"Thinking in Words or Images" - Jordan Peterson
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2022
- Jordan Peterson talks about different modes of thinking.
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Words. I imagine conversations happening more than I actually have them.
Is anyone else able to visualize scenario’s in there head as well, not clear but clear enough to be able to know what’s happening in my own head
I have that to, I can imagine doing my work or play football
Yeah I fantasize a lot
I've got pretty much a TV in my brain that I completely control. Normal thinking is more like gliding in space with different thought clusters that I observe. I've created a few of my own meditative places that serve as backdrops for my thoughts. One is called the shore of crashing waves at a beautiful tropical beach with white sand and smooth, almost soft rocks shaped by the crashing calm waves. One is an underwater place at the bottom of the sea, I call the Sea of Silence. Just to mention a few. Whenever I want, I can stay at any of these places and feel everything with details as almost as real as life. I can hear the waves crashing in. I can smell the salt and tropical flowers. I can hear the birds singing. It's this beautiful relaxing synesthesia that's perfect for meditation and mindfulness.
It’s mostly sound in my head I struggle with mental visuals
@@wihdinheim0 I feel like I know exactly what you are talking about, but maybe I have a less developed sense of this "tv" in my brain. I am not at the point where I can controllably in a "different place" (meditation, being in another.. ??sight, vision?), but I do day dream willingly and sometimes unwillingly (used to happen kinda frequently (I think?? or zone out? idk, I have a lot of add symptoms) but anyways this is a total incomplete thought but I need to move on before I go down a rabbit hole with this comment lmao I do smoke weed and I am mildly high and weed literally has helped me so much in life. see you.
I think in pictures and scenarios. And it affects me. For example, most of the time when I walk and think of doing some physical activity - let’s say wrestling, I find myself bending, lifting hands and changing body positions, Increasing the pace of the walk etc
Same for thinking of situations when people involved - they cause real feelings
I sweat, get excited or anxious
Feel pain and happiness
Too vivid
Like seeing dreams while being awoke
Me too. I think it’s empathy. I can put my self in someone’s shoes and really try to experience what they’re telling me. And it hurts so bad sometimes. But I come out of it with better understanding of what they’re feeling and what choices they had available. That way of thinking helps me make better decisions and judgement. Because I’ve thought of 4 different ways to approach it, each with it’s different outcomes, at least 3-4 Ways something could happen. Maybe it’s because I played fallout and elder scrolls and now I just think In conversation trees 😂😂
It’s almost like live action meditations 😂 sometimes it’s a bit weird bc I’m not psychic, but sometimes the things I’ve given attention to, really does happen. Like predicting an outcome based on a persons body language or the way their talking to me or whatever. I’m very self aware. To the point it hurts me at times. I have adhd and have taken medication since I was 4. It’s created a vigilant curiosity that I’ve sometimes brings me down, realizing that some people completely lack empathy. Bc they prove me right.
Interesting insight.
Same but i always have to snap out of it and realize that the scenarios and images are not the ones that will necessarily play out in the real world
dont breed
It's images and concepts for me. To think in words is cumbersome. My mind does not produce the words. I have to translate the concepts and images into words. This is why I pause when I speak or sometimes speak slowly.
Same g
Complete opposite here, words just flow straight away whereas then, like JP said in his scenario, I have to translate those words into images, which does happen fast but not with the highest detain unless I really try to map out the image with words. It’s kinda strange tbh
Same here. I have trouble articulating myself and speaking fast and fluently as other people. I pause a lot or can’t respond as fast as others. Images, instincts, concepts and feelings come freely and naturally, but often have to be consciously translated to words. This extra step is probably why socialising and talking drains me more than other people. It’s also why I’ve never been able to wing presentations or interviews without preparation and why I struggle in fast paced group conversations.
I never got how people could have full on conversations on autopilot and not be fully aware of what they were saying until I realised they were probably verbal thinkers.
I can articulate myself really well in writing though given enough time because then I have enough time to translate properly.
People often look at my writing and think it’s written by a different person because it’s so much more fluent, coherent and expressive than what comes out of my mouth lmao
Words, words all the way.
Even when I'm thinking about an image, it's words describing it and not the image itself.
I think using images a good example is when I build a work related procedure I see things in my head like a process map it is vivid like a movie.
When I think about something I'm gonna say or write or something I'm reading it is spoken words in my head. When I'm remembering something, it's an image. When I'm remembering a taste or a smell I can faintly taste/smell what im thinking of. If I think about temperature, I can feel warmer or colder.
And when trying to solve something like morally it randomly overlaps one another.
I think in words and have to concentrate to put the image together like a jigsaw puzzle. If I were to close my eyes and try to see my dog in my head I would get a shopping list of words, like I'm describing her to someone else. 4 legs, brown fur, pointy ears... The image does come, but it's like I'm looking at her without my glasses on.
This is exactly what I do, I only recently realised that it wasn't what everyone does
I think when I'm awake, as opposed to being asleep or in some kind of altered state between asleep and awake, my visualization is poor and vague. But in dreams and in visions.. I've seen things more vividly and clearly and in more detail than I see them in reality. Sometimes when I've been in dreams and this has happened, I've become aware of the fact that I'm dreaming. Sometimes the thing that clued me in was the fact that I could see more clearly than I can actually see in reality. In those dreams I just look around myself in amazement. I touch things to feel the texture. All this enormous volume of detail that this human brain is just seemingly instantaneously creating or somehow pulling together and presenting. It's incredible. And the questions around it all are often unfathomable. Why? Why this place, this imagery, these sounds, smells, these textures? I've never been to a place like this so far as I recall, yet here I am, in this dream. Why? It's so strange.
If someone says something and you think "yeah that's right" or "no, wait, what about.." are you thinking in words? Like those words? Are you thinking in pictures? In the instant when the meaning of what they said is clear in your mind, it is either resonant or dissonant, or somewhere in between, but you often have a virtually instant response, and then you have to spend some time, maybe a fraction of a second, or a few seconds, to think about it more, maybe to be more sure of yourself, and then formulate your thoughts into words. So when the thought occurred to you initially, or even when you were thinking about it more, were you thinking words? In pictures? No. There wasn't time for it be in words. There was no time for even a single word to be spoken in my head. And for me it's not really pictures, either. I had an instantaneous thought, or nearly instantaneous, maybe it didn't come to me right away, but when it did, it sort of "arrived" in an instantaneous way, without any pictures or words, and then I had to put my thought into words. It seems like I see other people having the same kind of processes go on. Initial thought, further thought, word formulation. And the word formulation often takes time. Sometimes the formulation is very fast, but other times it definitely takes marked time. If you're thinking in words to begin with, why do you have to spend time putting your thoughts into words?
It seems like people think in meanings and then translate their thoughts from there.
I couldn’t read all u wrote but I completely agree with last sentence
I don't think in either, rather in abstract concepts
Yes this is what I wanted to hear, I think in abstract concept too, it's like answers to my questions almost come into my mind without visualization or thinking it in words, its like a pattern in my mind that is not a visual just something I can't explain
Same
I have trouble articulating myself and speaking fast and fluently as other people. I pause a lot or can’t respond as fast as others. Images, instincts, concepts and feelings come quickly, freely and naturally, but often have to be consciously translated to words. This extra step is probably why socialising and talking drains me more than other people. It’s also why I’ve never been able to wing presentations or interviews without preparation and why I struggle in fast paced group conversations. I sometimes sound like English is my second language lol.
For years I thought those internal monologues that anime characters do or like in Peep Show was unrealistic until my friends told me that’s how they think almost all the time which shocked me so much
I never got how people could have full on conversations on autopilot and not be fully aware of what they were saying until I realised they were probably verbal thinkers.
I can articulate myself really well in writing though given enough time because then I have enough time to translate properly.
People often look at my writing and think it’s written by a different person because it’s so much more fluent, coherent and expressive than what comes out of my mouth lmao
I am fascinated by this! Discovered today that some people are like you… so that’s why some people speaks slowly, it makes sense now. I always thought that I have a mouth in my head cause I just say things like the voice in my head and it’s really hard for me to visualize before talking. That’s crazy, I’m so enchanted by this. God creates everything perfect, you’re unique. I wish I could shut off my voice on my head sometimes. It’s hard to sleep, concentrate, intrusive thoughts … and I still can imagine things, feel the smell and flavor.
If I ask you to imagine an Apple, how would you see it at first? 3D, word, draw..? Just curious about it
@@dressapanini9264 i felt like I was just slow for a large chunk of my life so it was a massive relief to realise how it’s just my thought process is just different, I’m fascinated by the adhd inner monologue videos on TikTok - I cannot fathom having a head filled with multiple verbal simultaneous running commentaries 24/7, but it explains why some people can have so many opinions, interesting/funny/clever thoughts and talk for hours effortlessly which I’ve always been jealous of lol.
If you asked me to think of an apple, I see a slightly blurry 3d picture of a generic red apple (not a specific one - not cartoon or outline, almost like AI generated image) with shiny reflection on it. If I had or saw an apple very recently, I would probably see that exact one in my minds eye with the surrounding environment/background.
I do still get lots of anxiety and intrusive thoughts but it’s more like I can conceptually anticipate or visually see things going wrong
My ADHD has me alternate between thinking in words and in images. I think more effectively with words but often time find random images popping into my head. Trying to work now to get better control of my mind.
Imagine you're sitting in a room with yourself with a computer in front of you, and other you is talking to you and explaining things, that's how I think. And when I need to imagine an object or way a mechanism moves, I just pull it up on the computer. Sehr interessant
I think very well in images and almost exclusively so. But I am very concept-oriented. My dreams are intensely vivid and detailed with layer upon layer of symbolism. The main way I understand abstract ideas is by assigning visual characteristics to them. So I think that makes me a lover of ideas, but I still think visually.
When I'm listening I think in pictures but when I'm talking I think in words, unless I'm explaining a memory or telling a story from my past, then I think in pictures
Perhaps one of the most interesting topics I've pondered in years. The self reflection on this topic is massive.... Which one is better in which situation and am I applying them that way?
I think in colors. Every letter, word and even person has a color. And they also have a shape. I thought everyone else was just like me and it was only about four years ago I found out it wasn't so. I think it's called 'synaesthesia'.
I have a strong internal monolog, but I can also imagine things in pictures and maliable 3D images that can be manipulated or do basic physics simulations, so long as I have the proper parameters. However, I also learned that equations just mathematically describe shapes. It's like doing math without the math.
Words and images are just easily recognizable patterns that we use to think. I would say there are many others. It is not just words and images. I would say I think in "realities" or "overlays" which can be either bound to visual/auditory/sensory/other information or completely detached. Like a city map - it is always present in the overlay, so I know where things are and don't need to recall/memorize/imagine a path that I have taken or willing to take. When I think of a math problem there are no words or images, it is just axioms, rules and paths. Yeah, sometimes it is useful to also think of an image, but it is usually enough to think of a formula and a path how to get it from the axioms. Another example is the keyboard. I don't need to look at it, I don't need to think of its image, or where the buttons are, I just think what to type and fingers know what to do to make that thing typed. I don't remember my passwords, I just recall how to type them. There are multiple password, yet when I need to type one I type the one that is needed specifically here. So there is a password "overlay". When I am asleep I often use one of the bigger imaginary realities. So it is like a huge overlay, where I have an abstraction of memory thoughts, visuals and sensory info. When in a dream I can remember the previous dream and what was there. It is like when I go to sleep I get to chose whether I continue one of the previous dreams or create a completely new one.
P.S. I think forgetting is abnormal and actually is an illness that almost everyone seems to just accept and suffer from.
I think like a conversation in my head. I'm amazed that not everyone does this.
I think in pictures to some extent I don’t exactly see what I’m thinking but I still know what I’m think it’s like I’m in a dark room I can’t see anything but I can fell the room and I tell where certain areas are and I memorize them to the best of my abilities which I think is why I have good spacial awareness
That's interesting, when I think I "feel" concepts. That's why I have hard time expressing things in spoken language.
I think we just think we think in words or pictures. Since I learned more languages I realized I do not think in either. I think I think in toughts and depends on who asks what I am thinking of I translate to different words/language etc. And I also think I am no special.
I've always asked my friends that can speak other languages when their speaking do they think in one and translate it or just in the one their speaking and was always curious which one was their first and when alone and thinking to them selves which one they use lol the answers have al varied depending on each scenario always in favour of the dominant language they use in everyday life but all where visual thinkers but not all where visual learners, some that are bilingual from such a young age and use both quite regularly say they think in flowing visual pictures or concepts and depending on who their talking to just depends on what language they use to speak their thoughts and can do so without having to think about it to much.. and for some reason they always seem to be much more interesting people on different levels than none bilinguals. Having ADHD was hard when I was younger especially and articulating what I saw was challenging and getting me to listen to someone speaking was id say hard for others unless I was captivated haha some teachers are smarter than others and im thankful the few that seen this helped..
I can vividly recreate a map that I’ve seen or imagined, with color. That’s explained why I quite struggled with my speeches
thats incredible, i can barely visualize anything in my had
You think in feeling and try and interpret in words.
Thinking in words is draining. I tested memorizing a lyrics using image only and it worked
Thinking to me is feeling. You feel than it’s converted into words or images
I think in super hd quality videos with audio and I'm not being sarcastic. Best part is every part of the imagination is under my control.
yeah i think in 3d model.
this is incredible, the brain is so interesting
(FACTS OVA FEELINGS). Wee Often Don't Real-eye the Thoughts. Words and Actions that Continue to Cause Us to Experience the Same Unwanted Things Wee Don't Want to Sea How Unwittingly Unintentionally and Unconsciously Bring Them About
what about those who think in abstract concept
here is my question for everyone at home if anyone sees this. how do you experience emotions? ive never heard anyone ask this. do you think your feelings like words? or do you visualize your emotions perhaps imagining acting them out without intending to do so? or do you feel them like a physical sensation in the pit of your chest? i hope you all will answer im very curious to see if there is a difference between people.
for me personally i feel my emotions as a physical sensation very occasionally accompanied by a song playing in my head such as the song lovely day by bill withers. i can turn the song off if i want though thats optional.
I feel like I think in terms
I as well think the world perception is kinda like a first language we learned as babies
Only later we started to talk
Like I speak 3 languages and one word translated from each of those often has different like shades of meaning
So I think of object/term, it’s “shade”, it’s feel rarely with a picture and it’s not so vivid as well
then try to find words (which I often struggle with )
I use both
I think think in pictures but i see it dark most of the time but if im with eyes open i cam imagine them better than with them closed
I’m almost exclusively words and numbers.
Words paint a picture like brush strokes in my mind.
I’m very low creativity. I can’t visualise a concept, but I can describe it precisely.
However, I can recall exact images. Almost photographically recall. But I interpret them as words.
Basically, I’m shit at art or visualising an original idea. But I can describe how something could work as a new system/ process.
I’m an engineer, so unsure if that has an impact?
I used to think in images. Now I think in C. College fundamentally changed me.
I can't picture a thing, all words for me
what's it mean if i think in numbers? like i think with math formulas and numbers.
This is interesting. Why can I imagine anything in my head. And it's clear as day. For example. I can picture the crowd in front of him in my own image, and every thing is clear. I can zoom in that image and give everyone a face. I can turn up and down the lightning, change the color of the seats or even make it rain. I'm just learning now that not everyone can do this. Wtf
Any links to the full presentation?
ua-cam.com/video/UoQdp2prfmM/v-deo.html
1:31:10
@@kareemahmed7731 ?
@@maurikuvalentinus1657 that’s the minute where he starts talking about ‘Thinking in Words or Images’ in the larger video I linked
@@kareemahmed7731 For whatever reason, the link isn't showing up and the stamp just redirects me to this video.
The way i visualize is like having a dream in real time.
I think in concepts, i don't think in words and rarely in images. If i think in images it's mostly rough shapes and contours with usually no details.
So i think in concepts. I'm native in French and i kind of self learned English with tv (i got the base in school) So i've learned to associate things between French and English in concepts rather than pure translation.
I think through sounds
I think in pictures. An image lands, - in that one image my mind “sees”everything it took to get to that point. Like a QR code?
It feels like linear thinking, but describing things on the fly is so difficult. Especially having a Caribbean accent. 🇻🇮
- after ten years I just recently realized I do a mental gymnastics every time before I speak bc I am converting/ structuring my sentences first and sounding out the word pronunciations so I’m understood and not sound like “I’m from Jamaica” 😂
Anyway, lemme guh watch de video
I think it's not image(I'm not sure what you intended)
video or simulation
if you're a visionary thinker,
you can play the movie(memory, new movie, whatever) in your head
How do you think?
Uhhh is it me or do others think in both and one other thing: like nothing but blackness and a swirling sort of dark gray void where I gather my thoughts from…..I hadn’t really thought about it until I told my counselor how I sometimes can read what I hear and think in my mind snd see pictures of scenarios clearly…
my issue is that i see every letter of every word when spoken by someone else.
what about hearing in pictures.?
We think in a conceptual form, then verbalize it in the form of language into a kind of monologue, its actually not a thinking process, but ur just talking to ur self
I honestly don't think I think in either pictures nor words. I'd say my thoughts are just an abstract concept of the thing that in thinking, if that makes any sense.
For me it's very hard to visualize an image of anything in my head, kinda like he describes in the video but worse, so I'm definitely not a picture-thinker. I'd say I'm closer to the word-thinker side, but i usually don't think in words itself, at least not in any particular language, they are more like concepts (but not visual). Only when I want to say or write something, that I materialize the thoughts in my head into words, or perhaps a vague image if need to describe something.
My mind is weird
Does that matter?
Someone said he used to be a pop thinker. What does pop thinker mean?
Images are just 2D, what I think in is 3D and only a little bit in words
I have a condition called aphantasia. I can't see pictures in my mind at all.
When you read something, you can't imagine what the author tells you in pictures? That would be a nightmare for me. Especially since I read Sci fi and fantasy novels.
Do you dream?
I didn’t know this was a thing, I can’t either
@@DOSRetroGamer I do dream. It's pretty rare though. Only once every month and a half or so, typically. Sometimes I go several months without dreaming.
@@thelawyer95 Nope. I can't do that. I typically stick to reading nonfiction. I've been told that for some people, when they read fiction, it plays out like a movie in their mind.
So wat about how I think in actions? Anytime I attempt to think in words I turn into a full dumbass and just gawk at things. Anytime I try to think in images either I draw a blank or it is so blurry and partial that no true thoughts or understanding comes thru.
Yea, again I'm not included in the lists of possible buckets.
Jordan “as far as I can tell” Peterson
"My suspicion is..."
Pictures
Why are words and pictures the only options?
I am (or at least I once was) a mathematician.
Geometry is a branch of mathematics which deals with pictures.
Logic is a branch of mathematics which has a more than passing resemblance to words and sentences.
Then there is algebra. The study of the laws of arithmetic. Neither words nor pictures there. Just bizarre assortments of abstract symbols.
How about set theory - the study of collections and sorting. A few of the basic ideas maybe can be captured in pictures, but certainly not all.
Mind you, as my sister once said of mathematicians, "You should all be sectioned."
(For those cultures where this word is not used, "sectioned" means forcibly admitted into a mental healthcare institution without the consent of the patient.)
I am fairly certain that I don’t think at all (all available evidence supports this statement). 😄
Seriously now-
I have never thought in words. I could never do that, so translating everything inside my head in any language is excruciatingly frustrating, slow, and clumsy. I strongly dislike using words to say anything outside the automatic and banal fairly meaningless words and expressions (‘How are you? Fine, thanks. Nice weather’ type of conversation). One word in a sentence with or without the non- verbal aspects, and the whole becomes something different with a different reality. Crocheting external realities with words is very, very frustrating. I can forever agonise over choices of words- until the other just leaves or sometimes I forget what I wanted to say 😄 Words are SLOOOOW, empty shells, ossified ‘things’ that rattle like dead bones. Words, for me, are clothes that are too tight for ideas.
I can visualise a general picture or in minute detail or both at the same time, but only when I want to visualise something. I just draw the focus to the surface and vividly ‘visualise’ a whole multi-sensorial ‘thing’ or just visual elements, for example. Or several and play with them combining them in different ways- rotate visual elements, listen to the specific music or noise they make in different combinations, sniff the trail of scented noises or shadows or feel the texture as well as feel the overarching feel of the whole thing, etc.
For me, there are layers upon layers of entire auditory- visual- kinaesthetic- emotional sets. Even when I take a walk in nature, on my own, without any other people around, I can switch between several ‘modes’/ sets- the same tree I am looking at can be a different tree moments later, though I know it’s the same tree. I imagine it’s like switching between parallel universes or several movies superimposed running concomitantly.
Imagine when I am speaking to one person or, worse, when I am with several people 😞 I instantaneously and globally perceive (fairly accurately) the set each of them (almost invariably each has only one)- how they perceive+ what they perceive+how they think+ what they think+how they feel+what they want+ many other things ON TOP of my own internal and external experiences. Imagine a Venn diagram and me making terrible efforts to find the area of intersection so that I can even start communicating with them.
Also, for each person there is a core structure with situational/ contextual overtones. You should see/ feel/ perceive for example two or more people who don’t like each other even though both of them are convinced that they’re best friends!
It is genuinely EXHAUSTING despite (or maybe because) my efforts to suppress most of it (which makes me suppress also the basics I shouldn’t). I am an extreme introvert, but not by choice; even with minimal human contact I am genuinely exhausted. A bumblebee on a leaf or a ray of sun is not the same from a moment to another, let alone people 😕 The cherry on top? Each global perceptual set has several storylines. People talk about reframing, but I struggle with choosing a perceptual frame/ reality AND a story for it, one to make sense to the others, too. Alas, most of the time is impossible or it’s so damn constricted, so downright boring and basic that literally makes me lose my will to live. There was a time when I thought that I only have an overactive imagination, but quite a few times what I ‘just knew’ turned out to be factually accurate even in the constricted reality. So, yeah… it’s amazing and fun… until I have to interact/ intersect with the only one world of others which is extremely poor perceptually and conceptually. I’m suppressing so much that I will implode one of these days 😄 (I laugh, but it’s tragic, really. And I am completely exhausted).
I am both... I also have conversations with myself, and/or the Holy Spirit... I dream in colour, and can also taste, hear and smell in them... not always but I can also hear the words when I read them... when there is no movie there is an individual voice for each character, as well as an image of what they look like- but usually, the movie will come out and ruin mine and overlay it with those from the movie- so yes if I read a quote from Christopher Walken, I do... get all, the pauses. It's completely, as if.... he ... is...speaking, in my head...
Bjj
What does it mean when you think in hieroglyphs?
😃 It means that you like Ancient Egypt.
How do you think?