The AI personalities are a really nice touch and probably deserve their own guide. It even affects behaviours of armies on the campaign map. Paranoid trait is something to watch out for. It's been toned down since release, but they used to freak out and declare war on the player if you had any strategic threat at all. It's also really difficult to make deals or peace treaties with them as the player frequently sets off their paranoia which is usually a -40 in diplomatic value. Some people might remember the suicidal Cao Cao (and Liu Zhang) on and early patch that attacked you without caring about their own land. This was entirely caused by that trait.
That is why Cao Cao in the TV series knows every existing faction in the TV series and can elaborate them like "Liu Biao is old and undecisive, Yuan Shao is arrogant" etc etc in front of his generals and audience and then systematically campaigns on his favor.
I enjoy your sight, and in-depth you go for this game. I have only been subscribed for about four months, but now I can play at the hard difficulty from what I was before. Thanks keep making videos.
Actually the Personnal Rivalry does NOT comes from Grudge/Fondness but from the Guanxi system of Oathsworn/Friend/Rival/Nemesis. Which makes it actually pretty easy to remove (but slightly harder to get if you're mostly fighting with your faction leader) So if Cao Cao is rival with Sun Ce, just have Cao Cao fight several battles with other armies full of generals, the positive guanxi points generated this way will eventually force Cao Cao to "forget" about his rivalry with Sun Ce to make space for the guys he's becoming friends with, deleting the diplomatic penalty. It's amongst the things that make the guanxi system too limiting as far as the game mechanics go.
@@STR33TSofJUST1C3 Assuming its not hardcoded, yes. Doing so would break the UI though, the menu showing relationships doesn't have enough room for infinite relationships so you'd have to figure something out there. And while I don't know hoe the system works, I am a little concerned that an infinite relations list would be pretty taxing on the game. Characters can live for a long tiem and end up fighting alongside, fighting against, walking past, serving in office with etc dozen and then hundreds of characters. If each relation is in any way taxing on the game then a massive expansion of slots would be an issue, not to mention a relathions list with over 100 dudes in it could be very unwiledy to keep track of for players.
It always happens to me that I have an Underdog vassal and when their leader dies, the heir becomes a Defiant vassal. I guess it makse sense, someone sees his father forced to be a vassal by military strength and resents their master for that.
I'd love to see you attempt a challenge video to see if you can find a way to manipulate the system in a way the developers hadn't considered and get to maximum friendliness with every faction at the same time
@@SeriousTrivia I abuse that in the late game to boot attitude from my vassals and my allies, I'm sure it doubles the attitude the 15 give. I'm in game testing it right now and it's working fine
Diplomacy System of TK3 is good, but it is hard for me, especially when I slowly expanding my territory. I am unfortunate to not form a coalition, but I was lucky sometimes to get invited by others. However, there is time that I was got majority vote and got kick out from coalition, after serving few years in coalition. Additionally, sometimes the Diplomacy system is kind a strange. My vassal ask me to declare war against far away faction, which going to strange war. Also, bigger and far away faction decide to submit to smaller major faction. For example, one Nanman faction become vassal of Cao Cao, and Liu Yu become a vassal of Cao Song (MoH DLC). And, Diplomacy System is getting harder. Being alone in late game and fighting a coalition is a fighting against all odds. Even though you make peace with them, some turns later or when you declare one of their allies, they are going to war again. While I found so many setbacks, there is one possible exploit that I have found. I'm not sure if this a luck or not (that I have mislead and mis concept as exploit), but I like to share. In my one of my unfinish gameplay, I defeat the Three Major Yellow Turban Factions in Mandate of Heaven DLC, one by one, after becoming vassal to someone. After becoming vassal to someone, I declare one major yellow turban faction and defeat it with trespassing two major yellow turban faction territories. After containing the first, I declare war and defeat the second, then the third one. While I was playing TK3 for long time, I notice a bias thing for me. The Ai are not so powerful and making strange move when I was allied with them. But, when I was one of their enemies, they are moving smartly and they are attacking me first before other Ai Faction. I do not know why. I think there is need changes of my play and/or need some game balance fix to make diplomacy useful and better. Maybe I should make friends and ally early with one of other faction as a small faction in the early game. Avoid gathering some faction, especially have an obstacle to "Road to Emperor" that can possible kick me out. And make an aggressive action against the enemies who are warring or hate against one of my ally. About mod, I'm not sure if the two diplomacy mods that have I seen is working or not. I cannot see the difference. I think there is something I did not see that works out (good). Maybe their is other mod that can fix diplomacy issues.
Seeing as a new dlc is coming soon. Could you make similar guide for Troy? I'm especially interested in what factors affect whether or not a faction wants to become a vassal for Agamemnon.
the confederation in troy is the same as warhammer. Just be stronger and it is almost guaranteed. Late game is almost always one big Greek faction versus one big Trojan faction since confederation is so easy to acquire in that system.
Hijacking the comments to ask: are there any good roster expansion/new unique units that you would recommend? MTU compatible would be a blessing. Thanks so much.
How does the diplomatic multipliers work exactly? I can have 800 positive factor, trade deal, diplomatic marriage, coalition and then they are somehow trending down after every turn. Also, I can never get my credibility to go back up as Cao Cao with my schemes.
1) diplomatic attitude only impact opinion on deal for diplomatic deals. They max out at 150 and will bring you no additional benefits beyond. Some deals will always have a base level of negative opinion that you need to overcome with other factors (military strength, offering something in return, or ultimatum). 2) diplomatic attitude are suppose to trend down. If you make a treaty or a favorable deal you get the bonus for that turn but every turn it will decay until it is gone so it is best to use the 1 coin trick to rise it to your desired amount and get your deal done before your good will runs out. 3) credibility goes up over time assuming you are not damaging it anymore (I assume you annexed). Different source of untrustworthiness has different decay rates. Breaking a treaty goes down 1 point per turn but annex untrustworthiness goes down 1 point per year or 5 turns so it is extremely damaging. 4) you can conversely raise your untrustworthiness by doing something trustworthiness to counter act the points (like defending a vassal or subject)
@ST whats your opinion on joining or making a coalition. Should I wipe nanman and bandit factions or peace out with them too after capturing their settlements
Coalitions and alliances can be nice since it takes account of your allies strength when making deals but they can drag you into wars that you don’t want to be in. If you are Han, then it is probably good to wipe out Nanman and bandit factions as most other han factions will see it as a positive
I don't understand your question? Like Sun Ce and Sun Quan did have a sister and she was married for a time to Liu Bei. No one knows her name because it was not recorded down historically so DW calls her Sun Shangxiang and CA calls her Sun Ren...is that clear?
@@lingbingzheng8127 there was a reference to the name in the records of the three kingdoms when referring to the other siblings of Sun Quan. Most think it’s the name of the third and younger son, but CA decided to use it for the girl
5 months late but can you tell me if it's possible to make marry Yang Feng as Zheng Jiang in the 194 start? I tried the diplomacy trick,but the value stays the same for some reason..
@@SeriousTrivia Could you do a tutorial? I also saw a Steam Post that the person who managed the marriage was able to do with Yan Baihu aswell Edit: Forgot to mention he's a vassal,his faction is more related to Zhang Yan's than Zheng Jiang...
Did you try the Zheng Jiang 190 early game guide to see how I was able to get Zhang Yan? Or vice versa with Zhang Yan grabbing Zheng Jiang. The diplomacy trick of over promising then adjusting the trending with 1 coin gifts should work
no he starts with the seal in the 200 start which is factual as after Yuan Shu's death, it was hand delivered back to the emperor who Cao Cao controlled
The AI personalities are a really nice touch and probably deserve their own guide. It even affects behaviours of armies on the campaign map. Paranoid trait is something to watch out for. It's been toned down since release, but they used to freak out and declare war on the player if you had any strategic threat at all. It's also really difficult to make deals or peace treaties with them as the player frequently sets off their paranoia which is usually a -40 in diplomatic value. Some people might remember the suicidal Cao Cao (and Liu Zhang) on and early patch that attacked you without caring about their own land. This was entirely caused by that trait.
That is why Cao Cao in the TV series knows every existing faction in the TV series and can elaborate them like "Liu Biao is old and undecisive, Yuan Shao is arrogant" etc etc in front of his generals and audience and then systematically campaigns on his favor.
I enjoy your sight, and in-depth you go for this game. I have only been subscribed for about four months, but now I can play at the hard difficulty from what I was before. Thanks keep making videos.
Actually the Personnal Rivalry does NOT comes from Grudge/Fondness but from the Guanxi system of Oathsworn/Friend/Rival/Nemesis. Which makes it actually pretty easy to remove (but slightly harder to get if you're mostly fighting with your faction leader)
So if Cao Cao is rival with Sun Ce, just have Cao Cao fight several battles with other armies full of generals, the positive guanxi points generated this way will eventually force Cao Cao to "forget" about his rivalry with Sun Ce to make space for the guys he's becoming friends with, deleting the diplomatic penalty.
It's amongst the things that make the guanxi system too limiting as far as the game mechanics go.
Sounds like sth that could be "fixed" by using a mod that removes the limit on acquantances such as "unlimited relationship cap".
@@STR33TSofJUST1C3 Assuming its not hardcoded, yes. Doing so would break the UI though, the menu showing relationships doesn't have enough room for infinite relationships so you'd have to figure something out there. And while I don't know hoe the system works, I am a little concerned that an infinite relations list would be pretty taxing on the game. Characters can live for a long tiem and end up fighting alongside, fighting against, walking past, serving in office with etc dozen and then hundreds of characters. If each relation is in any way taxing on the game then a massive expansion of slots would be an issue, not to mention a relathions list with over 100 dudes in it could be very unwiledy to keep track of for players.
Been going back and watching ALL of your TW3K guides. Absolutely love your work. Shame CA didnt finish the game. Subbed
It always happens to me that I have an Underdog vassal and when their leader dies, the heir becomes a Defiant vassal.
I guess it makse sense, someone sees his father forced to be a vassal by military strength and resents their master for that.
ST bringing us the content we never knew we needed.
I'd love to see you attempt a challenge video to see if you can find a way to manipulate the system in a way the developers hadn't considered and get to maximum friendliness with every faction at the same time
I mean not possible with factions that doesn’t engage in diplomacy like the Nanman and Yellow Turban subcultures and the rebel factions.
10:00 I think positive 30 is the max favourable deal
15 is the max
@@SeriousTrivia I abuse that in the late game to boot attitude from my vassals and my allies, I'm sure it doubles the attitude the 15 give. I'm in game testing it right now and it's working fine
just double checking, are you running any mods?
Diplomacy System of TK3 is good, but it is hard for me, especially when I slowly expanding my territory. I am unfortunate to not form a coalition, but I was lucky sometimes to get invited by others. However, there is time that I was got majority vote and got kick out from coalition, after serving few years in coalition.
Additionally, sometimes the Diplomacy system is kind a strange. My vassal ask me to declare war against far away faction, which going to strange war. Also, bigger and far away faction decide to submit to smaller major faction. For example, one Nanman faction become vassal of Cao Cao, and Liu Yu become a vassal of Cao Song (MoH DLC). And, Diplomacy System is getting harder. Being alone in late game and fighting a coalition is a fighting against all odds. Even though you make peace with them, some turns later or when you declare one of their allies, they are going to war again.
While I found so many setbacks, there is one possible exploit that I have found. I'm not sure if this a luck or not (that I have mislead and mis concept as exploit), but I like to share. In my one of my unfinish gameplay, I defeat the Three Major Yellow Turban Factions in Mandate of Heaven DLC, one by one, after becoming vassal to someone. After becoming vassal to someone, I declare one major yellow turban faction and defeat it with trespassing two major yellow turban faction territories. After containing the first, I declare war and defeat the second, then the third one.
While I was playing TK3 for long time, I notice a bias thing for me. The Ai are not so powerful and making strange move when I was allied with them. But, when I was one of their enemies, they are moving smartly and they are attacking me first before other Ai Faction. I do not know why.
I think there is need changes of my play and/or need some game balance fix to make diplomacy useful and better. Maybe I should make friends and ally early with one of other faction as a small faction in the early game. Avoid gathering some faction, especially have an obstacle to "Road to Emperor" that can possible kick me out. And make an aggressive action against the enemies who are warring or hate against one of my ally. About mod, I'm not sure if the two diplomacy mods that have I seen is working or not. I cannot see the difference. I think there is something I did not see that works out (good). Maybe their is other mod that can fix diplomacy issues.
Seeing as a new dlc is coming soon. Could you make similar guide for Troy? I'm especially interested in what factors affect whether or not a faction wants to become a vassal for Agamemnon.
the confederation in troy is the same as warhammer. Just be stronger and it is almost guaranteed. Late game is almost always one big Greek faction versus one big Trojan faction since confederation is so easy to acquire in that system.
Hijacking the comments to ask: are there any good roster expansion/new unique units that you would recommend? MTU compatible would be a blessing. Thanks so much.
How does the diplomatic multipliers work exactly? I can have 800 positive factor, trade deal, diplomatic marriage, coalition and then they are somehow trending down after every turn.
Also, I can never get my credibility to go back up as Cao Cao with my schemes.
1) diplomatic attitude only impact opinion on deal for diplomatic deals. They max out at 150 and will bring you no additional benefits beyond. Some deals will always have a base level of negative opinion that you need to overcome with other factors (military strength, offering something in return, or ultimatum).
2) diplomatic attitude are suppose to trend down. If you make a treaty or a favorable deal you get the bonus for that turn but every turn it will decay until it is gone so it is best to use the 1 coin trick to rise it to your desired amount and get your deal done before your good will runs out.
3) credibility goes up over time assuming you are not damaging it anymore (I assume you annexed). Different source of untrustworthiness has different decay rates. Breaking a treaty goes down 1 point per turn but annex untrustworthiness goes down 1 point per year or 5 turns so it is extremely damaging.
4) you can conversely raise your untrustworthiness by doing something trustworthiness to counter act the points (like defending a vassal or subject)
@ST whats your opinion on joining or making a coalition.
Should I wipe nanman and bandit factions or peace out with them too after capturing their settlements
Coalitions and alliances can be nice since it takes account of your allies strength when making deals but they can drag you into wars that you don’t want to be in. If you are Han, then it is probably good to wipe out Nanman and bandit factions as most other han factions will see it as a positive
I never know this mechanic haha
is ther any list out there for every faction leader personality?
Those are randomized every campaign (minor faction leaders)
Man it’s all for nothing, you can be friendly, next thing you know they declare war on you 😒
This is mainly due to the personality
Does fighting YT rebels that spawn due to public order affect relations with factions that are at war with YT?
Yes
@@SeriousTrivia lol that’s why my diplomacy is always screwed
Master Trivia, history question, was Sun Ren, from Three Kingdoms of course, a real person? Not Lady Sun, Sun Shangxiang, I’m referring to.
I don't understand your question? Like Sun Ce and Sun Quan did have a sister and she was married for a time to Liu Bei. No one knows her name because it was not recorded down historically so DW calls her Sun Shangxiang and CA calls her Sun Ren...is that clear?
@@SeriousTrivia
Where did the word "Ren" came from?
@@lingbingzheng8127 there was a reference to the name in the records of the three kingdoms when referring to the other siblings of Sun Quan. Most think it’s the name of the third and younger son, but CA decided to use it for the girl
5 months late but can you tell me if it's possible to make marry Yang Feng as Zheng Jiang in the 194 start?
I tried the diplomacy trick,but the value stays the same for some reason..
I mean if the marriage option is there then it is possible
@@SeriousTrivia Could you do a tutorial?
I also saw a Steam Post that the person who managed the marriage was able to do with Yan Baihu aswell
Edit:
Forgot to mention he's a vassal,his faction is more related to Zhang Yan's than Zheng Jiang...
Did you try the Zheng Jiang 190 early game guide to see how I was able to get Zhang Yan? Or vice versa with Zhang Yan grabbing Zheng Jiang. The diplomacy trick of over promising then adjusting the trending with 1 coin gifts should work
@@SeriousTrivia I think I made the mistake of not offering 1 gold coin,smh...
How can you request AI bandit for mercenary assistance?
from the war panel on the left. They have to be not in one to begin with
Is there a way to check what will be the personality of a vassal before granting them independence? What makes an underdog character for example?
it’s actually randomized for every campaign so the same character will get different personalities each time
How do you stop factions from getting mad at you from occupying settlements. It seems it is counted as committing war crimes
I mean how do you expect them to like you for taking their land?
@@SeriousTrivia it's not just them. It's the factions who like them. I'm trying not to have everyone hate me for expanding
you just can't, they see someone stronger they get wary, it's natural. maybe trade a land could work but that is very costly
how much of the diplomatic attitude carries over to a new faction leader?
Depends if the personality of the new leader and the relationship they have with your leader
Are you planning to play humankind? It looks very promising.
yes! It will take over the daily slot for Total War Three Kingdoms once it comes out
@@SeriousTrivia Amazing. Looking forward to it. I have played TW3K for 600 hours and am getting a little worn out.
*trespasses*
This means war! 😝🤣
How in the world cao cao got the imperial seal?! 🤔 I thought the story takes it away?
no he starts with the seal in the 200 start which is factual as after Yuan Shu's death, it was hand delivered back to the emperor who Cao Cao controlled
@@SeriousTrivia 😱 I didn't think the emperor has it! I thought after you give it to yuan shu it's like just deleted from the game
@@xmixaplix I mean in the 200 start it’s just reset to have Cao Cao start with it
Short version: befriend Liu Bei and Kong Rong, vassalize Wang Lang, don't trust Sun Ce and Cao Cao!!!