Tom, Thank You! This explains the adjustable hosel better than any other description I have ever seen. I agree with Ed Reeder. This should be mandatory viewing before anyone buys an adjustable hosel driver.
A necessarily long video that does a wonderful job of explaining how adjustable hosel drivers work and what they don't do. Tom just tells it like it is, no BS. Viewing this video should be mandatory before anyone considers buying an adjustable hosel driver.
Hi Tom, just wanted to say thanks for putting this video out there....I'm a pro, and I have an adjustable big name driver that I really like and have not played around much with the shaft sleeve until recently, and I found it very confusing since I couldn't understand how a closed clubface could loft up....I thought to myself surely they don't want me to resquare the face cause that's the only way I could see it happening, and I guess sure enough that's what they mean.....You're the ONLY person I could find on the internet that stated that clearly. In my professional opinion, this makes the loft element of these sleeves somewhat BS, because while it does work if you rotate the club that is not a preferred way to play and I would never teach my students that. The vast majority of players do not have the ability to hold that club square even when it is soled properly let alone adjust it by eye to do so....my take is that these things are really only good for working in two directions. Up and Down to impact lie angle and by rotating so as to open or close the clubface. While the later will have some impact on loft it will be the inverse of what the manufacturer will tell you...and will likewise hit the ball more left or right with that adjustment. So if you need a club that hits higher but has a closed clubface at address then you'd better buy a higher lofted model to start. Thanks again Tom!
Tom, I would like to express my appreciation for your very intersting and detailed video on adjustable hosel Drivers. I recently purchased a Callaway XR 16 and was confused on the settings. Your video was clear and concise and I now know how the diferent settings will help me and what they mean. Thanks again! Gene
Tom--Terrific explanation as to how the "Big Box" adjustable hosel works--and you're correct in that they do not tell you to "square the face" to get the specified changes. In addition, I'd like to thank you for the explanation as to why and how TWGT makes their adjustable hosel driver and the corresponding data sheet that documents the actual loft, lie and face angle specifications whether or not the club is allowed to set on its sole or is manually manipulated to a face-square position. Best Regards, Stephen Yourth
That made so much sense. I have a cobra fly z and my husband has the Nike fly vapor both adjustable hosel. And you are so right. There was no explanation with out purchase. Can't wait to try our drivers for real this time
Either one will work fine for me considering I can't stand looking at a face that is not square. None the less, glad he made this video because you get none of this information when you buy an adjustable driver. Bought my first adjustable driver recently and I had to go to UA-cam to learn how it works. Haven't touched the loft adjustment yet...may not have to. Haven't bought a new driver since the around 2005...and the only reason I did was bc I came back to golf and all of a sudden my old 8.5 degree driver wasn't getting the ball up in the air like it used to bc, based on everything I've heard, the golf balls have changed drastically. All this new adjustability blew my mind. I used an old 8.5 degree Taylor Made 320ti with a stiff and stiff tipped shaft for years. My 3 wood is still an old Callaway Big Berta War Bird...and still happy with it...but I just couldn't get the 8.5 degree in the air like I used to. Swing speed hasn't changed. Still around 115 on avg with the driver.
Fantastic video I never understood any of this until this video thank you taking the time to explain this I just purchased a epic adjustable O-Zone not happy
Many thanks for this detailed explanation. IMO, if we are flexible in our ball position, changes in perceived loft with adjustable drivers can be offset, maintaining sole to ground relationship, by ball position back or forward in stance. eg when driver is adjusted to more loft, face will appear closed which can be offset by ball position back in stance.
I figured that out the hard way with an SLDR and hit a Titliest 913 d2 with lie adjustment as I am a slicer (or was) and the .75° upright lie angle now makes the face square when you "loft up" kinda funny taylormade prides themselves on lofting up but Titliest does it way way better with independent lie adjustment...I'm now hitting the ball very very straight with a lesson as well but yes you are exactly right and some manufactures are doing this the right way and some it's just loft. Great video...
Very informative video. Just ordered a Ping G400 Max and being an engineer I knew something had to give. I think It would be a good idea at address to pick the club up 90 degrees in front of you and square it like I do my irons at address before putting the club behind the ball. Thank You very much for the video.
Hi Tom great demonstration ! just an idea...or another way to look at it do you think using adjustable hosels can make people more comfortable at adress with a specific club ? let's speak about a 15+2°/-2° 3 wood i'm a +1 HCP so i don't know if i'm accustomed to a square face, but i find that to get a square face with the 17° option i have to set the ball way back in my stance....or push my hands way forward... when it's in the 13° option i tend to set up with ball more forward, and hands even with the ball, not in front at all...which suits me better, but anyway... would you say that the adjustable hosel is handy for a player that has address position preferences ? so he can keep the same effective loft yet have a more comfortable adress and ball positions
Thanks Tom. That was eye opening to say the least. loved all the information. I am one of the lucky ones who had myself fitted and am able to hit the driver fairly straight. I hit a fairly high ball. I am wondering if I go to a less loft would I be able to hit it lower. Your input would be appreciated Thank you.Ramsay
Now I am wondering if I set my 3 wood (big Bertha 2014) to the D setting which is supposed to be 1° upright will be the right way to go since I'm not looking to loft that or my matching 7 wood up? (Like I said the Titleist is set at 11° from 9.5 original and .75° upright which works great absolutely great) don't buy an SLDR if you don't plan on keeping it at a neutral loft...but I'm curious about my fairway woods since it worked so well with the driver. Thanks again great video
Hello Mr. Wishon, thanks for taking the time to explain all this . I'm a left-handed 63-year-old who has had poor driving results for about 12 years now. My U.K. hcp has drifted from 11 to 22 in that time . I seem to score best by settling for a 3 or 5 wood off the tee . Do you have any L/H drivers that would help me, and any stockists or fitters in the south of England I could consult ? Thanks in anticipation of a reply , Nige .
Since you are in the south of England, that puts you very close to one of the very best fitters on the planet - Richard Kempton of Simply Golf. Call him and without question he can get you fit for a driver you can hit well. His phone # is 0732 852 322. Richard’s fitting studio is in Hadlow, in Kent.
Tom Wishon Hello again ! Funnily enough I used to live 6 or 7 miles from Hadlow until I upped roots and moved to the west country. It's a 3 hour drive from where I am now , I'll certainly give Richard a call today and try to arrange a fitting for when I'm in that area . Thanks for your kindness , Nige .
I'm not sure the club will sole itself to the degree you're claiming. A tee box is not like a hardwood floor. If you're playing an extremely well manicured course then the club might gravitate towards being completely "soled," but thats not the case for most golfers. If you're adjusting your driver 3/4 of a degree up or down the sole angle of the club isn't altered to such a degree that I think when put it down on turf grass that it will revert 100% to its resting position. Though I agree it would somewhat if you happen to play that way. I just don't believe that's how golfers set up to the ball. My bet is most players have the club gripped before they sole the club to hit the ball. It seems very awkward to me to rest the club behind the ball and then take your grip. For better or worse golfers once they've played enough probably grip the club the exact same way every single time. Unless you're hitting a specialty hook or slice and you change the face angle and then take your grip you're gripping the club in the same place every single time. That's why at the end of a season if you haven't regripped your clubs there's sometimes almost wear spots where you grip the club. I guarantee this constancy isn't at the whim of where the club is soled on the ground, blindly taking your grip after its soled. Then the grip would have uneven wear, after all the angle of the ground is constantly changing too, at least with iron shots. I always enjoy your passion for the game Tom, just happen to disagree somewhat here.
Wouldn't a lot of this have to do with the shape or geometrics of the sole? In other words....if an adjustable hosel driver sits well squared perhaps the designer has shaped the sole to "sit well" also when the club is for example turned to squared from a closed adjustment to add loft? Hope that makes sense....
Tom,,,thanks so much for a superb video,,,,,I do have a concern though that LIE is still not addressed sufficiently.....Case in point,,,the Hogan era wood driver Lie was 49-50 degrees-----today's drivers are 57-60----that is a HUGE gap----and Yes your bendable hosel will go to 54 degrees but that sill is 5-6 degrees off of what used to be the norm,, (but you are much better than most of the industry),,,,,i would challenge you to look at the sole of today's player's drivers at address,,,,,90% are Big Time Toe up by most players......explanation,,,,,,,well Joe Jackass needs that so the toe will turn over and maybe create a straight ball instead of a slice,,,,,or with today's drivers the "Lie doesn't really matter because our soles are rounded",,,,,,,,Ok then,,,,why do the tour players have much flatter lies than the average consumer can get.......The Remedy,,,,,,,buy a REAL expensive Tour Issue Head or just live with a $600-$700 driver with 8-9 degrees toe up lie and try to adapt----but please keep spending money on our gimmicks to feed our endeavors like the Tour and worthless MARKETING R&D that sells clubs but does not fix results........thx for your time. steve
What is most critical is the dynamic angle of a club face through the impact zone against the ball. Many golfers, even with corrective lessons, have the issue of not being able to consistently square the club face due to improper forearm/wrist/hand release. For those that make contact with the toe well lagging club face center (degrees open), having the face starting from a relatively closed position at address serves as a compensation for an inadequate release. It comes down to a matter of degree of severity vs. the degree of compensation possible within the club's design limits. Not stating that a given club or adjustability thereof can cure an inveterate slice; properly adjusted it can reduce its severity.
I learned a lot in this video, but I’m still missing something. Isn’t the new technology just replacing the old method of customizing a persimmon club by drilling a different shaft angle? If you can adjust it to the correct angle, isn’t that preferable to the fixed angle before this technology came along?
As you wrote, back in the days of wooden heads and genuine club makers with full machine shops, the club specialist would custom craft drivers & fairways to spec from halfway finished (undrilled) heads. That or send the specs to specialty companies such as Louisville Golf to produce custom heads for the local shop to install the shaft and finish. The process could take two to five weeks to complete. Folks had a Lot more patience back then.
I always thought it was a marketing gimic , I was taught to open club face weaken my grip to play fades and opposite to play draws ,I found I don't have to do so anymore as I have it set to play fades , and I swing in to out to play draws on the same settings . and have a neutral gripp
That's due to the dual cog hosel assemblies these companies utilize. Before shutting down its hard goods division, Nike made an excellent and simple hosel within hosel mechanism that effectively did the same thing.
I don't understand how face angle is anything other than controlled by the golfer? Is Tom suggesting that your grip should be relative to how a club sits on the ground? I take my grip basedbefore even setting the club behind the ball.... for a "closed face" I just grip strong.... Am I missing something?
I have the adjustable but I don't set it at any changed offset. So it is like not having an adjustable hosel at all. I am a 2 cap, and hit the ball straight the vast majority of my shots. I think a lot is about ability... some have the game, but most do not. They just don't have the time it takes.
+Sen Lin Sen, this applies to EVERY adjustable hosel sleeve adapter. They ALL work in the same manner regardless what is put on the sleeve or regardless what the companies say in their marketing. Every adjustable hosel sleeve changes the angle of the shaft in the head as you rotate it. So if you SOLE THE CLUBHEAD ON THE GROUND when you address the ball after each sleeve change, you are changing lie and face angle - not loft. The ONLY way you can change loft with any of these hosel sleeves is to HOLD THE FACE SQUARE after the sleeve rotation which means you cannot sole the head on the ground. But when you do that, you cannot have a separate face angle specification to go with the loft specification at the same time.
+Tom Wishon Thanks for the response Tom, I think I got a good understanding now. Let's see if I pass this quiz :so say with the new TM M1 10.5, the spec page says if I adjust the loft to 12.5 then the face is 4 degree closed and the lie is upped to 58 from 56. If I were to square the club with the adjusted loft, then my club would be 12.5 degree but the face angle would still be 0 and the lie would also stay the same at 56 instead of 58, correct?
+Sen Lin I’m sorry I cannot answer your question about this specific driver. I would have to have this driver in my hands to make changes in the hosel sleeve to then see what the measured effect is on the specs. I will say that in looking at the photos of the M1 driver, it does not have a protruding sole piece to try to change the face angle as did the earlier model R7 driver from Taylor made. The M1 only has the two sliding weights on the sole, and neither one of these is intended to try to change the face angle. Back when the R7 was on the market, that orange color protruding disk on the sole did change face angle while the sleeve changed the angle of the shaft into the head. But the combination together did NOT result in the stated face angle and loft specs when the R7 driver was soled in the address position. We did a very extensive study of this in a published report to back up that statement. So with the M1 driver, there cannot be a face angle change if you always turn the clubhead in your hands to the square face position to obtain the loft change from the hosel sleeve. And if you sole the driver after the sleeve rotation, you will get a face angle change - the FA will become more closed as you turn the sleeve to a higher loft number and sole the head, or the FA will become more open as you turn the sleeve to a lower loft number - but the loft won’t change if you sole the head. So you can’t have both a face angle and a loft change on the same head with this driver.
I'm confused by golfers who sole the driver on the ground to set the face angle prior to the swing. Particularly as they often do so several inches behind the ball. The driver isn't designed to be hit from the turf. Its designed to strike the ball 2" or so above the ground when teed up. Recognizing this, club designers and engineers design drivers with loft, lie and face angle optimized for the point of impact (w/isn't the surface of the turf or several inches behind the ball.)
The R1 and R11 are indeed different from the other adjustable because of the face angle dial on the sole. It is true that these dials do change the face angle of the head. But having done very careful measurement analysis of the R1 during an extensive investigation of this, I can assure you that the actual measured face angles for each dial position are in no way what the dial designations say that they are. If you are interested, we would be glad to send you a copy of our extensive investigation report on the R1 and three other adjustable hosel drivers which includes precise loft, lie and face angle measurements for every combination of hosel sleeve position and sole dial position on the R1. If you wish to have a copy, send us an email requesting such to contact@wishongolf.com. Thank you for your comment and for asking about that difference in these specific drivers so we could have the chance to explain and answer.
+sean hen The purpose of the TM's sole plate is to give the appearance of the driver looking more closed, square or open AT ADDRESS. Since you're change the loft of the driver, you'll either naturally open the driver or close the driver head and some golfers don't like that at address so the sole plate makes those adjustments AT ADDRESS.
So with my Callaway Optifit hosel by having +2 on the stated loft I am closing the club face and by having the D setting I am making it more upright ? meaning the club is a closed as it can get ?
technically it's not always true that the golfer needs to manually square the face to get the stated loft from the adjustable hosel. if a manufacturer has the Default position in either the minimum loft or maximum loft positions, then no squaring of the face is needed for both these positions (obviously the default position will give the default loft, and the opposite loft position will also give the stated loft with zero change in face angle). that being said no manufacturer does this as it would only allow loft change in one direction as default would be in either minimum or maximum loft--this is not good for marketing and business reasons. also, it is not sufficient to square the face to get the loft adjustment stated by the manufacturer. it is ALSO required that the shaft have no lean toward or away from the target at address. this is because when you SOLE the club, the minimum loft position causes the shaft to lean most away target and the maximum loft position causes the shaft to lean the most toward the target. if the shaft is not returned to neutral at address then the advertised loft is not being delivered.
Since the Surefit works off dual cogs, yes. Even as a club fitter with @20 years experience I have to utilize the Titleist fitting guide when fitting their adjustable clubs. Their proprietary system is more intricate than others such as Callaway.
As long as the golfer sets the driver in the same position at address he will surely see the different results in each position. Why would a golfer in the past buy a closed faced driver to then open it at address to make it look square? Some golfers like a closed face, some square, some open so doesn't the adjustable driver accommodate more golfers ?
What I find interesting is that some golfers would NOT square the face of their driver to their target when they setup to hit the ball. WHY would any golfer NOT do that? Going by your video it would appear that I am one of the FEW golfers that always aim the face of my driver, or any other club for that matter, to my target when I setup to play a shot. To me, anyone that just sets his driver down on the ground and takes their grip with the face aimed either left or right of their target is NOT being very smart. Seems totally DUMB way to play the game in my opinion.
Don, there is a VERY Important fitting specification for drivers and woods that is called the FACE ANGLE. It has been a hugely important fitting element for golfers who slice or hook the ball and who cannot manage to change their swing through lessons to be able to hit the ball straight. Some years back, Golf Digest had a cover story in which their research showed that 70% of all golfers slice the ball in varying amounts. To fit a golfer who slices the ball with a driver and woods which are designed with a CLOSED FACE ANGLE is a valid and successful way to help these golfers reduce the amount of their slice, keep the ball in play more and enjoy the game more in the process. A closed face angle is such that when you SOLE the driver or wood, the face points a little to the left or to the hook side of the target. The slicer then soles the closed face driver/wood, makes his normal swing, and the amount he leaves the face open at impact to cause his slice is then reduced because the head started out with a more closed face. You can’t just take any driver and turn the face more closed to do this correction because when you do that, you lower the loft too much for the golfer. So the loft and the face angle both need to be specs which are independently made on the head so when you sole the head on the ground, you get the loft you need for your swing speed and your angle of attack while you also get the face angle correction for the tendency to slice the ball (or to have an open face angle for those who hook the ball chronically). Hope this helps and thanks for your question.
+Don Fisher I like to see my driver face open at address, but have a slightly stronger grip, so the face is "square" to me at impact, anyway. When I have it square at address, it just looks like a hook machine waiting to happen. Different things look different to different people. Whether or not it "dumb" I guess is up for debate, as driving is my strong suit (I range from a 1-4 index, and hit 72% of FWs this season).
+larrybud I would NOT dare to tell you, a single digit golfer how to aim the face of your driver. It's pretty obvious that you know how to aim the face of your driver to WORK with your swing and strong grip. YOU set up with an open face on your driver, but you combine that open face with a somewhat Stronger grip, which helps to get the club face back to Square at Impact. This is totally FINE, and I will not argue with it at all. I would say that for YOU, this is a SMART way to hit the ball. But for most golfers that use a WEAKER grip, doing the same thing would NOT be the SMART way to hit the ball. When you are using an iron, my point of aiming the face at the target is that much more important, because the sole of an iron is smaller front to back, compared to a driver, so the clubs sole does NOT have much of a role in how the club face sets up at address when you lay the club head on the ground. I hope this makes a bit more sense and helps explain why I said it was DUMB not to aim the face of the club at the target at setup.
+Tom Wishon Thank you for your reply. I understand the importance of face angle with a driver or wood. in terms of club fitting and being able to hit the ball straight. I think it would be FAIR to say that YOU believe that a good way to correct for a Slice would be to use a driver with a Closed face that sets up a little to the left of the target. Nothing wrong with this thinking or way to correct for a slice. Me on the other hand, believe that another way to correct for a slice, would be to Aim the club face AT the target, and then use a Stronger Grip to help return the face to Square at Impact. Either way should work well for a Driver or woods. as the sole is wide enough that the face angle will be fairly consistent when you set the club on the ground behind the ball. NOT so much the case with an iron with a much smaller sole surface in contact with the ground. MY way works well for BOTH irons and woods, YOUR way works well for wood but NOT so much for irons. I prefer to use ONE method to hit straight shot rather than being forced to use TWO. Just my opinion of course.
This is just a way to say his gimmick is better than the other gimmick. Funny how he had designed an adjustable driver before. So people who bought that Wishon driver were dumb to fall for the prior rhetoric. As far as giving each buyer instruction manuals with purchase of an adjustable driver, again, he rips on his competitors and gives a reason why he is the savior to save you with this pamphlet with each driver of his. Well, newsflash, every big boy company has exact instructions online explaining how to adjust their settings. It costs them zero cents per driver for this and wastes zero paper or trees to do this unlike your pamphlet. So there is that. This entire not squaring club at target at address thing is buffoonery. 99.5 percent of golfers set up with clubface aimed square at Target. Their poor swing paths cause their slices or hooks. Even beginners know to aim the clubface wear they want ball to go. Your first time shooting a gun, did you aim the sights left or right of your target? Hell no, and basic human nature tells them to aim face at target. The big boys are able to spend fortunes on R&D and design advanced products. Unfortunately Tom can’t so he piggybacks on whatever new R&D designs the big boys designed and has China make a head. Or open source a head that China already stole a bingo. Bigs all are big marketing companies really and Wishon can’t compete there either. So, head to the free internet and bag on the guys he copies as marketing. I have never ever seen a player with these sticks and I’m not surprised. Guessing they are component heads and some hobby club builder in his garage or basement epoxy’s the stuff together for ten bux profit per club. Or they are experts cause they attended the golf works club builder two day seminar. Funny stuff
I have played golf for over55 years. I have never heard a more articulate explanation of Driver loft/lie/ face angle! Excellent! Thank you!
Tom, Thank You! This explains the adjustable hosel better than any other description I have ever seen. I agree with Ed Reeder. This should be mandatory viewing before anyone buys an adjustable hosel driver.
A necessarily long video that does a wonderful job of explaining how adjustable hosel drivers work and what they don't do. Tom just tells it like it is, no BS. Viewing this video should be mandatory before anyone considers buying an adjustable hosel driver.
Hi Tom, just wanted to say thanks for putting this video out there....I'm a pro, and I have an adjustable big name driver that I really like and have not played around much with the shaft sleeve until recently, and I found it very confusing since I couldn't understand how a closed clubface could loft up....I thought to myself surely they don't want me to resquare the face cause that's the only way I could see it happening, and I guess sure enough that's what they mean.....You're the ONLY person I could find on the internet that stated that clearly. In my professional opinion, this makes the loft element of these sleeves somewhat BS, because while it does work if you rotate the club that is not a preferred way to play and I would never teach my students that. The vast majority of players do not have the ability to hold that club square even when it is soled properly let alone adjust it by eye to do so....my take is that these things are really only good for working in two directions. Up and Down to impact lie angle and by rotating so as to open or close the clubface. While the later will have some impact on loft it will be the inverse of what the manufacturer will tell you...and will likewise hit the ball more left or right with that adjustment. So if you need a club that hits higher but has a closed clubface at address then you'd better buy a higher lofted model to start. Thanks again Tom!
Tom,
I would like to express my appreciation for your very intersting and detailed video on adjustable hosel Drivers. I recently purchased a Callaway XR 16 and was confused on the settings. Your video was clear and concise and I now know how the diferent settings will help me and what they mean. Thanks again!
Gene
Tom--Terrific explanation as to how the "Big Box" adjustable hosel works--and you're correct in that they do not tell you to "square the face" to get the specified changes. In addition, I'd like to thank you for the explanation as to why and how TWGT makes their adjustable hosel driver and the corresponding data sheet that documents the actual loft, lie and face angle specifications whether or not the club is allowed to set on its sole or is manually manipulated to a face-square position.
Best Regards,
Stephen Yourth
That made so much sense. I have a cobra fly z and my husband has the Nike fly vapor both adjustable hosel. And you are so right. There was no explanation with out purchase. Can't wait to try our drivers for real this time
Either one will work fine for me considering I can't stand looking at a face that is not square. None the less, glad he made this video because you get none of this information when you buy an adjustable driver. Bought my first adjustable driver recently and I had to go to UA-cam to learn how it works. Haven't touched the loft adjustment yet...may not have to. Haven't bought a new driver since the around 2005...and the only reason I did was bc I came back to golf and all of a sudden my old 8.5 degree driver wasn't getting the ball up in the air like it used to bc, based on everything I've heard, the golf balls have changed drastically. All this new adjustability blew my mind. I used an old 8.5 degree Taylor Made 320ti with a stiff and stiff tipped shaft for years. My 3 wood is still an old Callaway Big Berta War Bird...and still happy with it...but I just couldn't get the 8.5 degree in the air like I used to. Swing speed hasn't changed. Still around 115 on avg with the driver.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this topic. Much appreciative for this information.
Fantastic video I never understood any of this until this video thank you taking the time to explain this I just purchased a epic adjustable O-Zone not happy
Many thanks for this detailed explanation.
IMO, if we are flexible in our ball position, changes in perceived loft with adjustable drivers
can be offset, maintaining sole to ground relationship, by ball position back or forward in stance.
eg when driver is adjusted to more loft, face will appear closed
which can be offset by ball position back in stance.
I figured that out the hard way with an SLDR and hit a Titliest 913 d2 with lie adjustment as I am a slicer (or was) and the .75° upright lie angle now makes the face square when you "loft up" kinda funny taylormade prides themselves on lofting up but Titliest does it way way better with independent lie adjustment...I'm now hitting the ball very very straight with a lesson as well but yes you are exactly right and some manufactures are doing this the right way and some it's just loft. Great video...
Very informative video. Just ordered a Ping G400 Max and being an engineer I knew something had to give. I think It would be a good idea at address to pick the club up 90 degrees in front of you and square it like I do my irons at address before putting the club behind the ball. Thank You very much for the video.
Hi Tom
great demonstration !
just an idea...or another way to look at it
do you think using adjustable hosels can make people more comfortable at adress with a specific club ?
let's speak about a 15+2°/-2° 3 wood
i'm a +1 HCP so i don't know if i'm accustomed to a square face, but i find that to get a square face with the 17° option i have to set the ball way back in my stance....or push my hands way forward...
when it's in the 13° option i tend to set up with ball more forward, and hands even with the ball, not in front at all...which suits me better, but anyway...
would you say that the adjustable hosel is handy for a player that has address position preferences ? so he can keep the same effective loft yet have a more comfortable adress and ball positions
Thanks Tom. That was eye opening to say the least. loved all the information. I am one of the lucky ones who had myself fitted and am able to hit the driver fairly straight. I hit a fairly high ball. I am wondering if I go to a less loft would I be able to hit it lower. Your input would be appreciated Thank you.Ramsay
Now I am wondering if I set my 3 wood (big Bertha 2014) to the D setting which is supposed to be 1° upright will be the right way to go since I'm not looking to loft that or my matching 7 wood up? (Like I said the Titleist is set at 11° from 9.5 original and .75° upright which works great absolutely great) don't buy an SLDR if you don't plan on keeping it at a neutral loft...but I'm curious about my fairway woods since it worked so well with the driver. Thanks again great video
Hello Mr. Wishon, thanks for taking the time to explain all this . I'm a left-handed 63-year-old who has had poor driving results for about 12 years now. My U.K. hcp has drifted from 11 to 22 in that time . I seem to score best by settling for a 3 or 5 wood off the tee . Do you have any L/H drivers that would help me, and any stockists or fitters in the south of England I could consult ?
Thanks in anticipation of a reply , Nige .
Since you are in the south of England, that puts you very close to one of the very best fitters on the planet - Richard Kempton of Simply Golf. Call him and without question he can get you fit for a driver you can hit well. His phone # is 0732 852 322. Richard’s fitting studio is in Hadlow, in Kent.
Tom Wishon Hello again ! Funnily enough I used to live 6 or 7 miles from Hadlow until I upped roots and moved to the west country. It's a 3 hour drive from where I am now , I'll certainly give Richard a call today and try to arrange a fitting for when I'm in that area .
Thanks for your kindness , Nige .
I'm not sure the club will sole itself to the degree you're claiming. A tee box is not like a hardwood floor. If you're playing an extremely well manicured course then the club might gravitate towards being completely "soled," but thats not the case for most golfers. If you're adjusting your driver 3/4 of a degree up or down the sole angle of the club isn't altered to such a degree that I think when put it down on turf grass that it will revert 100% to its resting position. Though I agree it would somewhat if you happen to play that way. I just don't believe that's how golfers set up to the ball. My bet is most players have the club gripped before they sole the club to hit the ball. It seems very awkward to me to rest the club behind the ball and then take your grip. For better or worse golfers once they've played enough probably grip the club the exact same way every single time. Unless you're hitting a specialty hook or slice and you change the face angle and then take your grip you're gripping the club in the same place every single time. That's why at the end of a season if you haven't regripped your clubs there's sometimes almost wear spots where you grip the club. I guarantee this constancy isn't at the whim of where the club is soled on the ground, blindly taking your grip after its soled. Then the grip would have uneven wear, after all the angle of the ground is constantly changing too, at least with iron shots. I always enjoy your passion for the game Tom, just happen to disagree somewhat here.
Wouldn't a lot of this have to do with the shape or geometrics of the sole? In other words....if an adjustable hosel driver sits well squared perhaps the designer has shaped the sole to "sit well" also when the club is for example turned to squared from a closed adjustment to add loft? Hope that makes sense....
Tom,,,thanks so much for a superb video,,,,,I do have a concern though that LIE is still not addressed sufficiently.....Case in point,,,the Hogan era wood driver Lie was 49-50 degrees-----today's drivers are 57-60----that is a HUGE gap----and Yes your bendable hosel will go to 54 degrees but that sill is 5-6 degrees off of what used to be the norm,, (but you are much better than most of the industry),,,,,i would challenge you to look at the sole of today's player's drivers at address,,,,,90% are Big Time Toe up by most players......explanation,,,,,,,well Joe Jackass needs that so the toe will turn over and maybe create a straight ball instead of a slice,,,,,or with today's drivers the "Lie doesn't really matter because our soles are rounded",,,,,,,,Ok then,,,,why do the tour players have much flatter lies than the average consumer can get.......The Remedy,,,,,,,buy a REAL expensive Tour Issue Head or just live with a $600-$700 driver with 8-9 degrees toe up lie and try to adapt----but please keep spending money on our gimmicks to feed our endeavors like the Tour and worthless MARKETING R&D that sells clubs but does not fix results........thx for your time. steve
A Taylormade rep told me that if I lowered my M1 from 10.5 to 8.5 squaring the face at address would increase the loft back to 10.5. Is this true?
Thank you for confirming that I am one of those who cannot adjust to a closed club face angle. It just throws my swing off. Cheers
What is most critical is the dynamic angle of a club face through the impact zone against the ball. Many golfers, even with corrective lessons, have the issue of not being able to consistently square the club face due to improper forearm/wrist/hand release. For those that make contact with the toe well lagging club face center (degrees open), having the face starting from a relatively closed position at address serves as a compensation for an inadequate release. It comes down to a matter of degree of severity vs. the degree of compensation possible within the club's design limits. Not stating that a given club or adjustability thereof can cure an inveterate slice; properly adjusted it can reduce its severity.
I learned a lot in this video, but I’m still missing something. Isn’t the new technology just replacing the old method of customizing a persimmon club by drilling a different shaft angle? If you can adjust it to the correct angle, isn’t that preferable to the fixed angle before this technology came along?
As you wrote, back in the days of wooden heads and genuine club makers with full machine shops, the club specialist would custom craft drivers & fairways to spec from halfway finished (undrilled) heads. That or send the specs to specialty companies such as Louisville Golf to produce custom heads for the local shop to install the shaft and finish. The process could take two to five weeks to complete. Folks had a Lot more patience back then.
I always thought it was a marketing gimic , I was taught to open club face weaken my grip to play fades and opposite to play draws ,I found I don't have to do so anymore as I have it set to play fades , and I swing in to out to play draws on the same settings . and have a neutral gripp
I suspected it , but now I know it. Thx!
Kind regards from The Netherlands.
There are the answers I was looking for! Thank you.
Well, I thought I knew something, that is, until I watched this video - thank you!
Hi Tom, does this apply to the Callaway & Titleist hosels? On their charts, it shows that you can change both independently of each other. Cheers!
That's due to the dual cog hosel assemblies these companies utilize. Before shutting down its hard goods division, Nike made an excellent and simple hosel within hosel mechanism that effectively did the same thing.
I don't understand how face angle is anything other than controlled by the golfer? Is Tom suggesting that your grip should be relative to how a club sits on the ground? I take my grip basedbefore even setting the club behind the ball.... for a "closed face" I just grip strong....
Am I missing something?
Great informative video Tom.
Smartly put Tom...great info.
I have the adjustable but I don't set it at any changed offset. So it is like not having an adjustable hosel at all. I am a 2 cap, and hit the ball straight the vast majority of my shots. I think a lot is about ability... some have the game, but most do not. They just don't have the time it takes.
Hi Tom, does this apply to the Nike adapters? Thanks, very informative.
+Sen Lin
Sen, this applies to EVERY adjustable hosel sleeve
adapter. They ALL work in the same manner regardless what is put on the
sleeve or regardless what the companies say in their marketing. Every
adjustable hosel sleeve changes the angle of the shaft in the head as you
rotate it. So if you SOLE THE CLUBHEAD ON THE GROUND when you
address the ball after each sleeve change, you are changing lie and face angle
- not loft. The ONLY way you can change loft with any of these hosel sleeves
is to HOLD THE FACE SQUARE after the sleeve rotation which means you cannot
sole the head on the ground. But when you do that, you cannot have a
separate face angle specification to go with the loft specification at the same
time.
+Tom Wishon
Thanks for the response Tom, I think I got a good understanding now. Let's see if I pass this quiz :so say with the new TM M1 10.5, the spec page says if I adjust the loft to 12.5 then the face is 4 degree closed and the lie is upped to 58 from 56. If I were to square the club with the adjusted loft, then my club would be 12.5 degree but the face angle would still be 0 and the lie would also stay the same at 56 instead of 58, correct?
+Sen Lin
I’m sorry I cannot answer your question about this specific
driver. I would have to have this driver in my hands to make changes in
the hosel sleeve to then see what the measured effect is on the specs. I
will say that in looking at the photos of the M1 driver, it does not have a
protruding sole piece to try to change the face angle as did the earlier model
R7 driver from Taylor made. The M1 only has the two sliding weights on
the sole, and neither one of these is intended to try to change the face
angle. Back when the R7 was on the market, that orange color
protruding disk on the sole did change face angle while the sleeve changed the
angle of the shaft into the head. But the combination together did NOT
result in the stated face angle and loft specs when the R7 driver was soled in
the address position. We did a very extensive study of this in a
published report to back up that statement. So with the M1 driver,
there cannot be a face angle change if you always turn the clubhead in your
hands to the square face position to obtain the loft change from the hosel
sleeve. And if you sole the driver after the sleeve rotation, you will
get a face angle change - the FA will become more closed as you turn the sleeve
to a higher loft number and sole the head, or the FA will become more open as
you turn the sleeve to a lower loft number - but the loft won’t change if you
sole the head. So you can’t have both a face angle and a loft
change on the same head with this driver.
I'm confused by golfers who sole the driver on the ground to set the face angle prior to the swing. Particularly as they often do so several inches behind the ball. The driver isn't designed to be hit from the turf. Its designed to strike the ball 2" or so above the ground when teed up. Recognizing this, club designers and engineers design drivers with loft, lie and face angle optimized for the point of impact (w/isn't the surface of the turf or several inches behind the ball.)
Ok,if I have a cobra f9 tour 4-5 wood I change the loft to 19 degree the grip will turn what happens if I have a rib grip
Would the R 11s and R1 adjustable sole plate tech not do the job of squaring the face? Mind you it wasn't mentioned on the instruction.
The R1 and R11 are indeed different from the other adjustable because of the face angle dial on the sole. It is true that these dials do change the face angle of the head. But having done very careful measurement analysis of the R1 during an extensive investigation of this, I can assure you that the actual measured face angles for each dial position are in no way what the dial designations say that they are. If you are interested, we would be glad to send you a copy of our extensive investigation report on the R1 and three other adjustable hosel drivers which includes precise loft, lie and face angle measurements for every combination of hosel sleeve position and sole dial position on the R1. If you wish to have a copy, send us an email requesting such to contact@wishongolf.com. Thank you for your comment and for asking about that difference in these specific drivers so we could have the chance to explain and answer.
+sean hen The purpose of the TM's sole plate is to give the appearance of the driver looking more closed, square or open AT ADDRESS. Since you're change the loft of the driver, you'll either naturally open the driver or close the driver head and some golfers don't like that at address so the sole plate makes those adjustments AT ADDRESS.
Thee best club fitter out there!
Your a pro thanks for your patient explanation
Can the adjustable club give you more lag with the club? ( 3 woods, 5 woods etc)
No. Unless the club head has a great deal of off set, lag is a product of technique not technology.
So with my Callaway Optifit hosel by having +2 on the stated loft I am closing the club face and by having the D setting I am making it more upright ? meaning the club is a closed as it can get ?
Aside from manual manipulation, yes you are correct.
Excellent video... thank you.
I have the Cobra F8 Driver and the face angle stays the same no matter what loft you set it too.
technically it's not always true that the golfer needs to manually square the face to get the stated loft from the adjustable hosel. if a manufacturer has the Default position in either the minimum loft or maximum loft positions, then no squaring of the face is needed for both these positions (obviously the default position will give the default loft, and the opposite loft position will also give the stated loft with zero change in face angle). that being said no manufacturer does this as it would only allow loft change in one direction as default would be in either minimum or maximum loft--this is not good for marketing and business reasons.
also, it is not sufficient to square the face to get the loft adjustment stated by the manufacturer. it is ALSO required that the shaft have no lean toward or away from the target at address. this is because when you SOLE the club, the minimum loft position causes the shaft to lean most away target and the maximum loft position causes the shaft to lean the most toward the target. if the shaft is not returned to neutral at address then the advertised loft is not being delivered.
Anyone you recommend in the Seattle area who shares the same philosophy?
Does this apply to the Titleist surefit hosel?
Since the Surefit works off dual cogs, yes. Even as a club fitter with @20 years experience I have to utilize the Titleist fitting guide when fitting their adjustable clubs. Their proprietary system is more intricate than others such as Callaway.
What about an adjustable weight driver?
Excellent explanation.
thanks for the explanations
The greatest! Thank you so much!
Really informative.
Loved it. Thanks so much.
Who voted this video down, TaylorMade?
Great explanation of it all =)
As long as the golfer sets the driver in the same position at address he will surely see the different results in each position. Why would a golfer in the past buy a closed faced driver to then open it at address to make it look square? Some golfers like a closed face, some square, some open so doesn't the adjustable driver accommodate more golfers ?
I did wonder how they worked.
"You kids get off my lawn"
Thanks !
What I find interesting is that some golfers would NOT square the face of their driver to their target when they setup to hit the ball. WHY would any golfer NOT do that? Going by your video it would appear that I am one of the FEW golfers that always aim the face of my driver, or any other club for that matter, to my target when I setup to play a shot.
To me, anyone that just sets his driver down on the ground and takes their grip with the face aimed either left or right of their target is NOT being very smart. Seems totally DUMB way to play the game in my opinion.
Don, there is a VERY Important fitting specification for drivers and woods that is called the FACE ANGLE. It has been a hugely important fitting element for golfers who slice or hook the ball and who cannot manage to change their swing through lessons to be able to hit the ball straight. Some years back, Golf Digest had a cover story in which their research showed that 70% of all golfers slice the ball in varying amounts. To fit a golfer who slices the ball with a driver and woods which are designed with a CLOSED FACE ANGLE is a valid and successful way to help these golfers reduce the amount of their slice, keep the ball in play more and enjoy the game more in the process. A closed face angle is such that when you SOLE the driver or wood, the face points a little to the left or to the hook side of the target. The slicer then soles the closed face driver/wood, makes his normal swing, and the amount he leaves the face open at impact to cause his slice is then reduced because the head started out with a more closed face. You can’t just take any driver and turn the face more closed to do this correction because when you do that, you lower the loft too much for the golfer. So the loft and the face angle both need to be specs which are independently made on the head so when you sole the head on the ground, you get the loft you need for your swing speed and your angle of attack while you also get the face angle correction for the tendency to slice the ball (or to have an open face angle for those who hook the ball chronically). Hope this helps and thanks for your question.
+Don Fisher I like to see my driver face open at address, but have a slightly stronger grip, so the face is "square" to me at impact, anyway. When I have it square at address, it just looks like a hook machine waiting to happen. Different things look different to different people. Whether or not it "dumb" I guess is up for debate, as driving is my strong suit (I range from a 1-4 index, and hit 72% of FWs this season).
+larrybud I would NOT dare to tell you, a single digit golfer how to aim the face of your driver. It's pretty obvious that you know how to aim the face of your driver to WORK with your swing and strong grip. YOU set up with an open face on your driver, but you combine that open face with a somewhat Stronger grip, which helps to get the club face back to Square at Impact. This is totally FINE, and I will not argue with it at all. I would say that for YOU, this is a SMART way to hit the ball. But for most golfers that use a WEAKER grip, doing the same thing would NOT be the SMART way to hit the ball. When you are using an iron, my point of aiming the face at the target is that much more important, because the sole of an iron is smaller front to back, compared to a driver, so the clubs sole does NOT have much of a role in how the club face sets up at address when you lay the club head on the ground. I hope this makes a bit more sense and helps explain why I said it was DUMB not to aim the face of the club at the target at setup.
+Tom Wishon Thank you for your reply. I understand the importance of face angle with a driver or wood. in terms of club fitting and being able to hit the ball straight. I think it would be FAIR to say that YOU believe that a good way to correct for a Slice would be to use a driver with a Closed face that sets up a little to the left of the target. Nothing wrong with this thinking or way to correct for a slice. Me on the other hand, believe that another way to correct for a slice, would be to Aim the club face AT the target, and then use a Stronger Grip to help return the face to Square at Impact. Either way should work well for a Driver or woods. as the sole is wide enough that the face angle will be fairly consistent when you set the club on the ground behind the ball. NOT so much the case with an iron with a much smaller sole surface in contact with the ground. MY way works well for BOTH irons and woods, YOUR way works well for wood but NOT so much for irons. I prefer to use ONE method to hit straight shot rather than being forced to use TWO. Just my opinion of course.
Don Fishe
This is just a way to say his gimmick is better than the other gimmick. Funny how he had designed an adjustable driver before. So people who bought that Wishon driver were dumb to fall for the prior rhetoric. As far as giving each buyer instruction manuals with purchase of an adjustable driver, again, he rips on his competitors and gives a reason why he is the savior to save you with this pamphlet with each driver of his. Well, newsflash, every big boy company has exact instructions online explaining how to adjust their settings. It costs them zero cents per driver for this and wastes zero paper or trees to do this unlike your pamphlet. So there is that. This entire not squaring club at target at address thing is buffoonery. 99.5 percent of golfers set up with clubface aimed square at Target. Their poor swing paths cause their slices or hooks. Even beginners know to aim the clubface wear they want ball to go. Your first time shooting a gun, did you aim the sights left or right of your target? Hell no, and basic human nature tells them to aim face at target. The big boys are able to spend fortunes on R&D and design advanced products. Unfortunately Tom can’t so he piggybacks on whatever new R&D designs the big boys designed and has China make a head. Or open source a head that China already stole a bingo. Bigs all are big marketing companies really and Wishon can’t compete there either. So, head to the free internet and bag on the guys he copies as marketing. I have never ever seen a player with these sticks and I’m not surprised. Guessing they are component heads and some hobby club builder in his garage or basement epoxy’s the stuff together for ten bux profit per club. Or they are experts cause they attended the golf works club builder two day seminar. Funny stuff
wow thats so ignorant
This guy's a little shaky geez
That guy is the GURU of club making and a well respected man. You however, are not.
Who voted this video down, TaylorMade?