"Paw back" is not a thing in running
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2023
- This is mainly because the movement backwards in relation to the ground is meant to create the force that pushes you forwards when you run. It is also very common for good runners and coaches to show how they have their foot raised in front of them and then strike it down and backwards so that it lands under the body. This movement backwards in relation to the ground is often called 'paw back'. But paw back is not a thing. You should not pull your foot backwards at all. And if you look at elite runners, you will see that their feet generally do not move backwards to any great extent either, but more straight down towards the ground and quite often also a little forward/downwards. Because it is not the foot that moves backwards. It is the body that moves forwards. How this works I clearly explain in this video.
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Fredrik Zillén is an running technique specialist that has over the years helped thousands of runners to a more efficient running technique - from the slowest beginners to members of the Swedish national team in running and triathlon who have participated in the World Championships and the Olympics. Fredrik also writes articles on effective running technique for Runner's World magazine.
Following the success of Fredrik Zilléns online course in Swedish, he has also produced an updated and improved version in English. You can find it here: www.fredrikzillen.com
You find the Swedish version at: www.fredrikzillenonline.se
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please continue to make videos about these stupid runnning laws that influencers make, it is so refreshing to hear real information
there is a trend of hippy running videos that is quite funny.
This is so obvious watching elite runners in slow-mo that it's amazing the incorrect ideas can persist. Thanks for explaining so thoroughly.
Your knowledge is amazing. I really want to buy your online course, but it's really expensive. I am Vietnamese, and 180 euros is not a small number, it is equal to 2 months of my salary.😢
Fredrik! What an excellent video! You explain actually quite complicated biomechanical systems very clearly! Thank you so much! Many years ago I needed to learn how to run better and got sucked into the whole Pose/Chi/barefoot rabbit hole and only learned how little science they actually know. Great to see someone who explains in simple terms what we actually need to do to become more efficient runners. When I recover from injury I shall be buying your course. Thank you 🙏
This is absolutely terrific - thank you.
Great info, and I love your enthusiastic deliveries! 😃
another really good video on running technique. you are so good at this Fredrik and you do it with facts in a simple way. Thanks
You are a good man! Often movements are not what they seem to be! We always come back to the forward momentum and the power from the hip as major contributors that propel you forward while running! Which makes even more important to land your foot under your center of mass or slightly ahead of it depending on the time it takes your ligaments to absorb the force coming in at touch down.
The beauty with your explanation is that it simplifies every thing and a simple movement can be done so much faster than a complex one!
Your videos are GOLD and I hope more people discover these hidden treasures!
I almost forked out a bunch of $ to have my form analyzed by one of these said influencers. As a newer runner (from never running to a marathon in a year), I saw decent improvements in my pace those first few months. Lately, I'm improving still, just more slowly. Guess I was hoping for some form changes that would remove inefficiencies and immediately improve my pace.
Thank you for all these informative videos. I'm off to watch and learn some more.. 🤓
Great info many thanks again !
Gadoonk - gadoonk - gadoonk 😂
I love your videos
Thank you for this! When you first released this video I didnt watch it because I has never heard the term "pawback" before. Several days ago my curiosity got the better of me, and I watched it. I should have done that day one. I have been training for my first half marathon and was dismayed at the knee pain I have been fighting against. This video really opened my eyes to the concept of where/how my feet are supposed to strike as opposed to where I kept hearing they would strike if I did a b and c. In trying your method out that evening I did 3 miles on the treadmill and it was the best run I think I have ever had. It was like a new world. My knee pain actually went away, and my heart rate was lower. Running was truly enjoyable. The next day was 5 miles, on the treadmill again with icy roads outside. Again, a great run like I have never had before. Only very minimal knee soreness. Today was 2 miles outside in pretty extreme cold and on snowy roads. Again, no knee pain any more. I can't thank you enough. As a still pretty new runner I feel like this video has helped me save my upcoming half marathon and fitness goals. Thank you!
Hi Frederik, your explanation makes sense, thanks for your work. Maybe the follow up question for a next video would be: "How do you push your body forward". - a continuation on your remark on hip, knee and ankle.
I don't doubt a word you said (because it's clearly what's happening when running and everyone with eyes can see it 😅), but I have to say, IMAGINING the world as a spinning ball I'm pushing backwards under my feet helped me a lot. It's not that I actually think that's what's happening, it's just giving me better forward orientation and a feeling of being "light on my feet". 💙
same here, only started running recently but the pointer i found somewhere on reddit to "move the earth under you like you do with your finger when scrolling on your phone" made it so much easier to run and i've not had a single shin splinting issue despite running faster and further than i ever tried before as an adult
Good info, hip movement 👍🏻🏃🏽♂️
We want the jazz dance course from FZ (@2.54)!!! But seriousy, I would love something on how to engage the hip better - I think that I could run as I do now with my knees tied together... :( X
Ka-tunk. Ka-tunk. Ka-tunk.
Totally agree. 😊
That will stick in my head now. It’s so obvious when you see it explained so well.
I’m from Hong Kong, just bought and enrolled your online course today, I found your running concepts are quite good with my 10 years running experience, but my average pace on 10km cannot improve within 5 min/k, hopefully I can learn more from you about my running pose to accelerate my average pace, of course strength exercises can also help me a bit. I’m 54, so I’ll be more patient to avoid any injury. Thanks a lot for your help!
So how was it?
Great video. I am starting to like your way of presenting a lot - just recently stumbled into the channel and there really is a lot of useful information.
If you're ever in Stockholm, try to book a private session with 3d-recording. Worth every penny. Had some (a lot) of problems with knees and shin splints, one session with Fredrik was all I needed to get good enough running form to remove all of those problems.
@@flibben If I'll happen to go there some day, I'll keep it in mind 😊
Shin splints really were some special friend of mine when I started running last winter :x but it seems to be fine now.
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
Love the sound effects. 😁
Sound effects were 🪙 lol
This is the best running coach on youtube
I'm 71 years old and finally figured this out with your help. Where were you 50 years ago????
Ku dunk ku ku dunk that helps a lot if you understand
Good one, totally agree, been running Katoonk-Katoonk for over 55 years now :)
Katoonk, katoonk is the way to go!
I'd like to see an analysis of Luis Grijalva's stride. He appears to be leaning backwards but he's super fast, great young talent
I agree. I think the problem is people see elite athletes having their leg go up high behind them (almost hitting their butt) so they try and emulate that by unnaturally pawing their foot back. That pawing ironically ends up causing more vertical oscillation but without any forward momentum as well. Vertical oscillation has incorrectly been demonised when it’s part of using your elastic system and is good if it takes you up AND forward. On top of your videos I recommend people read Shane Benzie ‘lost art of running’ book which mentions vertical oscillation and also Eric Orton who covers not pawing back the foot. A lot of social media running influencers well intentioned but without properly understanding and interpreting research by the experts. Being a talented runner doesn’t mean they necessarily understand the process and may just have a natural gift.
For me, the muscles that stop further micro compression are the glutes and the hamstrings. I like the feeling of sensing "paw back" to help activate these muscles. However, I'm not actually sliding my feet backwards in relation to the ground. In fact, my drill is to prevent as much friction sounds coming from my shoe as possible. Hence, I'm not actually clawing back but sensing it for the good of my form as I used to heavily rely on my quads and that was so tiring!
Please feel free to comment on my post!
Yes, it's not "ideal" but that way of running gives a lot of stability to the knee, I do the same if I feel my knee hurts a little and when I'm fine I go back to my normal technique.
He doesn’t reply what a bummer.
UPDATE: I applied Fredrik's technique in my last two runs and I experienced a vast improvement! The paw back helped me balance my hamstrings against my stronger quads but now that they're both strong I don't need claw back. I realized that it was just a drill and good for a time to improve muscle balance. But now, by leading from my hips, I'm running my 800's in 4:45, up from 5:15! I'm riding a higher posture, breaking less, and activating other muscles such as my add's and the 2 GM's. I'm getting full hip rotation and striding 1.06m, up from 1.02. I recommend everyone give this running form a try!
Thanks, good video as usual. I didn't realise that anyone would actually promote this, someone lacking common sense or any grasp of physics I guess. I get annoyed with coaches getting people to artificially lift their heels or toes, but this is even crazier.
I do sometimes run like this when I'm really tired, if I realise I walk for a moment for a reset. I've seem videos of distance runners doing it too, presumably for the same reason. As said in the video, it's a good way to damage hamstrings, calves, etc, and it just wastes energy.
People complicate running too much. When I was a kid, I used to do track and field, 400 and 800m. Our couch would have us do drills and drills and drills. The whole team then went to watch the world juniors championship which was in Lisbon (this was in 1994 or 1995). We all watched a Kenyan athlete win barefoot with horrible technique. Our coach just shrugged. Next Saturday we were back to the drills! If you run enough, and correct the obvious posture problems, your body will naturally find its proper balance. That is the only way to run fast! Forget about UA-camrs, watch the pros running: relaxed, fast contact times, balanced. Love your videos by the way! 👍
I think the purpose of the paw-back exercise is to activate the glutes and hamstrings. These muscles aren't used much at a leisure pace, but they are very important at high speeds. Especially at sprinting.
Thank you Sir, even in sprint we should not pawback?
gunk, gunk. I get it now!
Semantics, perhaps, but the foot is moving backwards, at least relative to the body when it hits the ground. In all of the videos of elites, you see their knees beginning to bend, pulling their feet back (relative to the body), before their feet hit. I believe the force they are exerting on the ground is not perpendicular, but at a backwards angle. I see so many runners who shuffle their feet forward when they land. If you listen, it sounds like sandpaper rubbing. Many others land with a thud. If you listen to the elites shown here, you're likely to hear a light slap. To feel the difference, run with your laces very loose, or even with a shoe a bit too large. If you shuffle forward, your feet will slide forward in the shoe. If you pawback (relative to your body), your feet should pull back into the heel.
Truth here. (see my comment also). The guy totally ignores basic Physics (notably Newton's 3rd law of motion) and anatomy.
@@Vo2maxProductions Sage😀reply
Do you have any videos on supination leading to shin splints and pain up the leg through the knee and hip?
In other words, does the bottom point on a bicycle wheel move backwards when it's rolling? It's the same thing. If this is still unclear, look up an animation of a "cycloid" that also illustrates this "bounce".
Crazy stuff, I tried it with borrowed carbon plate shoes, improved my average pace time in 11k by 23 seconds, And I could concentrate doing this maybe half of my run, trying new technique takes time to apply 100% in your run!
😂🏃🏽♂️🏃🏽♂️🫀🫀🫡
Salute
Great insight. It's worth noting that sprinters don't claw back either (including Usain Bolt). If you feel your foot sliding forward or backward in the shoe at footstrike, you are wasting energy!!!
on all the video of athletes in the video did not found the micro compression phase. I though running like swimming catch pull push and relax while switch. So that catch phase is aka landing and `compression`. I do believe that trainers who explain `Paw back` are trying describe the pull phase that vector of force that one need to apply so that one use big mussels at that phase like glutes and quads and not just ligaments and tendons plus calves
Hi, nice video as always. I have two comments/questions:
1) Should the leg (from the hip) actively work "backwards" just after it touches the ground or rather it should be relaxed and let the body move forward? And start to produce force just after the moment when the leg will get directly under the body? (If this is true then it sems to me that at the first phase of the foot contact with the ground the leg is mainly passive support for the whole body.)
2) Is the absence of pawback movement true also for sprinters? It seems to me that it is not true and that during spinting there is some slight pawback movement present (maybe I am wrong) - maybe A/B skip drills are mainly suitable for sprinters...? But in sprinting there is in my oppinion different mechanics of movement as opposed to middle/long distance runners - and it is not only difference in cadence...
Once your foot hits the ground all you need to do is straighten your leg and then extend it (the faster you want to go the more you extend it). while your foot is mostly under the body most of that goes to lifting the body, as your body moves forwards more and more of that effort switches to pushing you forwards. That's just the laws of physics in action. Once your foot is off the ground relax you knee and lower leg and use you hip and upper leg muscles to quickly bring your knee forwards ready for the next stride (again, the laws of physics deal with what your foot does while you start to bring the knee forwards).
Mainly, don't overthink it!
I want to run like Secretariat so help me do this.
Pro, hello from indonesia
Fred..please make a cheaper course. Maybe split the content in half for 90 euro. The exchange rate is making it unaffordable in my country - south africa.
Save your cash. Fred well known for for making good looking videos but his running advice is made up from a load of anecdotal bias
great video! do you have something on "landing under your hip" situation which none of the elite runners do but so many people still insist on? 🤣
Yes. It's called "You should NOT land directly under your body when running". You can find it here on my channel.
Is there value in drills like A/B skips as they have a teaching technique that seems to involve snapping the foot backwards..?
The problem I’ve identified is that these drills are very specific to sprinters that try to take advantage of very specific mechanics. Very different for middle distance and endurance athletes. For example, A skips are supposed to promote high knee drive where it’s super important for sprinters, but rarely do you ever see that level of knee drive for endurance athletes
One other thing… Regarding B skips, I found a video by Noah Lyles that explains that B skips are performed incorrectly by most. He says the goal of it is to snap the foot straight down but not back
Being running marathon for 10 year, my running technic getting worse and worse until fedup to correct it.
I never thought A and B skip drills (the movement's you were showing) were actually supposed to mimic your actual running form. I always used them as part of a warm-up for muscle activity.
Does this mean we shouldn't do the B-skip anymore? It's not strange that the foot can't "slide" over the grond backwards as the impact of the foot is about 6 times your bodyweight, you would have to put grease on your shoes and that would not be a nice run I think.
Great question. I'm not an expert, but I think B-skips aren't about clawing the foot backwards but about using your glutes to get your foot closer to being right under your body when landing.
The problem is that so-called running influencers are taking sprint running forms and applying it to middle distance / endurance running forms. The examples in this video are from various elite endurance runners, but if you compare to elite sprinters, they do show some “paw back” action in their form. This is due to a much higher knee drive and the need to drive their legs down much faster and to generate force into the ground and have a very quick turnover.
Last thing, a lot of sprinters perform the B skip running drill which essentially teaches this circular, paw back motion to promote enhanced front side running mechanics.
I do believe Fredrik has much knowledge and gems which I love, but I believe these distinctions should be made clearly . These concepts exist out there for a reason, but they need to occupy the correct space so that runners don’t get confused.
OK, what if we really bent our knees more...more spring, faster? what is the optimal knee bend?
You need to be able to hold twice+ (the more the better, I suppose) bodyweight of isometric tension, in order to stretch tendons. It gets very hard to maintain that for a longer distance race, with a deep knee bend. So if you get too deep, you'll instead start lifting with your leg muscles, which is not very metabolically efficient. For short sprints up steep hills, much deeper knee bends are required though.
Hi Fredrik, I’m just curious here… are you sponsored by Nike?
paw back is a thing if you want to run/sprint fast aka accelerate! Of course the relative motion to the ground is 0. They are not accelerating!
You guys are distance runners aka slower runners so you don't need it as much as faster runners (no offense). Just the vertical down motion is not good.
The thing is pulling back should happen mostly reflexive not so much intentionally. The active pull back is only possible if the opposite leg is recovering actively.
So it's not a single motion. It's a synergy!
A good cue is forget about any leg/limb movement and just steer with your hips/pelvis in the desired direction. Keep you core engaged and the rest is reflexive.
Claw back is effective for dogs and cats and maybe large birds, but we don’t have claws.
Sprinters practice clawbacks. The purpose isn’t to actually do a clawback, but to teach the sprinter to put his foot down hard and fast.
First, no they don't. Maybe a little, a little for some. But barely visible. I thought about including a film of Sha'Carri Richardson winning the recent World Championships in the 100 metres where you can clearly see how her foot is moving towards the ground in relation to a line in the track and it is clear that her foot is not moving backwards at all in relation to the track. However, I chose to cut it out as my films are about middle and long distance running.
Second: You are contradicting yourself. You say that a sprinter should hit the ground hard. And that is absolutely correct. Hard and fast. But how do you get as much vertical force as possible? By letting your foot go vertically down to the ground while getting your entire body weight on your foot OR by keeping your foot slightly in front of you and pulling it diagonally down/backwards?
@@SpringSnabbare It's happening so fast you can't see it on video very well. Runners don't want "vertical force" they want "horizontal force". Too many runners try to "spring up" and they have way too high a vertical oscillation then. The force vector we want on pawback and push off is more of a horizontal one (Newton's 3rd law of physics). Forward propulsion occurs because of pawback and the force the foot can apply mainly across the ground pushing backwards (not down into it!). Forward momentum of the whole body moving fast over the ground helps of course, but to say there is "no pawback" is completely wrong! Relative to one's center of mass and torso the leading leg must bend the knee and initiate muscle tension with the hamstrings and glutes to generate power in the stride. Otherwise we'd have to rely totally on momentum. This occurs on pawback when the foot is on the ground and muscles are activated to move it back behind the body at a faster rate than the rest of the body is moving forward. Newton's 3rd law.
You are totally ignoring Newton's 3rd law of Physics! So many problems here with what you have been saying. 1. At the 2:14 mark you claim "body is moving forward over the ground" (which it is of course)...however the pawback action is still happening with the leg as *relative to the torso* the leading leg has to still has to engage the hamstrings and glutes with a knee bend. And then of course coming into contact with the ground it is starting to move backwards at a *faster rate* than the center of gravity of your body is moving forward over it relative to the ground....key word here is "relative." Then 2: at the at the 2:45 mark you claim power comes from the "hip, knee, ankle".....however you have to reverse that order as the point of contact with the foot on the ground at toe off must first occur with 1. ankle flexion, then force is transferred UP the leg with the calf, 2. knee and then finally the 3. hip! ...IN THAT ORDER (not what you said!). If the body is in the air the hip is not generating any power....it comes from the feet up! Again around the 5:54 mark you dismiss the idea that the cue of "pawback" is effective and that one should just "drop their foot straight down"....but again, the forward motion of the whole body is still all relative to that leg coming into contact with the ground and push-off! So relative to not only the ground, but also the center of gravity around the torso/hips that leading leg has to be producing a horizontal vector straight back across the ground on impact! You are totally ignoring Newton's 3rd law of physics again. Finally around the 9:30 mark you mention that "if the foot is moving backward when hitting the ground you will hardly get any vertical power at all"....that is exactly what we want! Most runners have way too much vertical oscillation so the the focus should not be on a vertical vector of power or "spring" as you so mention. The whole source of power and forward vector in the stride comes from the hamstrings and glutes pulling the the foot across the ground *right after contact*....otherwise we'd just be "running" on forward momentum....which we are certainly not! It's like you never took university Physics?! 🤦🏻♂
When not accelerating, and running at sub-aerodominated speeds (distance running), there is hardly any external friction at all to fight when running. Once up to the desired speed, all you want to do, is bounce straight up and down, with as little of a horizontal force component as possible.
After all, at a steady speed, any horizontal force driving you forward, will accelerate you, since friction is near nil. So, since pace is held steady, that acceleration MUST, by necessity whether you want to or not, be accompanied by an equal and opposite force slowing you down. Increased horizontal oscillation, IOW, which gets wasteful fast.
A 100 yard dash, and even more so pro sports style 40 yard dashes, is pretty much acceleration the whole length. Those are a whole 'nother animal than steady state distance running, and require lots of net horizontal accelerative force.
I think the issue is people see elite runners with a high butt kick and they think they have to do some kind of unnatural paw back to achieve that instead of it happening naturally. So they end up trying to paw leg back and flick it out so bounce up with just vertical oscillation and no forwards momentum ironically so contradicting what they want to achieve. I saw coach Eric Orton video on avoiding that flick back and focus on push off up and forward. Shane Benzie ‘lost art of running’ book also explains more about demonising vertical oscillation when not always the issue.
They may not all be elite runners but have extensive body of research that do back up what they’re saying. Think sometimes messages get unintentionally misunderstood.
Ya, but what about when Chuck Norris runs? He does not move forward at all. The earth just spins more.
Sorry, this may be some American humor. Not sure if these kind of jokes made it across the pond.
0:46 isn't the reason the world spins because of running...
:p
If you look at slow motion videos of Jacob Kiplimo and Joshua Cheptegei in long distance races you can see that their foot is indeed moving backwards before the foot strikes. What do you have to say about this
Optical illusion...nothing is actually going backwards
No your falling forward your center of gravity is moving you forward
Crazy the amount off bullshit there is on social media. Same thing in golf (my main sport)
it’s not a thing in cross country or a long distance. But yes, it is a thing in sprinting and there’s plenty of videos to show it. Your hand gestures and description does not accurately describe what’s happening with paw back. It’s not that your body is going forward and your foot is going backward.. your body AND low leg are going forward. The paw back of the lower leg is RELATIVE to the body, NOT the earth like you tried to ridiculously demonstrate with your hands. I’ve never seen such absurd interpretation of biomechanics, and I’ve never seen so many people just blindly agree with all the praising. What exactly are you praising? The fact that he’s consistently being a contrarian in almost every single one of his videos? Just silly now. 😂
Terrible video 😢. What's the point? None that you said made people go faster. What is the point? There is no gain.
Who would call a foot a paw? that's the most childish fucking thing i ever heard.
????? WHAT. RUNNING IS COMPLETELY A NATURAL ACTION OF REFLEXES. YOU ARE DOING FAR TOO MUCH THINKING. THE KENYANS DON’T DO ALL OF THIS TECHNICAL CALCULATING THEY JUST RUN.