The 1980s: The Dark Age Before The Renaissance⎮A Disney Discussion
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- Опубліковано 30 кві 2022
- It seems that every Disney decade has some sort of specific association. When you think the 1990s or the 2010s, you think of quality Disney content. Real works of art that show off the best they have to offer.....from the 30s to the 60s, we think of the man himself: Walt Disney, and all the golden era classics the studio made under his guiding eye. The 70s show off what Disney without Walt looked like. The 2000s the studio floundering after a decade on top. But the 80s....what the hell is 80s Disney? Why does nobody talk about it? It feels like nobody wants to talk about it....not even Disney. So what made the 80s the decade Disney forgot? Watch and find out!
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i do think a lot of the 2000's movies are underrated. treasure planet goes hard. so does the emperors new groove. n i think a lot of ppl who grew up on them don't have the bias that the previous generation had, and so think of them fondly. the 80s dark age films tho don't seem to have the same cult following because they're just....not very good?? i think??. esp compared to the things like back to the future and karate kid ect. which came out abt the same time.
Treasure Planet is a lil bit of a hidden gem
Has anyone noticed that smarty-pants has been uploading daily
I think it’s worth noting that don bluth’s two films , An American Tail and The Land Before Time, out performed the two Disney films ,Great Mouse Detective in 1986 and Oliver and Company, When they came out. And he was a former Disney animator.
I know! Don Bluth’s touch was in fox and the hound. He always did dark storytelling
I grew up with Fox and the Hound as well as Oliver and Company.. it's nice to see them being brought up. They were good movies, even despite their misgivings.
I feel Oliver and Company was the one who actually kicked started the Renaissance era of Disney. It may have come out in 1988, but it 100% feels and looks like a 90s Disney movie. The Little Mermaid is what perfected the Renaissance era.
I’d say in terms of musical numbers it’s up there with the 90s works.
But animation wise it was purely xerox and the plot, while good, wasn’t of the unbelievably good quality of the 90s films.
What made the Little Mermaid the transitional film in 1989 and the start of the renaissance was that the broadway musical style was literally perfected, the plot was very strong, and the final wedding farewell scene was animated in CAPS, which would be the defining digital paint style that all of the 90s films would use and build on it. It was mostly Xeroxed artwork, but that final scene (which was the animators who would dominate the 90s film experimenting with CAPS in a feature film to prove it could work) completed everything that was necessary for the renaissance films.
Fr tho treasure planet acctually slaps my favorite 2000s Disney movie
Both fox and the hound, and brother bear are some of my all time favorite movies. Idk why, I just love them. (You need way more subs, you're to good to go unrecognized)
The '80s was definitely a mixed bag for Disney Animation. I love Oliver and Company, Great Mouse Detective and of course Little Mermaid the most, the others I don't care much for. It was also when we got Roger Rabbit which is fantastic. Even though it wasn't Disney's greatest era I still appreciate the guts they had to try different things and push some creative boundaries. Because of that even the '80s films that aren't considered among Disney's best are still much better than most that came out in the 2000s and even the 2010s.
Everyone: god, the black cauldron was so boring and lame!
Me: haha, gergi no find munchies and crunchies.
Yes, I actually really like the black cauldron.
Yes It was ahead of its time
@@bloomeraklyon5842 honestly, it needed more. The bard specifically, as they never explained why his harp kept breaking. It breaks whenever he lies.
Also, a fantastic cursed item to give to your dnd party
I recently watched The Black Cauldron and I really liked it not only for its "antique animation aesthetic" but also for being part of the Darkest Disney Trio (Along with Pinocchio and the Hunchback of Notre Dame) and also because it features the first princess who saved her love interest (Elena and not de Avalor)
I love The Black Cauldron and The Great Mouse Detective. I will defend them both to the death. Their stories might not have been perfect, but their animation was considerably better for their times. They were both experimental films. They both had a brilliant cast, especially with the villains
Disney gave my life meaning thank u Walt Disney we all u a lot
A lot of these films were my favourites as a kid!! Sword in the Stone, The Black Cauldron, Oliver and Company and the Emperors New Groove!!
I still rlly like Oliver and company
I certainly remember! He'll I grew up with these!
The Black Cauldron is my BFF's favorite movie of all time! I actually watched it with her and you reminded me that I still need to finish it. The Great Mouse Detective is also really nostalgic, at least for me, for my parents used to play it for me and my siblings and it never failed to make me smile.
I liked The Great Mouse Detective a lot. But I think the main reason for that is not necessarily the movie itself, but because we watched it at my grandmother's house, over and over again 😊
I remember reading “the Fox and the Hound” to my little Son, who is now 37 and has a little son of his own.
Watched them all, Love them All!
I was just thinking about this today
I like to sometimes do a Disney Animation marathon where I watch every Disney film from "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" to the latest (Encanto). "The Black Cauldron" is their twenty-fifth film. ("The Wild" is not on the list because although Disney distributed it, it wasn't animated at some Canadian studio called CORE or something). Anyway, it's fun to kind of observe how Disney has grown and changed through different eras and phases.
Omg I loved Fox & the Hound!!
I am one of the weirdos who likes these films. I just can't watch the fox and the hound because I ball my eyes out everytime. And there are many of the 2000s movies thay I absolutely love. Just an oddball who loves movies I guess
Hey @Smarty Pants could you talk about sequels of Disney flims
I would also add in the shift in generations that Disney was appealing to changed over the 1980s. And the two child generations being marketed at liked different things, and since Disney usually appeals to the 3 - 9 year old age range the most, they were on the back foot of having their old target demographic age out of watching them, and not quite knowing how to appeal to the next demographic yet.
The Fox and the Hound I would classify as the last film which was solely aiming at Generation X children.
The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective, and Oliver and Company were films which came out while the Millennials were slowly replacing the Xers as the target child demographic the studio most appealed to. And Millennials wanted something different than what Xers did, and for the large part, Disney (which is usually behind the times when it comes to shifting with things), still clung to stories and ideas which were designed to appeal to Gen X children, but weren't going over well with the growing Millennial audience.
Heck, while Oliver and Company did do relatively well, it competed against The Land Before Time upon its release, which was the big film everyone saw instead of Oliver and Company. And The Land Before Time was a film designed to appeal more to the emerging Millennials than Oliver & Company's attempts at still appealing to the disappearing Xers, in terms of narrative.
There were two ways to appeal to Millennials as children, either go with an ensemble story where the ensemble is made up of uniquely skilled individuals who come together to accomplish a seemingly impossible task (yes, Disney's Atlantis movie was designed to appeal to Millennials, but was post-seasonal in its release, hence why it didn't do as well), or appeal to their desire to feel special with a prince/princess narrative that they can self-insert into while you throw in some songs, and badda bing, badda boop, you appeal to child Millennials. And if you can balance out the two types of narratives into one script (a la High School Musical), you can continue appealing to Millennials as they age up, which Disney did figure out.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Black Cauldron production because it's a wild ride!
Tbh, 80s Disney was decent at best. The only bad thing I've seen from this era was Oliver and Company (in my opinion).
No offense but Roger Rabbit has to be the best one during this time.
In terms of these films specifically, the firing of Don Bluth caused Disney to flounder. Bluth, I would argue was the man capable of navigating this transition period from the shifting child demographics of Xers to Millennials the best, as he proved on his own with The Secret of NIMH, An American Tale, The Land Before Time, and All Dogs Go to Heaven. He was uniquely talented to appeal to both the aging Xer children (usually with his darker tone and scary visuals) and the incoming Millennial children (the special protagonist(s) lost in a world that's out to get them). When Bluth lost the dark edge to his films and had the world he cast his characters in less "out to get" his characters, his films started to be ignored. Ultimately Bluth would have sailed Disney through the 80s just fine, but he likely would've failed to appeal to a just Millennials only audience for Disney. And allowing themselves the opportunity to experiment as they did in the 80s, laid out better future success for Disney in the long term, as the type of stories Bluth had to tell, would only have carried them so far for so long.
Fox and the Hound was my childhood. That and Airbud
I think that the biggest reason for the lack of 80's notice was the lack of Walt. Walt had his hand in everything, marketing was being created during production, even early to mis 70's films had his touch and his communicated feelings and direction of the films. Any Disney films until the 80's was 60-70% Walt's vision and the rest was the Directors interpretation of that vision. The 80's were visionless, most movies had great potential but no guiding vision, marketing was an afterthought.
Fox & the Hound - touchy feely (today some people would call it 'woke')
Black Cauldron - Could have been the first of a 3-4 movie series based on the book series "The Chronicles of Prydain"
The Great Mouse Detective - A riff off of Sherlock Holmes
Oliver and Company - Modern take on Oliver Twist
These movies had no guiding vision and marketing was an afterthought if at all just hoping that the Disney brand would sell its self, especially with movie focus on live action and the Parks, then lightning strikes with "The Little Mermaid" and then all is well with the world and Disney is back.
Comments from the Peanut Gallery, YMMV
I like all 4, I never understood why people don't like them.
I have all of these Films.
A lot of the reason of why these films collapsed was the uprising of don bluth films, It still surprises me to this day pixar and dreamworks didn't blow disney into the water with their 2000's films as disney 2000's films flopped extremely hard despite a lot of them being good films, and im talking exclusively disney not the pixar x disney films which honestly probably is what saved them.
They had a lot of their live action movies and shows running at the time and a lot of them are obscure. Besides princess diaries, halloween town, and eventually pirates of the Caribbean. the other live action movies they put out were....questionable. The animated ones like I said were either collaborations with more succesful studios at the time via Ghibli or pixar with a few rare gems like emperors new groove and treasure planet, lilo and stitch also being another gem.
However the 2000's was also a huge 'sequal' decade for Disney and most of them being direct to VHS or DVD as most people forget having DVD's in the early 2000's was a luxury and not as common as it is now. Some of these sequels weren't all together awful though a few weren't good in an sense.
TLDR: 2000's disney was a wreck if it weren't for it's collaborations and few gems it probably wouldnt of survived at all and this is just going off the studio making films. TV Disney is another monster entirely and still is to this day.
I've actually always preferred the movies of the 80s than the ones from the 90s. Not that I don't love the 90s movies...but, when I was a kid (in the 90s), I always chose to watch The Black Cauldron (one of my favourites), The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver and Company rather than The Little Mermaid, The Lion King and others.
Actually, The Lion King and Mulan were released in the 1990s.
Sorry I wasn’t paying attention
I think there’s also the expectation of classic fairy tales / stories from Disney. The golden age and silver age are full of children classics like princesses from the brothers Grimm, Alice in wonderland and Peter Pan. I would argue the most successful film in the “dark age” is some what related to established stories, such as Winnie the Pooh (an existing children book series) and great mouse detective (some what similar to Sherlock). The renaissance start with little mermaid and beauty and the beast, and the new modern period starts with tangled with Frozen shooting Disney back to top, all based on classic fairy tales. Im not saying only Disney fairy tales are good stories, emporer, lilo, the first Ralph and zootopia are some of my favourite original stories from the modern era, but the sharp change in style in 2000 plus the failure of Dinosaurs definitely add to the initial response to Emporer’s.
Hitting right out of my alley. I was a child just when this movies came along, so my experience is just too biased. But at the time I only knew the first classics through TV and even 8mm projectors, so cancel me for having these as my first Disney experience in an actual theater. Sorry but I am incapable of being objective about this Era. 🤷🏻♂️
i don't remember if i ever saw all of these films, if i did i was very young, having been born just before any of them came out. i did see the great mouse detective and thinking it was ok, though my sister was more into little mermaid, i was more of an aladdin fan myself. and yeah the early 2000's era, that's a whole other video lol
Actually when the Disney TV series started in 1986 with Gummi Bears. Everyone loved them! Then from that onwards into the 90’s with Chip ‘N Dale, the little mermaid TV series, Aladdin TV Series, and so on… the 90’s was the best time for Disney cartoon TV series during the 90’s. If only I could have all 86 episodes of the Aladdin TV series on DVD/Blu- Ray or even on Disney +. It’s not happening and I’m not happy… it was one of my favourite Disney TV series…
Funny because Disney was focusing more on TV shows than movies in the 80s.
The simpler answer is that the Little Mermaid was Snow White/Cinderella again.
Smarty pants i have a theory about rooster bold’s weapon
His weapon is a quill
But its not a real feather the quill is a thing who looks like a feather and if you focus on his quill you will see it looks like a sharp feather
So its a quill but its not a soft feather its a sharp one and i think its so powerful
It's sad how Disney forgets these movies simply for not being successful enough,heck they don't even use them a lot for marketing or promoting
Not that, it also cause half of them suck ass.
i like the little mermaid
I think what disney is now these movies arent so bad anymore its like with The Star Wars Prequel Saga people hated it but fast foward to the Sequels and all of a sudden People pefer the Prequels over the Sequels
Judging by Disney’s history the rest of the 2020’s should be full of disappointment’s
Fox and the Hound would remind me of a separated friendship
And I thought 1986 was dark
I heard but never got in to it
I kinda like Oliver and company.
Little mermaid meh
I was born the 90s my mom was a kid in the early 80s so I grew up watching every Disney movie from the 90s all the way back to the 30s and I’d say even as a kid that would watch anything I still didn’t like black coldren the main character was a winey little shit that complained the whole movie my favorite Disney movie from my time was Atlantis the most empire my favorite classic Disney movie would probably be Robin Hood and favorite new Disney would be between tangled and zootopia
hi
style without substance is like cake without flower you can make it look nice but at the end of the day it just a goopy mess
80s Disney is blah but better than 40s Disney. 50s amazing. 60s great. 70s cute simple stories. 90s stellar. 00s better than 40s and 80s, but don't love. 10s solid.
I prefer princess Elonly is better than Ariel
My personal problems with each of these movies:
The Fox and the Hound: everything is perfect, except the friendship. Their friendship is very contrived, NOT believable and happens too fast. True friends experience hard times together as well as good times. But the fox and the hound only share a happy few moments together and I'm supposed to believe they love each other so much they would die for each other. the fox DOES almost die for the hound but it feels silly and not believable.
The Black Cauldron: basically the wrong story to be told through animation. It's actually pretty good but doesn't translate into a Disney movie.
The Great Mouse Detective: best movie of the lot. Great compelling story and great characters. I will forever be sad that this movie never got a spin-off series. If Chip n Dale, Baloo and Winnie the Pooh got their series, The Great Mouse Detective should have gotten it too. It's a perfect movie for a series, and the opportunity was missed.
Oliver and Company: 100% agree with the video. Oliver is not the main character of his own movie, and that is the biggest issue.