So, let me get this straight. It costs a bomb, it weighs almost 10kg, the wheel touches the bloody frame when you give it some welly and it's actually slower than a normal bike. Shut up and take my money!
@podfunk ...and you forgot to mention: it looks absolute horrible... and, btw, the Orbea Ordu is not one of the fastest bikes out there, so, when you compare it to a Cervelo or Felt or Canyon it looks even worse!
Nice to see frame design development that is Not held back by UCI specifications :-) Certainly needs increased frame-wheel clearance on final version to remove the frame-wheel contact interaction and resultant power loss and wear.
I can't wait to see a wind tunnel graph comparing the old P5, the new P5x, the ventum, and the diamondback in multiple yaw angles. All that on the same graph.
I think what they have successfully demonstrated is that the drag caused by a two triangle frame is less significant than the drag caused by the interaction between the rider and the bike and the drag caused by all the loose cables on their bikes. This interaction between rider and bike is where Cervelo concentrate being very up front that their bikes don't always win on aero as a bare bike. While I have no doubt that these non triangle bikes have some potential aero advantages it's not surprising that a very optimised conventional design beat this bike which given it is from a small outfit has probably had a fraction of the amount of aero development. The issue for them is that big manufacturers like Cervelo and Diamondback are already thinking along these lines.
How did you control the bike fit between the 2 bikes in the test? The rider accounts for majority of the air resistance, so any deviation in the fit could easily distort the bike-on-bike speed test.
That's a really good point. Except that it was slower with a person, which is all that matters. Given how finicky most people are with bike fit, I'd imagine that each had the best fit possible.
Jamie isn't well at the moment, but we've asked him for a response on this. It'll definitely be something he controls for, but we're not sure specifically how he does it.
While the wind tunnel says it's faster, I would still be much slower due to the vast amounts of shame I would feel as the crowd's laughter would simply beat me down mile after mile.
Honking is such a versatile term that it should never have drifted from favour. The way Contador rides, the way I smell post ride, the way that bike looks...
Interesting to see bike manufacturers starting to do some out of the box designs. The new Cervelo and Diamondback are two other good examples. Great review
Great review. Extremely informative and honest with the wheel rub. However it was hard to tell for sure in video but it looked like to me on your Orbea Ordu test bike it looked like you had assymetric chainrings (Rotor Q-rings). Besides the power measurement being a little different (not much I know) the way you pedal from one bike to the next is a major variable/factor that you need to account for. Hypothetically the Q-rings are meant to make power transfer more efficient eliminating dead spots so that could favour the Orbea. I'm very surprised the guys at Ventum after seeing your results didn't look at this to try to make an argument for why the Orbea could have won. I mean no offence to Orbea but for Ventum's sake if it can't beat an Ordu in a TT, it's got problems when it's goes up against the big boys like the P5. I'd be throwing every argument I could out there to try to make sense of these surprising results if I were Ventum.
Of all the aero drag variables, body position would a very high factor - that along with making sure the rider was in the exact pedaling position. Were all of these constant?
It looks like in the video that you were using oval chainrings on the Orbea but standard ultegra ones on the Ventum. Is this what you had in the test? If it is then that could have made the differance as oval chainrings possibly make you faster. And what about the position and the wheels, was that the same?
Terrific review thanks bike radar... It would be very interesting to compare this against the likes of the new Cervelo P5X, the Falco V (my fav) and the Diamondback
I could be wrong about this, but I'm thinking that even if it is a bit more aero than say the Orbea, that it is too much off-set by such a lot of extra weight. To get something faster than current TT aero bikes, I think you'd need to improve the aero aspect to the geometry while not giving up that much weight. So I believe the wind-tunnel test may show it to be more aero, however it's still slower due to so much extra weight.
Aero is a lot more important on gradients less than 6, much more so on flats. The added static weight in the frame will do you much better if it does a well enough job improving you cda. This is especially true on a 112 mile course where maintaining speed is much more important than spinning up to speed. The biggest thing holding you down on the bike is air-resistance, not gravity.
Random Weeb I know air resistance counts for more than gravity, however gravity still counts, and that bike is a lot of extra gravity. If it was the same weight as the Orbea, it probably would be quicker. But it is slower, and there has to be a reason. I think that is the main reason.
I don't have stats on me (neither a fan of Orbea or Ventum), but i don't think this particular frame model is much heavier than traditional tt frames. If we were talking bout the new Daimondback, absolutely, that thing probably weighs like 2.5kg. The Ventum, however, doesn't look like it weighs much. I've tried a short search but came up with no results. I'm sure we'll find out more as time goes on
Sorry, didn't finish the video, i though you bringing up orbea was a hypothetical. Given the findings, i don't think it comes down to weight, especially because the Ventum was much slower on the flat course than it was on messier course. The Orbea probably just put him in a better position. Whatever it is though, the Ventum looks even worse to me now than it did before :P I much prefer traditional TT bikes anyways
Is there any chance you could provide the relevant power files for aero analysis? That may help defer some of the criticisms around the impact of pacing on speed (even with same overall average power). Also data on how closely the positions were matched between bikes would be good.
I have a Ventum One and it's a fantastic ride. I did have to get new wheels, as my old Zipps rubbed the frame when turning, but not since. As a long-time Softride rider, when parts were no longer available tried a few others: Cervelo P3 and Dimond, and both were junk bikes with poor road vibration absorption. Once I got on the Ventum One, knew immediately had finally had an exceptionally comfortable bike. Comfort equals speed and definitely less upper body/core exertion. If I ever have to replace it, will get the newest Ventum One again!
the chainstays look like they add a huge amount of front surface area. it's known now non-karman airfoil like on the old Giant propel, is bad in real conditions.
Can you guys try to get your hands on the Ridley Noal Sl disc for review. It's on my shortlist and I would like to hear what you gents have to say about it.
Who needs down-tubes? Riders who prefer non-squirrely handling, apparently. Not actually any faster? What's the point of it then? More work needed guys!
i have canyon strive,when i lean bike on the wall and hit with litlle force my handlebar,i get ratlling metal sound,like rotor disk is loose,when i do same with my wifes bike there is no sound,is something wrong with my bike
OK, so we have more aero bike that is slower... but heavier (you always do micro accelerations all the time, though one kilo on flat surface should be negligible) and potentially less efficient due to flexing (can this be lab tested?), also drivetrains can be slightly different in terms of efficiency... and there's the obvious, already mentioned factor: rider's position/drag (and one should not forget that it's BIKE + RIDER aero what matters, not just bike itself). In any case, what can be tested on the spot is adding dead weight to Orbea and use the same drivetrain/wheels, or eventually check the position (measure, compare photos from the side...)
It affects the SRM with a magnet-tripped reed switch for cadence but not the Garmin Vector 2 pedals because they understand their angular velocity. Also, if we used the SRM it would make the Orbea on the non-round rings slower not faster because the real power would be lower than the measured power. Good spot and question though.
when its getting forced against the frame it might, since they use resin designed for higher temps it inherently causes it to be more brittle, so repeated hitting/rubbing against the frame could cause it to crack
the problem with bikes like these is that R&D starts years before the model is relased, even more so for smaller companies like ventum so by the time they release the bike bigger companies have released a bike which is probably better owing to them having a bigger budget to spend and technology moving so quickly. its a shame tbh but as is life i guess.
To be honest, I only allowed to autoplay to continue and watched this because the bike looks so weird to me. ;) Me = no triathlete, no road biker. But in a weird way I might have just learned a lot about stiffness of frame. Thanks for that!
Hellooo guysss!! i watch every episode of your channel and i am highly motivated to start moving on cycle I am a beginner and want to make cycling my life time sport can you help me suggest which bike should I go with as a beginner? I have few in my mind as they are availabe around my locality and in my bugdet Montra unplugged 1.1 montra trance pro firefox momentum 700c these three i have suggest after doing a long good research can you help me suggesting which bike should i go with as beginner?
I don't think your test is nearly as robust as you think it is. Namely there was no control, also no mention on whether the groupset and position was the same. Also, for all you know the test results could have been anomalies on both runs. You should be aiming for a large, uneven number of runs on each bike in different conditions, seven is a good starting point. That way you can better eliminate any anomalies and start seeing trends and consistency. Also it appears you haven't tested the bikes under race loads and race like distances. WHICH IS WHAT THEY"RE MEANT FOR. Not 10 mile distances. At least test them in the environments they're going to be used in. That's lots of food, water and reasonably long distances. I'd aim for 50km distance minimum. Under these conditions I suspect the Ventum to be faster, probably because of its integrated food and water storage + straw that eliminates the need to get out of the aero position.... valuable seconds saved.
Awesome looking piece of go fast equipment showing how R & D engineering and big bucks can turn in faster times. But at a ever growing high cost and this is killing cycling. Look if you got the money and you want to spend it do it. But remembering the cyclist first should be the most important part of this sport. I feel the biz is pricing many cyclist out and misleading thous new to the sport. Its become about spending big dollar on equipment and less about the rider.
So you pieced together the bike with the drop-outs out of alignment, scratched the bike, made the video, and then blamed the company for the wheel rub? And almost 3 years later you're still showing the same video and haven't owned up to your mechanic's mistake?.... *slow clap*
if you have any more spare parts just laying around taking up space i could take some clutter off your hands and come to think of it i need a few things.. haha
A 10 mile course with gradients & a 7 second difference then a 10 mile flat course with a 24 second difference means what? The difference is so small it surely must be w/i a margin of error for uncontrolled variables. As an example, BR didn't say how they controlled for body position & that's HUGE! They actually didn't even say the SAME rider was used between the bikes. It's an interesting data point but it has to be cast aside.
You guys should put some balancing weight on Orbea to eliminate the weight differences, then you can test the real benefits form the unique shape, I hope there will be some rematches.
I guess thing the good thing about owning one is that you don't have to look at yourself riding it.... Not a fan. I would say in three years it'll be dead....
"...with spare 808s that we had 'laying around'..." wish i had that problem
Vinnie G I feel you buddy
great, fair review. wish GCN did more reviews like this
Or you could just stay here and watch ours...
Or I can watch both! Would love to see some new aero road bike reviews as well
GCN don't review bikes though...
GCN has already mentioned time and time again, they are not a review channel unlike Bike Radar etc.
GCN don't review products... They'll only preview new tech if one of their sponsors pay them to, like Zipp or Orbea.
Fantastic video! I'd love to see more reviews on non-UCI legal bikes and how they compare to legal ones.
It's basically the old Lotus frame, modernised and I'm sure lighter...but nothing ground-breaking
exactly!
So, let me get this straight. It costs a bomb, it weighs almost 10kg, the wheel touches the bloody frame when you give it some welly and it's actually slower than a normal bike. Shut up and take my money!
Sounds awesome right? hahaha
At least it looks good!
Wait...
@podfunk ...and you forgot to mention: it looks absolute horrible... and, btw, the Orbea Ordu is not one of the fastest bikes out there, so, when you compare it to a Cervelo or Felt or Canyon it looks even worse!
In the description it says the bike doesn't have downtube and chainstays, however it does look to have chainstays. It doesn't have seatstays though.
Well spotted, thanks! We've fixed it now.
BikeRadar
No worries.
I think you got slower times due to the mis-matched bar tape on the cow horns. 😝 🚴💨
Nice to see frame design development that is Not held back by UCI specifications :-) Certainly needs increased frame-wheel clearance on final version to remove the frame-wheel contact interaction and resultant power loss and wear.
That was a very honest review with the correct testing protocol. Give us more of this.
I can't wait to see a wind tunnel graph comparing the old P5, the new P5x, the ventum, and the diamondback in multiple yaw angles. All that on the same graph.
add in the dimond marquise by Ruster
Love the looks of the diamondback
I think what they have successfully demonstrated is that the drag caused by a two triangle frame is less significant than the drag caused by the interaction between the rider and the bike and the drag caused by all the loose cables on their bikes. This interaction between rider and bike is where Cervelo concentrate being very up front that their bikes don't always win on aero as a bare bike. While I have no doubt that these non triangle bikes have some potential aero advantages it's not surprising that a very optimised conventional design beat this bike which given it is from a small outfit has probably had a fraction of the amount of aero development. The issue for them is that big manufacturers like Cervelo and Diamondback are already thinking along these lines.
he didnt discuss the fuel tank
ilikewasabe lol
ilikewasabe nice
indeed. Makes the bike "super aero", then puts a hideous protruding fill hole.
If anyone comes up with a bike that gives me painless liposuction and new knee joints I'm interested.
Wow, fantastic honest review.... Personally I think Ventum ditched the wrong tube. Top tube bye bye, down tube stay for maths....
Great. I'm always love to watch honest review
How did you control the bike fit between the 2 bikes in the test? The rider accounts for majority of the air resistance, so any deviation in the fit could easily distort the bike-on-bike speed test.
That's a really good point. Except that it was slower with a person, which is all that matters. Given how finicky most people are with bike fit, I'd imagine that each had the best fit possible.
Jamie isn't well at the moment, but we've asked him for a response on this. It'll definitely be something he controls for, but we're not sure specifically how he does it.
The position from the Orbea was measured and sent to Ventum, and they built this test bike to match. Good question.
same rider, same position on each bike
While the wind tunnel says it's faster, I would still be much slower due to the vast amounts of shame I would feel as the crowd's laughter would simply beat me down mile after mile.
thats what ppl said about time trial handlebars and now everyone uses them.
no, no it isnt
Pity that you are not old enough to handle peer pressure.
Honking is such a versatile term that it should never have drifted from favour. The way Contador rides, the way I smell post ride, the way that bike looks...
Quit honking on about it
Interesting to see bike manufacturers starting to do some out of the box designs. The new Cervelo and Diamondback are two other good examples. Great review
Rixter out of the box? You mean ugly bike lol
Timus both ;-)
Brilliant review video there BikeRadar and Jamie Wilkins. thank you! Keep em coming please
The Lotus Sport 110 is reborn!
Great review. Extremely informative and honest with the wheel rub. However it was hard to tell for sure in video but it looked like to me on your Orbea Ordu test bike it looked like you had assymetric chainrings (Rotor Q-rings). Besides the power measurement being a little different (not much I know) the way you pedal from one bike to the next is a major variable/factor that you need to account for. Hypothetically the Q-rings are meant to make power transfer more efficient eliminating dead spots so that could favour the Orbea. I'm very surprised the guys at Ventum after seeing your results didn't look at this to try to make an argument for why the Orbea could have won. I mean no offence to Orbea but for Ventum's sake if it can't beat an Ordu in a TT, it's got problems when it's goes up against the big boys like the P5. I'd be throwing every argument I could out there to try to make sense of these surprising results if I were Ventum.
I'd really like to see someone try to lock the frame to a bike rack
Of all the aero drag variables, body position would a very high factor - that along with making sure the rider was in the exact pedaling position. Were all of these constant?
Yep. The position from the Orbea was measured and sent to Ventum, and they built this test bike to match. Good question though.
Jamie Wilkins - Any way to control in saddle/out of saddle time differences?
+thechosendude The test runs were 100% in the saddle. The standing bits were just for the video footage.
Jamie Wilkins Thanks for replying!
-cheers
It looks like in the video that you were using oval chainrings on the Orbea but standard ultegra ones on the Ventum. Is this what you had in the test? If it is then that could have made the differance as oval chainrings possibly make you faster. And what about the position and the wheels, was that the same?
I think for really long TT this is good, when sprint power isn't causing tortion flexing.
Terrific review thanks bike radar... It would be very interesting to compare this against the likes of the new Cervelo P5X, the Falco V (my fav) and the Diamondback
Man, those hairy arms... -20% speed.
ArK Studios true asf💀😂😂😂
I could be wrong about this, but I'm thinking that even if it is a bit more aero than say the Orbea, that it is too much off-set by such a lot of extra weight. To get something faster than current TT aero bikes, I think you'd need to improve the aero aspect to the geometry while not giving up that much weight.
So I believe the wind-tunnel test may show it to be more aero, however it's still slower due to so much extra weight.
Aero is a lot more important on gradients less than 6, much more so on flats. The added static weight in the frame will do you much better if it does a well enough job improving you cda. This is especially true on a 112 mile course where maintaining speed is much more important than spinning up to speed. The biggest thing holding you down on the bike is air-resistance, not gravity.
Random Weeb
I know air resistance counts for more than gravity, however gravity still counts, and that bike is a lot of extra gravity. If it was the same weight as the Orbea, it probably would be quicker. But it is slower, and there has to be a reason. I think that is the main reason.
I don't have stats on me (neither a fan of Orbea or Ventum), but i don't think this particular frame model is much heavier than traditional tt frames. If we were talking bout the new Daimondback, absolutely, that thing probably weighs like 2.5kg. The Ventum, however, doesn't look like it weighs much. I've tried a short search but came up with no results. I'm sure we'll find out more as time goes on
Sorry, didn't finish the video, i though you bringing up orbea was a hypothetical. Given the findings, i don't think it comes down to weight, especially because the Ventum was much slower on the flat course than it was on messier course. The Orbea probably just put him in a better position. Whatever it is though, the Ventum looks even worse to me now than it did before :P I much prefer traditional TT bikes anyways
Random Weeb
Good points.
I'd love to see a video of the new diamodback compared to the uci legal tt bikes.. Same test ETC.
Remi Fjelldal plus thr p5x and the old reliable shiv
the tri shiv.
I appreciate this was almost 5 years ago, but that have the updates been since then, to make it faster than Orbea?
thanks for detailed, honest review, just talked me out of one.
You have moneys for that kind of bike?
great review! please do more like this!
haven't there been Z-frame time trial bikes since the 90s or even earlier?
arden0 yes
why didnt they cover the front wheel?
Is there any chance you could provide the relevant power files for aero analysis? That may help defer some of the criticisms around the impact of pacing on speed (even with same overall average power). Also data on how closely the positions were matched between bikes would be good.
I have a Ventum One and it's a fantastic ride. I did have to get new wheels, as my old Zipps rubbed the frame when turning, but not since. As a long-time Softride rider, when parts were no longer available tried a few others: Cervelo P3 and Dimond, and both were junk bikes with poor road vibration absorption. Once I got on the Ventum One, knew immediately had finally had an exceptionally comfortable bike. Comfort equals speed and definitely less upper body/core exertion. If I ever have to replace it, will get the newest Ventum One again!
the chainstays look like they add a huge amount of front surface area. it's known now non-karman airfoil like on the old Giant propel, is bad in real conditions.
Did you have a water bottle on the Orbea? If you didn't, would that have made the test more relative since the Ventum has one on the top tube?
does it absorb radar?
I need downtubes! That's where my shift levers go!
Can you guys try to get your hands on the Ridley Noal Sl disc for review. It's on my shortlist and I would like to hear what you gents have to say about it.
Who needs down-tubes? Riders who prefer non-squirrely handling, apparently. Not actually any faster? What's the point of it then? More work needed guys!
i have canyon strive,when i lean bike on the wall and hit with litlle force my handlebar,i get ratlling metal sound,like rotor disk is loose,when i do same with my wifes bike there is no sound,is something wrong with my bike
Needs an oversized rear axle.
great review. interesting bike nice to see new shapes:) keep it up
mega review that!! well done bike radar
OK, so we have more aero bike that is slower... but heavier (you always do micro accelerations all the time, though one kilo on flat surface should be negligible) and potentially less efficient due to flexing (can this be lab tested?), also drivetrains can be slightly different in terms of efficiency... and there's the obvious, already mentioned factor: rider's position/drag (and one should not forget that it's BIKE + RIDER aero what matters, not just bike itself). In any case, what can be tested on the spot is adding dead weight to Orbea and use the same drivetrain/wheels, or eventually check the position (measure, compare photos from the side...)
did you use non-round chain rings on one and round on the other? That might influence the accuracy of you PM's readings and make them not equal.
It affects the SRM with a magnet-tripped reed switch for cadence but not the Garmin Vector 2 pedals because they understand their angular velocity. Also, if we used the SRM it would make the Orbea on the non-round rings slower not faster because the real power would be lower than the measured power. Good spot and question though.
The question is, which carbon will wear out first, the frame or the wheel?
umm modern zipps don't really wear out
when its getting forced against the frame it might, since they use resin designed for higher temps it inherently causes it to be more brittle, so repeated hitting/rubbing against the frame could cause it to crack
Ohhhhh that's what he meant hahaha
the problem with bikes like these is that R&D starts years before the model is relased, even more so for smaller companies like ventum so by the time they release the bike bigger companies have released a bike which is probably better owing to them having a bigger budget to spend and technology moving so quickly. its a shame tbh but as is life i guess.
Quite like the brakes covers
don't know if I love it or hate it
To be honest, I only allowed to autoplay to continue and watched this because the bike looks so weird to me. ;) Me = no triathlete, no road biker. But in a weird way I might have just learned a lot about stiffness of frame. Thanks for that!
Ventum bike was designed to handle cross winds. It is still a fast bike.
Awesome review! ❤
Hellooo guysss!!
i watch every episode of your channel and i am highly motivated to start moving on cycle
I am a beginner and want to make cycling my life time sport can you help me suggest which bike should I go with as a beginner?
I have few in my mind as they are availabe around my locality and in my bugdet
Montra unplugged 1.1
montra trance pro
firefox momentum 700c
these three i have suggest after doing a long good research
can you help me suggesting which bike should i go with as beginner?
Did you control for seat angle and body position?
side wind?
Basso's Diamante missing here... ;-)! Thanks GNC
what's that? if it aint broke what?
I know for a fact if you adjusted the drop outs the wheel wouldnt rub.
Have you tested a 2020?
Looks like a Lotus 110 circa 1993
I don't think your test is nearly as robust as you think it is. Namely there was no control, also no mention on whether the groupset and position was the same. Also, for all you know the test results could have been anomalies on both runs. You should be aiming for a large, uneven number of runs on each bike in different conditions, seven is a good starting point. That way you can better eliminate any anomalies and start seeing trends and consistency. Also it appears you haven't tested the bikes under race loads and race like distances. WHICH IS WHAT THEY"RE MEANT FOR. Not 10 mile distances. At least test them in the environments they're going to be used in. That's lots of food, water and reasonably long distances. I'd aim for 50km distance minimum. Under these conditions I suspect the Ventum to be faster, probably because of its integrated food and water storage + straw that eliminates the need to get out of the aero position.... valuable seconds saved.
Putting the shilly GCN channel to shame. Except when you do Zwift and indoor trainer vids...
Sweet looking bike though
Well that escalated quickly.
i have that wheels too:) 2 years of saving me pocket money i started at 12 now iam 15
Awesome looking piece of go fast equipment showing how R & D engineering and big bucks can turn in faster times. But at a ever growing high cost and this is killing cycling. Look if you got the money and you want to spend it do it. But remembering the cyclist first should be the most important part of this sport. I feel the biz is pricing many cyclist out and misleading thous new to the sport. Its become about spending big dollar on equipment and less about the rider.
Loosing about 5 watts with that arm hair.
So you pieced together the bike with the drop-outs out of alignment, scratched the bike, made the video, and then blamed the company for the wheel rub? And almost 3 years later you're still showing the same video and haven't owned up to your mechanic's mistake?.... *slow clap*
Wow that's ugly, I'd rather have the Cervelo P5X as far as non-standard frames go.
One word for Ventum "wetted surface area". Well it's 3, but it's why their bike is slow.
Well now the company can make foldable road ebikes isn't it a great idea
I like the Omin tririg better
if you have any more spare parts just laying around taking up space i could take some clutter off your hands and come to think of it i need a few things.. haha
I rather have no seat tube than downtube.
A 10 mile course with gradients & a 7 second difference then a 10 mile flat course with a 24 second difference means what? The difference is so small it surely must be w/i a margin of error for uncontrolled variables. As an example, BR didn't say how they controlled for body position & that's HUGE! They actually didn't even say the SAME rider was used between the bikes. It's an interesting data point but it has to be cast aside.
Lotus!!
So basically it's heavy and slow compared to a regular tt bike
Oh ya, and overly expensive
and ugly
...and self destroying...
down with downtubes
LOTUS REBORN
rear rim rubs frame, yikes!!!
No thanks... I'm a tank, I'd flex that pig into submission!
You guys should put some balancing weight on Orbea to eliminate the weight differences, then you can test the real benefits form the unique shape, I hope there will be some rematches.
man thats ugly
Nature is just throwing wind at it.
Can i have one, please!!!!!!
owwww!!!! hottttt
I still say honk haha
Homage to the Lotus?
www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/chris-boardmans-world-beating-lotus-pursuit-bike-158486
I guess thing the good thing about owning one is that you don't have to look at yourself riding it.... Not a fan. I would say in three years it'll be dead....
6000 hahaha
This guy had lots of arm hair. I mean like if you're gonna shave your legs just shave your arms too.
Wow that is just about the ugliest bike I have ever seen.
All black doesnt make you fast haha
It needs racing stripes. XD
well that was unfortunately anticlimactic
once again the UCI is shutting down developement ..the UCI suck
good review, sounds like a pos.
I want to take that bike and burn it. hideous, overpriced, marketing scheme