Flywheel Technology
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2010
- THE CENTURIES-OLD FLYWHEEL IS FINDING NEW USES IN THE 21ST CENTURY. A NEW ENGLAND COMPANY has MODERNIZED THE TECHNOLOGY. NOW THEY'RE USING IT TO UPGRADE THE NEW YORK STATE GRID AND HOPEFULLY SAVE CONSUMERS SOME MONEY IN THE PROCESS.
OUR DAN BAZILE GETS A BEHIND-THE-SCENES LOOK THIS INOUR NEW MONTHLY REPORT FROM THE INNOVATION TRAIL.
I've been a huge detractor of renewable energy sources like wind and solar because we didn't have a good way to store their energy output during non-peak hours. This technology solves that problem in a simple and brilliant way! :)
Yes... but how dose it actually work??? How exactly are the Specs??? It is not shown here!!!
@@StarLink85 It works like this:
1) Solar panel captures electricity from the sun
2) The electricity from the sun powers a motor which spins a large heavy flywheel. This converts the electrical energy into mechanical kinetic energy.
3) The sun goes down.
4) You turn on the lights in your house
5) The lights in your house creates a load on the motor which was used to spin the flywheel.
6) The motor then begins to function as a generator and the stored kinetic energy in the heavy spinning flywheel turns the motor to generate electricity which powers your lights.
7) The flywheel slowly decelerates as its mechanical kinetic energy is converted back into electrical energy
8) Sun comes back up
9) Solar panel starts spinning the flywheel faster again
10) Repeat
@Chris Russell Literally everything wears out. :P
1) These kinds of mechanical batteries experience very little wear because they use magnetic bearings so there's no physical contact between the bearing surfaces. The life span of this kind of battery is measured in decades not years like conventional batteries and the charge capacity of a mechanical battery doesn't degrade over its life like a conventional battery would.
2) Pumped hydro works great if you have a lot of water and if you have hilly terrain in which a reservoir can be constructed. That isn't the case everywhere.
3) There's no maintenance bottleneck with these kinds of batteries because there would be dozens or hundreds of them and you could take individual batteries out of service as needed without disconnecting the others.
4) This kind of battery is inherently less dangerous than either conventional batteries or pumped hydro. There's no risk of dam failure and there aren't any hazardous chemicals which could get into the water table. I for one don't want to have to figure out how to recycle thousands of tons of lithium. The way they handle the potential for the battery "exploding", as you put it, in the case of the flywheel losing structural integrity, is by placing each battery in a concrete tube below ground level. This both helps absorb any vibrations during normal operation and also safely contains the battery in case of failure.
5) These kinds of batteries can be manufactured out of non-toxic materials.
6) These kinds of batteries can be used EVERYWHERE regardless of how much water is available and regardless of whether the terrain is hilly or not.
@Chris Russell Hello Mr. Cris
/ Speaking of harmonic speed you mean: average harmonic speed?
@Chris Russell This clip is from 2010. There is a discussion about reliability here. So, does any one know how they performed since 2010?
Filed for bankruptcy 10/2011 no longer traded (delisted). March 7, 2012 Rockland Capital Completes Acquisition of Beacon Power. You will need to do a bit more digging since they've become more media shy after bankruptcy and there are very little news and numbers available both as production data and financial ones.
Denmark should buy this, we have 30% of our energy from wind turbines and produce more than we need during night time, but not during peak time.
You are using Norway as a gigantic hydroelectric battery, no real need for storage unless you produce more than the wires to Norway can handle.
@@zapfanzapfan Norway is a long way away, even with plenty of hydro, 1600km of wires to Denmark is not optimal. Flywheel storage is for intermediate peaks, not hoursor days later, which is what is needed with wind power. pumped hydro is better in that respect. However Denmark is rather flat, so what has been suggested is using our salt caves as pressured air storage.
About 100 kg spinning mass. About 700 m/s velocity. That means, one of these units stores up to 24,5 MJ. That´s 6,8 kWh. That´s the energy production of one modern big wind turbine (2,4 MW) in 10 seconds.
Just to illustrate the dimensions. You need hundreds of these units just to store 1 hour of excess energy from one single wind turbine. The big advantage: Probably more or less infinite charge- and discharge-cycles. Maybe this counts enough for some applications.
www.powermag.com/beacon-power-makes-a-comeback/ claims 25kWh (which I make to be about 90MJ). They don't show their working though ;-)
Sorry, I'm afraid your calculations are all off. You need to be thinking rotational kinetic energy not linear. There was nothing stated in the video that would give you the required rotational moment of inertia or angular velocity.
Most of the flywheel systems are used for grid frequency regulation. You need just 30 minutes of storage, and sometimes just few dozens megawatts available, to stablize the grid. This way you can save a lot in production actually.
It is unlikely to find uses in residential systems or as more long term storage. Amber Kinetics flywheel can produce 8kW for 4 hours (32kWh). Friction losses are about 96W. Which is not bad. So, it can to some extent augment a battery system, as the price could be potentially lower, and they can last 30 years. I.e. instead of using 100kWh of LiFePO4, one would do 70kWh of LiFePO4 (which one would need to replace every 10 years), and this 32kWh flywheel, and priotize consumption from flywheel. I.e. if the system is mostly solar, to store excess in battery until it is mostly full, then in flywheel (i.e. when we know the end is ending, and even if the battery is not full, to limit the battery cycling, which limits its life span), and when the sun goes down, use the one from flywheel first. Or import electricty from the grid in the very early morning (before the sun, but when the electricity in most grids is cheaper), and use it for few hours before the sun goes up for solar to kick in.
The question is exact pricing.
PS. Amber Kinetics M32, is 2000kg steel rotor. Entire assembly is 4500kg, and for safety done underground. Round trip efficiency is about 90%. Which is not bad, and similar to most lithiun-ion battery systems (some are less, some are more, depending on exact chemistry and charge/discharge currents used).
Any Idea How much it is cost?
Makes sense. Spin them up at night when the power is normally wasted then release it during the day when it's needed. It uses far more energy then it gives back just like the pumped hydro systems but they are far more compact and the energy used would be wasted in the lines unused at night anyway..
***** I thin you have that backwards. Theres much more energy available during the day. The idea is to capture as much energy as we can from the sun and wind during the day hours, to use it at night. That's the only time I personally need energy storage.
@@bugs181 wind power is the same at night. But the power usage is bigger in the day. Hence why you would storage excess power in the night. DOH.
@@nikolaiownz that only applies to wind power. Most people are probably using solar cell technology of some sort. Loads of power generated during the day but as soon as you lose the sun, night time is where you need energy on demand from storage. If you want practicality, this is also why electric companies offer discounts for night. Because there's less energy generation AND demand from night scheduled hours. There's a reason why the Tesla power pack knows to get energy from the grid at night and use it during the day. ;)
Each of these systems will have there application and usage depending on design spec.
2010?
OK, It is now nearing the end of 2017. This 2011 experiment came off ,did it?? Who can give us a thumbnail report on "what Happened"???
I don't know about this particular company, but the technology is currently being implemented already
Tyngsborough (mispelled on the program) is a town north of Boston, near the New Hampshire border. I have no idea why it's on a program called "New York Now"
I like how he said failure real way to say he we have some problems to over come. That said alot. The whole concept of flywheel was to overcome external forces that would stop a wheel from spinning just a little but more innovative application but not a total solution.
So what happened to this station?
it eventually went bankrupt then acquired. RGA currently owns them.
For stationary use, CFRP rotors at high RPMs are just bound to fail. There is no news on Beacon power since Stephentown was partially commissioned and they had to file for bancruptcy. What data do exist on the MTBF of such units now, after two years operation ?
flywheel is a supplementary technology at small scale.
Despite the losses in efficiency (I think is about 75%, which means higher than batteries), it is a valid solution to fill the peaking demand and flatten the profile of the demand curve resulting in higher costs of the system, as well as to reduce the wind energy discharges. Well, at least in the future when the price of this Flywheels is supposed to be reasonable.
1:02 il gemello di Paolo Bonolis!!!!
why not make them wider? then you don't need to move them as fast
Probably more stress on the outside
[Update]
Financially the company got a lot of investment money in from all different directions but not a lot of income so it eventually went bankrupt then acquired. RGA currently owns them.
I'm curious how a Massachusetts company got coverage from "New York Now" TV show! Tyngsborough is close to Boston, it's not a western Mass town that might be better served by WMHT instead of WGBH.
and that was all about - to get as much investment money as possible and dissapear:D:D:D in EU you can "steal" public fund in the same way using eco-terrorists moaning uuhhhh climate change, give us 100millions and we will develop a better solution (and some how very expensive at the same time):D:D:D:D
2018 it’s up to 6.00 a share
From $0.34 I share to $6 a share in 7 years is wonderful
How about a heat exchanger for air refreshing and saving heat there is way to power the flywheel and then generate power and make free energy
Great Video of a great technology!!!
A flywheel can power a Gen. The Gen can power an electric motor to maintain the rpm of the flywheel above stall.. self powered..after start up..
Apparently works like a dream
It is a butterfly governor for Diesel engines fuel system control to handle electricity voltage fulctatuation to control supply and demand in a flipping second.
This the technology I've been telling people could be modified.
My thougts exactly, hurtling frogs at walls at mach speeds buddy!
is there any danger when the rotor is out of control, or the rotor material fails?
I am replying based on my knowledge of flywheels in general and not of this product specially.
Flywheels can fail catastrophically, sending shrapnel out radially. This is why flywheels are typically housed in heavy steel containers and buried. But they can be made with carbon fiber which is wound around a core, either like thread around a bobbin or like paper towel around a cardboard tube, and besides being very strong of it does fail, the carbon fiber becomes entangled with itself creating a lot of friction and heat which dissipates the rotating masses kinetic energy.
www.timesunion.com/local/article/Flywheels-fail-at-energy-project-2227225.php
Solar power is a better example of when you need batteries, IMO
You generate the electricity during the day when the sun is up, but use the electricity at night when the sun is down and the lights are on.
@Chris Russell , water evaporates.
Also, pumped storage has 70-80% efficiency. Where as flywheels have 85-95% efficiency.
Meaning for every 100 kWh we put in, the water gets 70-80 kWh back, while the flywheel gets 85-95 kWh back.
Lithium ion batteries have 99% efficiency. But also cost a lot more to make and have a shorter shelf life.
www.mpoweruk.com/alternatives.htm
@Chris Russell , Sure, and I hate nuclear when it explodes catastrophically. But focusing only on the _possibility_ of a failure just sounds like fear mongering.
Also, water pump batteries (aka: Dams) are HUGE because they have very low energy density. Flywheels have far better energy density.
If you're dead set on using gravitational potential for energy storage, I'd sooner vote for metal slabs on pulleys than to use pumped water.
Induction motors are upward of 98% right now, kinetic storage is also safer and better understood. thermal/chemical storage looks promising but i've not seen anythingthat can compete with what flywheels can do right now.
arguably flywheel storage already exists. some grids, particuarly in britan. they keep generators spinning and in sync but disconnected from the grid, then switch them on when the grid is under load.
(this applys to power grids only, electric cars for example cant use flywheels)
⚡
What efficiency does this have?
Just seeing ballpark figures on the web of 85 - 97% efficiency. It's magnetically floating in a vacuum, so in principle there shouldn't be any factors that can really slow this thing down, no bearings and no air to cause friction.
when you spin up the flywheel and immidiatelly get the energy out again, the eff is close 100% limited by the eff of motor/generator unit that takes it to +-95%
only problem is when the energy should be stored for a long time as the rotation decays due to friction, slowly though, thanks for the way the wheel is suspended.
Importantly, flywheels are not to be used for long term storage, the main advantages are instant power and a Very large power output if needed.
flywheels forever
Good thing these guys have never played Beyblades, they wouldn't be able to sleep at night
Flywheel storage is short term storage, think minutes for a flywheel that size and a large load. They act more like giant capacitors than batteries, storing a charge and smoothing out small blips in the power grid or supporting a section of grid for a very short period during a failure. These will not work well with solar but might have potential with wind. Although you would still need a pretty steady source of wind to make it work well.
Прикольные накопители. Странно, что до сих пор не заместили химические аккумуляторы. Хотя бы стационарные.
А в землю маховики всё-равно закапывают :-) Боятся разрыва?
Мне как-то рассказывали, как при испытания механического гироскопа раскрученный маховик вылетел и стал скакать по комнате. Доску стола из ДСП пробил насквозь. А массой он был меньше килограмма, грамм 200-400.
при разрыве и стену бетонную может пробить
Can see it being responsive like a capacitor but probably not an effective battery. Wait till the bearings need to be replaced
Why would they use mechanical bearing though?
In the current I was
already found of Thermodynamic rules for green power plant is input = output +
output + output + output: Example 40 KW/
Input side it can become 1.5 MW/ Output side ( Is not input = output-loss ) May I join with
you?
Flywheels seems to have about the same energy density as capacitors and the same advantages, they can charge and discharge very quickly and suffer almost no degradation for years and years and 1000s upon 1000s of cycles. But for large storage, batteries have dropped so much in price and keeps dropping due to electric cars, I don't see the advantage of flywheels storage.
advantages are no chemicals, cheap build materials and no enviromental hazzard.
Micro fly wheel system could be adapted to cars and other devices to enable power control and deal with fluctuations.
Space craft might also be able to use these systems. I am not a mechanical engineer but how would such systems work in zero gravity.
Flywheels are used in satellites as batteries. Wild temperature fluctuations and vacuum is hard on any kind of chemistry and they are used now commercially to run electronics when the sat is in Earth shadow twice a year.
Some numbers please
42
Too bad they didn't make it.
The numbers I'm finding on this tech do look cometitive.
The weakness of flywheel is short time save the power, may be for next time can increase time saving power
Why can't i use this to power a car?
Car isn't moving on a straight line, too much slope changes, turns, vibrations, etc.
Historically they did use a similar system to run a bus service in Switzerland iirc. There's a video here on UA-cam titled "The Mechanical Battery" by New Mind channel ID you're interested.
@M Detlef
"You IDIOT!!!!"
Ha-ha, that's a bold statement :D
"You use it to CHARGE the BATTERIES in a car. When the sun is NOT out."
I don't think the powering a car (a(!) car, not cars, and to power, not to charge) implies that.
More of it, the key point of the video is the exchange with the power grid, "When the sun is NOT out",
so you can do whatever, charge your car or power your washing machine.
So why someone would suggest something that already was implied in the source?
Connect the dots sir, I'm sure you can do this!
I keep picturing a small earthquake turning all of them into landmines.
Don't think they are going to really go off center so easy considering they are giant tops.
@@ConceptHut they said in the video, the walls are made to withstand a failure and stio the movement.
It's really interesting but it isn't a cheap system. The environment would benefit if it were cheap. Please, take a look too at heat of fusion values. NaCl(Very cheap. Tfus: about 800°C): around 300 kwh/m3, iron: around 500 kwh/m3, Silicium...
it sound like they are useing some of joe newman ieas in this thing
They do t care if it works or not they got the 40 million
actually the earths magnetic field would be a huge benefit....it's current is half the equation!
R8
I don't see what keeps us from hoisting up a giant weight; made of anything - even dirt or land mass; so essentially each unit of land mass is a "kinetic energy resource."
Flywheels seem of the same type, store rotational or centrifugal kinetic energy, or "twist motion," instead of just vertical potential energy being stored, and probably harvested by centrifugal means.
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A giant land mass in eaach house could be used as a giant battery. A new feature of homes may be a giant "weight." This weight could be charged by anything that provides mechanical force to lift it. You could physically lift it. It could be leveraged to give you a free weight set and home gym resistance without needing giant weights; just need safe attachments. Solar could raise the weight slowly with correct size motors. Wind, geo thermal, you name it could store into a "gravity battery."
capoman1 What keeps us from: Costs. Suppose, you wanted to store 10 kWh: This would be roughly the potential energy of 360 metric tons elevated 10 meters. Or 3600 metric tons elevated 1 meter.
Imagine, what big and powerful and expensive system you would need for this!
And you could store the same energy in 20 simple cheap car batteries.
Probably even with higher efficiency.
Thomas Schuster Good points. Just one point you missed. The maintenance comparison on each system. Essentially the weighted system would last forever, whereas a "cheap car battery" would need replacing every 15 to 20 years. Probably less.
bugs181 It certainly wouldn't last forever, you have to obtain the stored energy somehow and that would involve some kind of mechanism which would wear out.
idontcare80 That's why I said essentially. Every system, no matter how perfect requires maintenance. It's just the way things work. Things degrade over time. My point still stands about conventional batteries needing replaced more often than a system that doesn't because of the metals that deteriorate due to chemical reactions.
capoman1 There are systems like that, but they are not very economical...
Having something fluid, and pumping it up and down is much more efficent and last longer...
... and its very common, called a pump-power station. Exist just about everywhere.
I wonder how many percent of energy you loose per hour of it not being utilized.
BlueBetaPro about 0.1%
I thought I heard these are in a vacuum (no air friction) and use magnetic bearings (very low friction) ? Oh, never mind, I see your last name, you are spreading propaganda for "your" energy concerns.
matsv201@ the percent of energy loose 0.1% per minute or second Sir ?
hour.
that is actually pretty much. NiMh batteries may lose as much as 1% a day, that is actually less than half. Normal Lithium batteries usually loses 5% a month or so.
That is actually a fairly big problem for backup batteries.
Try magnetic levitation
If someone could scale it down for home use........ I'd say SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
Those system exist and comparably they’re incredibly expensive for home use. Just get lithium batteries.
I work with flywheels. You would need hundreds, maybe thousands for this application. How many joules can you store per flywheel? What are the losses?
If you work with flywheels, you are the guy who should know the answers instead of asking random people on the net.
this will never work unless it is scaled to a mega-structure level, 1 huge multi-part flywheel with a large radius is better than 50 small ones like in this video. everyone likes to invest in power generation and harnessing rather than storage, but something like this can be useful with offloading peak power of cities during the afternoon, especially if these cities lie near hydropower dams that have stable power around the clock.
These are used for rapid frequency regulation.. Multiple units allows for more consistent frequency matching.
You are actually wrong. energy content increases faster with speed than mass, so bigger flywheels store less per kg! The optimum is a double cone shaped flywheel with the flat side against each other made from a single strand of carbon fiber, which can attain speeds on 100 of thousands rpm.
Didn't say anything about cost effectiveness. From what I understand, flywheel storage is the most expensive way to do this....
Well because it's such a rare product, there are one or two companies that do this stuff and they do it in small numbers, which makes things very expensive.
On the upside however once a unit is produced there is no reason they can't run forever, 15-20 year bearing change cycle but nothing else can wear out... although manufacturers probably don't want them to go for too long, otherwise they would have nothing else to sell.
@@MsSomeonenew alas, the capitalist problem
Why are your fw so tall an thin? You must keep high speed and you have small reserve to keep structural integrity. Should not be better use slower and wider fw ? It is like figure skating.. And did you calculate with coriolis force ?
No wonder they went bankrupt. They went through 4 revisions over 10 years? and this is what they came up with? Vacuum sealing does nothing. Air friction plays such a little part compared to the generator. And why carbon fibre flywheel? The whole point is density. Carbon fibre is just adding cost for a loss in mass. Steel is 800% denser/heavier than carbon fibre. They quoted 200lbs for the flywheel. That will get you like 20 seconds of backup power, versus minutes with a steel equivalent weighing tonnes.
Flywheels are a fantastic application for energy storage. Beacon Power, however, has no idea what they're doing.
Haha... but it's 10 years of research...
Sudden demand on peak surge so kind of over run unity 😂 😂 😂
It's sad that chemical and electron energy storage methods are so weak we turn to kinetic physical methods.
This will never be cost effective.
I don't think the flywheel is going to "flop" this time. With as much grid scale energy storage as we need, we just don't have the resources to produce the battery capacity needed, to go 100% renewable. We do need the batteries, we DEFINITELY need flywheel, as well as pumped hydro and other more conventional grid scale storage technology. No ONE technology can do it alone. Modular systems like this are the future, because of the redundancy in the event of failure of one of many units. The three properties that need to be addressed, are: 1. round trip efficiency. 2, standby loss. 3, levelized cost per megawatt hour of energy. The 3rd thing includes the purchase price of the equipment/energy storage capacity X cycle life. I think flywheels are ahead of batteries on this one. One HUGE advantage of inertial energy storage, is that you can measure the RPM, and know EXACTLY how much energy you have available from that wheel.(drum, rotor, whatever you're calling it these days) Batteries have a thing called the Peukert's exponent, where depending on the discharge rate, the batteries may not deliver full rated capacity. Flywheels don't care how long it took to spool them up, or brake them down, Flywheels "never change, until they go bang".
Here's a positive; no lithium required.
Let the market decide.
More better
They said work better.
keep it simple - invest in H2 fuel cell Technology - The electrolysis of water to create Hydrogen to power a combustion engine
Electrolysis is inefficient, and furthermore combustion engines are extremely inefficient. If you go down the hydrogen route, fuel cells are the best way to go
+Apapabay Fachmann With fresh water shortages, in many places in the world I think a mass attempt to change water into Hydrogen would only increase the problem.
Create oxygen at the same time you could use the hydrogen and oxygen spliter in your bunker to run your cave steam system to create power. Maybe that's to far fetched.
i can & have improved this system 10,000 times .
For 45 Million who wouldn't go bankrupt, Ha Ha.
& they got 🤣
The larger diameter the flywheel is the slower it can run and store more energy regards Graham Flowers
Thats not a fly wheel at all.
😅
Flywheel is a terrible idea to mitigate wind. Wind is not a scale technology, using it is pretty dumbo.
Greasy slimy crooks.
I thought carbon fiber was supposed to be lightweight. This would make more sense to me if the guy just said "made of carbon"
0:57 vocabulary fail.
You taxes at waste. -_-
Uh, flywheels don't power EITHER of your examples. Steamboats are powered by STEAM ENGINES that use flywheels to balance the vibrations and harmonics of the large, low-speed engines and they provide some "governing" effect and typically have a STARTING FUNCTION or DRIVE FUNCTION as well. Windmills are powered by the WIND. Flywheels CONSUME POWER. They do not "store it" beyond the INTERTIA they "contain" when POWER IS REMOVED FROM THEM.
If FLYWHEELS are the answer for "when the wind doesn't blow" how are current "wind farms" getting by? Oh, that's right. They "get by" through the BASE LOAD GENERATION PLANTS that always GO WITH THEM either in the form of EXISTING POWERPLANTS or the much smaller and LESS VISIBLE natural-gas "base load" plants that are also connected to the "grid". And why do you need flywheels IN ADDITION TO WIND TURBINES? Doesn't ever WIND TURBINE have its OWN FLYWHEELS BUILT RIGHT IN?
There's a reason your "green energy" company is "surviving" on government welfare. The technology is a HOAX.
@DEEREMEYER1 I was slightly exasperated to go to a second flywheel video (after watching the excellent NASA one at ua-cam.com/video/mz_7UF4KQpk/v-deo.html ) and see another person typing in INTERMITTENT CAPS about how much they hate flywheels. So I suppose it's a welcome surprise to realise that you're the same person.
The point of having flywheels / batteries / pumping water uphill to balance the grid is to be able, eventually, to do away with the base load plants.
what a waste! It takes lots of energy to spin these up...and the maint. will be high......batteries are far better......longer lasting...and can be recycled.
Roy Hemion Actually no. A batteryry can only go with about 1000 cycles or so, but a fly wheel can easialy do 20 000 cycles.
Ok....considering how well bearings and other no to low friction devices become, I retract my statement.
+Roy Hemion 0:42 -"..vacuum tank...and suspended by powerfull magnets.". Almost no friction thereby.
I guess there are more problems like eddy currents, Earth magnetic field and probably the rotating of the Earth.
+Roy Hemion "what a waste! It takes lots of energy to spin these up" that is the point Roy. :-)
+lweinbergjr, Agreed, some of the comments out here just prove a complete lack of understanding of rudimentary conservation of energy (first law of thermodynamics) principles.