RecycLiCo Battery Recycling Q&A with Engineering Explained & Kemetco Research
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- In this Q&A hosted by RecycLiCo Battery Materials, Sandy teams up with Jason Fenske (Engineering Explained) and Norman Chow (President of Kemetco Research) to answer some questions about recycling EV batteries.
To subscribe to Jason: @EngineeringExplained
To learn more about RecycLiCo Battery Materials: recyclico.com/
To learn more about Kemetco Research: www.kemetco.com/
0:00 Black Mass vs Black Powder
5:55 Kemetco & RecycLiCo's Relationship
7:58 Feedstock Sources
11:56 Carbon Dioxide Emissions
14:58 Doing the Impossible
17:53 How Much Gets Recycled
19:23 Stage 1 vs Stage 2 Recycling
23:44 Regulations
25:51 Efficiency
29:08 Identifying a Leader
31:57 Adapting to Changing Chemistries
33:33 Scarcity
36:05 Mining & Refining
43:48 Determining What to Recycle
45:16 Back to the ICE Age
Munro Live is a UA-cam channel that features Sandy Munro and other engineers from Munro & Associates. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering, costing, and teardown benchmarking.
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Jason didn’t bring his whiteboard? 😳
Then what are we even doing here?😢
HINT - Jason is NOT an actual BEV Engineer.
@@markplott4820 correct and he's been proven wrong publicly by an actual current world leading bev engineer from tesla and has refused to issue a retraction or apology for lying outright to his audience. Take down or edit his misleading cybertruck video!
Shameful behaviour imo, but he is a UA-cam master click bater afterall. And they won't do anything despite reporting the video. 😏
Let's not forget Jason was anti-BEV forever. He attempted to show 🔋 energy density as unviable for 🚗, although factual was not truthful, as lithium tech was advancing rapidly. He amplified all the FUD from Tesla haters. Remember the shade on Plaid for 0-60 spec? When all the Amer car makers did the same for perf drag strip tests.
@@kbmblizz1940 well said! Moron blather on blindly about roll out. Yet since before I was born in 1982?
Every single manufacturer and testing company used rollout. 😂
Further more every drag strip pass ever made everywhere has rollout in the time which only varies by how deep you stage against the box.
When I mentioned this very simple fact to him, and asked if we should disregard drag times? I got the expected crickets back.
Heck rimac used rollout with all their latest nevera numbers. I also asked if he was gonna sh*t on them? Again absolute crickets! 👍🏻
Jason and Sandy are very complementary in their respective approaches and styles, more video together please! 👍👍
Sandy needs someone like Jason now that Cory’s left. Good combo, hopefully more of this collaboration.
Exactly! Sandy has the 🔥, but he needs to be partnered with order! 😆
This guy is why you go to school & study science
Exactly!
Make STEM compulsory and ban religion. Just imagine how much more advanced the world would be if there was no such thing as religion 🤔 which is man made and it DEFINITELY shows 🤨
@@TheManLab7Wow I'm not religious but you made me think I don't want to support anything you do.
So you set things back with you're bigoted mind.
Big Bang theory; presumably you don't believe in that theory because it was developed by the catholic church.
I'm 54 and never thought I'd be doing chemistry as a hobby. I'm refining my late fathers silver jewelry to make something new.
I also had a pressure wash company where I made my own cleaning agents. That means I have an account at a chemical manufacturer so the barrel of acid for desolving silver is cheap and easy.
This is really interesting and I agree with the STEM classes. I'm a high school drop out that went from a homeless teenager to a self made millionaire. I did that by studying what I'm interested in not what society says I should learn.
If you have a shop class and can learn welding in high school take it. If you want to be a doctor or CPA still learn to weld. You won't understand why until later in life.
Basically the ability to look at anything metal in the world And know you can fix it if it breaks or make one if you need it.
The recycling efficiency is much better than I imagined, great!
ua-cam.com/video/1b4EIBznww0/v-deo.html
amazing technology, wish Recyclico and Kemetco all the success
You are at the start of your due-diligence and once you are done and you are satisfied you can buy a piece of it.
ua-cam.com/video/1b4EIBznww0/v-deo.html
@@schulzmj1 oh I'm already invested in AMY for a few years. Just showing my support here!
@@pjetrs When did you buy?
Really interesting to hear about what’s happening in terms of the recycling of EV batteries as there are literally millions and millions of them hitting the road and I wondered very much what was going to happen to them all. Loving the series that you guys are doing on all the aspects of the electric vehicle, very much appreciated thank you.
thanks, Munro and Associates. I really wanted to hear what these folks have to say.
This guy seems brilliant. Great interview. Thanks for the insights.
Thanks so much Sandy! Glad you made you way back to this facility again.
Recyclico has the most important promising and transparent technology for EV batteries at the end of their life
You are absolutely correct and when one has done their homework they can own a piece of it. It is publicly traded!
And yes I own shares.
@@schulzmj1I thought about that when I heard about them years ago when they went public with the process. I looked them up then.
What is they're ticker? Isn't it the mining company and they converted it to this product and they have a contract with each other.
Fantastic interview and kudos to Recyclico and Kemetco for developing this critical and very important technology..their years of R&D will be rewarded in a big way....I could see this technology being the industry standard for battery recycling...there are likely big name companies out there licking their chops to somehow aquire their tech as it solves the closed loop recycling issue with very little Co2 released
ua-cam.com/video/1b4EIBznww0/v-deo.html
Good work guys. This should calm some fears. Two UA-cam superstars helping spread the message is always good.
Awesome to see you working with Jason I didn't even know you knew eachother. Great synergy.
I’ve been saying for years that there’s a real opportunity to make battery recycling a local effort. Rather than sourcing virgin materials for every EV imagine 25-30 battery recycling/manufacturing plants scattered across North America so we can reduce and hopefully eliminate dependence on extracting raw resources from hostile countries.
It was comment on the graph that stood out for me. There are not yet enough spent EV battery packs to recycle to get the economies of scale to really ramp up that part of the recycling industry.
That is very true but, 30% QC failure is a massive incentive for manufacturers.
Not enough spent batter packs BUT the 30% rejection in Manufacturing of new batteries is huge and would provide a lot of feed material and a lot of base elements for new battery manufacture
🙋♂️THANKS SANDY AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS 🧐 INFO 😎💚💚💚
It's such a treat to have Sandy interviewing people from AMY. It has been quite befuddling for me that the stock price has been on a steady decline for years - it seems as if their technology is unmatched, and the licensing of which from the big players would be inevitable.
It's too bad Sandy never got to speak with Larry - they had some similarities and I could've seen them getting along
Having grown up shooting flintlock rifles, hearing you discuss black powder makes me smile. BOOM!
I agree with the last part, people are often fairly surprised when I say I bought an EV to return to reliability. My last 3 ICE half tons have had reliability troubles and we are only going back to 2013 for this.
Awesome video. These guys are based right here in beautiful Vancouver BC Canada 🇨🇦
Shoutout to Norman Chow... obviously very knowledgeable.
Vancouver is Earth's headquarters for mining companies, so it's the logical place to develop advances in mineral recycling.
Thank you so much for the interview! I drove a Jeep Wrangler quite a bit yesterday. Cool looking vehicle, not very enjoyable to drive around town compared to my Model Y. Acceleration, noise,body roll and gas station dependency. The only advantage to the Jeep was turning radius :-)
I wasn't expecting a Jason video today. I get him AND Sandy. Happy Friday!
Very cool video, thank you for sharing!
Two great things together at the same time
Super interesting subject thks
Sounds like a great company. I appreciate the discussion on battery recycling in general as well. Thanks, for this!!
Great discussion Guys. Scary to hear that they .have no place to just dump the material. It is like How to dispose of Long half life Radioactive materials.
It would be very interesting to see a similar discussion with Redwood Materials.
I learned a lot. Thank you
The only reason I know who Jason is was through your podcast.
I'll see you soon. The highlighter PS kindness is always free, go Muskegon, Michigan.❤😊
What is the cost of recycling to the environment? How much power is required? Where do the chemicals go after? Economics are in favor of recycling vs mining however we need to look at the complete picture. Would love to hear that discussion.
Very good interview. Thanks for sharing this.
The crossover we never thought we needed
This was boring as hell. I loved it. More deep dives please.
Boring, as in drilling deep into the topic. Well done!
Jason! Heck yeah!
Music to the ears of this chemical engineer.
Yes!
Very informative video
Vancouver ❤!
Topic is something I always wonder about, thank you for the insight
ua-cam.com/video/1b4EIBznww0/v-deo.html
I believe at some point battery materials will be a national asset. Eventually the country would want to keep recycling and production as a closed loop.
Most probable start to this would be in grid storage. Say the electrical company who used to run peaker plants, would move on to more and more grid storage systems, first from end of life EV battery packs, then recycle them back into grid storage arrays. as more and more EVs go through their life cycle you end up with excess materials, which you either sell to recycling companies, recycle yourself and sell the purified materials, or just manufacture new batteries as part of your business. In long term there will be enough materials to negate mining/import demand out right.
Obviously you're wrong. It's already shown that personal devices are first and pay the most for batteries. Second is vehicles including heavy mining and construction equipment. Then storage is after that.
The US doesn't like mining, in Nevada or California where the lithium is. The chips act and others should have fast tracked lithium but they didn't. They talk like they have for votes but nothing significant is happening.
It's the same thing as nuclear power, breeder reactors and fusion power. The US ahould have at least 50 billion a year in the budget for development and they have less than 1 that gets cut and raised randomly.
The put so much money into the chips act that they can't use it and build the factories because the lack of workers.
The US doesn't even have a plan for fixing that probelm.
Hey Munro, you mentioned the problem of old tires, there is a German company called “Pyrum Innovations” who have a working pyrolysis plant and are building multiple new ones right now, to solve this problem.
Super interesting!
Im really looking forward to an EE summary of this conversation!
I wish they put more emphasis on the different chemistries. How can recycling an LFP battery be as lucrative as recycling an LNMC battery? Can you even make a business case for recycling LFP or now Na batteries?
Hi, as he mentions in the video (27:15) there are different ratios for each mineral even in the same chemistry classification, so unless you want to see a chart on the current prices of each mineral you will never be able to compare different chemistries. And none of that has to do with profit. Profit is the difference between what a product costs to manufacture and what you sell it for. So, if you sell your iron at 3 cents per pound, but get it for free, then you have made 3 cents. And if you sell your Nickel for 4 cents per pound, but it costs you 5 cents, then you have lost 1 cent.
Well if that is the case you can just throw them in a landfill.
@@jonathanjohnson8376LFP is different beast form NMC/NCA, but until recently only in China and 3/Y RWD had LFP batteries so only small portion of cars have these.
@@asaha7547 Hi, I am not sure why you are replying to me specifically. Are you saying that Kemetco's process can not be used for LFP batteries? Or are you trying to add more information to my reply?
@@jonathanjohnson8376because they (intentionally?) avoided mentioning LFP, while process most likely can be used with LFP my guess it is unprofitable unless Lithium prices skyrockets again as there are no Nickel/Cobalt there. So probably only Lithium and Copper can be recovered.
Spiting facts love it👍
Thanks for such an interesting topic. I think recycling is a topic that should not get handled in a private corporation form. This must be publicly owned in a form of a cooperative where everyone can be a member because this is about resources you have, how to handle them and sharing the results with everyone. Privately owned corporations are never in favor of the nature or preserving them, as we know. They want profit...
AWESOME THANKS FOR VIDEO!
You bet!
I had a field trip to a steel mill that used recycled metal. They must have used appliances or industrial scrap and then added sacks of ingredients to clean up and get the qualities of the steel they wanted. They may have dipped their finger in at some point to get a taste, but the output would have been tested after rolling into geometries.
That is not the case with this process. When the cathode material comes out the end it is ready to go right back on a cathode foil. When one sees a good company they should buy shares while their cheap.
Recycling is the new mine, extracting less than 1% while the above is much higher...we need mining companies to take xx% of profits and insert into recycling projects.
Would have liked to see some discussion on recyclability of prismatic vs pouch etc. And non-serviceable (Tesla) vs more repairable modular solutions.
Kemetco's High Purity Manganese development is also real important, since there is no North American production.
Old batteries can / should be used in conjunction with solar, wind, hydro or other renewable energy as storage when sun isnt shining or wind isnt blowing etc. People use batteries from.old evs for home battery storage / back up power
MUNRO - Precision Fermentation can SOLVE the Graphite Recycling problem.
depreciation of EVs has to improve. And, can we be assured that electricity costs will stay low in the future? wind and solar are very expensive and intermittent so govt mandates will make future clean electricity costly.
cool!
Clever naming 😊
Very good interview! We are loving our R1S here in Seattle and look forward to the only thing that is constant in this old world. CHANGE!
too bad RIVIAN cant do BETTER Wields.
The Salton Sea in California is one of the largest sources of lithium with the McDermitt Caldera in Oregon/Nevada tribal land being the world’s largest. Looks like the Hungry Valley Indian reservation might end up being the next largest battery producer.
At the end of the day, another excellent. Munro and Jason video
👍👍
BTW - Tesla since 2018 has been INTERNALLY Recycling its used car Battery packs and started a Program to REPLACE under Warranty battery packs in S/X EARLY for Legacy MODELS.
TESLA also Recycles OLD Wheel rims , shred them, melt them down in Gigacasting furnaces .
How do they recycle them? Why don't they talk about their internal recycling process?
@@energy_dense - the DO EVERY Year in the Tesla IMPACT Report. published Annually.
Isn't the aluminium alloy of the gigagastings a bit more specific?
@@rkan2 - YES, they can also Recycle ALL the Gigacasting scrap as well, in the Furnace .
the Gigacast materiel is an ALLOY. Designed by SpaceX.
@@energy_denseTesla does not talk about recycling used batteries because they don't and they can't
Wow, the complexities of lithium mining are crazy. Will we reach a point where nearly all of the materials coming from recycling?
That's the ultimate goal. A sustainable circular economy. Maybe not 100% but high 90s. In fact the lead/acid battery industry already claims to achieve 99% recyclability ...
I am not a radical environmentalist but reducing the amount of certain types of mining mining would not hurt my feelings.
This process will reduce the reliance on virgin material in a big way.
16:52 I would argue various government efforts to combat "climate change" via mandates, penalties, and incentives is what has changed the auto industry.
Is there any market-research and overview of competitors recycling processes available - to see and understand the advantages / differences of @RecycLiCo and other market-players ?
ua-cam.com/video/1b4EIBznww0/v-deo.html
This is a great interview. I love the collaboration! Are you guys going to be able to tour/interview Redwood Materials? I would love to see the contrast in operations. Thanks!
If they will have us.
@@MunroLive I thought you had one planned? Wasn't it cancelled after you posted the first RecycLiCo video?
Redwood has nothing to contrast. Currently Redwood is deadwood.
@@schulzmj1 What's going on with them? I thought they were ramping up. Do you know something different?
@@geoguy85I will respond to your question later. 👍
This was great and a wonderful surprise! More with Jason 😁😁
I would like to know the opinion of Sandy Munro about the new Xiaomi SU 7
Which partnerships have been established with material suppliers and customers for long-term sustainability?
People talk about how they should have invested in a great company when it was cheap but they didn't.
Well I did with this one.
Various States have regulations on chemical battery disposal. It is not accurate to state there is none.
All have some but that only means you can't throw them in a landfill and not that they have to be recycled.
I was a bit puzzled by the repeat harking on about the aluminium but no mention of the copper foil [in NMCs] worth much more than the ali. Otherwise in interesting deep dive.
If the black mass takes a lot of energy to produce, then it may cost more than it saves and still pollutes with co2 to run the furnace?
What is the economic status for recycling LFP batteries?
Last videos on Munro are sooooo awesome!!! Please keep it going!! ❤❤
Glad you like them!
Two thoughts.
1. What impact on water resources where the otherwise tempting mining or processing sites are, if massively increasing battery production to go all EV instead of using PHEVs to provide single vehicle options that can do 90%+ driving on electricity and 3% to 10% with nearly the same efficiency as a simple hybrid?
2. JCB is producing Hydrogen burning construction equipment with high duty cycle use (like their Diesel powered older designs), wouldn't it be advantageous to convert some of the heavy mining equipment to Hydrogen that they can produce on site, or as close as possible to water sources suitable for hydrogen production?
Sandies assistant is hysterical
Wow, send the invitation now that's a powerhouse, the Highlander. PS kindness is always free. Free can be good.😊❤
Redwood materials has to be leading the industry. Jb was early in tesla and id bet has all the contracts to recycle old tesla batteries
38:01 - Australia is a developed country with a developing country's extractive economy.
Basically if you use the powder to aluminum you can make sell it for tannerite for exploding targets for target practice
I like the 3 generation mans meeting. Good study.
so whole batteries go into the shredder/pulverizer and segregated electrolyte and cathode material comes out? That would quite a timesaver.
The electrolyte was evaporated in a drying stage after shredding. That is all part of the shredding/pulverizing process that reduces active whole batteries down to stable powdered feedstock.
What this company does is takes that powdered feedstock, or the coated foils direct from manufacturer waste, and extracts the metals used in making both the substrate foils and the active battery materials. As he stated, they are not in the shredding business and that is a more unstable business. Many companies are doing something similar to what these guys are doing, what is unique is that they have a streamlined process that greatly reduces the number of steps required to get to the metals.
Most of the other processes also dont generate a pure metal, but a compound that is a result of the solvent extraction... that would have to be further processed to be ready to use in batteries. These guys have an end product that is much closer to the form of the metals that is used to make batteries.
@@patreekotime4578 not closer, it is pCAM. can't get any better than that.
The batteries must be totally discharge before the process can begin.
Carbonscape has developed method to make graphite from wood.
Black powder, 30% waste. 70% remaining -12% = 58%. The 12% is former aluminum foil that had anode material applied.
Recylicio commercializing Kemetco technology. Hydrometallurgical process derives precursor material as feed stock to make new batteries. Lithium products and precursor materials are the valuable end product of recycling batteries.
@@mefobills279That tech is not Kemetco technology it is RecycLiCo Technology. RecycLiCo holds all the patents.
@@mefobills279That is RecycLiCo Technology. It holds all the patents.
Mined material has over 99% waste so your point is?
@@InformedKiwi It is a synopsis of the process. Draw your own conclusions.
wow, you here in Toronto or is that Rochester?
Can I ship batteries to them?
Where does all the process acid go in china? I heard a lot of sulfuric acid processes.
16:27 I think the bad news is, that there is not enough legislation and taxes on waste production. I feel like many cleaner production methods fall victim to the market where it's allowed to "dump waste into river" (environment) with no consequences. And then market punishes you for doing things more sustainably, not rewards.
Same thing has happened with fossil fuels over the last 100 years. There's very little regulation and a lot of subsidy to support the oil industry.
ALL States need to switch to 100% Consumer waste RECYCLING , rather than Landfills.
and NOT just ship to 3rd world Countries.
but, actually Recycle IN - HOUSE .
my point here was, that when one company can make stuff and use environment as a "dumpster for free", with no cost, then other company is in disadvantage, while not using the "free dumpster" and making things without waste. And then they can not compete. This should be discouraged by taxing waste.
The genius of Kemetco, Tesla & Redwood is that they have monetized waste, developing dollar incentives to encourage people to recycle. They pay people for their batteries, so folks don't just throw them in the trash.
Why didn't RecycLiCo Battery Materials receive Federal money to develop and implement this for establishing Canadian jobs? So much has been provided to foreign companies to provide for related factors in Ontario.
I hope Jason and Sandy ate at the Salmon House on the Hill...💓
😎❤️🇹🇼‼️#freewesttaiwan
42:19 "I definitely don't want the govt to get involved" Sandy, did you oppose IRA? If so, how do you propose we better reach net zero?
Anything the government puts it fingers into screws it up.
"Reduce , Reuse , Recycle" In that order! That order because its much better for the environment to reuse or replace damaged cells to get a longer life out of a battery than to grind it all down and reprocess the metal. Why not focus on repair-ability and replace ability in the design of the battery? This will not only bring down costs for the consumer but be much better for the environment
"uhm uhhh uhm uhhh". Love how this doesn't seem rehearsed.
Rehearsing would be a waste of time
I feel like a big tension is coming. The obvious choice in terms of price, longevity and sustainability going forwards is sodium ion batteries. But theres almost no reason at all to recycle them. Which means anyone into the mining, recycling or metals speculation side of things will demand we continue to use batteries with at least lithium and nickel in them. And maybe further along that wont be a problem... once we have electric flight en masse then we have a legitimate niche use that demands expensive materials and can keep the recycling and mining and metals speculators happy, while the rest of stable storage and most ground transport can switch to sodoum ion. But I worry about this interim period we are in for the next decade or so. I worry that sustainability and price to consumers will be forfiet to an entire industry pushing in a different direction.
idea 💡🔋 id like to see battery's be like the gold standard for cryptos make battery the new gold/oil & all u got to do is offer crypto for spent battery's & it will create a loop the crypto peopl will hunt down battery's for u♻💱💲
A poison reef, you mean. See the study of the effects of various pollutants, including plastics and automotive tires, on the environment? Not good is an understatement.
Here's a question for these particular guys. Jason once said that "engineers do not have feelings". Is that true all round, or just Jason?
Jason saus, "Ouch! That hurt..."
The future of metal mining is in waste recycling .
Has been forever. Waste from gold mines gets re-refined every 2 decades or so, with advances in chemistry.
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneckRefining tailings is dirty business. My point is We have enough metals in the waste stream to be able to stop or at least slow down the extraction of virgin ore.