Angel - 5x18 "Origin" Reaction
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- I react to another episode of Angel, enjoy!
Angel aired on The WB.
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Completely agree that this is a much better fate for Connor - now he gets to live his happy, ordinary life while knowing that he has another father who loved him enough to give him the family he loves. And Angel gets the comfort of knowing that Connor understands and appreciates everything he gave up for him. That line "I learned that from my father" always gets to me.
Also with Gunn, as well as believing he deserves his fate, it was also refusing to make a deal and sign anything as that's what led to Fred's death.
It’s sad that Wesley’s and Gunn friendship never was the same after season 3, even with the memories wiped. Remember when they were so close in season 2.
I like this ending for Connor so much more than S4's. Erasing Connor's memories meant that the character who aggravated everyone for 1.5 seasons didn't make any amends or thank Angel or get to have any growth at all. The new double-Connor has those memories, so he *is* that person on some level and he does get to make better decisions now. It's a bit awkward that his fake family may or may not have ever agreed to have their memories altered, but they seem good with their current situation.
100% agreed
"I learned that from my father" always makes me cry.
And the prodigal son returns...
Connor fulfills his destiny by killing Sahjhan... AND IT IS WORTH THE WAIT! When Connor's memories kick back in and that genetic sneer (as Willow dubbed it in 'Orpheus') returns to his lips... Sahjhan's time is up! 🖤
WE ALSO GOT THE RETURN OF ADORKABLE DAD!ANGEL 🥰
"I really don't like people touching my neck, you know?" - Connor. GREAT CALLBACK! 🤯
The fact that Cyvus Vail's memory spell was unable to remove Connor's penchant for older women is priceless 😂
"You gotta do what you can to protect your family. I learned that from my father" - Connor ❤😭❤
I'd like to keep Spike as my pet.
The episode that redeems Connor and makes him who we've all (the opinion people hear most - not speaking for everybody) wanted him to be since his first episode.
Just correcting you.. You can't speak for all. "We've all" didn't want him to be as your preference. I enjoyed him the way he was. So please learn within yourself to not speak for all. Each to their own. Thank you.
@@StoryOfUsFinalDraft I wasn't speaking for all. I assumed people would understand it was referencing the majority opinion people see and hear. Of course there are going to be other opinions. It was a quick and casual way of referencing said majority opinion. Sorry if it offended you (I'll edit it if it helps).
I think that conner would never of been able to reconcile his old memorys without the benifit of his new memorys. Also Wesley getting his memorys back will help him to forgive Gunn now he knows he isn't unfalable him self but he now also has the uncertainty of not knowing if Fred would of ever been with him if her memorys were intact.
Connor Reilly is such a good case for nurture over nature. (I also probably shouldn't think it's cute that Illyria is all, "I want to do stuff with Wesley because reasons." It's okay, Illyria, we love Wesley, too.)
The concept of the memories thing and how much or little it changes someone is so interesting. You see certain parts of Connor can't be changed, but so much can. His mental stability, his resilience, his capacity to understand and adjust to his environment, his instincts to trust (or mistrust) the right people, and a sense of fair play that even Angel's never had. But even as a healthy, normal boy his priority is still, "protect the people I love."
It's also brilliant irony when we recall Connor's hatred for lies and magic, the idea that in the end, he WAS saved by a lie.
Wow I never thought about that with Sahjhan. He fulfilled the prophecy by trying to prevent it
It's very Greek.
And Wesley trying to find someone to blame, ends up feeling far more guilty.
I’m thinking the same thing. Without being raised by a psychopath, all that training and surviving a nasty hell dimension, he possibly wouldn’t be able to take him on.
I guess given a decade or two with Angel, fighting evil, maybe he could. But I’m not sure it would be the same.
Prophecies are tricky creatures. They don't tell you everything.
@@ghostofdurruti That Master is right. The prophecy was always gonna happen... because Sahjan was always going to make it happen.
As another great character would later say "it was the only way" as he would fade into dust...
love this episode. great redemption episode for connor and i love how the sahjhan prophecy from season 3 comes full circle here. they finally explain why sahjhan was so desperate to kill connor in season 3.
Yep, a great episode. It also shows that Connor has his father's strength, in being able to have those memories of a life that must feel like someone else's, but yours at the same time, and try to do the best or what's right with it.
This is one of those episodes that makes me think of how far they’ve come, and how far they’re willing to go…
Story time : this was actually the episode where I discovered grown up Connor. Before the start of S5, I had dropped watching Angel since the very episode of his birth. So I actually had no ideas what happened in S4 (and so no ideas why on earth AI ended up running Wolfram & Hart).
This closure indeed is really appreciable. And kinda reminds what they already did for other characters that had kind of a shitty writing off, then get a nice closure episode, namely Oz and Riley.
And it speaks volume about the way Connor was raised by Holtz vs Connor raised by a really loving and mentally healthy family. Cause even when his "true" memories were back, it's his "fake" memories that gave him the mental stability, and probably also the sense of what is wrong and what is right (and that goes beyond notions like law or justice), to not revert to what he was at the end of S4.
I've actually always liked Connor, I've always felt for him with evil cordy twisting his views, makes it even better and makes me happy for his new life.
And I think Illyria is wonderful, so funny she has great scenes and lines.
I always feel so bad for Connor. He never got a chance. What Angel did was the most selfless act I could imagine.
I looooove this episode. We finally got some father/son moments that season 4 so desperately needed. This Angel/Connor relationship could have been a great storyline back then...if only.
Who would've thought you'd be happy to have Connor back. Lol.
Considering how compassionately he took Connor's wrap up in s4, I'm not too surprised. I was genuinely excited to see his reaction to his return.
In Angel at least, Wesley is the guy that we can all identify with. He is limited, he is human, he is savage when conditions force him to be. But he feels a lot.
I think about Connor in this episode and it always makes me think about what we could have gotten with more seasons. Taking Dawn in Buffy for example, I think most people would agree that the best version of her character is in season 7. She certainly was never as well-liked in seasons 5 and 6, but she gradually gets better, and by season 7 a lot of people liked her. I truly believe the same thing would have happened with Connor, and it sucks we never got that with him.
Another irony is how Sahjan spent season 3 trying to avoid his prophecy and basically set himself up for it.
This is my favorite episode
Great episode lad, you are correct, redeems Connor and who he would of been without the trauma.
I friggen love this episode and Connor is so good in it!
Now this is the Connor I like. Everyone getting their memories back 😥
Now it's all coming back. A few old and new memories. Now I get what Angel was doing.
One of my favorite episodes of season 5!
2:36-the crazy thing about this is, didn’t Angel take off for the Summer after Buffy died, & they weren’t even together at the time. Also, I know this is leading up to the final episode (series finale), but from their prospective, they don’t really have a clear main villain/Impending apocalypse to stop. For all Angel knows, it could be months before the next major threat.
Demonic delightful fact: Cyvus Vail is portrayed by the same actor who played adult Eddie Kaspbrak in the original 1990 *IT* miniseries.
No way. The little wimpy kid with asthma?
@@discardmyfriends Yep. The very one, Dennis Christopher.
@@UatuOmega oh you mean adult Eddie. I was imagining the kid for some reason lol
@@discardmyfriends Oh, yeah. I should have been more specific. lol I'll edit the original comment. 😄
He's also DiCaprio's right hand man in Django Unchained.
Connor secretly remember the girl name Sunny he save her from Tyke. She give him first kiss. They're truly endgame together. I wish she still alive in Angel TV show so she continues to be Connor's first female friend and first love.
Angel shouldn't have the right to unilaterally decide who gets to remember what, whether or not he has the best of intentions. It speaks to his character of being a control freak and thinking he knows what's best for everyone. He did it when he wiped Buffy's memory and the day in I Will Always Remember You thinking he was doing what's best.
💯💯💯
He doesn't but in that situation most people would save their child from self destruction. As for the buffy one, the universe said him being had profound repercussions. He did what he thought best with what little info he was given
@@latraeosborne3287 Notice he didn't tell Buffy what happened before she left LA and never picked up the phone because he thought she deserved to know about the events that directly impact her life. Yeah, that's controlling behavior. Angel has every right to want to protect his son, but doing so required him to violate people's minds. Taking away people's autonomy is something often explored in the Buffyverse and it never something good. Glory taking Tara's sanity, Willow making everyone forget in Tabula Rasa, Giles drugging Buffy when she turned 18 so her powers would be weakened...it all explores VIOLATION. Angel had no right to do that to his friends regardless of his intentions.
@@seanthomas3091 No one is saying he did. What we're saying is that he did what was best for his child and any parent worth their salt would do the same in a heartbeat. The Buffy one is unnecessary heartbreak for both involved. The reason why it's almost never good is because it's almost always done for the wrong reason: Glory is only helping herself, Willow was in a deep state of denial, and Giles was abusing someone he looks at like a daughter for something he doesn't even believe in. I agree that Angel should have told people but we don't what would've happened if he had told his team about Connor. Angel reserves the right to do whatever is the best thing for his son and that meant warping reality. It was his only option
@@latraeosborne3287 "You have a choice. Not a good one but there is always a choice." Buffy Summers. Saying Angel had no choice but to warp reality and violate ppl's minds is tantamount to excusing abusive behavior. And any parent worth their salt? Heaven forbid we have parents who would abuse innocent people like that. It's selfish. Angel could have had Connor committed in an institution or made the agreement so that only Connor's memories got wiped. Wesley and the others are adults and didn't need him to make that choice for them.
The saddest thing for me about this show ending is not getting to see more of connot 2.0. In my opinion he should be considered a seperate character from original Connor, as Nurture makes up so much of who we are.
You never thought you could learn to love Connor but they pull it off (as they do with Riley).
When did they do it with Riley?
@@spikesecho724 As You Were?
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho Oh, the general consensus Ive gotten from fans is that episode doesn't redeem Riley at all and makes people dislike him even more 🤷
@@spikesecho724 Oh come on, give him a break! I might do a poll on Reddit asking this question.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho What does he do in that episode that makes you like him? The buck-up speech to Buffy at the end?
Vincent plays Jonathan Crane? Oh man now I should check out titans
I worked so hard to suppress my knowledge of Connor in Season 3 and 4, and Wesley had to go break the magic box and restore all of my memories. Thanks Wes, I'm glad you feel terrible about it.
It is true that Angel's choice to join W&H and alter the memories of Connor and the team was not directly correlated with Fred's death. However in the end, Wesley is right- it was part of the price. If they had never come to W&H, Fred never would have met Knox and Knox would never have chosen her to be Illyria's vessel. By extension, Gunn's current existence in a hell dimension is also part of the price. It is basically the butterfly effect. Every choice we make in life has consequences, some big, some small- but they are all consequences. In fact, that is played out on a slightly smaller scale with Gunn's decision to sign the customs paper that brought Illyria's sarcophagus to the W&H offices. Perhaps this is the darker side of "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do". The things we do, the choices we make, they all matter.
Wesley's assertion that the lies and stories we tell ourselves help us to endure the truth is something I can relate with. I have certainly done things in my life of which I am not proud and at times I have altered the story- if not to others, at least in my own mind- to make it more palatable, to maybe put me in a better light. I imagine many of us have. I love how this show takes relatable issues we all face in our own everyday lives, puts a fantasy spin on it and in doing so gives us all a new perspective.
This show... remember how evil Willow and even Jonathan were when they erased/changed memories? Somehow it is supposed to make Angel more heroic. I always have internal conflict on that point. Maybe it has to do with motivation... but I think it's the consent that causes the problem. On a less confusing note... hurrah for well adjusted Connor. ("I've always loved older women." and "They were supposed to fix that." LOL)
When mentally ill people are threatening harm against themselves or others, we don't wait for their consent to put them in the psych ward at the hospital where they will be pumped full of drugs that alter their mindset and behavior. We literally had to have my wife's aunt emergency petitioned last week. I feel 0 guilt about doing it against her consent. She was rolling around town with a shotgun saying the voices were telling her someone was going to get her. I doubt she'll be mad at us when she gets out, but I don't care. I'm glad she's alive and safe, trying to move past it. That's all that matters.
Intent 100%. I mean... if Buffy had found a way to erase everyone's memories of Dawn being the Key, I'd bet she would have done that too. It would also likely be done without consent, but the intent would be to save the lives of many.
Jonathan's actions were selfish, and put people in harm. Same with Willow's. You could even say it was the same with Tara in Family when she made everyone not see demons.
Angel here was acting in good faith... kill your son, or give him a better life.
ALL that being said... if I were Wes, I would've broken that thing too, because from his POV his mind was violated, and you can't tell him otherwise. Still... as an audience, we know why Angel did it, and we know what his other option would have been.
Very true. He made the decision for Buffy as well. His entitlement over controlling what people know is weirdly praised
@@spikesecho724 Buffy not remembering that he became human was the price of doing the right thing and remaining a champion, not the thing that was right. What a weird way to spin that situation.
@@hardybryan I mean, you can try to spin it that way with that justification, but Angel created the situation (by not being secure enough in his value/worth as a force of good as a "mere" human) and then agreed to the consequences (raping Buffy's memories without her consent) so that he could continue on his redemption path as a vampire.
The one episode I can actually stand Connor in. Ha. And I agree, I think this rounds out his character. And blunts his earlier performance, in a good way.
This episode rules. I hated Connor in season 4 but think he’s so great in this one and I love how they tied up Connor and sijahn while also really moving the Wesley storyline forward. Great stuff
Please return you trays & seats to the upright position, you’re in the Endgame now, my friend; I’m so very excited for you!
Sadly these last couple episodes could’ve made been spread out between 2 seasons
I hope you'll cover the comics "After the fall" next... You should read this before Buffy Season 8.
Okay: 1. Love the shade at the Spike thirsting/simping/woobifying comments. I like Spike but his fans can be a bit much (come at me idc)
2. I know Angel's reaction to Wesley's grief comes off as cold, I get it, but on the other hand his tough love approach is appropriate I think, because Wesley isn't caring about his friends, he's just obsessing over Illyria. Illyria is not Fred and he needs to shift focus and help get Gunn back.
3. I love this version of Connor so much😭 especially not wanting to fight.
4. I loved this reaction! It was one of the ones I was actually counting down to see!
5. Also, of course Wesley's belief of what the memories were about had to be about Fred. Because he apparently thinks everything has to do with Fred. I get it but still....
They can be esp after the attempted rape team Angel even tho I like both spike would be better with faith for me
@@Alejandro333777 Also a Spuffy I can get behind Spaith but some of the worst anti Spike people are Fuffy shippers and they want the ladies together. To be honest if they could devise a better ship for Spike I'd even be on board with that but some of the Fuffys are arseholes. Then again that's every flavour of shippers and most categories of people except those entirely composed of arseholes.
Bet you didn't see that coming. Lol
Please bring doing something with the other Liam at the very end. ❤️