Did the First Triumvirate Destroy the Roman Republic?

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  • Опубліковано 24 гру 2024

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  • @tribunateSPQR
    @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +47

    Did the First Triumvirate end the Roman Republic? Let us know what you think!

    • @Ancient__Wisdom
      @Ancient__Wisdom Рік тому +8

      I used to think so! Now I'm not so sure....

    • @CBrace527
      @CBrace527 Рік тому +15

      The Republic was dead decades before the Triumvirate - they were just the first to realize it

    • @Saurophaganax1931
      @Saurophaganax1931 Рік тому +13

      I know that the republic had already broken down to violence in the streets and, if it wasn’t Caesar, then someone else further down the line would probably, inevitably, have dealt the death blow; but I will never miss an opportunity to shit on Cato. That idiot. He beat down and rejected any and all possible compromises between the Caesarian and Pompeyan factions in an attempt to drive Caesar into a corner where either civil war or political ruin would be the only choices left to him, and then he had the gull to act surprised when Caesar chose the former. He is the kind of person that the surprised pikachu face was made for, except tens of thousands of people had to die for his fsiled political calculus.

    • @Saurophaganax1931
      @Saurophaganax1931 Рік тому +7

      There were so many opportunities to prevent the civil war. So many potential off ramps to avoid the approaching calamity; and Cato squashed every. single. one of them.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +5

      This is our perspective as well - our video on the Rubicon crossing goes into this in greater detail: ua-cam.com/video/ukxPaWaNUWk/v-deo.html
      Cato was not just a fool but a terrible person as well, we're going to be making more content that knocks him down a peg.

  • @chrisrubin6445
    @chrisrubin6445 9 місяців тому +206

    One of the worst mistakes people make about this period of history is conflating "The Senate" with "The Republic".

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  9 місяців тому +63

      Fully agree, the conflation is inevitable since Senates is so central to many modern republics but in reality it was just one aspect of the roman state and represented elite opinion

    • @laisphinto6372
      @laisphinto6372 6 місяців тому +6

      My Guy they Senate was vital in rome

    • @MrLee-cy1pw
      @MrLee-cy1pw 3 місяці тому +15

      ​@@laisphinto6372 and super corrupt. Instead of serving the people they served themselves

    • @janvancura8412
      @janvancura8412 3 місяці тому +1

      @@tribunateSPQR One question how comparable are the 19th-century House of Lords and The Roman Senate?

    • @Heligoland360
      @Heligoland360 3 місяці тому +4

      ​@@janvancura8412More comparable to the early 19th century House of Commons.

  • @MrTmac9k
    @MrTmac9k 8 місяців тому +119

    Regarding Caesar and Crassus, I'm reminded of something a Texas oilman supposedly said: "Get far enough in debt with a fella, and you've got yourself a partner."

    • @vulpes7079
      @vulpes7079 Місяць тому +4

      Very true, eventually he'll have to at least stay out of your way so you can make the money back

  • @patrickmccarron2817
    @patrickmccarron2817 Рік тому +33

    Loving your videos man! Your topics are always interesting and well thought out. As someone who is more into the social/political history of Rome rather than the military history, your videos really provide something that is a bit lacking here on YT!

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +10

      Thanks so much, glad that you find them useful! We try to focus on the everyday aspects of Roman life since that tends to be neglected on UA-cam

  • @RomeForever
    @RomeForever Рік тому +23

    Excellent counter reading of the history. Not sure I"m convinced but raises valid questions and challenges assumptions about the Triumvirate and Roman politics

  • @flamenmartialis9529
    @flamenmartialis9529 Рік тому +33

    CFBR.
    This channel does a great job and I would really like to see it grow.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +13

      Thank you! Every comment, like and sun does that by securing the blessings of Jupiter Optimus Maximus (the UA-cam algorithm)

  • @antonio5478
    @antonio5478 Рік тому +16

    Great video honestly, I love your channel so far, very underappreciated but I know you will blow up eventually. Keep doing the good work.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +3

      Thanks so much! We’ve grown so much in the past week and it’s great to see the work paying off.
      More exciting Rome content to come!

  • @HistoriaMoneta
    @HistoriaMoneta Рік тому +11

    Excellent research and argument. I have always had an issue when the contention was made that the first triumvirate had absolute rule over Rome in any way resembling the second triumvirate. Looking forward to watching more of your content.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому

      Thank you! This one was a lot of fun to produce and we feel it gives some needed balance to the current view many popular historians take on the Triumvirate

    • @johnschmidt792
      @johnschmidt792 3 місяці тому

      So when pompey rigged the elections and openly murdered opposition voters during his consulship with crassus and arriving home to his wife in a blood soaked toga does give rise to an impression of ruling with an iron fist
      History civilis covers this occurrence fairly well.

  • @Ancient__Wisdom
    @Ancient__Wisdom Рік тому +18

    Excellent video - very well argued and an interesting counter narrative to the common assumptions of the era

  • @StanGB
    @StanGB Рік тому +62

    Would love to see a detailed video on Crassus - he always seems like he's so far behind the other two in terms of ability

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +22

      We’ll return to the First triumvirate eventually and will have full profiles of each member so stay tuned!

    • @lukeycc67
      @lukeycc67 Рік тому +19

      Agreed, the only place he probably excelled was his ability to make money illegally via extortion.

    • @themetalone7739
      @themetalone7739 Рік тому +21

      Out of all 3, he was the best at chugging molten gold.

    • @StanGB
      @StanGB Рік тому +4

      @@themetalone7739 🤣🤣🤣

    • @Tinil0
      @Tinil0 Рік тому +1

      @@themetalone7739 He likely still has the world record

  • @frankreed7560
    @frankreed7560 Рік тому +12

    Have been busy with finals and haven’t been able to check in, but I saw your video on crucifixion did really well and I wanted to say I’m happy for you!
    You deserve all the success in the world!

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +2

      Thanks! It's been a whirlwind but we're happy to see the latest reactions to our work

  • @PrincipledUncertainty
    @PrincipledUncertainty Рік тому +12

    This is such a wonderful channel. Succinct, measured, and accurate as far as we can manage from this distance. Kudos

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +5

      Thank you so much! Very glad that you have found this useful

  • @Legio--X
    @Legio--X Рік тому +10

    Excellent work as always!

  • @kevinmcqueenie7420
    @kevinmcqueenie7420 Рік тому +10

    Good analysis!

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +2

      Thanks! I feel that the rushed nature in which Roman history is taught can lead to a flattening of the content so that it is used to advance narratives that overlay with modern politics.
      Glad you enjoyed the video!

  • @timnil
    @timnil Рік тому +16

    When Crassus died, was there any commitment for Caesar or any of Crassus' other creditors to re-pay his family or estate for outstanding loans?

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +17

      Because of the ubiquity of client-patron relationships in ancient Rome, these debts were not always paid back through hard currency but could be "repaid" through favors, political support and other considerations. By the time of Crassus' death Caesar was wealthy from the conquest of Gaul and had been in league with Crassus for so long that any existing debt had probably been repaid.
      In the event of a creditor's death the expectation was that his clients would look to his heir as their patron. Crassus' eldest son Marcus would actually emerge as a supporter of caesar during the Civil War so it seems the power dynamic changed and the debt had been paid.

    • @wilhelmrk
      @wilhelmrk 3 місяці тому +1

      The same Marcus Crassus who slew an enemy chieftain in personal combat?​@@tribunateSPQR

  • @silvanski
    @silvanski Рік тому +5

    Your channel showed up in my recommendations, and glad it did. Excellent content for a history enthousiast like me.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +2

      Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video! We’re just getting started and have lots of interesting stuff in the works

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +29

    The destruction of the Empire began with Marius and Sulla, in my opinion.

    • @kimberlyperrotis8962
      @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +9

      Oops, meant to say Republic, but heard Empire and typed it!

    • @danielating1316
      @danielating1316 10 місяців тому +12

      ​@@kimberlyperrotis8962the death of the Gracchi brothers

    • @Notimportant3737
      @Notimportant3737 7 місяців тому

      @@danielating1316was just gonna comment this lol

    • @nicolaspinto76
      @nicolaspinto76 3 місяці тому

      The civil sar between Marius and Sulla was the consequence of decades of violent political fight

    • @johnschmidt792
      @johnschmidt792 3 місяці тому

      Refferd to as the conflict of the orders it began in the 500s b c and was cyclical. See stilico and his daughter Virginia and the decuviriri apius Claudius.

  • @CullenTheDuck
    @CullenTheDuck Рік тому +9

    Another banger vid

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +4

      Thank you! Appreciate the positive feedback!

  • @TobyTubeS
    @TobyTubeS 11 місяців тому +3

    Great video and well reasoned argument

  • @UnbekannterSoldat74
    @UnbekannterSoldat74 Рік тому +20

    The optimates were in short just limited pro-republic, as long as the system serves them. The populists though, might have had some great policy ideas, but only as long it served them. I think that landed plebeijans were not really much different from the more conservative gentry.

  • @jameshiler7830
    @jameshiler7830 Рік тому +136

    I haven't watched the video yet and I'm furious about the idea of people attacking the first triumvirate.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +49

      Surprisingly common among people who accept Cato's version of events at face value

    • @jameshiler7830
      @jameshiler7830 Рік тому

      @@tribunateSPQR Cato threw a tantrum and off'ed himself so he wouldn't lose. He essential flipped the game board. Not to be trusted.

    • @quentinquentin6752
      @quentinquentin6752 3 місяці тому +6

      Why would you be furious? It’s an academic discussion. Your emotional outburst and childish language is at once foolish and funny. Try acting like an adult. If nothing else your heart rate will improve.

    • @ComanderSazabi2000
      @ComanderSazabi2000 3 місяці тому +19

      ​@@quentinquentin6752 I'm sorry to tell you this but the person was being sarcastic

    • @ferea_896
      @ferea_896 3 місяці тому +11

      @@quentinquentin6752 because most people who specialise in Roman and Eastern Roman History when it comes to the topics of the Triumvirates and the Tetrarchy tend to see it not as a historical discussion but as a political one, i say this as a historian, and discussion on that subject is almost impossible, Every time it comes up the room splits immediately, almost like if you placed die hard democrats and republicans in a room and told them to discuss the most controversial thing they could think about

  • @LaraveaLand
    @LaraveaLand Рік тому +2

    Interesting perspective

  • @quentinquentin6752
    @quentinquentin6752 3 місяці тому +2

    Excellent video and very well argued. Octavian signalled the death knell for the Republic, to my mind, though I think it was on life support up until then.

  • @f1nalgambit381
    @f1nalgambit381 6 місяців тому +2

    Great video!

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  6 місяців тому

      Thanks! And thank you so much for all the support!

  • @robstewartstewart98
    @robstewartstewart98 2 місяці тому +3

    18:58 provides some further sad background to “HE WAS A CONSEL OF ROME!” 😢

  • @chrisg2307
    @chrisg2307 29 днів тому

    Great work!!

  • @kingeddiam2543
    @kingeddiam2543 3 місяці тому

    This was an excellent video, puts into a concise and totally researched form what i have thought for a long time. Amazing!

  • @josephlongbone4255
    @josephlongbone4255 3 місяці тому +12

    "Don't worry lads, it's just a quick campaign to boost my political career. These Eastern types should be easy pickings."
    -Crassus, before marching into Babylonia.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  3 місяці тому +6

      He went from always having gold on his mind to having gold in his mind

  • @ScipionLaurentiend
    @ScipionLaurentiend 3 місяці тому

    Excellent video...well done friend

  • @AnthonyGentile-z2g
    @AnthonyGentile-z2g Місяць тому

    Excellent analysis and totally correct. Caesar convinced the fierce rivals to cooperate with himself to achieve their legislative goals; which were being blocked by a similar clique around Cato.

  • @Insectoid_
    @Insectoid_ 8 місяців тому +1

    Great channel.

  • @kurtsell8376
    @kurtsell8376 4 місяці тому +2

    My opinion before watching was that the Republic was never fell, but failed so darastically it could no longer could fulfill the role of government. Thus the First Triumvirate and later Emperors were filling the vacuum left by its rotting institutions.

  • @Pfisiar22
    @Pfisiar22 4 місяці тому +4

    I don't think so. The moment Sulla marched on Rome was the moment that the Republic's fate was sealed. It just took another couple of generations to complete.

  • @landochabod7
    @landochabod7 3 місяці тому +3

    I'm confused by _amicitia_ being pronounced "amacita". It sounds Spanish or something...

    • @DiomedesDioscuro
      @DiomedesDioscuro 3 місяці тому

      It doesn't sound like Spanish, it doesn't sound like anything at all. 😅

    • @Avinkwep
      @Avinkwep 2 місяці тому +1

      Spanish is decended from Latin

  • @Elsidu13
    @Elsidu13 2 місяці тому

    It started when legions starting to show loyalty to the generals instead of Rome. That was the beginning of the end of the Republic. And the generals started to smell power and so eventually the Republic fell.

  • @CBrace527
    @CBrace527 11 місяців тому

    Profoundly interesting and engaging

  • @jelmar35
    @jelmar35 6 місяців тому +2

    Awesome content!
    The only thing is that amicitia was pronounced quite badly. Remember that in Latin, every single letter is articulated and all c's are hard (in the classical pronunciation at least, that is). Hence, it should have been a-mi-ki-ti-a with the i after the last t clearly articulated! (Suffciently correct) Latin pronunciation is really easy to learn; I am sure you can find 20 min guides on youtube.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  6 місяців тому +3

      Thanks for the advice- as you can tell, actual spoken Latin has never been my strong suit

    • @jelmar35
      @jelmar35 6 місяців тому +2

      @@tribunateSPQR no worries :)

  • @nategraham6946
    @nategraham6946 11 днів тому +1

    I suppose that is similar in my mind to the use of the “Byzantine Empire”. A term never used by itself nor anyone of the time.

  • @matthewct8167
    @matthewct8167 9 місяців тому +4

    Pompei must have really liked Caesar’s daughter 😂

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  9 місяців тому +3

      By all accounts it was a true, loving marriage.

  • @geordiejones5618
    @geordiejones5618 10 місяців тому +4

    Crassus bankrolled Caesar, who became friends with one of Pompey's subordinates. So it seems reasonable that during the 60s BCE, maybe as early as right after the Third Servile War when Crassus and Pompey both camped their armies just outside of the city, Caesar worked to convince both sides to convene for a sit down, where a deal was hammered out.

  • @larry1824
    @larry1824 2 місяці тому

    What was their hit single?????😅😅😅

  • @pumaconcolor2855
    @pumaconcolor2855 2 місяці тому

    Is that written "amicitia"?

  • @Kuudere-Kun
    @Kuudere-Kun 8 місяців тому +2

    Someone should make video on Crassus governorship of Syria and how he pillaged The Temple in Jerusalem.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  8 місяців тому

      One of our long term goals is to do a very detailed series on the oftentimes fraught relationship between Romans and Jews leading up to the great revolt. When we do that I"ll make sure to focus on this

    • @Kuudere-Kun
      @Kuudere-Kun 8 місяців тому

      @@tribunateSPQR Awesome, I'd also like to see more people talk about Gaius Cassius Longinus's dealing with The Jews during his two terms as Governor of Syria (and he seems to have been already there with Crassus) and Sextus Julius Caesar.

  • @ElliotCarson
    @ElliotCarson 7 місяців тому +4

    the republic was doomed after sulla either way. better that a caesar or an augustus rose to power than say an Antony or Clodius in my eyes

    • @laisphinto6372
      @laisphinto6372 6 місяців тому +2

      More Like after the gracchi Brothers, sulla resulted from Gaius Marius

  • @bothewolf3466
    @bothewolf3466 8 місяців тому +1

    19:37 You label the figure on the left as LEPIDUS, but he was the oldest one of the three, Lepidus must be the bearded older man on the right. Anthony the martial looking guy in the middle and Octavian the left. Still...Metallica reminds us to label no one :)

  • @henkstersmacro-world
    @henkstersmacro-world Рік тому +6

    👍👍👍

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  Рік тому +2

      Three thumbs up for three of history’s best friends

  • @ndmmt-wu7kz
    @ndmmt-wu7kz 16 днів тому

    The Republic of Cincinatus was long dead by the time of the first triumvirate. The stakeholders were transformed to indebted serfs.

  • @MrLee-cy1pw
    @MrLee-cy1pw 3 місяці тому +3

    I always got the impression that Caesar respected the rule of law and truly loved the republic. It seems like everything he did was either for the people of Rome or the men that served him.

    • @tribunateSPQR
      @tribunateSPQR  3 місяці тому +2

      Julius Caesar and the Roman People by Robert Morstein-Marx has been a massive influence on me - he portrays Caesar as a largely typical Republican politician who just happened to be more successful than the rest

  • @roamingvagabond5435
    @roamingvagabond5435 11 днів тому +1

    Ave, Caesar!

  • @11mousa
    @11mousa 2 місяці тому +1

    Well, Sullas attack on the republic could be mended but already weakened the republic. The first triumvirate built on the damage done. But even that could have worked out afterwards if there was not Octavian/Augustus following and building on the further damage done mostly by Cesar.
    So no, Cesar/Crassus/Pompey were not exclusive responsible for the death of the republic, but they further damaged an already weakened Republic and left something that could be easily destroyed

  • @HarbingerOfBattle
    @HarbingerOfBattle 8 місяців тому

    Well it’s not like the republic was representing the interests of the people. To be fair neither was the first triumvirate. The Roman perspective was “The reason Sulla did what he did is because that’s what happens when you allow plebs to have political rights!”

  • @ettorefassina356
    @ettorefassina356 3 місяці тому

    I don't know if you know, but it's not "amicita" (which sounds like a spanish per name), but "amicitia" (pronounced amiciTSia)

    • @truedarklander
      @truedarklander 3 місяці тому

      Also, hard C

    • @ettorefassina356
      @ettorefassina356 3 місяці тому

      @@truedarklander it depends, being an Italian, I was taught the ecclesiastical pronunciation of Latin, with soft Cs and US instead of Vs, which is the one the video is using

    • @truedarklander
      @truedarklander 3 місяці тому

      @@ettorefassina356 that's not the classical pronunciation, that's the ecclesiastical, which ironically enough, is based on Italian

  • @reynardus1359
    @reynardus1359 Місяць тому

    Sulla and Marius were the end of the Republic.

  • @virgilius7036
    @virgilius7036 9 місяців тому

    No, it's Octavius the son by heritage of Caesar!

  • @wyomingisfake4813
    @wyomingisfake4813 Місяць тому

    How ist your opinion always the exact opposite of Mine?

  • @johnberry3824
    @johnberry3824 3 місяці тому +1

    "Ah-mah-see-ta"? What a weird pronunciation, neither classical nor medieval. Either "ah-mah-ki-tiya" or "ah-mah-chee-tiya" would work, but this doesn't. It may seem trivial, but inaccurate pronunciation is disruptive to your listeners.

    • @johnberry3824
      @johnberry3824 3 місяці тому

      This is, nonetheless, a fascinating, insightful study of the "triumvirate."

  • @howardwiseman253
    @howardwiseman253 3 місяці тому

    Very informative. But please don’t misuse the word “misnomer” like that in future videos.

  • @sahilhossian8212
    @sahilhossian8212 7 місяців тому

    Lore of Did the First Triumvirate Destroy the Roman Republic?momentum 100

  • @OndrejSc
    @OndrejSc 9 місяців тому

    Popeye, Crassus & Caesar

  • @DiomedesDioscuro
    @DiomedesDioscuro 3 місяці тому

    Amasita? Amosita? So you mean amicitia?

  • @joezhou4356
    @joezhou4356 3 місяці тому

    Cato did.

  • @saigonmonopoly1105
    @saigonmonopoly1105 5 місяців тому

    there were no legion inside rome only slaves and mercinary secutity guard rome senate must raised an army every time rebellion stir

  • @heck3143
    @heck3143 Місяць тому +1

    Its truly bananas how happy I am to not live in that time and place.
    Rome seems like hell. An empire of 12-year-old mysoginists all trying to one-up each other and win games of dominance.
    I did middle school and that was more than enough. If someone had a time machine and asked if I wanted to visit I dont think I would day yes. Keep me the hell away from that cesspool of an ancient empire.
    Very cool to learn about. But holy moly Id hate to live there.

  • @triumphbobberbiker
    @triumphbobberbiker 3 місяці тому +2

    Sorry but the way you pronounce "amicitia" is utterly wrong. You make it sound like a spanish word!
    It should sound something like this: a-mee-chi-tee-a

    • @ColGesso
      @ColGesso 16 днів тому +1

      Also wrong. There is no “ch-” sound in classical Latin, it doesn’t exist. “C” is always a hard “k” sound regardless of following vowels.
      a.miːˈki.ti.a

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +2

    I like your content, but I wish you would use Classical Latin, not this anglicized, sort-of “Latin”.

  • @wolfiemum461
    @wolfiemum461 3 місяці тому

    The narrator gets a kink from saying a certain word guess what one ?

  • @ricagambeda
    @ricagambeda 3 місяці тому

    I had to bail after a few minutes even though the history was good. Could not abide the inexcusable mispronunciation of ‘amicitia’. Five syllables, not four. The first i as in ‘eat’ not ‘it’ and the second i as in ‘it’ not ‘eat’. Roughly ‘ammee-kitty-a’.

  • @Ravi9A
    @Ravi9A 21 день тому

    Invasion of india? In BCE 55? Lmao.

    • @theskycavedin
      @theskycavedin 7 днів тому

      BC is the correct terminology. Alexander literally invaded India hundreds of years before this

    • @Ravi9A
      @Ravi9A 7 днів тому

      @@theskycavedin wow, I triggered you twice in one sentence? nice.