@@terraSpark902 I mean from the perspective of why 55 instead of 50 like they do in later games it's most likely only because of Dragonite. There are plenty more arguments for why not higher.
What makes the Lapras with Strength even funnier is that it CAN learn Body Slam by level up at level 25, so more than likely it was used on that guy's in-game team too.
This format is literally responsible for the entirety of official competitive Pokemon, including VGC. They used Team Preview before Team Preview even existed on cartridge (Stadium hadn't released yet), and Sleep Clause as well.
Competitive Pokémon back in 1997 for me was my friends not wanting to battle my level 100 Charizard I trained through running the Elite 4 over and over again (The Charizard had Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Fire Spin, and of course: Cut)
Me and cousin glitched infinite rare candies. Whip out the full team of 6 at a level hundred I remember a kid betting me 10 bucks whipped that Mewtwo right out. Those where the days
@@mattolds9068 I loved getting beaten by my baseball teammate's somehow level 150 or so Mewtwo I still wonder if he knew some missingno nonsense back then or if it was just gameshark somehow
It was wild, we did a pokemon tourney in kindergarten one day as a kid brought in a link cable. Ended with two kids fighting over the Match and my teacher banned pokemon during indoor recess lol
In my school, there was a huge fight because a kid traded a Haunter to another kid, and then the other kid wouldn't trade back the Gengar. I remember this incident very clearly.
"To get another TM you'd have to trade for it" And remember kids, Pokemon couldn't couldn't hold items back then. So that meant trading, having the other dude use the TM, and trading back. Slow process, but it didn't feel that slow back in the day.
Ah, the old Jolteon Earthquake clip, one of my favourites from this old footage. Good to see that no matter the era people are still getting surprised by outspeeding.
In 1999, in Brazil, we used to hold our own nationals at Anime Friends in São Paulo. We had the usual tournments rules and 3 different tiers, little cup (as fas as i recall, up to lvl 20, not 5) the lvl 50 and no limit level, for a decade, we even had the elite four challenge and gym leaders and the greatest of all pokemon around 2002, was farfetch
Gen 1 had Petit cup, a little cup precursor with unevolved, physically small pokemon. That's what you're thinking of. It got usurped by little cup but petit cup was between level 25 and 30, likely to facilitate a better moveset. Little Cup IMO is just more interesting, so its not much of a loss, but its still a really cool footnote. If you had the chance to check, it would be cool to know for sure if they were the same rules as the Stadium format rules
@@leeto64Voce provavelmente vai conseguir algumas informações nas revistas Pokemon Club da epoca, eu lembro de ler sobre esses desafios aos líderes de ginásio nela
"Sending in a postcard is a ridiculous signup method compared to tournaments today." While true, Japan *LOVES* their lottery systems for many things. Concert tickets, reservations at popup cafés, almost anything is fair game for the lottery draw.
@@jemmabean You are probably correct. The original broadcast almost certainly looked cleaner and clearer than this footage. This looks like it's suffering from a lot of VHS artifacting.
It's nice to see some talk about the actual literal players of the older era, not just the old games. There is a wealth of info people aren't aware of, just takes fishing through some Japanese resources.
It's wild how little color people are wearing in the crowd. A modern US event like this would have tons of bright colors everywhere interspersed with black, one of those crowd shots has a single guy wearing yellow and everyone else not on stage was grayscale. Maybe the camera doesn't pick up muted colors, but even then it's striking.
They do have a saying that "the outstanding nail must be hammered down" when it comes to being different and drawing attention in school or work. So yeah, probably everyone dressed about the same industrial standard tones or did cosplay 😂
To be honest if you're worried about stall (and you probably should be if you're trying to run a tournament) then you can have a match timer like in the current VGC. Actually I wonder what a match timer would be like in singles on showdown
This is so cool. Theres so much gaming history on the cusp of being lost forever and channels like this are so important to the preservation. Thanks so much!
There's a few nitpicks I have about your video though. For instance, electric types aren't good because Rhydon is bad. Electric types are good because they have some of the most important match ups, stats, and speed control against the most important pokemon. Rhydon is arguably under rated in NC97 in fact
uhm nope Rhydon sucks and dies to a Blizzard spammer, let alone if crits. Dugtrio is better despite worse stats at least it has enough speed to guarantee a hit
I remember growing up playing blue and using the infamous rare candy glitch to get my mons to lvl 100. I remember my friend telling me that doing so would make my pokemon weaker than if I naturally trained to lvl 100. I didn't realize it back then, but that was my first exposure to IVs and EVs
In a Meta Game where the top players use Tauros, Articuno and Water types, fast Electric Pokémon were able to cripple those Pokémon via PRZ. Today the top threats are not Water types or Flying so you see less Electric Pokémon except Jolteon and Zapdos.
The bring 6 pick 3/4 thing pretty much only exists in Game Freak tournaments for the sake of time. Playing on battle simulators speeds up turns several times over. You can squeak out a 75 turn match in 6v6 singles on Pokemon Showdown faster than you can a 10 turn 4v4 Doubles match on cart.
it also allows you to play bo3 and bo5 sets much more easily than you can with Smogon formats, both thanks to the shorter length, *and* the fact that you don't need to build multiple teams (assuming teamlock like VGC), since you can still diversify your strategy in every individual game. To be honest, playing Bo5 sets of Bring6Pick3 pretty much addresses all of the issues people might have with it, and turns it into the best Singles experience IMO.
Pokemon could very easily speed up their game by just having the text boxes describe more than one thing at a time. I.e. instead of of "Pokemon used X!" "It's Super Effective!" "Pokemon Fainted" "Pokemon was hurt by hail" "Pokemon was hurt by hail" You could do "Pokemon used X! It's super effective!" "Pokemon fainted." "Pokemon and Pokemon were hurt by hail" It's crazy they haven't done that ever. Even if it's a concern of like, kids not keeping up just have the text box last like 20% longer or have a combat log like a crpg, so I can go back and see what happened if I looked away.
@robertocioffi2523 I feel like that's the worst of the two options because they're still wasting text boxes and that affects the game clock and can lead to missing more info.
An alternate universe metagame sequence where later generations carry over the 155 limit based around level 50-55 pokemon would be really interesting. For example, which pokemon are we bumping up to level 55 in generation 3 when you have to choose between Tyranitar and Salamence in your group of three? Which three pokemon are the best overall choices, and what counterpicks are overall good enough to make the team of six? Or pull from Pokemon Stadium's crazy metagames and bring Pika Cup to modern gens. What modern pokemon are equivalent to monsters like Gyarados and Alakazam? Do they keep the level 15-20 max 50 as the only entry barrier, or do you replicate Little Cup and only allow the lowest evolution forms? Edit: forgot Salamence evolves at 50, so that wouldn't even be a consideration.
Imagine this in gen 5+ where you end up seeing people run something ridiculous like eviolite Dragonair to fit multiple psuedo-legendaries on their teams.
We are getting old, man. I get myself thinking that Pokémon Unite should have a mod without skins, because Pokémon get super colorful and that flashes me bad...
I enjoy pokemon as a franchise, and many gens are some of my favorite RPGs ever. Gen 1 just hits different. Watching the anime from episode 1 in real time as a kid made this world unlike anything else. The competitive metagame being played (albeit niche) almost 30 years later is insane. Tetris, smash bros, street fighter, and pokemon are some on a small list of multi generational competitive scenes.
@koreandictator4605 iirc there was EDIT: just checked, here were the rules: Single battle (of course) 3 per battle 6 per entry 10 minute battle time Total level 155 Level range 50 to 55 Sleep clause self ko clause Species clause. So no species repeats
So, so, so many people forget that (especially pre-Gen 5) Gamefreak was not balancing for Smogon. They don’t know and don’t care about it. Gamefreak had their own formats. Snorlax especially at the time was not good in the official format, though he’s better by now even in there. That’s why he got buffed. Look at the Stadium Games, 1 and 2, look at Gen 3’s battle tower, look at Colosseum. We had official meta games even back then, they just didn’t they promoted much. Even this video kind of buries the league and ignored OU is fanmade. We have official western formats with rules in Stadium and on a few old websites.
When you think about it, Jynx was an amazing Pokémon in Gen 1 than: it can't be frozen but can freeze others AND is part Psychic too, the strongest type in the game back then.
I love how early on in the lifespan of this game the number of the things these kids were able to figure out. The core normal types, the concept of practical move coverage, the importance of every resource in game. A surprising amount of what they cobbled together is still relevant today.
Because a toddler can figure this shit out. Pokemon has super young age divisions for their competitive format. It's not super hard to grasp prediction, tempo and typing chart.
@@Goldeneye3336 those are not the concepts I was mentioning specifically though. The fact that you see the core of early OU in a lot of these teams is pretty neat, and a game is as difficult as those who play it make it.
@@Goldeneye3336 congrats on your next VGC or IPL title I guess? I play melee and starcraft dude, there’s all kinds of ways to measure skill. Very odd thing to get hung up on.
It's easy when you are told it on the Internet (or back then more likely in a magazine). I really had difficulty understanding how Counter and Substitute worked when I was a child for example. Even the Special Stat confused me, I thought it was for critical hits and added effects for a while (based on Alakazams critical hits and Psychic Special drops lol).
This was such a cool video! I like how they interplay of TMs and leveling played a role in the stratergies. Back when I was playing Red I couldn't even read yet 😂
9:12 Some interesting things on this chart of the team: Natures did not exist in gen 1 and IVs are called DVs and work slightly differently,. I'm guessing this is templated from more modern Pokemon and that Serious Nature was chosen as it is one of the 5 neutral natures.
@@susear5939 yeh indeed. I believe Porygon 2 and Porygon Z also didn't get any showtime in the anime right? Poor Porygon, he didn't do anything wrong 😢
I forgot Starmie looked that fire in the ol' blue and red version, some sprites were real impressive to this day for that being such an early time. Some still hold up too.
9:30 would that Starmie really have zero special (attack) under gen 1 mechanics where there is only the one special stat? I'm genuinely asking, because I'm not sure how that would translate into modern mechanics.
DVs and IVs act the same for determining the range your stats can be. A Special DV stat of 0 is equivalent to a Special Attack IV of 0 for modern comparison. In gens 1 and 2, there was Stat EXP instead of EVs, which meant you could max every stat out instead of just specific stats. None of the Pokemon had maxed stat exp or max DVs for that matter, but stat exp could've helped cover up Starmie's Special DV of 0, especially since none of your opponents would have maxed out stats either.
All I knew as a kid is that Vitamines were good and that ko'ing wild Pokemon gave more stats overall than rare candies. XD which was already more than 90% of the playground I played in.
2 minutes in and I know why Jinx is SSS teir. I don't like playing at level 50 for the same reason why I personally don't like playing little cup; level 50's take more damage. The issue is more prevalent in little cup but the concept remains the same. It doesn't matter if the stats even out, the base power of moves is static, and level 50 pokemon aren't really designed to tank blizzards, they are more expected to get hit by icebeam. Add in the fact that there are 5 levels that you can distribute as you want (This is probably due to EVs not existing yet, honestly training a team like this ingame with DVs being a thing sounds miserable, like grinding level 5 geodudes to level 50 or some shit) I imagine level 55 jinx spamming blizzard shredded things. Jinx is already pretty decent in gen 1 but her issue is that she just doesn't do quite enough damage and folds on the clap back. Tauros and Snorlax loose a lot of bulk by playing at level 50, which was a big reason why they were so good. 7:00 this was played on gen one green and red so they had access to MissingNo. glitch, to duplicate items. Not sure how well known it was in 96, I know me and my brothers abused it to teach everything earthquake that could learn it. I literally restarted my save file once we figured it out because I already used a bunch of TMs. That's also how we kind of found out about DV's. We didn't know how it worked exactly but we knew that a pokemon grinding the elite 4 to level 100 would be stronger than a pokemon that just ate rare candy to level 100. I believe we thought it was something to do with the game telling us not to eat candy all day.. From an unintended glitch the devs had no idea about lol
I wish there were more active tournament formats where TMs are finite and levels are budgeted. It would make a lot more pokemon viable and there would be even more creativity in team building & strategy. I also think it's an interesting idea to have opponents know each other's pokemon pool from which they can select a sub-team from each round.
I did not realize ice types couldn't be frozen in Gen 1. I feel like I know Gen 1 pretty well, but it seems like I'm always finding out new little things.
I knew about Body Slam and Normal types since the 00's (they tell you in Pokemon Stadium 2 that they changed it for Gen II). One of my big regrets is not being the one to alert Smogon about it, I just kind of assumed they must have known.
Idk why, but when I played as a Kid Pearl, Plat and later XY Online, most japanese Players always had many Water Pokes. I dont mean 1 Water in your team, more like 4/6 or 6/6 Water types only lol
I have to wonder: was duping items with the Missingno glitch known back then? It would have solved the single use TM issue and granted some better stats by duplicating stat drugs.
In practice it wasn’t as bad to look at on a small monochrome screen with no backlight, but when scaled up and with proper screen light it’s definitely an eye strain. Made even some of the weaker attacks look cool as hell, though.
@@Ratty524 Yeah I prefer them that way, it's just pretty over the top at the same time lol. It's possible the gameboy light, that JP exclusive one could've caused some eye strain for sure, and especially the Super Gameboy, which runs the games at like 62FPS or something. Basically it's faster, so the flashing would be faster. You notice higher pitched music/sound. Anyway, ya not on a GBC or gameboy pocket or something, no lights as you said
Something interesting would be to see any of the times the stats not being maxed out mattered. Like if someone else would’ve won the tournament had their tauros been a couple speed higher
I 100% agree that was the meta in the west, but we got the games in 1999 with those glitch informations available from 3 years of gameplay in Japan. I'm not sure missigno was widely known over there 2 years before. It depends on whether or not it was published as a marginally risky, but self-contained exploit in some magazine.
Interesting that players opt double team. I used a Jynx in gen 1 and it was lovely kiss, substitute, blizzard, psychic. I feel like the substitute would actually work better than double team in a tournament.
substitute is not very good in rby because it doesn't block thunder wave/sleep. in stadium they made it block all status moves and it became much better as a result
Lol idk how anyone wasted TM in gen 1 when we had Misingno Unlimited Items glitch 😂 i had all the TMs i ever needed, i just saved them until i got to cinabar to multiply them
jynx is actually OP in gen 1 ou to this day. if youre lucky she can easily 3 for 1. crit blizzard chunks for huge, freeze rolls, counter ohko's, best sleep move. . . . if she had recover she'd probably be uber.
Recover wouldn't make Jynx Uber. It would make it arguably better than Alakazam and still generally worse than Starmie. There's a reason why Jynx is only considered the tenth best Pokemon in OU, a currently fourteen Pokemon tier.
@@davidacus956 UA-cam has a feature for creators to supply multiple thumbnails when they upload a video. Behind the scenes UA-cam will run small experiments by showing different thumbnails to different people to find out which gets the most clicks. Because of this the thumbnail might seem to have changed, but it's not due to the creator manually doing so.
Hey, new here 😊! Just wanted to let you know that a seizure warning should be in place at the beginning before the rapid flashing. I have a seizure disorder (on meds) and even the short amount of time of flashing gave me a headache. Luckily I got passed that and enjoyed the content very much :) Ive been playing since RBY and base most of my team around Hisuan Arcanine and normal Arcanine lol.
Pokémon was definitely at its best when it was new and people hadn’t figured everything out yet. Took em like 20 years to get a 3D game and it STILL feels like it’s programmed on the original Gameboy.
I've used the item duplication glitch so many times now I hadn't even considered limited TMs, this being so early in the games' lives would this have been before it was even discovered?
I always feel like in these tournaments they should play on 3D Stadium graphics...2D for accessibility and quick training is good, but for the show at least in the finals go 3D holographics! Let that thing take off.
Holy shit, what move is that at 1:35? I don’t remember that animation in the English red and blue versions. Looks like something that can potentially cause seizures.
I just want to say, I didn't look again to verify but I am a genwunner who's usually pretty well researched about the games-- I'm almost certain Gen 1 did not HAVE IVs. It DID have EVs, but they didn't follow the same mechanics that they used from Gen 2 onward (though it was a similar concept). And I'm almost certain that it was widely believed/known(?) that Pokemon were stronger by how they were trained (items like Calcium/Carbos/Iron/Protein were around) but the exact science behind it was NOT widely available and any info provided by online forums and magazines alike were pretty unreliable. I would think most people who made the tournament at the national level, even pretty early on, were able to figure out the exact mechanics of EVs. I can tell you for CERTAIN that someone figured out the way the byte memory sequences to hack the Missingno glitch to customize exactly the glitches they want to their team at a LOCAL tournament I went to for Gen 1. Me and every kid I knew how to exploit it for infinite Rare Candies. We may have been more primitive, but at least some people sure weren't dumb.
Also, as far as Missingno glitch shenanigans-- Electrode with 3 health bars And Selfdestruct only removes one of them. Don't think that would have been allowed at this here Pokemon Cup but just saying, outside of even the more regularly discussed wonky mechanics of Gen 1, it was definitely shakier code all around. And yet it was so beautiful because nothing before it had ever actually made a game that matched the hype of the designs and marketing. Thanks for the nostalgia trip!
ivs did sort of exist, but they were called dvs, the main difference between them is that ivs can range from 0-31 while dvs only range from 0-15. as for evs, the main difference is that you could max out all your stats rather than having a limited amount of points to invest. while people had some vague idea of what evs were back then, people didn't fully understand how they worked. in gen 1, you can't max out your evs with just vitamins alone, they cap at a certain point and the only way to increase them further is through training. most of the players didn't have maxed out evs at the time, so it's safe to assume they used vitamins and thought the stats were maxed out when they weren't.
That’s crazy you’re telling me that the first ever tournament was singles? It looks so different from tournaments nowadays cause the format the world plays is vgc and it is doubles where team synergy and best evs are what decides matches. I was very impressed by the person who won the tournament you can tell he had a strong team for the time and he was probably one of the first team builders in history. The origin story of competitive Pokémon reminds me of competitive fornites origin story and how one person and discord server changed that game forever the difference is that fornite was way past postcards at that point. That tournament reminds me to be grateful that rental teams and codes can be found online cause I feel like competitive Pokémon would be much more difficult to get in to without the resources today similar to how fornite and other games would not exist without internet.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Pretty sure the reason Pokemon could be up to level 55 was purely so that players could have Dragonite on their team.
That rule also effectively bans Mewtwo since it could only be encountered at level 70.
Not purely
@@terraSpark902 I mean from the perspective of why 55 instead of 50 like they do in later games it's most likely only because of Dragonite. There are plenty more arguments for why not higher.
@@homerman76 it's lv50 to 55 for accessibility and for strategic purposes, which there are many. I've been playing this format for years.
@@terraSpark902soooo.. such as? Because they're completely correct that's the reason 😂😂
What makes the Lapras with Strength even funnier is that it CAN learn Body Slam by level up at level 25, so more than likely it was used on that guy's in-game team too.
Is that true in Red/Green??? Or was that an update for Red/Blue????
@@TheDeathmailas far as Bulbapedia says, it never got a moveset alteration in Gen 1.
Another explanation for this could be that one might prefer a blizzard freeze over a slam para. Probably not but that could justify it
@@TheDeathmail Red and Green was exactly the same as Red and Blue moveset wise, only Yellow was different.
Aww, you go in game team Lapras :)
This format is literally responsible for the entirety of official competitive Pokemon, including VGC. They used Team Preview before Team Preview even existed on cartridge (Stadium hadn't released yet), and Sleep Clause as well.
Stadium being a deliberate, competitive patch is under-appreciated
team preview is dumb.
@@polocatfansomeone relys on cheap gimicks to win
How so? @@polocatfan
@@polocatfan in what way?
3:41 that is horrifying. Imagine blizzard being scald, but you die if you get burned.
Basically 120 BP with 30% ohko chance
@@olivergro7105completely worth the low ish accuracy
@@homerman76 its 90% in gen 1
@@homerman76 its 90% in gen 1 so thats not even that inaccurate
@@thest0mpa still unpleasantly inaccurate, but yeah very useable accuracy. Better than Fireblast even
Competitive Pokémon back in 1997 for me was my friends not wanting to battle my level 100 Charizard I trained through running the Elite 4 over and over again (The Charizard had Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Fire Spin, and of course: Cut)
Same. Fire spin just keeps going
Me and cousin glitched infinite rare candies. Whip out the full team of 6 at a level hundred I remember a kid betting me 10 bucks whipped that Mewtwo right out. Those where the days
@@mattolds9068 I loved getting beaten by my baseball teammate's somehow level 150 or so Mewtwo
I still wonder if he knew some missingno nonsense back then or if it was just gameshark somehow
It was wild, we did a pokemon tourney in kindergarten one day as a kid brought in a link cable. Ended with two kids fighting over the Match and my teacher banned pokemon during indoor recess lol
Sounds about right
Those demons are influencing the children. Ban those Satan spawns from school.
@@IamMeHere2See👌
In my school, there was a huge fight because a kid traded a Haunter to another kid, and then the other kid wouldn't trade back the Gengar. I remember this incident very clearly.
@@meanbeanmachine LMAO tbf a lot of adults would probably do the same
03:03 Imagine getting your whole team swept on live tv 😭
Honestly, would have been hype to watch
2:44 not freezai explaining the concept of television 😭
I feel so old
crazy to say how valid and warranted doing this is these days
im gonna crumble into fucking dust any minute now
Turn to Christ @@LiliGasanj
@@changyanwang1625Turn to Christ
Kids only know Rizz TikTok nowadays
"To get another TM you'd have to trade for it"
And remember kids, Pokemon couldn't couldn't hold items back then. So that meant trading, having the other dude use the TM, and trading back. Slow process, but it didn't feel that slow back in the day.
Wouldn't the MissingNo glitch work on TM's or was that not known at the time?
@M0NK3Y42 you could totally do that. Some would consider it "not the legit way".
Also not sure how known it was. Very known in my school.
Ah, the old Jolteon Earthquake clip, one of my favourites from this old footage. Good to see that no matter the era people are still getting surprised by outspeeding.
In 1999, in Brazil, we used to hold our own nationals at Anime Friends in São Paulo. We had the usual tournments rules and 3 different tiers, little cup (as fas as i recall, up to lvl 20, not 5) the lvl 50 and no limit level, for a decade, we even had the elite four challenge and gym leaders and the greatest of all pokemon around 2002, was farfetch
Gen 1 had Petit cup, a little cup precursor with unevolved, physically small pokemon. That's what you're thinking of.
It got usurped by little cup but petit cup was between level 25 and 30, likely to facilitate a better moveset.
Little Cup IMO is just more interesting, so its not much of a loss, but its still a really cool footnote. If you had the chance to check, it would be cool to know for sure if they were the same rules as the Stadium format rules
tem mais informações de como eram esses torneios de 1999? adoraria compilar um histórico e fazer uma análise de como seria a cena, mais a fundo
@@leeto64Voce provavelmente vai conseguir algumas informações nas revistas Pokemon Club da epoca, eu lembro de ler sobre esses desafios aos líderes de ginásio nela
@@leeto64 tem nas pokémon club
That sounds like to me they were based on the Pokémon Stadium formats. Up to L 20 is Pika Cup, L.50 is Poke Cup, L.100 is Prime Cup.
あたしの以前のポケモンチームでは、「ダブルチーム」へのカウンターとして「スピードスター」を使っていました。絶対にミスしないので、便利でした。相手は予想していませんでした。また、「ルージュラ」も非常に便利だったので使用しました。
"Sending in a postcard is a ridiculous signup method compared to tournaments today."
While true, Japan *LOVES* their lottery systems for many things. Concert tickets, reservations at popup cafés, almost anything is fair game for the lottery draw.
Man, that CRT effect never ceases to take me back...
That's just VHS video quality 😅
@@jemmabean You are probably correct. The original broadcast almost certainly looked cleaner and clearer than this footage. This looks like it's suffering from a lot of VHS artifacting.
It's nice to see some talk about the actual literal players of the older era, not just the old games.
There is a wealth of info people aren't aware of, just takes fishing through some Japanese resources.
It's wild how little color people are wearing in the crowd. A modern US event like this would have tons of bright colors everywhere interspersed with black, one of those crowd shots has a single guy wearing yellow and everyone else not on stage was grayscale. Maybe the camera doesn't pick up muted colors, but even then it's striking.
Color wasn't invented in Japan until 2003.
They do have a saying that "the outstanding nail must be hammered down" when it comes to being different and drawing attention in school or work.
So yeah, probably everyone dressed about the same industrial standard tones or did cosplay 😂
The OG
I really wish they would make singles competitive as well. I understand stall would be a problem but it be nice to see singles tournaments.
To be honest if you're worried about stall (and you probably should be if you're trying to run a tournament) then you can have a match timer like in the current VGC.
Actually I wonder what a match timer would be like in singles on showdown
I believe Stall got hugely nerfed in Gen 9
@@Kanbei11 their is a match timer but it's more for player inactivity
@@axr1798 it was but it's still a pain to deal with
@@axr1798 It did, but Stall isn't dead. But definitely reduces how many people run it
This is so cool. Theres so much gaming history on the cusp of being lost forever and channels like this are so important to the preservation. Thanks so much!
A great shoutout for these formats is that they are available in the Japanese version of Pokemon Stadium
There's a few nitpicks I have about your video though. For instance, electric types aren't good because Rhydon is bad. Electric types are good because they have some of the most important match ups, stats, and speed control against the most important pokemon. Rhydon is arguably under rated in NC97 in fact
uhm nope Rhydon sucks and dies to a Blizzard spammer, let alone if crits. Dugtrio is better despite worse stats at least it has enough speed to guarantee a hit
I remember growing up playing blue and using the infamous rare candy glitch to get my mons to lvl 100. I remember my friend telling me that doing so would make my pokemon weaker than if I naturally trained to lvl 100. I didn't realize it back then, but that was my first exposure to IVs and EVs
In a Meta Game where the top players use Tauros, Articuno and Water types, fast Electric Pokémon were able to cripple those Pokémon via PRZ. Today the top threats are not Water types or Flying so you see less Electric Pokémon except Jolteon and Zapdos.
The bring 6 pick 3/4 thing pretty much only exists in Game Freak tournaments for the sake of time. Playing on battle simulators speeds up turns several times over. You can squeak out a 75 turn match in 6v6 singles on Pokemon Showdown faster than you can a 10 turn 4v4 Doubles match on cart.
it also allows you to play bo3 and bo5 sets much more easily than you can with Smogon formats, both thanks to the shorter length, *and* the fact that you don't need to build multiple teams (assuming teamlock like VGC), since you can still diversify your strategy in every individual game.
To be honest, playing Bo5 sets of Bring6Pick3 pretty much addresses all of the issues people might have with it, and turns it into the best Singles experience IMO.
Pokemon could very easily speed up their game by just having the text boxes describe more than one thing at a time.
I.e. instead of of
"Pokemon used X!"
"It's Super Effective!"
"Pokemon Fainted"
"Pokemon was hurt by hail"
"Pokemon was hurt by hail"
You could do
"Pokemon used X! It's super effective!"
"Pokemon fainted."
"Pokemon and Pokemon were hurt by hail"
It's crazy they haven't done that ever. Even if it's a concern of like, kids not keeping up just have the text box last like 20% longer or have a combat log like a crpg, so I can go back and see what happened if I looked away.
@@getthegoonsor maybe put a 2x button
@robertocioffi2523 I feel like that's the worst of the two options because they're still wasting text boxes and that affects the game clock and can lead to missing more info.
@@getthegoons maybe yeah
Based on the stuff I know about Japan, I guarantee they didn't pick players out of a hat, they selected them based on the caligraphy of the post card.
This is amazing, thank you for this video and thank you to all the people who took the time to research and document this event!
That 1997 drip at 2:11 is perfection
Colder than a 30% freeze blizzard 🥶
Looks like how young Gen Z and Gen Alpha dress today lmao
He's wearing the Shawn Kemp reebok sneakers
An alternate universe metagame sequence where later generations carry over the 155 limit based around level 50-55 pokemon would be really interesting. For example, which pokemon are we bumping up to level 55 in generation 3 when you have to choose between Tyranitar and Salamence in your group of three? Which three pokemon are the best overall choices, and what counterpicks are overall good enough to make the team of six?
Or pull from Pokemon Stadium's crazy metagames and bring Pika Cup to modern gens. What modern pokemon are equivalent to monsters like Gyarados and Alakazam? Do they keep the level 15-20 max 50 as the only entry barrier, or do you replicate Little Cup and only allow the lowest evolution forms?
Edit: forgot Salamence evolves at 50, so that wouldn't even be a consideration.
Imagine this in gen 5+ where you end up seeing people run something ridiculous like eviolite Dragonair to fit multiple psuedo-legendaries on their teams.
Also this would be an effective ban on several of the best gen 5 mons like Volcarona, Hydreigon, and both birds of prey prior to B2/W2.
Idk how children didnt get their eyes tired of all those flashes effects
Easy, you don't get tired if you're unconscious after having a seizure 😅
The gameboy had no backlight back then, so the tiny screen was much darker
@@maxspecs oooh okay that makes sense
Episode 38 reference is crazy
We are getting old, man. I get myself thinking that Pokémon Unite should have a mod without skins, because Pokémon get super colorful and that flashes me bad...
I enjoy pokemon as a franchise, and many gens are some of my favorite RPGs ever. Gen 1 just hits different. Watching the anime from episode 1 in real time as a kid made this world unlike anything else. The competitive metagame being played (albeit niche) almost 30 years later is insane. Tetris, smash bros, street fighter, and pokemon are some on a small list of multi generational competitive scenes.
Bro this was awesome! Thank you for this video!
If I'd go back in time, i would bring 6 tauroses and smash down this whole tournament
is there not species clause
@koreandictator4605 iirc there was
EDIT: just checked, here were the rules:
Single battle (of course)
3 per battle
6 per entry
10 minute battle time
Total level 155
Level range 50 to 55
Sleep clause
self ko clause
Species clause.
So no species repeats
There were rules back then
No species doubles dude 😂
@@dungeonpastor i'm not dumb, dude, that was a joke from me XD
So, so, so many people forget that (especially pre-Gen 5) Gamefreak was not balancing for Smogon. They don’t know and don’t care about it. Gamefreak had their own formats. Snorlax especially at the time was not good in the official format, though he’s better by now even in there. That’s why he got buffed. Look at the Stadium Games, 1 and 2, look at Gen 3’s battle tower, look at Colosseum. We had official meta games even back then, they just didn’t they promoted much. Even this video kind of buries the league and ignored OU is fanmade. We have official western formats with rules in Stadium and on a few old websites.
I really enjoy these old formats back before everything was number crunched and figured out like a science.
Well Snorlax was actually strong in gen2 stadium meta but was invalidated hard by shit like 30% freeze in the first Nintendo Cup format.
CoroCoro... Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time.
Cool, I'm glad you included the Dugtrio footage
When you think about it, Jynx was an amazing Pokémon in Gen 1 than: it can't be frozen but can freeze others AND is part Psychic too, the strongest type in the game back then.
I wonder if anyone tried to abuse glitches like Dig/Fly+Paralyze invulnerability
yes, dig zam was a known set at the time, and it isn't very good
@@dongmeiling Hey there
This is where I have to learn Alakazam learns Dig
@@senny- of course he learns dig, he's got two spoons
Bro is a prison escape artist
@@Ninelivescat8993 lmao!
3:09 what the hell was that
This is like comparing Samurai war tactics vs Fusilier war tactics my god
I love how early on in the lifespan of this game the number of the things these kids were able to figure out. The core normal types, the concept of practical move coverage, the importance of every resource in game. A surprising amount of what they cobbled together is still relevant today.
Because a toddler can figure this shit out. Pokemon has super young age divisions for their competitive format. It's not super hard to grasp prediction, tempo and typing chart.
@@Goldeneye3336 those are not the concepts I was mentioning specifically though. The fact that you see the core of early OU in a lot of these teams is pretty neat, and a game is as difficult as those who play it make it.
@@Materialist39 not at all. The game is not difficult. Pokemon has no reactivity required. Only planning and decision making.
@@Goldeneye3336 congrats on your next VGC or IPL title I guess? I play melee and starcraft dude, there’s all kinds of ways to measure skill. Very odd thing to get hung up on.
It's easy when you are told it on the Internet (or back then more likely in a magazine). I really had difficulty understanding how Counter and Substitute worked when I was a child for example. Even the Special Stat confused me, I thought it was for critical hits and added effects for a while (based on Alakazams critical hits and Psychic Special drops lol).
This was such a cool video! I like how they interplay of TMs and leveling played a role in the stratergies. Back when I was playing Red I couldn't even read yet 😂
I absolutely want to see that deep dive into the 2000 world championship! :) cant sub twice though
9:12 Some interesting things on this chart of the team: Natures did not exist in gen 1 and IVs are called DVs and work slightly differently,. I'm guessing this is templated from more modern Pokemon and that Serious Nature was chosen as it is one of the 5 neutral natures.
Epilepsy warning at 4:02
I dont even have it but boi thems some flashy screens, my eyes no like.
Thunderbolt was dangerous on the gen1 cardtridge too it seems
They fixed the Thunderbolt animation for our Western Red and Blue version, making it less flashy.
@@xTheLemon well they had to after the episode 38 fiasco. Poor Porygon got completely banned because of Pikachu.
@@susear5939 yeh indeed. I believe Porygon 2 and Porygon Z also didn't get any showtime in the anime right? Poor Porygon, he didn't do anything wrong 😢
@@xTheLemon yeah. 2 & Z didn't get any showtime either. I think at most the line has received a few frames in the latest gens' animations.
'learnt' ko'd me while I was still reeling from the 1-2 'strenth'
I forgot Starmie looked that fire in the ol' blue and red version, some sprites were real impressive to this day for that being such an early time. Some still hold up too.
Whats up with that Pikachu at 2:05?
Cute
I’d love a deep dive into the history
9:30 would that Starmie really have zero special (attack) under gen 1 mechanics where there is only the one special stat? I'm genuinely asking, because I'm not sure how that would translate into modern mechanics.
DVs and IVs act the same for determining the range your stats can be. A Special DV stat of 0 is equivalent to a Special Attack IV of 0 for modern comparison. In gens 1 and 2, there was Stat EXP instead of EVs, which meant you could max every stat out instead of just specific stats. None of the Pokemon had maxed stat exp or max DVs for that matter, but stat exp could've helped cover up Starmie's Special DV of 0, especially since none of your opponents would have maxed out stats either.
All I knew as a kid is that Vitamines were good and that ko'ing wild Pokemon gave more stats overall than rare candies.
XD which was already more than 90% of the playground I played in.
Starmie looks pretty cracked in this format. A psychic type with Recover that outruns Tauros.
not so much. Body Slam Tauros can cripple it and Tauros can learn Thunder
2 minutes in and I know why Jinx is SSS teir. I don't like playing at level 50 for the same reason why I personally don't like playing little cup; level 50's take more damage. The issue is more prevalent in little cup but the concept remains the same. It doesn't matter if the stats even out, the base power of moves is static, and level 50 pokemon aren't really designed to tank blizzards, they are more expected to get hit by icebeam. Add in the fact that there are 5 levels that you can distribute as you want (This is probably due to EVs not existing yet, honestly training a team like this ingame with DVs being a thing sounds miserable, like grinding level 5 geodudes to level 50 or some shit) I imagine level 55 jinx spamming blizzard shredded things. Jinx is already pretty decent in gen 1 but her issue is that she just doesn't do quite enough damage and folds on the clap back. Tauros and Snorlax loose a lot of bulk by playing at level 50, which was a big reason why they were so good.
7:00 this was played on gen one green and red so they had access to MissingNo. glitch, to duplicate items. Not sure how well known it was in 96, I know me and my brothers abused it to teach everything earthquake that could learn it. I literally restarted my save file once we figured it out because I already used a bunch of TMs. That's also how we kind of found out about DV's. We didn't know how it worked exactly but we knew that a pokemon grinding the elite 4 to level 100 would be stronger than a pokemon that just ate rare candy to level 100. I believe we thought it was something to do with the game telling us not to eat candy all day.. From an unintended glitch the devs had no idea about lol
worth warning for all the flashing
I wish there were more active tournament formats where TMs are finite and levels are budgeted. It would make a lot more pokemon viable and there would be even more creativity in team building & strategy. I also think it's an interesting idea to have opponents know each other's pokemon pool from which they can select a sub-team from each round.
This was awesome. I would really appreciate coverage on RBY and GSC competitive scenes. Especially in the historical context. Subscribed : )
I did not realize ice types couldn't be frozen in Gen 1. I feel like I know Gen 1 pretty well, but it seems like I'm always finding out new little things.
Normal types also cannot be paralyzed by Body Slam, which I think went undiscovered for way longer than it should have.
@@NeightrixPrime That was another one I found out about not all that long ago. Gen 1 really had some wild things programmed into it! 😁
I knew about Body Slam and Normal types since the 00's (they tell you in Pokemon Stadium 2 that they changed it for Gen II). One of my big regrets is not being the one to alert Smogon about it, I just kind of assumed they must have known.
This was a beautiful video to learn the history of the game i love so much
Yes please do the next one just the same 🎉🎉
Great quality content - stuff people wouldn't know if it wasn't for the video
Idk why, but when I played as a Kid Pearl, Plat and later XY Online, most japanese Players always had many Water Pokes. I dont mean 1 Water in your team, more like 4/6 or 6/6 Water types only lol
I have to wonder: was duping items with the Missingno glitch known back then? It would have solved the single use TM issue and granted some better stats by duplicating stat drugs.
Dude the flashing in Japanese Thunderbolt is ridiculous like wtf were they trying to give people seizures lol
In practice it wasn’t as bad to look at on a small monochrome screen with no backlight, but when scaled up and with proper screen light it’s definitely an eye strain. Made even some of the weaker attacks look cool as hell, though.
@@Ratty524 Yeah I prefer them that way, it's just pretty over the top at the same time lol. It's possible the gameboy light, that JP exclusive one could've caused some eye strain for sure, and especially the Super Gameboy, which runs the games at like 62FPS or something. Basically it's faster, so the flashing would be faster. You notice higher pitched music/sound. Anyway, ya not on a GBC or gameboy pocket or something, no lights as you said
Yooo Freezai with a banger! Let's go bro
Something interesting would be to see any of the times the stats not being maxed out mattered. Like if someone else would’ve won the tournament had their tauros been a couple speed higher
So cool and fascinating. Thank you!
Nice to see a video about this, I look forward to battling you in the tournament soon. I've been playing Nintendo Cup 1997 for years
Nintendo Cup rules are the same as Poké Cup rules in Stadium (2 in Japan)
Pokemon is old enough there might be fans who don't even know what a postcard is.
You can find Chansei in Mewtus cave. Not sure if it looses any attacks thought
The Chansey in Cerulean Cave spawns at level 56, which means that it wouldn't be legal in this format hilariously enough.
its lvl 56 idiot
I'd love to hear about what the gen 2 equivalent was like
Now this a video, big shot
I’d like to see a video on the 2000 Pokémon championship
Zooms-zooms like Freeze don't know that us old timers duped all our TMs with the missingno glitch
Or we just Gamesharked legal moves on there. :P
Facts
I 100% agree that was the meta in the west, but we got the games in 1999 with those glitch informations available from 3 years of gameplay in Japan.
I'm not sure missigno was widely known over there 2 years before. It depends on whether or not it was published as a marginally risky, but self-contained exploit in some magazine.
i highly doubt people were doing that in 97
@@JungleCrook probably around 99 or 2000, where missingno was more well known.
Interesting that players opt double team. I used a Jynx in gen 1 and it was lovely kiss, substitute, blizzard, psychic. I feel like the substitute would actually work better than double team in a tournament.
substitute is not very good in rby because it doesn't block thunder wave/sleep. in stadium they made it block all status moves and it became much better as a result
Lol idk how anyone wasted TM in gen 1 when we had Misingno Unlimited Items glitch 😂 i had all the TMs i ever needed, i just saved them until i got to cinabar to multiply them
Really cool analysis.
totally want to see that 2002 Pokemon championship documentary!
jynx is actually OP in gen 1 ou to this day.
if youre lucky she can easily 3 for 1.
crit blizzard chunks for huge, freeze rolls, counter ohko's, best sleep move. . . .
if she had recover she'd probably be uber.
Recover wouldn't make Jynx Uber. It would make it arguably better than Alakazam and still generally worse than Starmie. There's a reason why Jynx is only considered the tenth best Pokemon in OU, a currently fourteen Pokemon tier.
@@TheShinyFeraligatr say what you want, but i know the truth.
jynx is actually uber. doesnt even need recover really.
@@Michael_Dominic based
@@PlaguevonKarma
The limited knowledge of deeper Pokémon mechanics such as IVs and EVs back then made me realize how much we take this stuff for granted these days.
How would you trade TMs? Pokemon can’t hold items
I assume you would teach the TM inside the game and then trade the pokemon back
Bit ironic to have the new Jynx design in the thumbnail for a video about how it was in 1997.
Are you the reason he changed the thumbnail?
@davidacus956 youtube has a feature like netflix where they can use multiple thumbnails, and it will automatically change to the most successful one.
@@davidacus956it still has the new jynx wdym
@@davidacus956 UA-cam has a feature for creators to supply multiple thumbnails when they upload a video. Behind the scenes UA-cam will run small experiments by showing different thumbnails to different people to find out which gets the most clicks. Because of this the thumbnail might seem to have changed, but it's not due to the creator manually doing so.
@@tarunyadav3567 It was definitely something else when I clicked on the video. Am I the reason he changed it back?
great video as always freezai. the thunderbolt flashing is a lot for eyes, maybe add a warning or darken the screen next time please :)
Hey, new here 😊! Just wanted to let you know that a seizure warning should be in place at the beginning before the rapid flashing. I have a seizure disorder (on meds) and even the short amount of time of flashing gave me a headache. Luckily I got passed that and enjoyed the content very much :) Ive been playing since RBY and base most of my team around Hisuan Arcanine and normal Arcanine lol.
I love learning about such history from Pokemon and yugioh
the only tournament were competitors didn't cheat to get perfect pokemons
Nintendo Cup are such underrated formats, NC2K also rocks
9:27 you mean "Special"
Excellent video
The vibes looked like everyone was having so much fun.
Nowadays world championships look quite stale in comparison.
Pokémon was definitely at its best when it was new and people hadn’t figured everything out yet. Took em like 20 years to get a 3D game and it STILL feels like it’s programmed on the original Gameboy.
Lapras as a metagame dominator in '97.😊
Damn, I really miss those days.
I've used the item duplication glitch so many times now I hadn't even considered limited TMs, this being so early in the games' lives would this have been before it was even discovered?
Nintendo cup 97 is the best metagame because Jynx is the best pokemon there
Very cool video!
I always feel like in these tournaments they should play on 3D Stadium graphics...2D for accessibility and quick training is good, but for the show at least in the finals go 3D holographics! Let that thing take off.
pokemon stadium wasn't out at the time. there were two more gen 1 tournaments after this (nintendo cup 98 and 99) and they were both played on stadium
Holy shit, what move is that at 1:35? I don’t remember that animation in the English red and blue versions. Looks like something that can potentially cause seizures.
that's thunderbolt, when pokemon blue came out and the games got localized they toned down the flashing lights on a lot of move animations
2:05 The girl cosplaying as Pikachu looks so cute OMG! 😭😭💕
Nice narration and scripting
I just want to say, I didn't look again to verify but I am a genwunner who's usually pretty well researched about the games--
I'm almost certain Gen 1 did not HAVE IVs.
It DID have EVs, but they didn't follow the same mechanics that they used from Gen 2 onward (though it was a similar concept).
And I'm almost certain that it was widely believed/known(?) that Pokemon were stronger by how they were trained (items like Calcium/Carbos/Iron/Protein were around) but the exact science behind it was NOT widely available and any info provided by online forums and magazines alike were pretty unreliable.
I would think most people who made the tournament at the national level, even pretty early on, were able to figure out the exact mechanics of EVs.
I can tell you for CERTAIN that someone figured out the way the byte memory sequences to hack the Missingno glitch to customize exactly the glitches they want to their team at a LOCAL tournament I went to for Gen 1.
Me and every kid I knew how to exploit it for infinite Rare Candies.
We may have been more primitive, but at least some people sure weren't dumb.
Also, as far as Missingno glitch shenanigans--
Electrode with 3 health bars
And Selfdestruct only removes one of them.
Don't think that would have been allowed at this here Pokemon Cup but just saying, outside of even the more regularly discussed wonky mechanics of Gen 1, it was definitely shakier code all around.
And yet it was so beautiful because nothing before it had ever actually made a game that matched the hype of the designs and marketing.
Thanks for the nostalgia trip!
ivs did sort of exist, but they were called dvs, the main difference between them is that ivs can range from 0-31 while dvs only range from 0-15. as for evs, the main difference is that you could max out all your stats rather than having a limited amount of points to invest.
while people had some vague idea of what evs were back then, people didn't fully understand how they worked.
in gen 1, you can't max out your evs with just vitamins alone, they cap at a certain point and the only way to increase them further is through training. most of the players didn't have maxed out evs at the time, so it's safe to assume they used vitamins and thought the stats were maxed out when they weren't.
@@cebolimhagameplays6740 Yessss there it is, my memory of it all isn't perfect but that's a great explanation. That's right, I was thinking of DVs.
That’s crazy you’re telling me that the first ever tournament was singles? It looks so different from tournaments nowadays cause the format the world plays is vgc and it is doubles where team synergy and best evs are what decides matches. I was very impressed by the person who won the tournament you can tell he had a strong team for the time and he was probably one of the first team builders in history. The origin story of competitive Pokémon reminds me of competitive fornites origin story and how one person and discord server changed that game forever the difference is that fornite was way past postcards at that point. That tournament reminds me to be grateful that rental teams and codes can be found online cause I feel like competitive Pokémon would be much more difficult to get in to without the resources today similar to how fornite and other games would not exist without internet.
Double battles didn't exist until gen 3.
interesting.
I miss old pokemon vibes it is just different.
7:15 uhh no one on the team has body slam though ?