Using the factions: In the module, they act more as places where the PCs can rest and heal. Helping with logistics would be useful, too? Replenishing lamp oil, food, water. Obviously recruiting retainers amongst the factions ought to be possible only if the PCs have good relations with them, and if they have not made peace between the factions, I would only allow them recruiting a couple of retainers from each faction (they can't afford to lose members on a wild goose chase) and not the same time, either (since they would not work together). In the duet play (the other comment), I made a really big deal about how suspicious and hostile the factions were to one another, so it took some serious talking to and even a couple of fights for the PC to get through to the factions. She ended up taking the leaders to the outside of the pyramid to show that all three gods had equal billing, and that did the trick (as both the GM and the Player were getting tired of their bickering).
Yeah, the factions are good for lots of things that the party may need. I found it interesting that the adventure starts off with survival elements, only to push the PCs right into the factions arms!
Nice review. I haven't had the pleasure of running this adventure for my group yet. Given that they are at a higher level already, I will have to up-level the adventure a bit, but I don't mind that: these grander storylines work better, IMHO, when it takes some Big Damn Heroes to solve them rather than first level novices. I did use this adventure as a base for some 1-player freeform, and I stole the possessing robe idea, implementing it on the crowns of the King and the Queen. They ended up possessing the (volunteering) leaders of the Brotherhood and the Sisterhood, respectively, and thus the King (a high-level fighter) and the Queen (a high-level cleric) joined the fight against Zargon. Needless to say, the royal couple was not altogether happy about the looting of their tombs by these outsiders, but they were horrified enough by Zargon and the cultists that they were willing to put their people first. Alexander the Great and Zenobia the Wise for the win! And yes, Zargon was defeated, although at the cost of King Alexander's life (having bonded with a living host, they both died, it wasn't a soul jar thing). Oh, and Sirkinos was a sniveling snake, using Charm Person to try and manipulate the party (the player character + the retainers) to becoming his own goon squad, beating first Sisterhood and then the Brotherhood and thus leaving him in charge. Once he was unmasked and defeated, the PC found out that Sirkinos had probably poisoned the previous officiant, and sent his potential rivals on suicide missions, while stunting the magical learning of his followers so that no one could rival his power. Which of course meant that he wasn't strong enough to take on the other factions with just his own faction.
I love hearing about Sirkinos! He’s the only faction leader with a bit of shadiness to go on. He was influential enough in our game to make it to the next canpaign!
This is my favorite module of all time. I just started the video and I'm excited to see what you think. I'll add more to this comment once I've watched the video if I have more to add. After video thoughts: Interesting. There are somethings that I disagree with on how you ran it and I would do differently. 1. I think due to it being 5E you ended up with a much shorter campaign and I just generally don't like 5E. 2. How did someone join all three factions don't the War maidens and Brotherhood only accept one gender? Also they are all different alignments and since the leader of the brotherhood has a helm of telepathy he would know if someone is lying to him or is not Lawful and therefore would be forbidden from joining. Also they all have symbols some of which are obvious tattoos so you couldn't hide it from the others. It shouldn't be possible to join more than one faction, this isn't Skyrim. 3. My method of fleshing out the factions is giving them each a goal or a method they all want to use to restore their people. These also align with their beliefs from ehat their god represents. The Brotherhood of Gorm wants to bring Law back to the people and restore order. The War maidens of Madarua want to kill Zargon as he is a weed that is chocking the life out of the crop of their people. The Magi of Usamigaras believe they can cure the hallucinations cause by the mushrooms (its a plant on the island in the middle of the underground lake and it will work). All three solutions are viable by its up to the players who they side with and help or if they unite all or some of the factions. 4. The method I made to get the players to find the tomb of the king and queen is that I integrated it with the previous point. All three factions have recently ventured up into the pyramid to find the crowns and Scepter of the king and queen. They all want it and will all ask the players to help them retrieve them, whichever faction owns these artifacts has authority over the others. The party can split the artifacts to get them to all have equal power and force a negotiation. In any event Sirkinos is particularly interested in the sceptre because he knows its power and will attempt to use it to acquire the other artifacts and gain power, unless of course Kanadius is present in which case he will read Sirkinos mind and stop him before he can. Also generally Kanadius should just always be untrusting of Sirkinos(with good reason). 5. Zargon should be way harder than what it sounds like he was in your game, they shouldn't stand a chance at 3rd level at all. If it was BX this is a much higher level final battle. Also the War maidens and possibly even the magi and brotherhood should know you need to destroy the horn to permanently kill Zargon and they should all want the party to finish the job. Otherwise it sounds interesting the idea of using the cloak on another NPC is interesting. I am not sure what else to add but thanks for making this video and bringing attention to this module.
First, thanks for the long comment and the kind words! 1-I agree, 5e isn’t my favorite but its what the group wanted to play. 2-I removed the gender/class requirements and just focused on the vibe of each faction. I personally think gender requirements are silly anyway. 3+4 - Super interesting ideas, I bet they work well! 5-The group pressed a djinn from a previous room into their service. They also had some faction help. But yeah I get it should be a challenge - they barely made it out!
@@paperdicegames6585 Removing the requirements removes the "vibe" from the factions. Your suggestion that the gender requirements are silly is ridiculous that's like saying Wonder woman and her people don't need to be all female...of course they do that's the fucking point! The War maidens of Madarua are Greek Amazonian warriors like Wonder woman, they represent femininity and its neutral balance between life and death that's why the statue holding wheat and a sword is symbolic. The Brotherhood of Gorm represents masculinity and its connection to Will power and Law, which is why the statue is wielding a scale and a lightning bolt. Gorm is the god of judgment like the judgement that comes from your father. This is also based on Greek mythology and culture. What is the point of running the B4: The Lost City if you are just going to remove its Greek/Egyptian mythological and cultural themes? See this is why people hate woke nonsense because it removes meaning from everything until it is as empty and soulless as the people who support this nonsense.
Who said anything about being woke? I think it's silly to restrict gameplay based on gender. It's a gameplay design decision. It's so odd to me that's the line of reasoning you took - we had a great time playing B4, and my experiences don't take away from anything you've experienced yourself. @@BX-advocate
@@paperdicegames6585 Fair enough it just comes off as a woke type decision so I made an assumption. All the factions do allow others to join but they should always be lesser members so they do not get the Mask, the other gifts and also not receive the tattoos. So unless you are a female fighter you aren't going to be wearing a bronze mask or wearing a green tunic. I would also have the brotherhood only accept Lawful characters no matter what, since their leader can tell the alignment and they would not trust anything other than Lawful.
Hilariously, I found the 5e printing at my flgs, so I turned to the Zargon page and took two pictures of the stat block. They would have done very poorly but…they had pressed a djinn from a previous room into their service, and the djinn did most of the damage (and took most of the beating, dying in the process).
I don’t have a lot of time for gaming stuff - and this was taking up all my time for gaming stuff. So I took a step back and spent a bit more time playing games.
Using the factions:
In the module, they act more as places where the PCs can rest and heal. Helping with logistics would be useful, too? Replenishing lamp oil, food, water. Obviously recruiting retainers amongst the factions ought to be possible only if the PCs have good relations with them, and if they have not made peace between the factions, I would only allow them recruiting a couple of retainers from each faction (they can't afford to lose members on a wild goose chase) and not the same time, either (since they would not work together).
In the duet play (the other comment), I made a really big deal about how suspicious and hostile the factions were to one another, so it took some serious talking to and even a couple of fights for the PC to get through to the factions. She ended up taking the leaders to the outside of the pyramid to show that all three gods had equal billing, and that did the trick (as both the GM and the Player were getting tired of their bickering).
Yeah, the factions are good for lots of things that the party may need. I found it interesting that the adventure starts off with survival elements, only to push the PCs right into the factions arms!
The trap being triggered made my Dwarf Philip die as we didn't have a thief... I figured they wouldn't trap 2 doors in a row. RIP Philip.
RIP Philip!!!!
Great video. Happy to see you back!
Thanks! I appreciate the kind words!
Nice review.
I haven't had the pleasure of running this adventure for my group yet. Given that they are at a higher level already, I will have to up-level the adventure a bit, but I don't mind that: these grander storylines work better, IMHO, when it takes some Big Damn Heroes to solve them rather than first level novices.
I did use this adventure as a base for some 1-player freeform, and I stole the possessing robe idea, implementing it on the crowns of the King and the Queen. They ended up possessing the (volunteering) leaders of the Brotherhood and the Sisterhood, respectively, and thus the King (a high-level fighter) and the Queen (a high-level cleric) joined the fight against Zargon. Needless to say, the royal couple was not altogether happy about the looting of their tombs by these outsiders, but they were horrified enough by Zargon and the cultists that they were willing to put their people first. Alexander the Great and Zenobia the Wise for the win! And yes, Zargon was defeated, although at the cost of King Alexander's life (having bonded with a living host, they both died, it wasn't a soul jar thing).
Oh, and Sirkinos was a sniveling snake, using Charm Person to try and manipulate the party (the player character + the retainers) to becoming his own goon squad, beating first Sisterhood and then the Brotherhood and thus leaving him in charge. Once he was unmasked and defeated, the PC found out that Sirkinos had probably poisoned the previous officiant, and sent his potential rivals on suicide missions, while stunting the magical learning of his followers so that no one could rival his power. Which of course meant that he wasn't strong enough to take on the other factions with just his own faction.
I love hearing about Sirkinos! He’s the only faction leader with a bit of shadiness to go on. He was influential enough in our game to make it to the next canpaign!
nice. hoping to run this module adapted to 5e at some point before too long. good tips.
Thanks for watching, I hope it helps!
I enjoy hearing about how other DMs ran modules. this one is on my list to run.
Its super fun. Glad I could help, have a good one!
great to see you again !
Thank you!!
This is my favorite module of all time. I just started the video and I'm excited to see what you think. I'll add more to this comment once I've watched the video if I have more to add.
After video thoughts: Interesting. There are somethings that I disagree with on how you ran it and I would do differently.
1. I think due to it being 5E you ended up with a much shorter campaign and I just generally don't like 5E.
2. How did someone join all three factions don't the War maidens and Brotherhood only accept one gender? Also they are all different alignments and since the leader of the brotherhood has a helm of telepathy he would know if someone is lying to him or is not Lawful and therefore would be forbidden from joining. Also they all have symbols some of which are obvious tattoos so you couldn't hide it from the others. It shouldn't be possible to join more than one faction, this isn't Skyrim.
3. My method of fleshing out the factions is giving them each a goal or a method they all want to use to restore their people. These also align with their beliefs from ehat their god represents. The Brotherhood of Gorm wants to bring Law back to the people and restore order. The War maidens of Madarua want to kill Zargon as he is a weed that is chocking the life out of the crop of their people. The Magi of Usamigaras believe they can cure the hallucinations cause by the mushrooms (its a plant on the island in the middle of the underground lake and it will work). All three solutions are viable by its up to the players who they side with and help or if they unite all or some of the factions.
4. The method I made to get the players to find the tomb of the king and queen is that I integrated it with the previous point. All three factions have recently ventured up into the pyramid to find the crowns and Scepter of the king and queen. They all want it and will all ask the players to help them retrieve them, whichever faction owns these artifacts has authority over the others. The party can split the artifacts to get them to all have equal power and force a negotiation. In any event Sirkinos is particularly interested in the sceptre because he knows its power and will attempt to use it to acquire the other artifacts and gain power, unless of course Kanadius is present in which case he will read Sirkinos mind and stop him before he can. Also generally Kanadius should just always be untrusting of Sirkinos(with good reason).
5. Zargon should be way harder than what it sounds like he was in your game, they shouldn't stand a chance at 3rd level at all. If it was BX this is a much higher level final battle. Also the War maidens and possibly even the magi and brotherhood should know you need to destroy the horn to permanently kill Zargon and they should all want the party to finish the job.
Otherwise it sounds interesting the idea of using the cloak on another NPC is interesting. I am not sure what else to add but thanks for making this video and bringing attention to this module.
First, thanks for the long comment and the kind words!
1-I agree, 5e isn’t my favorite but its what the group wanted to play.
2-I removed the gender/class requirements and just focused on the vibe of each faction. I personally think gender requirements are silly anyway.
3+4 - Super interesting ideas, I bet they work well!
5-The group pressed a djinn from a previous room into their service. They also had some faction help. But yeah I get it should be a challenge - they barely made it out!
@@paperdicegames6585 Removing the requirements removes the "vibe" from the factions.
Your suggestion that the gender requirements are silly is ridiculous that's like saying Wonder woman and her people don't need to be all female...of course they do that's the fucking point! The War maidens of Madarua are Greek Amazonian warriors like Wonder woman, they represent femininity and its neutral balance between life and death that's why the statue holding wheat and a sword is symbolic.
The Brotherhood of Gorm represents masculinity and its connection to Will power and Law, which is why the statue is wielding a scale and a lightning bolt. Gorm is the god of judgment like the judgement that comes from your father. This is also based on Greek mythology and culture.
What is the point of running the B4: The Lost City if you are just going to remove its Greek/Egyptian mythological and cultural themes? See this is why people hate woke nonsense because it removes meaning from everything until it is as empty and soulless as the people who support this nonsense.
Who said anything about being woke? I think it's silly to restrict gameplay based on gender. It's a gameplay design decision.
It's so odd to me that's the line of reasoning you took - we had a great time playing B4, and my experiences don't take away from anything you've experienced yourself. @@BX-advocate
@@paperdicegames6585 Fair enough it just comes off as a woke type decision so I made an assumption. All the factions do allow others to join but they should always be lesser members so they do not get the Mask, the other gifts and also not receive the tattoos. So unless you are a female fighter you aren't going to be wearing a bronze mask or wearing a green tunic. I would also have the brotherhood only accept Lawful characters no matter what, since their leader can tell the alignment and they would not trust anything other than Lawful.
Ah and I thought before the last city.
Thanks for checking the videos out though!
Hi!Since the party is level 3 when they meet Zargon I would like to know what stats did you use for him!
Hilariously, I found the 5e printing at my flgs, so I turned to the Zargon page and took two pictures of the stat block.
They would have done very poorly but…they had pressed a djinn from a previous room into their service, and the djinn did most of the damage (and took most of the beating, dying in the process).
What? You got burnout from doing videos? Yet here I am enjoying doing videos... what turned out to be the risk? Just curious... what to watch out for.
I don’t have a lot of time for gaming stuff - and this was taking up all my time for gaming stuff. So I took a step back and spent a bit more time playing games.