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Wonder Woman's Magic Golden Bondage Girdle Of Submission | A Venus Girdle Retrospective
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- Опубліковано 23 чер 2022
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Wonder Woman has changed a lot over the years. Debuting in the golden age this DC Comics character has risen to be considered one of the Trinity at DC (the others being Batman and Superman). Aside from the lasso of truth this Amazon princess has many other items in her arsenal. One, which has long been discarded, was the Venus Girdle. A special item that forced prisoners into a docile mental state. This unique item was very tied to the creators of Wonder Woman and their lifestyles and philosophies. An update by Grant Morrison in Wonder Woman Earth One also provides a unique take on Charles Moulton's (William Moulton Martson's, and Joye Hummel's) device. Find out if you're ready to submit to loving authority with Wonder Woman, here on Casually Comics!
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Realistically, the girdle doesn't do anything. It's just that any man or woman tied up by Wonder Woman will willingly stay there.
why?
@@ProjektTaku For she is Wonder Woman 🦹🏻♀️
@@i.e.9538 so?
@@ProjektTaku ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Oh to be a supervillain who gets defeated by Wonder Woman tying me up and choking me out with her thighs
"Diana reached down and gave him a good honk."
EXCUSE ME?! Classic Morrison, having no chill. Can still surprise me honestly.
Fr
just grabbed him between the legs. I have very mixed feelings about it.
😆😆
Desira: "Please, take these golden girdles so that you may spread peace throughout your planet..."
Diana, breathing heavily: "...sure. 'Spread peace'... I'll get RIGHT on that..."
Fun fact: Golden Age Golden Lasso does not compel the truth, but explicitly mind controls! (though only if someone is holding the loose end)
It makes a weird comeback in the Lego games of all places LOL
Yeah, I'm definitely glad the silver age fixed that. Fits in with all the bondage crap they pulled in those days, but it doesn't really work well for the first superheroine to hit mainstream.
@@savagewolver8541 I think we have George Perez run to thank for the incorporation of truth, maybe due to the Lynda Carter series as well? Would need some more digging for sure, but the Silver Age sure as Tartarus didn't do away with the mind control.
SA is such a low point for Wondy that Kanigher fired the entire supporting cast he created and the Mod era was quickly ditched after feminism objection. That and shameless copy and pasting Marston's plots.
"No brats in Venus"
Ok, I will cancel my trip there.
As a hardcore fan of authenticity and mythology, I think that the themes of BDSM and lesbianism should be inherent to Amazonian culture and Wonder woman's personal beliefs from the start; but not necessarily dictate the themes and tones of any given story. I think that those traits of the Wonder Woman mythos would be a much more interesting way to show Wonder Woman as a fish out of water than just her being from ancient times.
You want Wonder Woman to be into BDSM because it’s authentic to her origins. I want Wonder Woman to be into BDSM because I want her to step on me. We are not the same.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 lol. dom Wondy is def something else. awakens something in you. but yeah wndy being into bdsm makes sense
Do you think wondy would be a full on Dom or more of a switch? I need to know if it could work between us... I mean, I ask for a friend.
@@Puerco-Potter In my headcanon, Diana’s a switch who prefers to top. Make of that what you will.
@@Puerco-Potter in my canon diana's a switch. Depends on who it is, but she's mostly a top on top type of gal.
I mean Geoff Johns kind of reskinned the girdle by way of the Indigo Tribe. The concept is pretty much the same but with even more brainwash-y vibes. It is certainly an interesting moral quandary to explore.
you can't really compare a ring of compassion with a girdle of submission: the indigo ring forces the wearer to feel compassion (something every member of the indigo tribe lacks because they are all killers and psychopaths) and doesn't BRAINWASH them but more so shows them exactly how their actions have affected others (though they stop caring without the ring: expect for indigo-1 who can actually feel compassion without it and actually prefers who she is with it than without). they do pretty much the same thing in this one power rangers comic where it's revealed that rita's prison was actually a high tech simulation chamber designed to make her live out the lives of the people who's she destroyed into order to feel compassion and repent for her actions. clearly it didn't stick,but neither does the indigo power when not being worn so it's basically the same concept and neither have anything to do with submitting to anyone of anything (regret is not submission: you don't have to be submissive to feel bad about something you did).
The girdle seems like the functional equivalent of the “Happy Happy Joy Joy” helmet from Ren and Stimpy.
And the little creatures of nature! They don't know that they're ugly!
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! Why didn't you believe me?!?!
Or the noodlesoother in the Sims 2. That thing killed my sim, he was happy then passed out of exhaustion from jumping, then whenever he recovered the helmet drained his energy, then he passed out, again and again till he died.
At least you willingly wear it
"One of the most stark contrasts with Wonder woman and her BDSM tones. Not undertones, they are just tones."
This is definitely a great way to describe her in these comic books.
This was such an incredible video and I really liked the amount of history involved with Wonder woman and the topic of bondage as a story element for her character. I love all of your amazing content from this channel, it helped me learn a lot about the greater scope of the comics universe. If you don't mind, I have a recommendation for a similarly strange Marvel video that I have been hoping for years that you would do a video on: the time Spider-Man beat Hobgoblin when he was super drunk. Please make a video on this if you can, the world NEEDS to know! I am not trying to be forceful or anything, but could you please try and consider it? I don't want to be a bother, so please tell me if this is too much.
imagine being so weak that spider-man can beat you drunk.
@@ProjektTaku To be fair, I am pretty sure the person who took up the mantle of Hobgoblin at that point was Jason Macendale, so it makes sense. For those who don't know, the first Hobgoblin was known as Roderick Kingsley, and he perfected a version of the Green Goblin serum that wouldn't make him insane, while still granting him the same abilities. Not counting Ned Leeds, who was a brainwashed innocent man who had no powers, the next Hobgoblin was Jason Macendale, a mercenary who was originally known as the Jack O'Lantern before taking the mantle of Hobgoblin for himself in order to get a better name in the criminal underworld. However, unlike Kingsley, he didn't have any powers aside from the gadgets, and he wasn't as hard to fight, so Jason allowed a demon to possess his body just so that he had enough strength to fight Spider-Man. Then later when the demon left his body, Jason had to rely on the serum that Kraven used in order to remain at least a partial threat.
In short, Jason is kind of pathetic to begin with, so it wouldn't be that bad for him to be beaten by Spider-Man, although probably none of the other Hobgoblin users would have been that weak. Additionally, the only reason that Spider-Man was drunk and won the fight was because Spider-Man messed with the glider when Hobgoblin wasn't looking, so he was sent flying away similar to what happened in Spider-Man 2002 with the Green Goblin's glider malfunctioning and flying him away. Honestly, the fact that this happened is still so hilarious to me, and I kind of want Sasha to review it and get some laughs from reading the issue.
@@gregoryo4417 oh, that makes sense. I thought it was a case where a drunk spidery was flailing around yet still humiliating hobgoblin, but this males more sense. But it does sound very wacky and funny.
@@ProjektTaku It definitely was pretty funny, since it wasn't just Spider-Man fighting Hobgoblin while drunk, it was also his interactions with others before and after that really sold me that this was a hidden treasure of the comics. I would recommend reading the actual issue if you want (Web of Spider-Man #38, just so you know the issue), and there is also a CBR web article about the book if you want to save some time. Regardless, it would still be pretty nice if Sasha was able to cover it, because I love to hear her opinion on these strange and fascinating issues with comic book lore.
@@gregoryo4417 cool. I'll check it out.
I read Wonder Woman #28 by itself, and I have to say, it was an experience. The mind controlling harnesses and overtones of "submission to loving authority" was so disturbing that I actually laughed while reading it 🤣. Golden age superheroes are scary!
And freaky 😏
@@error4159 True
Given the description of how the girdles work, really they shouldn't allow ordering a wearer to commit violence. Of course just making someone nonviolently obedient still offers ample opportunities for exploitation.
It's really hard to define violence without falling into loop holes and dystopia, although that makes good stories.
When it comes to moral ambiguity Wonder Woman's *always* been head & shoulders above Batman. He's never forced anyone to change their minds. He just delivers them to the consequences of their actions...
Except when DC makes him save the lives of villains instead of leaving them to their consequences. But I’m not salty, no…
@@tomorrow4eva so I take it you're for cops acting as executioners then? Eye for an eye doesn't solve anything. He gives them over to the authorities, he doesn't just beat them up.
If the authorities can't deal with terroristic mass murderers then isn't that a failing of their system? Also if he killed or mutilated his villains that would put him in the same category as them, hunted by freaks in capes & masks.
Well batman beating you to a pulp because you tried to robe some homeless guy out of 5 dollars can be considered consequence of your actions i guess
@@tomorrow4evaoh yes, louder for the people in the back! If Batman was all about Nolan-Bale's "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you either", it'd be a consistent Batman. But then after he learns, for example, that Jason Todd is back and is after Joker, Batman for some reason goes to stop Jason instead of having Joker be chased by consequences of his actions.
I do like it as a conditional mind control plot devise. Though as was mentioned the "loving authority" was often ignored.
I could imagine a seen where a supervillain trapped on the island describes their crimes to the Amazon's freeing themselves because the Amazon's wouldn't be able to love or forgive them.
Or a villain using one to control a hero that in a crazy way they love but eventually looses control because the hero loses the qualities the the villain loves about them when under their control.
It plays into the Wonder Woman idea that humanity is inherently good and worth forgiveness and love
Honestly, the Girdle isn't any more insidious than many forms of treatment or therapy used on criminals. In fact, compared to things like shock therapy, lobotomies or heavy drug treatment with things like lithium or narcotics, it's pretty humane.
The fact that it doesn't work on every criminal cold be viewed as a situation where those with a chemical imbalance affecting their behaviour can be reformed by the magnetic properties of it, rather than simply altering their thinking it's tweaking their brain chemistry in a non-invasive way, while having properties that render you docile and less likely to harm yourself or others.
For those that aren't 'helped' by the girdle, their malcie or evil is a conscious choice and therefore only the control and suppressive aspects that affect everyone would be seen which the comic seems to back up.
The kinks is very much there in the original appearances, and that's fine. The later iterations however seem to make it more of a tool of subjugation than one of rehabilitation, which seems more crude and far less interesting.
The other thing is the shift in the art from the much more pronounced sense of sensuality to the modern depictions of power and less emotional interactions. It would be interesting to see a more deliberate melding of the two.
I legitimately think they could do an interesting story with the Venus Girdle in the modern day.
Hear me out: what if the Girdle was re-contextualized as an ancient artifact hidden in a vault on Themyscira, capable of utterly removing an individual’s free will. It was originally created by Hippolyta and the Amazons as an alternative to warfare to make their enemies submit to them without violence, but she sealed it away in shame after realizing the horror of removing free will from another human being (which, to be fair, is a really fucked up concept when you think about it.)
Fast forward to the present day, where the Girdle has been stolen by a rogue Amazon who is tired of isolation from the world of man. She plans to use technology to amplify the Girdle’s magic and make the entire world subservient to the Amazons, out of a misguided belief that doing so will be for the betterment of everyone (since without free will, there would be no more war, poverty, violence, etc.). It’s up to Wonder Woman and her allies to stop her, and Wonder Woman can give a big speech about how free will isn’t inherently bad, and that everyone deserves to live life according to their own choices, or something.
It’s very much in line with Wonder Woman’s core beliefs of the inherent goodness of humanity and her desire for truth/honesty, but it’s also reflective of her Golden Age origins. Plus, it could actually be a much better representation of BDSM practices in the modern day. Loving and healthy dom/sub relationships are built on honesty and respect between both parties, after all - so in that way, the modern Wonder Woman can pay homage to those practices without being defined by them.
Except that would require them to paint the amazons in a negative light and they can't do that. DC is trying so incredibly hard to push the amazons as a perfect, idyllic society that has done no wrong.
@@Neutral_Tired It doesn’t have to be main continuity - if DC is so worried about tarnishing the Amazons’ image in the main universe, they can just make this story an AU and call it a day.
@@jeffwinkler1137 When the sequel to Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman bondage comic is written by Morrison's mini-me, Mark Millar, that's when you'll see the strap-on.
Cause you just gonna non violently throw war participants into a girdle 💀
@@Xavier_Diabolu Mark Miller is more Garth Ennis mini.
The Venus Girdle reminds me of the old Doc Savage pulp stories, where Doc would perform brain surgery on criminals to turn them into good citizens. It's an appealing fantasy -- that "evil" is just some kind of illness that can be easily "cured" -- but of course, the idea falls completely apart if you think about it at all. Never mind the civil rights implications. The difference between the Golden Age and Modern Age versions is that Marston deep down really believed in the themes he was putting forth, muddled as they might have been, while for Morrison it's just a thought experiment -- "Hey, let's take this weird notion to its logical conclusion and see how bad it could get" (Good observation on your part that Marston's storytelling instincts sometimes got in the way of his philosophizing).
There was one other Venus Girdle appearance in the Bronze Age, though it's probably not that relevant to the discussion. In JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #135, WW's old foe Queen Clea of Atlantis manages to put a Venus Girdle on Superman, and orders him to attack Wonder Woman. However, Diana points out that someone wearing a Venus Girdle will obey *any* command from *anyone*, so all she has to do is tell Superman to stop, and he does.
"The Venus Girdle reminds me of the old Doc Savage pulp stories"
Same thing popped into my head.
Venus Girdle wearer obeying orders from anyone being dominant do contrast nicely to the golden lasso's mind control, which requires someone come into contact with the loose end for it to work or the captured one won't be affected.
Yes, this seems to have been a popular line of thinking at the time. It was a "scientific" cure for crime. In the Justice League animated series the evil Justice Lords take the same path to emphasize how evil it is despite being superficially moral.
I would now like to read a Star Trek: Golden age Wonder Woman crossover. The Enterrpise falls through a space warp and finds itself by Venus in this alternate univrse. A planet of alien ladies in bondage? Captain Kirk would soon sort it out
Oh...he certainly would...
"No brats on Venus" fucking ended me
I may not be interested in every topic you choose, but I LOVE that you are the only channel I can find 90% of these topics on. Thank you for being original, creative, well informed/researched, and entertaining.
It is hardly surprising when you take into account William Moulton Marston , the creator of Suprema the Wonder Woman, aka Wonder Woman, was living in a polyamorous relationship with his wife, Elizabeth, and their shared lover Olive Byrne. William wanted to create a new type of superhero, who conquered by love and not just with their fists and his wife suggested it should be a woman. The character Wonder Woman very much epitomised his beliefs that women should be strong, liberated and ideological, just as his partners were. The bracers were modelled on those worn by Olive and since all of them were into BDSM, it featured heavily in the stories, hence the girdle, and why the lasso made Wonder Woman powerless, if she allowed a man to tie her up with it. Furthermore, he also invented an early polygraph, which is why the lasso forces people to tell the truth.
wow, cool.
There's an interview with Marston where he explains that the comics were literally meant as pro-social BDSM propaganda.
@@alexanderf8451 I know. It's amazing he got away with it in kids comics, even though there was no comic code back then.
its weird you think Casually Comics doesnt know this
@@baron7755 And when did I say she didn't? I only mentioned it because she didn't reference it in detail and some people are not aware.
*Lillie wears the Girdle of Venus*
Lillie: “This feel so good, Absolutely lovely…”
Yara Flor: “I had use that on her to stop stealing my golden garter again and again...”
You have stayed in character for years now.
Do you ever take a break?
@@captainlastreo5160 Determine what you mean?
It doesn't matter if you're into that kinda thing, if Diana ties you up, you're probably not gonna want to go anywhere
As someone with a love of Golden age Wonder Woman, Morrison's writing, and BDSM... I feel like the useage of the girdle is very problematic as a metaphor for submission. The sinister implications in Earth-one are pretty disturbibg especially given where the story ends up. However I feel like the Girdle can be modernised simply by actually learning from BDSM. And that way would be to emphasize and prioritize the concept of consensual, willing submission over coercerd or forced. One thing that both Morrison and Marston failed to do was use the girdle as an accurate metaphor for BDSM power dynamics. In real life power dynamics, the sub's consent is treated with the upmost respect, and the fact that these comics aren't showing that, is worrying. In the modern age, if you want to use the girdle as a BDSM metaphor you have to show it as something the wearer is giving informed consent to wear. At no point should the prisoner be forced to wear it.
Yeah but the girlie is problematic even if previously agreed because the wearer can't revoke consent at any point, there is no way to use it safely unless the "Dom" knows the wearer really well and won't overstep boundaries without realizing it.
Although, thinking about it, for example, superman experiences trauma and can't fight crime anymore, so he tells Lois Lane to put the girlie on him and command him to fight, superman being the sub here totally surrendering control to a person he knows he can't trust. Of course now days you can also insert a sex scene between the two and at the end having Clark telling her he wants to do it again without the girlie. That would be a good exploration of bdsm, but maybe too much for mainstream comics
@@Puerco-Potter true. But now im gonna have to write a fanfic for that exact scenario
But then it would be useless as a form of criminal reform, because what criminal is going to voluntarily submit to having their mind controlled?
Marston was the kind of man that C.S. Lewis described in his musings on the nature of "humanitarian" punishment. A man who believed himself so right in his actions, that anything could be justified in their pursuit.
The humanitarian will torment us without ceasing, because they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
the panel of dr psycho lamenting the loss of what it means to be a man now is very relevant and honestly speaks to me.
Thanks for taking on and comprehensively covering such a weird and knotty subject. I cannot think of any other comics podcaster/UA-camr who would do this with this level of sophistication , or even try.
Absolutely. So many would make the writers out to be disgusting perverts or just treat it all as a big joke. And while there's certainly some fun to be had with how blatant the BDSM themes are in some of these comics ("not undertones, just tones"), I love that Sasha approaches this in such an open, thoughtful and non-judgmental fashion.
I like the girdle as representative of a society that is fundamentally so different from our own that they can't be reconciled on a moral or even psychological level. Fictional cultures are really interesting when they're like that. However I don't think you can sustain that in a serialized mass market story. Organizing a society around "loving submission and dominance" is so different that the story can't help but be all about that.
Part of this is also what I call "The Wonder Woman Curse" which is that because she's so iconic as "the female superhero" she is forced to represent "women" as a class which just isn't possible. No one will ever let Wonder Woman be her own character for long. She is cursed to constant reinterpretation as the "perfect" exemplar of womanhood.
Fictional cultures are interesting for looking at ideas. If done well it can be an enjoyable way to think.
I agree that Wonder Woman cannot represent all women. But she’s still wonderful!
At 11 years old when I began to study Greek myths and their related history where the Amazons started of as a Romania tribe of herders and cattle drivers that follow the Griffin totem, their women screamed like eagles and had to kill four to six men from horse back before earning the right to marry. How many ways can you kill someone from horse back ?
a.) drag them to death with a .. lasso. " Lasso of Truth."
b.) ride by and kick them in the head.
c.) arrow
etc ..
Hippolyta was said to be the daughter of Aris god of war and part water nymph and the rest of the Amazons were said to be nature nymphs and half Olympians sent to an island to close a gate leading to the underworld of Tartarus, a gate on an island that drove men mad. You are dealing with a military religious monarchy society of women from over 4,000 years ago from the time before the founding of Sparta by Zeus son Hercules. Stuck in their own cultural development always training for the next gate breach from hell.
Then you have Diana/ Wonder Woman. Back in the 1980's I was learning the different human origin story myths that humans were made from the clay of the earth and not the dust.
Blood mixed into clay to call spirit guides and god protectors into one's home/ idols. Under lining subconscious symbolism .. coastal women use to do sea birth, and modern midwives and hospital are currently providing water tube birth to women now days.
Also the sea foam was what was said to give raise to the titan goddess Aphrodite, then factor into primordial sea which develop the first protein single cell organisms.
Hippolyta descended from a fresh spring water nymph and war mixing her " blood, " not blood cut from her hand but menstrual blood which said to hold power in Wicca/pagan witchcraft and mix into a clay baby idol is pleading to the gods for a baby of her own. Washed in the sea water which feeds life to coastal and island fisher women. Along with clay due to its many uses was said to be some special part of Gaia mother earth.
I place Diana Wonder Woman being a new titan of multiple elemental power.
Not that I am over reading into it, it follows all the classic pagan Greek motifs.
2.) Another thing which bothers me is Superman comics and how self center humans are in regards to the importance of earth. On one hand Kal'El/ Clark is a nice guy, but since the silver age Krypton was stated to be a by product of advance medical engineering/ genetic engineering, he was societally made to be a up beat easy going person, h3ll they beat the brain defeat that causes manic depression.
But Lois Lanes father for a close fifth teen to twenty years written as being a paranoid military high ranking officer, ( remind anyone of Zod ?)
Human paranoia and aggression with Krypton power is a bad mix.
As for science fiction although Superman leads way pass out right juvenile self-fulfillment power fantasy, help force fore ward our theories of space flight.
Starts with Kal'EL came to earth in a rocket during a time when we had no concept of computer flight control/ cause we had no electronic computer system then.
Follow with first out there ideal was Kryptonite came to earth caught in the rocket's drift trail which is known to happen on earth behind cars and trains, but later found that does not happen in space without a given amount of gravity to a comets mass.
So to have .. tons .. of Kryptonite following Superman's rocket crib, it had to be pull by some gravity drive worm hole wrapping effect.
Next, Donner's Superman movie with the Fortress of Solitude grow from a single crystal, it was done cause they though it would look cool, but how Could that Be Done ?
Years later, Star Trek DS9: Deep Space Nine, quantum torpedo drawing power from zero point energy dark matter, and self replicating anti-matter space mines. Then throw in some the Atom/ Antman micro black hole science jargon.
b.) Later DC comics development in Superman/Wonder Woman, the Phantom Zone is a form of sub/hyper space which Krypton use their gravity drive space probs to surf/travel through is also a path way on earth to the plane of the Greek god Hades. as being one part of the Ethereal realm.
In D&D, Kryptonains are psionic/sorcerers that are ethereal plane surfers drawing elemental power from the inner planes. The yellow sun energy wave frequency just sets off their cells like a quantum tuning folk. Although my main problem with Krypton being x8 gravity to earth, why don't depowered Kryptonains blood don't depressurize ? Even without solar power a Kryptonain looking like a 200lb human would evolved to weight in at 1,600lbs max pressing close to x4 their own body weight equaling to earths 6,400lbs and sprint at 80mph. Why do they leave that out of the comics ?
@@krispalermo8133NEEEEEEERRRRRDD
also thanks for the knowledge mate
@@jeanvictor8178 It has been close to 15 years since I been in an RPG shop and called that term of endearment.
Thank you very much.
I can imagine a modern take on the girdle was a good intention to stop strife but went too far in the end.
"It was the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works..."
The depth of knowledge in this--to be so expert in the golden age and how it relates--or doesn't--perhaps shouldn't sometimes--to more contemporary comics is truly valuable education to any who love the history of this art form and continue to root for it in the contemporary practice. I so value the knowledge I gain from this channel and the insights and thoughts into my own love for comics that it gives me. And that painting beside her is badass good. Like wicked cool and just maybe a masterpiece.
The Venus girdle is just a chastity belt for evil
what an interesting item.
people claim that men are abusive but have no problem with venusian women having access to mind controlling devices.
good to know.
I clicked into the video with skepticism but I actually think the Girdle is a really interesting tool for both story telling and societal commentary. Rather than it being something that pacifies evil, it could be something that strip people of their own moral will where we can address how change, in reality, takes time and effort and is really only possible if the subject is actually willing. It can also discuss the ethical consequences of imposing your own moral values on others and what truly constitutes as "good" and "bad".
There's a joke I've had for years that Golden Age Wonder Woman can be summed up with two words.
Those words? "Castle Anthrax".
Super interesting video!
I think the underlying problem with the girdle as a metaphor and as a narrative element is the mind control. The lack of consent makes it problematic as a metaphor for a Sub lifestyle (see how the BDSM community reacted to 50 Shades of Grey's depiction of it). As a narrative tool, it will inherently make anyone using it a villain, at least to my mind, and a far scarier one than most tyrants. C.S. Lewis had a line where he said "the worst kind of tyrant is the one who acts for the 'good of the people,' because that will allow him to justify any action he takes."
I think Morrison was on the right track, but doesn't really handle the material well. It's an exploration of taking the mechanics to it's logical conclusion, rather than exploring the themes involved.
I think an interesting story could be told using it. Perhaps with Wonder Woman having an arc where she begins to use the girdle, begins to go power mad, but then realizes the difference between willing submission to loving authority, and non-consensual dominating of another person. Could explore the themes of dominance and submission, the importance of consent, and the problem with just "making the bad people good." All of which would be very relevant to our current era.
the dramatic readings in this episode...chef's kiss
I would love a Wonder Woman run by Stjepan Šejić, even if he didn't do the art. Stjepan could probably emulate some of the Golden Age BDSM tones better than most.
Love every video of yours that I've watched, but this is my fave so far.
Have a great day 🙂
Given that it’s a girdle that comes from space, I have a feeling Granny Goodness somehow made it. I mean have you seen how the Female Furies dress? You know Granny has a few kinks of her own lol
Also really? There has never been a story where Wonder Woman used bridge support beams to tie up Giganta in a BDSM suggestive way? I feel like that would take care of two kinks at once lol
Now *that* would be an interesting concept. The technology for the girdles originating on Apocalypse, being fueled by the Anti-Life equation. They're actually disturbingly similar.
Awesome video!! I love how you explore how a comic's themes get re-interpreted in each era :)
As for the girdle question, I think the best way to bring it into today's Wonder Woman comics would be to treat it like another brain-altering tool we use to make extreme personalities submit to loving authority: Anti-Depressants.
This way, we can keep the narrative elements from the golden age such as it works by changing the chemicals in your body-brain, the sometimes-sudden mood changes when the girdle comes off, and it being lauded as a non-violent way to reform dangerous criminals.
Meanwhile, you can also explore the more complex themes, such a fear of being too dependent on the girdle, and how the girdle won't magically "fix" you - you may no longer want to destroy Wonder Woman, but the girdle won't help you sort through the trauma in your life that made you hate her in the first place - causing you both to miss a valuable opportunity to make yourselves better people.
Your insights are on point again
I allways thought transformation island could be like wonder womn's arkham asylum
I would absolutely play that game...
@@Vox-Multis they are actuall making a wonder woman game and it's using the same engine as shadow of mordor
18:55 I have very mixed feelings about this.
Great video, Sasha...👍
It must be pretty uncomfortable wearing a big metal girder all the time, sleeping, showering, what if you get an itch?
It's magnetic gold...duh. It's super therapeutic like those copper knee sleeves...only much, much better.
I wonder how well The Girdle would work on super-will Green Lantern Hal Jordan since he is the embodiment of will. Knowing Hal, he would trip on a rock and the ring would come off and Wonder Woman would get the ring and encircle the world with The Girdle.
It is yellow…
A regular ass ww villain removed it cause her will bro. So he can if he gets past his mental color block
Let's be honest they could reintroduce the BDSM elements and make them more subtle and no one would complain about it. Hell her fan base would undoubtedly increase lol.
In Current Day, there's no such thing as "subtle" when it comes to storytelling.
There’s no subtlety today; I honestly hate it.
Instead of Cyborg saying he’s half robot as symbolism, he’d scream he’s half black.
Really impacts storytelling negatively.
@@cunnyman well but you can blame all those kids that grew up never catching the subtle messages, I am pretty sure there are a lot of bigots that love the X-Men what should be an oximoron, if the subtlety was more advert they would have "acceptance" written on their uniforms. So writers kinda gave up and started just telling the stuff openly.
@@danielseelye6005 subtelty was dead since 80s, but even that didn't stop flying over the head.
Wow, I remember reading these original comics as a kid. My best friend's older brother had huge boxes filled with comics. I was careful so he let me read them. WW from the forties WAS some strange stuff to read as a kid. The Spectre from that time was some horrific stuff with nightmare fuel that STILL creeps me out 50 years later.
I'd like to see Sasha take on Golden age Spectre comics.
Great Insight!
I always love the celebrity likenesses of characters in the golden age. Eviless is definitely showing some mad Bette Davis energy.
Love those COMIC CAVALCADE covers. Fun times with Diana, Alan, and Jay.
If you take a shot every time you hear the word "girdle", you'll die.
How Grant Morrison's Earth One turned out is interesting, considering that one of the main things I remember from the book Supergods (which was published long before the Earth One series) are Morrison's criticisms of post-Marston Wonder Woman comics. IIRC, Morrison argued that no one after Marston ever made WW comics as interesting, because no one else could really replicate the way the original comics were fundamentally infused with Marston's beliefs on BDSM and gender dynamics.
Almost all BDSM fantasy fiction has problematic and abusive elements (Venus in Furs etc) including the girdle in these comics. It can work, but a writer has to be real careful. That someone can resist the girdle if they want to is a start. It also needs to go with actual reformation, like therapy (without a "mistress", of course.)
Yes, please give us your very serious analysis of the 24 part "Ice Planet Barbarians" series.
Looking at you FIFTY SHADE series
@@SuperEasywalker Oh yeah, definitally that one and it's clones. (Though I do get why the community dislikes it.)
This is absolutely ridiculous thank you so much for bringing this to light.
I can see why Wonder Woman was changed after the comics code was started🤨.
If this where SpongeBob's writers got the idea for the Man Ray's Tickle Belt?
This was a really fun episode. I would love to hear you talk more about Wonder Woman Earth 1.
If it were to become a regularly occurring item, then I think the two directions would be: used as a reformation tool while keeping the og rule of the girdle only functioning when the user consents (😳) to it, or having it be explicitly labeled as brainwashing and therefor an item exploited by the amazonians like it was in the newer series. It’s definitely super menacing, even with the “fluff” the OG writer tried to put around it
Edit: also just a thought, I’m interested in seeing one of the girdles used on someone who isn’t violent. Like do they just stand there in a “yeah, ok..?” Moment?? Lmao
Or just have the belt physically control them as prisoners but not actually change them, while the island activity is what is ment to rehabilitates them. They are prisoners so they can't consent to be imprisoned but it shouldn't force people to think good thoughts. If the Amazon's actually had to love the prisoners to have authority over them to keep control that would keep the threat of abuse down except for interesting edge cases where the controller had a warped understanding of love like Harley Quinn.
Winged Mermaid Sharks taking over Paradise Island u say...🤔 here for it lol
Boy howdy, when I was looking at my phone I heard "see the prisoner getting the girdle off somehow" a little differently and almost dropped my phone.
Hippolyta's attitude towards the girdles in Earth One is almost exactly the same as Eviless's in the original stories.
Mermaid Sharks without lazers. Hmmm.
They're Mermaid Fairy Sharks! Still lacking the lasers...! HER EXPERIMENT WAS INTERRUPTED TOO SOON!!!
love your work! thank you !!
In the Golden Age it was (mostly) called "Transformation Island" and in the Siver Age it was (mostly) known as "Reform Island". Regardless, it's the same place. I prefer the name "Reform Island" more because it more aptly describes what the island is for. Yes, it's a "prison", but its function is to reform the inmates so they can be good citizens.
I never knew that Morrison's Earth-One Wonder Woman was so extremist and "intense." That's really wild. Another addition to my alternate WW pile of books to be read.
I LOVED Superman Earth-One. I'm actually writing my own version of a volume 4 of it.
@@ProjektTaku That sounds neat. Just do it, keep it up. I appreciate your commitment.
@@norbertfranz2702 thanks. I'm working hard on it and appreciate your support!
As usual, nice "vocalizing" the dialogue. As well as the critique, of course....And "Doctor Psycho"? Hilarious!
Wait, is Doctor Psycho not his real name? With names like "Eviless" and "Desira", I figured it was just par for the course.
I think that a large part of the difference between golden age WW and current with regard to BDSM may be the difference between philosophy and kink. There seems to be a big difference between submitting to 'loving authority and uh, merely being forced to submit to someone who has power over you. To me, some of these things are what WW should be about: presenting 'good people should get bad people to submit to loving authority as a foil to Batman's 'criminals should fear to do crime' and Superman's 'good men should defend the innocent'.
Yeah, but they take Diana over the edge whenever they try this and she ends up like a Christian authoritarian Karen with superpowers.
@@Puerco-Potter Couldn't resist sticking the *'Christian'* label in there could you?
@@ericbrower611 I didn't even try to resist it 🖤
Would the girdle work on the Joker or any Arkham inmates or Blackgate prisoners? 🤔 I want to read that fanfic.
Batman, joker, and the girdle, there is so much potential lol
i think it's a creepy thing to think about and gose agents freedom of thought. i want to see a story where the belt is the villain.
Great insight, great channel!
That last earth one is just messed up ? Like wow abit injustice level I guess
Wonder Woman being female Darkseid is the best description I’ve heard.
Surreal. Thanks for the video!
I think it was Doc Savage, around the same time as Golden Age Wonder Woman, who would give their defeated enemies brain surgery to "cure" them of their criminal inclinations.
If memory serves, Mala was the Amazon who almost defeated Diana to become Wonder Woman, making her the second most powerful Amazon. She failed the Bullets and Bracelets game when she got shot in the arm.
Obviously it's trying to say "Step on me mommy Diana with your battle heels!"
Talking of "rehabilitation", Doc Savage used to carry out brain surgery on his captive villains; "reforming" them, and releasing them to be useful members of society. All without permission from his "patients" or oversight from the authorities.
9:03 "I am Giganta, formerly a female gorilla!" "I am Hypnota, Magician of the Blue Ray" (no mention of her stylish facial hair). Wonder Woman certainly had some cool antagonists.
"Good --not a sissy in the lot--this is what I call Villainy Incorporated!" What were these writers on back then? 😆
@@hope-cat4894 😆 That past really is a strange place to visit.
Excellent application of your vocal acting TALENTS ❤❣️ Batman has been
accused of being paranoid in the refusal to “BREED”with “Wonder Woman”.
Could you expound on this, PLEASE?
DC should bring back the Flying Shark Mermaids
6:30 yeah this venus lady sounds like a villian to me also compare the girdle to the ""compassion" lantern rings
Damn! I got some kinky Wonder Woman comics to read in the near future.
I was always kinda intimidated by girdles by there psychological affect. Now that they've been weaponized in fiction I'm sure no one is safe
Lets just force Zaddy vibes on an entire populace o.o
Is it bad when I heard the key and redemption it reminded me of the tickle belt in SpongeBob..
I figured out it’s inspiration…
Mind controlling villains is an interesting concept and it's one I've considered using while writing. That being said the morality of it is hard to overlook. Since criminals can be reformed I would only use the girdle if the person was truly irredeemable, like a Nazi.
The worldview underlying this is so fascinating. It's kind of like the Christian concept of loving mutual submission, or the Muslim concept of submission to God, but framed through a more modern or more monarchical understanding of the word "submission" in which submitting entails a giving up of agency or an imposition of control.
It seems very self-contradictory - after all, if submitting to loving authority is what makes you a good person, but exercising loving authority means imposing your will on those who submit, then doesn't that preclude the authority figure from submitting, and thus make whoever's in charge (in this case, Wonder Woman) automatically a bad person?
It's this kind of Comic opportunity you just ROCK at. Like those 2 Artemis books and Power Girl's golden globes. By the way, many 1970s Marxists were very much into the benign golden magnet girdle brainwashing thing. Stalin. But Groovy! Can you feeel me?
20:57 Hmm like to see Wonder Tyrant try! Several peoples have the will to resist any Tyrant, who the tyrant is makes no difference.
Honestly if anyone was to do a great mashup of the two I would argue Morrison would be one of the few writers who could handle it. That's where he lives as a writer. Which I can personally find hit or miss as a reader but usually interesting. I think the problem is he has this tendency to slide towards screaming METAPHOR!!!!! at his audiences rather than reigning in his own authorial intent into something a touch more subtle.
I can think of a few others who could do something really interesting with the idea (a Gillen McKelvie team up based on Golden age Paradise Island would be amazing) but I'm not sure I could just enjoy any complex reimagining.
Anyone writing golden age Wonder Woman is in essence writing fanfiction, more so than most comicbook characters. You end up trapped looking at a revamped Wonder Woman and wondering about the artists' views on the golden age, on the inherent kink and since we're talking about commercial fanfic, the whims of the editors and financial considerations.
But if we were to skip the mashup and go full Batman '66 with the concept I might be happier about the end results. Less trying to contemplate the various social forces and artistic visions and just have fun with why golden age was great. Ignore context and commentary and just try to embrace the fanfic nature of the premise to give us a comic that can only be told about Wonder Woman and by DC.
I really wanted to see a video about the winged shark 🦈 evil women... like tomorrow .... LOL
Still really want to see that video 😀
P. S. I Love your videos, they make my day happy
You could use the girdle in modern times and lose a bunch of the ick factor by having it act somewhat like the Penance Stare for Ghost Rider, though instead of making you feel the pain you caused someone it makes sure your empathetic centers of your brain are working and then shows what you did to those people and then what happened to them.
May need to be made into a new item though.
Love Golden Age WonderWoman - I’ll need to check out the Earth 0ne series now
Ypu should do a video about Wonder Woman (1942) #73 ''Mystery of the missing moon'' where Wonder Woman discovers the Multiverse before Barry Allen.
My "Story Of O" sense is tingling!!
I hope one day you can do an episode about Egg Fu! (one of WW most bizarre foes and a perfect illustration of how comics approach to racial archetypes has changed over the years)
Wow this was perfect timing. I just finished reading the entire Wonder Woman: Earth One series and was looking for videos on the subject haha.
Totally with you on this series going a wildly different direction by the end. Diana in volume 1 is absolutely not the Diana in volume 3. In volume 1 Diana acknowledges the faults of man’s world, but also sees the flaws in her own culture, pushing back on the fat-phobic comments her people make about Candy. I assumed by volume 3 Paradise Island would have become a synthesis of these 2 cultures, taking the healthy parts of both and meshing them together, but instead Diana embraces her people’s superiority and conquerors the world. I was expecting the people of Venus to be the ones trying to dominate the world not Wonder Woman!
To be fair I'd easily submit to an amazon.
Anyone else think it’s weird they made Steve Trevor black in the series where Diana enslaves men?
I don't want to even know what kind of fanfic this could and has spawned.
I guess I agree with Morrison. Wonder Woman is a tricky, often rather contradictory character at the best of times. The best way of honoring the original concept is probably to embrace how self-important it is at heart and accept the consequences.
Frankly, I love that the stories provide fuel for discussions of philosophy over such an important concept. Free will, influence, and mind control are worth being explored. I suspect it is a reason Wonder Woman was successful as a comic when it started.
These kinds of elements are why I enjoyed the Wonder Woman Earth 1 story. It is so strange to see kink turned into tools of gods and aliens.