Downunder back in the pre-Port Arthur days, I saw quite a few E2 stocks on M14 and M1A rifles. Probably at least a quarter of those in my service rifle shooting group (numbered more than 400 with about a third using M14/M1A rifles).
This is a very accurate history and overview of this weapon. One caveat. It was intended to be an automatic rifle, not a light machine gun, replacing the BAR, not the 1919A6. Comparing it to the M60 is just not relevant. I trained on the M-14 in basic and infantry AIT at Ft Lewis Washington, September 1967-February 1968. In AIT we used the M14E2 / M14A1 for the "automatic rifle" part of the training and M60s for the "machine gun" component. Both were better weapons than they are often given credit for. At age 17, I was an experienced shooter and liked the M14 in general even though it was a very conservative modification of the M1. I loved the M14E2. You had to learn to use the rear handgrip to seat the butt well against your shoulder and use the front grip to pull the weapon well down on the bipod. If you mastered three-round bursts, you could knock down target after target at 500 meters without a miss. Any more than four rounds in one burst and it was wasted ammo. It was very accurate in short bursts and extremely accurate on semi-auto. But it was hard to train completely inexperienced guys on it. I think at some of the ranges in Korea and Germany, it would have been much superior to the M16, at least with two per squad and the rest with m16s. But it was long and clumsy getting in and out of a M113 APC with it. And the ammunition and magazines were heavier than those of an M16. In Vietnam, at the ranges we were at in II Corps, the shorter effective range and less lethal round of the M16 were not a disadvantage. The M16 had its problems, but was a better weapon in Vietnam than the M14. After BCT and Infantry AIT at Lewis, I went through jump school at Benning and was assigned to the 82nd two weeks before Martin Luther King was shot. I was in B/2/508. When King was killed, we flew up to Washington D.C. for riot duty. The squad I was in guarded a bank and a liquor store on South Capitol Street, just north of the bridge over the Anacostia River, a few blocks from Ft. McNair. We were armed with M16s, but I was told to turn mine in to the arms room and I drew a good old M14E2. There was fear of "black radicals" acting as snipers and I was the platoon's designated "anti-sniper sharpshooter." I had fired Expert with the M14, M14E2 and M60 at Lewis and I guess that was on my Form 20. So I guarded the liquor store with the 14E2 and later a refrigerated warehouse near the FBI headquarters. No one in our company fired a single round the whole time we were there. The first two nights, the African-American grannies in the run-down tenements a block west of S. Capitol brought us hot food because all we had was C-rations. The Maryland National Guard, which went in right away, was full of week-end warriors who were mostly students at the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins. They were scared whizless and fired off hundreds of rounds the first two nights. The 82nd was made up of 19-year olds who thought they were really tough. And we had a lot of poor blacks in our company. They were on their home turf. Other units said that the "AA" shoulder patch of the 82nd stood for "Almost-African" rather than "All-American." But we had fire discipline. I was told that all the companies from the 82nd together fired a total of less than 20 rounds. The National Guard units fired many hundreds, mostly because they did not have the naive self-confidence we in "the division" did. p.s., I have not been back to South Capitol Street since 2002 or so, when I took my son to the museum at the Washington naval yard a few blocks to the east., but the liquor store was still there and still in business. You ordered through a slot in a thick glass window and got your order via a pass-through. The old ramshackle wood tenements had been replaced with really grim public housing. If anyone has been to that area more recently, I'd like to know if it is still open.
Thanks for your story and information on the M14E2. I was fortunate enough to purchase the same setups that FW is auctioning. Thank you for your service and welcome home.
Yeah. In the summer of '70 I was going to Ordnance School in Quantico and one of our weekend passes was put on hold because they thought they might need us on Riot Duty in D. C. but it didn't happen and they let us go. I remember watching a grunt platoon out on the parade ground practicing their Stomp & Step, advancing one bit at a time with fixed bayonets but they didn't have us do that. Yeah ... the National Guard units just don't have the fire discipline of Regular Military and certainly not that of elite units. Thus Kent State ... One thing about Kent State though - is that shooting at people to draw their fire onto innocents - was in fact Communist Doctrine. They used it repeatedly in Vietnam and they had used it to start WWII at the Marco Polo Bridge incident in the summer of '37 in China. So - I don't know if the NG unit at Kent State WAS actually fired on - but - it is exactly the kind of thing Communists would do - with exactly the result that they would want. .
My early time in the army matches your months exactly, except it was Ft Polk, Ft Leonard Wood, then a little farther north on Smoke Bomb Hill. Did you ever meet Nicky Gillespie?
In 1967 I qualified sharpshooter with the M-14 rifle, expert with the M-60 machine gun in field fire (bipod), marksman with the M-60 (tripod), and marksman with the M-14E2. The E2 was difficult to control so as to get tight & accurate 2-3 round bursts. The forward handgrip is adjustable for arm length. There are 3 positioning holes in the stock that it can be attached via. The rifle I had to shoot with was on the furthest out (long arm) setting while my arms are short. We weren't given an opportunity to make any adjustments. He doesn't show it here but the sling can be wrapped around your back and shoulder, and that helps control muzzle rise on full auto. Using the sling and with the front handgrip in the right hole, I could do well with this weapon. The 7.62 round is good for blasting through the jungle, but where it comes into it's own is against longer range targets, against which it is more effective than the M-16.
Interestingly because of fighting in places like Afghanistan they are now reassessing the 5.56 because it lacks the range needed to engage the Taliban fully.
My Grampa was in a jungle base near Bien Hua Vietnam, he was issued an M-14 although, his captain actually didn't issue any bullets because that captain refused to answer the night guard one night and got himself shot at. That was always one of his favorite stories to tell about his time over there.
@@feedthemeat543f I found it very hard to hit targets over 300 meters with an M-16. I fired the M-16A1 for record in '71 and qualified expert during the day phase, in the night phase marksman.
@@tonygumbrell22 The A2s the Marines and later the Army got had better sights for range. Click-adjustable between 300-800 meters on the M16A2 in 25 meter increments. The modern detachable carry handles only go out from 300-600 meters. M16A1 had the flip sights that either were two range settings or one with a large ghost ring for use with tritium night sights. A2 had only the latter option, though had much better range adjustability. This was from Lt. Col. Lutz USMC (Ret.) who was in charge of the M16A2 program, and added those sights so that, assuming they're trained for it (which Marines were, but not the Army), a squad leader could better use the riflemen as a base of fire by telling them the target and range and firing on command and whatnot. This was from his experience about that very same thing, where as a platoon leader in Vietnam, where the M16A1s with the sights you mentioned had difficulty laying a base of fire without those adjustable sights when there's a couple of VC blasting away at 400 meters with their SKS. Of course, everyone now has ACOG scopes or whatever other new scope they've adopted, which probably means you can get those hits much further away than you could with the precisely one or two range settings on the M16A1.
+ToastyMozart Well, I'm thinking it was to determine what was best for the role. You always need to try something different. Maybe it wasn't so obvious to them as it to us now knowing what we know.
+ToastyMozart During Korean war, the BAR was used as a suppressing fire weapon. Basically the shooter would just reload and keep shooting large amount of ammunition randomly at the target and the other members would come to the side and finish the job. That's basically where the concept came from. The idea is to have a heavier barrel, a stable base, and being able to just sit someone and shoot large volume of fire at something. Normal M1A has a lighter barrel and although it could function well in the same role, it would degrade faster and not be as stable.
+ToastyMozart Almost as bad as the British L86 LSW...... an intermediate caliber assault rifle is not suitable for a light support weapon even with a heavy barrel.
Ian; One of the U.S. Army units I was in had six E2 variants, still in the original configuration in the early 80s. We also had several M-14A1s, with the receivers remarked to reflect the A1 designation. However, all of the rifles so marked, as M-14A1, were formerly select fire rifles, as issued M-14s, but with the full auto capability removed, and all the full auto parts removed. The selector switch gap in the stocks were either plugged, or entirely new Walnut stocks without the selector switch cutout installed. I was always told that the designation M-14A1 referred only to original issue M-14s, that had been deselected, IE lost full auto capability. I had an opportunity to work on, and function test fire many of these rifles. One other feature that our E2s had that was not included in the version in your video, we had a 2lb weight that could be hung from the bipod by the front sling swivel. While the additional weight helped, it wasn't really enough, and was often "lost" in the field by actual users. On the E2s in this unit, the sling swivel on the bipod was only used for hanging the additional weight, and a standard front sling swivel was attached to the fore end of the E-2 stock. Another feature you may not have been aware of, is that the collapsable fore grip can be moved into any one of the several mounting holes on the underside of the fore end of the stock. Small rubber plugs were provided to close off all the holes not used in the mounting of the grip, to reduce dirt/debris contamination inside the stock/action. Keep up the good work! SFC Bruce R. Gadbois U.S. Army
The M14 in CoD: Black Ops looks like this and shoots only in semi. BTW, the game takes place in the 60's but many weapons in the game aren't invented by then.
+rambokicksass77 But the power of various weapons in pretty much all computer games are total bogus.... Being shot by a M1911 is just as likely to kill you as being shot by a M16. As someone knowledgeable in things once said "Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and the rest is just angels dancing on the head of pins". Weapon damages, ranges, accuracy etc are just there for game balance reasons, and have little to do with actual reality. For example, most military assault rifles have the same accuracy, which isn't improved for normal ranges with a scope (nor does a scope increase damage, or make a 7,62x51 Sniper Rifle do way more damage than a 7,62x51 assault rifle with the very same barrel length). For most military standard assault rifles, the deciding factor is instead the ammunition. Since standard military ammo is produced to be cheap and reliable rather than accurate, so whatever differences there are in accuracy between rifles are negated by that simple fact. Snipers use specific match ammo, manufactured to higher standards for better accuracy. Also, putting a scope on a weapon doesn't make you a better shot....and the difference between a sniper and a rifleman isn't the weapon itself, but also the actual skill in using it....Give your average rifleman a sniper rifle that is capable of reliably putting rounds into a target the size of a human head at half a mile, and he would be unlikely to even hit that target at that distance.... And I didn't even mention shotguns....Man...Shotguns in computer games.... Magical weapons that do tremendous damage if you are really close, but whose bullets apparently drop in kinetic energy like it was fired in jello or something. At 15 meters (50 feet), shotguns barely do any damage, and at ranges over 30 meters (100 feet), their pellets apparently evaporates into thin air. Which is kinda unlike real shotguns, which works just fine at those ranges.....And often even have sight set for things like 100 meters...clearly ridiculous distances for a shotgun, according to first person shooters....
@@nehcrum Rising Storm Vietnam doesn't have that kind of weapon handling. The only gun you usually need two shots up close for is the makarov (if you don't hit anything important) and you can basically snipe with the hunting shotgun
I remember the E2 being featured in an article written in a gun magazine back in 1966 (I was 12)...I thought it was the most awesome looking rifle EVER...say what you will about m14's I've always enjoyed and done well with them on the range...
My version of the modern semi-auto M14E2 utilizes a rigid, standard profile 4 groove 16.25" barrel with a 1:10 ROT. The stock is a new USGI Birch that I finished. It wears a light weight ventilated aluminum railed hand guard topped by an Aimpoint Comp M4. The rifle is accurate & reliable, and I have set it up to accept a bi pod, a 50 round drum magazine, and a sound suppressor. Easily a favorite of the many M14s I have built.
itsthatsebguy93 I was reading about it in a book yesterday. Seems like putting this pistol grip stock on all the M14s would've been a good idea, if the M14 hadn't been replaced so quickly.
+itsthatsebguy93 In the Season 1 finale of The A-Team; during Faceman's flashback scene at the funeral the A-Team is attending (Which is basically stock footage shot during the Vietnam War) ; An NVA Soldier can be seen firing the full auto version. This was the first time I'd ever seen the weapon.
I went through Basic and AIT at Ft. Jackson, SC in summer of 1965. In AIT, I was in the 11C platoon. We were all told to draw E2s for the squad drills and integrate with the 11B squads…which we didn’t. We all formed infantry squads with everyone carrying E2. Boy! Did we lay down a base of fire!
I love your videos! A friend introduced me to your channel. I have little knowledge of guns and you explain everything in such detail, thanks! Definitely gonna follow all your future videos. Great collection btw!
What a joke. It's not even made of skeletonized white or OD aluminum. Not high speed, not low drag, how am I supposed to operate with this? There's not even a scope for me to ignore when I 360 no scope. What, am I supposed to 360 no irons? 2/10 would not bang or pew. In all seriousness, great video Ian, congrats on the successful crowd funding campaign, can't wait for the pancor!
Ian watching this video I really think you need to do a combination video with Larry Vickers. He has done some fascinating videos about historical guns like the Stoner 63 and the M60E4.
I carried an auto toggle M14 during my 22 months in Viet Nam. It was configured like the semi auto M14 and was not difficult to control. I did see one M14 configured like your display model.
I assembled one on a Polytech receiver, from parts I found in trade magazines, gun shows and classifieds, BEFORE the internet. Its my favorite piece. The stock was the hardest to find in UN-issued cond., $300.00. Had the option for an highly illegal re-welded auto capable TRW receiver for 300.00. STILL kicking myself.
The little cylinder on the side is actually the selector lock, and is on all M14s. For FA, it was replaced with the actual selector switch. Springfield Armory marketed an E2 kit as a catalogue item as late as the mid-90s. I bought my personal M1A while working for a distributor, and he had one in stock. While cool, I wanted a rifle as close as possible to the M14 I trained with at Marine Corps OCS back in '75. Amusingly, at one point, the M14 was supposed to replace not only the M1 and BAR, but also the M2 carbine AND the M3 subgun!!
One of the few actual gun experts out here. Very respectable. I wish I had his knowledge and his job. The man's a genius. Also rare to see a gun guy who doesn't act like guns adds inches his ego. Best gun channel on UA-cam. Kentucky Ballistics is my second favorite. Check him out. He's funny as hell.
Comparing the M14a1/e2 to the M60 is like comparing the BAR to the M1919, or the FG42 to the MG42. In fact, the M14a1 was just meant to be a BAR replacement, a full auto/short burst/full caliber automatic rifle in a fire team of semi-auto riflemen., not a platoon level support weapon. M14a1 would have been a breakthrough in the bolt-action rifle 1940's, but was much less relevant in the assault rifle 1960's.
Cool video Ian. Ive read about these and seen pictures (the old B&W book ones, so detail is bad) So its very cool to see this up close and with your usual excellent commentary. The Army sure was fascinated with the idea of a rifle turned into an LMG lol. Im just surprised it took them so long to realize something needed to fill the void between gpmg and rifle. I for one am surprised at the 1600-2250 estimate. Way lower than I would have guessed! The thing that catches my eye is the angles on that stock. Maybe its just me, but it looks kinda thin and could possibly split at the wrist?
+TheKodiak72 Why, don't they allow full auto weapons at all? Not even with the proper registration and licensing? That's a bit odd. I've seen people in New Zealand with Anti-Tank Rifles; and they are allowed to shoot them.
+TheKilroyman As a regular citizen here you can't own a semi auto, have to have specific licenses for a pistol. Semi auto pistols cannot be above .40 cal without special reasons like metal silhouette competition shooting. To have a semi auto rifle or semi / pump shotgun shooting pest animals must be your main form of income. In NZ you can own any semi auto but you require a different license to own military semi autos which are not hard to get if you are a member of a sporting club that shoots in military rifle comps or if you collect them.
+TheKilroyman Australia's gun laws are so bad because in 1996 there was a terrible mass shooting, so the government decided to have a gun buyback program, destroyed and banned all guns. The only guns that are in Australia are either military or illegally never turned in.
I had a book on 20th century weapons, and in it was the USA M-15 SQUAD AUTOMATIC RIFLE. All M-14 could be select fire rifle, this is possible by a small disc on its receiver, that a switch could be placed on the receiver.
My Winchester M14E2 had the longer sling w/hook, the front grip DID lock into place, a steel liner to prevent the wooden fore arm from scorching (I obtained this after pumping through 5 mags on auto). The auto switch was skinnier than the knob shown and mine had an "A" indicating auto fire. Accuracy at 300m was not the best with 30% hits on short bursts. Still fun to shoot.
During the early 70s, I acquired a M14E2 ( US AMTU BUILD) H&R RECEIVER brought back from SVN by a member of the AATTV ( Aust. Army Training Team Vietnam). Later on classed as Sniper M21. I picked it up in 1972 for Au$250.00, less Scope and Bipod/ front handle; With dummy button on Selector mechanism . Now with scope, and bipod. Used as Movie Gun. DocAV
I was very excited to see this, as I have a beautiful E2 stock on my (semi-auto) M14. Mine is made of birch and I couldn't source the proper hardware, but the lines are gorgeous with the rubber buttpad and 6 o' clock rail from Treeline (also the source of the stock). In my opinion, it's more functional on semi-auto. Modernizing the E2 is a fun way to go. Marry wood with the new stock shapes and modern foregrips... red dots, suppressors, new muzzle brakes... Sexy and cool it is!
I was in the infantry in Germany in 1964-67, and they were issuing the M14e2. We had one per infantry squad, as I recall. (I was a medic). The lads were being taught to try for 3-round bursts, with all three rounds staying on a standard silhouette target at 200 yards or so. (that was the goal, anyway) I put a magazine through one at one of the ranges...Not a bad gun to shoot but as noted, the M60 machine gun was a better weapon for the LMG role.
You got that right Ian the M14 rifle is very very sexy! I was in the Navy February 91 to February 93 and we still used the M14 in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea I loved shooting that rifle!
if anyone plays Black Ops Zombies, this is the M14 in the first room. it's a semi auto but it's sitting in this type of stock with the pistol grip and folding for grip.
Not the coolest thing I've ever seen...mostly because I've seen an actual transferable machine gun M14E2 for sale. Alas, I can't afford to drop $20,000 on a gun, even one so cool as that.
In concept, it looks to me to be like the FN C2, which was used in the Canadian army from the end of the Enfield/Bren era, until the M16 family era. It was not a great gun, although I can see it was better than this thing. The C2 was basically the same as the FN C1 (a variant of the FAL), except it was full auto, had a heavy barrel, bipod, different sites and 30 rd mags. I think it was better than this m14 variant because the bipod folded up to become the fore stock. It was a decent bipod, and when deployed the entire barrel would be exposed for cooling. It was used as a section (ie squad) level LMG with one or two per section., so when it came out it replaced the Bren Gun. The Bren gun was a great weapon in my opinion, and the C2 was not so great. The Bren gun weighed about twice as much, but it had a quick change barrel. Other than to the person tasked to lug it around the extra weight and QCB were a huge bomus in an LMG. I know from personal experience with the C2 that after firing a few mags at a high rate of fire the gun got so hot that you no longer had control because of cook offs. At this point if you had a Bren you would change barrels. As anyone with experience with machine guns knows, barrels don't last that long. It doesn't take that long to burn them out and have rds going down range sideways. With it's great sites, bipod and heavy barrel the C2 would have been a good designated marksman type weapon in it's day, but withut a QCB, most of them had shot out barrels. Anyway, long story short, in concept this thing looks like the widely used FN C2 and similar FAL LMG variant.
That's why I call them 'Heavy Assault Rifles' instead of LMG, because they're basically ARs with longer barrels For me, an LMG is a rifle with at least 75 rounds per mag (Belt feeded or drum mag) that is not already an Assault rifle
The sling on this one is wrong, but not necessarily for the reason Ian stated. The actual sling meant for the M14E2 was a standard sling except it was longer, like almost six feet long if memory serves correctly, (we had a couple of them on both of my first two ships).
My FIL was issued one of these in 'Nam. They 'gave' it to him because he was 5'5" tall. he has pics of him with the gun and it is almost as long as he is tall!
Very interesting was back in the late 1970s and early 80s.An auto-rifleman was designated by having a bi-pod on his M16A1 in the infantry squad which had two with one per fire team before the SAW was issued to the infantry.I was in both mechanized infantry and airborne infantry.Mechanized infantry had an M-60 per squad as an AR (Automatic Rifle) in truth its a light machine gun per squad.In the airborne infantry units they had what i have mentioned previously and had two M-60s in their 4th or weapons squad.In airborne,air assault,and light infantry units bounced back in forth on the concept on how to use the M-60 as a SAW or M16A1.By 1988 when the Army had enough M249 SAWs the table of equipment had changed once again.Mechanized infantry had one saw per squad,airborne,air assault,and light infantry had two to each fire team.After Panama in 1990 all airborne,air assault,and light infantry units had been equipped with SAWs with the exception of most mechanized infantry by Desert Shield because the priority for the SAW was airborne and light infantry units.The SAW is an excellent weapon by my experience both in combat and training.The Marines have gone back in time to adopt the M27 Individual Automatic Rifle from H&K as a HK 416 variant of the M4.The only difference is that he will carry more magazines than belts which is more reliable as a system.
wow this is a very interesting firearm and as a weapons collector i definitely would love to own one, too bad i'm from Iraq which makes it impossibly difficult to get my hands on one.
The Marine Corps adopted the select fire M14s to replace the BAR in the 4 man fire-team. I don't know about the Army, but the Corps never seriously considered it as a substitute for a real light machine gun like the 1919 or M60.
Interesting, but what a ridiculous idea. We had just finished WW2/Korea and came up with this turd? The fact they even considered this as an option with the M60 being developed is absolutely ludacris.
The only reason the M14 exists is that someone higher up must've released a Garand bolt on their dick while they were defiling the gun (because they loved their 'good ol' M1 Guh-Rand' sooo much) so they decided to slap a box mag on it. And then lie to ordinance to get it accepted. And then get this accepted. And then adopting the still-troubled AR-15 a few years later. The military isn't exactly smart when it comes to adopting anything at all.
Not surprised. I never understood the concept of the BAR either. With such a limited ammo capacity, you spend more time reloading it than shooting it. Not very effective at laying down suppressive fire unless you have like 20 of them.
Borrowing pages from BAR developme t they could have increased the long range accuracy of the M14E2 by simply moving the bipod further forward. With the BAR they had to move the bipod further back to increase the beaten path at long range. They could have done the same trick in reverse for the M14E2. One can only speculate, but a possible reason they didn't do that was that somewhere up high there was someone who didn't like the M14E2 so that improvement was not tried.
Want to know what I think is really cool? Ian. That's what I think is really cool. Hope you're enjoying the holidays, hope you enjoy New Years even more than Christmas, and buddy, I think you would be a BLAST to get drunk with. CHEERS! By the way, I had a pony tail and goatee before I found out about you... but sadly and inevitably, of course, Ian pulls it off better than I can and possibly ever will. WOO! MAN I'm drunk!
seems we lagged pretty far behind in the squad automatic rifle category, for quite some time, esp if you compare to the ww2 mg34/mg42.by the 1960s, that we would still consider something with a 20 round box magazine seems rather bad
What they really needed to do was get the rate of fire down to around 400 rounds per minute. I heard of vets doing this by drilling a small hole in the gas plug, maybe they could have made some parts heavier to get the rpm down, like a heavier piston & operating rod.I don't see this competing against the m60 very well, but I wouldn't expect to see an m60 in a 4 man fire team do well there.
+Forgotten Weapons Wow, that was a fast response :) Thanks, it's always interesting to see some footage of these lesser known military guns actually being used in the field.
Didn't the E2 stabilizer, while drastically cutting down on recoil, somehow make the gun less accurate as well? This is what I've heard and read, but I could be wrong. Regardless of how it functions as a rifle, it is a damn sexy rifle.
lol I was thinking that, even has the foregrip and bipod. I hated them for adding this instead of a regular m14 but I guess it was somewhat historically accurate
Is it a notion to me that that barrel is bent upwards? Saw an FAL once with a bent barrel. Poor Dick, never could hit anything with it and considering that he was on active duty in South Lebanon with it.
I doubt the rifle was set up to be California compliant in any way. Not sure what is up with that muzzle break, but breaks are not illegal in California, however Flash Suppressors are. Also, the pistol grip, and the forward grip, when combined with the removable magazine make the rifle illegal in California anyway, so I doubt the break was set up in an attempt to be California compliant.
could you do a video on a HK G3 or a good semi auto clone if you see one? your insight on this rifle, a bit about the development, and how it compared to other rifles of the same era would be interesting.
+Forgotten Weapons Just gotta ask. Do you work for the Rock Island AH? Or how else do you get access to all of the goodies going up for sale? To me, it seems like you and FPSrussia has gotten your dreamjobs, getting to work with what you love. Also, any chance of trying to encourage a business idea of buying and importing used swedish M96 Mausers? Very interesting rifles and probably good money to be had, depending on transport costs and getting import/export-licenses. There are a ton of them around in Sweden, since the military sold them out cheap when they traded up for the H&K G3, with the idea that it was good that people owned weapons and supported people hunting and shooting for sport since it increased general accuracy training amongst the population (Sweden having a army based on conscription). So pretty much everyone who had a weapons license (very easy to get back then) bought one. But now, the swedish policy is that weapons is bad and people shouldn't be allowed to own weapons. Which means you are only allowed to own three rifles on a hunting license* and sporting licenses becoming harder and harder to get. And now, as people are dying of old age, having had old hunting licenses allowing them to own multiple weapons, almost always having a M96 Mauser amongst them, that means there is a large amount of M96 Mausers coming out on the swedish market and noone being allowed to buy them essentially (either by not having a weapons license, or by wanting some other weapons to fill those three allowed slots on a hunting license). Supply and Demand therefore makes even very good examples be extremely cheap. Looking at some online auctions of them, even very good examples are going for under US$100. So most of these nice old guns are now being either destroyed or plugged and made unusable. Kind of a shame for such a nice rifle that it actually is.
+Forgotten Weapons Oooh, and I almost forgot. As a Swede (obviously, as seen above), I would be greatly pleased if you could do a bit on the "Swedish K", the M/45 Carl-Gustav SMG. Or the coolest "Anti-tank rifle" of WWII, the M/42 Carl Gustav (might unfortunately be very hard to come by). Or even a bit on the (outside of US) unknown M63 Stoner.
Okay. If the M-16 is the AR-15, and the M-15 is a BAR Variant, and the M21 is a marksman/sniper variant of the M14, what are the M-17 to M-20 rifles? IIRC, the M21s were used in Vietnam, so they all would have been Vietnam-era rifles, right?
Reminds me of the stupid IAR concept the Marine corps loves though that doesn't seem like such a terrible rifle just not for its intended role, like the modern IAR.
+rambokicksass77 The Marines sure do have a goofy way of doing things and a history of financing/picking bad firearms... I used to think it was because the Army got a bigger budget/priority. But the Marines have a bigger budget than ever before and they still make bad decisions. Maybe they should just go back to the old days and let the Army trial guns/equipment and adopt whatever passes lol. +1 on the updated Stoner. Doesnt that company make a super lightweight modern lmg based on the same action? Why doesnt anyone field THAT?!
rambokicksass77 Thats exactly what im talking about man! Everything ive read says its quite possibly the most refined MG out there and improves on the 249, and the Corps still goes for the M27?? The military *already* tried LMGs fed from box mags... And I think that Colt 1911 they adopted is partly a publicity stunt, To claim theyre still using a 1911 or whatever... Not that I dont like 1911s, I love them, but are they really superior to other pistols in the same category? No. BTW my dad has a West German made Sig 220. Those are SWEET shooting guns man. I think the 227 or FNX would be a better choice. But whatever. The Marines are just as convoluted as the Army, at least the Army doesnt try to hide it LOL.
+rambokicksass77 The whole automatic rifleman thing is kind of stupid. If you want a weapon designed to primarily fire in full-auto mode, then you want a weapon firing from an open bolt. Trying to make a LMG out of a weapon or mechanism primarily designed for good accuracy in single-shot mode is just doomed to fail. The FN minimi is quite superior to any assault rifle converted to try to mimic a LMG. As Ian points out in the video, the M60 would run circles around the M14E2, and same goes for all other machine guns and assault rifle conversions trying to be a MG. IF you want a good LMG, you convert a MG into that role, not a assault rifle. As for the Stoner, don't know much about this new one, but the original Stoner 63 could be switched between firing in open bolt or closed, I think, just as the FG42, and depending on how exactly that worked, that might make for a good LMG. Depending on factors such as weight or costs too, something many people often fail to take into considerations. And an LMG WILL be heavier than a assault rifle, that's just the way it is, and the FN minimi (M249 SAW) is pretty damn good in the weight department actually. And some have even started adopting the FN Minimi in 7,62x51 configuration....
Filipe Amaral The question is though, do they like it for the LMG role? Or because their current enemies doesn't really require suppressive fire and assault rifles will do just as well and they actually prefer the M27 over the M16, rather than the M27 over the M249..... IE, would they be more or less happy if everyone got M27s, not just the automatic riflemen.... Keep in mind, soldiers don't actually do all that much fighting, generally it's just a lot of walking around carrying the stuff, it's not like movies and games where there is almost non-stop action, rather than a short firefight maybe every other week.
+Filipe Amaral From the one Marine I've talked to who has actually deployed with the m27, he actually liked it a lot. He said it was a good, reliable, very accurate m4 type rifle that they liked except they never used it as an lmg. This video reminded me of that conversation, this is probably a good gun as long as you don't use it as it was designed for.
Two ammo pouches with 2 magazines in each pouch plus one in the rifle for 5. That is in training. In combat, it would depend on the practices of your unit.
Finally, a mention of the M15. Truly a forgotten weapon.
i remember the m15. i tell people about it they think i'm having false memories. getting it confused. having a john kerry or joe biden moment.
Downunder back in the pre-Port Arthur days, I saw quite a few E2 stocks on M14 and M1A rifles. Probably at least a quarter of those in my service rifle shooting group (numbered more than 400 with about a third using M14/M1A rifles).
This is a very accurate history and overview of this weapon. One caveat. It was intended to be an automatic rifle, not a light machine gun, replacing the BAR, not the 1919A6. Comparing it to the M60 is just not relevant.
I trained on the M-14 in basic and infantry AIT at Ft Lewis Washington, September 1967-February 1968. In AIT we used the M14E2 / M14A1 for the "automatic rifle" part of the training and M60s for the "machine gun" component. Both were better weapons than they are often given credit for. At age 17, I was an experienced shooter and liked the M14 in general even though it was a very conservative modification of the M1.
I loved the M14E2. You had to learn to use the rear handgrip to seat the butt well against your shoulder and use the front grip to pull the weapon well down on the bipod. If you mastered three-round bursts, you could knock down target after target at 500 meters without a miss. Any more than four rounds in one burst and it was wasted ammo. It was very accurate in short bursts and extremely accurate on semi-auto. But it was hard to train completely inexperienced guys on it. I think at some of the ranges in Korea and Germany, it would have been much superior to the M16, at least with two per squad and the rest with m16s. But it was long and clumsy getting in and out of a M113 APC with it. And the ammunition and magazines were heavier than those of an M16. In Vietnam, at the ranges we were at in II Corps, the shorter effective range and less lethal round of the M16 were not a disadvantage. The M16 had its problems, but was a better weapon in Vietnam than the M14.
After BCT and Infantry AIT at Lewis, I went through jump school at Benning and was assigned to the 82nd two weeks before Martin Luther King was shot. I was in B/2/508. When King was killed, we flew up to Washington D.C. for riot duty. The squad I was in guarded a bank and a liquor store on South Capitol Street, just north of the bridge over the Anacostia River, a few blocks from Ft. McNair. We were armed with M16s, but I was told to turn mine in to the arms room and I drew a good old M14E2. There was fear of "black radicals" acting as snipers and I was the platoon's designated "anti-sniper sharpshooter." I had fired Expert with the M14, M14E2 and M60 at Lewis and I guess that was on my Form 20. So I guarded the liquor store with the 14E2 and later a refrigerated warehouse near the FBI headquarters. No one in our company fired a single round the whole time we were there. The first two nights, the African-American grannies in the run-down tenements a block west of S. Capitol brought us hot food because all we had was C-rations.
The Maryland National Guard, which went in right away, was full of week-end warriors who were mostly students at the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins. They were scared whizless and fired off hundreds of rounds the first two nights. The 82nd was made up of 19-year olds who thought they were really tough. And we had a lot of poor blacks in our company. They were on their home turf. Other units said that the "AA" shoulder patch of the 82nd stood for "Almost-African" rather than "All-American." But we had fire discipline. I was told that all the companies from the 82nd together fired a total of less than 20 rounds. The National Guard units fired many hundreds, mostly because they did not have the naive self-confidence we in "the division" did.
p.s., I have not been back to South Capitol Street since 2002 or so, when I took my son to the museum at the Washington naval yard a few blocks to the east., but the liquor store was still there and still in business. You ordered through a slot in a thick glass window and got your order via a pass-through. The old ramshackle wood tenements had been replaced with really grim public housing. If anyone has been to that area more recently, I'd like to know if it is still open.
Joseph Blowsma that was a good read. Thanks
Thanks for your story and information on the M14E2. I was fortunate enough to purchase the same setups that FW is auctioning. Thank you for your service and welcome home.
Thank you for the post. It was a good read, always interesting to hear 82nd history. I was a 504th PIR man myself.
AATW!
Yeah. In the summer of '70 I was going to Ordnance School in Quantico and one of our weekend passes was put on hold because they thought they might need us on Riot Duty in D. C. but it didn't happen and they let us go.
I remember watching a grunt platoon out on the parade ground practicing their Stomp & Step, advancing one bit at a time with fixed bayonets but they didn't have us do that.
Yeah ... the National Guard units just don't have the fire discipline of Regular Military and certainly not that of elite units. Thus Kent State ...
One thing about Kent State though - is that shooting at people to draw their fire onto innocents - was in fact Communist Doctrine. They used it repeatedly in Vietnam and they had used it to start WWII at the Marco Polo Bridge incident in the summer of '37 in China. So - I don't know if the NG unit at Kent State WAS actually fired on - but - it is exactly the kind of thing Communists would do - with exactly the result that they would want.
.
My early time in the army matches your months exactly, except it was Ft Polk, Ft Leonard Wood, then a little farther north on Smoke Bomb Hill. Did you ever meet Nicky Gillespie?
Walked away from one of these in a friends gun store back in the 80's. $350. Not one of my better days.
Well that was a fuck up :/
In 1967 I qualified sharpshooter with the M-14 rifle, expert with the M-60 machine gun in field fire (bipod), marksman with the M-60 (tripod), and marksman with the M-14E2. The E2 was difficult to control so as to get tight & accurate 2-3 round bursts. The forward handgrip is adjustable for arm length. There are 3 positioning holes in the stock that it can be attached via. The rifle I had to shoot with was on the furthest out (long arm) setting while my arms are short. We weren't given an opportunity to make any adjustments. He doesn't show it here but the sling can be wrapped around your back and shoulder, and that helps control muzzle rise on full auto. Using the sling and with the front handgrip in the right hole, I could do well with this weapon. The 7.62 round is good for blasting through the jungle, but where it comes into it's own is against longer range targets, against which it is more effective than the M-16.
Interestingly because of fighting in places like Afghanistan they are now reassessing the 5.56 because it lacks the range needed to engage the Taliban fully.
@@bigblue6917 5.56 can hit targets at 500 yards. Past 500 yards I doubt you'll hit much without a dedicated DMR.
My Grampa was in a jungle base near Bien Hua Vietnam, he was issued an M-14 although, his captain actually didn't issue any bullets because that captain refused to answer the night guard one night and got himself shot at. That was always one of his favorite stories to tell about his time over there.
@@feedthemeat543f I found it very hard to hit targets over 300 meters with an M-16. I fired the M-16A1 for record in '71 and qualified expert during the day phase, in the night phase marksman.
@@tonygumbrell22 The A2s the Marines and later the Army got had better sights for range. Click-adjustable between 300-800 meters on the M16A2 in 25 meter increments. The modern detachable carry handles only go out from 300-600 meters.
M16A1 had the flip sights that either were two range settings or one with a large ghost ring for use with tritium night sights.
A2 had only the latter option, though had much better range adjustability. This was from Lt. Col. Lutz USMC (Ret.) who was in charge of the M16A2 program, and added those sights so that, assuming they're trained for it (which Marines were, but not the Army), a squad leader could better use the riflemen as a base of fire by telling them the target and range and firing on command and whatnot. This was from his experience about that very same thing, where as a platoon leader in Vietnam, where the M16A1s with the sights you mentioned had difficulty laying a base of fire without those adjustable sights when there's a couple of VC blasting away at 400 meters with their SKS.
Of course, everyone now has ACOG scopes or whatever other new scope they've adopted, which probably means you can get those hits much further away than you could with the precisely one or two range settings on the M16A1.
I never quite understood the reasoning behind trying to make a squad automatic weapon with a ~20 round capacity.
+ToastyMozart Well, I'm thinking it was to determine what was best for the role. You always need to try something different. Maybe it wasn't so obvious to them as it to us now knowing what we know.
+ToastyMozart During Korean war, the BAR was used as a suppressing fire weapon. Basically the shooter would just reload and keep shooting large amount of ammunition randomly at the target and the other members would come to the side and finish the job.
That's basically where the concept came from. The idea is to have a heavier barrel, a stable base, and being able to just sit someone and shoot large volume of fire at something. Normal M1A has a lighter barrel and although it could function well in the same role, it would degrade faster and not be as stable.
+ToastyMozart Almost as bad as the British L86 LSW...... an intermediate caliber assault rifle is not suitable for a light support weapon even with a heavy barrel.
Why didn't they order 45 caliber glocks? Or are they so fudd level that the word "45" means 1911 to them?
ToastyMozart #BAR
2:01 Look, its the "shoulder thing that goes up." Its real!
+Ionracas85 the shoulder shroud lives!
+Ionracas85 quick hide the children.
Run 'away !!
+Ionracas85 OH MY GOD!
+Ionracas85 That was also my first thought lol
Ian;
One of the U.S. Army units I was in had six E2 variants, still in the original configuration in the early 80s. We also had several M-14A1s, with the receivers remarked to reflect the A1 designation. However, all of the rifles so marked, as M-14A1, were formerly select fire rifles, as issued M-14s, but with the full auto capability removed, and all the full auto parts removed. The selector switch gap in the stocks were either plugged, or entirely new Walnut stocks without the selector switch cutout installed.
I was always told that the designation M-14A1 referred only to original issue M-14s, that had been deselected, IE lost full auto capability.
I had an opportunity to work on, and function test fire many of these rifles. One other feature that our E2s had that was not included in the version in your video, we had a 2lb weight that could be hung from the bipod by the front sling swivel. While the additional weight helped, it wasn't really enough, and was often "lost" in the field by actual users. On the E2s in this unit, the sling swivel on the bipod was only used for hanging the additional weight, and a standard front sling swivel was attached to the fore end of the E-2 stock.
Another feature you may not have been aware of, is that the collapsable fore grip can be moved into any one of the several mounting holes on the underside of the fore end of the stock. Small rubber plugs were provided to close off all the holes not used in the mounting of the grip, to reduce dirt/debris contamination inside the stock/action.
Keep up the good work!
SFC Bruce R. Gadbois
U.S. Army
I've been tossing around building one of these. Those foregrips are like freaking moon rocks
The M14 in CoD: Black Ops looks like this and shoots only in semi.
BTW, the game takes place in the 60's but many weapons in the game aren't invented by then.
+rambokicksass77
But the power of various weapons in pretty much all computer games are total bogus....
Being shot by a M1911 is just as likely to kill you as being shot by a M16.
As someone knowledgeable in things once said "Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and the rest is just angels dancing on the head of pins".
Weapon damages, ranges, accuracy etc are just there for game balance reasons, and have little to do with actual reality.
For example, most military assault rifles have the same accuracy, which isn't improved for normal ranges with a scope (nor does a scope increase damage, or make a 7,62x51 Sniper Rifle do way more damage than a 7,62x51 assault rifle with the very same barrel length).
For most military standard assault rifles, the deciding factor is instead the ammunition. Since standard military ammo is produced to be cheap and reliable rather than accurate, so whatever differences there are in accuracy between rifles are negated by that simple fact.
Snipers use specific match ammo, manufactured to higher standards for better accuracy.
Also, putting a scope on a weapon doesn't make you a better shot....and the difference between a sniper and a rifleman isn't the weapon itself, but also the actual skill in using it....Give your average rifleman a sniper rifle that is capable of reliably putting rounds into a target the size of a human head at half a mile, and he would be unlikely to even hit that target at that distance....
And I didn't even mention shotguns....Man...Shotguns in computer games....
Magical weapons that do tremendous damage if you are really close, but whose bullets apparently drop in kinetic energy like it was fired in jello or something.
At 15 meters (50 feet), shotguns barely do any damage, and at ranges over 30 meters (100 feet), their pellets apparently evaporates into thin air.
Which is kinda unlike real shotguns, which works just fine at those ranges.....And often even have sight set for things like 100 meters...clearly ridiculous distances for a shotgun, according to first person shooters....
@@nehcrum Rising Storm Vietnam doesn't have that kind of weapon handling. The only gun you usually need two shots up close for is the makarov (if you don't hit anything important) and you can basically snipe with the hunting shotgun
I remember the E2 being featured in an article written in a gun magazine back in 1966 (I was 12)...I thought it was the most awesome looking rifle EVER...say what you will about m14's I've always enjoyed and done well with them on the range...
Your vids help me sleep at night. keep them coming.
My version of the modern semi-auto M14E2 utilizes a rigid, standard profile 4 groove 16.25" barrel with a 1:10 ROT. The stock is a new USGI Birch that I finished. It wears a light weight ventilated aluminum railed hand guard topped by an Aimpoint Comp M4. The rifle is accurate & reliable, and I have set it up to accept a bi pod, a 50 round drum magazine, and a sound suppressor. Easily a favorite of the many M14s I have built.
Never heard of this gun before. Pretty neat.
itsthatsebguy93 I was reading about it in a book yesterday.
Seems like putting this pistol grip stock on all the M14s would've been a good idea, if the M14 hadn't been replaced so quickly.
+itsthatsebguy93 In the Season 1 finale of The A-Team; during Faceman's flashback scene at the funeral the A-Team is attending (Which is basically stock footage shot during the Vietnam War) ; An NVA Soldier can be seen firing the full auto version. This was the first time I'd ever seen the weapon.
I went through Basic and AIT at Ft. Jackson, SC in summer of 1965. In AIT, I was in the 11C platoon. We were all told to draw E2s for the squad drills and integrate with the 11B squads…which we didn’t. We all formed infantry squads with everyone carrying E2. Boy! Did we lay down a base of fire!
I love your videos! A friend introduced me to your channel. I have little knowledge of guns and you explain everything in such detail, thanks! Definitely gonna follow all your future videos. Great collection btw!
What a joke. It's not even made of skeletonized white or OD aluminum. Not high speed, not low drag, how am I supposed to operate with this? There's not even a scope for me to ignore when I 360 no scope. What, am I supposed to 360 no irons? 2/10 would not bang or pew. In all seriousness, great video Ian, congrats on the successful crowd funding campaign, can't wait for the pancor!
Ian watching this video I really think you need to do a combination video with Larry Vickers. He has done some fascinating videos about historical guns like the Stoner 63 and the M60E4.
+Fedaykin24 I would love to - I have talked with him, but he's on the other side of the country and nothing has worked out yet.
+Forgotten Weapons Can you do a review of a La France M14k
"Ooooh, you've got it redecorated...! I don't like it..." Patrick Troughton
I carried an auto toggle M14 during my 22 months in Viet Nam. It was configured like the semi auto M14 and was not difficult to control. I did see one M14 configured like your display model.
I assembled one on a Polytech receiver, from parts I found in trade magazines, gun shows and classifieds, BEFORE the internet. Its my favorite piece. The stock was the hardest to find in UN-issued cond., $300.00. Had the option for an highly illegal re-welded auto capable TRW receiver for 300.00. STILL kicking myself.
The little cylinder on the side is actually the selector lock, and is on all M14s. For FA, it was replaced with the actual selector switch.
Springfield Armory marketed an E2 kit as a catalogue item as late as the mid-90s. I bought my personal M1A while working for a distributor, and he had one in stock. While cool, I wanted a rifle as close as possible to the M14 I trained with at Marine Corps OCS back in '75.
Amusingly, at one point, the M14 was supposed to replace not only the M1 and BAR, but also the M2 carbine AND the M3 subgun!!
We shall remember the truly forgotten weapon - the M15! 🥺
One of the few actual gun experts out here. Very respectable. I wish I had his knowledge and his job. The man's a genius. Also rare to see a gun guy who doesn't act like guns adds inches his ego. Best gun channel on UA-cam. Kentucky Ballistics is my second favorite. Check him out. He's funny as hell.
Comparing the M14a1/e2 to the M60 is like comparing the BAR to the M1919, or the FG42 to the MG42. In fact, the M14a1 was just meant to be a BAR replacement, a full auto/short burst/full caliber automatic rifle in a fire team of semi-auto riflemen., not a platoon level support weapon. M14a1 would have been a breakthrough in the bolt-action rifle 1940's, but was much less relevant in the assault rifle 1960's.
You have no idea how many times I've used that exact line with my wife. " but honey I can't live without " fill in the blank" gun".
Yes ,I can keep you safe if the bad guys show up !
"all of these things helped, none of them helped enough" it me
I love those ventilated handguards.
Cool video Ian. Ive read about these and seen pictures (the old B&W book ones, so detail is bad) So its very cool to see this up close and with your usual excellent commentary. The Army sure was fascinated with the idea of a rifle turned into an LMG lol. Im just surprised it took them so long to realize something needed to fill the void between gpmg and rifle.
I for one am surprised at the 1600-2250 estimate. Way lower than I would have guessed!
The thing that catches my eye is the angles on that stock. Maybe its just me, but it looks kinda thin and could possibly split at the wrist?
Only 1600-2250... Thats cheap as for it :(
I hate Australias gun laws.
+TheKodiak72 Why, don't they allow full auto weapons at all? Not even with the proper registration and licensing? That's a bit odd. I've seen people in New Zealand with Anti-Tank Rifles; and they are allowed to shoot them.
+TheKilroyman As a regular citizen here you can't own a semi auto, have to have specific licenses for a pistol. Semi auto pistols cannot be above .40 cal without special reasons like metal silhouette competition shooting. To have a semi auto rifle or semi / pump shotgun shooting pest animals must be your main form of income. In NZ you can own any semi auto but you require a different license to own military semi autos which are not hard to get if you are a member of a sporting club that shoots in military rifle comps or if you collect them.
Why are Aussie Gun Laws so terrible?
+TheKilroyman Australia's gun laws are so bad because in 1996 there was a terrible mass shooting, so the government decided to have a gun buyback program, destroyed and banned all guns. The only guns that are in Australia are either military or illegally never turned in.
I guess it was for the public's safety, I suppose.
I had a book on 20th century weapons, and in it was the USA M-15 SQUAD AUTOMATIC RIFLE. All M-14 could be select fire rifle, this is possible by a small disc on its receiver, that a switch could be placed on the receiver.
My Winchester M14E2 had the longer sling w/hook, the front grip DID lock into place, a steel liner to prevent the wooden fore arm from scorching (I obtained this after pumping through 5 mags on auto). The auto switch was skinnier than the knob shown and mine had an "A" indicating auto fire. Accuracy at 300m was not the best with 30% hits on short bursts. Still fun to shoot.
During the early 70s, I acquired a M14E2 ( US AMTU BUILD) H&R RECEIVER brought back from SVN by a member of the AATTV ( Aust. Army Training Team Vietnam).
Later on classed as Sniper M21.
I picked it up in 1972 for Au$250.00, less Scope and Bipod/ front handle;
With dummy button on Selector mechanism . Now with scope, and bipod. Used as Movie Gun.
DocAV
I was very excited to see this, as I have a beautiful E2 stock on my (semi-auto) M14. Mine is made of birch and I couldn't source the proper hardware, but the lines are gorgeous with the rubber buttpad and 6 o' clock rail from Treeline (also the source of the stock). In my opinion, it's more functional on semi-auto. Modernizing the E2 is a fun way to go. Marry wood with the new stock shapes and modern foregrips... red dots, suppressors, new muzzle brakes... Sexy and cool it is!
I was in the infantry in Germany in 1964-67, and they were issuing the M14e2. We had one per infantry squad, as I recall. (I was a medic). The lads were being taught to try for 3-round bursts, with all three rounds staying on a standard silhouette target at 200 yards or so. (that was the goal, anyway)
I put a magazine through one at one of the ranges...Not a bad gun to shoot but as noted, the M60 machine gun was a better weapon for the LMG role.
What a great looking rifle!
But, how much sustained fire can you deliver with a 20 rd. magazine?
You got that right Ian the M14 rifle is very very sexy! I was in the Navy February 91 to February 93 and we still used the M14 in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea I loved shooting that rifle!
if anyone plays Black Ops Zombies, this is the M14 in the first room. it's a semi auto but it's sitting in this type of stock with the pistol grip and folding for grip.
Not the coolest thing I've ever seen...mostly because I've seen an actual transferable machine gun M14E2 for sale. Alas, I can't afford to drop $20,000 on a gun, even one so cool as that.
The sling was specially made for this weapon. It was much longer than a standard sling and as mentioned had two hooks.
In concept, it looks to me to be like the FN C2, which was used in the Canadian army from the end of the Enfield/Bren era, until the M16 family era. It was not a great gun, although I can see it was better than this thing. The C2 was basically the same as the FN C1 (a variant of the FAL), except it was full auto, had a heavy barrel, bipod, different sites and 30 rd mags. I think it was better than this m14 variant because the bipod folded up to become the fore stock. It was a decent bipod, and when deployed the entire barrel would be exposed for cooling.
It was used as a section (ie squad) level LMG with one or two per section., so when it came out it replaced the Bren Gun. The Bren gun was a great weapon in my opinion, and the C2 was not so great. The Bren gun weighed about twice as much, but it had a quick change barrel. Other than to the person tasked to lug it around the extra weight and QCB were a huge bomus in an LMG. I know from personal experience with the C2 that after firing a few mags at a high rate of fire the gun got so hot that you no longer had control because of cook offs. At this point if you had a Bren you would change barrels. As anyone with experience with machine guns knows, barrels don't last that long. It doesn't take that long to burn them out and have rds going down range sideways. With it's great sites, bipod and heavy barrel the C2 would have been a good designated marksman type weapon in it's day, but withut a QCB, most of them had shot out barrels.
Anyway, long story short, in concept this thing looks like the widely used FN C2 and similar FAL LMG variant.
Was there a M14E2A2 that had a non folding wooden pistol grip on the fore stock? I remember something like that in Vietnam.
Searched for this for ages after playing Black Ops 2 Zombies
The problem with all rifle style light MGs : " suppressing fir...*out of ammo, didn't come close to hitting anything*
+hblu Depends on how you use that ammo.
That's why I call them 'Heavy Assault Rifles' instead of LMG, because they're basically ARs with longer barrels
For me, an LMG is a rifle with at least 75 rounds per mag (Belt feeded or drum mag) that is not already an Assault rifle
+Nazariel what bout Bren guns? Or Type 96s/Type 99s? Or DP-28s? Or RPKs? Or ZB. 28s? Or Madsens? Or Lewis guns?
The Fg42 would like a word.
it was in Black Ops 1 !
The sling on this one is wrong, but not necessarily for the reason Ian stated. The actual sling meant for the M14E2 was a standard sling except it was longer, like almost six feet long if memory serves correctly, (we had a couple of them on both of my first two ships).
Thanks, I always appreciate your videos.
The concept behind this gun and the M15 reminds me a bit of the Canadian C2 variant of the FN FAL
This looks like what the M14 in Call of Duty Black Ops must have been based on. I'd love to have an M14/M1A some time.
You're right, it's the same rifle.
My FIL was issued one of these in 'Nam. They 'gave' it to him because he was 5'5" tall. he has pics of him with the gun and it is almost as long as he is tall!
Very interesting was back in the late 1970s and early 80s.An auto-rifleman was designated by having a bi-pod on his M16A1 in the infantry squad which had two with one per fire team before the SAW was issued to the infantry.I was in both mechanized infantry and airborne infantry.Mechanized infantry had an M-60 per squad as an AR (Automatic Rifle) in truth its a light machine gun per squad.In the airborne infantry units they had what i have mentioned previously and had two M-60s in their 4th or weapons squad.In airborne,air assault,and light infantry units bounced back in forth on the concept on how to use the M-60 as a SAW or M16A1.By 1988 when the Army had enough M249 SAWs the table of equipment had changed once again.Mechanized infantry had one saw per squad,airborne,air assault,and light infantry had two to each fire team.After Panama in 1990 all airborne,air assault,and light infantry units had been equipped with SAWs with the exception of most mechanized infantry by Desert Shield because the priority for the SAW was airborne and light infantry units.The SAW is an excellent weapon by my experience both in combat and training.The Marines have gone back in time to adopt the M27 Individual Automatic Rifle from H&K as a HK 416 variant of the M4.The only difference is that he will carry more magazines than belts which is more reliable as a system.
I cannot wait for the Pancor video
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wow this is a very interesting firearm and as a weapons collector i definitely would love to own one, too bad i'm from Iraq which makes it impossibly difficult to get my hands on one.
The Marine Corps adopted the select fire M14s to replace the BAR in the 4 man fire-team. I don't know about the Army, but the Corps never seriously considered it as a substitute for a real light machine gun like the 1919 or M60.
Hey Ian, how often do you yourself buy the guns you profile?
Interesting, but what a ridiculous idea. We had just finished WW2/Korea and came up with this turd? The fact they even considered this as an option with the M60 being developed is absolutely ludacris.
The only reason the M14 exists is that someone higher up must've released a Garand bolt on their dick while they were defiling the gun (because they loved their 'good ol' M1 Guh-Rand' sooo much) so they decided to slap a box mag on it. And then lie to ordinance to get it accepted. And then get this accepted. And then adopting the still-troubled AR-15 a few years later.
The military isn't exactly smart when it comes to adopting anything at all.
got one a those stocks laying around somewhere, it's light birch color
I want one of these so, so badly...
Didn't the M-60 fill the roll of squad automatic weapon during this time period?
So why the M-14E2 ?
It did, but only because the M14E2 was a failure. In theory, the M14E2 was supposed to replace the BAR and the M60 would replace the M1919.
Not surprised. I never understood the concept of the BAR either. With such a limited ammo capacity, you spend more time reloading it than shooting it.
Not very effective at laying down suppressive fire unless you have like 20 of them.
From what I remember, the M60 was just supposed to be a utility machine gun. Not designed to be a dedicated squad automatic weapon.
heirofaniu the bar was the exact same in ww2 as ww2 except they put a lot of heavy awkward junk on it
The same reason we have a m249 SAW when the 240 bravo replaced the m60, why do we need the SAW?
There is color CBS news footage of Red Dan Rather in vietnam in 1966 with 2 US army soldiers firing M14E2's in the background behind him.
I just bought of of these stocks with all the bits still on it. I am putting a polytech M14-s in it.
So thats what was used in bo1!
Love me some M14!
Borrowing pages from BAR developme t they could have increased the long range accuracy of the M14E2 by simply moving the bipod further forward. With the BAR they had to move the bipod further back to increase the beaten path at long range. They could have done the same trick in reverse for the M14E2. One can only speculate, but a possible reason they didn't do that was that somewhere up high there was someone who didn't like the M14E2 so that improvement was not tried.
Want to know what I think is really cool? Ian. That's what I think is really cool. Hope you're enjoying the holidays, hope you enjoy New Years even more than Christmas, and buddy, I think you would be a BLAST to get drunk with. CHEERS! By the way, I had a pony tail and goatee before I found out about you... but sadly and inevitably, of course, Ian pulls it off better than I can and possibly ever will. WOO! MAN I'm drunk!
Interesting that the Army is comparing weapons design for two different roles. The Army did not use the M60 in the SAW role.
seems we lagged pretty far behind in the squad automatic rifle category, for quite some time, esp if you compare to the ww2 mg34/mg42.by the 1960s, that we would still consider something with a 20 round box magazine seems rather bad
What they really needed to do was get the rate of fire down to around 400 rounds per minute. I heard of vets doing this by drilling a small hole in the gas plug, maybe they could have made some parts heavier to get the rpm down, like a heavier piston & operating rod.I don't see this competing against the m60 very well, but I wouldn't expect to see an m60 in a 4 man fire team do well there.
Anyone have a link of the Vietnam footage being refered to by Ian?
+kolemijn ua-cam.com/video/RrWqf3CQrDY/v-deo.html
+Forgotten Weapons Wow, that was a fast response :) Thanks, it's always interesting to see some footage of these lesser known military guns actually being used in the field.
+gwgn02 I'll take your word for it; I've never watched either of them.
Ian, how about a video on the MAG58/M240?
+762gunr I am doubtful he could get his hands on one, I don't put it past him, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
+762gunr A gun still in active service would be a little outside the normal scope of this channel.
Oh yeah? He has done the M16 which was designed AFTER the FN MAG.
Buddy just picked up a Springfield m1a for 1420$ and he plans on doing exactly this to it
without the pistol grip and the front grip was practically a M1928 B.A.R.
Didn't the E2 stabilizer, while drastically cutting down on recoil, somehow make the gun less accurate as well? This is what I've heard and read, but I could be wrong. Regardless of how it functions as a rifle, it is a damn sexy rifle.
so this is the clone they used in the Black Ops game, same pistol grip and everything.
7:52 A e S t H e T i C
lol I was thinking that, even has the foregrip and bipod. I hated them for adding this instead of a regular m14 but I guess it was somewhat historically accurate
love your videos keep up the cool work.
Wrong sling, but besides that, a sweet rifle. I have one exactly like it, except it's an LRB, so it has the forged receiver and USGI parts.
was kinda hoping you would call it the shoulder thing that goes up.
Is it a notion to me that that barrel is bent upwards? Saw an FAL once with a bent barrel. Poor Dick, never could hit anything with it and considering that he was on active duty in South Lebanon with it.
That would NOT be what the selector switch looked like. That is what an m14 converted to semi by the military would look like.
Love your videos! It would be awesome if you could do a video on the Borchardt B93.
Did the M14E2 have a ventilated barrel, which differered from a standard M14?
I doubt the rifle was set up to be California compliant in any way. Not sure what is up with that muzzle break, but breaks are not illegal in California, however Flash Suppressors are. Also, the pistol grip, and the forward grip, when combined with the removable magazine make the rifle illegal in California anyway, so I doubt the break was set up in an attempt to be California compliant.
Looks likes it would make a damn good Precision Rifle.
Calling it obsolete before it was in service is what should have happened to the M14
could you do a video on a HK G3 or a good semi auto clone if you see one? your insight on this rifle, a bit about the development, and how it compared to other rifles of the same era would be interesting.
This was in Call of Duty: Black Ops
I guess the real question is, if the M-60 ran circles around this in trials (which I don't doubt), why were any of these produced at all?
it looks nice as a sniper instead of a saw type of thing....
greetings from holland.
+stijnVDA1994 I assume you mean DMR, sniper would not fit this things role as well.
true true
Any chance on you getting your hands on Lahti-Saloranta M26? It's such a cool and somewhat rare LMG. Your videos are awesome, I love them!
+ActorTimo If I can find one...they are not common in the US.
+Forgotten Weapons
Just gotta ask. Do you work for the Rock Island AH? Or how else do you get access to all of the goodies going up for sale?
To me, it seems like you and FPSrussia has gotten your dreamjobs, getting to work with what you love.
Also, any chance of trying to encourage a business idea of buying and importing used swedish M96 Mausers? Very interesting rifles and probably good money to be had, depending on transport costs and getting import/export-licenses.
There are a ton of them around in Sweden, since the military sold them out cheap when they traded up for the H&K G3, with the idea that it was good that people owned weapons and supported people hunting and shooting for sport since it increased general accuracy training amongst the population (Sweden having a army based on conscription).
So pretty much everyone who had a weapons license (very easy to get back then) bought one.
But now, the swedish policy is that weapons is bad and people shouldn't be allowed to own weapons. Which means you are only allowed to own three rifles on a hunting license* and sporting licenses becoming harder and harder to get.
And now, as people are dying of old age, having had old hunting licenses allowing them to own multiple weapons, almost always having a M96 Mauser amongst them, that means there is a large amount of M96 Mausers coming out on the swedish market and noone being allowed to buy them essentially (either by not having a weapons license, or by wanting some other weapons to fill those three allowed slots on a hunting license). Supply and Demand therefore makes even very good examples be extremely cheap.
Looking at some online auctions of them, even very good examples are going for under US$100.
So most of these nice old guns are now being either destroyed or plugged and made unusable.
Kind of a shame for such a nice rifle that it actually is.
+Forgotten Weapons
Oooh, and I almost forgot.
As a Swede (obviously, as seen above), I would be greatly pleased if you could do a bit on the "Swedish K", the M/45 Carl-Gustav SMG.
Or the coolest "Anti-tank rifle" of WWII, the M/42 Carl Gustav (might unfortunately be very hard to come by).
Or even a bit on the (outside of US) unknown M63 Stoner.
@@nehcrum He has a video on The M/42 anti-tank rifle. :)
But yes, I'd love to see the M/45 Swedish K as a fellow Swede.
@@@guzzoscorner
Yes, he does have a video on it. Now.
The video is one year old and my post above is three years old.
I carried a M-14 E2. It had a 26” bbl.
M15s were made, talk to Force Recon guys in NAM. They did get used
M14 gang.
Okay. If the M-16 is the AR-15, and the M-15 is a BAR Variant, and the M21 is a marksman/sniper variant of the M14, what are the M-17 to M-20 rifles? IIRC, the M21s were used in Vietnam, so they all would have been Vietnam-era rifles, right?
This M14 looks very...familiar...
Enjoyed the video.
.308 automatic rifles should use a 2rd-burst instead of being replaced totally
Reminds me of the stupid IAR concept the Marine corps loves though that doesn't seem like such a terrible rifle just not for its intended role, like the modern IAR.
+rambokicksass77 The Marines sure do have a goofy way of doing things and a history of financing/picking bad firearms... I used to think it was because the Army got a bigger budget/priority. But the Marines have a bigger budget than ever before and they still make bad decisions. Maybe they should just go back to the old days and let the Army trial guns/equipment and adopt whatever passes lol.
+1 on the updated Stoner. Doesnt that company make a super lightweight modern lmg based on the same action? Why doesnt anyone field THAT?!
rambokicksass77 Thats exactly what im talking about man! Everything ive read says its quite possibly the most refined MG out there and improves on the 249, and the Corps still goes for the M27?? The military *already* tried LMGs fed from box mags...
And I think that Colt 1911 they adopted is partly a publicity stunt, To claim theyre still using a 1911 or whatever... Not that I dont like 1911s, I love them, but are they really superior to other pistols in the same category? No.
BTW my dad has a West German made Sig 220. Those are SWEET shooting guns man. I think the 227 or FNX would be a better choice. But whatever. The Marines are just as convoluted as the Army, at least the Army doesnt try to hide it LOL.
+rambokicksass77
The whole automatic rifleman thing is kind of stupid.
If you want a weapon designed to primarily fire in full-auto mode, then you want a weapon firing from an open bolt.
Trying to make a LMG out of a weapon or mechanism primarily designed for good accuracy in single-shot mode is just doomed to fail.
The FN minimi is quite superior to any assault rifle converted to try to mimic a LMG.
As Ian points out in the video, the M60 would run circles around the M14E2, and same goes for all other machine guns and assault rifle conversions trying to be a MG.
IF you want a good LMG, you convert a MG into that role, not a assault rifle.
As for the Stoner, don't know much about this new one, but the original Stoner 63 could be switched between firing in open bolt or closed, I think, just as the FG42, and depending on how exactly that worked, that might make for a good LMG.
Depending on factors such as weight or costs too, something many people often fail to take into considerations.
And an LMG WILL be heavier than a assault rifle, that's just the way it is, and the FN minimi (M249 SAW) is pretty damn good in the weight department actually.
And some have even started adopting the FN Minimi in 7,62x51 configuration....
Filipe Amaral
The question is though, do they like it for the LMG role? Or because their current enemies doesn't really require suppressive fire and assault rifles will do just as well and they actually prefer the M27 over the M16, rather than the M27 over the M249.....
IE, would they be more or less happy if everyone got M27s, not just the automatic riflemen....
Keep in mind, soldiers don't actually do all that much fighting, generally it's just a lot of walking around carrying the stuff, it's not like movies and games where there is almost non-stop action, rather than a short firefight maybe every other week.
+Filipe Amaral From the one Marine I've talked to who has actually deployed with the m27, he actually liked it a lot. He said it was a good, reliable, very accurate m4 type rifle that they liked except they never used it as an lmg. This video reminded me of that conversation, this is probably a good gun as long as you don't use it as it was designed for.
What is the reasoning behind California not allowing a muzzle brake?
Probably because it makes it easier to control under higher rates of fire.
it looks scary, thats it
Muzzle Break is legal, but flash-hider is not.
What was the standard amount of mags to carry with the M14E2/M14A1?
Two ammo pouches with 2 magazines in each pouch plus one in the rifle for 5. That is in training. In combat, it would depend on the practices of your unit.
california compliant muzzle device... jesus
the black ops 1 m14