Thuraya satphone systems are DEAD in Australia - status, background and advice
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
- On May 2nd Thuraya declared that its THURAYA-2 satellite would not be brought back to service and invoked force majeure with its Australia reseller, Pivotel. This marks the end of Thuraya services in Australia. This video explores the events and offers some advice.
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Pivotel links:
www.pivotel.com.au/thuraya-network-closure
www.pivotel.com.au/knowledge-base/faqs/thuraya-network-closure-faqs.html
Pivotel have updated their FAQ sometime on the evening of 4th May, Melbourne time, after publication of this video, to state the T3 satellite had a life till 2031:
"The operating status of the Thuraya 3 (T3) Satellite was reviewed in 2020 by the satellite manufacturer Boeing, on behalf of Thuraya, to determine its expected operational life. The review included analysis of the satellite’s subsystems and orbital parameters and Boeing concluded that T3 would continue to operate as designed until 2031. Thuraya’s satellite refresh planning intended to replace Thuraya 3 in advance of 2031. Based on this review neither Pivotel nor Thuraya could have reasonably anticipated the Force Majeure event that has occurred."
Note that the original life of T3, Boeing 702, was 15 years so it failed just after its original life. This calls into question the validity of the engineering decision to extend the T3's life.
And this statement from Pivotel ignores the fact that Force Majeure typically requires the event to be EXTERNAL to the parties involved. Also, failure of a satellite is not in my view an unforeseeable event. Satellites can and do fail, so failure is very much a possibility. I cannot see why they call this force majeure, but I am not a lawyer and not familiar with their contract.
I did contact Pivotel before the closure of service was announced but they did not get back to me. If I get an update I will pass information on, but wanted to get the word out as a priority. I'm sure there is more to this story, and as Thuraya has been silent, it is hard to piece together what has happened.
As someone who works with these kinds of systems, it can be seocnds between systems changing. Id say it was due to damage by the recent solar weather/ emissions. The Satellite could have been in reasonable condition upon initial assessment, then on final engineering sign off, they could have re assessed and gone nope its end of life.
They could also be planning to use the aus sat as a backup for their african sat, but it depends on vehicle fuel etc etc.
Thanks for the thorough explanation Robert. I was going to buy a Thuraya handset later this year. I love your work !
As a very casual user of Thuraya, I couldn’t justify the changeover to Iridium knowing the $2k+ handset would likely be obsolete in a few years with Starlink handsets not far out so went the new low profile Gen 3 starlink for remote area comms to compliment my PLB for emergencies. I’ve never needed my Thuraya in anger so being able to not pay month to month for starlink means I will likely save money over the long term until the family start demanding I set it up at our remote camp sites…
Good points!
Hmmm - I seem to have a very expensive brick now...
Sadly yes
"Unexpected payload anomaly" sounds like a technical term for trailer sway
A key point is the current Thuraya 2 (soon to be replaced by the newer Thuraya 4) services the key markets of Africa, Europe and the Middle East)....the vast majority of their revenue comes from these areas......so the dead Thuraya 3 is probably of little consequence to Yahsat (the owners of Thuraya). There is mention of the Thuraya 5 being built (by Airbus Industries) to eventually replace the dead Thuraya 3 but if that ever happens then it is probably 5 years away....what a mess. Maybe the Thuraya 3 got hit by a piece of space debris !
Exactly if its been classified that way it could have been anything.
Thuraya has always been a mug’s game as subscribers have been relying on a _sole_ satellite which was ageing. Thuraya subscribers knew the risks from the outset.
Thanks Robert!
Thank you for this fine piece of detective work. Looks like its time to dust off the ham radio again (HF when all else fails).
More satellites is better satellites. Quantity has a quality all it's own.
Thuraya did the sums and thought it wasn't worth the outlay to replace it because of the alternate satellite systems coming on line soon.
They figure none of their customers are in the intersection of (a) understanding this is not Force Majeure, and (b) have both the will and the means to sue.
Smart call. Anyone who cares will go to Starlink. Anyone with a large commercial contract will likely be privately compensated.
100% correct. as apart from consumer law, if you look up Force Majeure, it states as follows. Force Majeure is not implied as a matter of law in this country ? That's a pretty good start
We were being pushed HARD into Thuraya - and we told them to bugger off. Lucky we did - because we have over 40 starlink-connected bases in Australia. We have HF radio backups for telemetry and emergencies.
Who pushed you?
This will affect Africa. As the customers will see what happened and how quick it happened. So new entrants will opt for another sat carrier. Those who are up for renewal should decide to drop thuraya and move to a more reliable carrier. Nothing like ruining your brand name and subsequently your business when it is driven by reliability reputation.
The problem with Starlink is... We don't have it in ZA and i don't think it is coming soon with the political company operating requirements.
Just my thoughts.
Regards from South Africa.
Agreed, it'll affect Africa from that point of view. It's a signal that Thuraya does not care. I agree it's time to exit.
Australians are use to it, They've grown use to Telstra's constant lies over the decades
Ummmmm… Thuraya is *not* Telstra. Thuraya is based in Abu Dhabi, UAE. 🇦🇪
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Miss understanding, Telstra comment is example. Maybe I've misunderstood small things again.. I dunno..
@@FallingFlying. Could be worse. A good many of _former_ Thuraya subscribers commenting on this video are planing to initiate a “class action lawsuit” against the UAE satellite comms company. This suggestion is truly beyond idiotic. When I relayed this to my friend in Dubai she could not stop laughing. 🤣
Yes contacted Thuraya in Dubai and was told in basically a brief one line message, wait for it. If you need any assistance CONTACT YOUR SERVICE PROVIDER. To me that means they have basically washed their hands of it. Personally if no compensation is offered I'd reckon a class action should be on the cards. I've made four calls with mine and with the protective cover still in place it faces the bin RUBBISH indeed it is.
Will be interested to see the fine print on the contract Australian users would have accepted.
@@L2SFBC Yes but no matter what conditions are in the contract by any company, they can never over ride Australian Consumer Laws. It's like many places displaying No Cash Refund, they cannot by law enforce it. I must add here I do not hold Pivotel accountable in any way as I feel they are but the meat in the sandwich. The buck stops with Thuraya. .
Agreed!
Initiating a class action lawsuit in Abu Dhabi, UAE, the home of Thuraya? Good luck with that. 🇦🇪
There’s a lot of unqualified bush lawyers ripping into @Robert Pepper here.
Heads up - Consumer Law is impotent outside Australia’s borders so forget any notion of getting anything out of Thuraya. All you’ll manage to do is destroy Pivotel meaning you have no compensation AND no Pivotel. Heads Thuraya wins, tails you lose.
It’s the exact same situation as those with 3G mobile handsets and likely sometime, Holden Commodores.
For the record, I’m also the proud owner of a fine price of Thuruta eWaste. I plan on waiting until Pivotel come up with a plan rather than getting a premature attack of the vapours.
The 3G shutdown is an entirely different consideration. Essentially, consumers have to accept that the hardware will eventually become unserviceable and obsolete when the network the hardware supports is inevitably shutdown. Consumers had *5 years* of advance notice in 2019 of the looming 3G shutdown from the mobile carriers, which enabled consumers to formulate and effect 4G/5G upgrade plans in a timely manner. Technology and society will always moves on.
Holden Commodore in 2024? This is truly beyond daft.
But the law does state The Australian Consumer Law applies to anyone conducting business within Australia - this includes overseas businesses.8 Feb 2024. But once again it is not Pivotel at fault in anyway here? I think they just have the unenviable job of trying to sort the mess out. On the bright side I have just been informed not to junk my phone as it can still be used fine in South Africa & Europe.................... you beauty.
@@petershay2247 ‘Australian consumer law’ in UAE? My God, this is the stuff of pure fantasy. There are no legal repercussions for Thuraya as nothing from the Australian legal system can be applied to the UAE satellite comms company. The hapless former Australian Thuraya users will just have to suck it up.
As for the Australian agent Pivotel, all that can be expected are only refunds for any monies paid in advance for access fees. The users will have to write off the handset hardware losses.
Thuraya users knew from the outset that there was only a _single_ old satellite servicing the entire Asia and Australian regions, and that Thuraya is a foreign company based in the UAE. The user always had to accept these fundamental risks. Thuraya is just not Telstra.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Yep know a little about UAE as worked there for 3 years with British Aerospace. But this might pull them up ? The local agent of a foreign company is answerable for any obligations that must be satisfied by the company and as such, may be legally liable for any infractions and/or penalties incurred by the company.. But once again don't believe Pivotel should have to bare the brunt as nor should the customers. 🤔 I've already wiped the money spent but doesn't ease the sting in anyway but?
@@petershay2247 Wow! You worked in UAE. So what? Really. Any Australian solicitor would instantly attest Thuraya of the UAE is under no legal threat whatsoever by Australian subscribers. All that the Australian consumer can do is demand from Pivotel a prompt refund for any monies paid in advance for satellite access, and all contracts will be voided. As for the handset hardware cost, the subscriber has to personally write this off as a total loss.
Thuraya subscribers always knew from the outset that the crappy satellite network totally relied on a _single_ ageing satellite to service the entire Asia and Australian regions. Thuraya users understood the risks and accept it as such. So, it is beyond idiotic for Thuraya users to claim inconvenience and hardship when the flimsiest house of cards inevitably came crashing down. Simply put, the sophisticated satellite comms subscriber did not use Thuraya at all.
Australians are not legally entitled to serviceable satellite comms coverage from foreign companies. Thuraya is most definitely not Telstra. This is a simple reality that self-absorbed boorish white Australian males need to accept.
Lucky i didn't buy one 3 months ago! :)
Me too, business decision, perhaps 🤔
its force majeure for Pivotel, Thuraya closed service in Australia for its own reasons and by its own decision. So Pivotel has no power or technical ways to overturn it, avoid it, substitute it or so.
Like transport provider cancels its scheduled buses when bridge (owned and operated by its owner, bus operator only pays for this service) collapsed or closed for long repair, thus breaks its contract to end customers bus passengers, who bought season ticket and even moved home on the other side of river relying on this bus service.
I don't agree - with a single satellite it is entirely possible it may fail irrevocably so very much foreseeable for both parties. Also satellites are very complex and very difficult to reach, not like relying on a single van for example which has an engine failure.
@@L2SFBC yes foreseable, all things perish once. But you never can say "this satellite will die next year, so I can not rely on its serviceable in my contracts to end customers".
2 Cups and long string
Stitch to iridium or Inmarsat
Thuraya, is the mobile satellite services subsidiary of the UAE-based Al Yah Satellite Communication company.
Do you actually have anything official from Thuraya or the parent company which categorically states that the service will never come back?
No only Piovtel. Thuraya are silent.
Pivotel have stated service is gone and won't be coming back. Thuraya had nothing about the outage on their public sites, and last I looked, just before recording, still nothing.
Here is my reply from Thuraya head office Dubai QUOTE as below
Thanks for the writing.
We apologize for any inconvenience caused; note that our team is still working on the issue and in case if you need any assistance, you may please contact your respective Service Provider, thanks
@@petershay2247 Thanks Peter, I got the same reply “Thuraya are trying to recover the system, so it is a bit premature to call it dead”. It took a couple of guys to reach out to Thuraya to get this information. Sorry Robert, but IMO you need to improve upon you “journalism” as you seem to rely on other people opinion rather than you yourself doing appropriate fact checking. And I won’t mention all the other inaccuracies in this UA-cam clip.
The service is gone, that's a fact, and had been out for some time before the force majeure, so I'd call it 'dead', as in Pivotel's words, "Thuraya Network Closure". Pivotel, who I called, are working to transfer people over to other services and wouldn't do that if it wasn't going to be major. I know Thuraya is simply referring everyone to the local providers, and not providing any information themselves as you found. Will Thuraya ever come back? I don't know, but even if it did, most customers will have left, and my guess is that there is sufficient reputational damage to not bother and shortly the LEO phonesat systems will overtake them anyway. Pivotel also provided additional information after publication about T3 service life. I have updated my blog post but can't edit a video, although I shall release a new one if there is more information from either Thuraya or Pivotel.
Pivotel says that the updated expected life of the satellite from Boeing was 2031, so they planned a replacement in 5-7 years not now and basically can’t get another up anytime soon. Thuraya 4 is to replace Thuraya 2 needs to be replaced and is a more important market. Note you say Thuraya 2 insurance lapsed in December 2023, needs replacing but Thuraya 3 actually had a new eta of 2031. So either that was wrong or they suffered some sort of collision
Don't know...I did call Piovtel but they did not return my call. Either way single point of failure.
I did have a pamphlet for another service which you can subscribe to, where you are provided with a receiver- transmitter device that works with any mobile phone to use it as a sat phone, from memory it seemed like a reasonable cost, more cost effective than regular sat phones.
I forget the name of it, I don't know how good it is & I guess it is possible it utilized the Thuraya network, I dunno.
Maybe the Iridium Go? Different network if so. My remote-comms video covers that.
Zoleo and Spot are selling out fast as a result.
Contacted Thuraya direct to clarify the situation, it is clear they do not give a shit about you the customer and the loss of your equipment maybe a class action may have to be thought about.
All they're saying is "contact local" - did you get anything different?
Initiating a class action lawsuit in Abu Dhabi, UAE, the home of Thuraya? Good luck with that. 🇦🇪
I wonder if it was a cyber security incident. That's a third party event but just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it is unforeseen.
I'd argue (and agree?) a cyber attack is a foreseeable event. But, not a lawyer. I'm not sure why anyone would attack that satellite, but it's out.
I purchased my Thuraya headset because of the review & recommendation of Stephan Fischer ALLOFFROAD and only used it once…… what now?
Contact Pivotel as per the links in the pinned comment. Stephan is in the same boat, he has a video on this too.
Yes, I know Stephan is somewhat in the same boat but not quite - I paid RRP and Stephan didn’t which is disclosed in his video. Pivatel knew about this and the $900 brick sitting in front of me was sold knowing it would fail this year or the next because no replacement satellite was launched.
Since I published the video, Pivotel have updated their FAQ to say the service life was re-evaluated to be 2031 - that was not on their website when I looked just before publication. And just because the service life was passed doesn't mean to say it'd instantly fail.
Your comment is a little naive because these satellites are constantly monitored - it would be interesting to know what were the reasons for not launching a replacement- the insurance issue is telling
T3 was reviewed at life extended to 2031. Hence less need to launch a replacement. Regardless relying on a single satellite is up to the end user and a known risk.
Glad i sold mine and got an inreach
Good move!
Yes I feel this will also be my best solution / result for dollars spent. For my use as much as it's needed, I cannot justify a couple of K for an Iridium plus the monthly fifty to sixty dollar subscription.
Latest from Pivotel is my phone may look great from the outside but is 9 year old technology? Funny given it's the same model and firmware as current Thuraya Lite? Talk about being baffled with bull.... 😡Also from Pivotel and I quote . Thuraya have made their intent clear that they intend to restore services within 12 months. But have apparently cancelled Pivotels contract so won't be with them 🤔
After this, I can't see anyone buying Thuraya again. Trust is destroyed.
Maybe you can't rely on SL, but it's better than nothing. Day to day comms over SL, and a PLB style device for emergencies. I don't think it will ne too long before SL sees an opportunity here, but I could be wrong.
Mobile phones as satphones - it's coming!
How effective would HF HAM be, just out of interest.
Covered in the video
Just get a mobile starlink system. If your dish can see the sky, itl work. Even in pretty heavy rain and cloud theres enough sats up there now that its awesome. My partner and I work remotely all over the place, both of our works bought a starlink mobile dishy setup. I eatch netflix in the middle of fking nowhere and its cheaper than any sat mobile plan.
Starlink is not ideal as an emergency comms system as it is bulky, uses a lot of power, and requires multiple devices. Carry a PLB instead.
The top info section mentions Thuraya 2....I think it should mean Thuraya 3
Good solution!
That's terrible. I just bought a phone yesterday. 😡
Oh no!
Take it straight back.
Not fit for purpose.
@@thosoz3431 100% spot on Australian Consumer Law
Let’s get a class action going
Initiating a class action lawsuit in Abu Dhabi, UAE, the home of Thuraya? Good luck with that. 🇦🇪
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Yeah and even better luck at getting back home if you should go there to action it? Hmmmmmm
@@petershay2247 Yeah, while he is at it, the gormless and overweight Australian Thuraya user can visit Saudi Arabia and sue Aramco for overpriced petrol as well. 🇸🇦
It’s like our internet we get the shit service .
Interesting. Probably got hit by space trash.