Brand new reloader here! Your videos are like drinking fresh water on a hot day. I've been attending your videos and taking notes. Thank you for being here to instruct us! God bless.
I've been metallic reloading for nearly 30 years &, you're exactly correct with instructing the same cadence, (balanced or rhythmic flow or movement) Many dozens of times I've tested my powder measure in this way &, there's no question that this is very important when relying upon the measure to be repeatable. Very good truthful advise.
Well done lecture! I have been reloading since 1972 (380ACP up to 458 Win Mag. & 12GA), and he has just given one of the absolute finest lectures on reloading I have ever heard. Well done Gunblue490! Keep up the great educational lectures! You have just supplied viewers with a wonderful education. Wish they would have been available when I was a kid! It would have saved me ten years of learning on my own!
Learning alot from you , I use pretty much the same practice as you but did not realize why I did but now know . I have been reloading for 40 years . THANK YOU .
I sure wish I had seen your series back in the early 90's when I first started reloading. I, like you, have made all the mistakes...double filling a case and powder goes everywhere, finding powder on the block, dumping the powder in the funnel and having it clump and then picking up the funnel and it spills, getting distracted only a few seconds is all it takes. This is a great service to all beginners and even folks like me as I picked up tips from your technique. I am not a competitive shooter, but I strive to make things right. I still have my Redding beam scale and powder measure bought back in the early 90's and they still work great along with my RCBS trickler. Sometimes just for plinking and or fire forming cases I will use only the Lee dippers...after checking several dips for reasonable .1 or .2 grain accuracy. As you relate, Having fun and not rushing anything is such a big factor. Adding the lead to the trickler is a great tip!! Another point is it seems everyone wants to squeeze out the most feet per second they can.......sometimes the starting load is the most accurate, and to me that is a good thing. Thanks again for a well done, informative video!!
I’ve been rewatching your old videos. I’ve been handloading for about five years now but I learn more and more each time I rewatch one of your videos. How have you been? Hope all is well and your enjoying your summer. God Bless.
Your spot on with info. Only thing I do differently is use a micrometer powder throw and make a chart of powder weights that correspond to whatever setting on the powder throw. Then I simply use the powder throw settings and never use a trickler at all. I do throw about three charges before I begin filling cases in the event I bumbed around the bench and settled the powder. I don't want those first couple throws in cases. Great video's really enjoy watching a master at work.
I have told my wife I am "taking a reloading class online" when I watch your videos because it seems very much like an actual college class. I get so much out of every video...very glad I found your channel. My main reason today for watching this series is because I am trying to make my AR15 work using cast bullets and finding that powder/load combination has been very frustrating. It is a .223/5.56, 1:9 twist, 16" barrel. My bullets are 55 grain and powder coated with no gas check. I want to keep velocity around 1200 fps or so to prevent leading. I have been using IMR 4895 in incremental loads starting from 18.5 to 21.0. They all are fairly accurate at 25 yards, but will not cycle the action...the shot casing will eject, but the next round will not load up. I have been told that the charge may be too small as it is not forcing the bolt back far enough and it's out of timing with the next round coming up from the magazine. Makes logical sense. I even tried a few with dacron filler, but it had no effect. Which brings me to this video series...maybe I'm using the wrong powder? Thank you again so much for taking the time to put together these excellent vids!
Alan Bycroft WHOA!!! You are using a standard rifle powder that is entirely unsafe for reduced power loads that can result in any number of catastrophic consequences!!! I cannot overstate the danger. Reduced loads use very fast burning powders that are in the pistol and shotgun burn rate, and you MUST consult a manual for this special purpose data! Even then you cannot safely drop below velocities of about 1750 feet per second, in order to maintain safe internal pressures. Contrary to what many believe, it is NOT safe to reduce pressures below established parameters. Do not use filler materials. Once popular, they have a history of causing serious damage, or worse. If you wish to use reduced lead bullet loads, obtain a copy of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, which is the only complete and reliable reference material. As to the cycling, it is impossible to cycle the action of any gas operated automatic firearm below standard full pressures that it was engineered for. They are not adjustable. The gas system is fixed, and requires particular gas pressure and burn rate that develops cycling pressure in the gas tube. Single loading of such rounds is the only option.
54+ years of reloading. I started out with Lee dippers, went to a powner dropper, then a Lyman autoscale ,and now an RCBS digital scale (my best friend passed and he wanted me to have it). I like to measure each charge to insure consistency. For my way of reloading, the RCBS auto digital scale, it perfect. I use a Lyman turret press, so speed is not an issue to me.
I have been loading for 30 yrs, but always good to compare practices... I always learn something when viewing your videos!! As always thank you for sharing your knowledge!!!!
I just watched part 1 and part 2 of "Making Accurate Loads". I must say that you do an explicit job. Your intellectual technique of explaining each aspect from start to finish is the probably the best that I have experienced thus far. I've been reloading for just over a year now (green horn) and started out with 9mm luger, I just added .45 ACP to my setup and in the process of testing my make up loads. After watching your video's, I feel more confident in what I should be doing moving forward. Thank you so much for the effort and the time you have put into these videos sir. Kindest Regards Rodney Burkett
So Nice to hear all the tips and reasoning from a real master of the industry. I try to take in everything I hear and practice these teachings. Thank You so much , for all of these wonderful videos while we have them.
I have had the same measure for about 25-30 years. It came with both drums. I have always used the small drum because I have always only used it for handgun loads. Now that I see the variations. And how small they are on paper, I will probably be using it a lot more.
This is very good. Throwing 5-10 charges to settle the powder is something I figured out long the way. Same with the consistent cadence. Keeping detailed notes is vital. With taller powder hoppers especially (like Hornady), a baffle inside the powder reservoir helps keep throws consistent as the level of powder decreases. If something sticks or feels odd when you throw a charge STOP. With stick powders sometimes you will get a kernel/stick that gets cut by the powder measure. That charge might be OK but check it on the scale. A set of check weights to make sure your scale is accurate and you have the markers on the scale in the right place adds a level of safety. You can’t be too safe IMHO. I start at the lowest load and then trickle up for heavier loads. NEVER HAVE MORE THAN ONE POWDER ON THE BENCH. Early on, I dumped some W-231 into another bottle at the end of a hand loading session 🤬 Thankfully I recognized my mistake before putting the powder bottles away. Mixing powders can have horrific results. I had to throw out almost a full bottle of powder away. (This gentleman clearly knows this rule but didn’t state it explicitly.) I disagree strongly on one recommendation - requiring 2 throws per charge seems like a mistake waiting to happen. Would you catch an under-charge with the flashlight? Almost certainly... but almost isn’t good enough for me. I had 1 brown pants experience testing my hand loads. My gun did fine, but Sig 357 is not supposed to go over 1,600 FPS. Being compulsive about safety is reasonable.
I just want to say thank you so very very much I've been loading for a while but always looking to learn more I learned a lot by watching you specially on technique and most of all keeping it simple Thanks again you're a great teacher enjoy all your videos
I agree with the flashlight. When I first started reloading for my long range target rifles, I made some hunting loads hastily to go out to our ranch in west Texas for the weekend. The deer I wanted appeared and pop. I knew instantly what happened, I made a squib load. I use a flashlight on every tray every time bad lesson learned.
I remember the first time throwing .300 Win. Mag. loads of Re22. I'd never used a super slow powder like that. Jeez, it felt like chopping up gravel, but I got used to it after a while. Originally, I thought the drum was being damaged, that's how bad it felt. Gunblue490's charge throwing procedures are exactly how I was taught. It's hard to make a mistake if you are disciplined, alert and consistent.
Once again, great information. I was already doing most of this based on experience, but it would have been great to have someone telling me the little "secrets" before I started. Thanks.
From these videos I have sold my charge master and invested in a beam scale and trickler to accommodate the thrower,,,, it has def streamlined the process!
Great refresher course. thanks. I've been reloading for about 25 yrs off and on but rarely have time except around hunting season. I'm building some tooling on my lathe & mill to measure the oal correctly for my gun. I have never done that in the past but I just got a new .260 Rem. in Ruger M77 Hawkeye and I want to dial it in just right. I have alot of IMR 4350 I need to use up so I'll keep records like you say. I've been told by others that H4350 is much better. I don't have any yet. We'll see. Thanks again.
Thanks. One thing... there's no better powder, and whoever says that is clueless. H-4350 and IMR-4350 are very similar, but have slightly different burning rates, that must use different charge weights, but neither is better than the other, nor are any other powders. There are powders that work better in certain guns, but whether one is better than the other for yours is only something that your own evaluation can reveal. I have used both versions of 4350 through the years and have had superb results with both in the guns that liked them. My .257 Roberts loves both. Don't be surprised if your gun does, either. Just don't use the same data.
Interesting two video. I have hand loaded for 52 years. There were a couple of powders that they changed but used the same name. WW231 was one of them so the loadings changed. Some use to claim light loads of Bullseye could be inconsistent in 38 or 357 cases but I never found that to be true. Some even cut small foam wads to hold the powder near the flash hole. The foam was vaporized. Most of my reloading was for reduced target loads. Rifles calibers are just 30-30 and 30-06.
A standard target load for 38Spl was 2.8gr Bullseye and a 148gr HBWC. Would take out the X-ring at 50yds on a 1500 target. The fact that the bullet filled most of the case probably helped. I miss the revolvers, they were banned in the UK. Enjoying fullbore rifles though, a different animal compared with revolvers.
Thank you sir for your information and video. I have been using your way for a few years and have great luck. I use the Lee disk and lee powder drum for reloading. I just got a Dillon 550B and useing their charge bars and just like the drum i set it to drop a certain powder charge and weigh the first 10 to make sure then evary 10 loads i pull one and check it. It may very one or two tenths of a grain but as you commented it does not make a defferants in the shot.
As an added level of safety I use two block's, one block or a pan with empty case's on one side of the drop and then transfer to the other side of the dump for the loaded . VERY LOW chance of spills or over-charge when using pistol powder i.e. on cast loads. and yep still "light them up" .
Great video , I saw your Lee Loadmaster video a while back , and have watched MANY videos of yours since . I I have been attempting to reload for about 15 years , and don't shoot enough to really warrant reloading , but still do anyway . My brand new Loadmaster , is 4 or 5 years old now , never used . Bought it to replace a Lee 3 station that probably only saw 200 rounds .I have it for when I do decide to actually get out and do some shooting . Love watching videos , thanks for the awesome uploads .
Thanks for the info , I will contact them first thing Monday . As much as I enjoy shooting when I have the funds , reloading isn't a top priority , I have been unable to get out and do any shooting in over 3 years due to medical issues & surgeries for hip and lower back . I hope to soon be able to get out and have some fun . I still carry most of the time , but being unable to stand upright kinda puts a kink in actually trying to shoot . Love your videos , keep up the awesome work .
I made an electric trickler for about three dollars using a 99 cent vibrating disk motor and a battery tray for three AAA batteries and a on/off switch. Epoxied the vibrati;g disk to the bottom of a used Antacid bottle. Wired up the switch and the vibrator and the battery tray. Drilled two holes through the sides of the container near the bottom so I could run a 7” length of small diameter tube through it (actually used a piece of an broken hollow arrow shaft. Drill some small holes in the tube so the powder inside the container could get inside the tube.
Know that you are providing a lot of folks a tremendous amount of good by imparting tons of knowledge on the proper techniques to be used during reloading safely, effectively and economically. Please know that all the time, effort and expense you are putting into making these videos is much appreciated. You have the knowledge, the skills and the ability to educate others while making it a pleasure to watch...and learn. I've been reloading for most of my adult life but still find valuable information from watching your videos. Thank you and may God bless you so you may continue this work of love helping others. Please know it's much appreciated.
Hi, I have been reloading for 30 yrs.or so the guy who taught me was old school, I do have power drops but prefer to weigh each load. You mentioned loading for a 257 Roberts, I have and load 40gr IMR 4064 with 75gr Hornady HP, in a Remington 722. Very accurate and hard hitting. I also load for 22 Hornet, 222, 223, 3030, 45 acp. Your videos are very interested. I will be looking for more of them. Thank you for your expertise and time.
Data is not necessarily wrong. It can be wrong for any given circumstances that were not present to the author of the data. Many variables can create different test results. Those well known variables, plus powder lot variations that can be very significant, always beg each person to adhere to the standard rule to work up loads carefully, and never assume that any printed maximum loads are safe until such is established for a given gun. If you read the SAAMI pressure test procedures, you will see that the development of pressure data for each cartridge is vastly more complex than anyone can arrive at by traditional loading practice, because it is based on statistical behavior of powders over large test sets, using pressure measurement equipment and strict procedures. It's for this reason that, while a cartridge has an established pressure limit, many powders cannot approach those pressures due to the fact that a statistical number will spike dangerously over the threshold. It's typical for a list of powders in a given cartridge to have maximum pressure loads over a span of several thousands of PSI, with only a few at maximum working pressure. A handloader, not aware of such facts, may see normal pressure indications with a heavier charge than listed, and then have no warning when a round causes serious trouble. Over the years, I have come to understand that one should err on the side of the powder manufacturers data, and that any bullet maker's data that strays from it must be approached carefully. Ten bullets of exactly the same weight and caliber can develop ten vastly different pressures with the same loads, due to shank to bore bearing length variations and jacket thickness and hardness. A 150 grain 30 caliber round nose bullet has almost twice the bearing surface as a military jacketed boat tail, and a Partition bullet with a supportive web across it's midsection can develop greater pressure than a Sierra bullet of similar appearance.
@@GunBlue490 That's very good advice on how bullets vary. Having read through a number of manuals I observed that bullets of the same weight had quite different loads with the same powder. The devil is in the detail with reloading and I always check and recheck. 30 years on and so far no issues but still careful. Thanks from sunny England for all your efforts to produce these videos.
Your Scale looks like my old LYMAN Beme Scale which I Bought back in the early 70's & love it I just bought a Electronic Scale from Frankford for apx 30 bucks to double check my Powder loads etc
If you are loading a sequence of loads to use for testing, be sure to mark them before you go very far. The cartridges will all look alike and if you knock some over or they fall out of your box you won't be able to tell them apart. I use a permanent marker to mark symbols on the primers, symbols such as a big dot or a big circle or a cross. This doesn't give a lot of options but you could also easily write on a jacketed bullet and have more room for more options.
I use 1 2 3 4 5 ect. If I load 3 or 5 loads of my lowest charge of 50 grains that is 1 so all 5 get a number 1. Then my second charge on 50.5 would be all marked with 2!
Well said .. One of my favorite ctgs now for the passed 45 years .. One thing i picked up on was, all the powders listed don't really make an ounce of consideration of one over the other..With almost 60 years of being a handloader and bullet maker , i have found powders do make a huge difference in the accuracy dept.. I don't find that all 19 powders list on a page will produce excellent accuracy with the same bullet , not just in 22/250 but in other calibers too.. Kinda like your wife making homemade cookies, if the mix is just perfect the cookies will be wonderful , if the mix is off , well i guess the crows will eat the cookies ..I noticed you picked 4064 for your loads , i will say this throughout the years of reloading this ctg with many different powders , i only found three powders that would shoot 1/2" groups all day long .. One an Accurate powder , one an IMR powder and one a VIHT powder.. Like all handloaders i have cans of powder on my shelves that just wasn't the "magic mix", but that's what handloaders do always working for smaller groups ..But with powders being in the range of $28.00-$45.00 per pound today, then there is that cost when i'm out chasing finer accuracy .. Every handloader i know in my lifetime has done this , you have a proven load for your rifle , buy a powder that you have never used in that ctg and after many trips to the range with different loads to make this come together, the end result is now i have 2"1/4" group .. This new magic powder just didn't do it.. Plus i fired almost 100 of my most accurate bullets to find this out .. Yes that's what we all do... My 22/250 ctg has produced the best accuracy with "almost" the same load as you are using , 36.2 grains of 4064. My other two powders are close to that group size running 5/8" to 3/4" but just not in the 5 shots into 3/8" group that 4064 will produce .. It's good to have back up powders to fall back on if needed as your favorite powder is not on the shelve in any store ..whoops what do i do now? The secret is in the correct powder/bullet combo.. You didn't say how you settled on 4064 but i'm sure you loaded hundreds of loads to find that magic combo .. Your loading process is good a lot like mine ..
Perhaps I spoke in more general terms than you might have expected. As a fellow accuracy loader, I certainly don't consider all powders to be of equal performance, as my comment may have suggested, and I have spent countless trips back and forth from my loading bench to the shooting bench in the quest for those golden loads. But, audience is largely made up of those new to the game, who have need for solid, reliable loading advice. I recall many years ago listening to old handloaders who made it sound as if loading was virtually impossible for the uninitiated, and that no worthwhile load was possible without having special inside knowledge. It nearly kept me from entering into the fun. I still see that highbrow stuff going on today, and still encounter folks that don't dare to try their hand for fear of it. Rather, I want to encourage people, and subtract the unnecessary mystery. Just as a person encourages a child to enter the water for her first swimming lesson, and then tells them they did perfectly, Dad didn't mean that in the literal sense, as in being a man Olympic swimmer. I don't want newcomers to get bogged down in details. I want them to be confident that indeed, it doesn't make a bit of difference which powder they pick. I have a book full of great loads, but even the worst powders I've tested on those pages were certainly capable of producing acceptable accuracy that would make a newbie smile at his or her accomplishment. Once they get involved, they will have a lifetime to be their own critic and explore different powders and work up those golden loads, which I will soon be helping with. That was my intent. I hope you understand the context of my videos in reference to the intended audience. Between us, I have found R-15 to be an exceptionally strong performer with the 22-250, and it's very uniform. It also performs wonderfully in the 300 Savage, giving sub-MOA accuracy, along with velocities close on the heels of the 308. IMR-4064 is the accuracy champ with that round, but R-15 is not far behind, with bonus speed, for those needing it. Thanks for your support.
@@GunBlue490 I kinda thought your terms may of been in general about all the powders listed on the page of the reloading manual..I too meet folks at my local range off and on who ask me questions about this serious undertaking of endangering our own lives by handloading .. When i entered into the world of handloading i was not quite 18 years old and i remember the first Speer reloading manual (which i still have only listed 5-6 powders for each bullet weight ) Not much of a choice and mostly the powders were IMR powders .. My father loaded for a .270 Win at the time and he only bought 1 pound of 4831 and 1 pound of 4350 and loaded loads of each powder using 130 grain bullets .. One trip to the range was all it took to find out which powder produced the tightest groups.. My father bought Outdoor Life each month and he felt Jack O' Conner being an expert in the hunting field of hunting big game would know what worked the best in his .270 Win.. Jack would publish his favorite loads most of the time before hunting season..I could understand by saying it different make a difference which powder they used as long as they picked one on that page for that bullet weight .. I have done close to the same thing for folks that asked but they used a different powder than i did , yup i got a phone call from one fellow because his loads the way he put it was like OO buckshot on the target and couldn't understand why? He didn't understand why that my top load being the most accurate in my rifle may not shoot in a rain barrel in a different firearm, his... He kept saying a 6mm is a 6mm, yes very true but in caliber only, different barrel twist, barrel and action bedding and on the list goes which you already know.... Over the years i have seen that take place a lot , even side by side on the shooting bench with same calibers and different make firearms , my Sako fired excellent groups with MY LOAD so he asked if he could shoot a few of mine so i gave him 5 rounds to fire out of his Savage 110 , not only did he have fliers he only had two bullets that were 1/4" apart...I have throughout the years have had things like "my favorite load" come back to bite me when i shared it with other handloaders new and starting out, yup i got a few phone calls about those too, now i just offer suggestions , just follow your reloading manual, i do not give out my top/accurate load data ..I do not own an AR 15 /MSR or need one or want one or even like the rifle and i feel the same way after shooting a number of them, i think they are great for the folks who like them and hunt with them here where i live .. I see more and more of them at the range every time i go there .. One gunshop in my area has four racks and they are all filled with AR or AK rifles any brand you may think you want plus all the toys to add to them.. Same thing shooting IDPA shoots, i have fired Glock , Sig, Nighthawk, Beretta and a few other brands .. But for me i don't like plastic handguns and never will and i will not buy one just because it holds 16+1 or 18+1 rounds ..The other thing i noticed , there are more people shooting themselves with these dam striker fired handguns than i realized, that and these dam inside the pants holsters , i don't get that , why in the hell would anyone anyone want to carry a firearm in their underware , even master NRA instructors have fired striker fired models off inside the class room.. I' m not a great fan of the 1911 even though i have fired almost one hole groups using a Colt Gold Cup a few times yes i was impressed , if there was no way around it and i had to own one (semi auto), ya a Colt or Kimber but only in .38 super .. I'm a revolver person always have been..So my EDC comes in at 37 ounces and i carry it in a leather high ride holster, i like that , works fine for me and my needs ..
Pretty much agree with everything you both say. You need to match the load to the individual firearm. That's the beauty of handloading, can be frustrating if you can't get it to work though! I have a .44 Marlin that just doesn't like 200gr bullets. Shoots .432 lead 240gr RNFP very well. It's probably the show twist designed for heavier faster moving bullets.
I am told i should insert a metal cone in the dispenser to disperse the powder distribution for an always correct density. I didn't see you using one. Is this just a gadget? Thank you for the quality and the detail level of the video!
I bought several pounds of Win 231 and Universal powders during the powder shortage in 2020. Many internet articles stated these powders “metered well” and were great for 38 Spcl. I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and get loads that vary widely (plus or minus 0.4 grains). With my target load of 3.5 gr for Win 231 and 4.2 gr for Universal, plus 0.3 gr puts me over the max load. What do you suggest?
I am very new to rifle reloading although I have been shotshell reloading for many years. I bought my Mec 600 Jr in 1978. One question if I may. What is your experience with using a baffle in the hopper for the powder measure? I have experience in high speed food packaging equipment that uses volumetric filling equipment where maintaining a consistent column of material and therefore head pressure on the volumetric cavity will dramatically reduce standard deviation on the dispensed material.
Fredmullegun It's a rewarding, fun project. I made that block from cherry left over from making kitchen cabinets. You can make a simple verticle drill guide jig from a couple of thicknesses of hardwood glued together that will position your bit upright consistently, and use a makeshift stop for consistent depth.
Thanks once again for this very informative video , I appreciate you and your knowledge PS you and I think very similar when it comes to a logical , simple and Common approach to reloading , I’m learned much from your videos 👍
Oh gee, I ordered a new Lee powder measure because my old RCBS measure has been sitting in a box for 3 years and it rusted up. This Lee measure is very very weird. I'm gonna try it but I am beyond skeptical.
Working on load development in a Ruger American .223, we have encountered a less than stellar result using Hornady 75gr. bullets driven by Varget. All other parameters remaining the same, would you try a different bullet or different powder first in the search for better performance?
Hello Sir, I have a beam scale Lyman to be more precise. Now couple of months ago I purchased a digital one which came with two calibrated weights of 20 grams each. I tested my beam scale with those weights and found out that it's reading about 2 grains less that when it's zeroed. I know that the weights are calibrated correctly. Have you ever checked your scale against a calibrated weight? Thanks again for your great lessons.
I have a problem I would like your advice on. I loaded 120 grain 6.5 creedmoor my mistake was that I seated the bullet and did not check the oal of the bullet. The bullet was touching the lands and caused to much pressure in the chamber of my AR 10. The bolt pin gouged small nick in the upper. Is this something I should be concerned about? Are AR 10 s. Finicky about reloads more than a bolt gun? Thanks
I load for my sako 243, I use 37.5 gr of H380 with 95gr Nosler bullets, it prints sub MOA and I believe the only limit to its accuracy is me! The max load Recommended is 38gr, the load I use is accurate but is less then 80% capacity, the velocity is low and I find the bullet drop is excessive past the zeroing range, I have tested up to the max load and there is absolutely no over pressure signs, what your view on testing higher loads or should I try another powder type?
As with all of the other comments your videos are great! Very informative. I was a little mislead by the title. I thought you were going to explain how to choose a powder from scratch and work up a load without referring to the manual. I would like to see a video illustrating how to select a powder for either pistol or rifle and choose a burn rate working the load from there.
Which is better brass, Winchester or Remington? What do you think of Starline for precision? I know Lapua is the best. I want a good brass for a reazonable price.
I really enjoy the education in reloading, neighbor. I just had a question about RCBS Baffle used in throwing powders. Do you or have you ever found a need for a Baffle?
I've tested many baffles and found no difference, even when the hopper is to the last few grains. The baffles theoretically stabilize powder weight and density, but in reality, the small hole controls that.
I hope you will respond to this question specifically about IMR4350, I notice in maximum load data, the pressures are way down compared to other powders and I've noticed a difference between load data between manuals todays as opposed to 40 years ago. Have loads been watered down?
P C IMR 4350 is one of my favorite powders that provides excellent velocities and often, superior accuracy in a number of calibers. In answer to your question, no, loads have not been "watered down". That implies that load potential is not being fully utilized, as a cheap restaurant waters down beverages. Load data is entirely based on extremely precise statistical logarithms, developed by SAAMI, that are not apparent in the pressure listings. That is, current data is safe and correct for the same traditional powders. The older data was established before historic research proved them to be cantankerous, and potentially dangerous. Some of the books produced years ago were developed by bench testing, without the use of pressure measuring equipment, or even when it was available, insufficient numbers of test shots were made to define the working parameters if the powders. A working pressure of a firearm is the maximum, not necessarilly the norm. In fact, it's rarely the norm, and it should never be viewed as the target pressure to attain with any powder. IMR 4350 is one of the best powders for top velocities, but as with other slower burning powders, it tends to react unpredictably outside of its comfort zone, and those who push it by watching "pressure signs" have found themselves in emergency rooms or with a stuck bolt on a hunting trip. Loading data is absolutely not watered down for the legal department, as is often suggested. Quite the contrary. I have run into a great many published loads that are simply too much for high grade, modern firearms, which is why the best advice is to never assume a top load is safe in any gun without carefully approaching it, and immediately backing off when things show the slightest signs. My 257 Roberts uses much of that powder, and its most accurate loads are slightly below maximum, but are extraordinarily accurate, which means far more than any velocity that I sacrifice. Keep this always in mind... Each 100 fps is worth only 22 yards of performance in terms of trajectory, and energy, and it rarely means more than 1/4 MOA. I can name some old manuals that had flat-out bad data that I found excessive back when the print was new. Enjoy your powder, and know that it's doing what is responsible for its long popularity.
I know this is old video, but this was confusing, 10% is 3.6 grains, rd to 4 grains, not .4, and I thought we were starting below max, you started at max of 36. So just going with .4 grains though, if you start 10% up, 32.4, then the increments would be 32.4, 32.8, 33.2, 33.6, and 34. Not close to the max 36. Do you keep adding .4 until you get close to 35 or 36? In other words, starting load is 32.4, moving up, not 36 (max load) then move down (in my mind for safety).
I've been working up an incremental load for my Leupold 2x7 scoped CZ 308 Winchester. Winchester once fired brass, Hornady Interlock SP150's, CCI 200 primers. Start 43 gr in .5gr increments to 44.5gr. Tightest groups 43gr and 44 gr - nice. I thought it odd that I didn't shoot the 43.5 load as well. I did another series today using Hornady once fired brass, same powder, bullet, & primer. This time in .4 increments - 42.6, 43, 43.4, 43.8, 42.2. The 43 load again shot very well as did the 44.2. Is it unusual that I would have two loads shooting very well and the loads in the middle not quite as good? Yes, I imagine marksmanship could be a factor but I reached the same "accurate" loads in different sessions. It was a bit coldish this morning but not bad - maybe 30F. I took a break between sets to let the barrel cool. Walked to the target, examined the brass, cleaned off the powder residue and generally just took my time. Hmmm.
Ray Nelson You have a good load. Extruded powders are not that sensitive, and may have a broad range of accurate loads. It is not unusual for two better loads to bookend a lesser load. But one set of groups does not spell the whole story, as any number of variables exist. Be certain of your benchrest technique.
If you are using a 700 Remington in 22-250 I think the twist rate may be 1:14. I have a similar rifle and my research tells me that a 52 grain bullet is the max for stabilisation. Of course you know more than me but will a 60 grain bullet stabilise?
The 22-250 is classically loaded with 55 grain spitzer bullets. It's not the weight, but the length that affects stability. The 14 inch twist 22-250 will stabilize heavy 63 grain semi pointed bullets but may not stabilize certain, long 55 grain ballistic tip boat tails such as Hornady produces. Twist is a length issue, not a weight issue.
I knew a man who was a hunter and loaded his own ammo. He was experimenting and ended up losing an eye out at a range one day. It could have been worse. The moral of the story is do not try to set any records with your gun and ammo or you just might bag yourself when out hunting one day.
Sir, My question involves the term "old 4831." The late Bruce Jennings, Jr, subject matter expert on all things Newton, used "old 4831" in his .256 Newton loads. Erring on the side of safety due to not knowing if "old 4831" is faster than "new" 4831 or 4831SC, I have always loaded a couple grains less. What are your thoughts on "old 4831" vs today's 4831? I assume Mr Jennings was talking about 4831 from when Bruce Hodgdon started. Thank you.
I was once given a couple of pounds of original H4831 about 35 years ago and tested it with my Sako 270, both accuracy and over my old Chrony. It was slightly slower than average by less than a grain in a maximum load for the same pressures and velocity. I've certainly experienced far greater variation between lots made during production by Scotland and Australia in the early 90s, which varied by over 300 feet per second with identical charges. According to Hodgdon, Short Cut SC4831 uses the same loading data as H4831, and that has been my experience with it. It's simply easier to meter, pour, and because it stacks better, generally avoids the issue of compaction in dense loads. Powder burning rates constantly change over the years with different manufacturers and among lots. There is no such thing as a old versus new burning rate. Any given lot can be faster or slower than another in any time period, and loading density has as much to do with variations in chamber dimensions, bore smoothness, primer heat, and bullet hardness than in burning rates. The loads written about decades ago by Newton, O'Connor, and others have no relationship to whatever loads may be used in any cartridges at any time in history. Their printed pet loads were frankly over the top, and quite hot, which may have worked with the relatively soft bullets of the day. My stern advice is to never under any circumstances, assume any load with any powder is safe or provides a particular velocity in any gun. Further, while powder can last many decades in storage, it's burning rate absolutely does change over time, and it's not necessarily slower or faster. Every load should be approached incrementally, increasing one percent at a time, when any change is made. Any new lot of powder can be considered a possible change in pressure by a significant level, by as much as five percent, especially if made by a different plant.
@@GunBlue490 Thank you. Like you, I use H4831SC b/c it meters so well and produces good results most times. I recently acquired the Speer Reloading Manual for Wildcat Cartridges #4. One can tell by the typeset it is over 50 years old. In fact, I believe it was printed in 1960. I will follow your advice from the two videos wrt working up loads in my .256 and .30 Newton rifles. GBU and GBA! V/r FV
GunBlue, so your saying a charged load would be as consistent as a weighed load? What is exactly the difference in the two? My pet load in the last barrel I shot ended up being about 10% over max call out for the book load and running an interference seating of the bullet. Without any pressure signs. When I test I usually look for 1 or 2 nodes that that particular barrel likes in speed, then I will play with the load either +/_ 1 gr either way in .1 gr increments. I will then play with seating depth till I find the most consistent load for a window of temp and humidity. I chamber my own barrels to bench rest quality, using custom reamers either by PTG or JGS. I always turn necks, I fire form brass ( all blue box) then speed them and divide them up accordingly. I seat bullets with the same neck tension and I strive for ES and SD in the single digits. I agree with the statement about wind but you can adjust for that, the waterline I believe is a little different, that's where consistent reloading comes in I feel. In the discipline I compete in, matches are won and lost at the reloading bench. When you are shooting at a 5 inch X ring at 1000 yds a .25 moa flyer high or low could cost you a match, left or right would be my bad, either I got caught in a change up in the mirage or wind or didn't read it correctly. Anyway, back to my original question about zeroing balance beam scales, do you zero statically or with a given weight? BTW, I really liked your video on annealing. I am going to start doing that myself here soon when I get my annealer built. I go through so much brass in a season that I have to do something to get a little more life out of them. I presently discard brass after 4 firings because the consistency goes away and I hope by annealing the brass I can regain some of that and save on the wallet also. Keep up the good work sir. On a side note, I swear I have meet you before, or someone that resembles you, I ran into that person several years ago in Washington state.
I zero my 45 year old balance beam with the simple static method. I have checked it over the years on occasion with bullets of known weight, and it's absolutely dead on. Scales have no reason to change, unless they are abused. Powder and primers vary considerably more than any charge weight would show. I understand your reasons for fussiness, but I have done all the same things, and have tested velocities too. One cannot compel a bullet to go into the same hole by simply having exact powder charges and all things uniform. You may be led to believe that, but internal ballistics do not correspond that way, and no ballistic lab has ever reached that conclusion, either, or they would simply publish one load per cartridge. The best that can be achieved is "most consistently uniform" or "generally more".
I never said there is one load. Each and every rifle/barrel has a happy load and possibly two happy loads. I will say though, depending on the powder, I have seen .5 grain of powder will create an additional 50 fps to 75 fps of muzzle velocity. In normal hunting situations that is nothing to be concerned with. I shoot F class, I am not on a bench, I am connected to the rifle. Everything matters then. Bench rest shooters look for the tightest groups closest to the X or V depending where your shooting. When I compete it is the X or the V that counts to win. One tenth of a grain may not matter at 100 yds. but it does at a 1000 yds. That is why I use scales that measure to .01 gr and weigh each and every load. My original question, which you answered, was about zeroing scales. You use a bullet of known weight (that can vary +/- 1.5 gr, that is a known in match bullets) I have 4 different scales, I use only two of the four regularly. I have a problem when you can take a verified calibrated weight and and put it on a supposedly zeroed scale and come up with a different weight between the scales. I can do this all day on any scale you provide. I have adopted the procedure as to set the balance beam scales with the calibrated weight/s and then confirm the point on the digital (that has also been calibrated) that measures to .01 gr.
Vince G Velocity variations occur normally, with the closest possible powder measurements. F class shooters did not invent precision shooting, nor can any degree of scrupulously measured loads alter physics. Thousand yard shooting has been going on for a century, and nothing is new, and attempting .01 grain measurements are certainly not new. I was doing precision electroplating to preciseness of less than .0002 in 1968 in work that helped put a man on the moon. Everything in your sport has been done for a very long time and uses technology that is very long established for many decades, using cartridges, and in some cases, powders that have been around for over 100 years. If you think F class shooters invented precision shooting or perfected it, you are incorrect. You asked me a question, and I answered you. Please do not condescend to me. I didn't derive my knowledge in a vacuum.
Thank you for such a fast reply. I really enjoy your videos, very informative, were you a teacher or something? Which powders would you suggest or have used for heavy .223 bullet loads. Thank you again.
Like the Marines ... Left, Left, Left right Left. Great information in all your videos. I have not heard any one thing that I don't agree with, very knowable.I have learned a lot. I still want you to be my Daddy!!
I know this vid is not cartridge specific but this week. I have undertaken a new cartridge I have had no experience with, the 6mm br norma. I have heard you vaguely mention this cartridge in one video is there any special things I need to know about reloading this little darling? I'm packing away my long range rifles and moving to a precision custom varmint rifle I bought from a friend that never fired a shot in it enjoyed the videos
Randall Harrington I spoke of the 6mm PPC, but am not personally familiar with the 6mm Norma BR. I'm certain that it is very efficient, though I don't have any knowledge of its velocity. If it is within 100 fps of the 243 Winchester for individual bullet weights, it would satisfy any hunting need. Be sure it has the correct twist rate for the bullet lengths you require.
thanks for that u have been a great help , there will be more questions shortly just to finalise reloading , umm just wondering do use adi powders in the US and I need a load for ar2209 for my 204 Ruger it's not listed do u have any load for this powder
Hi how you doing I know you use to load for the police I've been trying to find out how a starting load in the load data manuals compare to standard factory loads all videos have great thanks
Police departments generally use factory produced ammo these days due to liability issues and training requirements. Standard factory loads are made to SAAMI industry specifications which details the pressure limits as well as cartridge dimensions. Ammo makers may or may not load to full SAAMI pressures, though they generally may be considered safe maximums. Loading manual publishers also adhere to SAAMI specifications when developing load data, so their maximum loads are held to the same pressures that manufacturers use. Because loading manuals have no control over the component combinations used, or the many variables of seating depth, bullet hardness, die adjustments, etc, which give different pressures than factory tested standard loads, they list "starting loads", which is a safe place from which to proceed. Due to those many variables, any reduced load may actually give standard, maximum pressures in a given combination.
@@GunBlue490 Master Blue I'm new to loading now I understand why we have to work up our loads on non persision standard loads You are easily the most knowledgeable gunman on the internet Thanks
I've had so many miss-charged cases by doing the "loading military cadence" sometimes stick powder gets stuck in the tube and results in a low charge. i've taken to FLICKING/Tapping the neck of the powder throw to let the powder release consistently.
Stuck powder charges is another issue, and has nothing to to with using a routine. Certain powders do not flow correctly through certain measures. Banging a measure is a treatment for a systemic problem that requires a look at the cause, not a temporary remedy.
If the load data shows it is using a Winchester case with a specific power and primer and bullet would it be safe to use a different case name brand like Remington or federal ect ? or is there some data somewhere to show what the different powder charge would be. aka conversion table. This would be for rifle or pistol.
Different headstamps will have different internal volumes, which affects pressure. Never mix headstamps or trust a powder charge in a different headstamps brass. I.e. A safe charge in Winchester brass, may be over pressure in Remington brass. Always work up to loads
I would prefer to stand. My work area i toss the cases in a ammunition can on my side and draw near. I wanted it on the sides and it worked out well. But I had to do it in a cubicle. Bad idea for the power being made. That was capping cases. For measuring propellant and inserting bullets I want a new work space that has more room. The chance of explosion should go well down and make a better build. The circumstances have made things poor and results follow. I know what I really need and more room is one of those things
I really like your videos. They have a lot of good information, even for a seasoned loader. I have one question I would like to ask you, Let me set this up. I use a combination of balance beam and high quality gem scales for weighing my charges (I shoot competition at 1K btw). I also use check weights, that have never been touched by hand, for verifying the accuracy of the scales for any given charge. I use a RCBS 1010 scale and a gem pro digital. When I check zero on the beam scales and then put in my particular charge weight with the check weights, I then again re zero my scale. I will do the same to the digital but of course I get a slight deviation (were in the +/- .02 grains) . I try to keep all my loads within +/- .01 grains for my rifle, for a proven load. (I believe matches are won and lost on the re loading bench) If the balance beam is set to zero initially and then the check weights are added and then re-zeroed would it be the correct scale or the digital that is zeroed to the check weights? I have never been able to determine if the check weights are off or are the scales off. ( Which comes first the chicken or the egg) I have graduated my balance beam scales so that I can get within +/- .05 grains but I am very anal on being within +/- .01 grains. That random flyer I get off the waterline is it because of my shooting or is it because of scales? I would be interested in your opinion. Keep up the good work, I want to personally thank you for what you do, it is very informative.
Vince G If I read you correctly, you are speaking in terms of hundredths of a grain, and you are measuring to one hundredth. In the ballistic universe, all measurements are divided to nothing more specific than a the tenth of a grain, which is indeed a degree of precision that ends the quest. Powder does not burn with the exacting precision that affects any charge weight to a degree in excess of a tenth, in even the smallest capacity case. My many years of accuracy testing have confirmed to my absolute satisfaction that weighing charges has no advantage whatsoever over measuring them. I have tested weighed loads against charged loads many times and have never found any relevance in the least. In fact, the charged load can outperform the precisely weighed one on any given day, simply because the accuracy game is far more than weighing bullets and powder, and the slightest half mile per hour breeze can shift a bullet off course unexpectedly, twenty times farther than half a grain of powder. I cannot agree with your assessment. If you want precision, use single based extruded powders, load them to within a hundredth of their average charge weight, and you will have arrived at the absolute limit of a cartridges potential. In a 222 Remington case that holds 20 grains, that would be two tenths. I don't know of a measure that throws charges less precise than that. Ammunition does not react to white gloves, hair nets, and laboratory scales.
How do you feel about the RCBS Little Dandy Powder Measure Rotors? Given that they are a fixed powder charge it seems there is no way the charge can ever change compared to the adjustable unit that you use?
Harry Callahan They are what you describe. They are fixed to specific charges. Adjustable measures adjust to specific charges. Both deliver specific charges, whether fixed or infinitely adjustable. Adjustable measures do not "change", nor are they less precise. This 40 year old RCBS measure charges with precisely the same precision as any fixed measure with the same powders. My Lee disk system is fixed with specific, gauged holes that are measured by cc (cubic centemeters), which I convert to grains by a specific ratio of each powder. My MEC shotshell reloader uses fixed charge bushings that provide specific charges assigned to specific powders in exactly the same way. The RCBS fixed system is not new science. They work just fine, but are indeed fixed, and no one's system is all inclusive, with every charge weight. In many situations, the desired charge falls between the engineered bushings or hole sizes, so using them is nothing less than a compromise. If my 45 likes 5.2 grains of a particular powder, but the closest I can get with a fixed measure is one or two tenths different, which is a lot for that small case and is simply not the sweet spot, I am out of luck. I have never in my life had any occasion where an adjustable measure was unable to deliver consistent, accurate, repeatable charges that provide the ultimate in accuracy. Ball powders are precise; extruded powders are sometimes imprecise, but hugely forgiving. In any event, no fixed measure can throw a more precise charge than an adjustable measure that is fixed at the same volume. I will always go with an adjustable measure, wherever it's possible, where I can fine tune the volume. Powder lots are inconsistent in volume to a small degree, so fixed measurements can swing up and down accordingly, and one has to run out and buy a different measure bushing, or adapt to something else. It's another marketing gadget that most folks really don't need, designed to attract dollars.
I have a difficult time understanding, how you find out whether or not to make the charge a tenth or a fifth less than what the book says? Or does the book also detail those increments as well? Just a side note, I will be taking a hand-loading class at sportsmans store.
The general published rule, when dealing with a new load, is to start with ten percent less than the maximum stated load in the manual. A tenth is 10%, but never drop by a fifth, which is 20%!
hello gunblue...after watching this video,i;ve decided it was time to purchase a new powder measure..i like the rcbs...they offer a quick change version,which actually is only a few dollars more than their standard version..it seems to have added value for the convienance factor..have you had any experience with this version..thanks for your thoughts, jb
jon b. Nope, mine is 45 years old. They changed the bored dimentions to sell two drums. With the small drum, mine will accurately drop over 65 grains, so larger loads are accurately dropped by just dividing the charge by 2 and doubling. They apparently changed the capacities of the small and large, but I would still prefer working with the smaller one, which cuts a smaller column, but just be sure to use a light to check your loads afterwards so you don't accidentally half charge.
Daniel Gonzalez If you mean the pocket loaders, they will give you some fun, but are tedious for more than a few rounds. Call them and get a catalog. They have presses and pedestal stands, and even a hand press that works wonderfully, to fit all budgets and space accommodations, no matter how small.
Brand new reloader here! Your videos are like drinking fresh water on a hot day. I've been attending your videos and taking notes. Thank you for being here to instruct us! God bless.
I find your videos to be good common sense for the most part, and enjoy watching and relating to your down to earth wisdom. Thanks for sharing ....
I've been metallic reloading for nearly 30 years &, you're exactly correct with instructing the same cadence, (balanced or rhythmic flow or movement)
Many dozens of times I've tested my powder measure in this way &, there's no question that this is very important when relying upon the measure to be repeatable.
Very good truthful advise.
Thank you,
you are one of the finest teacher’s I’ve listened too!
Ditto!
ditto too!
I never thought to set my powder measure the way you did. Nice tip
I was reloading 40 years ago, before I was old enough to even shoot regularly, and I never knew that trick.
Very good tip, I'll be using that one. Really useful switching from small to larger loads.
Well done lecture! I have been reloading since 1972 (380ACP up to 458 Win Mag. & 12GA), and he has just given one of the absolute finest lectures on reloading I have ever heard. Well done Gunblue490! Keep up the great educational lectures! You have just supplied viewers with a wonderful education. Wish they would have been available when I was a kid! It would have saved me ten years of learning on my own!
Learning alot from you , I use pretty much the same practice as you but did not realize why I did but now know .
I have been reloading for 40 years . THANK YOU .
This channel is brilliant. No BS and well presented. Many thanks for your time and effort from the UK.
I sure wish I had seen your series back in the early 90's when I first started reloading. I, like you, have made all the mistakes...double filling a case and powder goes everywhere, finding powder on the block, dumping the powder in the funnel and having it clump and then picking up the funnel and it spills, getting distracted only a few seconds is all it takes. This is a great service to all beginners and even folks like me as I picked up tips from your technique. I am not a competitive shooter, but I strive to make things right. I still have my Redding beam scale and powder measure bought back in the early 90's and they still work great along with my RCBS trickler. Sometimes just for plinking and or fire forming cases I will use only the Lee dippers...after checking several dips for reasonable .1 or .2 grain accuracy. As you relate, Having fun and not rushing anything is such a big factor. Adding the lead to the trickler is a great tip!! Another point is it seems everyone wants to squeeze out the most feet per second they can.......sometimes the starting load is the most accurate, and to me that is a good thing. Thanks again for a well done, informative video!!
Appreciate the hands on knowledge. Your very good in that you impart the 'why' into the instruction which helps guys like me remember. Thank you.
great series, hope all is well. Helped me in my journey starting to reload. very thorough!
I’ve been rewatching your old videos. I’ve been handloading for about five years now but I learn more and more each time I rewatch one of your videos. How have you been? Hope all is well and your enjoying your summer. God Bless.
Your spot on with info. Only thing I do differently is use a micrometer powder throw and make a chart of powder weights that correspond to whatever setting on the powder throw. Then I simply use the powder throw settings and never use a trickler at all. I do throw about three charges before I begin filling cases in the event I bumbed around the bench and settled the powder. I don't want those first couple throws in cases. Great video's really enjoy watching a master at work.
GREAT INFO!! New to reloading and i am learning tons from you!! I am shooting a 30-06. THANKS
Thanks for your quick response! Looks like i was on the path to some bad things...glad I checked in with you! Thank you!
I have told my wife I am "taking a reloading class online" when I watch your videos because it seems very much like an actual college class. I get so much out of every video...very glad I found your channel. My main reason today for watching this series is because I am trying to make my AR15 work using cast bullets and finding that powder/load combination has been very frustrating. It is a .223/5.56, 1:9 twist, 16" barrel. My bullets are 55 grain and powder coated with no gas check. I want to keep velocity around 1200 fps or so to prevent leading. I have been using IMR 4895 in incremental loads starting from 18.5 to 21.0. They all are fairly accurate at 25 yards, but will not cycle the action...the shot casing will eject, but the next round will not load up. I have been told that the charge may be too small as it is not forcing the bolt back far enough and it's out of timing with the next round coming up from the magazine. Makes logical sense. I even tried a few with dacron filler, but it had no effect. Which brings me to this video series...maybe I'm using the wrong powder? Thank you again so much for taking the time to put together these excellent vids!
Alan Bycroft
WHOA!!! You are using a standard rifle powder that is entirely unsafe for reduced power loads that can result in any number of catastrophic consequences!!! I cannot overstate the danger. Reduced loads use very fast burning powders that are in the pistol and shotgun burn rate, and you MUST consult a manual for this special purpose data! Even then you cannot safely drop below velocities of about 1750 feet per second, in order to maintain safe internal pressures. Contrary to what many believe, it is NOT safe to reduce pressures below established parameters. Do not use filler materials. Once popular, they have a history of causing serious damage, or worse.
If you wish to use reduced lead bullet loads, obtain a copy of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, which is the only complete and reliable reference material.
As to the cycling, it is impossible to cycle the action of any gas operated automatic firearm below standard full pressures that it was engineered for. They are not adjustable. The gas system is fixed, and requires particular gas pressure and burn rate that develops cycling pressure in the gas tube. Single loading of such rounds is the only option.
Very interesting video.
Always had trouble setting up my charges , never thought of that idea.
Brilliant many thanks.
54+ years of reloading. I started out with Lee dippers, went to a powner dropper, then a Lyman autoscale ,and now an RCBS digital scale (my best friend passed and he wanted me to have it). I like to measure each charge to insure consistency. For my way of reloading, the RCBS auto digital scale, it perfect. I use a Lyman turret press, so speed is not an issue to me.
I have been loading for 30 yrs, but always good to compare practices... I always learn something when viewing your videos!! As always thank you for sharing your knowledge!!!!
I just subscribed to this channel recently and absolutely love hearing his best practices. This video is long but well worth with it.
I just watched part 1 and part 2 of "Making Accurate Loads". I must say that you do an explicit job. Your intellectual technique of explaining each aspect from start to finish is the probably the best that I have experienced thus far. I've been reloading for just over a year now (green horn) and started out with 9mm luger, I just added .45 ACP to my setup and in the process of testing my make up loads. After watching your video's, I feel more confident in what I should be doing moving forward. Thank you so much for the effort and the time you have put into these videos sir.
Kindest Regards
Rodney Burkett
So Nice to hear all the tips and reasoning from a real master of the industry. I try to take in everything I hear and practice these teachings. Thank You so much , for all of these wonderful videos while we have them.
Thank you for all the detail. Very helpful
I have had the same measure for about 25-30 years. It came with both drums. I have always used the small drum because I have always only used it for handgun loads. Now that I see the variations. And how small they are on paper, I will probably be using it a lot more.
Neat trick with dumping the weighed load back in the powder measure to quickly dial in the throw.
This is very good. Throwing 5-10 charges to settle the powder is something I figured out long the way. Same with the consistent cadence. Keeping detailed notes is vital.
With taller powder hoppers especially (like Hornady), a baffle inside the powder reservoir helps keep throws consistent as the level of powder decreases.
If something sticks or feels odd when you throw a charge STOP. With stick powders sometimes you will get a kernel/stick that gets cut by the powder measure. That charge might be OK but check it on the scale.
A set of check weights to make sure your scale is accurate and you have the markers on the scale in the right place adds a level of safety. You can’t be too safe IMHO.
I start at the lowest load and then trickle up for heavier loads.
NEVER HAVE MORE THAN ONE POWDER ON THE BENCH. Early on, I dumped some W-231 into another bottle at the end of a hand loading session 🤬 Thankfully I recognized my mistake before putting the powder bottles away. Mixing powders can have horrific results. I had to throw out almost a full bottle of powder away. (This gentleman clearly knows this rule but didn’t state it explicitly.)
I disagree strongly on one recommendation - requiring 2 throws per charge seems like a mistake waiting to happen. Would you catch an under-charge with the flashlight? Almost certainly... but almost isn’t good enough for me. I had 1 brown pants experience testing my hand loads. My gun did fine, but Sig 357 is not supposed to go over 1,600 FPS. Being compulsive about safety is reasonable.
I just want to say thank you so very very much
I've been loading for a while but always looking to learn more
I learned a lot by watching you specially on technique and most of all keeping it simple
Thanks again you're a great teacher enjoy all your videos
I agree with the flashlight. When I first started reloading for my long range target rifles, I made some hunting loads hastily to go out to our ranch in west Texas for the weekend. The deer I wanted appeared and pop. I knew instantly what happened, I made a squib load. I use a flashlight on every tray every time bad lesson learned.
I remember the first time throwing .300 Win. Mag. loads of Re22. I'd never used a super slow powder like that. Jeez, it felt like chopping up gravel, but I got used to it after a while. Originally, I thought the drum was being damaged, that's how bad it felt. Gunblue490's charge throwing procedures are exactly how I was taught. It's hard to make a mistake if you are disciplined, alert and consistent.
I just learned many things I did not know as a very new loader on this video,thank you sir
I appreciate your videos. Sensible.
Once again, great information. I was already doing most of this based on experience, but it would have been great to have someone telling me the little "secrets" before I started. Thanks.
You are like the best reloading buddy any one could ever ask for. Love your videos. I thank you.....
I am impressed with your knowledge. Your ability to efficiently convey that knowledge is astounding. Well done.
From these videos I have sold my charge master and invested in a beam scale and trickler to accommodate the thrower,,,, it has def streamlined the process!
Great refresher course. thanks. I've been reloading for about 25 yrs off and on but rarely have time except around hunting season. I'm building some tooling on my lathe & mill to measure the oal correctly for my gun. I have never done that in the past but I just got a new .260 Rem. in Ruger M77 Hawkeye and I want to dial it in just right. I have alot of IMR 4350 I need to use up so I'll keep records like you say. I've been told by others that H4350 is much better. I don't have any yet. We'll see. Thanks again.
Thanks. One thing... there's no better powder, and whoever says that is clueless. H-4350 and IMR-4350 are very similar, but have slightly different burning rates, that must use different charge weights, but neither is better than the other, nor are any other powders. There are powders that work better in certain guns, but whether one is better than the other for yours is only something that your own evaluation can reveal. I have used both versions of 4350 through the years and have had superb results with both in the guns that liked them. My .257 Roberts loves both. Don't be surprised if your gun does, either. Just don't use the same data.
Interesting two video. I have hand loaded for 52 years. There were a couple of powders that they changed but used the same name. WW231 was one of them so the loadings changed. Some use to claim light loads of Bullseye could be inconsistent in 38 or 357 cases but I never found that to be true. Some even cut small foam wads to hold the powder near the flash hole. The foam was vaporized. Most of my reloading was for reduced target loads. Rifles calibers are just 30-30 and 30-06.
A standard target load for 38Spl was 2.8gr Bullseye and a 148gr HBWC. Would take out the X-ring at 50yds on a 1500 target. The fact that the bullet filled most of the case probably helped. I miss the revolvers, they were banned in the UK. Enjoying fullbore rifles though, a different animal compared with revolvers.
Thank you sir for your information and video. I have been using your way for a few years and have great luck. I use the Lee disk and lee powder drum for reloading. I just got a Dillon 550B and useing their charge bars and just like the drum i set it to drop a certain powder charge and weigh the first 10 to make sure then evary 10 loads i pull one and check it. It may very one or two tenths of a grain but as you commented it does not make a defferants in the shot.
As an added level of safety I use two block's, one block or a pan with empty case's on one side of the drop and then transfer to the other side of the dump for the loaded . VERY LOW chance of spills or over-charge when using pistol powder i.e. on cast loads. and yep still "light them up" .
I do something similar as I usually load light loads of pistol calibres which are easier to double charge.
Really high quality instruction. Thanks!
Great video , I saw your Lee Loadmaster video a while back , and have watched MANY videos of yours since . I I have been attempting to reload for about 15 years , and don't shoot enough to really warrant reloading , but still do anyway . My brand new Loadmaster , is 4 or 5 years old now , never used . Bought it to replace a Lee 3 station that probably only saw 200 rounds .I have it for when I do decide to actually get out and do some shooting . Love watching videos , thanks for the awesome uploads .
Donald R
The primer devices have been upgraded since for improved function. Contact Lee for replacement.
Thanks for the info , I will contact them first thing Monday . As much as I enjoy shooting when I have the funds , reloading isn't a top priority , I have been unable to get out and do any shooting in over 3 years due to medical issues & surgeries for hip and lower back . I hope to soon be able to get out and have some fun . I still carry most of the time , but being unable to stand upright kinda puts a kink in actually trying to shoot . Love your videos , keep up the awesome work .
I made an electric trickler for about three dollars using a 99 cent vibrating disk motor and a battery tray for three AAA batteries and a on/off switch. Epoxied the vibrati;g disk to the bottom of a used Antacid bottle. Wired up the switch and the vibrator and the battery tray. Drilled two holes through the sides of the container near the bottom so I could run a 7” length of small diameter tube through it (actually used a piece of an broken hollow arrow shaft. Drill some small holes in the tube so the powder inside the container could get inside the tube.
Know that you are providing a lot of folks a tremendous amount of good by imparting tons of knowledge on the proper techniques to be used during reloading safely, effectively and economically. Please know that all the time, effort and expense you are putting into making these videos is much appreciated. You have the knowledge, the skills and the ability to educate others while making it a pleasure to watch...and learn. I've been reloading for most of my adult life but still find valuable information from watching your videos. Thank you and may God bless you so you may continue this work of love helping others. Please know it's much appreciated.
Your words are a great encouragement. Thank you, and may God bless you.
Hi, I have been reloading for 30 yrs.or so the guy who taught me was old school, I do have power drops but prefer to weigh each load. You mentioned loading for a 257 Roberts, I have and load 40gr IMR 4064 with 75gr Hornady HP, in a Remington 722. Very accurate and hard hitting. I also load for 22 Hornet, 222, 223, 3030, 45 acp. Your videos are very interested. I will be looking for more of them. Thank you for your expertise and time.
Enjoy these videos thanks for sharing
It's good to have several manuals of reloading data to cross reference. They can be a little different and I've seen wrong data listed before.
Data is not necessarily wrong. It can be wrong for any given circumstances that were not present to the author of the data. Many variables can create different test results. Those well known variables, plus powder lot variations that can be very significant, always beg each person to adhere to the standard rule to work up loads carefully, and never assume that any printed maximum loads are safe until such is established for a given gun. If you read the SAAMI pressure test procedures, you will see that the development of pressure data for each cartridge is vastly more complex than anyone can arrive at by traditional loading practice, because it is based on statistical behavior of powders over large test sets, using pressure measurement equipment and strict procedures. It's for this reason that, while a cartridge has an established pressure limit, many powders cannot approach those pressures due to the fact that a statistical number will spike dangerously over the threshold. It's typical for a list of powders in a given cartridge to have maximum pressure loads over a span of several thousands of PSI, with only a few at maximum working pressure. A handloader, not aware of such facts, may see normal pressure indications with a heavier charge than listed, and then have no warning when a round causes serious trouble. Over the years, I have come to understand that one should err on the side of the powder manufacturers data, and that any bullet maker's data that strays from it must be approached carefully. Ten bullets of exactly the same weight and caliber can develop ten vastly different pressures with the same loads, due to shank to bore bearing length variations and jacket thickness and hardness. A 150 grain 30 caliber round nose bullet has almost twice the bearing surface as a military jacketed boat tail, and a Partition bullet with a supportive web across it's midsection can develop greater pressure than a Sierra bullet of similar appearance.
@@GunBlue490 That's very good advice on how bullets vary. Having read through a number of manuals I observed that bullets of the same weight had quite different loads with the same powder. The devil is in the detail with reloading and I always check and recheck. 30 years on and so far no issues but still careful. Thanks from sunny England for all your efforts to produce these videos.
Great info. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Excellent video.
Your Scale looks like my old LYMAN Beme Scale which I Bought back in the early 70's & love it I just bought a Electronic Scale from Frankford for apx 30 bucks to double check my Powder loads etc
If you are loading a sequence of loads to use for testing, be sure to mark them before you go very far. The cartridges will all look alike and if you knock some over or they fall out of your box you won't be able to tell them apart. I use a permanent marker to mark symbols on the primers, symbols such as a big dot or a big circle or a cross. This doesn't give a lot of options but you could also easily write on a jacketed bullet and have more room for more options.
I use 1 2 3 4 5 ect. If I load 3 or 5 loads of my lowest charge of 50 grains that is 1 so all 5 get a number 1. Then my second charge on 50.5 would be all marked with 2!
One exception, you can download H4895 based on Hodgdon guidance to 60% max for low pressure, reduced velocity loading.
a great video of part 2, keep up the good work.
Thank You... Great information.
Brilliant, thank you.
Thank you for the videos. Very much appreciate. I am new to reloading and still gathering up the tools to do it. I enjoy your approach.
Well said .. One of my favorite ctgs now for the passed 45 years .. One thing i picked up on was, all the powders listed don't really make an ounce of consideration of one over the other..With almost 60 years of being a handloader and bullet maker , i have found powders do make a huge difference in the accuracy dept.. I don't find that all 19 powders list on a page will produce excellent accuracy with the same bullet , not just in 22/250 but in other calibers too.. Kinda like your wife making homemade cookies, if the mix is just perfect the cookies will be wonderful , if the mix is off , well i guess the crows will eat the cookies ..I noticed you picked 4064 for your loads , i will say this throughout the years of reloading this ctg with many different powders , i only found three powders that would shoot 1/2" groups all day long .. One an Accurate powder , one an IMR powder and one a VIHT powder.. Like all handloaders i have cans of powder on my shelves that just wasn't the "magic mix", but that's what handloaders do always working for smaller groups ..But with powders being in the range of $28.00-$45.00 per pound today, then there is that cost when i'm out chasing finer accuracy .. Every handloader i know in my lifetime has done this , you have a proven load for your rifle , buy a powder that you have never used in that ctg and after many trips to the range with different loads to make this come together, the end result is now i have 2"1/4" group .. This new magic powder just didn't do it.. Plus i fired almost 100 of my most accurate bullets to find this out .. Yes that's what we all do... My 22/250 ctg has produced the best accuracy with "almost" the same load as you are using , 36.2 grains of 4064. My other two powders are close to that group size running 5/8" to 3/4" but just not in the 5 shots into 3/8" group that 4064 will produce .. It's good to have back up powders to fall back on if needed as your favorite powder is not on the shelve in any store ..whoops what do i do now? The secret is in the correct powder/bullet combo.. You didn't say how you settled on 4064 but i'm sure you loaded hundreds of loads to find that magic combo .. Your loading process is good a lot like mine ..
Perhaps I spoke in more general terms than you might have expected. As a fellow accuracy loader, I certainly don't consider all powders to be of equal performance, as my comment may have suggested, and I have spent countless trips back and forth from my loading bench to the shooting bench in the quest for those golden loads. But, audience is largely made up of those new to the game, who have need for solid, reliable loading advice. I recall many years ago listening to old handloaders who made it sound as if loading was virtually impossible for the uninitiated, and that no worthwhile load was possible without having special inside knowledge. It nearly kept me from entering into the fun. I still see that highbrow stuff going on today, and still encounter folks that don't dare to try their hand for fear of it. Rather, I want to encourage people, and subtract the unnecessary mystery. Just as a person encourages a child to enter the water for her first swimming lesson, and then tells them they did perfectly, Dad didn't mean that in the literal sense, as in being a man Olympic swimmer. I don't want newcomers to get bogged down in details. I want them to be confident that indeed, it doesn't make a bit of difference which powder they pick. I have a book full of great loads, but even the worst powders I've tested on those pages were certainly capable of producing acceptable accuracy that would make a newbie smile at his or her accomplishment. Once they get involved, they will have a lifetime to be their own critic and explore different powders and work up those golden loads, which I will soon be helping with. That was my intent. I hope you understand the context of my videos in reference to the intended audience. Between us, I have found R-15 to be an exceptionally strong performer with the 22-250, and it's very uniform. It also performs wonderfully in the 300 Savage, giving sub-MOA accuracy, along with velocities close on the heels of the 308. IMR-4064 is the accuracy champ with that round, but R-15 is not far behind, with bonus speed, for those needing it. Thanks for your support.
@@GunBlue490 I kinda thought your terms may of been in general about all the powders listed on the page of the reloading manual..I too meet folks at my local range off and on who ask me questions about this serious undertaking of endangering our own lives by handloading .. When i entered into the world of handloading i was not quite 18 years old and i remember the first Speer reloading manual (which i still have only listed 5-6 powders for each bullet weight ) Not much of a choice and mostly the powders were IMR powders .. My father loaded for a .270 Win at the time and he only bought 1 pound of 4831 and 1 pound of 4350 and loaded loads of each powder using 130 grain bullets .. One trip to the range was all it took to find out which powder produced the tightest groups.. My father bought Outdoor Life each month and he felt Jack O' Conner being an expert in the hunting field of hunting big game would know what worked the best in his .270 Win.. Jack would publish his favorite loads most of the time before hunting season..I could understand by saying it different make a difference which powder they used as long as they picked one on that page for that bullet weight .. I have done close to the same thing for folks that asked but they used a different powder than i did , yup i got a phone call from one fellow because his loads the way he put it was like OO buckshot on the target and couldn't understand why? He didn't understand why that my top load being the most accurate in my rifle may not shoot in a rain barrel in a different firearm, his... He kept saying a 6mm is a 6mm, yes very true but in caliber only, different barrel twist, barrel and action bedding and on the list goes which you already know.... Over the years i have seen that take place a lot , even side by side on the shooting bench with same calibers and different make firearms , my Sako fired excellent groups with MY LOAD so he asked if he could shoot a few of mine so i gave him 5 rounds to fire out of his Savage 110 , not only did he have fliers he only had two bullets that were 1/4" apart...I have throughout the years have had things like "my favorite load" come back to bite me when i shared it with other handloaders new and starting out, yup i got a few phone calls about those too, now i just offer suggestions , just follow your reloading manual, i do not give out my top/accurate load data ..I do not own an AR 15 /MSR or need one or want one or even like the rifle and i feel the same way after shooting a number of them, i think they are great for the folks who like them and hunt with them here where i live .. I see more and more of them at the range every time i go there .. One gunshop in my area has four racks and they are all filled with AR or AK rifles any brand you may think you want plus all the toys to add to them.. Same thing shooting IDPA shoots, i have fired Glock , Sig, Nighthawk, Beretta and a few other brands .. But for me i don't like plastic handguns and never will and i will not buy one just because it holds 16+1 or 18+1 rounds ..The other thing i noticed , there are more people shooting themselves with these dam striker fired handguns than i realized, that and these dam inside the pants holsters , i don't get that , why in the hell would anyone anyone want to carry a firearm in their underware , even master NRA instructors have fired striker fired models off inside the class room.. I' m not a great fan of the 1911 even though i have fired almost one hole groups using a Colt Gold Cup a few times yes i was impressed , if there was no way around it and i had to own one (semi auto), ya a Colt or Kimber but only in .38 super .. I'm a revolver person always have been..So my EDC comes in at 37 ounces and i carry it in a leather high ride holster, i like that , works fine for me and my needs ..
Pretty much agree with everything you both say. You need to match the load to the individual firearm. That's the beauty of handloading, can be frustrating if you can't get it to work though! I have a .44 Marlin that just doesn't like 200gr bullets. Shoots .432 lead 240gr RNFP very well. It's probably the show twist designed for heavier faster moving bullets.
👍👍👍 thank you for your videos 👍👍👍
I am told i should insert a metal cone in the dispenser to disperse the powder distribution for an always correct density. I didn't see you using one. Is this just a gadget?
Thank you for the quality and the detail level of the video!
Great video, thank you.
I bought several pounds of Win 231 and Universal powders during the powder shortage in 2020. Many internet articles stated these powders “metered well” and were great for 38 Spcl. I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and get loads that vary widely (plus or minus 0.4 grains). With my target load of 3.5 gr for Win 231 and 4.2 gr for Universal, plus 0.3 gr puts me over the max load. What do you suggest?
Thank you for a great video
simply exceptional as always.
I am very new to rifle reloading although I have been shotshell reloading for many years. I bought my Mec 600 Jr in 1978.
One question if I may. What is your experience with using a baffle in the hopper for the powder measure? I have experience in high speed food packaging equipment that uses volumetric filling equipment where maintaining a consistent column of material and therefore head pressure on the volumetric cavity will dramatically reduce standard deviation on the dispensed material.
I like that loading block. I have a crappy router and hand drill, I feel like I could make one.
Fredmullegun
It's a rewarding, fun project. I made that block from cherry left over from making kitchen cabinets. You can make a simple verticle drill guide jig from a couple of thicknesses of hardwood glued together that will position your bit upright consistently, and use a makeshift stop for consistent depth.
Excellent tutorial sir!
Thanks once again for this very informative video , I appreciate you and your knowledge PS you and I think very similar when it comes to a logical , simple and Common approach to reloading , I’m learned much from your videos 👍
Oh gee, I ordered a new Lee powder measure because my old RCBS measure has been sitting in a box for 3 years and it rusted up. This Lee measure is very very weird. I'm gonna try it but I am beyond skeptical.
Working on load development in a Ruger American .223, we have encountered a less than stellar result using Hornady 75gr. bullets driven by Varget. All other parameters remaining the same, would you try a different bullet or different powder first in the search for better performance?
Hello Sir, I have a beam scale Lyman to be more precise. Now couple of months ago I purchased a digital one which came with two calibrated weights of 20 grams each. I tested my beam scale with those weights and found out that it's reading about 2 grains less that when it's zeroed. I know that the weights are calibrated correctly. Have you ever checked your scale against a calibrated weight? Thanks again for your great lessons.
I have a problem I would like your advice on. I loaded 120 grain 6.5 creedmoor my mistake was that I seated the bullet and did not check the oal of the bullet. The bullet was touching the lands and caused to much pressure in the chamber of my AR 10. The bolt pin gouged small nick in the upper. Is this something I should be concerned about? Are AR 10 s. Finicky about reloads more than a bolt gun? Thanks
23:50 What is bridging? Powder sticking out of the drum?
COMB0RICO
When powder jams across the spout. That load will be light. The next will overcharge.
I have done the same thing to both of my RCBS TRICKLERS
I load for my sako 243, I use 37.5 gr of H380 with 95gr Nosler bullets, it prints sub MOA and I believe the only limit to its accuracy is me!
The max load Recommended is 38gr, the load I use is accurate but is less then 80% capacity, the velocity is low and I find the bullet drop is excessive past the zeroing range, I have tested up to the max load and there is absolutely no over pressure signs, what your view on testing higher loads or should I try another powder type?
As with all of the other comments your videos are great! Very informative. I was a little mislead by the title. I thought you were going to explain how to choose a powder from scratch and work up a load without referring to the manual. I would like to see a video illustrating how to select a powder for either pistol or rifle and choose a burn rate working the load from there.
5 shot groups give better statistics. Also some powder takes longer to fill the charging tube than others
Which is better brass, Winchester or Remington? What do you think of
Starline for precision? I know Lapua is the best. I want a good brass
for a reazonable price.
I'm using Lapua for rifle and Starline for pistol. I haven't found to much difference in the big manufacturers for pistol ammunition.
I really enjoy the education in reloading, neighbor. I just had a question about RCBS Baffle used in throwing powders. Do you or have you ever found a need for a Baffle?
I've tested many baffles and found no difference, even when the hopper is to the last few grains. The baffles theoretically stabilize powder weight and density, but in reality, the small hole controls that.
I hope you will respond to this question specifically about IMR4350, I notice in maximum load data, the pressures are way down compared to other powders and I've noticed a difference between load data between manuals todays as opposed to 40 years ago. Have loads been watered down?
P C
IMR 4350 is one of my favorite powders that provides excellent velocities and often, superior accuracy in a number of calibers. In answer to your question, no, loads have not been "watered down". That implies that load potential is not being fully utilized, as a cheap restaurant waters down beverages. Load data is entirely based on extremely precise statistical logarithms, developed by SAAMI, that are not apparent in the pressure listings. That is, current data is safe and correct for the same traditional powders. The older data was established before historic research proved them to be cantankerous, and potentially dangerous. Some of the books produced years ago were developed by bench testing, without the use of pressure measuring equipment, or even when it was available, insufficient numbers of test shots were made to define the working parameters if the powders. A working pressure of a firearm is the maximum, not necessarilly the norm. In fact, it's rarely the norm, and it should never be viewed as the target pressure to attain with any powder. IMR 4350 is one of the best powders for top velocities, but as with other slower burning powders, it tends to react unpredictably outside of its comfort zone, and those who push it by watching "pressure signs" have found themselves in emergency rooms or with a stuck bolt on a hunting trip. Loading data is absolutely not watered down for the legal department, as is often suggested. Quite the contrary. I have run into a great many published loads that are simply too much for high grade, modern firearms, which is why the best advice is to never assume a top load is safe in any gun without carefully approaching it, and immediately backing off when things show the slightest signs. My 257 Roberts uses much of that powder, and its most accurate loads are slightly below maximum, but are extraordinarily accurate, which means far more than any velocity that I sacrifice. Keep this always in mind... Each 100 fps is worth only 22 yards of performance in terms of trajectory, and energy, and it rarely means more than 1/4 MOA. I can name some old manuals that had flat-out bad data that I found excessive back when the print was new. Enjoy your powder, and know that it's doing what is responsible for its long popularity.
Omg funny like cornflakes in a box.Thank sir my favorite video so far
I know this is old video, but this was confusing, 10% is 3.6 grains, rd to 4 grains, not .4, and I thought we were starting below max, you started at max of 36. So just going with .4 grains though, if you start 10% up, 32.4, then the increments would be 32.4, 32.8, 33.2, 33.6, and 34. Not close to the max 36. Do you keep adding .4 until you get close to 35 or 36? In other words, starting load is 32.4, moving up, not 36 (max load) then move down (in my mind for safety).
I've been working up an incremental load for my Leupold 2x7 scoped CZ 308 Winchester. Winchester once fired brass, Hornady Interlock SP150's, CCI 200 primers. Start 43 gr in .5gr increments to 44.5gr. Tightest groups 43gr and 44 gr - nice. I thought it odd that I didn't shoot the 43.5 load as well. I did another series today using Hornady once fired brass, same powder, bullet, & primer. This time in .4 increments - 42.6, 43, 43.4, 43.8, 42.2. The 43 load again shot very well as did the 44.2. Is it unusual that I would have two loads shooting very well and the loads in the middle not quite as good? Yes, I imagine marksmanship could be a factor but I reached the same "accurate" loads in different sessions. It was a bit coldish this morning but not bad - maybe 30F. I took a break between sets to let the barrel cool. Walked to the target, examined the brass, cleaned off the powder residue and generally just took my time. Hmmm.
Oh, and IMR 4895 powder
Ray Nelson
You have a good load. Extruded powders are not that sensitive, and may have a broad range of accurate loads. It is not unusual for two better loads to bookend a lesser load. But one set of groups does not spell the whole story, as any number of variables exist. Be certain of your benchrest technique.
Copy Blue. Thanks again for the advice!
If you are using a 700 Remington in 22-250 I think the twist rate may be 1:14. I have a similar rifle and my research tells me that a 52 grain bullet is the max for stabilisation. Of course you know more than me but will a 60 grain bullet stabilise?
The 22-250 is classically loaded with 55 grain spitzer bullets. It's not the weight, but the length that affects stability. The 14 inch twist 22-250 will stabilize heavy 63 grain semi pointed bullets but may not stabilize certain, long 55 grain ballistic tip boat tails such as Hornady produces. Twist is a length issue, not a weight issue.
@@GunBlue490 Yes sir and that's the reason I would consider using Barnes solid copper bullets.
@@larrymor As you're probably aware, Barnes solid copper bullets are considerably longer.
I knew a man who was a hunter and loaded his own ammo. He was experimenting and ended up losing an eye out at a range one day. It could have been worse. The moral of the story is do not try to set any records with your gun and ammo or you just might bag yourself when out hunting one day.
The other lesson to learn is wear eye protection. Like a seatbelt you may never need it, until you do!
How accurate are those Lee powder measures? (yellow plastic)
Sir, My question involves the term "old 4831." The late Bruce Jennings, Jr, subject matter expert on all things Newton, used "old 4831" in his .256 Newton loads. Erring on the side of safety due to not knowing if "old 4831" is faster than "new" 4831 or 4831SC, I have always loaded a couple grains less. What are your thoughts on "old 4831" vs today's 4831? I assume Mr Jennings was talking about 4831 from when Bruce Hodgdon started. Thank you.
I was once given a couple of pounds of original H4831 about 35 years ago and tested it with my Sako 270, both accuracy and over my old Chrony. It was slightly slower than average by less than a grain in a maximum load for the same pressures and velocity. I've certainly experienced far greater variation between lots made during production by Scotland and Australia in the early 90s, which varied by over 300 feet per second with identical charges. According to Hodgdon, Short Cut SC4831 uses the same loading data as H4831, and that has been my experience with it. It's simply easier to meter, pour, and because it stacks better, generally avoids the issue of compaction in dense loads. Powder burning rates constantly change over the years with different manufacturers and among lots. There is no such thing as a old versus new burning rate. Any given lot can be faster or slower than another in any time period, and loading density has as much to do with variations in chamber dimensions, bore smoothness, primer heat, and bullet hardness than in burning rates. The loads written about decades ago by Newton, O'Connor, and others have no relationship to whatever loads may be used in any cartridges at any time in history. Their printed pet loads were frankly over the top, and quite hot, which may have worked with the relatively soft bullets of the day. My stern advice is to never under any circumstances, assume any load with any powder is safe or provides a particular velocity in any gun. Further, while powder can last many decades in storage, it's burning rate absolutely does change over time, and it's not necessarily slower or faster. Every load should be approached incrementally, increasing one percent at a time, when any change is made. Any new lot of powder can be considered a possible change in pressure by a significant level, by as much as five percent, especially if made by a different plant.
@@GunBlue490 Thank you. Like you, I use H4831SC b/c it meters so well and produces good results most times. I recently acquired the Speer Reloading Manual for Wildcat Cartridges #4. One can tell by the typeset it is over 50 years old. In fact, I believe it was printed in 1960. I will follow your advice from the two videos wrt working up loads in my .256 and .30 Newton rifles. GBU and GBA! V/r FV
Personally, I own a trickler but I always find myself using scoops for test loads
GunBlue, so your saying a charged load would be as consistent as a weighed load? What is exactly the difference in the two?
My pet load in the last barrel I shot ended up being about 10% over max call out for the book load and running an interference seating of the bullet. Without any pressure signs. When I test I usually look for 1 or 2 nodes that that particular barrel likes in speed, then I will play with the load either +/_ 1 gr either way in .1 gr increments. I will then play with seating depth till I find the most consistent load for a window of temp and humidity. I chamber my own barrels to bench rest quality, using custom reamers either by PTG or JGS. I always turn necks, I fire form brass ( all blue box) then speed them and divide them up accordingly. I seat bullets with the same neck tension and I strive for ES and SD in the single digits. I agree with the statement about wind but you can adjust for that, the waterline I believe is a little different, that's where consistent reloading comes in I feel. In the discipline I compete in, matches are won and lost at the reloading bench. When you are shooting at a 5 inch X ring at 1000 yds a .25 moa flyer high or low could cost you a match, left or right would be my bad, either I got caught in a change up in the mirage or wind or didn't read it correctly.
Anyway, back to my original question about zeroing balance beam scales, do you zero statically or with a given weight?
BTW, I really liked your video on annealing. I am going to start doing that myself here soon when I get my annealer built. I go through so much brass in a season that I have to do something to get a little more life out of them. I presently discard brass after 4 firings because the consistency goes away and I hope by annealing the brass I can regain some of that and save on the wallet also.
Keep up the good work sir.
On a side note, I swear I have meet you before, or someone that resembles you, I ran into that person several years ago in Washington state.
I zero my 45 year old balance beam with the simple static method. I have checked it over the years on occasion with bullets of known weight, and it's absolutely dead on. Scales have no reason to change, unless they are abused. Powder and primers vary considerably more than any charge weight would show. I understand your reasons for fussiness, but I have done all the same things, and have tested velocities too. One cannot compel a bullet to go into the same hole by simply having exact powder charges and all things uniform. You may be led to believe that, but internal ballistics do not correspond that way, and no ballistic lab has ever reached that conclusion, either, or they would simply publish one load per cartridge. The best that can be achieved is "most consistently uniform" or "generally more".
I never said there is one load. Each and every rifle/barrel has a happy load and possibly two happy loads.
I will say though, depending on the powder, I have seen .5 grain of powder will create an additional 50 fps to 75 fps of muzzle velocity. In normal hunting situations that is nothing to be concerned with.
I shoot F class, I am not on a bench, I am connected to the rifle. Everything matters then. Bench rest shooters look for the tightest groups closest to the X or V depending where your shooting. When I compete it is the X or the V that counts to win. One tenth of a grain may not matter at 100 yds. but it does at a 1000 yds. That is why I use scales that measure to .01 gr and weigh each and every load.
My original question, which you answered, was about zeroing scales. You use a bullet of known weight (that can vary +/- 1.5 gr, that is a known in match bullets) I have 4 different scales, I use only two of the four regularly. I have a problem when you can take a verified calibrated weight and and put it on a supposedly zeroed scale and come up with a different weight between the scales. I can do this all day on any scale you provide. I have adopted the procedure as to set the balance beam scales with the calibrated weight/s and then confirm the point on the digital (that has also been calibrated) that measures to .01 gr.
Vince G
Velocity variations occur normally, with the closest possible powder measurements. F class shooters did not invent precision shooting, nor can any degree of scrupulously measured loads alter physics. Thousand yard shooting has been going on for a century, and nothing is new, and attempting .01 grain measurements are certainly not new. I was doing precision electroplating to preciseness of less than .0002 in 1968 in work that helped put a man on the moon. Everything in your sport has been done for a very long time and uses technology that is very long established for many decades, using cartridges, and in some cases, powders that have been around for over 100 years. If you think F class shooters invented precision shooting or perfected it, you are incorrect. You asked me a question, and I answered you. Please do not condescend to me. I didn't derive my knowledge in a vacuum.
Thank you for such a fast reply. I really enjoy your videos, very informative, were you a teacher or something? Which powders would you suggest or have used for heavy .223 bullet loads. Thank you again.
Like the Marines ... Left, Left, Left right Left. Great information in all your videos. I have not heard any one thing that I don't agree with, very knowable.I have learned a lot.
I still want you to be my Daddy!!
Thank You.
I know this vid is not cartridge specific but this week. I have undertaken a new cartridge I have had no experience with, the 6mm br norma. I have heard you vaguely mention this cartridge in one video is there any special things I need to know about reloading this little darling? I'm packing away my long range rifles and moving to a precision custom varmint rifle I bought from a friend that never fired a shot in it enjoyed the videos
Randall Harrington
I spoke of the 6mm PPC, but am not personally familiar with the 6mm Norma BR. I'm certain that it is very efficient, though I don't have any knowledge of its velocity. If it is within 100 fps of the 243 Winchester for individual bullet weights, it would satisfy any hunting need. Be sure it has the correct twist rate for the bullet lengths you require.
thanks for that u have been a great help , there will be more questions shortly just to finalise reloading , umm just wondering do use adi powders in the US and I need a load for ar2209 for my 204 Ruger it's not listed do u have any load for this powder
Hi how you doing I know you use to load for the police I've been trying to find out how a starting load in the load data manuals compare to standard factory loads all videos have great thanks
Police departments generally use factory produced ammo these days due to liability issues and training requirements. Standard factory loads are made to SAAMI industry specifications which details the pressure limits as well as cartridge dimensions. Ammo makers may or may not load to full SAAMI pressures, though they generally may be considered safe maximums. Loading manual publishers also adhere to SAAMI specifications when developing load data, so their maximum loads are held to the same pressures that manufacturers use. Because loading manuals have no control over the component combinations used, or the many variables of seating depth, bullet hardness, die adjustments, etc, which give different pressures than factory tested standard loads, they list "starting loads", which is a safe place from which to proceed. Due to those many variables, any reduced load may actually give standard, maximum pressures in a given combination.
@@GunBlue490 Master Blue I'm new to loading now I understand why we have to work up our loads on non persision standard loads You are easily the
most knowledgeable gunman on the internet Thanks
I've had so many miss-charged cases by doing the "loading military cadence" sometimes stick powder gets stuck in the tube and results in a low charge. i've taken to FLICKING/Tapping the neck of the powder throw to let the powder release consistently.
Stuck powder charges is another issue, and has nothing to to with using a routine. Certain powders do not flow correctly through certain measures. Banging a measure is a treatment for a systemic problem that requires a look at the cause, not a temporary remedy.
If the load data shows it is using a Winchester case with a specific power and primer and bullet would it be safe to use a different case name brand like Remington or federal ect ? or is there some data somewhere to show what the different powder charge would be. aka conversion table. This would be for rifle or pistol.
Different headstamps will have different internal volumes, which affects pressure. Never mix headstamps or trust a powder charge in a different headstamps brass. I.e. A safe charge in Winchester brass, may be over pressure in Remington brass. Always work up to loads
I would prefer to stand. My work area i toss the cases in a ammunition can on my side and draw near. I wanted it on the sides and it worked out well. But I had to do it in a cubicle. Bad idea for the power being made. That was capping cases. For measuring propellant and inserting bullets I want a new work space that has more room. The chance of explosion should go well down and make a better build. The circumstances have made things poor and results follow. I know what I really need and more room is one of those things
I really like your videos. They have a lot of good information, even for a seasoned loader. I have one question I would like to ask you, Let me set this up. I use a combination of balance beam and high quality gem scales for weighing my charges (I shoot competition at 1K btw). I also use check weights, that have never been touched by hand, for verifying the accuracy of the scales for any given charge. I use a RCBS 1010 scale and a gem pro digital. When I check zero on the beam scales and then put in my particular charge weight with the check weights, I then again re zero my scale. I will do the same to the digital but of course I get a slight deviation (were in the +/- .02 grains) . I try to keep all my loads within +/- .01 grains for my rifle, for a proven load. (I believe matches are won and lost on the re loading bench)
If the balance beam is set to zero initially and then the check weights are added and then re-zeroed would it be the correct scale or the digital that is zeroed to the check weights?
I have never been able to determine if the check weights are off or are the scales off. ( Which comes first the chicken or the egg)
I have graduated my balance beam scales so that I can get within +/- .05 grains but I am very anal on being within +/- .01 grains.
That random flyer I get off the waterline is it because of my shooting or is it because of scales?
I would be interested in your opinion.
Keep up the good work, I want to personally thank you for what you do, it is very informative.
Vince G
If I read you correctly, you are speaking in terms of hundredths of a grain, and you are measuring to one hundredth. In the ballistic universe, all measurements are divided to nothing more specific than a the tenth of a grain, which is indeed a degree of precision that ends the quest. Powder does not burn with the exacting precision that affects any charge weight to a degree in excess of a tenth, in even the smallest capacity case. My many years of accuracy testing have confirmed to my absolute satisfaction that weighing charges has no advantage whatsoever over measuring them. I have tested weighed loads against charged loads many times and have never found any relevance in the least. In fact, the charged load can outperform the precisely weighed one on any given day, simply because the accuracy game is far more than weighing bullets and powder, and the slightest half mile per hour breeze can shift a bullet off course unexpectedly, twenty times farther than half a grain of powder. I cannot agree with your assessment. If you want precision, use single based extruded powders, load them to within a hundredth of their average charge weight, and you will have arrived at the absolute limit of a cartridges potential. In a 222 Remington case that holds 20 grains, that would be two tenths. I don't know of a measure that throws charges less precise than that. Ammunition does not react to white gloves, hair nets, and laboratory scales.
How do you feel about the RCBS Little Dandy Powder Measure Rotors? Given that they are a fixed powder charge it seems there is no way the charge can ever change compared to the adjustable unit that you use?
Harry Callahan
They are what you describe. They are fixed to specific charges. Adjustable measures adjust to specific charges. Both deliver specific charges, whether fixed or infinitely adjustable. Adjustable measures do not "change", nor are they less precise. This 40 year old RCBS measure charges with precisely the same precision as any fixed measure with the same powders. My Lee disk system is fixed with specific, gauged holes that are measured by cc (cubic centemeters), which I convert to grains by a specific ratio of each powder. My MEC shotshell reloader uses fixed charge bushings that provide specific charges assigned to specific powders in exactly the same way. The RCBS fixed system is not new science. They work just fine, but are indeed fixed, and no one's system is all inclusive, with every charge weight. In many situations, the desired charge falls between the engineered bushings or hole sizes, so using them is nothing less than a compromise. If my 45 likes 5.2 grains of a particular powder, but the closest I can get with a fixed measure is one or two tenths different, which is a lot for that small case and is simply not the sweet spot, I am out of luck. I have never in my life had any occasion where an adjustable measure was unable to deliver consistent, accurate, repeatable charges that provide the ultimate in accuracy. Ball powders are precise; extruded powders are sometimes imprecise, but hugely forgiving. In any event, no fixed measure can throw a more precise charge than an adjustable measure that is fixed at the same volume. I will always go with an adjustable measure, wherever it's possible, where I can fine tune the volume. Powder lots are inconsistent in volume to a small degree, so fixed measurements can swing up and down accordingly, and one has to run out and buy a different measure bushing, or adapt to something else. It's another marketing gadget that most folks really don't need, designed to attract dollars.
I have a difficult time understanding, how you find out whether or not to make the charge a tenth or a fifth less than what the book says? Or does the book also detail those increments as well? Just a side note, I will be taking a hand-loading class at sportsmans store.
The general published rule, when dealing with a new load, is to start with ten percent less than the maximum stated load in the manual. A tenth is 10%, but never drop by a fifth, which is 20%!
hello gunblue...after watching this video,i;ve decided it was time to purchase a new powder measure..i like the rcbs...they offer a quick change version,which actually is only a few dollars more than their standard version..it seems to have added value for the convienance factor..have you had any experience with this version..thanks for your thoughts, jb
jon b.
Nope, mine is 45 years old. They changed the bored dimentions to sell two drums. With the small drum, mine will accurately drop over 65 grains, so larger loads are accurately dropped by just dividing the charge by 2 and doubling. They apparently changed the capacities of the small and large, but I would still prefer working with the smaller one, which cuts a smaller column, but just be sure to use a light to check your loads afterwards so you don't accidentally half charge.
If you don't have the funds or live in a small studio apartment do you recommend the Lee loaders?
Daniel Gonzalez
If you mean the pocket loaders, they will give you some fun, but are tedious for more than a few rounds. Call them and get a catalog. They have presses and pedestal stands, and even a hand press that works wonderfully, to fit all budgets and space accommodations, no matter how small.