These are wonderful speakers that I have never properly amplified to capture their full capabilities. I have purchased some Parasound JC1's to help run them in extended mode. They are functionally some of the first dipole speakers on the market as they are dipole'd from 700 to 10KHz. Run in a home theater set up with kappa 6.1's running as the rear set. Very nice.
I've owned a pair and the cabinets are a work of art. And they need power, back in the day they didn't have or hardly had any amps that could drive them. These days there are plenty of high power amps and the more power you throw at these speakers the better they sound. I'd like to hear a pair McIntosh 1.2 pushing these. 😁
I had 3 pairs by now,I still have the entire 2 series just about. I have to say I find the kappa 8 the better choice overall speaking. The k9 is just to demanding regardless of amp choice. And a speaker that needs a huge room. They definitely benefit from space
I love these speakers, I bought a set new in 1989 and I am still using them as my primary set. I had to upgrade to a set of Parasound Amp's to keep these feed but it was worth it. I wish Infinity would have survived, even their RS line was really good for the money.
I had both series complete and the rs I had all the way up to the rs1b . The Kappas imho easily leap in quality the rs. The only RS I really liked was the rsII and even then the polypropylene woofers. We're not even close to the img woofers of the kappas in performance. The kappa 9 is just a ridiculous demanding speaker, in many ways it's a speaker that never should not have been on the market. The 0.8ohm dips that speaker has is just ridiculously taxing on any system you put on it. For no other reason than a little bit more low end (using resistors) in its path to realize it. From a technical design ?! The Kappas especially older 8 and 90 are just very unconventional and definitely not that great. That being all said as nudell loved to overcomplicate his crossovers. If you get the right room and set of amps for them they can really sound good. I've never heard a kappa 9 even with 1.5kw fed per side sound stellar. But that's really because the speaker has also huge room demands. I tell most people to avoid the 9 and go for an 8 and even that once measured 1.3ohm at certain frequencies. There were way better options today... However I still have my kappas . There is something unique and special about them there is no denying. Some nostalgia creeps in, these speakers are slowly crawling towards 40 years old now They still ask plenty for them , so there is definitely a big fanbase for them. Me myself I'll probably never run an 9 again due to the issues it created in my room. It's just to big and too demanding. Doesn't take away , it a legendary series speakers. That still posses a certain amount of wow factor in any listening room. Aesthetically they're one of the most beautiful speakers ever built to me. Wished they didn't go with particle board cabinets. But I get it, it's an era thing was super expensive at the time I reckon. But the design is absolutely gorgeous from a n aesthetic point of view
I have 2 pairs of these and am the original owner, I got them directly from Steven Rowey from the Chatsworth factory. He was VP at the time. He recommended the DBX-BX1 to drive them, he got me a deal on the amps too directly from Newton MA. I have yet to ever hear a better sounding speaker. I have my 1st pair Bi-Amp'd with 2 DBX's in extended, and my other paid are in normal mode with a Adcom GFA-585. They do ok on that amp as well. The DBX makes the house lights dim, they dont clip and the speakers can shake the house apart.
Ohh yah definitely needs power, the speakers from a technical point of view are not that great. The crossovers are a hot mess , but it's also what makes kappas...kappas. I am a huge fan of kappas. My main system uses a pair of kappa 8's and have been ever since wonderful to me. The 9 is one I avoid hence forward, it's too taxing even tho my (main set up) runs then with ease (to put in reference here 200lbs of class a/b ) amplifiers that drove them. It's still a speaker that's just not great in any system with that 0.8ohm impedance curve. They should have done that better design wise. And they are a bit to big for my space.
I have had the original 8's and 9's. To me, when properly amplified are amazing and very difficult to match at the price point of $1600 to $2000. The problem is especially with Kappa 9's you will spend an additional 2k to hear them at their best. And you can do much better at that price point.
I have had the rs1b (4 tower system) aswell, the kappa 9 has some huge hurdles to overcome. The prices today are way to high for them (nearly 3k set price not even touched) I've had the rs1b,rsII,rs4,kappa 6,8,9, ren80, qe, rsB (still have that one) kappa 8.1,kappa 5.1,kappa 6.1 And all that at the same time 😂 sold most of them last year. When the market started to inflate ! I drove mine with 100 pounds of class a/b without any strain. They need a tremendous amount of space 10ft away will not cut it. They have a 0.8 impedance dip that's just not a great thing at all. People tend to forget that the kappas were a budgetary speaker. In the realm of infinities for sure . The low end is not that great really for the size they are. I wished Arnie nudell made them 1k more expensive and went with servo controlled low end. I've had 3 sets by now and I always liked them alot (my dad had them in black since I was a kid) . I still have a kappa 8.1 I will not seperate from, just great bang for your buck. The kappa 9 I do not like over the 8 I find the 8 the better speaker. Its low end in the more generic room sizes was proven to be a better fit. The tweeters are placed at ear height and not above you as with the k9 (I used to tilt them forward) the amount of current needed to run a kappa 9 Doesn't make it a wise choice for the new guy around the block. Like you said you need to be invested in proper amplifiers. My amps cost MSRP $4800 each. And those were more than able to drive the kappas without any issues. And you're 100 percent correct it becomes a very costly speaker as a whole ... I will buy another one sooner or later but most definitely not at the stupid high prices I seen.
@@MichelLinschoten Absolutely, I was trying to explain that to a lot of the new guys that are powering them with Class D Crowns or some of the mid-fi high wattage amps that yes, they will power them, but as you mentioned it takes a lot of money to hear them at their best, that's just fact, and not about wattage as it is current. Like you I have had most of what you named besides the 1B which I have always wanted lol. As audiophiles we will likely never be totally satisfied lol.
I own a set of these Kappa 9's for decades. In fact, they sit at the front of a full Kappa home theater set up. I have them bi-amped using Bryston amps, & I'm running a Bryston 1.7 Preamp/Processor. I love these speakers, but have always been curious to learn if there might be a tastier option that doesn't double as a coffin.
I just sold another set for a substantial amount of money. I have the entire series complete including a 8 now aside from the 8.1 I have. I am selling most of them honestly as I have currently the 500l (see channel for that video) running . And I must say lovely speakers . With a much smaller foot print. The kappas are beautiful speakers and always will have. Warm place with me I've had 3 sets by now.
@@vincentthompson3662 I have thoroughly enjoyed them for many years. I also have many friends who are avid audiophiles who are big fans of my system. You must, however, be able to accommodate their considerable size.
I have two sets of RS IIIa's. The best thing I have ever done was passive bi amp them. I then added a QSC CX254 (4 channel, classic A/B) amp(s). Really brought them to life. The bass is so good I dont use a sub woofer and the high end can sing and send all the ohms back to the amp without an issue.
I have a set of Kappa; 8's, 9's, and a set of IRS Beta's, and a few years listening experience now. You really need to bi-amp any of them. First try my 280 wrms Perreaux won't even drive the 9's on its own in normal mode. I find the IRS's the hardest to tame, now I run them and the 9's together. 6 amps to do that. I'm sure you can imagine the nightmare to get that sounding right in quite a small room. I love the look of these, and if you are truly patient, they will sing for you... Thanks for the review, still I don't just listen to Infinity :-)
I walked away from the IRS beta I had a chance to buy them (offmarket 8k) from a good friend of mine that has two betas and upgraded to the irs v . I had at the time (also on my channel to hear/see) the magnepan Tympani I, which exceeded by a good margin the IRS beta lemims. So for me it was a matter of "do I want to spend the 8k on them" and I walked away from the offer. There is no denying I ever prefer the IRS beta over the IRS v in many ways (I had the privilege to hear them both) the only system I've heard over the IRS beta that I would go for over the beta is the Genesis 200/201. There is no doubt in my mind whomever owns the beta , has a speaker for life with them for sure. So you're definitely a lucky man So I am very familiar with them,I also had the rs1b for a while (I restored them , controller had a left channel hum) and sold them with in 20 min being on the market place they were gone. The kappa 9 in all reality is a flawed design from the ground up. The crossovers causes the impedance dip (0.8ohm ) I drove mine upstairs (in my main room not what you see in the video) with 2.4kw per channel . And with 200lbs worth of class a/b too. So driving them ? I can drive virtually any speaker you can throw at me. I find the kappa 8 a far better speaker than the 9 I had 3 kappa 9's that I've restored and sold ,I have two sets of 8 that I won't part from. They just sound alot better and are a lot better on my equipment too. The reasons for me are simple, the k8 is more geared towards the average sized room. I had no standing wave issues plus they spec literally the same as the k9 (it's 3hz difference on the low end) that's the only difference between the 8 and 9 spec wise. It doesn't opposed a ridiculous impedance dip (1.8ohm measured on the DAT sheet) vs 0.8ohm the 9 does just to push low end out of them. Also if your perreaux doesn't drive them on normal mode. There is something really wrong with your amp ?! Or just not your taste as in normal mode the speakers are almost linear 4 ohm and above And should not oppose ANY issues for your amp. So that could just be a mismatched amp for them. I will always tell people you want a good kappa without to much hassle get the 8 or 8.1.(which even sounds better IMHO for also several reasons I won't go into right now ) They are way better geared to listening to music without all the hassle the 9 brings with them. Sounds I am hating them, I don't but I do restore speakers , and from a technical point of view. Kappas (especially the 8 and 9) are riddled with questionable design choices
Great video - always love to see some discussion on the Kappa's. I bought a set of Kappa 8's on closeout back in 1990. Still have them and still love the sound. Polydomes are cloudy of course but not cracked (yet). Bought a backup set from AVA "just in case". When I first got them they routinely shut down my Denon 50 W/ch integrated amp I had at the time - obviously I learned the hard way about speaker impedance characteristics. Upgraded to the Adcom GFA-585 (the old one from the 90's) which eventually suffered from the leaking capacitor issue. Currently running them with a Parasound Halo A21+ and am seriously considering bi-amping them as they do seem to get better with more power.
You had to send a set of polydomes in to get Ava to fix them right? Or am I wrong, I spoke to Bob a couple times (through Facebook) he has a rather long waiting list. I just got some Midwest replacement fabric domes. I will address that in a next video just to show you guys the differences. Because there are a few that a note worthy. I woops debate that the kappa 8 is a better speaker vs the 9 on many areas. Enjoy them , not stating they are bad the 9 but a very demanding speaker in many ways.
@@MichelLinschoten I got lucky and he happened to have a pair in stock (this was a few months ago). Will be interesting to see your video on the fabric domes. There does seem to be some debate as to whether the 8's or 9's are better. I imagine part of it is that the 9's are so difficult to drive properly it might be hard to have a fair comparison.
@@doctrined the 8 has a couple advantages for sure over the 9 power demand aside. My biggest conundrum with the k9 is the tweeters. They are ridiculously high up in the baffle. I did a couple extensive auditions, with the Midwest fabric domes and I will make a video today . As I felt , I need a few days to come to certain conclusions. Instead of jumping the gun and make a video about it. But you're not wrong , the k9 is most definitely not a beginners speaker. You have to be dedicated to them (as you clearly did, very good amplifiers you use btw) I will record a video today and post it later in today for sure.
@@MichelLinschoten I hadn't thought about tweeter height on the 9s before, but makes sense. The 8s are about the perfect height for sitting in normal easy chair, with the 9s you may need a barstool! I guess one advantage of the 8 over the 9 is you only have to re-foam 1/2 the number of woofers - lol. Dedication is probably the correct way to put it, it's either commit to suitable amplification or change speakers.
I'm running a pair of 8.1s with 2 of the newer Adcom GFA 585se. Each speaker is bi-amped with both amps running 450wpc per side high and low for a power of 900 watts rms per side. You want to talk about blown away! They are simply the best speakers that I have ever owned and I have owned a ton of different speakers over the years. Yes if you under power them they will simply kill most amplifiers as they play down to 2 ohms and lower. I recommend at least 250 watts per channel high current amplifier to really make these things bring out their full potential. These people posting videos hooking these up to receivers aren't doing them any justice at all and they will learn the hard way as they will burn up most amplifiers that are not high current and two ohm stable.
I am familiar with its cheaper brother the 4004 and they are hands down excellent quality amplifiers. Glad you enjoy it , that's what it's all about really.
Great listening. The large number of speakers in Kappa 9 emphasize the vanity for the better. Compared to a box with individual speakers. Question please I am looking for new amplifiers. Do you think a Macintosh MC 611 will fit the Kappa 9. Thanks
Hello Michael. Im from Germany and i Love the Kappa 9 Speakers. I am searching for somebody who know Something about the different Crossover Designs from 1987 to 1989. I know there where 4 or 5 Changes in the Crossover until the K9 was Made. But i dont know exactl what Changes and why... Maybe you can Help me. Thanks a Lot
I've had 4 sets in total there were 0 crossover changes that I know off made. They were all identical, the crossover in the kappa 9 is a hot mess. Just being honest,very cheaply made and comes with a ton of issues from a technical point of view. But by my knowledge and having to had a good few of them. Never seen anything different between them.
This is the first time I heard a full soundstage this is exactly what I hear with my kappa 8s. I am playing these with the emotivo base x300 power amp now I'm ready to switch that to the Gen 3 2 channel Power amp
Ohh yah great gear btw emotiva! As you know the kappas do like some solid current able we equipment I wonder how you experience switching the power amps . Nice set up man
I didn't have much luck with Emotiva and Kappas, yes, they power the kappas but believe me, the better the amp, the better they sound. It's not about watts, it's about stability at 4 ohms and below as the OP explained the impedance dips are insane. I have a friend that swears he powers his kappa 9's with a vintage 30w tube amp. He is coming in town in 3 weeks so I will verify that then.
@@andrewwood9067 I have the 8s but believe me emotivo can power the 9s also what power amp did you have.emotivo is made by one of the guys that was with the original makers of infinity.
@@vincentthompson3662 I'm def not implying that Emotiva is cheap, it's a nice amp, I'm just saying it does not have enough low current to drive 9's correctly. With 8's the dips are not nearly as bad. I bi-amped with the x-300 and it was nice, I'm just telling you that there are levels to just how good those speakers can sound, and most people never find out. I've seen Haflers, Bryston's etc costing 1000's fall short, All Kappas are also meant to be bi-amped, it's the way Nuddell intended. You would do better buying another x300 and bi-amp
Hi… I saw a pair for sale here in Argentina but I concern about all you talked. I have a nord acoustic class d amp (450w/ch) and a pair of valve power amplifier. I want to bi amp. The issue of the low impedance I think is only for the woofers, right? So I will be fine in the upper range with the valve amp?
Yes correct , the impedance dip is around 0.8ohm , class d should be able to handle that dip. And tube is actually allegedly what Arnie nudell himself strongly suggested to run the kappa 8 and 9 with solid state on tbe woofers. Tube on the mid high, I'd reckon you have a stellar combo there to run your kappas! Very nice 👍
Definitely possible if anything tubes can handle strange impedance curves. As far as my knowledge goes, Arnie nudell always recommended running the kappa 8 and especially 9 solid state on the low end. And tubes on the upper mid section.
@@MichelLinschoten Correct, but some folks and I have tried it and have found it to better tube on the full range. I need to rebuild mine before I put it to the test.
Ohh yah and let's face it if the impedance is really an big issue . Just run them "normal" but you do give up on some low end. In case if the k9 just being unbiased here had 4 sets of 9 by now. As much as I love them , they are not speakers that low end have alot to say in terms of definition. The later series II sounded to me a lot better (tighter and more natural) being a vented monopole . My series I k8 compared to my 8.1 is a night and day difference
@@MichelLinschoten I have not had issues on the low end. Spark 810 or McIntosh 70 pushed the woofers without a drop of sweat, much better and easier than with solid-state designs. This must be due to the fact that between the output transformer and tube, the loudspeaker is connected in the form of a resistor. If u disconnect it it would be a direct short. Therefore only some ma are required to get them to moderate volume levels ( guess 8mw) and 8W is still loud. 70 or 80W blow will knock your socks off.
McIntosh used auto formers it's what makes them virtually impervious to impedance drops and rises. The thing is the k9 on my given space I get better results using my subwoofers. Than the k9 by itself, I think I don't have enough real estate to fully enjoy them. The tweeters are also to high up in the baffle. Which for my ears made them super directional (I tilted them forward) I still want to score a kappa 9.2 one of these days 😊 ,I am extremely fond of kappas. So definitely not hating or talking them down. But the good old 9, really has a set of unique demands to get it right. As someone else here said before, if you need to spend a ton on an amplifier to get them to sound remotely good. They are definitely not worth the price point they go for in the end. He has a point, my amps (ATI ) just the power supplies by themselves weight 97lbs of each amp. I had 0 issues running the kappas , I think it's more of a space issue there too and the low end just can't reach its potential in my space. I had them in a huge open space before and I walked immediately into standing wave issues.
So I have a set of Kappa 6s and a room that depth wise is a little smaller than yours. I would really love to know your thoughts on your set of K6. Any thoughts you had before the repair and definitely after the repair would be welcome. I thought about a set of Kappa 9s or even the 8s for my space but will likely settle for the Renaissance 80s if I ever find a pair close to me. And I think as far as the Kappa 6s go due to size and money I'll stick with those long term. But do tell! How would you compare the Kappa 6 and the Kappa 9 performance wise in a smaller room. And do you think the Kappa 6 are good enough in general when speaking of others like the Renaissance 80s, Kappa 9, and even the RS1s. Love to hear your thoughts.
@@MichelLinschoten appreciate your response will be waiting for that one. I’m actually sending my polydomes to millersounds in a few weeks. Any reason you choose to go with Bob Douglas instead of Bill from Millersounds. Thanks again and can’t wait for the reviews….keep them coming.
@@edwinfabre1 yes, I have them both miller sound do sound a bit more "warm" less aggressive than the original polydomes. Bob Douglas reversed engineered the original material used to make the polydomes. So it's literally, as accurate to the original material and sound (his measure almost identical withthe original ones) I pulled a Miller sound apart , and will go more in depth about that in other video for sure. As these drivers are very important in the kappa series. And many are available, I will also install the replacement domes in the k6 and make a video tomorrow.
The Ren 80's or 90' s are a step up from the Kappa series. They have EMIM drivers which are on another level.. They are expensive to fix and harder to find though. Your Kappa 6's are nice speakers. I have the 8's and Crescendo's, I would put your money into good amp's instead of moving up
@@drewdrew7968 I was going to comment on this. As a neutral observer, I think the EMIMs are inferior. I own a pair of Ren 80s that I gave to my father. I can say that the sound is not as pleasant as the Kappa. I am not saying that the Rens are bad, but I do not think the EMIMs are suited for that application. I love the ribbon tweeters but not the mids. Both Kappa and Rens are nice speakers though.
I had Carver I am not a fan of his solid state silver 7t amps. His silver seven tubes are just amazing but way beyond my financial means. I heard the tubes drive the IRS beta mid/high wings .. Pretty amazing.. the kappa 9 (according to nudell) is best driven. By using a good solid state on the low end and tubes on the mid high. I believe nudell was a huge advocate of audio research. I use ATI I never had the urge to change my amps for any reason. By now I sold all my infinities 😁
I have considered it , but seen the complexity (aka pain in the royal ass) it is to do them. I refrain from doing it, there is 0 imbalance between channels . They also in the same room (not in the one, as seen in the video) measure identical. In all reality, will it benefit the speakers. Maybe , is it worth pulling out this crossover. Desolder 14 drivers (total) take apart the sandwiched crossover and then find caps that will fit. Is a known issue with them, let alone Inductors. On the high end they use polycaps they don't need any revision. The low end you could go air gap , however you'd windup with a crossover that will not fit internally that massive. It's been done before it involves a massive overhaul . And it's a speaker with a certain complexity to it especially crossover wise . As you can tell .....aslong as it plays good,measure right I won't go there as of now.
I've ways than them "flat" I hear no difference really otherwise. But that could be because I didn't play to much with the l pads. They are always just flat
To me it misses the finesse of my class a/b , albeit it's a excellent for sure way to drive these speakers ) crowns can do it hands down( But it does miss the more relaxed nature of my other amplifiers. It seems more controlled (it's hard to explain without sounding like a overly compensating audophile)
I tried a Crown Amp when I passive bi amped my RS IIIa's. Was not a fan of its sound and of its size. Found a QSC CX 254 and never looked back. Classic A/B, 4 channels at 250 watts per channel at 4 ohms and pretty much can dip down to the floor without issue if needed. Just have to make sure you leave all the dip switches for filters and clipping off.
I'll address that room in a later video it's a storage/test room . Not my main set up which consist of way different hardware speakers included 😃 But yes you're not wrong, that room needs lot more to get right ..
Crown class d have atrocious treble. They modulate noise. NOT high fidelity. Carver TFM amps can be modified by Neilion audio of Michigan to be able to drive the Kappa 9. Everyone that has done this has nothing but praise for this combination.
Not a carver fan at all , my ATI's shit all over carver easily. I had carvers in them and sold them within the week. I wasn't impressed with them at all (in my main listening room) crown has its place but indeed I agree not the finesse to run a speaker with our requirements.
@@MichelLinschoten Oh not at all. You obviously never heard them in upgraded form. ATI modules are ok, but generic, and second rate compared to the upgraded carver, which shit on ATI.
Yah nah ...I'll take that test all day long with you. Lexicons, outlaw , monolith , Crestron and tons more use ATI build topology/designs. Carvers anything transistor never got traction. Bob is known for his tubes , most definitely not for his transistor work. And as far as a carver pissing on a 100lbs class a/b ATI ... Nah, also crown would be used on purely the low end because of the 0.8ohm impedance dip. Not on the mid high , these speakers in all reality would never be sold today being the way the crossovers are designed
You can run 2 amps per speaker. Go price another speaker high audio in that alone. You'll spend thousands of dollars on them. Has anybody priced used and new high audio speaker in the performance of these. You have to have high dollar amps and a big room to get the performance out of them. High dollar amps to run a high dollar speakers. I've heard alot of speakers and these Kappa 9 makes it happen. You have to get the rite audio people to fix um. These speakers takes alot of power to run them. Not to many amps can pull it off. Or back a few years ago. The electric bill will go up a pretty bit. To judge them rite u have to hook them up with a 1 big power amps or at least 2. I'd run 4. But who could afford that. 1 amp alone would break most people's bank in the working class.
We had 200lbs class a/b ati amplifiers on (in my main system) on it. we measured a amp draw of 8amps, my amps have no issues driving them ... At all 48000uf per channel capacitance (exceeds krells, and most upper end amps) and the power supply is 2.4kva per amp Power was never the issue on them on my end. The kappa 8 we deemed a way better fit in our room. In the video is the storage room with a setup to make videos in it. That's most definitely how we ran them I had 3 sets of kappa 9's so definitely not hating. Of which I restored 2 myself with original parts, emit diaphragms (Bob Douglas , American vintage audio) The series II kappas sounded a good bit better, we unfortunately are still looking for a 9.2 to compare with a older k9 and I current have the 8.1 in my main system my kappa 8 series 1 is in my secondary system
You can't go back at the price they was at 1989. Value of money goes down. 3,000.00 $ ain't much money in today's value. The wooden cabinet is worth that. Go buy wood in that design today.. 3,000.oo $ is cheap for today's prices and market.
The are particle boxed speakers, that cost virtually nothing. I've build an array for 300usd (16x6.5inch polypropylene woofers), houses in 1.5inch thick doulas pine baffles (not the particle stuff actual wood) coupled to one set of emit r tweeters. Easily outdoing the kappas mid range all day long especially in size. That doesn't mean it's a bad speaker , but trust me when I say this. The majority cost of most speakers does not lay in the parts it cost to build one. Also keep in mind I still run in my main system kappas , just not the 9 I have them pretty much all. And definitely love them.
@MichelLinschoten the design is the key here. To be that size measurements is something else. I couldn't come out trying to make them like that. And the oak wrap around. Be hard to find somebody to copy that at a cheap price. Whatever they did. Is pretty good to me. Mine look as good as the day I got them.
Ohh definitely! I think if you look at design fitting your system and definitely room you're onto something! Also people need to learn stop buying with your eyes. Use your ears and understand that your ears and room don't care about MSRP prices. Or how exotic your big monster of a speaker is made out of adamantium dipped in gold shavings just to give it an audible edge. Acoustics is where it's at but also IMHO ? Synergy! Some equipment just doesn't mesh well with other gear. And some gear (and this is not going to price) just matches wonderfully. I am actually making a video soon about that as I am currently having a tube amplifier here. We got some interesting results from it ..
Nobody said that at all..., they ask 2500-3400 for them, to put that in perspective. That's how much I bought my infinity rs1b for. Let's not go there in comparison (in a video you can see the rs1b in the background
I disagree I didn't only use crowns. I had even an rs1b quad amped with class a/b. They don't need as much power at all the K9 it's just a resistor that caused the impedance issues it's a flawed design hands down. You can easily revise those crossovers in normal mode you can drive them with anything just about. The 8th is a way better speaker for many reasons , it specs pretty much the same as the kappa 9. I only had 3 sets of k9 , ren80, every rsII rs1b what have you not. We tried tons of amps it had nothing to do with power And for your information crown outdoes McIntosh on power numbers. 2.4k in mono for crown xls2502 without any sweating
@@MichelLinschoten I had a McIntosh MC 2500 . Run those 9s on that and they will sound incredible. I ran them on a crown macrotech 1200. No contest , the Mac amp ate the crown for breakfast. Put them on a 200 watt amp and they sound terrible. Kappas need a class a/b amp or you aren’t really hearing what they can do. Crowns have a lot of power, but it’s Dirty power.
We had 200lbs (just the power supply ) of ati amps on them at one point class a/b . I had McIntosh in the past in combination with Sonus faber , and magnepans so definitely not new to it. The 9 is a speaker that has a lot of requirements. The crowns do not deliver "dirty power" this is actually well documented all over the internet and measured. So define "dirty" I agree I am not a huge class d fan. But driving the low end I the K9 with crowns has absolutely no affect in terms of dirty on the mid high (which we always have driven with class a/b) You also assume that amplification is the issue. It's not, I restored 3 sets of kappas 9's and just pulling the crossovers. Betray the many shortcuts taken with them. Inductors in close proximity, cheesy npe caps and poly switches (tweeter protection pull those you gain actual upper end quality) those wear out. The low end was a shortcut cheap passive way they went for. Which is fully understandable. As nudell wanted them to be servo controlled, but that would have put the kappa 8 and 9 in a way beyond reasonable price category (he mentioned that in a interview for a hiding magazine) ... The kappa 8 specs literally the same as the kappa 9 , the reason why the k8 has better chances with most people to work better. Space requirements, the K9 even in our biggest space 700sqf or so we walked into standing waves. The tweeters are to directional , so having them at sitting position nearly 5ft up in the baffle doesn't benefit them at all. We had no issues driving them at all with any amp we hung in it, we measured 8amp pulls on the low end at full war strength without any amp buckling. Especially not our ati power amps, those we used regularly to power the rs1b to that requires quad amping. And safe to say makes the kappas look like child's play on the amplifier end of things. So powering them was never an issue, Also you had a crown 1200 We used a crown xls2500 that is literally the most powerful crown in the xls series currently made. 440 watts x 2 at 8 ohms 775 watts x 2 at 4 ohms 1200 watts x 2 at 2 ohms 1550 watts x 1 at 8 ohms in bridged mode 2400 watts x 1 at 4 ohms in bridged mode. also I want to point out WATTAGE HAS ZERO TO DO WITH quality really, you don't need even close to these type of numbers to run any speaker really. Unless you're filling an venue with a pa rig. Kappas 8 and 9 recommended minimal paper isn't even 200w ... A good 200w class a/b that can deliver it with current overhead will run them. And at thd levels way below human hearing. Not to mention, the power demand never even got close to the numbers the crown can deliver. 2ohm stable, way less amps can handle kappas and have. Just sharing what we have done and how we experimented with them and nauseum . With a wide variety of equipment (as class a/b is my main go-to always has been)
Hallo Michel, ik heb met veel interesse je reviews over de kappa's bekeken. Ben momenteel zoekende en twijfel over aanschaf van de kappa 9 of 9.2. Nu lees ik dat er volgens jou betere en tevens goedkopere speakers zijn (in verhouding tot de kappa's neem ik gemakshalve even aan) en ben reuze benieuwd welke je bedoelt. Vriendelijke groet uit Groningen
De 9.2i is stukken beter de emit R is superior over de oudere emits. Om nog maar niet tebeginnen over de mid-bass couplers de 9.2 en 8.2 hebben dezelfde couplers als de renaissance 90, sigma en epsilon. We klinken stukken beter Dan de polygraph in mijn oren
Dude, these speakers are OVERDESIGNED (yeah, there is such thing in engineering). First, they have way too many drivers and way too complex cross-over which is inefficient - at that times, with the materials and components available, they just could not make efficient drivers and crossovers, especially that complex. THAT IS WHY THE SPEAKER DEEPS SO BADLY TO 0.8OHM (Depends on the bass extender switch). Don't be proud of it, don't brag on it "ohhh, these speakers are hard to drive" - it's BAD. If u look at the specs of modern speakers with the size of 11" / 12" driver's, you won't see them go below 3 Ohms because modern designs are much more efficient and much more musical too🫵 in fact, even high-end speakers dont go often beyond 3-Way. 4-Way is already rare in the high-end market because complexity and over-complexity in Speakers is the arch-enemy of musicality❗️The INFINITY Kappa is just a show-gimmic of "look how many drivers I have, look how big I am" and there is a reason why this brand doesn't really exist anymore. No speaker today should ever go below 2ohms, it's just very inefficient and impractical. It's a bad design with look and feel in 1st priority (which is not appealing today anyways) . Nothing really about sound. Large speakers like these are difficult to integrate in a small listening space like u have. They will never dissappear in your listening and will always impose their sonic artifacts on u saying to you "we are here". If you are seriously looking for the sound of classic-speakers but with modern refinement, control, textured and detailed sound - you should look for BBC Speaker designs which have been proven over time❗️even up to this date. The BBC designs are at the heart of modern brands such as Spendor, Harbeth and Stirling. infinity KAPPA isn't one. The KAPPA is just a bad design. And it's way too big for your room regardless of how badly and inefficient they are🫵
You make a lot of blanket statements, which I definitely won't address. I agree with some of your statements regardless of your rather assumption based "rant" so it seems.
These are wonderful speakers that I have never properly amplified to capture their full capabilities. I have purchased some Parasound JC1's to help run them in extended mode. They are functionally some of the first dipole speakers on the market as they are dipole'd from 700 to 10KHz. Run in a home theater set up with kappa 6.1's running as the rear set. Very nice.
I've owned a pair and the cabinets are a work of art. And they need power, back in the day they didn't have or hardly had any amps that could drive them. These days there are plenty of high power amps and the more power you throw at these speakers the better they sound. I'd like to hear a pair McIntosh 1.2 pushing these. 😁
I had 3 pairs by now,I still have the entire 2 series just about.
I have to say I find the kappa 8 the better choice overall speaking. The k9 is just to demanding regardless of amp choice. And a speaker that needs a huge room.
They definitely benefit from space
Very true.
I love these speakers, I bought a set new in 1989 and I am still using them as my primary set. I had to upgrade to a set of Parasound Amp's to keep these feed but it was worth it. I wish Infinity would have survived, even their RS line was really good for the money.
I had both series complete and the rs I had all the way up to the rs1b .
The Kappas imho easily leap in quality the rs. The only RS I really liked was the rsII and even then the polypropylene woofers. We're not even close to the img woofers of the kappas in performance.
The kappa 9 is just a ridiculous demanding speaker, in many ways it's a speaker that never should not have been on the market. The 0.8ohm dips that speaker has is just ridiculously taxing on any system you put on it.
For no other reason than a little bit more low end (using resistors) in its path to realize it. From a technical design ?! The Kappas especially older 8 and 90 are just very unconventional and definitely not that great.
That being all said as nudell loved to overcomplicate his crossovers. If you get the right room and set of amps for them they can really sound good. I've never heard a kappa 9 even with 1.5kw fed per side sound stellar. But that's really because the speaker has also huge room demands.
I tell most people to avoid the 9 and go for an 8 and even that once measured 1.3ohm at certain frequencies.
There were way better options today... However I still have my kappas . There is something unique and special about them there is no denying. Some nostalgia creeps in, these speakers are slowly crawling towards 40 years old now
They still ask plenty for them , so there is definitely a big fanbase for them. Me myself I'll probably never run an 9 again due to the issues it created in my room. It's just to big and too demanding. Doesn't take away , it a legendary series speakers. That still posses a certain amount of wow factor in any listening room.
Aesthetically they're one of the most beautiful speakers ever built to me. Wished they didn't go with particle board cabinets. But I get it, it's an era thing was super expensive at the time I reckon.
But the design is absolutely gorgeous from a n aesthetic point of view
@jimbailey3141 I had a good set of references myself. Out standing ., a real bang for the buck. I wished I hadn't gotten rid of them now.
I have 2 pairs of these and am the original owner, I got them directly from Steven Rowey from the Chatsworth factory. He was VP at the time. He recommended the DBX-BX1 to drive them, he got me a deal on the amps too directly from Newton MA. I have yet to ever hear a better sounding speaker. I have my 1st pair Bi-Amp'd with 2 DBX's in extended, and my other paid are in normal mode with a Adcom GFA-585. They do ok on that amp as well. The DBX makes the house lights dim, they dont clip and the speakers can shake the house apart.
Ohh yah definitely needs power, the speakers from a technical point of view are not that great. The crossovers are a hot mess , but it's also what makes kappas...kappas. I am a huge fan of kappas. My main system uses a pair of kappa 8's and have been ever since wonderful to me.
The 9 is one I avoid hence forward, it's too taxing even tho my (main set up) runs then with ease (to put in reference here 200lbs of class a/b ) amplifiers that drove them.
It's still a speaker that's just not great in any system with that 0.8ohm impedance curve. They should have done that better design wise.
And they are a bit to big for my space.
I have had the original 8's and 9's. To me, when properly amplified are amazing and very difficult to match at the price point of $1600 to $2000. The problem is especially with Kappa 9's you will spend an additional 2k to hear them at their best. And you can do much better at that price point.
I have had the rs1b (4 tower system) aswell, the kappa 9 has some huge hurdles to overcome. The prices today are way to high for them (nearly 3k set price not even touched)
I've had the rs1b,rsII,rs4,kappa 6,8,9, ren80, qe, rsB (still have that one) kappa 8.1,kappa 5.1,kappa 6.1
And all that at the same time 😂 sold most of them last year. When the market started to inflate !
I drove mine with 100 pounds of class a/b without any strain. They need a tremendous amount of space 10ft away will not cut it. They have a 0.8 impedance dip that's just not a great thing at all.
People tend to forget that the kappas were a budgetary speaker. In the realm of infinities for sure . The low end is not that great really for the size they are. I wished Arnie nudell made them 1k more expensive and went with servo controlled low end.
I've had 3 sets by now and I always liked them alot (my dad had them in black since I was a kid) . I still have a kappa 8.1 I will not seperate from, just great bang for your buck. The kappa 9 I do not like over the 8 I find the 8 the better speaker.
Its low end in the more generic room sizes was proven to be a better fit. The tweeters are placed at ear height and not above you as with the k9 (I used to tilt them forward) the amount of current needed to run a kappa 9 Doesn't make it a wise choice for the new guy around the block. Like you said you need to be invested in proper amplifiers. My amps cost MSRP $4800 each. And those were more than able to drive the kappas without any issues.
And you're 100 percent correct it becomes a very costly speaker as a whole ... I will buy another one sooner or later but most definitely not at the stupid high prices I seen.
@@MichelLinschoten Absolutely, I was trying to explain that to a lot of the new guys that are powering them with Class D Crowns or some of the mid-fi high wattage amps that yes, they will power them, but as you mentioned it takes a lot of money to hear them at their best, that's just fact, and not about wattage as it is current. Like you I have had most of what you named besides the 1B which I have always wanted lol. As audiophiles we will likely never be totally satisfied lol.
Loved your video, and more importantly your sage advice.
Appreciate the support and your comment 👍
I own a set of these Kappa 9's for decades. In fact, they sit at the front of a full Kappa home theater set up. I have them bi-amped using Bryston amps, & I'm running a Bryston 1.7 Preamp/Processor. I love these speakers, but have always been curious to learn if there might be a tastier option that doesn't double as a coffin.
I just sold another set for a substantial amount of money. I have the entire series complete including a 8 now aside from the 8.1 I have.
I am selling most of them honestly as I have currently the 500l (see channel for that video) running . And I must say lovely speakers . With a much smaller foot print.
The kappas are beautiful speakers and always will have. Warm place with me I've had 3 sets by now.
What did you think about the kappa 9s is it a good speaker to buy
@@vincentthompson3662 I have thoroughly enjoyed them for many years. I also have many friends who are avid audiophiles who are big fans of my system. You must, however, be able to accommodate their considerable size.
I'll try a pair of 9s when I'm lucky enough to find some but I know it is a big speaker I have a pair of 8s those speakers are nice
I have two sets of RS IIIa's. The best thing I have ever done was passive bi amp them. I then added a QSC CX254 (4 channel, classic A/B) amp(s). Really brought them to life. The bass is so good I dont use a sub woofer and the high end can sing and send all the ohms back to the amp without an issue.
Thanks for sharing! And definitely you cannot have enough power on these old guys.
I have a set of Kappa; 8's, 9's, and a set of IRS Beta's, and a few years listening experience now. You really need to bi-amp any of them. First try my 280 wrms Perreaux won't even drive the 9's on its own in normal mode. I find the IRS's the hardest to tame, now I run them and the 9's together. 6 amps to do that. I'm sure you can imagine the nightmare to get that sounding right in quite a small room. I love the look of these, and if you are truly patient, they will sing for you... Thanks for the review, still I don't just listen to Infinity :-)
I walked away from the IRS beta I had a chance to buy them (offmarket 8k) from a good friend of mine that has two betas and upgraded to the irs v . I had at the time (also on my channel to hear/see) the magnepan Tympani I, which exceeded by a good margin the IRS beta lemims. So for me it was a matter of "do I want to spend the 8k on them" and I walked away from the offer.
There is no denying I ever prefer the IRS beta over the IRS v in many ways (I had the privilege to hear them both) the only system I've heard over the IRS beta that I would go for over the beta is the Genesis 200/201.
There is no doubt in my mind whomever owns the beta , has a speaker for life with them for sure. So you're definitely a lucky man
So I am very familiar with them,I also had the rs1b for a while (I restored them , controller had a left channel hum) and sold them with in 20 min being on the market place they were gone.
The kappa 9 in all reality is a flawed design from the ground up. The crossovers causes the impedance dip (0.8ohm ) I drove mine upstairs (in my main room not what you see in the video) with 2.4kw per channel .
And with 200lbs worth of class a/b too.
So driving them ? I can drive virtually any speaker you can throw at me. I find the kappa 8 a far better speaker than the 9
I had 3 kappa 9's that I've restored and sold ,I have two sets of 8 that I won't part from. They just sound alot better and are a lot better on my equipment too.
The reasons for me are simple, the k8 is more geared towards the average sized room. I had no standing wave issues plus they spec literally the same as the k9 (it's 3hz difference on the low end) that's the only difference between the 8 and 9 spec wise.
It doesn't opposed a ridiculous impedance dip (1.8ohm measured on the DAT sheet) vs 0.8ohm the 9 does just to push low end out of them.
Also if your perreaux doesn't drive them on normal mode. There is something really wrong with your amp ?! Or just not your taste as in normal mode the speakers are almost linear 4 ohm and above
And should not oppose ANY issues for your amp. So that could just be a mismatched amp for them.
I will always tell people you want a good kappa without to much hassle get the 8 or 8.1.(which even sounds better IMHO for also several reasons I won't go into right now )
They are way better geared to listening to music without all the hassle the 9 brings with them. Sounds I am hating them, I don't but I do restore speakers , and from a technical point of view.
Kappas (especially the 8 and 9) are riddled with questionable design choices
Great video - always love to see some discussion on the Kappa's. I bought a set of Kappa 8's on closeout back in 1990. Still have them and still love the sound. Polydomes are cloudy of course but not cracked (yet). Bought a backup set from AVA "just in case". When I first got them they routinely shut down my Denon 50 W/ch integrated amp I had at the time - obviously I learned the hard way about speaker impedance characteristics. Upgraded to the Adcom GFA-585 (the old one from the 90's) which eventually suffered from the leaking capacitor issue. Currently running them with a Parasound Halo A21+ and am seriously considering bi-amping them as they do seem to get better with more power.
You had to send a set of polydomes in to get Ava to fix them right? Or am I wrong, I spoke to Bob a couple times (through Facebook) he has a rather long waiting list.
I just got some Midwest replacement fabric domes. I will address that in a next video just to show you guys the differences. Because there are a few that a note worthy.
I woops debate that the kappa 8 is a better speaker vs the 9 on many areas. Enjoy them , not stating they are bad the 9 but a very demanding speaker in many ways.
@@MichelLinschoten I got lucky and he happened to have a pair in stock (this was a few months ago). Will be interesting to see your video on the fabric domes. There does seem to be some debate as to whether the 8's or 9's are better. I imagine part of it is that the 9's are so difficult to drive properly it might be hard to have a fair comparison.
@@doctrined the 8 has a couple advantages for sure over the 9 power demand aside. My biggest conundrum with the k9 is the tweeters. They are ridiculously high up in the baffle.
I did a couple extensive auditions, with the Midwest fabric domes and I will make a video today . As I felt , I need a few days to come to certain conclusions. Instead of jumping the gun and make a video about it.
But you're not wrong , the k9 is most definitely not a beginners speaker. You have to be dedicated to them (as you clearly did, very good amplifiers you use btw)
I will record a video today and post it later in today for sure.
@@MichelLinschoten I hadn't thought about tweeter height on the 9s before, but makes sense. The 8s are about the perfect height for sitting in normal easy chair, with the 9s you may need a barstool! I guess one advantage of the 8 over the 9 is you only have to re-foam 1/2 the number of woofers - lol.
Dedication is probably the correct way to put it, it's either commit to suitable amplification or change speakers.
I'm running a pair of 8.1s with 2 of the newer Adcom GFA 585se. Each speaker is bi-amped with both amps running 450wpc per side high and low for a power of 900 watts rms per side. You want to talk about blown away! They are simply the best speakers that I have ever owned and I have owned a ton of different speakers over the years. Yes if you under power them they will simply kill most amplifiers as they play down to 2 ohms and lower. I recommend at least 250 watts per channel high current amplifier to really make these things bring out their full potential. These people posting videos hooking these up to receivers aren't doing them any justice at all and they will learn the hard way as they will burn up most amplifiers that are not high current and two ohm stable.
Have mine on Aragon Palladium IIs monos and its just wow.
I am familiar with its cheaper brother the 4004 and they are hands down excellent quality amplifiers.
Glad you enjoy it , that's what it's all about really.
Great listening. The large number of speakers in Kappa 9 emphasize the vanity for the better. Compared to a box with individual speakers. Question please I am looking for new amplifiers. Do you think a Macintosh MC 611 will fit the Kappa 9. Thanks
Ohh yah definitely should not be an issue at all running it with that .
Hello Michael. Im from Germany and i Love the Kappa 9 Speakers. I am searching for somebody who know Something about the different Crossover Designs from 1987 to 1989. I know there where 4 or 5 Changes in the Crossover until the K9 was Made. But i dont know exactl what Changes and why...
Maybe you can Help me.
Thanks a Lot
I've had 4 sets in total there were 0 crossover changes that I know off made. They were all identical, the crossover in the kappa 9 is a hot mess.
Just being honest,very cheaply made and comes with a ton of issues from a technical point of view.
But by my knowledge and having to had a good few of them. Never seen anything different between them.
This is the first time I heard a full soundstage this is exactly what I hear with my kappa 8s. I am playing these with the emotivo base x300 power amp now I'm ready to switch that to the Gen 3 2 channel Power amp
Ohh yah great gear btw emotiva! As you know the kappas do like some solid current able we equipment
I wonder how you experience switching the power amps . Nice set up man
I didn't have much luck with Emotiva and Kappas, yes, they power the kappas but believe me, the better the amp, the better they sound. It's not about watts, it's about stability at 4 ohms and below as the OP explained the impedance dips are insane. I have a friend that swears he powers his kappa 9's with a vintage 30w tube amp. He is coming in town in 3 weeks so I will verify that then.
@@andrewwood9067 I have the 8s but believe me emotivo can power the 9s also what power amp did you have.emotivo is made by one of the guys that was with the original makers of infinity.
@@andrewwood9067 emotiva is not junk it's not cheap and it's not too expensive. They will give you a warranty with the equipment
@@vincentthompson3662 I'm def not implying that Emotiva is cheap, it's a nice amp, I'm just saying it does not have enough low current to drive 9's correctly. With 8's the dips are not nearly as bad. I bi-amped with the x-300 and it was nice, I'm just telling you that there are levels to just how good those speakers can sound, and most people never find out. I've seen Haflers, Bryston's etc costing 1000's fall short, All Kappas are also meant to be bi-amped, it's the way Nuddell intended. You would do better buying another x300 and bi-amp
Not many speakers have a midbass coupler, do they. I unfortunately lost my 7, 8, and 9 Kappas in a fire. Those were good speakers.
I would be so pissed
Just a suggestion at the end of the review possibly a demo. I have the 9s also for 6 years now and any more information Is always great
There is a demo on my channel of the k 9. But I will take it to heart ! And try better thanks for watching
Hi… I saw a pair for sale here in Argentina but I concern about all you talked. I have a nord acoustic class d amp (450w/ch) and a pair of valve power amplifier. I want to bi amp. The issue of the low impedance I think is only for the woofers, right? So I will be fine in the upper range with the valve amp?
Yes correct , the impedance dip is around 0.8ohm , class d should be able to handle that dip. And tube is actually allegedly what Arnie nudell himself strongly suggested to run the kappa 8 and 9 with solid state on tbe woofers. Tube on the mid high, I'd reckon you have a stellar combo there to run your kappas! Very nice 👍
Some folks have successfully driven their Kappa 9s with a Dynaco ST-70 tube amp. 500$ on the used market. What u think?
Definitely possible if anything tubes can handle strange impedance curves. As far as my knowledge goes, Arnie nudell always recommended running the kappa 8 and especially 9 solid state on the low end. And tubes on the upper mid section.
@@MichelLinschoten Correct, but some folks and I have tried it and have found it to better tube on the full range. I need to rebuild mine before I put it to the test.
Ohh yah and let's face it if the impedance is really an big issue . Just run them "normal" but you do give up on some low end. In case if the k9 just being unbiased here had 4 sets of 9 by now.
As much as I love them , they are not speakers that low end have alot to say in terms of definition. The later series II sounded to me a lot better (tighter and more natural) being a vented monopole .
My series I k8 compared to my 8.1 is a night and day difference
@@MichelLinschoten I have not had issues on the low end. Spark 810 or McIntosh 70 pushed the woofers without a drop of sweat, much better and easier than with solid-state designs. This must be due to the fact that between the output transformer and tube, the loudspeaker is connected in the form of a resistor. If u disconnect it it would be a direct short. Therefore only some ma are required to get them to moderate volume levels ( guess 8mw) and 8W is still loud. 70 or 80W blow will knock your socks off.
McIntosh used auto formers it's what makes them virtually impervious to impedance drops and rises.
The thing is the k9 on my given space I get better results using my subwoofers. Than the k9 by itself, I think I don't have enough real estate to fully enjoy them. The tweeters are also to high up in the baffle. Which for my ears made them super directional (I tilted them forward)
I still want to score a kappa 9.2 one of these days 😊 ,I am extremely fond of kappas. So definitely not hating or talking them down. But the good old 9, really has a set of unique demands to get it right. As someone else here said before, if you need to spend a ton on an amplifier to get them to sound remotely good.
They are definitely not worth the price point they go for in the end. He has a point, my amps (ATI ) just the power supplies by themselves weight 97lbs of each amp.
I had 0 issues running the kappas , I think it's more of a space issue there too and the low end just can't reach its potential in my space.
I had them in a huge open space before and I walked immediately into standing wave issues.
So I have a set of Kappa 6s and a room that depth wise is a little smaller than yours. I would really love to know your thoughts on your set of K6. Any thoughts you had before the repair and definitely after the repair would be welcome. I thought about a set of Kappa 9s or even the 8s for my space but will likely settle for the Renaissance 80s if I ever find a pair close to me. And I think as far as the Kappa 6s go due to size and money I'll stick with those long term. But do tell! How would you compare the Kappa 6 and the Kappa 9 performance wise in a smaller room. And do you think the Kappa 6 are good enough in general when speaking of others like the Renaissance 80s, Kappa 9, and even the RS1s. Love to hear your thoughts.
That one is next ! Also original polydomes vs restored ones. As just now I am holding the Midwest replacement domes for my 6!
@@MichelLinschoten appreciate your response will be waiting for that one. I’m actually sending my polydomes to millersounds in a few weeks. Any reason you choose to go with Bob Douglas instead of Bill from Millersounds. Thanks again and can’t wait for the reviews….keep them coming.
@@edwinfabre1 yes, I have them both miller sound do sound a bit more "warm" less aggressive than the original polydomes.
Bob Douglas reversed engineered the original material used to make the polydomes. So it's literally, as accurate to the original material and sound (his measure almost identical withthe original ones)
I pulled a Miller sound apart , and will go more in depth about that in other video for sure. As these drivers are very important in the kappa series. And many are available, I will also install the replacement domes in the k6 and make a video tomorrow.
The Ren 80's or 90' s are a step up from the Kappa series. They have EMIM drivers which are on another level.. They are expensive to fix and harder to find though. Your Kappa 6's are nice speakers. I have the 8's and Crescendo's, I would put your money into good amp's instead of moving up
@@drewdrew7968 I was going to comment on this. As a neutral observer, I think the EMIMs are inferior. I own a pair of Ren 80s that I gave to my father. I can say that the sound is not as pleasant as the Kappa. I am not saying that the Rens are bad, but I do not think the EMIMs are suited for that application. I love the ribbon tweeters but not the mids. Both Kappa and Rens are nice speakers though.
I have the Carver Silver 7t's mono block amps............handle them well.
I had Carver I am not a fan of his solid state silver 7t amps. His silver seven tubes are just amazing but way beyond my financial means. I heard the tubes drive the IRS beta mid/high wings ..
Pretty amazing.. the kappa 9 (according to nudell) is best driven. By using a good solid state on the low end and tubes on the mid high. I believe nudell was a huge advocate of audio research.
I use ATI I never had the urge to change my amps for any reason. By now I sold all my infinities 😁
Are you considering recap of the crossover?
I have considered it , but seen the complexity (aka pain in the royal ass) it is to do them. I refrain from doing it, there is 0 imbalance between channels . They also in the same room (not in the one, as seen in the video) measure identical. In all reality, will it benefit the speakers. Maybe , is it worth pulling out this crossover.
Desolder 14 drivers (total) take apart the sandwiched crossover and then find caps that will fit. Is a known issue with them, let alone Inductors.
On the high end they use polycaps they don't need any revision. The low end you could go air gap , however you'd windup with a crossover that will not fit internally that massive. It's been done before it involves a massive overhaul . And it's a speaker with a certain complexity to it especially crossover wise .
As you can tell .....aslong as it plays good,measure right I won't go there as of now.
Just got a pair of these myself. What clock positions do you set your rear controls? I’m interested in what others who own these set them at too.
I've ways than them "flat" I hear no difference really otherwise. But that could be because I didn't play to much with the l pads. They are always just flat
Why don't you like using the Crown amp?
To me it misses the finesse of my class a/b , albeit it's a excellent for sure way to drive these speakers ) crowns can do it hands down(
But it does miss the more relaxed nature of my other amplifiers. It seems more controlled (it's hard to explain without sounding like a overly compensating audophile)
I tried a Crown Amp when I passive bi amped my RS IIIa's. Was not a fan of its sound and of its size. Found a QSC CX 254 and never looked back. Classic A/B, 4 channels at 250 watts per channel at 4 ohms and pretty much can dip down to the floor without issue if needed. Just have to make sure you leave all the dip switches for filters and clipping off.
how do these compare to the Infonity RS Beta❓
The IRS beta (the 4 tower system with servo not the much later Harman kardon name sake one) is a far superior system ,there is no question about that.
Acoustic treatment maybee ?
I'll address that room in a later video it's a storage/test room . Not my main set up which consist of way different hardware speakers included 😃
But yes you're not wrong, that room needs lot more to get right ..
Crown class d have atrocious treble. They modulate noise. NOT high fidelity. Carver TFM amps can be modified by Neilion audio of Michigan to be able to drive the Kappa 9. Everyone that has done this has nothing but praise for this combination.
Not a carver fan at all , my ATI's shit all over carver easily. I had carvers in them and sold them within the week. I wasn't impressed with them at all (in my main listening room)
crown has its place but indeed I agree not the finesse to run a speaker with our requirements.
@@MichelLinschoten Oh not at all. You obviously never heard them in upgraded form. ATI modules are ok, but generic, and second rate compared to the upgraded carver, which shit on ATI.
Yah nah ...I'll take that test all day long with you.
Lexicons, outlaw , monolith , Crestron and tons more use ATI build topology/designs.
Carvers anything transistor never got traction. Bob is known for his tubes , most definitely not for his transistor work.
And as far as a carver pissing on a 100lbs class a/b ATI ...
Nah, also crown would be used on purely the low end because of the 0.8ohm impedance dip. Not on the mid high , these speakers in all reality would never be sold today being the way the crossovers are designed
You can run 2 amps per speaker. Go price another speaker high audio in that alone. You'll spend thousands of dollars on them. Has anybody priced used and new high audio speaker in the performance of these. You have to have high dollar amps and a big room to get the performance out of them. High dollar amps to run a high dollar speakers. I've heard alot of speakers and these Kappa 9 makes it happen. You have to get the rite audio people to fix um. These speakers takes alot of power to run them. Not to many amps can pull it off. Or back a few years ago. The electric bill will go up a pretty bit. To judge them rite u have to hook them up with a 1 big power amps or at least 2. I'd run 4. But who could afford that. 1 amp alone would break most people's bank in the working class.
We had 200lbs class a/b ati amplifiers on (in my main system) on it. we measured a amp draw of 8amps, my amps have no issues driving them ...
At all 48000uf per channel capacitance (exceeds krells, and most upper end amps) and the power supply is 2.4kva per amp
Power was never the issue on them on my end. The kappa 8 we deemed a way better fit in our room. In the video is the storage room with a setup to make videos in it. That's most definitely how we ran them
I had 3 sets of kappa 9's so definitely not hating. Of which I restored 2 myself with original parts, emit diaphragms (Bob Douglas , American vintage audio)
The series II kappas sounded a good bit better, we unfortunately are still looking for a 9.2 to compare with a older k9 and I current have the 8.1 in my main system my kappa 8 series 1 is in my secondary system
And for my speaker cable I have cheap speaker cable gearit 10 gauge oxygen free cable.
Ohh yah nothing exotic here either , just decent cables and nothing excessive
You can't go back at the price they was at 1989. Value of money goes down. 3,000.00 $ ain't much money in today's value. The wooden cabinet is worth that. Go buy wood in that design today.. 3,000.oo $ is cheap for today's prices and market.
The are particle boxed speakers, that cost virtually nothing. I've build an array for 300usd (16x6.5inch polypropylene woofers), houses in 1.5inch thick doulas pine baffles (not the particle stuff actual wood)
coupled to one set of emit r tweeters. Easily outdoing the kappas mid range all day long especially in size.
That doesn't mean it's a bad speaker , but trust me when I say this. The majority cost of most speakers does not lay in the parts it cost to build one.
Also keep in mind I still run in my main system kappas , just not the 9 I have them pretty much all. And definitely love them.
@MichelLinschoten the design is the key here. To be that size measurements is something else. I couldn't come out trying to make them like that. And the oak wrap around. Be hard to find somebody to copy that at a cheap price. Whatever they did. Is pretty good to me. Mine look as good as the day I got them.
@@MichelLinschoten it's the design!?
Ohh definitely! I think if you look at design fitting your system and definitely room you're onto something!
Also people need to learn stop buying with your eyes. Use your ears and understand that your ears and room don't care about MSRP prices. Or how exotic your big monster of a speaker is made out of adamantium dipped in gold shavings just to give it an audible edge.
Acoustics is where it's at but also IMHO ? Synergy! Some equipment just doesn't mesh well with other gear. And some gear (and this is not going to price) just matches wonderfully.
I am actually making a video soon about that as I am currently having a tube amplifier here. We got some interesting results from it ..
You speak Dutch?
I do yes
@@MichelLinschoten
Ok.Dan zullen je ouders wel geëmigreerd zijn?
Nee , ikzelf Ben verhuist in 2012, ik heb ook 5 jaar in Thailand gewoond.
Didn't play anything?
There is already a video up of them playing
Go buy a speaker that size and performance. If they ain't worth much than why is he still have um.
Nobody said that at all..., they ask 2500-3400 for them, to put that in perspective. That's how much I bought my infinity rs1b for.
Let's not go there in comparison (in a video you can see the rs1b in the background
crowm amps aren't good amps. Get a high watt McIntosh, you will keep the kappa 9's. they need a GOOD and POWERFUL amp.
I disagree I didn't only use crowns. I had even an rs1b quad amped with class a/b. They don't need as much power at all the K9 it's just a resistor that caused the impedance issues it's a flawed design hands down.
You can easily revise those crossovers in normal mode you can drive them with anything just about. The 8th is a way better speaker for many reasons , it specs pretty much the same as the kappa 9.
I only had 3 sets of k9 , ren80, every rsII rs1b what have you not. We tried tons of amps it had nothing to do with power
And for your information crown outdoes McIntosh on power numbers. 2.4k in mono for crown xls2502 without any sweating
@@MichelLinschoten I had a McIntosh MC 2500 . Run those 9s on that and they will sound incredible. I ran them on a crown macrotech 1200. No contest , the Mac amp ate the crown for breakfast. Put them on a 200 watt amp and they sound terrible. Kappas need a class a/b amp or you aren’t really hearing what they can do. Crowns have a lot of power, but it’s Dirty power.
We had 200lbs (just the power supply ) of ati amps on them at one point class a/b .
I had McIntosh in the past in combination with Sonus faber , and magnepans so definitely not new to it.
The 9 is a speaker that has a lot of requirements. The crowns do not deliver "dirty power" this is actually well documented all over the internet and measured. So define "dirty" I agree I am not a huge class d fan.
But driving the low end I the K9 with crowns has absolutely no affect in terms of dirty on the mid high (which we always have driven with class a/b)
You also assume that amplification is the issue. It's not, I restored 3 sets of kappas 9's and just pulling the crossovers. Betray the many shortcuts taken with them. Inductors in close proximity, cheesy npe caps and poly switches (tweeter protection pull those you gain actual upper end quality) those wear out.
The low end was a shortcut cheap passive way they went for. Which is fully understandable. As nudell wanted them to be servo controlled, but that would have put the kappa 8 and 9 in a way beyond reasonable price category (he mentioned that in a interview for a hiding magazine) ...
The kappa 8 specs literally the same as the kappa 9 , the reason why the k8 has better chances with most people to work better.
Space requirements, the K9 even in our biggest space 700sqf or so we walked into standing waves. The tweeters are to directional , so having them at sitting position nearly 5ft up in the baffle doesn't benefit them at all.
We had no issues driving them at all with any amp we hung in it, we measured 8amp pulls on the low end at full war strength without any amp buckling. Especially not our ati power amps, those we used regularly to power the rs1b to that requires quad amping. And safe to say makes the kappas look like child's play on the amplifier end of things.
So powering them was never an issue,
Also you had a crown 1200
We used a crown xls2500 that is literally the most powerful crown in the xls series currently made.
440 watts x 2 at 8 ohms
775 watts x 2 at 4 ohms
1200 watts x 2 at 2 ohms
1550 watts x 1 at 8 ohms in bridged mode
2400 watts x 1 at 4 ohms in bridged mode.
also I want to point out WATTAGE HAS ZERO TO DO WITH quality really, you don't need even close to these type of numbers to run any speaker really. Unless you're filling an venue with a pa rig.
Kappas 8 and 9 recommended minimal paper isn't even 200w ... A good 200w class a/b that can deliver it with current overhead will run them.
And at thd levels way below human hearing. Not to mention, the power demand never even got close to the numbers the crown can deliver.
2ohm stable, way less amps can handle kappas and have.
Just sharing what we have done and how we experimented with them and nauseum . With a wide variety of equipment (as class a/b is my main go-to always has been)
No thanks
Not a speaker id but again or remotely would be interested in either had 3 sets sold them all. There is lot better out there for lot less ..
Hallo Michel, ik heb met veel interesse je reviews over de kappa's bekeken. Ben momenteel zoekende en twijfel over aanschaf van de kappa 9 of 9.2. Nu lees ik dat er volgens jou betere en tevens goedkopere speakers zijn (in verhouding tot de kappa's neem ik gemakshalve even aan) en ben reuze benieuwd welke je bedoelt. Vriendelijke groet uit Groningen
De 9.2i is stukken beter de emit R is superior over de oudere emits. Om nog maar niet tebeginnen over de mid-bass couplers de 9.2 en 8.2 hebben dezelfde couplers als de renaissance 90, sigma en epsilon. We klinken stukken beter Dan de polygraph in mijn oren
Dude, these speakers are OVERDESIGNED (yeah, there is such thing in engineering). First, they have way too many drivers and way too complex cross-over which is inefficient - at that times, with the materials and components available, they just could not make efficient drivers and crossovers, especially that complex. THAT IS WHY THE SPEAKER DEEPS SO BADLY TO 0.8OHM (Depends on the bass extender switch). Don't be proud of it, don't brag on it "ohhh, these speakers are hard to drive" - it's BAD. If u look at the specs of modern speakers with the size of 11" / 12" driver's, you won't see them go below 3 Ohms because modern designs are much more efficient and much more musical too🫵 in fact, even high-end speakers dont go often beyond 3-Way. 4-Way is already rare in the high-end market because complexity and over-complexity in Speakers is the arch-enemy of musicality❗️The INFINITY Kappa is just a show-gimmic of "look how many drivers I have, look how big I am" and there is a reason why this brand doesn't really exist anymore. No speaker today should ever go below 2ohms, it's just very inefficient and impractical. It's a bad design with look and feel in 1st priority (which is not appealing today anyways) . Nothing really about sound. Large speakers like these are difficult to integrate in a small listening space like u have. They will never dissappear in your listening and will always impose their sonic artifacts on u saying to you "we are here".
If you are seriously looking for the sound of classic-speakers but with modern refinement, control, textured and detailed sound - you should look for BBC Speaker designs which have been proven over time❗️even up to this date. The BBC designs are at the heart of modern brands such as Spendor, Harbeth and Stirling. infinity KAPPA isn't one. The KAPPA is just a bad design. And it's way too big for your room regardless of how badly and inefficient they are🫵
You make a lot of blanket statements, which I definitely won't address. I agree with some of your statements regardless of your rather assumption based "rant" so it seems.