APR PCV Plate - Crankcase Pressure Tested
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- Check out www.datadrivenmqb.com/mk8pcv for latest information/more relevant links/info/etc.
Some screenshots of the data in this video and written summary of info here:
www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetr...
• Confirmed: Turbo Inlet...
• Track Tested: MK8 Basi...
• MK8 PCV Basic vs Full ...
0:00 Intro
0:26 Plate vs OEM PCV changes
0:33 Vacuum at idle/low load
0:58 OEM blow-by path
1:22 (Most) PCV plates blow-by path
2:10 APR PCV plate blow-by path
2:53 3rd gear pull comparisons
2:56 APR Plate + BMS TIP 3rd gear pull
3:49 APR Plate + OEM TIP 3rd gear pull
4:12 APR + BMS TIP vs MK8 Basic + OEM TIP
4:46 APR vs MK8 Basic w/ BMS TIP
5:48 APR vs MK8 Full w/ BMS TIP
6:01 APR plate in daily driving
6:44 Challenges in testing
7:53 Normal driving - APR plate w/ BMS TIP
8:59 Small pressure pulses at idle
9:13 Normal driving - APR plate w/ OEM TIP
9:47 Normal driving - MK8 Basic
10:12 Normal driving - APR plate vs MK8 basic
10:35 Normal driving - MK8 Full
10:55 APR can emptied
11:04 Surprise oil in TIP
11:48 Summary of what we've learned
12:02 PCV plate vacuum is UNREGULATED
12:25 Why did I get oil in the TIP?
12:44 What can cause too much vacuum?
13:14 PCV plate vs OEM have different vacuum needs
13:52 Turbo inlets are part of the whole system
14:07 OEM PCV vacuum requirements
14:26 PCV plate vacuum requirements
14:48 Dedicated track cars
15:50 Daily drivers/street only
16:11 Daily + light track use
16:52 Daily + heavy track use
17:34 How to interpret these findings
18:00 MK8 Full retrofit + catch can - future testing
Jeff's TIP PCV vacuum testing:
mygolfmk7.com/2024/01/mk7-tip...
mygolfmk7.com/2024/02/tip-pcv...
we appreciate you!
Thanks for doing these tests and collecting this data. It's definitely helping a lot of us out!
Great work as always 👏
Awesome! I have the APR plate with a Garrett 2260s. Now I'm curious if the larger turbo is potentially sending oil to the inlet. Im also relieved to find that there is not much positive pressure generally with the APR system. That is something I was concerned about. Thank you for taking to time and collecting and explaining this data! Its appreciated. If my setup is helpful I'm open to being a part of your data collection in the future also!
@JustinPike what other mods do you have to accompany the PMAX turbo? I am curious if you've also upgraded your charge pipes? Also, what happens when you remove your oil filler cap at idle...do you have lots of vacuum where it will suck your fingers into it, or do you have some positive pressure and if so how much? Looking forward to your reply as I've been having some issues and i plan to install the same turbo very soon...you can see my problems above in this same post.
Bravo...fantastic work on-par with Blazing Saddles 😂. Really good testing and interesting results!
@karstgeo7290 ahh... a man of fine tastes I see. 🎩
@datadrivenmqb I have a 034 plate that you can test, etc.
Bonjour je fait par de mon retour sur une pcv racing line depuis installations le 1er démarrage de la journée et compliqué..
Avec la pcv d'origine elle démarre directe.
Love it indepth data and testing keep it up
This is a great video! A lot of good information here. My car will see the track from time to time and will see some great spirited runs as well. I have been on the fence on either MK8 retrofit or going with this APR catch can. The car is a MK7 with stage 2 tune along with a 034 Motorsport Intercooler and Racingline Oil Cooler. I would love your thoughts on the addition of a catch can in this scenario.
All the info you need is in the video. I can’t say for certain one or the other won’t have any issues. IMO the MK8 is superior from a daily/dual purpose standpoint.
I have the stock inlet with mk8 pcv plate on my mk7 and not full retro
Thank you for your efforts. This is very valuable info. My mk7 Golf R is stock, except 034 TIP and EQT stage 1 tune. I have a track day April 1 at Laguna Seca. I assume I should put the stock TIP back on for the track day? Thank you!
I’d at least bring the stock one with you just in case. I’d expect the stock one to be more likely to work OK though.
Super jealous of Laguna Seca ❤ fortunately it’s primarily LH turns which aren’t as hard on these cars in general.
Regardless of TIP, as mentioned in a prior video it’s still possible to suck oil, it’s just less time spent with the diaphragm open with a stock one.
Check out this article and video (long but goes DEEP into this topic) for more info:
www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/just-the-tip-testing
Awesome work so far. I'm also very interested in the radium plate you mentioned. Maybe it's a magic bullet that performs like the mk8 valve without having to retrofit parts from other cars?
The Radium plate will solve the vacuum at idle - but does nothing for the weird part-throttle transition before boost starts building. I predict it'll be very similar to a basic retrofit as far as characteristics go... with the exceptions being
1. Not breathing from the oil/blow-by pathway so near-zero chance of oil surge and
2. Maintaining about -1psi isn't an absolute must since there's no diaphragm to keep shut. So it'll require a light vacuum draw just like the APR plate.
There is some other stuff at play that the MK8 valve has a big advantage on that I didn't go into too much detail (wanted a
Great info. Thnx for the video!
Any plate systems that you could actually recommend for a daily driven car, for the sake of “jewelry for the car”
Or is that plug in from ecs, the one that allows for a catchcan on the firewall; is that ok?
Turbo is a dtr6054
Honestly I don't think so. Bigger turbos it gets a bit iffy on recommendations. Not sure if you saw it but at 18:00 I went over something I'm currently testing.
There's a LOT more that I've been up to... but IMO that's probably the best option for many, though I still feel the can is unnecessary. Especially on the street. Going to see how much it accumulates over the next several weeks and next autocross event.
@@datadrivenmqb thanks for the reply!
I have a 2024 Jetta GLI so it comes with the MK8 PCV plate and venturi even though most of the rest of the engine is MK7 obviously a weird cross between the 2.
I was wondering, because you said the best setup for a daily would be a full retrofit plus the BMS TIP, is the BEST setup for a daily driver......if that's what I should go ahead and do?
The only mods I'll be doing is a secondary CAT delete, few shifter bushings upgrades, and now possibly this TIP of you're saying it's better than the stock one.
I haven’t seen the GLI setup myself. If it’s got a Venturi only setup (like MK8 GTI/R), then TIP choice likely won’t matter. If it has a funny split hose at the TIP like the 21 Tiguan then when tuned, TIP choice could come into play. But for daily driving only it really won’t matter either way. I think I was talking more in context of daily driven + track time as far as a “best” setup goes.
I wouldn’t worry about spending money on a TIP or anything, unless you really want to.
I am having a major issue with crank case pressure after upgrading my car to a bigger turbo HPA IS38+ and all the accompanying mods. ECS Turbo inlet pipe and charge pipes, APR downpipe and 3" exhaust. iE Intercooler, and modified stock intake. I also tried running a VTT crankcase breather. So my issue was major crank case pressure at boost causing the car to smoke like crazy! At idle i have a ton of vacuum as it will suck your fingers into the oil filler. I tried running a VTT catch can system and that just made it worse! I have a garrett 2260 that i plan to try ASAP along with an iE intake as i think this could have some effect on it with the secondary air injection?
Sounds like a bad PCV or a really loose engine needing a rebuild. Passing the idle test isn’t the only way to tell. Secondary air has nothing to do with the PCV system. I’d start with leakdown and compression tests before throwing more parts at the car.
@@datadrivenmqb Ok some more history...previously the car was APR stage 2 with a downpipe. The original turbo let go by way of the exhaust turbine separating and when it let go I got the typical cloud of oil smoke. I shut the car off immediately and had it towed from there. Prior to the turbo incident the car ran flawlessly - no issues et'all! That's when i upgraded everything with the HPA oem+ IS38 and iE's tuning. List of upgrades include: HPA oem+ IS38 with their muffler delete, iE FDS intercooler, ECS charge pipes & TIP and intake hose with heavily modded stock CAI, plugs & coils. Right after the upgrades i tried running a VTT oil cap filter breather in place of the oil cap and it would saturate the filter and get oil all over the place when driving and at this time i still had the original PCV in place and the car ran great with no oil smoke just the oil breather getting oil all over the place! So i tried a VTT catch can system and it immediately started smoking after installation so much so that i thought i had a defective catch can cause that was the only change and now it was smoking like crazy! I tried an APR catch can and same thing! Put back on a PCV and the smoking stopped at idle and now only smokes in boost. So i thought the same thing that some how between all the changes i dropped a ring, lost a valve seat something!? Did a comp test and i got 190 + across all four!!! Now what!!?? I must have done something wrong or i got a defective part somewhere but i've yet to find it!!?? Unless you have some wisdom you would like to impart on where maybe i should look first i plan to tear it apart again and inspect every hose etc for leaks, loose connections, something not connected or connected wrong missing something!!?? Unless I find something major my plan is to go back together with a new Garrett PMAX 2260s turbo, MK8 PCV and make provisions to connect the venturi? With that said do you have any suggestions on where i should locate the 3/8 hose barb that i'll need to connect it? Should i drill and tap into the turbo charge outlet pipe itself or should i install it in the ECS charge pipe or other? Man, any assistance you can lend here would be greatly appreciated as this one has me baffled for now. Knowing that the motor is still good I'm bound to find something!?
I have an IS38 turbo on my mk7.5 GTI with CTS Turbo inlet . If i go with mk8 PCV retrofit should i keep my CTS inlet or go back to OEM inlet before i track the car?
Basic retrofit: Keep OEM TIP - primarily if you track or autocross the car. It's less than ideal but you likely won't experience noticeable issues on the street.
Full retrofit: Keep the CTS TIP. The Venturi boost provides plenty of vacuum, and having a ton of it naturally from the OEM TIP does work, but not as well as with a higher flowing/lower vacuum TIP.
@@datadrivenmqb Thanks. Can you send me a link to the full retrofit mk8 pcv kit?
@@ravenstylea2 www.datadrivenmqb.com/mk8pcv
I already bought everything for the full retrofit. is it still worth using if im just street driving the car? I cannot return anything lol. I have a APR TIP
Honestly street driving is where it seems to have the best benefits. Keeps the crankcase under a consistent vacuum where the APR plate just doesn't.
Even though my use case probably would lend itself well to running the APR plate, I'm doing what I can to maintain an OEM PCV w/ vacuum available at all times until it becomes a problem.
Do you recommend a non oem pcv? I recently purchased a pcv from Amazon but it doesn’t seem like it’s oem
Curious to see it. Got a link?
I was a tech for 17yrs. Aftermarket parts are junk more often than not. For VW PCV parts I buy straight from a dealer. Bring your local parts guy donuts to try and bribe a discount 🥸
@@datadrivenmqbok I will order a oem pcv since I’m fbo upgraded turbo setup
I purchased one....not bad and backed by FCP
basicly stay with oem, unless you go full rebuilt engine and heavy boost
I think the main issue is road course/autocross use. You’ve gotta do something when it’s being pushed like that.
On the street you can get away with less than ideal setups.
Hi, I've got a audi s3 8v 2014, only 31000 miles on the car, dedicated track car with no street use, ive got a baffled alloy sump, decat and resonator delete exhaust, ramair intake, going for a stage 1 engine tune and a dsg tune in the next few weeks, last track day i used a little oil, about half way on dipstick, i was considering a catch can set up but landed on your video and now wondering would a mk8 pcv be my best approach ?? Thanks
For track only I'd personally go straight to the APR PCV plate. It seems that a free flowing TIP pairs best with the APR plate based on my testing.
Thanks for the response, when you say the apr pcv plate I assume you mean complete catch can set up? Thanks
@@garydowzell6846 yes, the kit used in this video. It's roughly $700ish last I checked.
That's great, thanks for the series on the pcv, it's great to see actual data rather than sales blurb from companies who are trying to sell you something!!, Gary
I might give this a go, I tried the full retrofit and I still get smoke coming from the exhaust. When taking turns on boost:( Currently running is20 stage 2 by eqt, or might try to retrofit a bms catch can with the full retrofit
It does not smoke with the stock tune…. Eqts tune might be a little too spicy
@@erickocampo8198any chance you have a 2015-16 model year car?
After watching all of your vids is it safe to conclude that aftermarket TIPs are unnecessary and introduce the need to work on other areas to reintroduce what it provides?
Yeah that's basically it in a nutshell. OEM PCV has different needs than a plate.
Full retrofit works well enough with either, but too much vacuum seems to be less ideal as the diaphragm bounces around a bunch? I've tracked it like that without issues. But throwing a $100 BMS TIP on it helps stabilize everything. I imagine CTS, 034, and others that have a lip/chamfer just before going into the turbo would be similar.
Pretty cool stuff. Would be very interesting to see how the VTT (Vargas Turbo) catchcan system works. Have you ever tested or researched this option? They claim appealing things, especially with their crankcase breather oil cap; but they seem to be legit and backed up by data. I would like to know your thoughts on it🔥💪🏼
It seems interesting but I’ve never seen one in the wild. I think if you “need” the breather cap then your PCV system isn’t designed right. That cap is only meant to be used on stock systems btw.
Apparently dealing with VTT is awful according to many, but I have no direct experience.
@@datadrivenmqbIve been running the VTT oil cap breather for ovr a yr now on my mk7.5R money well spent thers still oil in TIP but no where near as much as b4 and i can bac that up cuz oil loss is almst 0% now im crazy and chk oil level b4 every drive evn if im gonna b l8 b4 oil cap breather i was adding mayb 1-2 Qt annually now half Qt
my driving style and mileage were very similar for the 2 yrs
correct me if im wrong but negative pressure or vacuum in crankcase is what we want, positive pressure bad lol shit ther goes my rear main seal
pcv plates regardless of the company are completely free flowing? so unless ur on boost thers no vacuum or + positive rite so isnt that bad as well
i no venting to atmosphere will get the emissions police knockin on ur door but wouldnt that be best
for example make a one way breather pcv using the same design as the vtt cap breather which is jus a hole with a slightly larger ball then 3-4 baffle plates wit stainless steel stripped mesh in between then run to catch can that has a air filter breather and block off TIP pcv port
or utilize the entire point of the dip stick and where blowby starts to move up and create a baffled oil drip stick one way breather combo and make a high heat clear pcv block off plate a lil window into ur cars soul if u will
gravity is our friend wit the baffled dip stick breather under vacuum the oil would jus move bac down to sump
food for thought looking forward to ur 2cents ...
wait 3cents cuz the government will round u down to 0
added note the VTT oil cap breather needs to be secured in place is does hav slots milled out to fit like the oil cap but doesnt hav the spring assisted tension like the oil cap i used 2 extreme weather rated zip ties in a figure 8 pattern 1 around the base of breather super tight so breather wont turn the other zipped to the mounting point (not the line itself) of that small dia. metal coolant or oil line that i believe does to turbo if u get idle rpms goin up and down ur zips rnt tight or placed wrong
@@nathannsxmarques9110 you have an aftermarket turbo inlet pipe right?
Thats what causes an OEM PCV to not work correctly and go into positive pressure (primarily when first getting onto throttle). In that case yes I could see the VTT oil breather helping in that case.
Vacuum is ideal as it actively evacuates blowby, not just let it linger around and eventually find it's way out.
@@datadrivenmqb no its stock jus hav afterM intake, intake, new big battery, oil cap breather, stainless steel & aluminum high flow oil filter and a aluminum oil filter housing r the only performance upgrades done in engine bay
hav u done any testing with spark plug gapping tolerances
@@nathannsxmarques9110 no I haven't.
Jeff's website ain't working for me
Looks like his site is currently down
ur video is not golden but diamond LUL
I’m in the middle of just researching these cars (thinking about a mk7 golf r). I would be modding it (ecu/tcu tune, and maybe some other bolt ons). Would changing the turbo inlet pipe , and mk8 pcv setup not be a good idea?
Honestly I’d just not worry until issues arise. I don’t put anything on my car unless it has an actual purpose. Some people are fine on OEM PCVs, some not. No sense in spending money if it’s not absolutely needed.