I imagine if my work ever makes it to an editor I'm gonna get slapped with at least one of those, and if I do, my soul is gonna fire out of my body like a cannonball
@presshusfightlady3966 The imagery you just manifested in my brain with that line had me laughing like an idiot so I think you've got a good funny bone at least
Fablehaven was my favourite series as a kid (Beyonders too) and now as I am way older I love Stormlight Archive and Mistborn so it's crazy seeing those two authors together!
Submitting to agents is literally being told "I want something that I've never seen before and takes my breath away with originality", while being required to list every comp title so that they know exactly what to expect and how to sell it without reading a page.
It only just clicked right now, but it's refreshing to have a podcast without ten minutes of ads. I don't begrudge podcasters trying to make a living, but it's nice not to have to deal with the flow interruption
But don’t you want to get BetterHelp therapy lying on your Casper mattress while admiring your Fracture photo that you ordered from your Squarespace domain email on NordVPN?
@zorgate I'm talking about integrated ad spots where the podcast hosts read the ad in the video itself. So an ad blocker wouldn't work, and sponsor block only works on UA-cam, not podcasting apps
Imagine having Brandon Mull return even with Dan back and have all three in the podcast. The issue is you’ll need another camera and microphone but the idea is neat.
You are both huge inspirations to me as an aspiring author. Sanderson is the undisputed king of creative magic, and while Fablehaven was definitely middle grade, I personally thoroughly loved it at 50+. After watching Sanderson's BYU course online I've finally published my first novel, and I'm about half way through my second. It's an addiction even if I don't make any money yet. I'm very impressed that Mull's first book ever written did so well. I wish I had that kind of innate talent. I have a very active imagination, and no lack of ideas for stories, but writing is one of those easy to do, difficult to master skills. "Mistborn was a huge flop, it only sold like 8,000." I wish I was that big of a failure. I'm pretty sure that only friends and family have bought my book so far.
I found Mistborn by that $5 version while looking around a mall bookstore before a movie. About a month later, you were announced to complete Wheel of Time and I became a fan for life.
My two favorite authors chatting is the best thing ever! I grew up reading Brandon Mull and still love his books! As an adult now, I’ve wanted Brandon Mull to write YA or adult fantasy, so it’s interesting to hear about why he’s stuck around in the middle grade genre.
Idk why you feel this way about Alcatraz! That has been an absolute favorite series in our home - from my then 8yo when we started to my older son, who is now almost 14, and both Mom and Dad love them all as well. We also love all of your books, and are extremely grateful that most are not very sexualized, making them easier to enjoy as a family - and boy does our family love almost every book/short story/novella/secret projects you've published - regardless of the genre. Even more impressive for you, fantasty was definitely not my genre before your writing! Stormlight Archive books are epic.
Fablehaven was one of the middle-grade series that really got me into fantasy when I was growing up! Something about fantasy authors named Brandon must really click with me haha
I read Alcatraz about 10 yrs ago, as a 12 year old. It was one of my favourite books back then and a couple of years later when I started in the online-world, I made my username Alcatratz, based on your book (with a t in there so it would never say "this username is taken"). All following 5 books of this series I read about a year ago, because as far as i know never got translated. Even though I am now much older than the target audience, I still had a good time with them. Thank you for writing them!
Love both of your work! Fablehaven and Alcatraz is listen to constantly by my children. Even as they get older those two series are like comfort food, it just makes them happy.
25% of my bookshelf are these 2 amazing authors. My OCD or coincidence, your choice, put them on the same level. (I would say shelf, but it's not exactly a bookshelf. It's my entire wall with book "crevices.")
Dude I never knew what Brandon Mull looked like but he lowkey looks EXACTLY like the grandpa from Fablehaven always looked in my head while reading the books (at least from this angle)
This was a fascinating conversation. Regarding adult publishing industry, the first time I beta read for an indie author, I made a comment about my feelings towards a character (which is what I did as a beta for fanfic and just as a commentator/reviewer on fics and books), and the author thought I was saying he should take out the scene. Some adult authors just don't seem to want the side commentary and emojis!
FYI My son was starting to age out of Alcatraz when we discovered it, but it was the first series he was willing to really read on his own. I thought it was fun.
Beyonders having been written as an adult novel first explains so much. Some of the elements were very MG, but a lot of the world/plot felt like something you'd expect in a book with an older target audience. I wonder what MG-esk elements were present in the original version to make editors say it was better for MG.
I like both of these authors because the standards that they adhere to. I know there will be no unacceptable language or graphic romance descriptions. Just good clean reading. Thank you
Fablehaven is truly incredible. I only discovered it in my early 20's, and it has been one of my favorite things to read it a second time with my young daughter. I look forward to being able to nerd out about Stormlight as she gets older. :)
Beyonders especially, but also The Five Kingdoms and Fablehaven, were my favorite books growing up. Still reading the sequels. Can't wait for a Beyonder's sequel!
Really like the vibe when it’s the two Brandons. Just a personal preference, but I think it works a bit better than with Dan for more substantial conversations.
That's insane to hear the Mistborn story. I'm so happy it did well because it's amazing. While I do understand some of the reasons for publishing that was discussed, I want to be published one day and it's kinda scary with the stuff they talked about
There are a lot more cross-genre books in recent years. I think it's because of the difference between selling in a store, where an author has to be in a physical place on the shelf, and selling online. In the online space, people can search for an author and see everything by them. And a single book can exist in multiple categories, even down to quite specific subcategories.
Thing is, I want Terry Brooks to write another Shannara book! I want Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman to write another Dragons book! I want Robin Hobb to write another River Wilds, Sea Serpent, Assassins book! I want McCaffrey family to write another Pern Book !!!! And we all want Brando Sando to keep pumping out those Cosmere/non-Cosmere books ! 😀 Also I nominate more guest appearances of Wandan Mullerson 😀
You should both author a book called The Brandon Book. A Book about Brandon. Starring a character named Brandon. It could be a short story or another picture book.
It's so interesting to hear Publishers want to keep authors in one box or one genre because I always follow the author after reading a book I enjoy. I've always been "ohhh I wonder what else this author wrote" rather than "I want more of this same story/genre from this person."
I get the divide between Children's and Adult, but these extra divides of Middle Grade and YA confuse, or maybe confound, me. I went from Tolkien and Dumas to Moorcock, John Norman, Asimov and Huxley before 5th grade. They would all be separated into different categories now, and hard to discover on my own. I believe in Mitch Hedbergs quip 'All books are children's books if the child can read".
@BrandonMull please make your sequel series for beyonders and the five kingdoms more towards YA, so you can grow into them and still enjoy them as you get up to them as you get older
Brandon Mull I just want to say thank you for Fablehaven it was the quintessential series of my childhood and really is the main reason my love of fantasy continues into my adulthood ❤
Man, that series was my jam in elementary school. I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or relieved that it avoided the late 2000s youth fantasy adaptation craze.
I’d hate a live action adaptation, it would have too many chances of looking cheap. But an animated adaptation I’d love, that way everything and everybody would look like how their supposed to.
One challenge for the money people is finding someone who can reliably tell them when something is likely to be an exception to the general statistics, and then listening to that person.
It's crushing when you're putting in your best work. That made me laugh. I'm an engineer, when you write / check documents, crushing would be welcome, brutal is the reality. Not in the same league, none of us can even spell never mind write but ya, I hear you. Made me laugh though.
Had this playing as audio and didn't get my volume on for the intro. Assumed it was Dan Wells with different audio setup at first. Was very confused why someone would call Dan a YA/MG author 😅
There's a reason that Sue Grafton wrote 25 books with one character and a basic premise that covered about 5 -7 years. There's a reason Patricia Briggs has written a bunch of "Mercy Thompson" books. There's a reason Kathryn Lasky has a ton of books about the Owls, wolves, bears, and other creatures of the Great White North.
I saw three books in I think the k through m range at an antiques store and was later saddened to learn that she ran out of steam with just one letter left, then died with just 25 done. (Haven't read them of course)
@@minerman60101 I think she had been working on the last one, but she was getting old and slowing down. I was surprised she made it to Y. I first met Sue when some of her staff called me to service their computers. She was at R at the time. She finished a book every 2 years at that time.
If I were an aspiring author trying to get published and an editor wrote "Do better" or "Was this supposed to be funny?" on my draft, I would be crushed. Yikes.
Ive always said that if i ever become an author (witch i decided not to cuse my ego is the size of a small planet and i got tierd of hurting pepole) i would love to publish ya midle grades. I absolutly love that genree. Yea i like some pg13 once in a while. My stomach just cant tolarate gore. Anyway yea i checkt out your books and it looks like something i would buy in a heart beat mull.😊
Love this type of podcast. Big question though, not sure if you've already covered it in another video, but what is your thought process like when you're just starting the first draft and you're still finding your way into the pace, the voice, the characters? Do you invent details on the fly? How do you handle pacing in the first scenes when you're still semi-exploring? (Been an outliner and it hasn't worked for me, so I'm trying to be more of a pantser with only the big beats and character arcs planned beforehand.)
I am fully prepared to fight my editors with the same level of ferocity as they dish out. I don't get why some writers and editors believe that strict, brutal editorial feedback is necessary for producing better quality writing, or that being tactful and encouraging is tantamount to coddling. You can be positive and encouraging, and critical and constructive, without being a tyrannical jerk.
On the cover art, I wonder... why do books end up getting terrible cover arts? Like.. there are so many freelance artists on twitter etc. who will do amazing art for not-much-cost; and yet books sometimes come out with covers that are absolute anti-sellers. Don't publishers have some kind of "quality control" (for lack of a nicer term) on all this? Especially Fantasy seems to fall victim to this...
A genuine “Was this supposed to be funny?” is a BRUTAL note
I imagine if my work ever makes it to an editor I'm gonna get slapped with at least one of those, and if I do, my soul is gonna fire out of my body like a cannonball
@presshusfightlady3966 The imagery you just manifested in my brain with that line had me laughing like an idiot so I think you've got a good funny bone at least
The worst part is it’s brutal both ways. “This was funny and it wasn’t supposed to be,” is just as bad as, “This was supposed to be funny?”
Brandon and Brandon bounce off each other so well. Its also really fun to hear the differences between the adult and ya/middle grade worlds.
Two writers and they could only come up with one name.
Clearly their parents are not as original as they are!
Fablehaven was my favourite series as a kid (Beyonders too) and now as I am way older I love Stormlight Archive and Mistborn so it's crazy seeing those two authors together!
Same!
Same!!
Submitting to agents is literally being told "I want something that I've never seen before and takes my breath away with originality", while being required to list every comp title so that they know exactly what to expect and how to sell it without reading a page.
It only just clicked right now, but it's refreshing to have a podcast without ten minutes of ads.
I don't begrudge podcasters trying to make a living, but it's nice not to have to deal with the flow interruption
But don’t you want to get BetterHelp therapy lying on your Casper mattress while admiring your Fracture photo that you ordered from your Squarespace domain email on NordVPN?
freakin block the ads
@zorgate I'm talking about integrated ad spots where the podcast hosts read the ad in the video itself.
So an ad blocker wouldn't work, and sponsor block only works on UA-cam, not podcasting apps
It probably helps that the entire podcast is basically an ad for their books/personal brand as authors.
I've really enjoyed listening to Brandon & Brandon, and I hope Brandon Mull comes back to guest on the podcast again!
Imagine having Brandon Mull return even with Dan back and have all three in the podcast. The issue is you’ll need another camera and microphone but the idea is neat.
You are both huge inspirations to me as an aspiring author. Sanderson is the undisputed king of creative magic, and while Fablehaven was definitely middle grade, I personally thoroughly loved it at 50+. After watching Sanderson's BYU course online I've finally published my first novel, and I'm about half way through my second. It's an addiction even if I don't make any money yet. I'm very impressed that Mull's first book ever written did so well. I wish I had that kind of innate talent. I have a very active imagination, and no lack of ideas for stories, but writing is one of those easy to do, difficult to master skills.
"Mistborn was a huge flop, it only sold like 8,000." I wish I was that big of a failure. I'm pretty sure that only friends and family have bought my book so far.
I found Mistborn by that $5 version while looking around a mall bookstore before a movie. About a month later, you were announced to complete Wheel of Time and I became a fan for life.
Niceee
If Brandon and Dan fused, they would be Brandan. But if Brandon and Dan fused, they would be Dandon
My two favorite authors chatting is the best thing ever! I grew up reading Brandon Mull and still love his books! As an adult now, I’ve wanted Brandon Mull to write YA or adult fantasy, so it’s interesting to hear about why he’s stuck around in the middle grade genre.
Idk why you feel this way about Alcatraz! That has been an absolute favorite series in our home - from my then 8yo when we started to my older son, who is now almost 14, and both Mom and Dad love them all as well. We also love all of your books, and are extremely grateful that most are not very sexualized, making them easier to enjoy as a family - and boy does our family love almost every book/short story/novella/secret projects you've published - regardless of the genre.
Even more impressive for you, fantasty was definitely not my genre before your writing! Stormlight Archive books are epic.
My favorite childhood author with my favorite current author. Mull introduced me to fantasy with Fablehaven, and Sanderson keeps me addicted. So cool.
Brandon mull was my gate way into Brandon Sanderson
For the record, my 6th graders (I'm a teacher) loved it when I read Alcatraz to them!
dan is great but it's really nice to hear brandon talk with people who have different experiences and different stories.
I agree!
These past two eps with B.Mull is my reminder that I need to finally read the final Dragonwatch book.
Don't. Draw your own conclusion to the story. I swear it will be better.
@@IkeMastree lol
Just to provide an alternate pov, I disagree with the other comment here and I liked the last book.
@@IkeMastree how was book 5 any worse than the rest of the series
@@lumpylumpyloo Ah, the same reasons The Final Spark is the worst Michael Vey book.
Please bring this man to Dragonsteel!
The 50% who dropped off by Alloy of Law just don't know the benefits of a good hat yet.
🤠
Fablehaven was one of the middle-grade series that really got me into fantasy when I was growing up! Something about fantasy authors named Brandon must really click with me haha
I read Alcatraz about 10 yrs ago, as a 12 year old. It was one of my favourite books back then and a couple of years later when I started in the online-world, I made my username Alcatratz, based on your book (with a t in there so it would never say "this username is taken"). All following 5 books of this series I read about a year ago, because as far as i know never got translated. Even though I am now much older than the target audience, I still had a good time with them.
Thank you for writing them!
Love Brandon’s work. Currently reading words of radiance.
Love both of your work! Fablehaven and Alcatraz is listen to constantly by my children. Even as they get older those two series are like comfort food, it just makes them happy.
My two favorite authors ever!!
Finished with the third Fablehaven book yesterday so this will be interesting to listen to! Sanderson with his experience in both will be fun
25% of my bookshelf are these 2 amazing authors. My OCD or coincidence, your choice, put them on the same level. (I would say shelf, but it's not exactly a bookshelf. It's my entire wall with book "crevices.")
My daughter is reading through The Candy Shop War 😊
Hearing Brandon say 'kids and animals going on adventures, that could be really dumb' while playing pokemon on my switch made me lol
I love that description of Beyonders: almost Narnian, but when the battles happen they get serious
I love Beyonders! I love its unique blend of humor and epic fantasy, and I have recommended it to so many people!
Dude I never knew what Brandon Mull looked like but he lowkey looks EXACTLY like the grandpa from Fablehaven always looked in my head while reading the books (at least from this angle)
This was a fascinating conversation.
Regarding adult publishing industry, the first time I beta read for an indie author, I made a comment about my feelings towards a character (which is what I did as a beta for fanfic and just as a commentator/reviewer on fics and books), and the author thought I was saying he should take out the scene. Some adult authors just don't seem to want the side commentary and emojis!
FYI My son was starting to age out of Alcatraz when we discovered it, but it was the first series he was willing to really read on his own. I thought it was fun.
Beyonders having been written as an adult novel first explains so much. Some of the elements were very MG, but a lot of the world/plot felt like something you'd expect in a book with an older target audience. I wonder what MG-esk elements were present in the original version to make editors say it was better for MG.
I just reading again, by reading Sanderson's books, and it took them mentioning Candy Shop War for me to realize I read Mull's books too.
I like both of these authors because the standards that they adhere to. I know there will be no unacceptable language or graphic romance descriptions. Just good clean reading. Thank you
My 5 year old daughter is loving the Alcatraz audio books she keeps on telling me my talent is losing things
😂
🤭👍🏼
I rely have enjoyed your books keep up the good work
Awesome interview. Hope to see more episodes like this one.
Fablehaven is amazing. I read it to my kid and loved it.
This was a very cool discussion, I really enjoyed it.
Brandon Mull 🙌🏽
Thanks for the insights!
What a fun trilogy of episodes!
I really liked these last 3 episodes, you should have Brandon back for some Brandon, Brandon, & Dan episodes in the future!
Fablehaven is truly incredible. I only discovered it in my early 20's, and it has been one of my favorite things to read it a second time with my young daughter. I look forward to being able to nerd out about Stormlight as she gets older. :)
Beyonders especially, but also The Five Kingdoms and Fablehaven, were my favorite books growing up. Still reading the sequels. Can't wait for a Beyonder's sequel!
great episode
Really like the vibe when it’s the two Brandons. Just a personal preference, but I think it works a bit better than with Dan for more substantial conversations.
This reminds me, I need to get started on my own book.
Beyonders is one of the most memorable stories I read as a teenager, shout out Ferrin and Tark if you know you know
Seth needs to visit Threnody; and Kendra could totally bond an honorspren on Roshar. Hoid would be incredibly fun in the Beyonder's world.
I see Brandon Mull…I click
I’m going to check out “mulling it over” podcast. I can’t get enough of literary advice.
That's insane to hear the Mistborn story. I'm so happy it did well because it's amazing. While I do understand some of the reasons for publishing that was discussed, I want to be published one day and it's kinda scary with the stuff they talked about
There are a lot more cross-genre books in recent years. I think it's because of the difference between selling in a store, where an author has to be in a physical place on the shelf, and selling online. In the online space, people can search for an author and see everything by them. And a single book can exist in multiple categories, even down to quite specific subcategories.
Alaska mentioned 🌠
Thing is,
I want Terry Brooks to write another Shannara book!
I want Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman to write another Dragons book!
I want Robin Hobb to write another River Wilds, Sea Serpent, Assassins book!
I want McCaffrey family to write another Pern Book !!!!
And we all want Brando Sando to keep pumping out those Cosmere/non-Cosmere books !
😀
Also I nominate more guest appearances of Wandan Mullerson 😀
You should both author a book called The Brandon Book. A Book about Brandon. Starring a character named Brandon.
It could be a short story or another picture book.
It's so interesting to hear Publishers want to keep authors in one box or one genre because I always follow the author after reading a book I enjoy. I've always been "ohhh I wonder what else this author wrote" rather than "I want more of this same story/genre from this person."
awesome podcast again.
Alcatraz is so good though! It was my read to see me through lockdown and even though I'm 30+ I had a wonderful time!
I was hoping Dan would be back based on the thumbnail. But oh well a Brandon squared episode it is.
7:27 Is that why I liked Alcatraz so much (until the last Alcatraz written one)?
All my friends loved it too
Alcatraz is my favorite Sanderson series.
I never would have thought someone could brutally criticise Sanderson's works. Most of the time I find the writing and tone flawless
I get the divide between Children's and Adult, but these extra divides of Middle Grade and YA confuse, or maybe confound, me. I went from Tolkien and Dumas to Moorcock, John Norman, Asimov and Huxley before 5th grade. They would all be separated into different categories now, and hard to discover on my own. I believe in Mitch Hedbergs quip 'All books are children's books if the child can read".
100%. Thank goodness I didn't get sectioned off into YA or middle grade when I started reading.
I liked Fablehaven and *loved* Candyshop War as a kid. I had forgotten until now that Candyshop War was the same author.
0:55 "I'll do a bunch of adult stuff"
That sounds like a different career...
Let's go Brandons!
@BrandonMull please make your sequel series for beyonders and the five kingdoms more towards YA, so you can grow into them and still enjoy them as you get up to them as you get older
I had all these books as a kid. I love the cover art, but I barely remember what was actually in the books now lol
Brandon Mull I just want to say thank you for Fablehaven it was the quintessential series of my childhood and really is the main reason my love of fantasy continues into my adulthood ❤
Who else thinks fabelhaven deserves a good tv adaptation? 🙋🏽♀️
Man, that series was my jam in elementary school. I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or relieved that it avoided the late 2000s youth fantasy adaptation craze.
I’d hate a live action adaptation, it would have too many chances of looking cheap. But an animated adaptation I’d love, that way everything and everybody would look like how their supposed to.
Key takeaway - The Hobbit is middle grade and The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant is YA. 😆
One challenge for the money people is finding someone who can reliably tell them when something is likely to be an exception to the general statistics, and then listening to that person.
It's crushing when you're putting in your best work. That made me laugh. I'm an engineer, when you write / check documents, crushing would be welcome, brutal is the reality. Not in the same league, none of us can even spell never mind write but ya, I hear you. Made me laugh though.
Had this playing as audio and didn't get my volume on for the intro. Assumed it was Dan Wells with different audio setup at first. Was very confused why someone would call Dan a YA/MG author 😅
There's a reason that Sue Grafton wrote 25 books with one character and a basic premise that covered about 5 -7 years.
There's a reason Patricia Briggs has written a bunch of "Mercy Thompson" books.
There's a reason Kathryn Lasky has a ton of books about the Owls, wolves, bears, and other creatures of the Great White North.
I saw three books in I think the k through m range at an antiques store and was later saddened to learn that she ran out of steam with just one letter left, then died with just 25 done. (Haven't read them of course)
@@minerman60101 I think she had been working on the last one, but she was getting old and slowing down. I was surprised she made it to Y. I first met Sue when some of her staff called me to service their computers. She was at R at the time. She finished a book every 2 years at that time.
If I were an aspiring author trying to get published and an editor wrote "Do better" or "Was this supposed to be funny?" on my draft, I would be crushed. Yikes.
Ive always said that if i ever become an author (witch i decided not to cuse my ego is the size of a small planet and i got tierd of hurting pepole) i would love to publish ya midle grades. I absolutly love that genree. Yea i like some pg13 once in a while. My stomach just cant tolarate gore. Anyway yea i checkt out your books and it looks like something i would buy in a heart beat mull.😊
This was a very insightful look into the publishing industry and you two’s past experience with it, thank you for sharing I enjoyed it!
The publishing industry needs to be rebirthed. The whole system is so ineffective and ridiculous.
Oh i need to read candy shop 3 ig
Watching This has made me realise why some authors seem to be writing the same thing...
Love this type of podcast. Big question though, not sure if you've already covered it in another video, but what is your thought process like when you're just starting the first draft and you're still finding your way into the pace, the voice, the characters? Do you invent details on the fly? How do you handle pacing in the first scenes when you're still semi-exploring? (Been an outliner and it hasn't worked for me, so I'm trying to be more of a pantser with only the big beats and character arcs planned beforehand.)
I am fully prepared to fight my editors with the same level of ferocity as they dish out. I don't get why some writers and editors believe that strict, brutal editorial feedback is necessary for producing better quality writing, or that being tactful and encouraging is tantamount to coddling. You can be positive and encouraging, and critical and constructive, without being a tyrannical jerk.
wow adult fiction editors sound savage.
On the cover art, I wonder... why do books end up getting terrible cover arts? Like.. there are so many freelance artists on twitter etc. who will do amazing art for not-much-cost; and yet books sometimes come out with covers that are absolute anti-sellers. Don't publishers have some kind of "quality control" (for lack of a nicer term) on all this? Especially Fantasy seems to fall victim to this...
They totally “call me by your name.”
Wow Brandon mull! Heard a lot of secrets!
Did they make two thumbnails for this vid?
Like one with mistborn and the other with fableheaven
@BrandonMull is The Guardian series going to be a new world, or a sequel to one of your previous series?
Why change the Fablehaven thumbnail 🤔
Brandon Mull Rithmatist 2?
I think i hqve to go try alcatraz
I’m gonna say it, I enjoyed alloy of law more than I enjoyed the entire original mistborn trilogy
Ngl sometimes I also have the same feeling,but then I go back and read mistborn and just can't decide
honestly agree
I miss the cat energy that Dan brings, the I like you buuuut yeah sure I like you ya know
Where's Dan?!
Scholastic with them deep pockets.