too..
also the rise of aoe buffers come in, dual dps comps like jade/herta, etc just benefits much more. and hypercarry units can only deal dmg like twice per cycle with 134 speed but dual carry teams or a team where everyone contributes dmg, all of them contribute dmg but buff each other at the same time.
I probably only have 2 fully built DPS relic sets, while the rest of my units just keep stealing musketeer pieces from each other since thats the best I can do.
To be fair, I mostly said that comment as a joke. Though relic farming is a pain in the butt, it's really the only thing to do between patches, you know? I appreciate the shout-out, though!
The fall of hypercarry is just because they made these particular two dps with really weird scaling. But if we get Sunday with an ELEMENTAL DMG boost. It would potentially make these characters viable again.
They made the support characters so busted like Robin and Ruan mei, Robin is made for fua teams but she gives buffs to everyone and Ruan mei is made for super break teams but she also gives buffs to everyone. Dhil is still fine since he has sparkle but Jingliu and blade is really not that good now. The Powercreep is kinda insane.
A certian youtuber said in 1.6 that Ruan Mei is not worth pulling because the meta will always be about hypercarry, not dual dps teams. Oh I love how much wrong he was lmao.
the biggest powercreep for hypercarries has been firefly and break teams in general. thanks to firefly, 0 cycling MOC 12 became the norm. what do you do to counteract this? make future enemies tankier, but that resulted in other team comps like hypercarry starting to struggle as they can't brute force their way through content anymore.
I don't know what they can do to bring focus to the old DPS nor do I know if they want that. But one thing is certain: I will still have the Jingliu e6s6. I like the character and that's what matters.
I think the biggest reason is that Hypercarry Supports deal ZERO toughness damage. One thing the Break and FUA Teams have in common is that they chip down Toughness Bars really fast. Hypercarry teams need to make up for this weakness with Action Advance and Energy Battery spamming. Any future Hypercarry support without one or the other will have to make up for it by dealing toughness damage themselves or increasing Break Efficiency.
Oh ya and Sunday is really had Big Chance to be the next Best Hypercarry Support, base from skill leaks.. No way he plays with Break team or Acheron Feixiao Then Came Tingyun Nine tails rumoured as HMC Replacer Damn man.. How many pulls needed
Are Super Break teams not still Hypercarry? Sure the supports can do crazy damage due to everyone on the team stacking Break Effect, but you’re still playing them double Harmony.
In hypercarry team you funnel all your buff to 1 char that does 70-80% of your entire team damage where as break team buff are shared across all char to the point everyone in the team deal non negligible damage
@vigor9675 I'd personally argue no - it doesn't really matter if the unit is a harmony unit like the hmc, because if they can put out 100k superbreaks then I'd still consider them a dps in the team. This is a bit of a unrelatable example, but it illustates my point - think of like an e6 Lingsha or Robin - are they not dps at that point even though they're under the harmony/abundance archetype?
I’d say that hyper carry is when a single damage dealer is getting huge buffs from the team so that one damage dealer does most of the damage. Yes, HMC and Ruan Mei are both harmonies but HMC deals a lot of damage and so does Gallagher/Lingsha. Therefore, Super Break has the composition of Hypercarry but works as the whole team doing dps.
I feel like the reason the game has moved away from hypercarries is because of how basic and shallow HSR's gameplay is. Niches like Break, FuA, and DoT help alleviate this by spicing up the gameplay and giving the player different ways to approach the content (even if the end result is the same), whereas Hypercarries only exacerbate the problem + Hypercarries tend to have a very simple kit which makes it easy for them to suffer powercreep as soon as someone with higher numbers shows up (there's a reason why everyone uses "Seele < Blade < Jingliu < Dang Hang IL" as one of the main examples of powercreep in the game)
it being a gacha game, stripped away several of the nuances of good turnbased combat. each character in your average turn/based game has several moves/abilities and you can refine them, decide on which move is best for this specific turn and what playstyle/build for them you want to focus on. since hsr is a gacha game, where they want you to keep pulling for characters, they end up giving a character one central way to play, rather than a large move set which incentivises more decision-making and strategy when it comes to maximising your turns.
i feel like they could make like basic atk buffer, skill dmg buffer or ultimate dmg buffer (well jiaoqiu) which can help diversify a bit. but i think the core problem that hsr combat is too simple, i do find it fun but it does feel simple
@@ZoeilaJust the fact that they are real-time action games already makes them a thousand times more complex than HSR since you have elements like dodging, positioning, rotations, combos, etc ... In addition, both have something extra that adds a layer of complexity, Genshin with the Elemental Reactions and WuWa with the Intro and Outro skills while the most that HSR has are the Break Bars that were so irrelevant that they had to create Super-Break
Because only dealing damage isn't enough, Hoyo evolves to "you need to break the weakness bar" too. Breakhill can break enemy fast, Breakfly goes into supersaiyan mode and gain lots of speed and break eff, Acheron and Feixiao can colorless break. Because of relic farm also true, newer set can give you lots of CV to lower the build entry but only favorable to new char and old hypercarry can utilize em because their kit aren't there.
If we be real, I feel like hyper carry is what Acheron and FF’s teams are even if their focus isn’t crit damage, but also the fact that other teams have gotten a lot more support than hypercarry. Sparkle works well with every character and support in a hyper carry however dps units don’t have the focus on hyper carry with crit.
take this as a grain of salt but ive read a leak about 5* tingyun being a general purpose support like ruan mei and she still has her well known energy battery kit but for the whole team like huohuo
@@pally3370 3.0+ is bringing summons meta with Sunday (allegedly) being specialized hypercarry buffer for them. So yeah. As other comments have said, meta is whatever Mihoyo says will be meta. And you should 100% expect them to flip things periodically cuz they want to sell new characters after all.
- Higher Deff Bosses ( not so much, my danIL still hits like a truck at moc 12 ) More like its the point 2 - Higher HP Bosses ( While their Deff Relatively High, without ignore Deff / Deff Reduction, Old Hypercarry damage doesnt look good compare to Break Team even to Premium DoT now maybe ) -Higher Speed Bosses ( dont forget Bosses now hits hard and its Aoe with High Speed compare Feixiao to Phantylia its really So Big Gap between their difficulty, i mean Lord Ravager to Feixiao Imaginative Battle ?, try using Fuxuan as sustain you will laugh and quit middle fight ) - Less Hypercarry's Element weakness on bosses ( DanIL Jingliu is really need element weakness to put their top damage ) - Higher Toughness bar number ( Hoyo did Hypercarry meta dirty though, they have to make Break meta stronger than the old Conventional Hypercarry meta, money talk ) But yeah Im still using DanIL E2 Hypercarry in MoC 12 even purefiction.. Still good if the element match, but ofcourse purefiction with danIL will only Reach 11 stars, im just too lazy to do my best, i can said my Relics is where my luck goes. My next goal is E2S1 Acheron, saving estimated 280-300 pulls with rate on, will it be enough?
I cleared the current pure fiction with Dan E2 hypercarry, full 40k clear, on the first node that has no imaginary weakness. Been using him for every single pure fiction that had been released, never once failed to get full stars. He works just fine once he's E2. Of course relic luck and other characters matter more than just having Dan IL E2 for full clearing, but I'm just saying that it's totally possible to brute force full clear PF with him.
I think that "gap" isnt that much were just accustomed on harmony chars being completelly game breakin to function without a properlly invested build. They can work with easy to get subs such as a dps can be built with crit rate and nothing more (sparkle robin can make that atk/crit gap) but theres still those "high investment" support builds such as 4pc Quantum Robin, 4pc wind sparkle 160 spd, 4pc wind 177 spd tingyun. Its just that they work well without it
Fr, my firefly has like 200 break 160 speed meanwhile my yunli that i use for hypercarry has like 70 cr 80 cd. Its so hard to build crit dps’ compared to any other niche
Hypercarries can use atk% orbs with minimal loss, in fact for some it's actually more damage depending on your comp/character. DHIL for example uses an atk% orb because he has so much dmg% that atk% orb becomes better. If you use RM, you might actually benefit more from an atk% than an elemental orb. I also feel like people stress out on having perfect 4p sets for each character when it's usually a difference of 10% for the very best sets compared to a 2p+2p which means if you have cracked off-pieces, it can easily make up the small difference. Of course, ideally you have the 4p with cracked subs, but a rainbow build with good subs is more than enough for the character to start performing at a good enough level.
idk if it's just general greed but I don't know if why hoyo just refuse to buff characters when it is the cheapest way to breath new life into the game, people who have the old character will have something new to play with and potentially incentivize to pull for eidolons, and newer players will actually have a reason to pull for old character if that is the character they wish to start the game with.
It's not rocket science, the reason the old hypercarry units are out of meta is because they don't do enough damage anymore and are also not well suited to some of the new modes like PF and AS because they were designed in a time where MoC was all we had. Newer units like Acheron and Yunli still perform great in hypercarry team compositions for no reason other than the fact that they do more damage, toughness damage, and can handle a variety of different content equally well (you can also run them in non-hypercarry setups too, but that's besides the point). Someone like DHIL, by virtue of his kit, can only ever be a hyppercarry as he consumes too many resources in the form of SP to work with another DPS on the team. You just have to funnel as many buffs into him, feed him SP, and hope he does enough damage to kill the enemies in a timely manner. If he doesn't, the only thing you can do is just pump even more buffs into him until it's enough. But there are certain things that you can't do, such as making him good at PF where he just overkills the enemies because he doesn't have enough AoE in his kit and doesn't attack often enough to clear all the mobs that are spawning.
You can make DHIL good in PF by giving him E2. Unrealistic? For one, he's an old dps. Eidolon is practically required to allow him to compete with newer, shinier dps. Also, his E2 is so busted that his E0-E1 is made to be weaker in comparison, as pulling bait. It's like people saying that Acheron E0 play differently compared to Acheron E2. In the end it's just a decision problem. Would you prefer getting eidolons for older units to keep them relevant, or do you use the same amount of pulls to get base characters but newer, which are usually better designed to tackle the current problems? Both will solve the same problem, just a matter of personal preference.
@@NoiseRosemaker To be frank, I don't think that even DHIL's E2 is enough to make him truly good at clearing PF as it's just 1 extra turn which will translate into at most 3 extra kills. And Im not even comparing him to 2.x units in this case, I'm comparing him to Herta and Himeko who are made for PF.
@@OppaiSenpai5 I mean I've been using him to clear every single PF since PF was released. Even used him for the 1st node of current PF's 4th stage, which barely have imaginary weakness. To be fair, he's going with Sparkle, Robin, and Huohuo, so it's a premium team. To be fairer, if you're not aiming for 40k clear, you can definitely go with cheaper choices.
Theyre trying to make hypercarries bad because hypercarry teams mostly only vary in the dps slot while the harmonies and sustains are pretty consistent. With FuA for example you want to have two dps units which means they can sell you more dps units. Also they want you to move on from your Jinglius or DHILs by making them less relevant so you are "forced" to pull for newer units if you want to keep up with endgame conveniently.
Enemies just got tougher and you couldn't brute force them anymore with raw damage at least if your expectation is still a perfect 3-star clear. I mean you still can brute force but you'd need the NEW hypercarries like Acheron, not the 1.0 stuff.
If your 1.0 hypercarries were well built, well supported and capable of getting a 3 star clear in the endgame content last time, there's no reason the same can't still be achieved now... Unless the endgame goalpost was moved with increasing enemy HP.
ive been running hypercarry since version 1 i havent had any problems with it since. maybe people are just lazy to farm relics aka fua robbin low investment team(pretty much unga bunga auto)
Wdym i can get Nihility path effect (def ignore, res pen, etc) just by rolling Harmony unit eidolons instead of an actual nihility unit? say less On another note, if they never gonna punish frequent action centric team, you cant lose investing in fua lmao
I'm someone who took a very long break from the game so it's really funny to see how the meta has changed for everyone while Blade is still the premium dps in my account lmao
Not really. Sunday supposedly focuses on one character, while Robin focuses on buffing the entire party. Both have different niches, so neither pushes the other out.
Aren't Yunli and Acheron hypercarry unit with top tier spot in the meta ? It's not so much that hypercarry fell off, it's just that they got powercreeped by newer hypercarry.
If you think about it, Hypercarry is ultimately the most boring out of HSRs range of Architypes, sure it's nice putting three Harmonies with one Carry and getting insane Damage numbers, but running Muitiple DPS teams with Robin & my vertically Invested Sparkle are a lot more fun then just Simply running pure Hypercarry teams.
honestly im glad it fell because it was suppressing specialized teams. though it think theres some room for it to come back. i kinda regret pulling Jing Liu but she got me through the early days before Dot was fleshed out.
I love how essayists and TCs try so hard to avoid admitting that Robin is low effort, as well as the entire Harmony troupe. To the point we have gone full circle, and now meeting stat demands is a failure on Hypercarries, instead of just admitting the obviously overpowered and sheltered shitshow of an entire path and that being lenient to this degree is finally backfiring. You COULD just fix the rng... or you could make it a role's problem. What a choice people are making
@user-gi6hd5ol6f Hey, to be fair I do think that supports are a huge problem too(my last video was discussing this topic). This video was just another problem I saw. That said, supports being broken doesn't mean that the stat requirements hypercarries need to meet is less important, because they're the only unit really doing damage in their teams. Compared to a main & sub dps in fua, and effectively multiple dps in superbreak teams, the difference is noticeable.
The game path is just freaking thrash. Harmony can do so much shit, they able to do multiple things. In real turn based game and rpg, debuff is as important as buffing. It just become a shitshow in HSR lol
@@fl2ur DoT is the easiest example and probably the greatest to identify the core of the issue. Getting outrageously broken Harmony characters only works because they are outrageously low effort to both build and... recently, to play as well Jiaoqiu exposes this problem better than anybody else in the entire game. I would say Pela and Silver Wolf show it also, but it seemed less obvious at the time. For what Jiaoqiu does in a single debuff, is being comparatively competed and eventually overshadowed by a character who does 3-5 things in a single ability... let alone a kit And that is beyond stupid. Supports... namely, Harmony character's being overabundant is the centre of the issue The fact that Jiaoqiu vs Ruan Mei was even a competitive decision, shows this so obviously its almost painful to ignore. How in the hell, is a Nihility DoT character struggling to be a fundamental option for a DoT team over a Harmony character? Ruan Mei I barely give a pass, because she is the ONLY character that has a stat breakpoint. Even if its Break Effect But this absurdity has gone unnoticed for far too long. This foolishness needs to end now! Going back on topic I don't personally think this is a problem isolated or specific to Hypercarries. Hell, I think DoT suffers more than anything else But I think the reason why people think its a Hypercarry problem, is because Harmony causes the playstyle to run hot and cold. When you divert your entire power balance to one character, it feels like there is a silver lining. That being, easy to play Harmony characters that essentially Babysit your Hypercarry into being abusrdly strong... feels like a valid reward for your efforts But Robin took the problem to an absurd degree. Harmony, and Robin, has ZERO business dealing damage... albeit co-ordinated. She buffs DMG%, Atk%, Crit DMG% and Fua Crit DMG%. That is an insane arsenal of buffs... and now she does co-ord damage. Yeah, Hoyo needs to get their priorities straight. Its too rewarding for doing literally nothing. Hypercarries are not Falling at anything. They're still relevent, and they are readily able to clear any and everything in the game The problem is that, the core parts of a hypercarries' building blocks, are doing more than they need to, this problem is starting to proliferate into Abundance path. Healers are now fancying themselves as damage dealers because they are overtuned and have too many stats, or simply require less stats. We now have healers whose heals do not have a tangible stat to powerscale off, they require less, and do more. It is rewarding low effort playstyles, and it is mocking the foundation of the very role. Robin started this, it either stops now, or it won't stop at all!
@@user-gi6hd5ol6fit become " characters cant have downside now" lol. I'm afraid at what happen in 3.0. If they top crazy shit like this I believe it will get big drop in number of players
@@user-gi6hd5ol6f The sustain powercreep is what annoys me the most tbh, healing on turn based games is supposed to have a cost by either having a dedicated healer slot on your team, losing a turn to heal, having healing skills have long cooldowns or having limited healing spells/items. You shouldn't be able to passively sustain your team, as figuring out how to maintain your team alive is a fundamental part of teambulding, but HSR throws that complexity right into the garbage by making units that basically makes you immortal while also giving them DMG buffs.
Besides how newer DPSs deal more damage, can we talk about the Hypercarry characters' kit? Jingliu's self-buffs dilute the effect of Harmony characters' buffs, and Blade scales on HP and which only 1 4 star Abundance can buff (not to mention taking damage for his stacks). They're literally designed to be powercreeped by new DPS that can actually be buffed by future Harmony characters.
the way to fix hypercarry is actually comically simple. ruan mei made break busted because of amping toughness reduction, robin boosted follow ups particularly well and bronya boosts any speed focused character extremely well like boothill and seele. part of maximising a crit dps is pulling for their sig which will typically give you 32 crit value, so just make a support that gives you a load of crit rate and actually boosts the worth of crits in a superbreak way instead of just giving you the stat and you're good to go
Aside from Ruan Mei, v1.x characters are just dead at this point. I just replaced FuXuan with Gallagher in recent PF and my score didn't even drop. I slotted in Lingsha on Firefly team and score improved much more.
Hypercarries are in a great spot right now and the only reason why people think otherwise is because they aren’t braindead easy to use Even then, most DPSs have traces, relic sets, and lightcones give free CR/CD so building them isn’t anywhere near as hard as this video makes it out to be
So to sum up this video, always pull for supports of any kind and stay away from Hypercarry, unless you're Acheron (she was a mistake) due to how basic and shallow their mechanic is, thus easy to powercreep. DOT/ FUA/ Break are too niche and specific to powercreep, while Hypercarry is pure DBZ logic: give B a bigger number than A, then C a bigger number than B and so on. The next Hypercarry DPS is gonna do 1M damage with a poorly build, unless Acheron doesn’t do that already 😂😂😂.
the frick is pela doing there? Not that it would have changed the avg by all that much. but you contradicted yourself so bad it’s like the bicycle and stick meme
![So, uh... 𝔗𝔥𝔢 Herta is kinda cracked for this account [Honkai: Star Rail Erudition Only]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2kcbie5sbNE/mqdefault.jpg)
![So, uh... 𝔗𝔥𝔢 Herta is kinda cracked for this account [Honkai: Star Rail Erudition Only]](/img/tr.png)
We live in a robin era where everyone can be a dps making hypercarry look unimpressive nowadays
its amazing how they will nerf dps characters like feixiao, arlan, jiaoqiu on the beta but NEVER nerfs any support characters.
@@lillyie that's why I always value supports in turn based games
Overrating at its peak
@@lillyiethis is why you must pull ALL HARMONY UNITS
@@lillyie Feixiao got buffed. They made her good in pure fiction as well.
i hope sunday does something to raise the archetype. jing yuan, argenti and dan heng are some of my favorite characters and i really want more team options for them
Sunday will carry the hypercarry meta trust
the brother and sister carrying the meta
And then a month later they release a new hyper-carry support so strong that they powercreep both Bronya and Sparkle making the archetype Meta again, and then later robin 2.0 releases that powercreeps this new character, then a new break support, then another hypercarry support and so on and so forth.
The reality is that, at the end of the day, the archetype that works the best is the one Mihoyo wants to work the best, they'll keeping making new powerful units that break the game after every patch 'cause what else are they supposed to do? The ideal scenario would be to make new units be adjacent to old ones, being on a similar strength level but with different niches that makes the player think when each unit is more suitable to use for a specific scenario, but that's clearly not what Mihoyo wants since they would make way less money that way.
Pretty much. What they can do when they limit their own characters by only able to do one thing?
@@dumbitchstella yeah lets see how long until DanIL E2 outdone MoC 12 like its need 6+ Cycles to clear ( usually takes 1-3 cycles which is very normal )
Maybe 4.0 or 5.0 ? I wonder too..
i think genshin done a better job regarding powercreep, they still make a lot of money
Not just Bronya/Sparkle but a Hypercarry support that Powercreeps the hell out of Tingyun with Energy/Energy overflow related mechanics
also the rise of aoe buffers come in, dual dps comps like jade/herta, etc just benefits much more. and hypercarry units can only deal dmg like twice per cycle with 134 speed but dual carry teams or a team where everyone contributes dmg, all of them contribute dmg but buff each other at the same time.
My acheron is still using quantum and my feixiao is using duke. Im not lazy farmer, just have really bad luck in farming great stats.
Lmao some of my dps have rainbow pieces💀💀
I probably only have 2 fully built DPS relic sets, while the rest of my units just keep stealing musketeer pieces from each other since thats the best I can do.
lol, my feixiao is using quantum
I'm using Space Station for my Feixiao. Couldn't get a good Duran/Izumo set. 😥
Me with Rutilant Arena on Clara. At least she's E2 so she's gonna skill a bit more
To be fair, I mostly said that comment as a joke. Though relic farming is a pain in the butt, it's really the only thing to do between patches, you know?
I appreciate the shout-out, though!
@Shirker12 Thanks for returning for another video! And thanks for the idea regardless 😂
The fall of hypercarry is just because they made these particular two dps with really weird scaling. But if we get Sunday with an ELEMENTAL DMG boost. It would potentially make these characters viable again.
They made the support characters so busted like Robin and Ruan mei, Robin is made for fua teams but she gives buffs to everyone and Ruan mei is made for super break teams but she also gives buffs to everyone.
Dhil is still fine since he has sparkle but Jingliu and blade is really not that good now. The Powercreep is kinda insane.
Nah, the fall of hyper carry is when mihoyo realized they could get more money by releasing more damage dealer lol
A certian youtuber said in 1.6 that Ruan Mei is not worth pulling because the meta will always be about hypercarry, not dual dps teams. Oh I love how much wrong he was lmao.
who was that?
the biggest powercreep for hypercarries has been firefly and break teams in general. thanks to firefly, 0 cycling MOC 12 became the norm. what do you do to counteract this? make future enemies tankier, but that resulted in other team comps like hypercarry starting to struggle as they can't brute force their way through content anymore.
Superbreak was when shit truly got blown out the park,it feels like you have to constantly run her for any optimal runs because of her insane kit
I don't know what they can do to bring focus to the old DPS nor do I know if they want that. But one thing is certain: I will still have the Jingliu e6s6. I like the character and that's what matters.
I'm going for her E6S1, love her animation. I'm on E3 right now
I think the biggest reason is that Hypercarry Supports deal ZERO toughness damage.
One thing the Break and FUA Teams have in common is that they chip down Toughness Bars really fast.
Hypercarry teams need to make up for this weakness with Action Advance and Energy Battery spamming.
Any future Hypercarry support without one or the other will have to make up for it by dealing toughness damage themselves or increasing Break Efficiency.
Oh ya and Sunday is really had Big Chance to be the next Best Hypercarry Support, base from skill leaks.. No way he plays with Break team or Acheron Feixiao
Then Came Tingyun Nine tails rumoured as HMC Replacer
Damn man.. How many pulls needed
Are Super Break teams not still Hypercarry? Sure the supports can do crazy damage due to everyone on the team stacking Break Effect, but you’re still playing them double Harmony.
In hypercarry team you funnel all your buff to 1 char that does 70-80% of your entire team damage where as break team buff are shared across all char to the point everyone in the team deal non negligible damage
@vigor9675 I'd personally argue no - it doesn't really matter if the unit is a harmony unit like the hmc, because if they can put out 100k superbreaks then I'd still consider them a dps in the team.
This is a bit of a unrelatable example, but it illustates my point - think of like an e6 Lingsha or Robin - are they not dps at that point even though they're under the harmony/abundance archetype?
I’d say that hyper carry is when a single damage dealer is getting huge buffs from the team so that one damage dealer does most of the damage. Yes, HMC and Ruan Mei are both harmonies but HMC deals a lot of damage and so does Gallagher/Lingsha. Therefore, Super Break has the composition of Hypercarry but works as the whole team doing dps.
i wish dot gets a huge buff because i love the idea and team building of it , also hoping to see my boy blade bounce back
I feel like the reason the game has moved away from hypercarries is because of how basic and shallow HSR's gameplay is.
Niches like Break, FuA, and DoT help alleviate this by spicing up the gameplay and giving the player different ways to approach the content (even if the end result is the same), whereas Hypercarries only exacerbate the problem
+ Hypercarries tend to have a very simple kit which makes it easy for them to suffer powercreep as soon as someone with higher numbers shows up (there's a reason why everyone uses "Seele < Blade < Jingliu < Dang Hang IL" as one of the main examples of powercreep in the game)
it being a gacha game, stripped away several of the nuances of good turnbased combat. each character in your average turn/based game has several moves/abilities and you can refine them, decide on which move is best for this specific turn and what playstyle/build for them you want to focus on. since hsr is a gacha game, where they want you to keep pulling for characters, they end up giving a character one central way to play, rather than a large move set which incentivises more decision-making and strategy when it comes to maximising your turns.
i feel like they could make like basic atk buffer, skill dmg buffer or ultimate dmg buffer (well jiaoqiu) which can help diversify a bit. but i think the core problem that hsr combat is too simple, i do find it fun but it does feel simple
i think you mean because of how basic and shallow hypercarry is. games like wuwa and genshin are way more shallow
@@ZoeilaJust the fact that they are real-time action games already makes them a thousand times more complex than HSR since you have elements like dodging, positioning, rotations, combos, etc
...
In addition, both have something extra that adds a layer of complexity, Genshin with the Elemental Reactions and WuWa with the Intro and Outro skills while the most that HSR has are the Break Bars that were so irrelevant that they had to create Super-Break
@@Truck-kun11 nope that actually makes them less complex those games dont even have dot builds really
Because only dealing damage isn't enough, Hoyo evolves to "you need to break the weakness bar" too. Breakhill can break enemy fast, Breakfly goes into supersaiyan mode and gain lots of speed and break eff, Acheron and Feixiao can colorless break.
Because of relic farm also true, newer set can give you lots of CV to lower the build entry but only favorable to new char and old hypercarry can utilize em because their kit aren't there.
If we be real, I feel like hyper carry is what Acheron and FF’s teams are even if their focus isn’t crit damage, but also the fact that other teams have gotten a lot more support than hypercarry. Sparkle works well with every character and support in a hyper carry however dps units don’t have the focus on hyper carry with crit.
take this as a grain of salt but ive read a leak about 5* tingyun being a general purpose support like ruan mei and she still has her well known energy battery kit but for the whole team like huohuo
Just gonna drop this here:
As a certified “everyone is a DPS” team enjoyer, this video is gonna age like milk.
Also I promise I’m not trying to be a hater I’m just heralding the upcoming meta
@@naw613 whats the upcoming meta?
@@pally3370 3.0+ is bringing summons meta with Sunday (allegedly) being specialized hypercarry buffer for them. So yeah. As other comments have said, meta is whatever Mihoyo says will be meta. And you should 100% expect them to flip things periodically cuz they want to sell new characters after all.
@@pally3370summon meta would be interesting
- Higher Deff Bosses ( not so much, my danIL still hits like a truck at moc 12 ) More like its the point 2
- Higher HP Bosses ( While their Deff Relatively High, without ignore Deff / Deff Reduction, Old Hypercarry damage doesnt look good compare to Break Team even to Premium DoT now maybe )
-Higher Speed Bosses ( dont forget Bosses now hits hard and its Aoe with High Speed compare Feixiao to Phantylia its really So Big Gap between their difficulty, i mean Lord Ravager to Feixiao Imaginative Battle ?, try using Fuxuan as sustain you will laugh and quit middle fight )
- Less Hypercarry's Element weakness on bosses ( DanIL Jingliu is really need element weakness to put their top damage )
- Higher Toughness bar number ( Hoyo did Hypercarry meta dirty though, they have to make Break meta stronger than the old Conventional Hypercarry meta, money talk )
But yeah Im still using DanIL E2 Hypercarry in MoC 12 even purefiction.. Still good if the element match, but ofcourse purefiction with danIL will only Reach 11 stars, im just too lazy to do my best, i can said my Relics is where my luck goes.
My next goal is E2S1 Acheron, saving estimated 280-300 pulls with rate on, will it be enough?
I cleared the current pure fiction with Dan E2 hypercarry, full 40k clear, on the first node that has no imaginary weakness. Been using him for every single pure fiction that had been released, never once failed to get full stars. He works just fine once he's E2.
Of course relic luck and other characters matter more than just having Dan IL E2 for full clearing, but I'm just saying that it's totally possible to brute force full clear PF with him.
I think that "gap" isnt that much were just accustomed on harmony chars being completelly game breakin to function without a properlly invested build. They can work with easy to get subs such as a dps can be built with crit rate and nothing more (sparkle robin can make that atk/crit gap) but theres still those "high investment" support builds such as 4pc Quantum Robin, 4pc wind sparkle 160 spd, 4pc wind 177 spd tingyun. Its just that they work well without it
Sunday will make Hypercarry great.
I think Sunday will bring the hypercarry meta up
Fr, my firefly has like 200 break 160 speed meanwhile my yunli that i use for hypercarry has like 70 cr 80 cd. Its so hard to build crit dps’ compared to any other niche
That's REALLY low lol
@ yeah, firefly built like shit can do nuclear fusion, crit dpses after months of being in the mines do 0 damage until you get god pieces
@@lordradiance2530 nah. My pieces are mediocre as well. But I have yunli at e2
Hypercarries can use atk% orbs with minimal loss, in fact for some it's actually more damage depending on your comp/character. DHIL for example uses an atk% orb because he has so much dmg% that atk% orb becomes better. If you use RM, you might actually benefit more from an atk% than an elemental orb.
I also feel like people stress out on having perfect 4p sets for each character when it's usually a difference of 10% for the very best sets compared to a 2p+2p which means if you have cracked off-pieces, it can easily make up the small difference. Of course, ideally you have the 4p with cracked subs, but a rainbow build with good subs is more than enough for the character to start performing at a good enough level.
idk if it's just general greed but I don't know if why hoyo just refuse to buff characters when it is the cheapest way to breath new life into the game, people who have the old character will have something new to play with and potentially incentivize to pull for eidolons, and newer players will actually have a reason to pull for old character if that is the character they wish to start the game with.
It's not rocket science, the reason the old hypercarry units are out of meta is because they don't do enough damage anymore and are also not well suited to some of the new modes like PF and AS because they were designed in a time where MoC was all we had.
Newer units like Acheron and Yunli still perform great in hypercarry team compositions for no reason other than the fact that they do more damage, toughness damage, and can handle a variety of different content equally well (you can also run them in non-hypercarry setups too, but that's besides the point).
Someone like DHIL, by virtue of his kit, can only ever be a hyppercarry as he consumes too many resources in the form of SP to work with another DPS on the team. You just have to funnel as many buffs into him, feed him SP, and hope he does enough damage to kill the enemies in a timely manner. If he doesn't, the only thing you can do is just pump even more buffs into him until it's enough. But there are certain things that you can't do, such as making him good at PF where he just overkills the enemies because he doesn't have enough AoE in his kit and doesn't attack often enough to clear all the mobs that are spawning.
You can make DHIL good in PF by giving him E2.
Unrealistic? For one, he's an old dps. Eidolon is practically required to allow him to compete with newer, shinier dps. Also, his E2 is so busted that his E0-E1 is made to be weaker in comparison, as pulling bait. It's like people saying that Acheron E0 play differently compared to Acheron E2.
In the end it's just a decision problem. Would you prefer getting eidolons for older units to keep them relevant, or do you use the same amount of pulls to get base characters but newer, which are usually better designed to tackle the current problems? Both will solve the same problem, just a matter of personal preference.
@@NoiseRosemaker To be frank, I don't think that even DHIL's E2 is enough to make him truly good at clearing PF as it's just 1 extra turn which will translate into at most 3 extra kills. And Im not even comparing him to 2.x units in this case, I'm comparing him to Herta and Himeko who are made for PF.
@@OppaiSenpai5 I mean I've been using him to clear every single PF since PF was released. Even used him for the 1st node of current PF's 4th stage, which barely have imaginary weakness. To be fair, he's going with Sparkle, Robin, and Huohuo, so it's a premium team. To be fairer, if you're not aiming for 40k clear, you can definitely go with cheaper choices.
@@OppaiSenpai5I use ERR with E2 for PF, always get near if not 40k all the time. It definitely helps
@@OppaiSenpai5I use ERR with E2 for PF, always get near if not 40k all the time. It definitely helps
Theyre trying to make hypercarries bad because hypercarry teams mostly only vary in the dps slot while the harmonies and sustains are pretty consistent. With FuA for example you want to have two dps units which means they can sell you more dps units. Also they want you to move on from your Jinglius or DHILs by making them less relevant so you are "forced" to pull for newer units if you want to keep up with endgame conveniently.
Sunday drip in a few days he will revive hypercarry
WELCOME TO MY WOOORLD~
So what I'm hearing is that we should make supports more difficult to build
Hoyo is just looking for new ways to indirectly powercreep old units through new mechanics
Enemies just got tougher and you couldn't brute force them anymore with raw damage at least if your expectation is still a perfect 3-star clear.
I mean you still can brute force but you'd need the NEW hypercarries like Acheron, not the 1.0 stuff.
If your 1.0 hypercarries were well built, well supported and capable of getting a 3 star clear in the endgame content last time, there's no reason the same can't still be achieved now... Unless the endgame goalpost was moved with increasing enemy HP.
ive been running hypercarry since version 1 i havent had any problems with it since. maybe people are just lazy to farm relics aka fua robbin low investment team(pretty much unga bunga auto)
robin and aven literally the greatest units in the game
Im still burning through all content with my DHIL lol
Wdym i can get Nihility path effect (def ignore, res pen, etc) just by rolling Harmony unit eidolons instead of an actual nihility unit? say less
On another note, if they never gonna punish frequent action centric team, you cant lose investing in fua lmao
watch this video age like milk lmao
I'm someone who took a very long break from the game so it's really funny to see how the meta has changed for everyone while Blade is still the premium dps in my account lmao
Hear me out Sunday is powercrept Robin
Not really. Sunday supposedly focuses on one character, while Robin focuses on buffing the entire party. Both have different niches, so neither pushes the other out.
Im deaf
They busted everyone with HTB and Robin
off topic
but you only need 3k attack for robin???
*looks at 5k attack robin*
Aren't Yunli and Acheron hypercarry unit with top tier spot in the meta ? It's not so much that hypercarry fell off, it's just that they got powercreeped by newer hypercarry.
If you think about it, Hypercarry is ultimately the most boring out of HSRs range of Architypes, sure it's nice putting three Harmonies with one Carry and getting insane Damage numbers, but running Muitiple DPS teams with Robin & my vertically Invested Sparkle are a lot more fun then just Simply running pure Hypercarry teams.
bladee RERUN PLEASE I NEED BLADE IDC ANYMORE IM LOSING MY MIND I NEED HIM
honestly im glad it fell because it was suppressing specialized teams. though it think theres some room for it to come back. i kinda regret pulling Jing Liu but she got me through the early days before Dot was fleshed out.
bro jing liu still helps me clear content if the enemies are ice broken ,I have herta shop lc and decent artifacts on her
I love how essayists and TCs try so hard to avoid admitting that Robin is low effort, as well as the entire Harmony troupe.
To the point we have gone full circle, and now meeting stat demands is a failure on Hypercarries, instead of just admitting the obviously overpowered and sheltered shitshow of an entire path and that being lenient to this degree is finally backfiring.
You COULD just fix the rng... or you could make it a role's problem. What a choice people are making
@user-gi6hd5ol6f Hey, to be fair I do think that supports are a huge problem too(my last video was discussing this topic). This video was just another problem I saw.
That said, supports being broken doesn't mean that the stat requirements hypercarries need to meet is less important, because they're the only unit really doing damage in their teams. Compared to a main & sub dps in fua, and effectively multiple dps in superbreak teams, the difference is noticeable.
The game path is just freaking thrash. Harmony can do so much shit, they able to do multiple things. In real turn based game and rpg, debuff is as important as buffing. It just become a shitshow in HSR lol
@@fl2ur DoT is the easiest example and probably the greatest to identify the core of the issue.
Getting outrageously broken Harmony characters only works because they are outrageously low effort to both build and... recently, to play as well
Jiaoqiu exposes this problem better than anybody else in the entire game. I would say Pela and Silver Wolf show it also, but it seemed less obvious at the time.
For what Jiaoqiu does in a single debuff, is being comparatively competed and eventually overshadowed by a character who does 3-5 things in a single ability... let alone a kit
And that is beyond stupid.
Supports... namely, Harmony character's being overabundant is the centre of the issue
The fact that Jiaoqiu vs Ruan Mei was even a competitive decision, shows this so obviously its almost painful to ignore.
How in the hell, is a Nihility DoT character struggling to be a fundamental option for a DoT team over a Harmony character?
Ruan Mei I barely give a pass, because she is the ONLY character that has a stat breakpoint. Even if its Break Effect
But this absurdity has gone unnoticed for far too long. This foolishness needs to end now!
Going back on topic
I don't personally think this is a problem isolated or specific to Hypercarries. Hell, I think DoT suffers more than anything else
But I think the reason why people think its a Hypercarry problem, is because Harmony causes the playstyle to run hot and cold.
When you divert your entire power balance to one character, it feels like there is a silver lining. That being, easy to play Harmony characters that essentially Babysit your Hypercarry into being abusrdly strong... feels like a valid reward for your efforts
But Robin took the problem to an absurd degree. Harmony, and Robin, has ZERO business dealing damage... albeit co-ordinated.
She buffs DMG%, Atk%, Crit DMG% and Fua Crit DMG%. That is an insane arsenal of buffs... and now she does co-ord damage.
Yeah, Hoyo needs to get their priorities straight. Its too rewarding for doing literally nothing.
Hypercarries are not Falling at anything. They're still relevent, and they are readily able to clear any and everything in the game
The problem is that, the core parts of a hypercarries' building blocks, are doing more than they need to, this problem is starting to proliferate into Abundance path.
Healers are now fancying themselves as damage dealers because they are overtuned and have too many stats, or simply require less stats.
We now have healers whose heals do not have a tangible stat to powerscale off, they require less, and do more. It is rewarding low effort playstyles, and it is mocking the foundation of the very role.
Robin started this, it either stops now, or it won't stop at all!
@@user-gi6hd5ol6fit become " characters cant have downside now" lol. I'm afraid at what happen in 3.0. If they top crazy shit like this I believe it will get big drop in number of players
@@user-gi6hd5ol6f The sustain powercreep is what annoys me the most tbh, healing on turn based games is supposed to have a cost by either having a dedicated healer slot on your team, losing a turn to heal, having healing skills have long cooldowns or having limited healing spells/items. You shouldn't be able to passively sustain your team, as figuring out how to maintain your team alive is a fundamental part of teambulding, but HSR throws that complexity right into the garbage by making units that basically makes you immortal while also giving them DMG buffs.
the only hypercarry that actually fell off is jingliu . dhil is still top meta
Dps just sell better so hoyo promotes using 2 of them in the same team
It’s dAHh hUng the game pronounces hus name pleeeeease say it right
Besides how newer DPSs deal more damage, can we talk about the Hypercarry characters' kit?
Jingliu's self-buffs dilute the effect of Harmony characters' buffs, and Blade scales on HP and which only 1 4 star Abundance can buff (not to mention taking damage for his stacks).
They're literally designed to be powercreeped by new DPS that can actually be buffed by future Harmony characters.
the way to fix hypercarry is actually comically simple. ruan mei made break busted because of amping toughness reduction, robin boosted follow ups particularly well and bronya boosts any speed focused character extremely well like boothill and seele.
part of maximising a crit dps is pulling for their sig which will typically give you 32 crit value, so just make a support that gives you a load of crit rate and actually boosts the worth of crits in a superbreak way instead of just giving you the stat and you're good to go
Aside from Ruan Mei, v1.x characters are just dead at this point.
I just replaced FuXuan with Gallagher in recent PF and my score didn't even drop.
I slotted in Lingsha on Firefly team and score improved much more.
Just use break bro
Hypercarries are in a great spot right now and the only reason why people think otherwise is because they aren’t braindead easy to use
Even then, most DPSs have traces, relic sets, and lightcones give free CR/CD so building them isn’t anywhere near as hard as this video makes it out to be
nothing went wrong. Its all according to the gameplan. In with the new out with the old.
People forgetting its a powercreep predatory gacha game.
This video age like milk if you know the leaks haha
4 more days till the drip marketing ❤o❤
My Dan heng will be relevant again, tier 0.5 with the release of him ❤❤
Mono imaginary men except sparkle 😂
I don't get it, what leaks?
@@rust5427what leaks bro?
@@crusaderdalek3527 Sunday is releasing in 2.7 and will be a hypercarry support
Shooorly the leaks kit stay same 😂
hoyo realized this and put sparkle in the game where she belongs 😢…hoping they release seele alter for 3.0
So to sum up this video, always pull for supports of any kind and stay away from Hypercarry, unless you're Acheron (she was a mistake) due to how basic and shallow their mechanic is, thus easy to powercreep.
DOT/ FUA/ Break are too niche and specific to powercreep, while Hypercarry is pure DBZ logic: give B a bigger number than A, then C a bigger number than B and so on.
The next Hypercarry DPS is gonna do 1M damage with a poorly build, unless Acheron doesn’t do that already 😂😂😂.
the frick is pela doing there? Not that it would have changed the avg by all that much. but you contradicted yourself so bad it’s like the bicycle and stick meme