The whole reason we have industry standards. What a pain. Great content thank you. I'd be interested to know what brands and price points of batteries you recommend. I don't like going cheap and buying junk, but some of the top brand names are too expensive for lighting use.
Seems mind boggling to me that something like this wouldn't have a standard set before going out to the masses, but I'm damn glad you brought it up! Thanks for sharing and giving us some good options to work through it.
One would think something as serious as proper voltage and pin management would have been standardized. The risks you describe are a bit frightening. I appreciate the solutions, but we shouldn't have to be modifying gear to use it. Chances are, people will unknowingly find out the hard way as you have. Thank you for making this video to alert us about the risks. I migrated to V-mount batteries years ago, as at the time they were somewhat less expensive than Gold mount batteries and charges. Over the years I have experienced V-mount batteries that would simply not fit onto some battery plates, cameras and other devices. It seems that the V-mount bracket dimensions are very exact, and different brands of batteries can vary in how well they fit. Others have mentioned this issue to me, too.
Thanks Andrew. Lack of industry standards are all part of having soo many different manufacturers making good gear. Not sure how this will resolve itself.
What a mess! Invaluable information. This is what the non industry reviewers have no idea about and do not have the working experience to discover your findings. You will save a lot of people a lot of heartache. 🙏🏾
I absolutely love your channel. I've learned more from you and Kuke Seerveld than anywhere else (other than actually being on set). The time and passion you put into these is noticed and appreciated. I have two unrelated questions for you. 1. Are 26V goldlock batteries also a disaster? 2. There are a lot of anecdotal reports from Blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4K users of v mounts frying the HDMI port in the camera. Supposedly this is due to a grounding issue when powering both the camera and monitor from the same battery. I've also read that this is only an issue when powering the camera via an LP-6 Dummy battery instead of the 12v lemo connector. Others report that even if you're using the lemo connector to get power from a v mount that if you have an LP-6 battery inserted it will still try something. And then of course there are a bunch of people who report absolutely no problems. As a professional electrician do you have any insight on exactly what it going on and what the best solution is? Any help is appreciated.
Same thing with the HDMI connection on a blackmagic video assist. multiple users reported frying their monitor or camera by powering it from the same battery/powersource, but I have never had any trouble whatsoever. I'm just a hobbyist, but member of a group on facebook for people in the AV-industry (to be honest, I ever more have a feeling like 'what the hell am I doning there?' because of the bunch of technical knowledge of many from time to time). Judging by the extreme amount of dodgy hardware some use, I expect just some power supplies just not being up to standards and thus causing the problems they experienced. What is dodgy hardware? Well, for example: buying a photocamera and then complaining that the battery drains so fast in videomode. Yeah well, duh, you should have bought a videocamera then! Instead, they want to power it via a dummy-battery and external power supply or by the USB-connection on the camera. All fine with me, but USB-connections are not pro-connections. They don't lock and are just so flimsy and susceptible to dust and such. Same with minijacks: 'I want to connect a phantom powered mic, but my photocamera only accepts a minijack!' or 'I tried to get two radio-mics to work with a Y-minijack cable, but it doesn't work!' Yeah, well then you should have bought a videocamera that just offers you those connections in a profesional manner. But the problem comes with the external power supply: they've spent thousands on accesoires to turn their photocamera into a videocamera, but then the power supply/powerbank/batteryplate has to be cheap, is bought from amazon or aliexpress and well, just don't do it. Buy a converter from a reputable brand and build something yourself or spend some cash on a good batteryplate. You just never know what you get and most of the 'grey import' stuff has no specifications you can trust. That's why I think most of the cheap power solutions are to blame for blowing HDMI-ports. HDMI is known for blowing input-stages when either of the devices is connected while 'hot' (read: powered), but especially in the pro-AV industry I expect the in- and output stages to be more rugged and thus handle to be hot-plugged.
Yea. It is such a pain. Someone rented a brand new tv logic monitor from me and stuck a high voltage battery on it... blew it up... Make a new system i say.
5:00: Woha there! It most likely WILL fry some cameras as those cameras use pin 3 for some signal that tells the camera what kind of battery is connected (Anton Bauer or IDX). Both my GHY HM750 and 850 from JVC are wired this way. What this pin gets fed is a mystery to me, but it is connected inside the camera and I'm pretty sure it will lead to problems should they encounter a 26 Volt battery.
Thanks for the heads up! Super useful to know BEFORE you do something dumb. Why can't the manufacturers just play nice? I can't see a reason to use a different standard for some products.
I alway thought that the systems is kinda stupid ever since I encountered my first 26V battery. Especially in a time where so many people are used to "idiot proof" designs (which isn't a good thin either). I just don't understand why they even have the exact same design, shouldn't be to difficult to change the design slightly that they are no longer cross compatible (I mean where do you really need cross compatibility between 14.8V and 26V? And even if you do, you can consciously use an adapter for that.) A real Nightmare for everyone renting out Equipment.
There's already a fuse in there. At least, all the better plates (Blackmagic, IDX) I've seen all incorporate a fuse inline with the power connections to the camera. But fuses aren't wonder-devices: first they need to sustain peak-currents as cameras are usually turned on by software-command and not turned off for real, even though you flick a real switch on pro-camcorders. Connecting a pack will charge a rather large capacitor straight after the power pins inside, which should not trip the fuse. So it's a slow-blow type of fuse. By the time it acts, electronics behind it will have been fried already.
Thanks the great information Andrew. I own a Forza 500 and I've been looking for a way to power on location without investing in 26v batteries. I wanted to hear your thoughts about using the Fxlion Skypower-48V and a 3-Pin-Male to NEUTRIK DC Cable? Any information would be great. Thanks Morgan
Thanks for alerting us about that issues...Is that a new , more silent power ballast for the Forza 500? I know you use only the base , but what about the noise from the fan?
I've had the exact problem happen. Ordered some hawk-woods 26v batteries and charger, only to find the forza 500 requires the standard v-lock config. I'm looking to get some adapter plates like you have. Where would one find them in Europe? Or anywhere, I'm a patient guy. Cheers.
Tecart did not respond to this day, so I just finished making my own with amazon parts. Works great. Thank you so much for your videos, it has come to be my favourite notification on YT. Cheers!
Do these same pin issues exist with gold mount batteries? So far I only have 14.4V gold mount batteries, but as LED's become more powerful and energy hungry, am considering adding some 26V batteries to our fleet. That being said, as I run a rental business, I'm very cognizant about things NEEDING to be idiot proof for people using our equipment.
Thanks you for the great info. I don't know if you still check the comment but I'm just wondering how can you differentiate between the 2 types of 26V battery (besides the labeling color) ?
Ive been using a vmount battery for a long time now with my same light and had no issues until last night when I was at a video shoot. Every time I plug the Tether tool battrey into my Aputure 300d mark ii, it shuts of within 8 seconds and the battery start blinking one blue light at the top. Please help ! What can I do to fix this? Every time It turns off I half to replug it into the charger then put back on light for it to work again but it still turns off within 10seconds.
Yeah, it really seems like there should be industry standards for the pin configuration and that should match with the battery color too. That way it's idiot proof for damaging equipment, and people can visually tell which voltage of battery they have.
What surprises me most is that the 'standard' on V-mount is non-accesible to customers. I know that I'm a true AV-technogeek for recelling my own V-mounts, but I find it so weird that I can't find any information anywhere about what the pins on IDX-plates/batteries carry. Tried to get my camera to report the remaining charge of the packs in capacity or time, but unfortunately the camera does not support SMbus as spoken by my batteries (while IDX and many cameras use I2C, which is just a bit less timing-strict than SMbus, which is derived from I2C and therefor usually two-way compatbile), or misses specific information on the middle pin of the V-mount: it's connected in the camera, and runs towards a 'Anton Bauer/IDX selector' as I can see in the service manual, but what the 'IDX/AB' pin needs to carry for a kind of signal to start accepting the broadcasts from the battery on the two information-contacts is beyond me: contacted IDX about this, but (as I expected) did not get a reply.
Plenty. But it's either expensive or you build something yourself. And please don't cheap out on parts but buy converters from reputable brands like Murata/Recom/Mean Well. Yes, those are more expensive than stuff from Amazon or aliexpress, but, how much did that expensive camera or light cost you again? Your equipment is not worth the gamble by powering it with cheap converters from aliexpress or something like it.
I own 5 of them, had them for about a year now and they have proved reliable. And I have run them dam hard. They have not been without problems thou. It've had a hinge snap on a stand holder for the controller. A lock off strip it's thread, and I've had one set of barn doors break.
Wow, yeah that sounds like a massive headache. Great video, good work-around with the cable tie and very important to know.
The whole reason we have industry standards. What a pain. Great content thank you. I'd be interested to know what brands and price points of batteries you recommend. I don't like going cheap and buying junk, but some of the top brand names are too expensive for lighting use.
Seems mind boggling to me that something like this wouldn't have a standard set before going out to the masses, but I'm damn glad you brought it up! Thanks for sharing and giving us some good options to work through it.
One would think something as serious as proper voltage and pin management would have been standardized. The risks you describe are a bit frightening. I appreciate the solutions, but we shouldn't have to be modifying gear to use it. Chances are, people will unknowingly find out the hard way as you have. Thank you for making this video to alert us about the risks.
I migrated to V-mount batteries years ago, as at the time they were somewhat less expensive than Gold mount batteries and charges. Over the years I have experienced V-mount batteries that would simply not fit onto some battery plates, cameras and other devices. It seems that the V-mount bracket dimensions are very exact, and different brands of batteries can vary in how well they fit. Others have mentioned this issue to me, too.
Great info! Definitely need a big warning sign for different battery voltage. Most independent gigs wouldn't know these things.
Thanks Andrew. Lack of industry standards are all part of having soo many different manufacturers making good gear. Not sure how this will resolve itself.
WOW another great information. I didn't have a clue about different pins standards. Looking forward for another video.
Wow, what an oversight by the manufacturers!!!
Thanks ... didn't know about the V-lock issues!
Thanks for this! The adapter/cable tie work-around is very clever.
Thanks for doing the video. I didn't even know this was a 'thing'!!!!
What a mess! Invaluable information. This is what the non industry reviewers have no idea about and do not have the working experience to discover your findings. You will save a lot of people a lot of heartache. 🙏🏾
I absolutely love your channel. I've learned more from you and Kuke Seerveld than anywhere else (other than actually being on set). The time and passion you put into these is noticed and appreciated. I have two unrelated questions for you. 1. Are 26V goldlock batteries also a disaster? 2. There are a lot of anecdotal reports from Blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4K users of v mounts frying the HDMI port in the camera. Supposedly this is due to a grounding issue when powering both the camera and monitor from the same battery. I've also read that this is only an issue when powering the camera via an LP-6 Dummy battery instead of the 12v lemo connector. Others report that even if you're using the lemo connector to get power from a v mount that if you have an LP-6 battery inserted it will still try something. And then of course there are a bunch of people who report absolutely no problems. As a professional electrician do you have any insight on exactly what it going on and what the best solution is? Any help is appreciated.
No idea about this
Same thing with the HDMI connection on a blackmagic video assist. multiple users reported frying their monitor or camera by powering it from the same battery/powersource, but I have never had any trouble whatsoever. I'm just a hobbyist, but member of a group on facebook for people in the AV-industry (to be honest, I ever more have a feeling like 'what the hell am I doning there?' because of the bunch of technical knowledge of many from time to time). Judging by the extreme amount of dodgy hardware some use, I expect just some power supplies just not being up to standards and thus causing the problems they experienced.
What is dodgy hardware? Well, for example: buying a photocamera and then complaining that the battery drains so fast in videomode. Yeah well, duh, you should have bought a videocamera then! Instead, they want to power it via a dummy-battery and external power supply or by the USB-connection on the camera. All fine with me, but USB-connections are not pro-connections. They don't lock and are just so flimsy and susceptible to dust and such. Same with minijacks: 'I want to connect a phantom powered mic, but my photocamera only accepts a minijack!' or 'I tried to get two radio-mics to work with a Y-minijack cable, but it doesn't work!' Yeah, well then you should have bought a videocamera that just offers you those connections in a profesional manner.
But the problem comes with the external power supply: they've spent thousands on accesoires to turn their photocamera into a videocamera, but then the power supply/powerbank/batteryplate has to be cheap, is bought from amazon or aliexpress and well, just don't do it. Buy a converter from a reputable brand and build something yourself or spend some cash on a good batteryplate.
You just never know what you get and most of the 'grey import' stuff has no specifications you can trust. That's why I think most of the cheap power solutions are to blame for blowing HDMI-ports. HDMI is known for blowing input-stages when either of the devices is connected while 'hot' (read: powered), but especially in the pro-AV industry I expect the in- and output stages to be more rugged and thus handle to be hot-plugged.
One of the best videos out there! Thanks a lot for the informative video.
Thnx u for letting us know that important information.
Yea. It is such a pain. Someone rented a brand new tv logic monitor from me and stuck a high voltage battery on it... blew it up... Make a new system i say.
5:00: Woha there! It most likely WILL fry some cameras as those cameras use pin 3 for some signal that tells the camera what kind of battery is connected (Anton Bauer or IDX). Both my GHY HM750 and 850 from JVC are wired this way. What this pin gets fed is a mystery to me, but it is connected inside the camera and I'm pretty sure it will lead to problems should they encounter a 26 Volt battery.
Thanks for the heads up! 👍🏽
Thanks for the heads up! Super useful to know BEFORE you do something dumb. Why can't the manufacturers just play nice? I can't see a reason to use a different standard for some products.
I alway thought that the systems is kinda stupid ever since I encountered my first 26V battery. Especially in a time where so many people are used to "idiot proof" designs (which isn't a good thin either). I just don't understand why they even have the exact same design, shouldn't be to difficult to change the design slightly that they are no longer cross compatible (I mean where do you really need cross compatibility between 14.8V and 26V? And even if you do, you can consciously use an adapter for that.) A real Nightmare for everyone renting out Equipment.
What about modifying the battery plate with an overvoltage circuit (like an etra fuse) or so? (in the 14.4)?
There's already a fuse in there. At least, all the better plates (Blackmagic, IDX) I've seen all incorporate a fuse inline with the power connections to the camera. But fuses aren't wonder-devices: first they need to sustain peak-currents as cameras are usually turned on by software-command and not turned off for real, even though you flick a real switch on pro-camcorders. Connecting a pack will charge a rather large capacitor straight after the power pins inside, which should not trip the fuse. So it's a slow-blow type of fuse.
By the time it acts, electronics behind it will have been fried already.
I finally realize why gaffers are so essential. You guys are the failsafe of production.
Thanks the great information Andrew.
I own a Forza 500 and I've been looking for a way to power on location without investing in 26v batteries.
I wanted to hear your thoughts about using the Fxlion Skypower-48V and a 3-Pin-Male to NEUTRIK DC Cable?
Any information would be great. Thanks Morgan
Check the maximum output on that device, but if it's using 4 batteries the v-locks should be fine
Thanks for alerting us about that issues...Is that a new , more silent power ballast for the Forza 500? I know you use only the base , but what about the noise from the fan?
It runs quiet now, not silent, but overall quieter than a HMI.
My last two videos are lit with them.
@@gaffergear Thanks, so the more silent ballast is on the go :) Thanks for the review again :)
I've had the exact problem happen. Ordered some hawk-woods 26v batteries and charger, only to find the forza 500 requires the standard v-lock config. I'm looking to get some adapter plates like you have. Where would one find them in Europe? Or anywhere, I'm a patient guy. Cheers.
Tecart.com.au make these sort of custom things for me.
Tecart did not respond to this day, so I just finished making my own with amazon parts. Works great. Thank you so much for your videos, it has come to be my favourite notification on YT. Cheers!
Do these same pin issues exist with gold mount batteries? So far I only have 14.4V gold mount batteries, but as LED's become more powerful and energy hungry, am considering adding some 26V batteries to our fleet. That being said, as I run a rental business, I'm very cognizant about things NEEDING to be idiot proof for people using our equipment.
I have no idea about gold mount, it's not very common in Australia
Thanks you for the great info. I don't know if you still check the comment but I'm just wondering how can you differentiate between the 2 types of 26V battery (besides the labeling color) ?
That's about it,
@@gaffergear Wow, ok. Thank you for your quick reply!
Ive been using a vmount battery for a long time now with my same light and had no issues until last night when I was at a video shoot. Every time I plug the Tether tool battrey into my Aputure 300d mark ii, it shuts of within 8 seconds and the battery start blinking one blue light at the top. Please help ! What can I do to fix this? Every time It turns off I half to replug it into the charger then put back on light for it to work again but it still turns off within 10seconds.
What size is the battery.
May be the time has come to USE AB mounts
kind of crazy. they should have warning labels on each battery~
Yeah, it really seems like there should be industry standards for the pin configuration and that should match with the battery color too. That way it's idiot proof for damaging equipment, and people can visually tell which voltage of battery they have.
What surprises me most is that the 'standard' on V-mount is non-accesible to customers. I know that I'm a true AV-technogeek for recelling my own V-mounts, but I find it so weird that I can't find any information anywhere about what the pins on IDX-plates/batteries carry. Tried to get my camera to report the remaining charge of the packs in capacity or time, but unfortunately the camera does not support SMbus as spoken by my batteries (while IDX and many cameras use I2C, which is just a bit less timing-strict than SMbus, which is derived from I2C and therefor usually two-way compatbile), or misses specific information on the middle pin of the V-mount: it's connected in the camera, and runs towards a 'Anton Bauer/IDX selector' as I can see in the service manual, but what the 'IDX/AB' pin needs to carry for a kind of signal to start accepting the broadcasts from the battery on the two information-contacts is beyond me: contacted IDX about this, but (as I expected) did not get a reply.
Is there something that downconverts 26v vmount into 14.8v?
There is stuff that goes the other way, but only up to 150w
Yes, but it is limited to 150w.
Plenty. But it's either expensive or you build something yourself. And please don't cheap out on parts but buy converters from reputable brands like Murata/Recom/Mean Well. Yes, those are more expensive than stuff from Amazon or aliexpress, but, how much did that expensive camera or light cost you again? Your equipment is not worth the gamble by powering it with cheap converters from aliexpress or something like it.
What do you think about the quality of the forza 500?
I own 5 of them, had them for about a year now and they have proved reliable. And I have run them dam hard. They have not been without problems thou.
It've had a hinge snap on a stand holder for the controller. A lock off strip it's thread, and I've had one set of barn doors break.
@@gaffergear thanks matte!!!
SMART
where do you get the plates? Link please if you have it
Tecart.com.au
Custom made, so you may have to contact them via e-mail.