Disaster | Mitsubishi Fuso 4P10 NO START diagnostic 1
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- Опубліковано 22 чер 2024
- EP112 Full on Disaster mode hits. Things are not going well at all! The Fuso is refusing to start. It cranks over, but shows no signs of firing. I’ve gone through a lot of checks, read codes, scratched my head a lot, looked at wiring diagrams….. this is not a good direction.
To make things even worse, my diagnostic software has now locked me out, and the vendor I purchased it from is not providing any support. It’s genuine software, and further to them not supporting me, I’ve phoned, and emailed both Mitsubishi and Mercedes for support. Nothing resolved yet, so I can’t even get in to diagnose further.
*Sigh.
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Hi Bruce. Sorry to hear about your starting issues. I dread this day happening with our Fuso as I have a lot less knowledge than you on this subject so would probaly straight on the phone to get it recovered. I hope you are managing to get somewhere with it though. Its really useful reading through all the comments for future reference and just general Fuso training so thanks for posting these things.
My whole reason for documenting this is to have all the things to look for if this happens to someone else (otherwise I’d just sort it out and fix it!) and absolutely the comments have some gold! - so I hope it doesn’t happen to others, but if it does - I hope the videos help!
Hey Bruce 👋, I have a 4P10 that is exactly the same problem with my 4P10. The cause for this problem is the CP4 injection pump . mine That pump is completely destroyed. You can check that is your pump is distorted or not . There's a solenoid on the injection pump only have 2 bolts remove it and inspect tha solenoid filter screen. If there's little chunks of metal inside your interior fuel system is done. To repair this problem you need to put 4 new injectors, common rail, injector lines CP4 INJECTION PUMP fuel filters and drain all the fuel and Wash the fuel tank...
Thank you . I hope this helps you 🙏.
Yeesh - I really hope this isn’t it! Did yours just up and quit one day, or did it show signs of deteriorating and then stop working?
@BruceandKrista Mine is one day go to a tour and came back from Highway and he slowed down the vehicle for exiting. When he slowed the vehicle engine RPM dropped to normal idle, and it turned off the engine. I tow it to my shop and I get it to run for 5 minutes. Problem is that I mentioned in my first comment
Hello Bruce, I experienced a similar breakdown. When I had a no start condition, it was because my injector pump had sent aluminum particles through the high pressure system clogging the injectors. With the DEF system, I’ve just changed a DEF tank which had a bad level sender. Fuso doesn’t sell just the sender, you’ll need to purchase the whole tank. Keep in mind that just about any sensor including the DEF tank will have a calibrate/relearn procedure. Hope you figure it out.
Yep, will need to do some re-learning! Hope it’s not debris in the fuel system! (Would be surprised if it took out all the injectors at once) my DEF is showing full on the dash, it I’m thinking there are two level sensors… (?)
hey Bruce you know my first answer is. “Change the spark plug” but we all know the oil burners don’t have them…. Just a shot in the dark but unhook the battery and run a jumper between the + and - cables to reset everything… this may help or may now… we won’t know until you try
For sure worth trying (the ECU, not the spark plugs, but I bet if I could change the spark plugs that would do it!) Will give it a try!
Bummer, dude. Are you sure you're holding your mouth right? (Sometimes Murphy will nail you for that, so it has to be checked.)
I retired from wrenching in '85 and never was around diesels, so I don't have any better ideas for you, Bruce. Have you checked the air filter? Sometimes weird things happen and the air filter can show you a sign of that. Check your wiring for rat chews. G'luck!
Air filter is on the list for this weekend!
Oh Bruce - I wish that I could help - someone must have the answer - hopefully it will come quickly and be totally successful
My faith is that everything can be fixed, eventually it will get narrowed down to something! It’s got to be something annoyingly simple…
I agree. Disconnect the battery and bleed off any power charge in the system to reset the ECM. (Touch the POS cable to ground) Had to do this to my wifes car last week twice to get the ECM to reconfigure itself. It's working like a champp now.
I sure thought the low oil pressure switch would have been it. You haven't drilled through any chassis wire looms since you parked it, have you?
Will try a re-set and see if it clears up! Haven’t done any drilling, welding, or anything odd, just up and quit on me!
You mentioned a DEF low fluid lock out
I’ve experienced the DEF level sensors to be faulty.
Showing full but actually empty
Showing empty but actually full
Yep, it had some of that going on too - but the manual doesn’t say how to test the sensors - any idea? Dash gauge is showing full, and tank is full….
could it be a glow plug issue? either power to one, or one is just dead? I had a similar issue with my diesel Delica a while ago (I appreciate that it's a totally different scenario) so I bought a new set and that solved the starting problem.
Interesting - I’ll verify that the glow plugs are getting power - I would think it should have enough compression to start without them at this temperature, but worth a check!! Thanks!
These engines definitely will start without a glow plug unless you're below freezing
Pages 13-12 and 13-13 of my workshop manual provides a table that indicates the various reason for the engine not to start. I am sure you have read this as well. And it looks like you have covered most of your possible reasons. And ideally the ECU and diagnostic tooling would provide some useful information, which apparently it is not. Look forward to the next video when you tell what the issue was.
I believe I’ve gone through all the no-start possibilities in the manual - other than crank and cam position sensors - but I’m not getting any codes for them. The hunt continues…
Ugg, this is never fun. Your persistence will eventually figure it out, I just hope you can figure it out sooner vs later!
Thanks - there is always a solution, it’s just a matter of finding it!
Today i got the same problem with my track morning hours the track was running fyn after i switch it off i try to start but no the engine crank fyn but no starting after i check power supply to my injector socket no power supply but i hope iwill try it tomorrow let hope we gone wine this bullsht.
Have you read the codes through the dash cluster?
ua-cam.com/video/XI-nOFkUMK0/v-deo.html
I would try to start the engine with liquimoly start fix or similar. If starts, change start plugs. if doesnt start, i will check if the injectors are getting current.
I’ll check injector power, not really fond of starter fluid in this engine…
Hey i really dont know anything, but did you end up replacing the SAM unit you had voltage leak from a year ago?
I dont know its function 100% other than being the hub for communications throughout the trucks systems, but whats the likelihood that its gotten worse? (if you havent replaced it yet).
You've proven that fuel is being returned to the tank, and that the pressure at the common rail is right, but is there anyway you can throw your multimeter on an injector and see if they are getting a firing command and actually shooting fuel into the cylinder? Like, yes, you are getting fuel returned to the tank, but thats not nessasarily from the leak off of the injectors, it could just be your high pressure pump sending back fuel that the electric pump has sent and its not using.
- Bunch of codes from your dianostic complaing about signal voltage
- SAM Unit was iffy in the past
- Potentially no communication from the ECU to the Injectors to say "FIRE!"
Again, i dont really know what im talking about. My 2003 Isuzu is 99% mechanical and no smarts, so troubleshooting is much easier (and i can pretend to know more than i actually do)
All great thoughts. I did not replace the SAM, and had the same thought process, next video I do some further troubleshooting on that, confirming power. Thought I had found an issue, but turns out not. Fuel returning to tank was without cranking, just key on - so its 100% just the electric. I am still suspicious of fuel supply but have not proven an issue with it yet. I can see if I can measure for an injector electrical pulse…
Remember that electrical problem you had and you traced it down? It was were you were getting voltage on the ground.
Was that ever resolved? I wonder if that got worse and caused this?
I had the same thought - that was in the SAM. I went through all the circuits feeding power to the ECU (as you’ll see in next weeks video) and though I thought that was it, it turns out the SAM is Ok.
Oh dear, that's always a crap feeling. Ours stopped halfway onto the road when backing out of our driveway, just to make sure we couldn't use our cars to go and get any parts we needed 🙄
Remotely diagnosing problems is always fun. First of all - last work done rule. Is your module electrical system connected to the truck electrics in any way at this point? I know videos take time to create and people usually post them with a couple of weeks 'lag' time so I'm not sure where you are up to with connecting the truck to the module. If the module is connected in any way, temporarily disconnect it.
There are a lot sensor codes there. It's been my experience when you have multiple codes like that, they all point to a single issue. Although that sounds redundant, it means it's likely a pretty simple issue. There seem to be a lot of 'voltage high' codes in amongst them? I'm not familiar with the software - but can you clarify if those V High codes are sensor operating voltage codes or sensor reading range codes?
If those are sensor operating voltage codes I would start checking and cleaning chassis earths. On ours there is a main earth point on the top of the LHS chassis rail just behind the cab. This just happens to be a major rust spot too.
Check the voltage across the ECU while the truck is cranking. Just because the truck is cranking doesn't mean there is sufficient voltage to run the ECUs. ECUs have a low voltage safety cut-off to protect them from damage. From memory your truck runs a 12v system? If so your ECUs will have a safety cutoff voltage in the range of 10v to 11v and if you are seeing south of 11v at the ECU when cranking it could be that the ECU is just protecting itself from damage. If the voltage is low hook up a second battery to make sure you have plenty of cranking voltage.
Do you know why your truck was in 'limp' mode originally? If so, was it something that could deteriorate further over time whilst your truck was sitting? I always tend to focus on first principles when vehicles are operated in climates where corrosion is a big problem, and Canada is certainly one of those spots. Take some time to find, clean, and test every connection on the truck. Not sure about your truck, but ours has a large cab to chassis cable junction box near the cab tilt hinge point. Any corrosion in there is a bad thing and can affect multiple systems.
Sorry for the million 'qualified' suggestions, but as I mentioned remote diagnosis sucks. If I could fly to Canada for a holiday and enjoy some summer weather (and trust me, it's cold here so you have no idea how tempting that is!) I would enjoy a good brain-teaser. Let me know what you find and I'll do my best to offer more suggestions.
I eventually tracked the problem on ours to a fracture in the stand pipe inside the fuel tank, an issue I have never seen before. A methodical approach always gets there in the end though. Good luck. Fire back any questions you might have.
Some great ideas in there! No connection between the new electrical system and the truck. I’ve started down the path of the EGT and SCR sensor fault codes and have parts on the way to resolve those, I did test some as faulty sensors, but I don’t think they can cause a no-start, just creep mode. I’ve been going through connections as I go looking for damaged wires, or corrosion - nothing found yet. The hunt continues - and I appreciate all your ideas!
@@BruceandKrista Welcome to the fruits of my misspent youth! Get back to me in the comments here if you have any questions and I'll do my best long distance. I just finished remotely diagnosing an 'it just died' issue on my cousin's Rangie Classic. Must be that time of the year 😂
All those codes emission codes I would say it is your bluetech control unit. I see ACM failures all the time they leed to derate most the time but not sure how Mitsubishi handles that type of failure.
It’s de-rated for sure, but I don’t believe there is anything below “crawl mode” - which I’ve been in before, and it still starts. Will be doing the EGT/SCR temp sensors and the DPF DP sensor next, from what I saw, that should clear all the emissions codes.
It is rare to see multiple sensor failures it is usually the control module at that point.
I’ve confirmed multiple bad sensors based on resistance measurements of the sensors while disconnected - I have replacements on the way.
My 2015 was in derated mode. Took it to the dealer who performed recalls on the Bluetec system and replaced sensors etc..
But I was told that after derated mode it wil leave you on the side of the road. At least you have yours in the garage Bruce.
Good luck, I know you'll find it.
Another thought
Won’t the truck only give you x number of miles to drive with a red code before shutting down the engine?
What if you cleared all codes?
Yep, that’s correct, it’s pretty high though. Like 600 or so - and I’ve done less than 2 since it’s started complaining…. I’ve got some new sensors on the way to swap out, after that I’ll clear the codes, otherwise they return instantly.
There’s a common non start issue caused by a vacuum hose failure, I will try and search the Facebook page to see if I can find it
That would be amazing!!
Have you start the track
Truck not starting yet… still working on things!
it may be that the electric pump plug has poor contact
Electric pump is running and supplying fuel
My truck cut off also and won't start, seems like the engine lock up..
Does it not turn with the starter?
@@BruceandKrista no it's don't...
Try turning the engine by hand and still not moving...
That’s usually not good.
@BruceandKrista I know right...
Seems like the main bearing because it cut of and didn't make any noise
Im having similar issues, but without any codes, it starts on the 1st try, then crank no start until an hour or 2 later, then it starts again. This is stressful
I would think that’s a fuel issue - what year/engine? If there is a massive fuel restriction (like a clogged filter or blocked pipe) the fuel doesn’t come through fast enough to keep the engine running, but if it shuts off and sits for a few hours then enough fuel slowly seeps through the filter over time to let the engine run again.
It's a 2015 with 4p10 engine ... when I start, it will run until I trun it off, then when trying to restarting it doesn't, but I'll start with the fuel filter because i don't know when the last time it was changed thanks alot
Check the video I linked and read the SPN and FMI for the engine ECU to see if there are any active codes… will hopefully point you in the right direction. Also, when it won’t start, when you key on (before you crank) can you hear the electric fuel pump running? If it’s overheating or getting old it may need to cool off before it will engage. Located just behind (towards the rear) of the fuel tank.
Also, if it is the fuel pump, or you need help locating it, check this video…
HOW TO Stop a CATASTROPHIC fuel pump failure before it happens - MUST WATCH!
ua-cam.com/video/Dr5DpW0Mu_Y/v-deo.html
And lastly, if the electric pump isn’t running, give the box a few snacks with the hammer immediately after keying the ignition on - that may start it - but if it does it’s time to replace it!!
Bruce this is my worry every time I crank it over.. just too many sensors and ECUs involved.
I know you keep the battery up and it sounds like it turns over strong. so not ECU brown out low voltage.. I would chase down the DEF harness and check everything is within range and also force clear all the errors. the DEF fluid errors are worth chasing down.. DEF pump line has pressure?
just noticed my wife logged in.. it's Mike building the Kraken replying
Yep, emissions sensors are next on my list, but I don’t see them completely inhibiting a start, unless it’s the fluid level sensor. Dash gauge shows the tank full, and the tank is full. Repair manual doesn’t give a method to verify the sensors in the DEF tank.
Well, as a bonus that just got me another viewer! 🤣
Another thought, are you getting current from your new battery system going to chasis ground? Is there a negative circuit possible? A voltage difference between house batteries and truck batteries? Could the def harness be in that circuit?
New battery system is 100% isolated from the truck - I had that thought too!