An Oddball Carter/Edelbrock Carburetor Problem ( AFB AVS) With An Easy Fix
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- After nine months of hibernation, our 1967 440 Charger is up and running again, but her revival came with a couple of small bugs in the fuel system that can affect any Carter or Edelbrock Carburetor..
Here's what we found and how we fixed it, along with a refresher course on the idle and low speed circuits common to all Edelbrock and Carter BBS, BBD, AFB and AVS carbs.
#automobile #diy #classiccars
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Every time I see Torque-thrust wheels on a classic muscle or pony car, it makes me smile.
Exactly what I thought while I was watching Tony. The look I remember so well was Torq-Thrusts on the front and chrome wheels on the rear.
They look good on everything.
Same ...I had them on my 67 Chevelle
I had the chrome Cragar SS on my '65 Mustang fastback. Loved the looks of both wheels!
They are just so so sooooooo perfect. 💯
The Charger looks sooo good! 👍 The Belvedere looks like a 60s Circle Tracker.
It sure does, they did a great job on that DS quater
Thanks for the tip. A Big yes on the retro Nascar look
My grandmother worked in quality control at Carter Carburetors and she used to talk with Henry Ford on the phone. She said the other car makers would report one bad carb for credit, but Henry Ford would send back the whole case (or batch) of carbs due to one bad one.
Probably smart as problems within a production run are common.
Ford was still sending back the entire lot of parts when they had a problem in the 90s. We were supplying Ford with 4.0" piston rings for the 5.0/302 when I worked for Perfect Circle, and one day the individual who was packing the rings to ship got one of the 4.030" packs of rings in with the 4.000" packs. We would make the rings then hang them on 2' long pieces of pipe for all the following operations. She put some 4.030s in, about 2 feet worth and it shut down Ford's entire line, engines and cars. They were decidedly unhappy.
They sent back ALL the Perfect Circle rings they had in inventory. We got a large box where they pulled all the rings from the machines that install them on pistons, where they just tossed them in. It was a huge mess.
Because of her one goof we lost all the Ford business, both OE and aftermarket. They went to Sealed Power, and then Dana Corp, the owner of Perfect Circle, bought Sealed Power and Ford ended up dropping them too. That was in 1997 or 98, I left in 98, the plant was packed up six months later and sent to Mexico where they could pay them $2 a day instead of paying us $11 an hour. The scrap rate was around 90%, but they saved so much on labor they didn't care. No health coverage, OSHA, or any other regulations. I do not envy the Mexican employees...
When I started working there in 1993 the temps inside the plant would get to 130F in summer, the highest we saw was 137. One day I left the plant and walked out into 105F weather and it felt like I needed to bring a jacket to work. I brought that up when the people who worked in the air conditioned offices and never came to the floor between March and November said "Its useless to to pull air from outside the plant, because if its 90F outside it will be 90F inside." Well a 35 degree temperature drop from inside to outside when its over 100 outside is a problem.
People who worked there would call Osha and they would show up in December or January when it was only 80F to 90F inside because outside it was -10F to 20F. Then in 1995 Osha came in July, the guy walked in took one reading 3 feet inside the door and it said it was over 125F in there. Osha then forced them to install huge fans to bring air in and overpressure the plant so the chrome plate bath scrubbers would work.
I seriously doubt Mexico has better conditions for the workers making their piston rings, but who knows, maybe they can afford to air condition the entire plant since they barely pay them.
Charger looks great. Absolutely do the short track look. Petty would be proud of you.
“You’re mommy raised a real champion.” 😂
That was slick. I'm going to have to use that at work.
Thats what Vladimir Putin heard as child 20 Times a Day...
Happy Sunday 😁 fellow gear heads 🔧
I was never too keen on that style Charger but that's sharp UT.
Do it Tony. 2 door conversion NASCAR style for the win.
The Charger looks great Tony. Sweet Machine
You're right about those Edelbrocks being easy to work on. I had to tear down the one that's on my AMX three years ago when it flooded - and I'd never torn down a carb before in my life! One of the floats was full of gasoline. Replaced the floats and needle valves, put it back together, adjusted the fast idle cam screw for the hand choke and that was it. While it was apart, I soaked the individual parts in a 50-50 solution of water and Pine Sol. Cleaned up nicely. Nothing was gummed up, just a lot of dried crud in the float bowls. The throttle plates moved freely.
quality on all parts in last 5 years is awfull along with newer problems that never use to see or happen for sure Tony! I do carbs. for people and in the last 6 months I have had 2 newer made A.V.S. Edelbrocks that the front Primary booster like what you was mentioning had 1 hairline crack where the booster starts to extend out from the mounting screws that was causing rough idling/leakage after cutting off engine and the other carb. around the same area was a bad casting pore/like rotten alum. doing and acting the same way it was just a few months old......crazy! I guess cheap material and no quality control no more....use to never see problems like that on newer carbs.Rather have a older carb and put a kit in it as take the chance on buying a new one nowandays no matter the brand! Love your videos man!
I wondered the same whether newer gas filters have become pieces of junk like to many other auto parts.
These Edelbrock carburetors are die casted which I used to do as a job for many years and it sounds like the casting you got was a cold shot start up casting that should have been tossed & counted as scrap . Until the dies get good & hot you will see porosity sink holes & swirls and non fill in areas of the castings as well as dark spots which are caused from the dies being sprayed with the spray guns used especially if you don't use the air from the spray gun to blow the excess die slick off which helps release the casting from the dies . Once the dies come up to running temperature the operator should be looking for these defects and they should go away once the dies are at running temp even though many of the die cast dies are water cooled . Someone like me who was considered a master die caster I could set up & run every die cast machine in the shop with the job that needed to run & make good quality parts that passed inspection & quality control standards . Rookies on the other hand that are just starting out to become a die caster has to learn how to spray the dies where & when as well as blowing the dies off & being able to see & know where the dies needs to be sprayed more or less in certain areas as well as looking for defects but that takes time to learn this . If you don't spray the dies enough then you will get a stuck casting that can be on the hot side of the die or on the ejector side & when that happens we used bees wax to help release the stuck casting as well as a torch to help heat the casting up more so it expands & can release from the die . Some times we could get the stuck casting off by using brass chisels and bees wax and on some dies we can close the dies up if it's a die that doesn't have packer pin sliding cores and the casting will pull off once the die is opened manually and the ejector pin button is pushed to push the stuck casting off . Some times the casting that gets stuck can cause core pin failure or bent ejector pins and some times the dies have to be pulled & sent to the die repair room where they take the dies apart & fix any damage & do a cleaning on the dies to remove any buildup on the dies that causes imperfections in the castings . With most of our stuff being made in China now the quality standards has dropped especially if the shop isn't a ISO 9000 certified shop that has to keep the parts at a high standard of quality & the parts made on time & if the quality drops the people we make the parts for can fine the die casting shop or pull the contract away and drop that shop and use a different shop if the quality doesn't stay within the specs of ISO 9000 specs . I've been retired now for some years but I'm sure that there's probably a ISO 9002 by now or higher but I highly doubt that the Chinese have to abide by these ISO 9000 standards so the quality of the castings has dropped & they somehow let that cold shot get through & packaged up and sent to the buyer that sold the carburetor to you and didn't know it was a defect .
Edelbrock Made by Comp in China
First generation chargers don't get the love they deserve, ultra cool. Not sure why I find your video's compulsive viewing , maybe because i have been playing around with this stuff since I was 13. I carry a tool kit with me when i drive my old cars that has been put together over 50 years and when I need a bit of wire to clean out a jet ,etc I use a strand of cable from a push bike cable because when you unwind it the twist in the cable means it cleans anything big or small . love your work.
The filter issue is usually caused by the alcohol in the gasoline chemically attacking the plastic (and rubber) in the fuel system, especially when they sit.
The plastic filter housing 'shrinks' from sitting with alcohol in it.
By sitting, the alcohol has time to attack the plastic and the rubber.
That & they are made cheaper now because I just replaced my old fuel filter on my 400 SBC and I can see the filter expanding & shrinking from the fuel pressure with the new mechanical fuel pump . Might have to switch to a glass filter if they are even any good anymore because I like to be able to see if there's any crud coming from the gas tank or fuel lines that can clogg the carburetor up and if the glass fuel filters are junk I guess it's back to the metal fuel injection fuel filters that won't crack or fail like these new plastic see through filters are doing which is bad because it could potentially cause a engine bay fire .
I had a brand new Edelbrock AFB that would never keep a tune. Had to constantly adjust it every couple of months. Finally decided to rebuild it. Pulled the top off and found they never tightened the boosters. The screw were just sitting in the booster body. Screw holes didn’t even have threads cut.
Today comp crap Made in China
Nice! Long time Edelbrock user here, and I have not ran into that!
You are such a character Tony. I love listening to you explain stuff!
The wheels are killer. Love the stock car look on those old B bodies
The Carter/Edelbrock AFB/AVS are some of the most reliable and trouble free 4 barrels ever. Less complex than even some 2 barrels, they also have no power valves to blow as with Holley carbs and no gaskets below fuel level.
I always use them whenever converting from 2 to 4 barrel carburetion
Wheels look great
While sometimes some critisicm is good ( I even spelled it wrong ) your channel is very interesting and most of us are very grateful for you and your content, so we see it as something fantastic.
There are always going to be negative people, please pay no attention to that. You sir are great youtuber.
Not s bad idea to have a gallon can of carb bath on hand(naptha)...the "new fuel" will start to oxidize quickly if not treated- Tonys mopar shop warms the Heart......
Yes to the old school short track car!
Hey uncle tony . I made a stupid comment a while back, Sorry for that I was in a bad place. I have been watching you for a long time. Youre great. Keep it going. !!!!!!!!
If I had a dollar for every stupid comment I've made....
No worries my brother, and thank you.
G'day uncle Tony, you are such a champion to us old skool types. Love your videos. So much old school tech and fixes for those weird symptoms. Even for an Aussie 60 Tbird owner.
Cheers mate!👍🇦🇺
i use a all plastic filter just like that about 3 years old never had a problem the hose went bad this time which was about the same age just put 200 miles on my 440 with a thermoqaud i picked up for 20 bucks did nothing but air adjustments went to elmers salvage yard walk yesterday 87 deg the old 440 did not miss a beat THANKS FOR THE CHOKE PULL OFF TIP could not figure my other thermoqauds dead spot out watched a ton of videos no one ever talked about that
"Chick-cadas!" LOL, Uncle Tony, ya' got me laughing. 'Si-Ka-Duh'
NO it's Chick-cadas from now on, Uncle Tony said so!! 🤣😂🤣😂 I'm gonna say it cool guy style now!!!! 🤣😂🤣😂
😂😂😂😂😂 I was posting the same. Guess they don't see them in NY 😂
Italian pronunciation LOL
Circle track wheels look good on everything
My Road Runner has the exact same symptoms. Tomorrow I'm pulling the top off ye ol Edelbrock.
Great information I intimidated with carbs I’m mechanical inclined but not good with carbs I would like more information on carbs I’ve been been a Mopar guy from late 70’s you have a great channel good information Thanks
Good to see the paint job is still nice on the charger.
The Nascar look suits the Belvedere perfectly! Especially since the wheel openings have already been trimmed!👍
The issue I get with my Edelbrock is the ball under the squirter being stuck so no squirt and a bad stumble when I accelerate. A little carb cleaner frees it up. I have never had the issue in the video but now I know if I run into it.
I ended up buying an ultrasonic parts cleaner, and that works great in those small carb passages.
As an apprentice during the 80's my second stint of collage my teacher was in love with the carter carb. Wait I should say here in Canada we have to get government issued red seal stamped degree like doctors, lawyers get to work legally and do safeties or AC work licenses and part of getting one is 3.. 2 months terms of college schooling. Every Chevy head hated him arguing dally why the holly was better. We dynoed the same motor he let us tune and adjust any way we wanted, spark plug gap timming and every time he could pull more out of the Carter in different rev ranges. So if you want a carb you can tune for any application, track to track easy for day or night changes you want a carter. Even on a flow bench a smaller Carter can pull more air than a holly with better response for daily driving or circuit track. Like on motorcycles the only carb I will use is a Mikuni they just work easy to tune. Anything that dump fuel for drag racing will work how you get it to work can be a nightmare, Carter you pull the top and adjust. Any carb that has needles is 10x better than an orifice only carb for overall performance.
The Bart wheels look good on the test mule, the Charger looks even better. Have fun!
Nice information Tony, I rarely have problems with Carters and those screws would have been a new one for me. Those passages clog, yes, but not often for me and I don’t recall those screws coming loose on me before, way to let us know about that one. I had a Thermoquad that was difficult to tune in the past, I ended up rejetting it and finally found the choke had a mind of its own and grabbed one off a wreck at the pull and pay scrap yard. If that had not fixed it I was ready to overhand fastball it in to the scrap metal bin. I normally have a lot of patience with carbs but that one had me angry instead of interest in figuring it out. Something about pulling and putting a carb back on fifty times, I just was not feeling it anymore. It was the toughest one I ever messed with. It might be running perfect for a half hour or so then stumbling again later. That one also felt the greatest to actually figure out because I was fried from dozens of attempts at fixing or tuning the little monster. On another note, people get snooty about brands of carburetors. All the utube channels swear by Holleys, are they on the take and being sponsored? I don’t know, yes they are good but all the others are not bad in the same sentence. My opinion only, they are great carbs for raw performance. However, if you like activity with things getting clogged and billions of seals taking turns leaking one by one, those are the carbs to play with. Monkey turns a screw on a Holly, monkey creates a fuel leak. Carters will run for literally decades provided good clean fuel is picked up. I have one on my Buick, been around twenty years and it runs like the day it was new. Never messed with it much, when it came down from 6000 feet altitude in Colorado I did retune it then. It was just cleaned with a spray can of carb cleaner a few times over the years. They are great carbs for setting and forgetting. Might be the last carb you ever put on your machine after a nice fine tune is put on it. I like Rochester Quadrajets, I guess I like carburetors, I like them all. No need in my life to be snooty of any brand of carb. History will point out every brand had performance models. Myself having lived the hot rod life style since I was four years old, I have seen a whole lot of good performance carbs of all kinds on all kinds of cool cars. Thanks to guys like you we can keep learning those bug fixes incase we run in to the same situation down the road. No one person knows everything and carbs can be tricky.
The NASCAR idea is a cool one!
About those screws: good to know! Funny part is I've probably unintentionally fixed that one just by taking those screws out and running them back in when chasing down a similar bug a few times over the years...Just by virtue of taking the boosters out to check those passages, you fix the problem when you put it back together.
Thanks for the tip. I have dual Carter carbs on a a 1962 Century boat with a Dearborn 289 interceptor. That sits for prolonged periods and that will probably suffer from this at some point. I also just watched the video on points vs electronic, my restoration guy just put the Pertronix kit in. So I’ll have to keep an eye on that also
Another tidbit from our mopar guru. Thanks Tony.
I like those filters , because I can see the crud level . The internet complainers are driving injected cars that still have the factory installed filter .
I want that Charger! That's my favorite body style Charger
BTW, yes! Make it a short track racer, and also BTW, your UA-cam stories are awesome.
Go for the NASCAR look. I drive a just completed 1986 Lincoln MK VII (fancy t-bird) done up like Winston Cup car. 700 miles so far, all positive reaction. Now known as "the racecar" here in town. 15 x 8, 275 15, decals and big numbers. Love it, now daily driver.
I've seen that leak before but not with a crimped seam. I've seen those plastic filters with a heat seam leak. Usually no problems though. Many times a old dirty filter just needs a little reverse flush and your good to go.
I’m definitely a fan of the Short track 2 door conversion idea
My cousin had the two door high performance Belvedere from that year and it was beautiful. He won a lot of outlaw drag races with it. I always admired it. Wish I had one.
I learned the hard way don't use aftermarket carbs if you can find something more original. Back in the 80's I bought a rusted out 72 Dodge Demon 340 automatic. Looked crappy but ran somewhat ok for 225 bucks. Carb started hesitating badly and flooding out where it wouldn't start for a few days. I had a few reputable carb guys go through it but always got worse. Went to a shop that did some oddball stuff for the gas station I worked at and on his shelf in store was a brand new thermoquad. It was shrink wrapped and marked 100 bucks. That was a lot of money back then for me me but I told him to put it aside for me. After purchasing it and installing with adjustments, it was like driving a new car from the factory. It was a gas guzzler but worth every penny. I've never owned a car since that could shred tires like that!
Like the wheels on the Belvedere. Four doors are awesome, leave that part alone and have fun with it! Next time you think about a four door to two door conversion, consider putting obnoxiously colored lexan windows in Slaghammer instead.
I love the NASCAR look Tony. Those style wheels look great on everything.
That thing looks so great man it's a four door bad ass!! Love the way the wheels sit and it really is awesome looking!!
The fuel filter has a metal end cap crimped to a plastic body so you've got two different materials, both with different coefficients of expansion. Cyclic expansion and contraction of plastic and metal led to the leak at the point where the two dissimilar materials join together. Probably a similar situation with the Carter carb problem. Lacquer thinner works well to clean those internal parts after reaming the ports.
probably has a rubber ring in there to seal between the plastic and steel. it certainly went away from any alcohol content.
The car is gorgeous 🤩
I am digging the wheels. They give me a yardon a hard long! They fit it in style!
Carb screw issues.... put a dot of finger nail polish on each screw. Works from weedeaters to earthmovers. Basically poor man's loctite. 40+years and no failures...yet. Gas, diesel, propane, alky... have not tried on nitro.
Mikel
Lol.. thermoquads ARE the exception. In so many ways. Good vid UT.
Send me your Thermoquads. I love them. Best carb Carter ever made.
Yes vote for the wheels and old school NASCAR look!
thats why I have always checked the screws on every carb i have ever installed. almost always a loose screw some where. once had a tiny piece of plstic in the bowl of a holly. got stuck in the idle jet. 4 cyl idle. took days to figure it out. its all in the details. definitely the nascar Belvidere.
Having been a circle track racer, I'm all in on the circle track look.
I just recently recently purchased an ultrasonic cleaner, works great to revive all those crud filled passages in the carburetors!
I had one of those on a 318 68' coronett 440 . I could watch the fuel boil in that filter.
WHEELS AND TIRES ARE ACE, LOVE THE BELVE WOOOOOOW
My personal experience, and this was 02 or 03. I had one of those plastic fuel filters split on me, next to a gas pump, dumping gasoline on the distributor of my straight six 53 Chevy.
I'm wary of them.
Side note, I reacquired the 53 Chevy last night and I'll be doing a rebuild on this new channel after not seeing it for 20 years.
Uncle Tony great informative video. You have answerd a problem I ran into back in 75. A friends B5 blue satellite convertible had just got out of NY state hibernation parked in a non heated garage. The tank and lines had been winterized and a AFB on top of the 383. It was OEM and my friend (who played HS football) thought instead of a rebuild lets replace it with a new AVS or the other way around. Anyway the new carb had the didn't want to idle. I'm checking for vacuum leaks,plugs, wires,sticking distributor advanced etc.... no problem before the carb replacement so that's what it was. Thanks
THE BEST TO U ALWAYS. GREMLINS GOT INTO THE CARBURATORS.. ALL YOUR PROJECTS. R GREAT. CHARGER LOOKS GREAT
What an odd issue, and I love the 60s race car look!
Yes to the short tracker, a friend races a 63 Galaxie with a 427 in vintage dirt track racing, still has it’s original paint and lettering, to cool
That bugs quote sounds like a new T shirt to me!😊
Absolutely LOVE those wheels! Love the concept! Yes! Do it!
U.T.G., the belvedere looks great, the the circle track wheels!
Not just yes but Hell yes on the 60's NASCAR!
I guess I missed the painting of the Charger. It looks great. And the wheels look gooood
I like the idea of a 60’s nascar style, but yes, keep it 4 door. Those wheels make for a deadly combo on that car!
RWL tires nuttin else.. thats your NASCAR look... or maybe small center caps too. great show my fav.. by far... charger turned out great..
Awesome tip Tony! I love AFB's but I had never heard ir expsrienced this issue.
Hey Tony, I ran those Bart wheels on my dirt track stocker. Could not mount or change a tire by hand, they would bend like crazy. Always had to take them to a tire store and get them mounted or changed. Stay away from curbs!!!!
Hey tony the wheels look sick...and sooo does the charger, I'm so glad she got the love it was nice that she was a beater..tho now hhmmm...a beauty.
Those first generation Chargers out-classed everything else in everyone's showrooms. My all time favorite Mopar, though I was more of a GM guy back when I delivered the afternoon paper to Sox Sinclair service station when Ronnie was running a 409 Chevy and working at the station
When a car sits outside for long periods I've found when the temperature drops metal parts get moisture on them. When the temp drops and there is moisture that's when ice forms. Ice is likely what caused your fuel filter leak as well as the carb issue. Funny stuff! Thanks for sharing.
Man that Chargers looking good.
Those wheels are perfection. Another YES vote for the old school nascar/circle track look
Old school Nascar would be a great reminder of better times.
We used to hate any Carter 2 barrel. The butterfly was always sticking. Carb cleaner and rebuild kits only provided temporary fix. We usually replaced it with a Holly 2 barrel and it worked much better even though it was on the wrong bore intake. We never found a good fix for the butterfly problem.
Nice, I always wanted a late 70's Thunderbird to do the same.
Yes, NASCAR style build. A friend did that to a 60 something Fairlane years ago. It was way cool looking and handled so much better with the wide wheels and tires.
That would be a banger UTG
Maybe not so much NASCAR but an old timey test bed car like Motor Trend and others used to run at Bonneville. Go for it!
O'Reilly's has WIX 33032 and AC Delco GF61 filters in stock. Both are identical solid metal 5/16" in & out.
But Made in China, Look for NOS
@@Haffschlappe I always run the wix, it's fine. So where is the nos part number & where do I get one that's not all rusty? Do tell.
I like what you are thinking, the old school nascar look would be cool just dont go too far or it will never be finished :)
“Your momie raised a real champion!” The definitive response to tone deaf commenters! I’ll probably never need to work on another Carter or any carb, but nice to know why I blew out or poked out every passage I could find to get many carbs to work right.
Black wheels look KooL on the Plymouth, but I don't remember what was on it before. Thanks for sharing. - take care
I've always loved the look of black wagon wheel or steelies. Short track, dirt track style. Cheap, effective and I think they look good. I'm not into chrome wheels whatsoever.
Definitely digging the wheels go with your gut. Can’t wait to see how it turns out.
Tony, that is a nice Charger! Sure don't see many of the 67s' any more!
Hey Tony, I used to put petroleum jelly on hoses and put them in a zip lock baggie for a day or two . Softened them up and more plyable for a while. Worked on the weather seals for doors also. I don't know if it's common knowledge but maybe save someone a few bucks.
Waterless hand cleaner also good for weather seals. The stuff without the pumice.
Charger is looking really good!
Man that car looks awesome black and chrome 👌
I love the way it looks
I like the idea on the Belvedere, just have fun with it.
I like the idea of an old school NASCAR theme. It would ad some variety to the channel.
I still prefer the Edelbrock/Carter carburetors over Holleys. I just don't like how the Holleys always leaked from the float bowls on the hot intake manifold. I never had much problems with Edelbrock or Carters. The only problem I had with my Carter AVS 4640S on my '69 Dodge Charger R/T with the 440 factory A/C car was once I was driving for about two hours down the road and all of a sudden something popped inside the carb and it caused a massive vacuum leak which caused the engine to run extremely lean. I found the nearest NAPA and bought a carb rebuild kit and rebuilt the carb and blowing carb cleaner through every single passage on the carb. Nothing helped it. I figured the base of the carb warped or got a hairline crack in it somewhere. Never could figure it out. Replaced the factory remanufactured carb for a brand new polished aluminum Carter AVS carb and never had a problem since.