I'm glad you two are speaking up. I can't imagine the pain of having a friend hiding sin like this for years without having any idea. I still believe the fast for Israel was sanctioned by God. Yes, becoming jaded is a real danger.
Thanks much Ken & Grant! This is so not overly emotional, level-headed, helpful and clear. Especially in praying for mercy. And to pray that our hearts to always remain soft and not be jaded.
according to public testimony of a former IHOPKC ELT member Liz Herder, there are almost 20 Jane Does. two victims were 14 and 15 when he began SAing them. According to the requirements for a leader in scripture, these actions disqualify him.
Good counsel. Glad I caught this... had not heard about any of this. I will pray for all involved and believe for the divine healing for all who will receive it... this is so heartbreaking but it is good that it's known. Great coverage guys. God bless.
Thanks for being a dry level-headed voice of reason through this. It seems like a lot of people are thinking with their hearts and not their heads as the emotions lead. I agree, Mike Bickle is too old and will never return to any pulpit.
@@sheilaboland6285he is saying that since all trust is depleted and there is so much to sort out - it would take a very long time to get “out of the penalty box” and be in a position to start rebuilding trust. Ken goes on to say that considering Mike is 68, he won’t likely have time to make that happen
If this happened in Australia with minors, he’d be facing charges as we have no statute of limitations. And highly likely go to jail and be on a sex offenders list, never to be working with under 18s again.
Without negating the sin, nor the pain caused to the women, I do agree that it's not up to us to determine that someone should NEVER return to ministry... I have to believe in the redemptive power of God after repentence, no matter how dark someone has delved. It's between them and God what goes on in their heart; time, re-building trust and close accountability would be necessary. God still loves him, and it's never the what, it's the why. Healing can't really start to happen until that's uncovered. I do really, really, really feel for his family, especially his wife.
Sin is one thing. A long history of predation is something else. Predators in shepherd's clothing, using their position of representing Jesus to abuse. That is a far more serious issue than "simple" consensual zex sin. I know what it feels like to think I know someone and to find out through betrayal that they were nothing like how they portrayed themselves. It took years for my heart reconcile the situation and to learn how to discern the spirits at a level where I recognize that same kind person before I let them close. It all really points to all of us needing an upgrade in the discerning of spirits and learning to trust when we perceive something off instead of "believing the best". "Believe the best" is how predators deceive good hearts. Let's instead "receive a love of the truth" (2These 2) and let the Spirit lead us into all truth. That is my thoughts on this situation.
@@mimicaban9551 Hi Mimi! Thank you for your question, it is very pertinent. Know that I have the utmost concern and compassion for the people who have been hurt, both young and older, and for his family. Please don't misunderstand me, sin is sin, and there were people who were very, very hurt and traumatised by it, and are still hurting. There are no excuses for it and there are consequences for it. As there should be. What I wonder about is the cancel culture that has come about when a church leader falls... any leader who falls. We as the modern church tend to have a blanket reaction that a leader should be stripped of everything and forever put out into shame and never allowed to serve in the church again. Ever. But that isn't how scripture tells us to deal with people. I was agreeing with Ken that it's not up to us to determine if a person SHOULD NEVER do anything to serve the Lord again, EVER... I do agree, if they were to, there must be true repentance, time to heal the reason why it happened in the first place, and ongoing close monitoring and accountability with the elders and church leaders if they were to go back into any type of ministry role, but I stop short of making a 'forever' determination based on the 'current' state of someone's life. If I did, I'd be turning my back on the Gospel - that redemptive message of the Cross, the power of Jesus to bring healing, transformation, restoration, to any of us. I'd be denying the call to help bring people to that repentance. The fact is, we all fall. Some fall more spectacularly and more publicly than others. But is it still true that nothing can seperate any of us from the love of God? It's a jagged little pill to swallow, that God still loves even the worst of us, while we are still in our worst state. How would I like to be treated if I were in this position? I hope someone would take a minute to see me through God's eyes, and help bring me to repentance, and restoration, as I turned my life back over to God again. Speaking from experience of both sides of the coin... Blessings xx
@@alisongilbert8902 as one sex offender serving life in prison said to me when i asked him: now that you know Jesus dont you wish you could get out of jail? his answer shocked me. he said: NO mimi!! i cannot control myself and i do not want to hurt another person. i do not want to leave prison. so my answer is that when a person cannot or will not control themselves and they show years long sinful habits that harm others in egregious ways, the WE need to impose external controls on that person. bickle SA two young girls plus others. the most serious restrictions should be imposed on him by the ekklesia and by the law where applicable. the apostle paul strenuously rebuked the corinthian church for refusing to swiftly and decisively deal with grievous sexual sin. not only did bickle SA several females, he also used his gifting to spiritually manipulate and groom an entire community. as a leader YOU may want that type of person in your midst but i do not. forgiving does not mean allowing people access when they cannot be trusted.
While it isn't up to us, it is our responsibility to obey God and what His Word outlines. 1 Timothy and Titus provide the qualifications for an elder. An elder must be beyond reproach. No one has the right to be in the pulpit. There are secular jobs available. The pastor who has led a double life for decades, he must be restored to God, to his family, and eventually to the church as a member who can be trusted to attend without being a threat to others. But church leadership is not Scriptural for these situations.
If this pastor is guilty of abusing minors, he is committing a criminal act! Forget about returning to the ministry. He should go to jail!
I'm glad you two are speaking up. I can't imagine the pain of having a friend hiding sin like this for years without having any idea. I still believe the fast for Israel was sanctioned by God. Yes, becoming jaded is a real danger.
Thanks much Ken & Grant! This is so not overly emotional, level-headed, helpful and clear. Especially in praying for mercy. And to pray that our hearts to always remain soft and not be jaded.
according to public testimony of a former IHOPKC ELT member Liz Herder, there are almost 20 Jane Does. two victims were 14 and 15 when he began SAing them. According to the requirements for a leader in scripture, these actions disqualify him.
Absolutely not if he did.
@@Simbaress247 according to the testimonies of the victims who were minors when he began to SA them and those who know them, he did.
Good counsel. Glad I caught this... had not heard about any of this. I will pray for all involved and believe for the divine healing for all who will receive it... this is so heartbreaking but it is good that it's known. Great coverage guys. God bless.
Thanks for being a dry level-headed voice of reason through this. It seems like a lot of people are thinking with their hearts and not their heads as the emotions lead. I agree, Mike Bickle is too old and will never return to any pulpit.
Too old?
@@sheilaboland6285he is saying that since all trust is depleted and there is so much to sort out - it would take a very long time to get “out of the penalty box” and be in a position to start rebuilding trust.
Ken goes on to say that considering Mike is 68, he won’t likely have time to make that happen
If this happened in Australia with minors, he’d be facing charges as we have no statute of limitations. And highly likely go to jail and be on a sex offenders list, never to be working with under 18s again.
😢 you're absolutely correct ... very very sad
Mike Bickle should be charged/convicted/sentenced/imprisoned… his behaviour has been criminally recidivist.
Very sad.😢 but well expressed Ken🙏🙏🙏
Without negating the sin, nor the pain caused to the women, I do agree that it's not up to us to determine that someone should NEVER return to ministry... I have to believe in the redemptive power of God after repentence, no matter how dark someone has delved. It's between them and God what goes on in their heart; time, re-building trust and close accountability would be necessary. God still loves him, and it's never the what, it's the why. Healing can't really start to happen until that's uncovered.
I do really, really, really feel for his family, especially his wife.
Does it change your position if you knew that one victim was 14 and another was 15 when he began SAing them?
Sin is one thing. A long history of predation is something else. Predators in shepherd's clothing, using their position of representing Jesus to abuse. That is a far more serious issue than "simple" consensual zex sin.
I know what it feels like to think I know someone and to find out through betrayal that they were nothing like how they portrayed themselves. It took years for my heart reconcile the situation and to learn how to discern the spirits at a level where I recognize that same kind person before I let them close. It all really points to all of us needing an upgrade in the discerning of spirits and learning to trust when we perceive something off instead of "believing the best". "Believe the best" is how predators deceive good hearts. Let's instead "receive a love of the truth" (2These 2) and let the Spirit lead us into all truth. That is my thoughts on this situation.
@@mimicaban9551 Hi Mimi! Thank you for your question, it is very pertinent. Know that I have the utmost concern and compassion for the people who have been hurt, both young and older, and for his family.
Please don't misunderstand me, sin is sin, and there were people who were very, very hurt and traumatised by it, and are still hurting. There are no excuses for it and there are consequences for it. As there should be.
What I wonder about is the cancel culture that has come about when a church leader falls... any leader who falls.
We as the modern church tend to have a blanket reaction that a leader should be stripped of everything and forever put out into shame and never allowed to serve in the church again. Ever.
But that isn't how scripture tells us to deal with people. I was agreeing with Ken that it's not up to us to determine if a person SHOULD NEVER do anything to serve the Lord again, EVER... I do agree, if they were to, there must be true repentance, time to heal the reason why it happened in the first place, and ongoing close monitoring and accountability with the elders and church leaders if they were to go back into any type of ministry role, but I stop short of making a 'forever' determination based on the 'current' state of someone's life. If I did, I'd be turning my back on the Gospel - that redemptive message of the Cross, the power of Jesus to bring healing, transformation, restoration, to any of us. I'd be denying the call to help bring people to that repentance.
The fact is, we all fall. Some fall more spectacularly and more publicly than others.
But is it still true that nothing can seperate any of us from the love of God? It's a jagged little pill to swallow, that God still loves even the worst of us, while we are still in our worst state.
How would I like to be treated if I were in this position? I hope someone would take a minute to see me through God's eyes, and help bring me to repentance, and restoration, as I turned my life back over to God again.
Speaking from experience of both sides of the coin...
Blessings xx
@@alisongilbert8902 as one sex offender serving life in prison said to me when i asked him: now that you know Jesus dont you wish you could get out of jail? his answer shocked me. he said: NO mimi!! i cannot control myself and i do not want to hurt another person. i do not want to leave prison. so my answer is that when a person cannot or will not control themselves and they show years long sinful habits that harm others in egregious ways, the WE need to impose external controls on that person. bickle SA two young girls plus others. the most serious restrictions should be imposed on him by the ekklesia and by the law where applicable. the apostle paul strenuously rebuked the corinthian church for refusing to swiftly and decisively deal with grievous sexual sin. not only did bickle SA several females, he also used his gifting to spiritually manipulate and groom an entire community. as a leader YOU may want that type of person in your midst but i do not. forgiving does not mean allowing people access when they cannot be trusted.
While it isn't up to us, it is our responsibility to obey God and what His Word outlines. 1 Timothy and Titus provide the qualifications for an elder. An elder must be beyond reproach.
No one has the right to be in the pulpit. There are secular jobs available.
The pastor who has led a double life for decades, he must be restored to God, to his family, and eventually to the church as a member who can be trusted to attend without being a threat to others. But church leadership is not Scriptural for these situations.