we are so accustomed to see/hear things and we see/hear characters/caharacteristics. Things has patterns. Millions, even perhaps billions age of patterns. We are constantly on that. "identification" had helped us survived. But when it is "too much" it make us "sick" or distorted. Can you imagine, we forget how to relax.. thanks for reminding🙌 Great insight🙏
@@Tony_Ningam Is that attention the observer or consciousness or is consciousness before attention? Does it matter to know what is awareness or awareness of awareness etc or is non duality about something else?
Ok so what I think you’re saying or pointing to is a diffused attention [relaxed/open] vs focused and that the ‘attention’ is us. Does that make sense?
Hey brother, Yes, when you relax this attention, it returns to the source, so it is not fixated on the thinking mind, emotions, or external objects. Attention is another word added to the inefable truth. We are that Much love♥️
I would say that this might change everything, for a person who has just the right karma for it to penetrate. For myself, and for most people, I would say that this will have no effect. The negative, deluded conditioning is too strong. Nothing can get through.
I’m not sure if this will help, but just in case…I doubt you would even be here if something hadn’t already gotten through. The mind is hilarious; it’s doing its best, but it can’t fathom what is penetrated, so it may keep suggesting that nothing’s been penetrated even as realization deepens. But fortunately, it gets easier and easier to recognize these doubt thoughts for what they are. You don’t have to believe them. Terence Stephens uses a thought experiment that you might find helpful. He suggests we imagine that a strange disorder has caused all our thoughts to be in a language we can’t understand. Everything we see is garbled lights and forms, and we can’t distinguish our body from the room where we’re sitting. But of course, even then, we know we still are here. We feel our beingness, beyond doubt. What are we then? The mind keeps trying to answer, but all its offerings are in a foreign language, so there’s nothing for it to grab hold of. All you can do is feel it. Be it. You actually can’t do anything else. Ever. 😂
It's more about general attitude rather than karma, most people have wrong ideas about what karma is or represents, getting hit by a bus whilst crossing a street doesn't necessarily mean an unfolding of or related to karma ... Genuinely good or evil bad people can and get hit by a bus for that matter... you probably know of friends dear to your heart which died although they were amazingly loving great persons... Our world is filled with human drama while the pendulum moves from apathy to empathy, from empathy to apathy in a painful slow way to endure and perceive on a personal level. I understand why you bring this up, but at the same time you still have a lot to understand about the nature of things, including yourself... This is probably somewhat what this video is all about, layers and layers of perceptions are clouded because we believe to know the difference in between right and wrong... because our reality is the right only reality... right? ❤
With all the respect in the world my brother Tony, I have to disagree a bit with you. I do agree that Identification with thoughts is the core of a lot of suffering. And instead of identification with thought I would say the main problem is being lost in thought, meaning that you lose control of your thoughts to a degree that you might even be thinking without realizing. Basically is thoughts with 0 control. In the center of what you're saying is the realization that we are not the thinkers of our thoughts, and I have to say, saying that "Hey, you don't need to suffer because you're not even the thinkers of our thoughts" is also simply a belief. Think about it this way. Some people get compulsive thoughts and some people even get compulsive actions with their hands and arms (for example). Compulsive action it's all the same, it is non conscious actions (and these can be mental actions as well). The real progress is in being mindfull of these thoughts and start being more conscious about our mental activities. This is correct. But saying "Oh, we are not thinkers of our thoughts", this is just trying to have some psycological relief to our suffering, which is completely understandable, but it's simply a belief and does not tackle the real solution. Again, talking about the person that has a compulsion in their hands. They spend the entire day during something with their hand that causes them to be uncomfortable. (This is the same as mental activity, I'm just using an physical activity as an example to make it extra clear). If you tell this person "Hey man, you can chill! You are not the thinker or the doer of your actions", this does not absolute 0 help for them. The only possible help this could provide, is a bit of psycological relief because the person will think "Oof, that is not my fault". What has truly helped me in my experience is: Just like we can take charge of our physical actions in life, we can do it as well with our mental activities. I stopped creating new beliefs like "I'm not the thinker", and started focusing on simply having more experience nagivating my mind and "internal world" consciously. Again, yes, there is a problem with being lost in thought, but that it's fixed by consciously practicing and being aware that thoughts are simply a tool for us, not really who we are, they are just part of what we can use.
Oh sweet irony - Nonduality itself is a thought\belief system. And like many who've adopted a belief system, they're utterly convinced it isn't a belief, but is actually objective truth about reality.
not if nonduality is utterly perceived as such. Perceptions are not beliefs. You can perceive your arm rising, for example, so you don't need to believe it, since you KNOW what's going on. But of course, the very arm can be illusory, because you could be dreaming that you see your arm, and yet see it rising. But you can proceed to reality-checks in this "awake" reality, so as to embody the understanding that all is one, and that all we see is merely a reflection of inner processes. This perception is not a belief, but the result of a scientific inner investigation and clear seeing. But if one keeps only parroting the discourse of nondualism without direct experience, that's merely another belief system indeed.
@@RogerioLupoArteCientifica "Perceptions are not beliefs." Yet beliefs can create and influence perceptions. And if one is lacking in self-awareness or isn't aware of blind spots or bias', or isn't engaged in robust self-evaluation...one can create a belief about an experience, even direct ones, and form incorrect conclusions of said experience. Then there's the issue of desire, how emotion can drive a person to accept a conclusion..the stronger the positive emotion during "direct" experiences, can result in emotional influence to form incorrect conclusions due to the emotional high one has. "Scientific inner investigation and clear seeing." So how does one scientifically determine the level of clarity of one's perception? By what criteria does one evaluate one's being in order to 100% accurately establish 100% unclear perception and 100% clear perception? Then how does one, with 100% accuracy, determine they are operating in 100% direct engagement? Then, what's the definition of 'direct experience'? What do folks actually mean when they say 'direct'? ...just to cite a few of my queries of this faith-based religion.
yes but where did this thought come from? It was suggested by a video you just watched, hence it's not under your command. And from now on, memory can bring it back, and this is yet another involuntary process, even if you remember to remember it. All thoughts arise as a result of what comes before in an infinite chain that traces back to the big bang. As Nisargadatta said, "everything is the cause of everything else and trying to find a specific cause for the events is pointless". Even the thoughts that suggest focusing on specific things can come either from outer sources or from embodied conditioning (from culture, social demand/hypnosis/brainwashing, from body needs etc.). But ultimately it doesn't make any difference if thoughts command focus. What matters is the realization that none of that is under our control, hence identification with thoughts is illusory, since thoughts are neither ours nor ourselves.
i am this or i am that. When we see things and we respond to it, sometimes even force how things should be. When you pay attention to the sensastion your body perceive and notice the movement of how the "i" respond and giving that sensastion meaning. Therefore perception, therefore a state of subject, and perhaps "identification" is seen.. which is if you go in to it.. you might notice that identification is seperating.. which non~liberating 🙇
Maybe it's practice, maybe it's your particular brain that's wired like that, maybe there's so many simuli or thoughts or emotions going under the surface of attention that there's little energy left to follow the will to focus
They say your thoughts are a good servant but a pore master. Let your awareness be the master. The witness of the thoughts. But the witness doesn’t make decisions it’s only the thoughts that make judgments. But if you can see the decision or judgments from the position of the witness. Your life will go in as it should. To do this needs a lot of practice and most people get sucked back into believing they are their thoughts 😢
When i hug another my attention goes to the mind thoughts oh im so bad i cant feel love etc ,i cant feel the love even though I desperately want to.. what am i doing wrong please or how do i feel the feelings i want to feel ? Please
Hey, try to stop wanting, because wanting something creates tension and resistance as, NOW is not perfect yet and something is missing. But they are created by the mind. Stop all wantings, what you seek is what you already are in essence. Much love♥️
I don’t see how moving attention around ends identification w/thoughts. It does bring awareness to attention and it’s movement but not sure of this correlation to dis-identification.
I don't quite understand your point because I don't think I am my thoughts. I think that I am having thoughts. For example, if a thought arises like: "Paris is in France." That is just one of thousands of thoughts I could have. But I don't believe that I am that statement.
So long as you believe thoughts belong to you, there is a “you” that claims ownership over them. Those thoughts are part of “me;” They are “my” thoughts. “I” am having them. There is no separate self floating behind your eyes that owns any aspect of thoughts, emotions, sensations, or perceptions. ❤
@@davekay7221 But have you first appreciated the difference between saying that I am my thoughts and that I am having thoughts? You are raising a deeper point. Most spiritual teachers say that you are not your thoughts but that you are pure awareness, which is also very different from the point you are making. They are claiming a grander version of a self, ie., true self vs false self. Your point is most accurate. No self.
@@sanekabc Teachers must first encourage seekers to break the bonds that limit the illusory self to mind/body. The self next takes up residence as “I am limitless love, awareness, God.” That Self eventually drops away as well (though most don’t make it that far on the path). Enlightenment is complete ego death-the relative ego and the enlightened ego. What remains is form and emptiness.
HI ALL❤️
Don't hesitate to share your thoughts, questions, and reflections in the comments section below.
MUCH LOVE✨🙏🏼❤️
😍❤❤❤What happenned with your nose?
@ Hey, I do brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, this is just a little friction. Thanks♥️☀️🙏🏼
Bro, you look like you joined the Fight Club ❤
BJJ♥️🔥🙏🏼
What is it like doing BJJ while enlightened? Can you not predict all their moves? 😉
@Tony_Ningam
we are so accustomed to see/hear things and we see/hear characters/caharacteristics. Things has patterns. Millions, even perhaps billions age of patterns. We are constantly on that. "identification" had helped us survived. But when it is "too much" it make us "sick" or distorted. Can you imagine, we forget how to relax..
thanks for reminding🙌
Great insight🙏
Thanks for your beautiful sharing.
Much love♥️
That’s crazy. Thank you very much for these exercises, especially the last one❤️
♥️
Thank you 🙏🏼, it’s very clear, I was seeing as you were speaking, and I see it and I am living it ❤
Thanks for your comment. Sending love your way♥️
This is very beautiful. Thank you ❤
Sending peace your way. Much love♥️
Beautiful 🙏
Thank you 🙌♥️
Incredible. That works. Thanks Tony🙏🏼✨♥️
♥️
Very great pointers Tony, very appreciated! ❤️🙏🌟
You are so welcome. Much love♥️
Thank you Tony. 🙏
Sending love your way. Thanks♥️
thank you Tony, now i understand whats mean : ı'm not the body, im even not the mind
♥️🙏🏼☀️
🙏🏻❤ thank you Tony
♥️
Much love. Thanks bro'. Very helpfull. Be well.
Thanks. Much love♥️🙏🏼😘
Excellent!!!!
♥️
@@Tony_Ningam Is that attention the observer or consciousness or is consciousness before attention? Does it matter to know what is awareness or awareness of awareness etc or is non duality about something else?
Ok so what I think you’re saying or pointing to is a diffused attention [relaxed/open] vs focused and that the ‘attention’ is us. Does that make sense?
Hey brother,
Yes, when you relax this attention, it returns to the source, so it is not fixated on the thinking mind, emotions, or external objects.
Attention is another word added to the inefable truth. We are that
Much love♥️
random question, is the 'Om' in the background played in your house or do you add it to the video
Hey, it’s played in the house.
Much love♥️
I would say that this might change everything, for a person who has just the right karma for it to penetrate. For myself, and for most people, I would say that this will have no effect. The negative, deluded conditioning is too strong. Nothing can get through.
I’m not sure if this will help, but just in case…I doubt you would even be here if something hadn’t already gotten through. The mind is hilarious; it’s doing its best, but it can’t fathom what is penetrated, so it may keep suggesting that nothing’s been penetrated even as realization deepens. But fortunately, it gets easier and easier to recognize these doubt thoughts for what they are. You don’t have to believe them. Terence Stephens uses a thought experiment that you might find helpful. He suggests we imagine that a strange disorder has caused all our thoughts to be in a language we can’t understand. Everything we see is garbled lights and forms, and we can’t distinguish our body from the room where we’re sitting. But of course, even then, we know we still are here. We feel our beingness, beyond doubt. What are we then? The mind keeps trying to answer, but all its offerings are in a foreign language, so there’s nothing for it to grab hold of. All you can do is feel it. Be it. You actually can’t do anything else. Ever. 😂
Really? Nothing can get through a few beliefs and thoughts?
It's more about general attitude rather than karma, most people have wrong ideas about what karma is or represents, getting hit by a bus whilst crossing a street doesn't necessarily mean an unfolding of or related to karma ... Genuinely good or evil bad people can and get hit by a bus for that matter... you probably know of friends dear to your heart which died although they were amazingly loving great persons... Our world is filled with human drama while the pendulum moves from apathy to empathy, from empathy to apathy in a painful slow way to endure and perceive on a personal level. I understand why you bring this up, but at the same time you still have a lot to understand about the nature of things, including yourself... This is probably somewhat what this video is all about, layers and layers of perceptions are clouded because we believe to know the difference in between right and wrong... because our reality is the right only reality... right? ❤
❤thankyou
Sending love your way♥️
With all the respect in the world my brother Tony, I have to disagree a bit with you.
I do agree that Identification with thoughts is the core of a lot of suffering. And instead of identification with thought I would say the main problem is being lost in thought, meaning that you lose control of your thoughts to a degree that you might even be thinking without realizing. Basically is thoughts with 0 control.
In the center of what you're saying is the realization that we are not the thinkers of our thoughts, and I have to say, saying that "Hey, you don't need to suffer because you're not even the thinkers of our thoughts" is also simply a belief.
Think about it this way. Some people get compulsive thoughts and some people even get compulsive actions with their hands and arms (for example). Compulsive action it's all the same, it is non conscious actions (and these can be mental actions as well).
The real progress is in being mindfull of these thoughts and start being more conscious about our mental activities. This is correct.
But saying "Oh, we are not thinkers of our thoughts", this is just trying to have some psycological relief to our suffering, which is completely understandable, but it's simply a belief and does not tackle the real solution.
Again, talking about the person that has a compulsion in their hands. They spend the entire day during something with their hand that causes them to be uncomfortable. (This is the same as mental activity, I'm just using an physical activity as an example to make it extra clear). If you tell this person "Hey man, you can chill! You are not the thinker or the doer of your actions", this does not absolute 0 help for them. The only possible help this could provide, is a bit of psycological relief because the person will think "Oof, that is not my fault".
What has truly helped me in my experience is: Just like we can take charge of our physical actions in life, we can do it as well with our mental activities. I stopped creating new beliefs like "I'm not the thinker", and started focusing on simply having more experience nagivating my mind and "internal world" consciously. Again, yes, there is a problem with being lost in thought, but that it's fixed by consciously practicing and being aware that thoughts are simply a tool for us, not really who we are, they are just part of what we can use.
Oh sweet irony - Nonduality itself is a thought\belief system.
And like many who've adopted a belief system, they're utterly convinced it isn't a belief, but is actually objective truth about reality.
not if nonduality is utterly perceived as such. Perceptions are not beliefs. You can perceive your arm rising, for example, so you don't need to believe it, since you KNOW what's going on. But of course, the very arm can be illusory, because you could be dreaming that you see your arm, and yet see it rising.
But you can proceed to reality-checks in this "awake" reality, so as to embody the understanding that all is one, and that all we see is merely a reflection of inner processes. This perception is not a belief, but the result of a scientific inner investigation and clear seeing. But if one keeps only parroting the discourse of nondualism without direct experience, that's merely another belief system indeed.
♥️🙏🏼😘
@@RogerioLupoArteCientifica "Perceptions are not beliefs."
Yet beliefs can create and influence perceptions.
And if one is lacking in self-awareness or isn't aware of blind spots or bias', or isn't engaged in robust self-evaluation...one can create a belief about an experience, even direct ones, and form incorrect conclusions of said experience.
Then there's the issue of desire, how emotion can drive a person to accept a conclusion..the stronger the positive emotion during "direct" experiences, can result in emotional influence to form incorrect conclusions due to the emotional high one has.
"Scientific inner investigation and clear seeing."
So how does one scientifically determine the level of clarity of one's perception?
By what criteria does one evaluate one's being in order to 100% accurately establish 100% unclear perception and 100% clear perception?
Then how does one, with 100% accuracy, determine they are operating in 100% direct engagement?
Then, what's the definition of 'direct experience'?
What do folks actually mean when they say 'direct'?
...just to cite a few of my queries of this faith-based religion.
But how come awareness contracts and expands following your (or mine?) directions? Isn't a direction to "focus here" a thought itself?
yes but where did this thought come from? It was suggested by a video you just watched, hence it's not under your command. And from now on, memory can bring it back, and this is yet another involuntary process, even if you remember to remember it.
All thoughts arise as a result of what comes before in an infinite chain that traces back to the big bang. As Nisargadatta said, "everything is the cause of everything else and trying to find a specific cause for the events is pointless". Even the thoughts that suggest focusing on specific things can come either from outer sources or from embodied conditioning (from culture, social demand/hypnosis/brainwashing, from body needs etc.).
But ultimately it doesn't make any difference if thoughts command focus. What matters is the realization that none of that is under our control, hence identification with thoughts is illusory, since thoughts are neither ours nor ourselves.
What is meaning of ‘ Identified with’ ? Can you explain it ? As i dont belong to English speaking country so please.
i am this or i am that. When we see things and we respond to it, sometimes even force how things should be. When you pay attention to the sensastion your body perceive and notice the movement of how the "i" respond and giving that sensastion meaning. Therefore perception, therefore a state of subject, and perhaps "identification" is seen.. which is if you go in to it.. you might notice that identification is seperating.. which non~liberating
🙇
What is the meaning of wandering mind? Is it actually the wandering thoughts? Why is it so difficult to focus the mind? Are thoughts useless then?
Maybe it's practice, maybe it's your particular brain that's wired like that, maybe there's so many simuli or thoughts or emotions going under the surface of attention that there's little energy left to follow the will to focus
They say your thoughts are a good servant but a pore master. Let your awareness be the master. The witness of the thoughts. But the witness doesn’t make decisions it’s only the thoughts that make judgments. But if you can see the decision or judgments from the position of the witness. Your life will go in as it should.
To do this needs a lot of practice and most people get sucked back into believing they are their thoughts 😢
When i hug another my attention goes to the mind thoughts oh im so bad i cant feel love etc ,i cant feel the love even though I desperately want to.. what am i doing wrong please or how do i feel the feelings i want to feel ?
Please
Hey, try to stop wanting, because wanting something creates tension and resistance as, NOW is not perfect yet and something is missing.
But they are created by the mind.
Stop all wantings, what you seek is what you already are in essence.
Much love♥️
I don’t see how moving attention around ends identification w/thoughts. It does bring awareness to attention and it’s movement but not sure of this correlation to dis-identification.
👍👍👍✌💯
♥️✨🙏🏼
I don't quite understand your point because I don't think I am my thoughts. I think that I am having thoughts. For example, if a thought arises like: "Paris is in France." That is just one of thousands of thoughts I could have. But I don't believe that I am that statement.
So long as you believe thoughts belong to you, there is a “you” that claims ownership over them. Those thoughts are part of “me;” They are “my” thoughts. “I” am having them.
There is no separate self floating behind your eyes that owns any aspect of thoughts, emotions, sensations, or perceptions. ❤
@@davekay7221 But have you first appreciated the difference between saying that I am my thoughts and that I am having thoughts? You are raising a deeper point. Most spiritual teachers say that you are not your thoughts but that you are pure awareness, which is also very different from the point you are making. They are claiming a grander version of a self, ie., true self vs false self. Your point is most accurate. No self.
@@sanekabc Teachers must first encourage seekers to break the bonds that limit the illusory self to mind/body. The self next takes up residence as “I am limitless love, awareness, God.” That Self eventually drops away as well (though most don’t make it that far on the path). Enlightenment is complete ego death-the relative ego and the enlightened ego. What remains is form and emptiness.