@N Y I’m currently on the phone with my lead Blast, Play last best friend- an ENFJ. She’s the absolute best and her Blast isn’t overwhelming. (She’s currently blasting to me about clothes.) The other two closest people in my life are a lead Blast INTJ and ESTJ. I’m a lead Consume, Blast last, so I find it interesting that I congregate with Blasters. I’m sometimes tempted to judge the function (it’s not my responsibility, and can’t people just Consume once in a while???) but then I remember I know lovely people who use it, and who use it without suffocating their listeners. There are extrovert Blasters who have my absolute love and adoration 💞
"Shut up for a second Dave. Take a nap." 🤣 Intuition is survival instinct to build on what we can prove, predict what might come even if we can't see it yet. Basically, Intuition is the focus on what cannot be proven.
And the source for all the sickening and maddening presumptions and false judgements. All in all, it ain't worth it! Better not to have it as a lead function
As a Ti dom, I found it interesting to see Dave & Shan, double Te, trying to work this stuff out. Without intentionally been patronising, I think they were adorable, lol. You can see they are logical and are concentrating on the reasons for things, but it does drain them and use up all their willpower to focus on ONE concept in great detail and depth. Interesting. Great vid as always.
I love the new videos lately where Dave and Shan are bringing up examples and then perfectly demonstrating their own examples with each other 😂 helps me to know what to look for
It sounds like two different survival tactics. Sensory tries to by good at Acting (doing the thing right now) Intuition tries to be good at Predicting (guessing the future). One want to be good at solving problems, another want to be good at avoiding problems. when you Act, you get your feedback immediately, but when you Predict your feedback is push back into future, until some other things takes place. Maybe this delay in feedback builds up this frustration / impatience ?
Oh god. Now I see it. That's why I hate waiting so much. I set up all this dumb stuff in the future then I have to fucking wait for it. I just want to smash it with my Se hammer, see reality change and get it over with. Anyways, well put. That is an interesting connection between the more "feminine" intuition follows the more "feminine" feeling function in spotting problems/inaction.
I don't know if sensing is acting though. Maybe it is observing and acting at different times. :/ I think of intuition as being focused on unreal things (concepts, possibilities, etc.) that can't be proven (maybe), whereas sensing is focused on real, provable, concrete reality. The past and the present are both set in stone because they either already happened or are currently happening right now, but the future and possibilities both aren't. When it comes to various problems I see people bring up, my thought is always... okay, so what is the plan of attack? Like in science class, they say IF a certain meteor struck Earth, all this reaction would happen. Me: Okay? What is there for me to do about that right now?
@@aprilhelm518 Hi and thanks for replaing. I never said that Sensing is Acting. I said that, for Sensing, immediate Acting is preferable way to solve problems, that's all. Sensing definitely is not Acting. Sensing is Sensing.
@@kabelmovies Kind of sounds the same, imo. I've heard the stereotype, though, about Ni NOT acting, and I don't really believe it. But as for focus, of course sensing types, being concrete, don't plan THAT far into future or possibilities.
I know that you may be reluctant to but I would be very interested in reading about your thoughts / analysis of this video / "this whole Te thought exercise." As I mentioned in my comment, OP needs Ti depth!
Why do I feel like I've seen these two comments like 100's of times before... Albeit in many different (and very specifically detailed) articulations...? Oh & btw... Yes please. Will they listen tho? Eh. If a middle finger counts, then yes.
@@gooddaygene8355 Dominant Ti/Ne user here. I am new to the Objective Personality channel, so excuse me if I point out obvious take aways from the way Dave and Shan talk. Having that out of the way. . . I found the excercise to be greatly insightful. What intruigued me wasn't the ideas themselves. But how they reached that conclusion as a collective (Dave and Shan). For example, it was sufficient for me to just read the dictionary reference on Merriam-Webster for the word Intuition. Intuition noun a: the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference b: immediate apprehension or cognition c: knowledge or conviction gained by intuition Here, as a Ti user I can already eliminate option (c) of the defnition since they are vague/misleading and hard to understand and literally uses the word to define itself which creates a loop (word-ception if you will). The 'b' part is something that wasn't mentioned very much in the video. If you'd like an example: * Imagine you come home from work after a long hard day. All you want to do is take off your shoes & socks and relax on the sofa. * You get home, excited for the 'to be' chill session. * You open the door and remove your shoes & socks and feel the cool hardwood floors or the warm carpets of the house. * You hold your shoes in your hands to put them on the shoe rack, since that's where they belong and you like to keep clean, like they say, "out of sight out of mind". * Only to find.. That the shoe rack is missing. * Now you remember that your wife/mom/roommate had to dismantle it in preparation to make your move to a new apartment easier. * You curse the inconvenience, and find a different place to keep your shoes. Your mental peace destroyed. . . What Dave and Shan were talking about in the video is 'a'. Although the definition is very obvious to me. To explain it to someone else is a different matter. In the video, they brought out good examples of how to explain such a concept to a sensory person. All the while Dave had to fight his inner monologue during his speech, as much as he tried, he couldn't stop his inner monologue of 'Why'. The 'why' tries to connect the sensory information of the 'now' with something that has happened before. It tries to get the patterns in order. So that the probability of what will happen next is high in his mind. And I assume like for myself, it brings him some comfort knowing how things will proceed. Since I'm mostly a perceiving type of person, I am also excited by the future un-explored possibilities, leading to a bunch of chaos. Some Intuitive users would rather use their future prediction to ensure a sustainable stable environment. Neither approach is right or wrong. The analogy I like the most is the invisible wall, specifically the way an amoeba reaches around a rock for food. I correlate this 'pattern' (:p) with modern First Person Shooter games like Counter Strike, Call of Duty or Valorant. If you walk beyond a wall without giving it a 'second thought' (I love the term second thought). You're gonna get shot in the face. Seasoned veterans will even know where your head will be with respect to the ground and aim exaclty in that spot. You need to have the intuition to crawl/crouch or Run beyond that wall to avoid your impending doom. For FPS games the intuition would be as follows: 1) Hey there is opening to walk across 2) This reminds me of when I walked across 'that other' opening and got shot in the face 3) How can I get past this hurdle, that may or may not be the same fate? (My dominant Ti at work here) 4) I got it, I can try the following: a) Crawl b) Run c) Wait for another person to go first and see if he/she gets shot d) Turn back e) Try peaking or throwing a flash bomb/grenade f) Think about: Is there a different/safer way to reach the same goal/location? (Ti-ception) All this to avoid the previous negative pattern of getting shot. 5) Then, my intuition tries to make patterns with the above options until I get Si/Se proof that one of them is better. 6) In the absence of further information to feed my Ti/Ne. I would try the above options in the order of preference of how I feel about them. I think the amoeba example serves well for all the non-gamer peeps out there as well :)
@@caveatlector2022 if Dave ignores "his" Te which is really our Ti reasons aggregating into Te directed at them then no. He will double down on his Ti/Fi and call that jumping. Which in a way IS apt. If Shan ignores her Ni and her hyper Ne/Se mind just runs the info we send her way through whatever Te filter of "irrelevant / relevant" information (no idea what it is "set to" in the moment) then no, they won't. They would NT argue about the concepts they ironically hold Fi dear and use circular logic to refute our observation in order to maintain the integrity of their NT concepts because to change that would be SF painful for them. Pain "exists" in the 2nd and 3rd function because we kind of don't realize how much we lean on the 6th and 8th. Or, another way, the imbalance in our 2nd and 4th is not with 1 and 2 but actually 6th and 8th. All functions may be balanced so they can work as a complete "process." Let us take a 3d approach to the stack. Stop the 2d! Add depth;)
@@Vegetoyesh okay I adored this! I am a Gamma so Alpha quadra is SO alien to me. I can attribute your explanations and even why you would be explaining how you are. A glimpse into your world. But it is a glimpse, not a full experience. I have to muse over on much of what you wrote. I appreciate the gaming analogies as I can better understand them:)
Nah its because shan keeps cutting him of, going along with the mindset of 'I have something more important to say than you', the disharmony is real with this one
@Juan Antonelli Short answer; the sexual energy of your saviour functions, masculine or feminine. Example, Ti-Si FF (double feminine) means Ti and Si are both feminine, Se-Te FM (feminine masculine) means Se is feminine and and Te is masculine
@@endgamez7621 im curious, as a feeler when i read ur comment “how the fuck” etc etc my thoughts immediately went to “oh no he might upset the other person with his tone”, but then i saw by clicking on ur thing and it showing ur other comments that ur an ISTP, so now i feel like u didnt have the intention of rudeness, instead ur expressions were just the bluntness you’d see of someone who has Ti over Fe, am i right? cutting straight thru the bullshit, where me a feeler would be afraid of others interpreting it as mean?
I kind of had this idea of Se - Ni - Ne - Si being a chain, if you view it from a societal point of view. Se = gathering chaos/raw data Ni = processing raw data into abstract concepts Ne = gathering abstract concepts Si = further processing the abstract concepts into something useful for the tribe
10+ minute video on the coping mechanism of intuition users against the fact that they have to deal with the sensory world due to their physical body and limited information conveyer (the language) 😂
Sensory: yes a bee sting is bad but that doesn't mean that bee-look-alike (bumblebee) is also bad. Intuition: that stripey insect (wasp) looks similar to the bee that stung so-and-so. I'm avoiding the look alike too.
I now feel heavily compelled as an ENFP to make a video on how i feel this(intuition)works, as I’ve been decently good at articulating my inner thoughts, feelings, protocols,and world.
Lol do it man! I would watch it. Typed as ENFP a long time ago, but less sure of that the more I learn. That said, after finding stuff like OP, LiJo, Binyamin I feel like I'm getting a greater understanding. Now this is my ranking of what I MIGHT BE in order of greatest to least likelihood (looool): ENTP, INTP, ENFP, ESTP, INFJ. Help me out of this madness. Provide me with concepts. Ty, Sincerely, Thanks
@@rubening the calling is real 😮💨 lol ive been thinking up a lot of stuff id need to throw it all together. So i havent been totally useless. I just need tend to some major irl Si first… so as an enfp.. only god knows how long thatll take. But hey, last week i made progress! I finally got my state plates… after like 3 months and a parking ticket later. Yay for driving legally! Yeet.
Love their vibe! NE for me when it kicks in. There is ussally 4 options that quickly go through my mind. - reminds me off, known connect concepts. - I create new concept. - what is the concept from the other is using. Concept I don’t know yet. Curiosity is key. - what is most likely based on situation.
Ni is similar. Based on gathered information (memories, anecdotes, things I've learned), what is the most likely scenario? The information we use isn't abstract but basic data points. Who, what, when, where, and most importantly, WHY? The "this reminds me of" I think fires off when talking to others, but if we aren't sharing, I don't think that thought happens.
The intuition talk reminds me of a story about Darwin. "The story goes that Darwin was sent a sample of the flower in 1862. Upon seeing its long, narrow nectar tube, he predicted that there must be an insect with a very long proboscis (a tongue-like part) that could reach deep within the hollow space to “drink” the nectar at the bottom. In so doing the insect would bump into the flower’s sticky pollen, enabling its transfer from one flower to another."
@@einsame_Maria They are pretty amazing to observe. You would think it being a moth that its movements are just as sporadic as the next, but these guys are so nimble and fast. The first I saw one, I thought I was looking at a misshapen hummingbird.
Basically Intuition is another way of gathering information in order to survive. We have sensing through our five senses but it's not sufficient enough for survival because we can't have all of the information all at once. So in order to survive your brain has to find a way to create more sensory in order to make decisions. Let's say I'm driving and I pull out my map to see where I'm going. Let's say that at some point I spill coffee all over half of the map rendering that half unuseable. I need a full map in order to get to my destination but since reality no longer has a full map I have to turn the map I have into a full map and follow that map to my destination. But since this is only a full map that my brain created, whether I get to my destination or not is up in the air. Basically intuition is your ability to create more sensory to go off of when you don't have enough to make a choice.
I feel S is like a need to feel safe Right now! If you’ve watched FRIENDS show, wherein Monica and Ross are shown to have such close knit families, and so is Joey’s. Guess what? Monica is a classic esfj and ross is an istj or istp i guess, joey and rachel ate both esfp. Interestingly, Chandler(who’s parents are shown to be very less involved in his life and are divorcing) and Phoebe who is shown as an orphan are both Entp and enfp . What i mean is, chandler and phoebe didnt ‘GET’ the worldview already built by their ‘families’ like Ross monica rachel joey got. So their’s not this need to ‘desperately’ become what is asked. Chandler and phoebe had to slowly built on their own ‘worldviews’ bcoz there was noone to ‘give it to them’ so that they could later built on that ‘downloaded worldview’ with their intuition and collect patterns around THAT downloaded worldview. What i mean is no wonder S types are most common and especially in Asian countires even now bcoz of the ‘control factor’ of the families and therefore S types have a ‘downloaded worldview’ around which they have to use their intuition. Ie S types dont know tht a worldview exists outside the one that’s downloaded since beginning. Howver, for intuitives their worldview is more’ original’ than downloaded and therefore is able to see things which a S type wouldnt be able to see bcoz of their ‘limitation to that box’ . And the N cant understand the S bcoz he doesnt know about the box which S is operating within.
This is how Te shows the world in real time Ni has reached a blasting point. With Ni of this caliber, Te is commanding the system this is now the concept that the tribe should be working with.
The way I see it, having a good, accurate intuition is like being a master of context clues. Kind of like being able to fit the remaining pieces of the jigsaw puzzle with only a few pieces there. The better and more accurate your intuition is, the less pieces you need to see the whole picture and complete the puzzle. Obviously nobody’s always right but personally I find a lot of the times my intuition to be accurate. Of course the only way to build that intuition is to do the sensory work and find out and learn through life, or learn it through someone who has, and just reading books and online discussions about things will build your intuition. But don’t forget the sensory 😆
Intuition is all about making connections, so it is a constant game of relating things to other things. You just don't have to explain the connection to yourself. "Reminds me of" probably wasn't the best way they could have explained it, but the message is accurate.
Sensors give you blank stares when abstract thought is required? I've walked this earth for over 30 years and I've never met a single person who couldn't understand abstract thought.
N is about the human tendency of language I believe. Because saying all leaves are in the category "leaf" is intuition too, because their also all different. They are not the same. But humans categorize so they can have a tool whom with they can know how to handle reality without having to do the same whole thinking process say after day.
I am a 49 year old female intj letting you know science world will ostracize and defame you because you are open, right, and happy. I’m a loyal fan forever. Brilliant. Reading my entire life and family systems learning out loud. Scary but laudable.
man i would love a vlog style type channel from yall. i think it would be cool seeing yall go thru a slice of ur day commenting on things like “there goes Dave’s Fi” LOL
If you have a tip on how to explain abstract patterns or principles to sensors, I would be sooo grateful! It's incredibly frustrating to have to come up with and walk them through 50 tangible examples, before they start seeing the light. (Analogy alert) Imagine trying to solve a 5000 piece puzzle with someone who has to measure out the exact dimensions of every single piece, before they can try putting a few together, instead of looking at the whole picture first. Is it about fear of zooming out, can it be helped? Cheers!
As an Se dom: Your analogies seem waaaaaaay too complicated. Even this one. I couldn't even read it all. I didn't have the patience to do it nor would it have helped me understand you better since you relate it to something - a a sensory thing - have seen, experienced or . Not everyone puzzles and therefore won't get connected with you as quickly. If you try to see what their interests are or what they already understand, they will follow you easier (for example if you know play football and are already familiar with that and they don't have to use any brainpower to try to understand your analogy and where its coming from, relate it to that and it's structures/rules etc. if possible). On top of that, I see that I have to use more brainpower to try to understand your analogy, and it isn't simple and quick. You shouldn't have to use brainpower to understand the analogy. You should use brainpower to understand the subject, and the analogy is just a very, very, very easy dumbed down similar thing that you can then relate to the subject you are trying to understand. It should be used sort of as a stepping-stone, not as its own subject. And another tip: try to make analogies that are as simple (and easy) as those you would use to explain things to a child. No joke.
@@nattifrutti Are you saying that you interact with people on the daily who don't know the definition of a puzzle but understand the intricacies of football? I need to hear more on this.
As a self professed intuitive, I understand the analogy in its entirety. :') (i dont just understand, i feel it xD ) I would like to also see what people think would help...
You can't really put all sensors in the same box. There's no system that would work with all of them. You just have to consider the needs and questions of the individual person. Basically, the solution here is to further develop your sensing function.
Yea, just how annoying it is to explain facts to an intuitive, the same people who believe in god, astrology and fairy tales. Especially masculine intuitives. Just because you imagine something in your head doesn't mean it works in reality.
Absolutely love watching you guys figure it out in real time. Was very TJ to me. An an Ne, I feel like I would just go off in the space and it would never fit into 10 minutes
I am pretty sure that "it reminds me" part is decision making. Intuition servers as an internal sensor. This is why intuitive types seem to skip sensory information. They do not. Intuition is an internal sensing. It is a decision making part which gives meaning to the collected information.
N is proposing what is possible. S proves or disproves what N proposes. Both are self v. tribe. Dave looks at internal possibilities and seeks proof in the external world.
INTJ here. YES! I do that ALL the time! That reminds me of...That reminds me of....That reminds me of... I even annoy myself with that. LOL But I can't help it. I'm making new associations.
I feel like when I'm explaining stuff, I'm "proving it... " Maybe with intent to provide context so my interlocutors can precisely walk in someone eles shoes & see the "what's" & "why's." Whereas when I'm listening, I'm internally "it's like" filtering & organising. I.E. "Oh! That's just like...." is what I use to walk in someone else's shoes & understand the "what's" & "why's." Then there's that one time (in that one OP NF Analogies vid) Joe Rogan asked RDJ to prove (or explain? Wait. Are they the same?...) "it" & the latter attempted to do so with: "It's like..."
I believe there is a quote or maybe even overarching thesis made by philosopher Schopenhauer, that could provide insight (potentially and if I understand it correctly.) It states that in short: "Humans and human intelligence is incapable of experiencing the entirety of the world or existence as a whole.. but rather what we experience is only and ever will be a collection of individual perceptions and associations we make with the physical world."
To anyone else like me, who rewinded the video because they wondered: "WHY would Dave wonder why"? at 5:09 : You're gonna read this comment and wonder why I would wonder why Dave would wonder why, and then someone else will wonder why you would wonder why I would wonder why, then someone else will wonder why they would wonder why you would wonder why, and then... Congratulations! You have discovered a completely useless infinite loop; also, you're an intuitive; an Ne-dominant, most likely! You're welcome!
I've thought this myself. Human cognitive evolution seems like Feeling and Sensory first, then Thinking and Sensory, then Feeling/Thinking and Intuition.
basically it was really simple when they talking about it in the tutorial video I took it in and just made two words for it, sensory is facts and intuition is imagination you have to use facts to put the imaginations together and you have to use imagination to put the facts together
Synthesis of myth or archetypal stories - systems thinking - abstraction - geometry - algebra... Etc ... Just N speculation of why N would be useful In an evoulotionary prespective- For passing on information to other generations in a way that could be used in different situations... Like a distillation of many S experiences into one grand narrative.... Useful for coming up with laws and general guidelines... the "culture" of the tribe
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one doing this to my fam .. all entj are prob figure it out the. Proceeded to brow beat until nobody appreciates there genius
As an intuitive I just see so many patterns with signs in people that I can almost guess people's signs... It is amazing... People who don't see the connections cannot be intuitives right? It is funny, some people see the patterns, others don't
Ni - Can't help but notice 'how I process' this metaphorically/subconsciously Ne - Doesn't understand a pattern until they know 'how much of this is new'
I honestly think intuition stores and relates templates of experiences. Specific instances are related to each other through that template. Kind of convenient to 'automatically' connect a current experience to other similar experiences - it's like the list of recommended videos - "hey, here's some potentially relevant information that could be useful for you to have readily accessible."
Sometimes I get confused between Ni and Si. But after Dave described Ni+Fi as "this situation reminds me of the feeling of this", I think that Si+Fi is kinda the opposite of this because it's more as comparing situations as they happened in the *real * world and percieving the current *reality * as you percieved the previous ones
When does it ever end? When you finally really ‘get’ that life is not a puzzle to solve. It is intrinsically unsatisfactory. So you stop struggling against it.
Not lead intuitive, most likely double observer, and the "reminds me of" is something I’ve caught myself doing consistently, to the point where I wondered if not other people were getting annoyed I said it so much. Tend to use it as a segue when I’m not sure the next thing I want to say is still on topic. Got it mixed up along the way, thinking for a while it was an Si thing, even though I’d already watched this video before 😅
That was super awesome! I believe exactly what Shan talks about here. Intuition is very important for our species and we shouldn't try to undermine it. We as Ni users sometimes know. And other times... well, this knowledge turns out to be bullshit.
I love the Te tag team here. Something Ti fails to understand is when they let their Ti out, is always boring. In contrast, I felt energized watching this video. ✌️
S vs N is my biggest doubt regarding Objective Personality. Shan said that intuitives "have to relate it to something that is familiar." I don't think that is true for Ne, at least. When I discuss the current world vs a possible future utopia, I ask people to imagine a super-advanced alien utopia, i.e. something that is NOT familiar. It's about imagination, which is more like the standard MBTI version of intuition. It's about future possibilities, not past known info. Dave says that even Ni plans for the future. Also, Dave and Shan say that N vs S is about overview vs details, but that is already a known NLP coin (big picture vs details), so it might be a new OP coin that is not specifically related to N vs S. I have other doubts about their view of S vs N, and I suspect it might be because they both have Ni rather than Ne.
For Ne the Si details are familiar. Without the "familiar" sensory, Ne couldn't function because it wouldn't have anything to work with. Relating and reassembling Si details in new ways creates the new possibilities. The big difference is in the way "past known info" is defined. Ni takes intuition itself as the known info ("what conceptual boxes have I already built") whereas Ne uses Si as a source of known info. The "have to relate it to something that is familiar" that D&S are talking about applies to Ne via connections. Ne connects known sensory information in new ways and thereby "creates". Ni connects new sensory information in known ways and thereby "narrows down".
When dealing with functions, many, including OP say "everyone does everything." So this affirms that all 8 functions affect us. Yet OP focuses on 4 of the 8? Half of the code. Only the front end programming, the front end, no back end? A great man once mused "Until you make the unconscious conscious it will direct your life and you will call it fate." Are you not only looking at the "conscious" by looking at the front stack / top four? In true Te fashion the NTJs of OP are expressing breadth and not depth by expanding the "code" via adding more coins. Look Ji deeper.
Technically you still have 2 conscious and 2 unconscious functions among the stack, the other 4 should be somewhat related to how the inital 4 are positioned in the stack
How will you make the unconscious conscious if you are not even conscious enough of the first 4 of them? And they last 4 are behind the first 4 function, if u develop and balance the first 4, you're developing the last 4 with them, simultaneously.
@@handreieiacasa and when you make the 2 in the top stack conscious you have the "bottom 4" to deal with. The top two are on the surface. Identify them, make the connections. THEN start your true hero's journey and go below, where the real monsters are.
@@FFakiha yes! Great question! I can only speak for myself (ISFP.) I Fi/Se fill my relations and experiences. My "body" and instincts know. It takes time for my NT "mind" to formulate and identify via language and concepts what my body was already experiencing. NTJ will have the model / language concepts in their head and have to connect it to their body (SF) tangible experience. Then you rinse and repeat because there are SO. MANY. LAYERS. Each type has to figure out their own relationship to their functions. To tie it together. And then keep going. We have a tendency to skip our "2nd" function. That is why most people are "jumpers" that is why "life begins at 35" that is when, hopefully most people become adults. You may have heard the second function be called the "parent" function. What is the difference between a parent and a child? A child is never at fault, no responsibility! A parent is always at fault for they must take responsibility and thus have power to CHANGE things. Take responsibility with your parent function. USE it. However it must be used. There will be all the resistance in the world for it is the "death" of your child. At least it will feel like it, but it isn't death as much as it is growth which HURTS. But one doesn't have to stop being Peter Pan. One can alway return and play with the child (3rd) function. And your 2nd will "protect" your third. After that... keep on going. For when we use the second function it opens up our 4th as both are the same orientation (i/e.)
4:59 it fascinates me how they miss the point when they talk about these things. They need an aware Ne saviour on their team. I don't 'look for' 'this reminds me of' moments. I notice them and they fit into the web of other things I've noticed and then I go 'oh hey, a pattern, these things lead the same direction' and then I follow that direction and find other things that 'fit'. Einstein looked at a clock on a train station and that started a train of thought that lead to the theory of relativity.
So TL;DR: intuition is our ability to infer causes, and we infer causes because it's advantageous to survival. Donno if you have to pull a David Hume and equivocate pattern recognition with causation; one might infer causes because there are Causes (i.e. necessary connections between things). Afaik causation is kinda hotly contested in philosophy right now - there's a kind of resurgence of direct realism atm, so as far as consensus might be concerned, it's either or.
Nothing quite like saying, "That reminds me of…" and getting blank stares as a response. And I'm like, "Oh, great. Do I really have to explain this?! Just kill me already. ~massive sigh~ We could have moved on to the next point 10 seconds ago."
I'm not sure whether I'm sensory or intuition dominant, but it seems clear from this video that my observers are in the middle as I can switch between the two more easily and while I lean toward saying I'm intuition dominant, I don't seem to neglect the sensory to the same degree as Dave seems to. I can make arguments for each, but the general structure of my type being more obvious is still useful. I will laugh if I end up having the same OP type as my Myers Briggs which it's still possible.
Let's get Jungian. More. Think about the cultures and even more Intuitive, their stories, their versions of _This is what it feels like. . ._ There are countless expressions of attempting to understand a Vision beyond vision. And I would think many don't like the term Imagination but it is essentially true. The imagination simply has to start aligning itself with known realities and proving itself. And just like other disciplines, once you "master" this alignment then you can begin to disassemble it once again. You can begin to intuit more things beyond what has normally seen and that. . . that too has many, many stories. The Eye of Maat. Jung also suggests that _Seeing Beyond_ what it is that we would prefer to _See_ is how we are best. And how we are frightened. edit: and maybe it begins with Uncertainty? Maybe it begins with that unsettling discomfort of eating a failure or mistake, which ultimate will not matter because... you will it away. Willpower itself is only imagination manifest. As a man once said, _"Do you think Gods' Will should be carried out by cowards?!"_
im talking about myself too here when i say this but intuitives have a way of sounding so pretentious when they talk but you can’t blame us/it’s justified because what we’re saying is essentially just spewing out from us like a faucet and not at all premeditated or fabricated. i like ur comment and the point u made
I also suggest you consider a standing desk as sitting for work will cost you life hours & health which can affect your marital situation, emotional & phys. Standing desk helps #inbed. Want to see you two sustsined. ;)
My Ne dom needs to know how a fact fits into my network of concepts. The whole system of relationships has to be updated if a new perception introduces a truly new concept, so first question is whether it’s “new” or just analogous to a concept I’ve already incorporated. --ENTP
I have also observed that intuition work by "association" or links. This is how intuition seems to process a ton of information in a moment. This is why reading nursery "rhymes" to very young children and getting them to remember them strengthens their intuition and memory. Before they learn words or as they are learning words the easiest way to teach "association" is through "rhymes"; which are the most basic form of word association. We intuitively know this, and this is why people often "associate" Eminem with being Ne dom. or Ne shadow, or being one of the intuitive-savior types in general. I'm Ni dom. and my ESFP Mother read me nursery rhymes over and over and over early on until I got it myself. This lead me into researching the "link" between nursery rhymes and memory; which the research of had "links" to intuition. Stupid video by the way! Just joking.
Totally had this situation of "prove it" sensory with my house mate. He is a heavy Ne user. Makes big observations. Me (most likely sensory dom) beats him over the head to explain himself. His response: "I don't know how to explain it, I'm just seeing this." I think make guesses for him to see if something sticks. It bugs me cause I am seeing somewhat the same sort of patterns but when the sensory is absent I try and find it! 😅
@@sophiaredwood5825 were you the one who was writing a fiction using mbti types as models for the characters? Sorry if it is not you, but I think the person had a book in the propic
@@handreieiacasa It’s going well for me!! And the book has been going… well, as much as anything can “go” with an ENFP. Not very far, though it says something that I’m still wildly interested in it after ten months of brainstorming and idealizing and constant digging for more information. It’s fallen into my Fi box and it won’t leave anytime soon. Blast last is a pain when it comes to bringing ideas to life, especially when all I want is for them to look perfect on paper, but I’m slowly overcoming that. It’s not easy. But in the meantime, I’m still trying to take in every bit of typology info I can, because I love learning more about these characters and about humanity in general. :))
I'm as sure as I can be that my husband is an S. (Masculine S, for that matter. If something bugs him he either smashes or throws it.) He's either ESFJ or an ENFJ jumper. But I'm leaning towards Si because, despite the fact that he makes guesses all the time, and he constantly talks about past experiences in an "I've seen this before" sort of way, he's not making his guesses, or referencing past experiences in a patterny, more global sort of way. Everything is discrete and specific. He'll guess that someone won't last long at the job because of a very specific, concrete singular past experience in which a guy (who may or may not be like the guy in question....) didn't last long at his job. He constantly brings up the same specific past experiences to illustrate and give credence to present day opinions/guesses. ... it's almost like a parody of what N's are doing. I wanted to run this past ya'll and see if you think I'm reading this right. It's not the "I've seen this before" so much as "I've had enough past experiences that I've noticed a pattern" that N's are doing (even if what they're saying is just "I've seen this before." ... right?
6:33 such a biased angle lol. If you can't see the pattern then you need to be lead through it step by step. I remember when I first learned Meyers Briggs, the facilitator for the career planning workshop challenged us to guess her type. On the last day I said 'You are ESTJ' and she asked - 'what makes you say that? Because you are right.' And I was like 'uh... Because I just worked it out in the last 10 seconds because of things I've seen this whole time?' I tried to spell it out but it was mostly vsuge if-then statements. (I'm INTP)
Blast: exists
Shan: Shut up for a second
😂😂
@N Y I’m currently on the phone with my lead Blast, Play last best friend- an ENFJ. She’s the absolute best and her Blast isn’t overwhelming. (She’s currently blasting to me about clothes.) The other two closest people in my life are a lead Blast INTJ and ESTJ. I’m a lead Consume, Blast last, so I find it interesting that I congregate with Blasters. I’m sometimes tempted to judge the function (it’s not my responsibility, and can’t people just Consume once in a while???) but then I remember I know lovely people who use it, and who use it without suffocating their listeners. There are extrovert Blasters who have my absolute love and adoration 💞
@@sophiaredwood5825 Shan is actually Blast Last. She actually has to work very hard at doing these videos. That's the joke.
The comment section: Well acktchually...
"Shut up for a second Dave. Take a nap." 🤣
Intuition is survival instinct to build on what we can prove, predict what might come even if we can't see it yet.
Basically, Intuition is the focus on what cannot be proven.
Based on what though, exactly?
@@caveatlector2022 exactly
@derp derpson
"exactly," what, exactly?
I'm asking for a literally tangeable analogy.
Metaphorically speaking.
And the source for all the sickening and maddening presumptions and false judgements.
All in all, it ain't worth it! Better not to have it as a lead function
@@ArasheNorto can’t imagine not looking into the bigger picture in life at an early age, I like being Ne
As a Ti dom, I found it interesting to see Dave & Shan, double Te, trying to work this stuff out. Without intentionally been patronising, I think they were adorable, lol. You can see they are logical and are concentrating on the reasons for things, but it does drain them and use up all their willpower to focus on ONE concept in great detail and depth. Interesting. Great vid as always.
I love the new videos lately where Dave and Shan are bringing up examples and then perfectly demonstrating their own examples with each other 😂 helps me to know what to look for
Intuition is like "I have half of the picture, so I draw the second half myself, based on what I already know"
It sounds like two different survival tactics.
Sensory tries to by good at Acting (doing the thing right now)
Intuition tries to be good at Predicting (guessing the future).
One want to be good at solving problems, another want to be good at avoiding problems.
when you Act, you get your feedback immediately, but when you Predict your feedback is push back into future,
until some other things takes place.
Maybe this delay in feedback builds up this frustration / impatience ?
Solving problems vs avoiding problems. Yes. 100%!
Oh god. Now I see it. That's why I hate waiting so much. I set up all this dumb stuff in the future then I have to fucking wait for it. I just want to smash it with my Se hammer, see reality change and get it over with.
Anyways, well put. That is an interesting connection between the more "feminine" intuition follows the more "feminine" feeling function in spotting problems/inaction.
I don't know if sensing is acting though. Maybe it is observing and acting at different times. :/
I think of intuition as being focused on unreal things (concepts, possibilities, etc.) that can't be proven (maybe), whereas sensing is focused on real, provable, concrete reality. The past and the present are both set in stone because they either already happened or are currently happening right now, but the future and possibilities both aren't.
When it comes to various problems I see people bring up, my thought is always... okay, so what is the plan of attack? Like in science class, they say IF a certain meteor struck Earth, all this reaction would happen. Me: Okay? What is there for me to do about that right now?
@@aprilhelm518 Hi and thanks for replaing.
I never said that Sensing is Acting.
I said that, for Sensing, immediate Acting is preferable way to solve problems, that's all.
Sensing definitely is not Acting. Sensing is Sensing.
@@kabelmovies Kind of sounds the same, imo. I've heard the stereotype, though, about Ni NOT acting, and I don't really believe it. But as for focus, of course sensing types, being concrete, don't plan THAT far into future or possibilities.
As a Ti-dom, I thought this whole Te thought exercise was incredibly cute. Carry on.
I know that you may be reluctant to but I would be very interested in reading about your thoughts / analysis of this video / "this whole Te thought exercise." As I mentioned in my comment, OP needs Ti depth!
Why do I feel like I've seen these two comments like 100's of times before...
Albeit in many different (and very specifically detailed) articulations...?
Oh & btw...
Yes please.
Will they listen tho?
Eh.
If a middle finger counts, then yes.
@@gooddaygene8355 Dominant Ti/Ne user here. I am new to the Objective Personality channel, so excuse me if I point out obvious take aways from the way Dave and Shan talk. Having that out of the way.
.
.
I found the excercise to be greatly insightful. What intruigued me wasn't the ideas themselves. But how they reached that conclusion as a collective (Dave and Shan).
For example, it was sufficient for me to just read the dictionary reference on Merriam-Webster for the word Intuition.
Intuition noun
a: the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference
b: immediate apprehension or cognition
c: knowledge or conviction gained by intuition
Here, as a Ti user I can already eliminate option (c) of the defnition since they are vague/misleading and hard to understand and literally uses the word to define itself which creates a loop (word-ception if you will).
The 'b' part is something that wasn't mentioned very much in the video. If you'd like an example:
* Imagine you come home from work after a long hard day. All you want to do is take off your shoes & socks and relax on the sofa.
* You get home, excited for the 'to be' chill session.
* You open the door and remove your shoes & socks and feel the cool hardwood floors or the warm carpets of the house.
* You hold your shoes in your hands to put them on the shoe rack, since that's where they belong and you like to keep clean, like they say, "out of sight out of mind".
* Only to find.. That the shoe rack is missing.
* Now you remember that your wife/mom/roommate had to dismantle it in preparation to make your move to a new apartment easier.
* You curse the inconvenience, and find a different place to keep your shoes. Your mental peace destroyed.
.
.
What Dave and Shan were talking about in the video is 'a'. Although the definition is very obvious to me. To explain it to someone else is a different matter.
In the video, they brought out good examples of how to explain such a concept to a sensory person. All the while Dave had to fight his inner monologue during his speech, as much as he tried, he couldn't stop his inner monologue of 'Why'. The 'why' tries to connect the sensory information of the 'now' with something that has happened before. It tries to get the patterns in order. So that the probability of what will happen next is high in his mind. And I assume like for myself, it brings him some comfort knowing how things will proceed.
Since I'm mostly a perceiving type of person, I am also excited by the future un-explored possibilities, leading to a bunch of chaos. Some Intuitive users would rather use their future prediction to ensure a sustainable stable environment. Neither approach is right or wrong.
The analogy I like the most is the invisible wall, specifically the way an amoeba reaches around a rock for food. I correlate this 'pattern' (:p) with modern First Person Shooter games like Counter Strike, Call of Duty or Valorant.
If you walk beyond a wall without giving it a 'second thought' (I love the term second thought). You're gonna get shot in the face. Seasoned veterans will even know where your head will be with respect to the ground and aim exaclty in that spot. You need to have the intuition to crawl/crouch or Run beyond that wall to avoid your impending doom.
For FPS games the intuition would be as follows:
1) Hey there is opening to walk across
2) This reminds me of when I walked across 'that other' opening and got shot in the face
3) How can I get past this hurdle, that may or may not be the same fate? (My dominant Ti at work here)
4) I got it, I can try the following:
a) Crawl
b) Run
c) Wait for another person to go first and see if he/she gets shot
d) Turn back
e) Try peaking or throwing a flash bomb/grenade
f) Think about: Is there a different/safer way to reach the same goal/location? (Ti-ception)
All this to avoid the previous negative pattern of getting shot.
5) Then, my intuition tries to make patterns with the above options until I get Si/Se proof that one of them is better.
6) In the absence of further information to feed my Ti/Ne. I would try the above options in the order of preference of how I feel about them.
I think the amoeba example serves well for all the non-gamer peeps out there as well :)
@@caveatlector2022 if Dave ignores "his" Te which is really our Ti reasons aggregating into Te directed at them then no. He will double down on his Ti/Fi and call that jumping. Which in a way IS apt. If Shan ignores her Ni and her hyper Ne/Se mind just runs the info we send her way through whatever Te filter of "irrelevant / relevant" information (no idea what it is "set to" in the moment) then no, they won't. They would NT argue about the concepts they ironically hold Fi dear and use circular logic to refute our observation in order to maintain the integrity of their NT concepts because to change that would be SF painful for them. Pain "exists" in the 2nd and 3rd function because we kind of don't realize how much we lean on the 6th and 8th. Or, another way, the imbalance in our 2nd and 4th is not with 1 and 2 but actually 6th and 8th. All functions may be balanced so they can work as a complete "process." Let us take a 3d approach to the stack. Stop the 2d! Add depth;)
@@Vegetoyesh okay I adored this! I am a Gamma so Alpha quadra is SO alien to me. I can attribute your explanations and even why you would be explaining how you are. A glimpse into your world. But it is a glimpse, not a full experience. I have to muse over on much of what you wrote. I appreciate the gaming analogies as I can better understand them:)
I can see Dave getting drained by this whole conversation. I feel that way too talking sensory stuff.😆 Great explanation by Shan. 👍😄
Ti deficiency.
Nah its because shan keeps cutting him of, going along with the mindset of 'I have something more important to say than you', the disharmony is real with this one
@@jaymie817
Well, there's that, too...
@@caveatlector2022 ok lol
@zeta
Ok.
Dave literally spoke about 3 times in this video 😆 and all of them were about, "this reminds me of.." great vid
Shan has to lightly push and block Dave to not interrupt her! 😆
How *DARE* Dave interupt her interruptions.
The utter audacity.
@@caveatlector2022 yeeeah, what a woman hater.
😂
She takes ×3 number of words than Dave to say the same thing.
Seems like she's jealous of Dave ability to be pin point informative.
@Gordon A
Objectively speaking?
I can see why you'd entertain that position.
Subjectively speaking?
Nah; she's just an ENTJ 😂
Way to go, Shan! I knew these guys would understand more in a couple years. The progression is great to see.
Shan’s double masculine blast all the way cranked up here 😂
@Juan Antonelli Short answer; the sexual energy of your saviour functions, masculine or feminine.
Example, Ti-Si FF (double feminine) means Ti and Si are both feminine, Se-Te FM (feminine masculine) means Se is feminine and and Te is masculine
@@casualduck7398 how the fuck can a person be ti-fi or se-te
@@endgamez7621 I meant Ti-Si, bit of a brainfart there
@@casualduck7398 oh gtk
@@endgamez7621 im curious, as a feeler when i read ur comment “how the fuck” etc etc my thoughts immediately went to “oh no he might upset the other person with his tone”, but then i saw by clicking on ur thing and it showing ur other comments that ur an ISTP, so now i feel like u didnt have the intention of rudeness, instead ur expressions were just the bluntness you’d see of someone who has Ti over Fe, am i right? cutting straight thru the bullshit, where me a feeler would be afraid of others interpreting it as mean?
I kind of had this idea of Se - Ni - Ne - Si being a chain, if you view it from a societal point of view.
Se = gathering chaos/raw data
Ni = processing raw data into abstract concepts
Ne = gathering abstract concepts
Si = further processing the abstract concepts into something useful for the tribe
10+ minute video on the coping mechanism of intuition users against the fact that they have to deal with the sensory world due to their physical body and limited information conveyer (the language) 😂
Sensory: yes a bee sting is bad but that doesn't mean that bee-look-alike (bumblebee) is also bad.
Intuition: that stripey insect (wasp) looks similar to the bee that stung so-and-so. I'm avoiding the look alike too.
Ohh God I just feel what Dave is going through in this video 😂😂😂🤦🏻♂️
I now feel heavily compelled as an ENFP to make a video on how i feel this(intuition)works, as I’ve been decently good at articulating my inner thoughts, feelings, protocols,and world.
.. I really hope i get to this!!
Gonna do it guys just you wait
Lol do it man! I would watch it. Typed as ENFP a long time ago, but less sure of that the more I learn.
That said, after finding stuff like OP, LiJo, Binyamin I feel like I'm getting a greater understanding.
Now this is my ranking of what I MIGHT BE in order of greatest to least likelihood (looool): ENTP, INTP, ENFP, ESTP, INFJ.
Help me out of this madness. Provide me with concepts. Ty,
Sincerely,
Thanks
@@rubening the calling is real 😮💨 lol
ive been thinking up a lot of stuff id need to throw it all together. So i havent been totally useless. I just need tend to some major irl Si first… so as an enfp.. only god knows how long thatll take.
But hey, last week i made progress! I finally got my state plates… after like 3 months and a parking ticket later. Yay for driving legally!
Yeet.
And like a good ENFP you probably just toyed with the idea, but never actually did it
Love their vibe!
NE for me when it kicks in. There is ussally 4 options that quickly go through my mind.
- reminds me off, known connect concepts.
- I create new concept.
- what is the concept from the other is using. Concept I don’t know yet. Curiosity is key.
- what is most likely based on situation.
Ni is similar. Based on gathered information (memories, anecdotes, things I've learned), what is the most likely scenario? The information we use isn't abstract but basic data points. Who, what, when, where, and most importantly, WHY?
The "this reminds me of" I think fires off when talking to others, but if we aren't sharing, I don't think that thought happens.
The intuition talk reminds me of a story about Darwin.
"The story goes that Darwin was sent a sample of the flower in 1862. Upon seeing its long, narrow nectar tube, he predicted that there must be an insect with a very long proboscis (a tongue-like part) that could reach deep within the hollow space to “drink” the nectar at the bottom. In so doing the insect would bump into the flower’s sticky pollen, enabling its transfer from one flower to another."
R u talkin about hummingbirds bro
@@jillwhitley8843 hm... It's called a Hawk Moth. At least that's what I read
@@einsame_Maria damn hawk moths do have long Proboscis… also there is a species called the hummingbird hawk moth. 10/10 very cute
@@einsame_Maria They are pretty amazing to observe. You would think it being a moth that its movements are just as sporadic as the next, but these guys are so nimble and fast. The first I saw one, I thought I was looking at a misshapen hummingbird.
That's interesting but until this video I would have thought of that at as sensing.
Basically Intuition is another way of gathering information in order to survive. We have sensing through our five senses but it's not sufficient enough for survival because we can't have all of the information all at once. So in order to survive your brain has to find a way to create more sensory in order to make decisions. Let's say I'm driving and I pull out my map to see where I'm going. Let's say that at some point I spill coffee all over half of the map rendering that half unuseable. I need a full map in order to get to my destination but since reality no longer has a full map I have to turn the map I have into a full map and follow that map to my destination. But since this is only a full map that my brain created, whether I get to my destination or not is up in the air. Basically intuition is your ability to create more sensory to go off of when you don't have enough to make a choice.
I feel S is like a need to feel safe Right now! If you’ve watched FRIENDS show, wherein Monica and Ross are shown to have such close knit families, and so is Joey’s. Guess what? Monica is a classic esfj and ross is an istj or istp i guess, joey and rachel ate both esfp. Interestingly, Chandler(who’s parents are shown to be very less involved in his life and are divorcing) and Phoebe who is shown as an orphan are both Entp and enfp .
What i mean is, chandler and phoebe didnt ‘GET’ the worldview already built by their ‘families’ like Ross monica rachel joey got. So their’s not this need to ‘desperately’ become what is asked. Chandler and phoebe had to slowly built on their own ‘worldviews’ bcoz there was noone to ‘give it to them’ so that they could later built on that ‘downloaded worldview’ with their intuition and collect patterns around THAT downloaded worldview.
What i mean is no wonder S types are most common and especially in Asian countires even now bcoz of the ‘control factor’ of the families and therefore S types have a ‘downloaded worldview’ around which they have to use their intuition. Ie S types dont know tht a worldview exists outside the one that’s downloaded since beginning.
Howver, for intuitives their worldview is more’ original’ than downloaded and therefore is able to see things which a S type wouldnt be able to see bcoz of their ‘limitation to that box’ . And the N cant understand the S bcoz he doesnt know about the box which S is operating within.
Interesting point. Looking around my environment supports your theory.
Also thank you for putting the sensory first. (y)
This is how Te shows the world in real time Ni has reached a blasting point.
With Ni of this caliber, Te is commanding the system this is now the concept that the tribe should be working with.
For real. Observers and anxiety. If it's "like this one time," we might not get blown up again
The way I see it, having a good, accurate intuition is like being a master of context clues. Kind of like being able to fit the remaining pieces of the jigsaw puzzle with only a few pieces there. The better and more accurate your intuition is, the less pieces you need to see the whole picture and complete the puzzle. Obviously nobody’s always right but personally I find a lot of the times my intuition to be accurate. Of course the only way to build that intuition is to do the sensory work and find out and learn through life, or learn it through someone who has, and just reading books and online discussions about things will build your intuition. But don’t forget the sensory 😆
Intuitive leaps....sensory trudges....
Love it when Dave Sleep processes mid-sentence 😅
I don't say reminds me of to myself, I say it to sensors who look blank at me when abstract thought is required. The analogies are for them, not me.
Intuition is all about making connections, so it is a constant game of relating things to other things. You just don't have to explain the connection to yourself. "Reminds me of" probably wasn't the best way they could have explained it, but the message is accurate.
Sensors give you blank stares when abstract thought is required? I've walked this earth for over 30 years and I've never met a single person who couldn't understand abstract thought.
@@basic-decaf You lucky unicorn of a bastard :))) Are you S or N?
i wanna hear yalls definitions/examples of abstract thought. any examples please of the abstract thoughts yall are tryna explain to sensors
N is about the human tendency of language I believe. Because saying all leaves are in the category "leaf" is intuition too, because their also all different. They are not the same. But humans categorize so they can have a tool whom with they can know how to handle reality without having to do the same whole thinking process say after day.
I am a 49 year old female intj letting you know science world will ostracize and defame you because you are open, right, and happy. I’m a loyal fan forever. Brilliant. Reading my entire life and family systems learning out loud. Scary but laudable.
man i would love a vlog style type channel from yall. i think it would be cool seeing yall go thru a slice of ur day commenting on things like “there goes Dave’s Fi” LOL
If you have a tip on how to explain abstract patterns or principles to sensors, I would be sooo grateful!
It's incredibly frustrating to have to come up with and walk them through 50 tangible examples, before they start seeing the light. (Analogy alert) Imagine trying to solve a 5000 piece puzzle with someone who has to measure out the exact dimensions of every single piece, before they can try putting a few together, instead of looking at the whole picture first. Is it about fear of zooming out, can it be helped? Cheers!
As an Se dom:
Your analogies seem waaaaaaay too complicated. Even this one. I couldn't even read it all. I didn't have the patience to do it nor would it have helped me understand you better since you relate it to something - a a sensory thing - have seen, experienced or . Not everyone puzzles and therefore won't get connected with you as quickly. If you try to see what their interests are or what they already understand, they will follow you easier (for example if you know play football and are already familiar with that and they don't have to use any brainpower to try to understand your analogy and where its coming from, relate it to that and it's structures/rules etc. if possible).
On top of that, I see that I have to use more brainpower to try to understand your analogy, and it isn't simple and quick. You shouldn't have to use brainpower to understand the analogy. You should use brainpower to understand the subject, and the analogy is just a very, very, very easy dumbed down similar thing that you can then relate to the subject you are trying to understand. It should be used sort of as a stepping-stone, not as its own subject.
And another tip: try to make analogies that are as simple (and easy) as those you would use to explain things to a child. No joke.
@@nattifrutti Are you saying that you interact with people on the daily who don't know the definition of a puzzle but understand the intricacies of football? I need to hear more on this.
As a self professed intuitive, I understand the analogy in its entirety. :') (i dont just understand, i feel it xD ) I would like to also see what people think would help...
You can't really put all sensors in the same box. There's no system that would work with all of them. You just have to consider the needs and questions of the individual person. Basically, the solution here is to further develop your sensing function.
Yea, just how annoying it is to explain facts to an intuitive, the same people who believe in god, astrology and fairy tales. Especially masculine intuitives. Just because you imagine something in your head doesn't mean it works in reality.
Absolutely love watching you guys figure it out in real time. Was very TJ to me. An an Ne, I feel like I would just go off in the space and it would never fit into 10 minutes
"Legolas, what do your elf eyes see??" Said the sensor to the intuitive
Imagine life without needing to prove everything.....heaven! 🌫️
I am pretty sure that "it reminds me" part is decision making. Intuition servers as an internal sensor. This is why intuitive types seem to skip sensory information. They do not. Intuition is an internal sensing. It is a decision making part which gives meaning to the collected information.
That did wonders to deepen my understanding of Se and Ni. Thank you!
N is proposing what is possible. S proves or disproves what N proposes. Both are self v. tribe. Dave looks at internal possibilities and seeks proof in the external world.
INTJ here. YES! I do that ALL the time! That reminds me of...That reminds me of....That reminds me of... I even annoy myself with that. LOL But I can't help it. I'm making new associations.
I feel like when I'm explaining stuff, I'm "proving it... "
Maybe with intent to provide context so my interlocutors can precisely walk in someone eles shoes & see the "what's" & "why's."
Whereas when I'm listening, I'm internally "it's like" filtering & organising.
I.E. "Oh! That's just like...." is what I use to walk in someone else's shoes & understand the "what's" & "why's."
Then there's that one time (in that one OP NF Analogies vid) Joe Rogan asked RDJ to prove (or explain? Wait. Are they the same?...) "it" & the latter attempted to do so with:
"It's like..."
My mind is blown as well. Gonna have to sit with this before I can get anything else done.
Default, that I would only watch half the videos, and that would automatically put me in a category with 50% of other people is hilarious
4:12 holy shit this is how I learned typology oh my god I just relate everything to myself until I get it
I believe there is a quote or maybe even overarching thesis made by philosopher Schopenhauer, that could provide insight (potentially and if I understand it correctly.) It states that in short: "Humans and human intelligence is incapable of experiencing the entirety of the world or existence as a whole.. but rather what we experience is only and ever will be a collection of individual perceptions and associations we make with the physical world."
9:00 Shan summarizes it : solving for “seeing thought the walls” human need.
Adding a verse to your poem, intuitives have laid down eyelashes while sensing dominant people have curled eyelashes.
To anyone else like me, who rewinded the video because they wondered: "WHY would Dave wonder why"? at 5:09 :
You're gonna read this comment and wonder why I would wonder why Dave would wonder why, and then someone else will wonder why you would wonder why I would wonder why, then someone else will wonder why they would wonder why you would wonder why, and then...
Congratulations!
You have discovered a completely useless infinite loop; also, you're an intuitive; an Ne-dominant, most likely!
You're welcome!
Darn you! lol
I still can't tell why he said why. I alwas go back and check when someone says they wonder lol
In case of the absence of sensory data, and the because it's faster than wait for it... both make sense!
I'm so glad we're finally addressing the Dave overtalking thing 0:09
Shan 😂😂😂 also me...with my husband
I read somewhere that intuition was created to fill in the blind spot of human eyesight
I LOVE this. Nice work Shan!!!
I'm here from/for the thumbnail, & Dave's hair 😏
edit: "Reminds of 2 dogs..."
It's like watching Gracie JJ in action, only, OPS in action, folks 😎
Cilia is what she's thinking of. Oh Cecilla, I'm down on my knees. Is a song by Simon and The Gratefunkle Dead.
I've thought this myself. Human cognitive evolution seems like Feeling and Sensory first, then Thinking and Sensory, then Feeling/Thinking and Intuition.
This reminds me of shut up a second, the tale of two typists 🤗
basically it was really simple when they talking about it in the tutorial video
I took it in and just made two words for it, sensory is facts and intuition is imagination
you have to use facts to put the imaginations together and you have to use imagination to put the facts together
I like overview more than details
That's why class gets boring and is soo DRAINING
Are you two trying, or are you just this cute?
why do i feel like i haven't learned anything new
Fascinating!
Synthesis of myth or archetypal stories - systems thinking - abstraction - geometry - algebra... Etc ... Just N speculation of why N would be useful In an evoulotionary prespective- For passing on information to other generations in a way that could be used in different situations... Like a distillation of many S experiences into one grand narrative.... Useful for coming up with laws and general guidelines... the "culture" of the tribe
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one doing this to my fam .. all entj are prob figure it out the. Proceeded to brow beat until nobody appreciates there genius
Ni is for prediction. Ne is for innovation.
I keep hearing and seeing (in mannerisms) Jerry Seinfeld.
* now that I watched the video in it’s entirety I should have written “Dave reminds me of…”.
As an intuitive I just see so many patterns with signs in people that I can almost guess people's signs... It is amazing... People who don't see the connections cannot be intuitives right?
It is funny, some people see the patterns, others don't
Ni - Can't help but notice 'how I process' this metaphorically/subconsciously
Ne - Doesn't understand a pattern until they know 'how much of this is new'
I honestly think intuition stores and relates templates of experiences.
Specific instances are related to each other through that template.
Kind of convenient to 'automatically' connect a current experience to other similar experiences - it's like the list of recommended videos - "hey, here's some potentially relevant information that could be useful for you to have readily accessible."
Oh, an imperfect but interesting example for this video:
'Have you ever heard of the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?' 😂
Sometimes I get confused between Ni and Si. But after Dave described Ni+Fi as "this situation reminds me of the feeling of this", I think that Si+Fi is kinda the opposite of this because it's more as comparing situations as they happened in the *real * world and percieving the current *reality * as you percieved the previous ones
When does it ever end? When you finally really ‘get’ that life is not a puzzle to solve. It is intrinsically unsatisfactory. So you stop struggling against it.
Can we get a compilation video of the both of them telling each other to shut up?
Not lead intuitive, most likely double observer, and the "reminds me of" is something I’ve caught myself doing consistently, to the point where I wondered if not other people were getting annoyed I said it so much. Tend to use it as a segue when I’m not sure the next thing I want to say is still on topic. Got it mixed up along the way, thinking for a while it was an Si thing, even though I’d already watched this video before 😅
That was super awesome! I believe exactly what Shan talks about here. Intuition is very important for our species and we shouldn't try to undermine it. We as Ni users sometimes know. And other times... well, this knowledge turns out to be bullshit.
yh i get u
I love the Te tag team here. Something Ti fails to understand is when they let their Ti out, is always boring. In contrast, I felt energized watching this video. ✌️
so true. Ti overload can be annoying cause its like, come on stop drawling on and on and let me speak LOL!
This video is so relatable, good one guys!
It's abstraction and comparison vs exaction and constrast. (Yes, I made exaction up and now I like it).
Ni dominate here. I was totally empathizing with Dave’s energy drain
So N discovers new scientific theories, and S sorts through the theories developing the proofs.
S vs N is my biggest doubt regarding Objective Personality. Shan said that intuitives "have to relate it to something that is familiar." I don't think that is true for Ne, at least. When I discuss the current world vs a possible future utopia, I ask people to imagine a super-advanced alien utopia, i.e. something that is NOT familiar. It's about imagination, which is more like the standard MBTI version of intuition. It's about future possibilities, not past known info. Dave says that even Ni plans for the future. Also, Dave and Shan say that N vs S is about overview vs details, but that is already a known NLP coin (big picture vs details), so it might be a new OP coin that is not specifically related to N vs S. I have other doubts about their view of S vs N, and I suspect it might be because they both have Ni rather than Ne.
For Ne the Si details are familiar. Without the "familiar" sensory, Ne couldn't function because it wouldn't have anything to work with. Relating and reassembling Si details in new ways creates the new possibilities. The big difference is in the way "past known info" is defined. Ni takes intuition itself as the known info ("what conceptual boxes have I already built") whereas Ne uses Si as a source of known info. The "have to relate it to something that is familiar" that D&S are talking about applies to Ne via connections. Ne connects known sensory information in new ways and thereby "creates". Ni connects new sensory information in known ways and thereby "narrows down".
Intuition is utilizing patterns and past experience To relay to current circumstances.
When dealing with functions, many, including OP say "everyone does everything." So this affirms that all 8 functions affect us. Yet OP focuses on 4 of the 8? Half of the code. Only the front end programming, the front end, no back end? A great man once mused "Until you make the unconscious conscious it will direct your life and you will call it fate." Are you not only looking at the "conscious" by looking at the front stack / top four? In true Te fashion the NTJs of OP are expressing breadth and not depth by expanding the "code" via adding more coins. Look Ji deeper.
Technically you still have 2 conscious and 2 unconscious functions among the stack, the other 4 should be somewhat related to how the inital 4 are positioned in the stack
How will you make the unconscious conscious if you are not even conscious enough of the first 4 of them? And they last 4 are behind the first 4 function, if u develop and balance the first 4, you're developing the last 4 with them, simultaneously.
@@handreieiacasa and when you make the 2 in the top stack conscious you have the "bottom 4" to deal with. The top two are on the surface. Identify them, make the connections. THEN start your true hero's journey and go below, where the real monsters are.
@@FFakiha yes! Great question! I can only speak for myself (ISFP.) I Fi/Se fill my relations and experiences. My "body" and instincts know. It takes time for my NT "mind" to formulate and identify via language and concepts what my body was already experiencing. NTJ will have the model / language concepts in their head and have to connect it to their body (SF) tangible experience. Then you rinse and repeat because there are SO. MANY. LAYERS. Each type has to figure out their own relationship to their functions. To tie it together. And then keep going. We have a tendency to skip our "2nd" function. That is why most people are "jumpers" that is why "life begins at 35" that is when, hopefully most people become adults. You may have heard the second function be called the "parent" function. What is the difference between a parent and a child? A child is never at fault, no responsibility! A parent is always at fault for they must take responsibility and thus have power to CHANGE things. Take responsibility with your parent function. USE it. However it must be used. There will be all the resistance in the world for it is the "death" of your child. At least it will feel like it, but it isn't death as much as it is growth which HURTS. But one doesn't have to stop being Peter Pan. One can alway return and play with the child (3rd) function. And your 2nd will "protect" your third. After that... keep on going. For when we use the second function it opens up our 4th as both are the same orientation (i/e.)
@@gooddaygene8355 thanks for elaborating!
4:59 it fascinates me how they miss the point when they talk about these things. They need an aware Ne saviour on their team.
I don't 'look for' 'this reminds me of' moments. I notice them and they fit into the web of other things I've noticed and then I go 'oh hey, a pattern, these things lead the same direction' and then I follow that direction and find other things that 'fit'.
Einstein looked at a clock on a train station and that started a train of thought that lead to the theory of relativity.
I need here to shut up Dave in other videos aswell this is great
When ur 50 you are able to use both pretty well... you develop over time if self aware.
Peak working together.
So TL;DR: intuition is our ability to infer causes, and we infer causes because it's advantageous to survival.
Donno if you have to pull a David Hume and equivocate pattern recognition with causation; one might infer causes because there are Causes (i.e. necessary connections between things). Afaik causation is kinda hotly contested in philosophy right now - there's a kind of resurgence of direct realism atm, so as far as consensus might be concerned, it's either or.
Nothing quite like saying, "That reminds me of…" and getting blank stares as a response. And I'm like, "Oh, great. Do I really have to explain this?! Just kill me already. ~massive sigh~ We could have moved on to the next point 10 seconds ago."
I'm not sure whether I'm sensory or intuition dominant, but it seems clear from this video that my observers are in the middle as I can switch between the two more easily and while I lean toward saying I'm intuition dominant, I don't seem to neglect the sensory to the same degree as Dave seems to. I can make arguments for each, but the general structure of my type being more obvious is still useful. I will laugh if I end up having the same OP type as my Myers Briggs which it's still possible.
Let's get Jungian. More. Think about the cultures and even more Intuitive, their stories, their versions of _This is what it feels like. . ._
There are countless expressions of attempting to understand a Vision beyond vision. And I would think many don't like the term Imagination but it is essentially true. The imagination simply has to start aligning itself with known realities and proving itself. And just like other disciplines, once you "master" this alignment then you can begin to disassemble it once again. You can begin to intuit more things beyond what has normally seen and that. . . that too has many, many stories. The Eye of Maat. Jung also suggests that _Seeing Beyond_ what it is that we would prefer to _See_ is how we are best. And how we are frightened.
edit: and maybe it begins with Uncertainty? Maybe it begins with that unsettling discomfort of eating a failure or mistake, which ultimate will not matter because... you will it away. Willpower itself is only imagination manifest. As a man once said, _"Do you think Gods' Will should be carried out by cowards?!"_
im talking about myself too here when i say this but intuitives have a way of sounding so pretentious when they talk but you can’t blame us/it’s justified because what we’re saying is essentially just spewing out from us like a faucet and not at all premeditated or fabricated. i like ur comment and the point u made
I love Shan’s explanation, but I wish I would have gotten to hear Dave’s explanations as well.
I also suggest you consider a standing desk as sitting for work will cost you life hours & health which can affect your marital situation, emotional & phys. Standing desk helps #inbed. Want to see you two sustsined. ;)
Sustained.
those last 2 sentences werent creepy at all..
My Ne dom needs to know how a fact fits into my network of concepts. The whole system of relationships has to be updated if a new perception introduces a truly new concept, so first question is whether it’s “new” or just analogous to a concept I’ve already incorporated. --ENTP
I have also observed that intuition work by "association" or links. This is how intuition seems to process a ton of information in a moment. This is why reading nursery "rhymes" to very young children and getting them to remember them strengthens their intuition and memory. Before they learn words or as they are learning words the easiest way to teach "association" is through "rhymes"; which are the most basic form of word association. We intuitively know this, and this is why people often "associate" Eminem with being Ne dom. or Ne shadow, or being one of the intuitive-savior types in general. I'm Ni dom. and my ESFP Mother read me nursery rhymes over and over and over early on until I got it myself. This lead me into researching the "link" between nursery rhymes and memory; which the research of had "links" to intuition. Stupid video by the way! Just joking.
Totally had this situation of "prove it" sensory with my house mate. He is a heavy Ne user. Makes big observations. Me (most likely sensory dom) beats him over the head to explain himself. His response: "I don't know how to explain it, I'm just seeing this." I think make guesses for him to see if something sticks. It bugs me cause I am seeing somewhat the same sort of patterns but when the sensory is absent I try and find it! 😅
It's exhausting to listen to Shan talk for more than 30 seconds at a time
New favourite video
Same hahahaha
@@sophiaredwood5825 were you the one who was writing a fiction using mbti types as models for the characters? Sorry if it is not you, but I think the person had a book in the propic
@@handreieiacasa YES! That’s me :))
@@sophiaredwood5825 awesome! How is it going?
@@handreieiacasa It’s going well for me!! And the book has been going… well, as much as anything can “go” with an ENFP. Not very far, though it says something that I’m still wildly interested in it after ten months of brainstorming and idealizing and constant digging for more information. It’s fallen into my Fi box and it won’t leave anytime soon. Blast last is a pain when it comes to bringing ideas to life, especially when all I want is for them to look perfect on paper, but I’m slowly overcoming that. It’s not easy. But in the meantime, I’m still trying to take in every bit of typology info I can, because I love learning more about these characters and about humanity in general. :))
I'm as sure as I can be that my husband is an S. (Masculine S, for that matter. If something bugs him he either smashes or throws it.) He's either ESFJ or an ENFJ jumper. But I'm leaning towards Si because, despite the fact that he makes guesses all the time, and he constantly talks about past experiences in an "I've seen this before" sort of way, he's not making his guesses, or referencing past experiences in a patterny, more global sort of way. Everything is discrete and specific. He'll guess that someone won't last long at the job because of a very specific, concrete singular past experience in which a guy (who may or may not be like the guy in question....) didn't last long at his job. He constantly brings up the same specific past experiences to illustrate and give credence to present day opinions/guesses. ... it's almost like a parody of what N's are doing.
I wanted to run this past ya'll and see if you think I'm reading this right. It's not the "I've seen this before" so much as "I've had enough past experiences that I've noticed a pattern" that N's are doing (even if what they're saying is just "I've seen this before." ... right?
Isn't "prove it in the sensory" just Te? Maybe "do it in/with the sensory." Somehow engage what's actually there, right now
It's more fun to ignore sensory. It's just annoying and gets in the way.
6:33 such a biased angle lol. If you can't see the pattern then you need to be lead through it step by step.
I remember when I first learned Meyers Briggs, the facilitator for the career planning workshop challenged us to guess her type.
On the last day I said 'You are ESTJ' and she asked - 'what makes you say that? Because you are right.'
And I was like 'uh... Because I just worked it out in the last 10 seconds because of things I've seen this whole time?'
I tried to spell it out but it was mostly vsuge if-then statements.
(I'm INTP)