My Dad has always said that when in search of horsepower you should remember an engine is little more than a glorified air pump...in that the more efficiently you can get air into and out of the engine and the fuel to match you will always make more power. Liking the content here big time...so glad Buckin sent me this way
Ok that's too good I posted my original comment while watching the video...and promptly heard you start talking about moving air and working in duct work lol 👍
Props to Ironhorse... he's the reason I found your channel. I'll be at the next Buckinstock as well, can't wait. We should use the lathe on a build in the near future, that would be cool to see how the numbers change.
BLESS YOU TINMAN FOR GOING SLOW AND TAKING YOUR TIME WHILE SHARING YOU GOLDEN NOTEBOOK. THAT NOTEBOOK IS POUR GOLD TO ME. I AM TATALLY A VISUAL LEARNER. THE NOTEBOOK, GOING SLOW WITH YOUR CUTAWAY IS PURE GENIUSE WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATING ME. PLEASE KEEP THE SLOW PACE AND ATTENTION TO DEATAILS. YOU HAVE CREATED AN AMAZING EDUCATIONAL SERIES ON PORTING TO HELP GENERATIONS TO COME!!! CHRISTMAS HAS COME EARLY FOR ME BECAUSE OF YOU TINMAN. I WANT TO GRADUATE FROM TINMAN'S UNIVERSITY OF POWERSAW PORTING!!!
Tinman high quality stuff in this video I’m getting it more and more every time you post on this echo porting serious I love it. I greatly appreciate it!!
Started watching your series on saw porting. Freaking love it so far! Awesome information! I just got through the third video and can't wait for the next one. So glad I came over here when buckin suggested you!!!!!
Tinman your videos are so awesome you explain everything in super detail to make things easy to understand. Been working on Small engine stuff for a very long time but never got into porting and timing saws. I wish I had but now trying to learn now.
Hey Tinman. I’ve watched all your vids and I subscribe to other saw build channels and have listened to so much great advice and guidance. This vid leaves them all for dead. That’s not to say all those other educators aren’t awesome, you’ve just nailed it with this one. As a novice saw builder, sincerely thank you 👊
AWSOME JOB 👍 again explaining porting you and Harv are the best out there in my opinion keep up the fun your having and I'll be trying my own porting, Have a GREAT HOLIDAY !!
Great stuff Tinman. Really appreciate these vids. Getting a lot out of them. Myself and a few buddies are trying to do this, but more for milling saws with long bars, so torque is our goal. With that there is a bit of translation from your outlook with HP being primary. I did hear clearly though that we are looking to keep the exhaust roof lower. If you could touch on that a bit more as you go it would be appreciated. Even if it just to contrast high HP/RPM Vs. a slower torquier build. I almost think from your description that there may be a great balance for it all, maybe with a nod to torque in the build. Again thanks, you've more fans than you probably realize.
I run a saw daily for a living and own 15 saws. I also watch a lot of porting videos and I enjoy your videos and personality more than any other tuber/porter ive seen! Awesome content and explanations. I never ported a saw until watching your videos now I have one pretty mean 1980 028 super. It cuts and runs much better than the other 2 028 supers and does better than the 29 super or 290!! Thanks for your enfo and videos
Once again, good stuff. Air pump: basic fact about all engines that most people forget. Numbers are "easy", but "what they mean" is the hard stuff, the learning. Good explanation on what they do (exhaust height, rpm, intake, throttle response). Just like everyone else, Thank you for sharing.
Hopefully CA will open the darn border. Missed my fishing trip to Silver Dollar, ON this year. Vancouver would be a heck of a trip and bucking stock would be great! Thanks for more porting info, I plan on staring my first port soon as you wrap this series.
I have some old tiny homelites that still start after sitting for years. Since they aren't worth much they will be my first projects to get a feel for porting. Excited to get started.
Tinman your making me want to play around with some old blown up saws I have laying round. Most are small saws (30 cc) and some slightly larger home owner saws. I do have a back ground in engine building to include 2 stroke Detroits. Maybe one day I will be confident enough to play with the saws that make money. I tend to like fast saws. My favorite is a Husky 346xp. Just picked up an Echo 620p though. Thanks you for this in-depth look.
Great video Tinman!!!!Thanks for the great info and thanks for taking the time to explain everything in normal human terms. Keep it at and have a Merry Christmas.
Murder wood! I appreciate you taking the time to explain the numbers. You have all the numbers, so if you get the same saw, or you need to put a new top end on you can make it happen again easy. You've done the math already. I appreciate you going over this stuff again. Have an awesome Christmas sir!
In my motorcicle ,50 cc, 30 years ago , i dont change the timing but made more larger the inlet and outlet hole to have more Power. Sorry for my English. Good Christmas
I blame bucking Billy then iron horse now your 3rd on the blame list, all started with a 038M last year coming across your channel keep up the great work and taking time to explain better then a text book 🤟 happy holidays bud
Merry Xmas congratulations on the sub's. I just put together 661 made of a blown up one and one that had a large oak impact the e carb had me scratching my head but it works keep up the great work I feel like I know you
I'm watching this as I get the port numbers for an almost unused 375K that my work was going to scrap while cleaning the yard. Going to put it back as a chainsaw instead of a concrete saw. Heard all sorts of stuff about how bad the timing numbers are because they are limited way down in rpm (a black coil will fix that😜) so far without a base gasket im at .023 squish 102 exhaust 156 duration 124 blowdown 75 intake 150 duration And its a 75 cc overbore. Think it will make a fine saw with a little massaging.
So thankful for you and what you are doing for the community. Not quite understanding all of it yet however, I didn't quite understand MOA when i first started shooting but one day, it just all clicked. I felt stupid for not gettin it sooner. I have an MS390 that's sitting in my garage just begging to get back to work. And believe you me . . . It needs it. Thank you again for sharing with the community
Man this is awesome, I am two saws in, Started with small saws 3400 countervibe, Also a ms 270 both saws for the moment are screamers, thanks for the videos. 🤘 Have a good one
If timing numbers are a language then I'm illiterate! Good thing Professor Tinman is having these night classes at Tinman University. Thanks Tinman!!!!!!
Thanks tin man you explain well got a 61 i fancy having a go at Electrolux ? but im going to really look at your vids your very clever keep showing us ,you and family have a nice Christmas thanks .
All the saws I've ported on the exhaust port 99 or 100 , those are good work saws , now I've ported saws that worked good by machining the piston instead of the cylider
“Woods port”=“3/4 race cam” 😂🤣. All kidding aside, great video bud. My first saw I accidentally pushed the intake almost out to 160* of duration and it’s wicked but I don’t know how practical it will be, but that’s what junk free saws are for I guess🤷♂️. Hey all it’s gotta do is start, idle, and murder wood!
Hi Tinman. I'm a porter in NZ. I don't do it commercially just for myself and a few mates. I get where you are at with this video and you have done a great job helping guys out. Like you I would love to have a conversation with a group of guys and share info. I don't know anyone in NZ who does it I'm sure there must be few. I have a 372 Meteor that I killed some years ago with an 87 Exhaust. It was generally peaky but made no power and so it got put on the wall of shame. Recently I got it down and studied it and saw some glaring errors in my thinking, run some numbers and moved my intake down to 92 ATDC. I also did a small flow correction and changed my aux transfer shape. This cylinder is now on the saw and it works extremely well as a cookie cutter. It's not a work saw nor will it ever be but its a lot of fun. It runs a 390 carb and looks totally stock but sounds and runs like a race saw. I guess I have had about 3 or 4 goes at getting that cylinder to run over the years. As you say it takes time to understand what's going on and what's the best pick to make it run. The 372 is my pet saw. Frankly my 372's ported to 98 exhaust are seriously fast saws with strong torque. Faster than my stock 660 and 395 with a 24 bar and still faster than my 660 with a 30 inch bar. Its taken me 10 years off and on to work it all out and its nice to finally be porting at a level where I'm actually happy with the saws. The last piece of the puzzle for me is the combustion chamber and compression ratio. It maters more than we give credit. I recently got a CNC mill and I have been cutting perfect combustion chambers into stock cylinders. WOW! Huge difference! I now see why guys build there own heads for race saws.
Hey man. Where abouts in nz are ya? Just setting up my first timing wheel. Haven't known of anyone in nz porting saws until stumbling across this comment
I have not gotten as far into the book as I'd like but I suspect that "ideal" timing numbers will change according to displacement but also how bore and stroke relate to each other, considering these are cross flow scavenging engines. I have a lot more studying to do on blow down.... it seems like there has to be a sweet spot where the exhaust exiting will create a suction effect helping to pull the charge into the cylinder, rather than relying on the charge to push exhaust out. Much to learn...
Hey thanks just subscribed like the info I’m new to portin myself n these are basically saw motors I’m playing with in fact it’s a super common mod to put a saw jug on these bottom ends.
Just a heads up on wet flow it flows different then dry or just air so what works good for a dry flow system will typically not work for a wet flow. Wet flow meaning fuel and oil or fuel. I have learned from my dads buddy on single cylinder engines for kart racing and him using a wet flow bench. I have learned that smooth surfaces is a no go in intake ports of any kind. some have gains from it me personally no the rougher the surface the better. The dimple porting for something like a cookie saw that'd constantly at its peak rpms. I have had good luck with it in saws I've built. also the spacing and size and depth of each dimple does affect flow with wet meaning fuel/oil. It helps with atomization the fuel to air mix for better combustion. The saw might load up on fuel at idle from it depending the application. If you pay attention to some stihl intake boots they have little spikes in them close together. Just a thought in things to try. it could speed up the air flow. To large of ports can slow the speed down.
Very good thoughts. I agree on everything you said. Why would stihl put ribbing in the intake boot unintentionally? And bigger is not always better. Flow is #1.
There are different ways to speed up airflow and slow it down certain turbulence is a + and certain turbulence is a -. I've gotten into the dimple porting and have had very very good luck with it with saw builds. My idea came somewhat from fishing. If you look back at some of the late 80's early 2000's spinner baits blades not the shape of the blade but the dimples on the blade. Bait companies started going this because it helped with vibrations and different shapes and sizes and how far apart each dimple is caused the blade to put off different vibrations in order to attract a large mouth or small or spot... etc it's the same concept when putting that same work into a intake port. Yes the flow speeds up as the port gets small but the air to fuel stays atomized from the demples or say a 80 grits rough surface or sandblasted surface or ribbed surface. I personally have gotten to like dimples and ribs lol makes for a better fuel burn
i don't know if you covered it in another video, but maybe people would benefit from what would change if you added in a gasket. What would change if you took the squish down to 0.020. Maybe if you drew it out, it would be interesting. I guess a delete will increase compression because it is sinking the piston deeper. Sinking the piston deeper increases blowdown i think? So then when you make the lower ports flow better it brings in more fuel? On a motorcycle, when you get the tailpipe less restricted you end up changing jets or fuel mapping. Buckin' was talking to a saw guy, I think Walker, and he said that most saws will run well around 150 degrees. Very interesting.
Lots of good info in this one Tinman. ''I move air at work''(poot). Sorry needed a pre Christmas fart joke. Happy Christmas to you and your family big fella. It's going to be 21degrees C here in Tassie for Chrissy, stay warm.
Thanks for sharing your head full of knowledge! Great explanations! Looking forward to seeing the turd spittin chips! Hope y’all have a great Christmas!👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hi, interesting and instructional video. I'am a swed and the Husqvarna is a swedish company, but man you murder the Husqvarna pronansuation, it shuld be like [hus_kvarna] ;-)
Gray videos. The old lady wants to watch movies but I like to watch this. I’m in Phoenix and don’t really even have a use for more than a once in awhile saw. But think I’m Going to look for one too mess with
LOVE THE WAY YOU BREAKDOWN EVERYTHING ,SO IT MAKES SENSE, VERY UNDERSTANDABLE HOW YOU EXPLAIN STUFF ,YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EXCELLENT SMALL ENGINES TEACHER ,WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND BEST WISHES FOR 2021 HOPEFULLY THIS COVID CRAP LEVELS OUT BY SPRING BE SAFE TINMAN
I found an old Stihl 017 I'm fixing to start messing with and I'm wondering if you have any "numbers" that would be a good starting point to go to. Thank you for these wonderful videos.
Hi Tinman, I've watched these videos several times over now just to get my head around it while checking the numbers on my mo chine and I really appreciate and thank you for the time that you've put in, but I don't understand how you can drop your cylinder 0,014 and yet maintain the same Transfer, Intake and Exhaust opening numbers????? Am I missing some thing?🤥
When adding 2 degrees of intake timing, would you trim piston skirt or open the intake port. I’m afraid of loosing velocity by opening the intake port.
All good stuff Tinman, but you forgot to mention piston overhang in the intake port at TDC, if the piston skirt is lower than the intake roof it never fully opens effectively reducing the port size so if this is the situation it's sometimes better to trim the rear piston skirt to increase intake duration and also clear the top of the port. Lowering the port floor will increase the duration but the piston skirt will still be in the way at TDC making the port smaller than it could be.
Following on from my comment above, cutting the piston skirt is an easy way to experiment with intake duration, go too far with it and you've only wrecked a piston not your whole cylinder.
Thats an interesting point. I don't really worry about the skirt covering a but of the top of the port at TDC because most chainsaw pistons dwell anywhere from 3 to say 6 degrees at the top of the stroke. The piston really doesn't move at the Point just before or after TDC so there's really no flow up there. Most of the flow occurs just after the piston opens as the case vacuum should be at its highest upon opening. Just my oppinion. Thanks for the comment have a great day!!!
@@tinmanssaws As you've said in your videos different folk do it different ways and it's whatever works for you but I prefer to get every obstacle I can find out of the way. Bearing in mind that at 9000 rpm the air has to go through the ENTIRE ENGINE in 0.0066 of a second ( 60 seconds divided by 9000 ) my race bike engines used to go 120000. that's 0.005 of a second, from the carb inlet to the exhaust port exit.
So if you did lower the squish down to .020 how much more would you have raised your exaust port? And would you have changed the intake more? Also shouldn’t your top ring be past your exaust roof right before the intake cracks open?
Aren't there like tools where you insert your dimension, numbers, and could get an expected outcome of torque/rpm? Just like in SOLIDWORKS or something. Would like to begin porting for myself (probably just cleaning production castings and opening them a bit up) but I'd need to have numbers from a respected porter to begin with my saw (because I haven't found any numbers for my saw yet😅)
only now am i going through these videos, plenty of views i see, imagine a few years from now. for my stock stihls for now ive only widened exhaust ports a little , tapered the exhaust side of the piston and increased the angle in the intake like Harvey showed, and simple blending inside the aftermarket cylinder and a free flowing muffler, thats as far as i dare go for now, but once i get a degree wheel it will be time for a saw that is not a clamshell.
Greetings fellow Manitoban!! Great vid as always! I am eager to start my own porting... Any idea on a cheap saw to start on? My 390 and 562 are too expensive to learn on.
My Dad has always said that when in search of horsepower you should remember an engine is little more than a glorified air pump...in that the more efficiently you can get air into and out of the engine and the fuel to match you will always make more power. Liking the content here big time...so glad Buckin sent me this way
Ok that's too good I posted my original comment while watching the video...and promptly heard you start talking about moving air and working in duct work lol 👍
Props to Ironhorse... he's the reason I found your channel. I'll be at the next Buckinstock as well, can't wait. We should use the lathe on a build in the near future, that would be cool to see how the numbers change.
GOOD THING THIS IS ALL RECORDED I WOULD NOT REMEMBER ONE TENTH OF IT
BLESS YOU TINMAN FOR GOING SLOW AND TAKING YOUR TIME WHILE SHARING YOU GOLDEN NOTEBOOK.
THAT NOTEBOOK IS POUR GOLD TO ME.
I AM TATALLY A VISUAL LEARNER. THE NOTEBOOK, GOING SLOW WITH YOUR CUTAWAY IS PURE GENIUSE WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATING ME.
PLEASE KEEP THE SLOW PACE AND ATTENTION TO DEATAILS.
YOU HAVE CREATED AN AMAZING EDUCATIONAL SERIES ON PORTING TO HELP GENERATIONS TO COME!!!
CHRISTMAS HAS COME EARLY FOR ME BECAUSE OF YOU TINMAN. I WANT TO GRADUATE FROM TINMAN'S UNIVERSITY OF POWERSAW PORTING!!!
The great teacher!!! Super job tinman. These videos will end up with millions of views.
AMEN, AMEN ,AMEN!!! Tinman has such a kind heart true Altruism!!!
I really appreciate your videos. You've certainly taught me quite a bit, especially on timing. It's super cool to know the "why" on these power heads.
Tinman high quality stuff in this video I’m getting it more and more every time you post on this echo porting serious I love it. I greatly appreciate it!!
Started watching your series on saw porting. Freaking love it so far! Awesome information! I just got through the third video and can't wait for the next one. So glad I came over here when buckin suggested you!!!!!
Tinman your videos are so awesome you explain everything in super detail to make things easy to understand. Been working on Small engine stuff for a very long time but never got into porting and timing saws. I wish I had but now trying to learn now.
This series has been awesome! Thank you for all the information, I successfully ported my first saw today stihl 038 Mag.
Hey Tinman.
I’ve watched all your vids and I subscribe to other saw build channels and have listened to so much great advice and guidance.
This vid leaves them all for dead. That’s not to say all those other educators aren’t awesome, you’ve just nailed it with this one.
As a novice saw builder, sincerely thank you 👊
Fantastic stuff from the professor of sawology! Thanks Tinman for the great insight, keep up the great work 👍👍💪💪😁!
Very well done so humble about porting look forward to every video
Really digging this series.. third time watching them, great info
Merry Christmas Tinman! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and hanging out with us. Also, I agree that ironhorse is great!
AWSOME JOB 👍 again explaining porting you and Harv are the best out there in my opinion keep up the fun your having and I'll be trying my own porting, Have a GREAT HOLIDAY !!
Great stuff Tinman. Really appreciate these vids. Getting a lot out of them. Myself and a few buddies are trying to do this, but more for milling saws with long bars, so torque is our goal. With that there is a bit of translation from your outlook with HP being primary. I did hear clearly though that we are looking to keep the exhaust roof lower. If you could touch on that a bit more as you go it would be appreciated. Even if it just to contrast high HP/RPM Vs. a slower torquier build. I almost think from your description that there may be a great balance for it all, maybe with a nod to torque in the build. Again thanks, you've more fans than you probably realize.
I run a saw daily for a living and own 15 saws. I also watch a lot of porting videos and I enjoy your videos and personality more than any other tuber/porter ive seen! Awesome content and explanations. I never ported a saw until watching your videos now I have one pretty mean 1980 028 super. It cuts and runs much better than the other 2 028 supers and does better than the 29 super or 290!! Thanks for your enfo and videos
Once again, good stuff. Air pump: basic fact about all engines that most people forget. Numbers are "easy", but "what they mean" is the hard stuff, the learning. Good explanation on what they do (exhaust height, rpm, intake, throttle response). Just like everyone else, Thank you for sharing.
Hopefully CA will open the darn border. Missed my fishing trip to Silver Dollar, ON this year. Vancouver would be a heck of a trip and bucking stock would be great! Thanks for more porting info, I plan on staring my first port soon as you wrap this series.
Just watched this vid for the third time.
Bloody ripper!
Plain speak and easy to understand 👊
Awesome definitly clarified alot for what i was looking for specially with the cut view. And figiring out number.
Man I don't have enough patience and math smarts, I just guess and grind, sometimes I hit a home run sometimes I blow up.
I have some old tiny homelites that still start after sitting for years. Since they aren't worth much they will be my first projects to get a feel for porting. Excited to get started.
I really appreciate your very well explained videos!
Thank You! 🙏👍🏁
Tinman your making me want to play around with some old blown up saws I have laying round. Most are small saws (30 cc) and some slightly larger home owner saws. I do have a back ground in engine building to include 2 stroke Detroits. Maybe one day I will be confident enough to play with the saws that make money. I tend to like fast saws. My favorite is a Husky 346xp. Just picked up an Echo 620p though. Thanks you for this in-depth look.
Great video Tinman!!!!Thanks for the great info and thanks for taking the time to explain everything in normal human terms. Keep it at and have a Merry Christmas.
AWESOME VIDEO ! Thank you for addressing my comment on last video almost to the T, tinman buddy ur a awesome humble great inspiring wonderful man
AMEN, AMEN ,AMEN!!! Tinman has such a kind heart true Altruism!!!
I'm glad I helped answer your comment!!!
I’m starting back over at part one and this time I’m bringing a pen and note book! Thanks Tinman!
Wow! I will definitely be coming back to this one before I start porting my 2nd little Husqvarna 350. Thanks again, onto the next video.
I will be watching all these videos many times before I turn on the Dremel. Thanks Tinman
Murder wood! I appreciate you taking the time to explain the numbers. You have all the numbers, so if you get the same saw, or you need to put a new top end on you can make it happen again easy. You've done the math already. I appreciate you going over this stuff again. Have an awesome Christmas sir!
Merry Christmas!!
Thanks for the informative videos Tinman!!!
In my motorcicle ,50 cc, 30 years ago , i dont change the timing but made more larger the inlet and outlet hole to have more Power. Sorry for my English. Good Christmas
I blame bucking Billy then iron horse now your 3rd on the blame list, all started with a 038M last year coming across your channel keep up the great work and taking time to explain better then a text book 🤟 happy holidays bud
Merry Christmas!!!
Merry Xmas congratulations on the sub's. I just put together 661 made of a blown up one and one that had a large oak impact the e carb had me scratching my head but it works keep up the great work I feel like I know you
I’ll be hitting this video a few times. It’ll click eventually. Thanks for your patients! Merry Xmas Tinman.
Great information keep up the great videos
I'm watching this as I get the port numbers for an almost unused 375K that my work was going to scrap while cleaning the yard. Going to put it back as a chainsaw instead of a concrete saw. Heard all sorts of stuff about how bad the timing numbers are because they are limited way down in rpm (a black coil will fix that😜) so far without a base gasket im at
.023 squish
102 exhaust 156 duration
124 blowdown
75 intake 150 duration
And its a 75 cc overbore.
Think it will make a fine saw with a little massaging.
Sounds like a great opportunity to learn more. Best of luck with your saw and Merry Christmas to you and yours 🤶🎅
Hey Ben that soumds like a great project!! Those numbers are pretty good!!
Nice to see you all fired up Tinman,
So thankful for you and what you are doing for the community. Not quite understanding all of it yet however, I didn't quite understand MOA when i first started shooting but one day, it just all clicked. I felt stupid for not gettin it sooner. I have an MS390 that's sitting in my garage just begging to get back to work. And believe you me . . . It needs it. Thank you again for sharing with the community
Best improvement for the ms390 is carburetion and exhaust.
Man this is awesome,
I am two saws in,
Started with small saws 3400 countervibe,
Also a ms 270 both saws for the moment are screamers, thanks for the videos. 🤘 Have a good one
I like your style Tinman!!! keep the content coming buddy!!! If i keep watching im going to buy a meteor motor and try this stuff ...
Very interesting and instructional video hope you and your family have a good Christmas.
You’ve probably opened up more minds than any hotrod show on TV. You need to teach the young kids and play with dirtbikes!
i am learning this to do somethings on moped and 2 stroke motorcycle engine... will help alot thanks man
If timing numbers are a language then I'm illiterate! Good thing Professor Tinman is having these night classes at Tinman University. Thanks Tinman!!!!!!
Thanks tin man you explain well got a 61 i fancy having a go at Electrolux ? but im going to really look at your vids your very clever keep showing us ,you and family have a nice Christmas thanks .
I like your reference to keeping your numbers conservative at 1st brother !
All the saws I've ported on the exhaust port 99 or 100 , those are good work saws , now I've ported saws that worked good by machining the piston instead of the cylider
Donny Walker just talked about that on this mornings video.
Nice vid. Really helpful. Thx and a Merry Christmas. Keep up the good work.
Great info brother! Thanks for taking the time to explain. Peace. Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas Rich
“Woods port”=“3/4 race cam” 😂🤣. All kidding aside, great video bud. My first saw I accidentally pushed the intake almost out to 160* of duration and it’s wicked but I don’t know how practical it will be, but that’s what junk free saws are for I guess🤷♂️. Hey all it’s gotta do is start, idle, and murder wood!
Hi Tinman. I'm a porter in NZ. I don't do it commercially just for myself and a few mates. I get where you are at with this video and you have done a great job helping guys out. Like you I would love to have a conversation with a group of guys and share info. I don't know anyone in NZ who does it I'm sure there must be few.
I have a 372 Meteor that I killed some years ago with an 87 Exhaust. It was generally peaky but made no power and so it got put on the wall of shame. Recently I got it down and studied it and saw some glaring errors in my thinking, run some numbers and moved my intake down to 92 ATDC. I also did a small flow correction and changed my aux transfer shape. This cylinder is now on the saw and it works extremely well as a cookie cutter. It's not a work saw nor will it ever be but its a lot of fun. It runs a 390 carb and looks totally stock but sounds and runs like a race saw. I guess I have had about 3 or 4 goes at getting that cylinder to run over the years. As you say it takes time to understand what's going on and what's the best pick to make it run.
The 372 is my pet saw. Frankly my 372's ported to 98 exhaust are seriously fast saws with strong torque. Faster than my stock 660 and 395 with a 24 bar and still faster than my 660 with a 30 inch bar. Its taken me 10 years off and on to work it all out and its nice to finally be porting at a level where I'm actually happy with the saws. The last piece of the puzzle for me is the combustion chamber and compression ratio. It maters more than we give credit. I recently got a CNC mill and I have been cutting perfect combustion chambers into stock cylinders. WOW! Huge difference! I now see why guys build there own heads for race saws.
Hey man. Where abouts in nz are ya? Just setting up my first timing wheel. Haven't known of anyone in nz porting saws until stumbling across this comment
@@jethroboorer2860 Taranaki
I have not gotten as far into the book as I'd like but I suspect that "ideal" timing numbers will change according to displacement but also how bore and stroke relate to each other, considering these are cross flow scavenging engines. I have a lot more studying to do on blow down.... it seems like there has to be a sweet spot where the exhaust exiting will create a suction effect helping to pull the charge into the cylinder, rather than relying on the charge to push exhaust out. Much to learn...
MERRY CHRISTMAS TINMAN ! GREAT VIDEO. THANKS
You build very strong saws bro good job!
Great Vid Tinman , Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas buddy!!
Great video brother and Merry Christmas to you and your family👍👍
Tinman you such a kind heart true Altruism!!!
Everyone one, please turn off the TV and turn on Tinman to help his community grow world wide!!!
Altruism Al tru ism All tru ism All true ism All-True ism. It’s all true, everything is true, it’s all true.
Hey thanks just subscribed like the info I’m new to portin myself n these are basically saw motors I’m playing with in fact it’s a super common mod to put a saw jug on these bottom ends.
Been waiting on this one.
Tinman the Magic man 👍 thanks for breaking it down
I love the vids man very helpful
Great and simple explanation TM. Luv your channel. Work on an old Pioneer P series in the near future🤞
Great videos I'll be ordering a timing wheel now. I'm wanting to do my own saws there is nobody around my area that works on saws.
Sup man, subbed Joe sent me, I just got my lathe and I'm getting into this stuff
Just a heads up on wet flow it flows different then dry or just air so what works good for a dry flow system will typically not work for a wet flow. Wet flow meaning fuel and oil or fuel. I have learned from my dads buddy on single cylinder engines for kart racing and him using a wet flow bench. I have learned that smooth surfaces is a no go in intake ports of any kind. some have gains from it me personally no the rougher the surface the better. The dimple porting for something like a cookie saw that'd constantly at its peak rpms. I have had good luck with it in saws I've built. also the spacing and size and depth of each dimple does affect flow with wet meaning fuel/oil. It helps with atomization the fuel to air mix for better combustion. The saw might load up on fuel at idle from it depending the application. If you pay attention to some stihl intake boots they have little spikes in them close together. Just a thought in things to try. it could speed up the air flow. To large of ports can slow the speed down.
Very good thoughts. I agree on everything you said. Why would stihl put ribbing in the intake boot unintentionally? And bigger is not always better. Flow is #1.
There are different ways to speed up airflow and slow it down certain turbulence is a + and certain turbulence is a -. I've gotten into the dimple porting and have had very very good luck with it with saw builds. My idea came somewhat from fishing. If you look back at some of the late 80's early 2000's spinner baits blades not the shape of the blade but the dimples on the blade. Bait companies started going this because it helped with vibrations and different shapes and sizes and how far apart each dimple is caused the blade to put off different vibrations in order to attract a large mouth or small or spot... etc it's the same concept when putting that same work into a intake port. Yes the flow speeds up as the port gets small but the air to fuel stays atomized from the demples or say a 80 grits rough surface or sandblasted surface or ribbed surface. I personally have gotten to like dimples and ribs lol makes for a better fuel burn
Hey Tinman! You would benefit from using a flow meter bench. It would help you on creating design and have a proof that it moving more air!
Tinman bro you have a great Christmas may the Lord continue to bless you bro
AMEN, AMEN ,AMEN!!! Tinman has such a kind heart true Altruism!!!
@@Finom1 he is truly a awsome human
i don't know if you covered it in another video, but maybe people would benefit from what would change if you added in a gasket. What would change if you took the squish down to 0.020. Maybe if you drew it out, it would be interesting. I guess a delete will increase compression because it is sinking the piston deeper. Sinking the piston deeper increases blowdown i think? So then when you make the lower ports flow better it brings in more fuel? On a motorcycle, when you get the tailpipe less restricted you end up changing jets or fuel mapping. Buckin' was talking to a saw guy, I think Walker, and he said that most saws will run well around 150 degrees. Very interesting.
Old buckin has built a true following
ur the Man, thks bro
Thank you
Lots of good info in this one Tinman. ''I move air at work''(poot). Sorry needed a pre Christmas fart joke. Happy Christmas to you and your family big fella. It's going to be 21degrees C here in Tassie for Chrissy, stay warm.
Im so jealous its -36c right now here..
@@tinmanssaws Wow.
Thanks for sharing your head full of knowledge! Great explanations! Looking forward to seeing the turd spittin chips! Hope y’all have a great Christmas!👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏🙏
MERRY CHRISTMAS MR SIMPLEMAN!!!!
New Subscriber Great Stuff!
Well said bud I couldn't explained it better no really I couldn't I wish I did in my last video lol.
Hi, interesting and instructional video. I'am a swed and the Husqvarna is a swedish company, but man you murder the Husqvarna pronansuation, it shuld be like [hus_kvarna] ;-)
Hey Tinman. Have you ever talked about or shown what you do or what it means to port for torque? Torque porting. How do you port for torque?
Gray videos. The old lady wants to watch movies but I like to watch this. I’m in Phoenix and don’t really even have a use for more than a once in awhile saw.
But think I’m
Going to look for one too mess with
I've only played with upper transfers once and that saw ran wild but didn't last long
LOVE THE WAY YOU BREAKDOWN EVERYTHING ,SO IT MAKES SENSE, VERY UNDERSTANDABLE HOW YOU EXPLAIN STUFF ,YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EXCELLENT SMALL ENGINES TEACHER ,WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND BEST WISHES FOR 2021 HOPEFULLY THIS COVID CRAP LEVELS OUT BY SPRING BE SAFE TINMAN
Always appreciate your comments Steve, thanks for being here buddy!!
Merry Christmas!!
@@tinmanssaws THANKS BUDDY YOU AS WELL LOOKING FORWARD TO ALL YOUR BUILDS ,MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU BUDDY
merry christmass
I found an old Stihl 017 I'm fixing to start messing with and I'm wondering if you have any "numbers" that would be a good starting point to go to.
Thank you for these wonderful videos.
thanks share this video
Hi Tinman, I've watched these videos several times over now just to get my head around it while checking the numbers on my mo chine and I really appreciate and thank you for the time that you've put in, but I don't understand how you can drop your cylinder 0,014 and yet maintain the same Transfer, Intake and Exhaust opening numbers????? Am I missing some thing?🤥
We are ready!!!!
When adding 2 degrees of intake timing, would you trim piston skirt or open the intake port. I’m afraid of loosing velocity by opening the intake port.
So on the exhaust is the rule raise it about 2-4 degrees for every saw
All good stuff Tinman, but you forgot to mention piston overhang in the intake port at TDC, if the piston skirt is lower than the intake roof it never fully opens effectively reducing the port size so if this is the situation it's sometimes better to trim the rear piston skirt to increase intake duration and also clear the top of the port. Lowering the port floor will increase the duration but the piston skirt will still be in the way at TDC making the port smaller than it could be.
Following on from my comment above, cutting the piston skirt is an easy way to experiment with intake duration, go too far with it and you've only wrecked a piston not your whole cylinder.
Thats an interesting point. I don't really worry about the skirt covering a but of the top of the port at TDC because most chainsaw pistons dwell anywhere from 3 to say 6 degrees at the top of the stroke.
The piston really doesn't move at the Point just before or after TDC so there's really no flow up there. Most of the flow occurs just after the piston opens as the case vacuum should be at its highest upon opening. Just my oppinion.
Thanks for the comment have a great day!!!
@@tinmanssaws As you've said in your videos different folk do it different ways and it's whatever works for you but I prefer to get every obstacle I can find out of the way. Bearing in mind that at 9000 rpm the air has to go through the ENTIRE ENGINE in 0.0066 of a second ( 60 seconds divided by 9000 ) my race bike engines used to go 120000. that's 0.005 of a second, from the carb inlet to the exhaust port exit.
Sorry 12000 not 120000
So if you did lower the squish down to .020 how much more would you have raised your exaust port? And would you have changed the intake more? Also shouldn’t your top ring be past your exaust roof right before the intake cracks open?
Aren't there like tools where you insert your dimension, numbers, and could get an expected outcome of torque/rpm? Just like in SOLIDWORKS or something. Would like to begin porting for myself (probably just cleaning production castings and opening them a bit up) but I'd need to have numbers from a respected porter to begin with my saw (because I haven't found any numbers for my saw yet😅)
What do you think about shaving piston skirt? Mainly 372
First 372 i ever owned had a muffler mod and skirt shaved.
is timeing to do with the flywheel??? or the piston or both???
only now am i going through these videos, plenty of views i see, imagine a few years from now. for my stock stihls for now ive only widened exhaust ports a little , tapered the exhaust side of the piston and increased the angle in the intake like Harvey showed, and simple blending inside the aftermarket cylinder and a free flowing muffler, thats as far as i dare go for now, but once i get a degree wheel it will be time for a saw that is not a clamshell.
Journey before destination!!!!
When do you have to start running race fuel , like anything below 20 thou squish ?
Greetings fellow Manitoban!! Great vid as always! I am eager to start my own porting... Any idea on a cheap saw to start on? My 390 and 562 are too expensive to learn on.
Start with any saw that you want. The first 3 I did were 026 stihls if I remember correctly.
New sub
Welcome aboard!!