Themyscira is a woman-only "paradise" where women resolve differences through bondage and discipline. Just as William Marston intended. They have a very strict border policy. But Tom King would never let the character's history stand in the way of his mindless political pontificating.
So the original WW movie from a few years ago was hard to make??? Looks to be pretty successful to me which is why they made a sequel. The quality is the question regardless of any film.
George Perez will never get enough recognition. Not only he revived the popularity of Wonder Woman with his reboot and established a new complex lore that would surround our gorgeous Amazon to this day, but also created, along with Marv Wolfman, the most iconic and transcendental incarnation of the Teen Titans and the first major Crisis that changed DC forever. R.I.P. Master
He seemed like a mega-defender of the character, both writing & drawing her and openly criticizing her company for not highlighting her 50th anniversary.
I read a novel once which had as one of its core premises that Wonder Woman (she was called "Princess Powerful" in the book) was a character so trivial, so devoid of actual characteristics, that it made no difference who wrote her or what personality she displayed. This was seemingly in explicit response to Perez's relaunch of Wonder Woman. I thought it was a strikingly myopic claim, and one of the worst possible examples to use.
He really got Diana as a personality. I have never been happy about his erasure of the Themyscirans' scientific progress across their thousands of years of peace (they were isolated, but they had magical scrying to even that out). There are a ton of ideas left to be explored about what the society of Paradise Island valued enough to study and build upon scientifically versus what they preferred to keep of their ancient ways of living. Having them as spear-wielding warrior-women who haven't changed throughout history was a really bad move, and one that wrecked Wonder Woman's approach to everything. So many writers after Perez got hung up on the "oh, she's a warrior now!" idea. Perez threaded the needle and kept the thing about Diana that makes her really different from the other heroes: Wonder Woman sees the world as wonderful, and seeks to engage with its wonders and show them to all the people she meets. She's a philosophical optimist, and somehow few writers beyond Perez seem to have grasped that.
I think King saying that Batman fights for the law is reductive, and is likely why it turns people away from his take on Batman. Batman fights to save lives. Sometimes the Venn diagram of the law and that goal overlap and sometimes it doesn't
Yeah. We always say that "Batman is waging a war against crime and criminals," but that's not really the case. If the government outlawed eating fish, Batman wouldn't start beating up people who eat fish. If the government legalized murder, Batman wouldn't stop beating up murderers. He says he's against "crime," but he's using that term more to mean "victimization."
Eh, I gave that bit of narration a pass since it's implied that the narrator of the issue is the big bad, so it's understandable that his perception would be a bit skewed. Like the people who say that Tarantino doesn't get Superman because of that one monologue from Kill Bill 2, except that monologue is from the perspective of a sociopathic mass murderer who clearly thinks that people like him are above humanity (and is also proven wrong).
Art is beautiful in this book. But it’s a “message first” story to me. The characters are just props to deliver whatever the writer wants to lecture the reader about. Also, this felt like Steel’s book. Not Diana’s. He was the focus and it was HIS struggle. Diana felt like a supporting character in her own book. I feel this deep dive into who Strel is could have come later after the story and Diana’s place within the story were more established
I've noticed that Amanda Waller is a perfect foil for DC's big three. The Suicide Squad, Cadmus and Amanda's hardline nature is a very good contrast against Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman.
Thank you so much for adressing the usa-centrism when it comes to Wonder Woman. I understand why it was originally there given the era and place she was created but I genuinely don't know why so many authors still tie her so much to it. Batman and Superman operating primarily within the usa makes sense given that they are american citizens and also each have their "own" defining cities. But Diana has no Gotham or Metropolis (which is also imo why her rouges gallery feels lacking. Batman villains are iconic because they are so tied to the setting) nor does she have any reason to be in the usa full time. If dc writers can write whole stories set in space, they should be able to write about Diana operating internationally.
That could easily be the foundation of the character. It's still an American story and IP, but WW could represent absurdities like USA taxing citizens across the globe as a form of bondage (pun intended, and PUN INTENDED, not sex-play) of their citizens, who also function as a good excuse to invade countries that allegedly have US civilian hostages. US special agents getting disappeared by CIA need not apply. Wonder woman could be the spirit of this kind of universalist Americanism, the claim on "Western" culture despite abandoning most of the Greco-Roman infuence except on surface level, and having more in common with post-Abrahamic culture, like Mormonism reflects on christianity the same way fundamentalist reform reflects on 2 Billion muslims in the world. I would genuinely transform her into clay in an event comic, as a commentary on US racialism over skin color. These writers CANNOT handle topics like US expansionism that appropriation of Byzantine myth INHERENTLY implies, and compels to take a clear side on the side of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But, her criticism of things like circumcision, is blocked for other reasons than lack of maturity, in "western comics" industry. It's mature and quite deliberate. Ridiculous subractions like "Batman is about the law" is the level of maturity we're dealing with, reminds me of the recent blind honking of applause done by the geese in Canada.
You wouldn't even have to go into space. An artificial island anchored in international waters, underwater or a city in the Arctic/Antarctic would do. When it comes to the oceans I'm sure Wonder Woman could come to an agreement with Aquaman. Register it with the UN and the Amazons could have their own country.
@@ravenwilder4099 I think that if someone is to be a professional writer for a big company then they ought to be able to do some research on how the everyday life in other countries is? And it's honestly not something that you really need to give a huge focus on: have a story where WW has to spend some time fighting a villain in one country, focus on the action, and then have her fight someone else somewhere else. And if they want her base of operations to be in the usa then at least give her a distinct setting like most other heroes.
@@nikoletta3855 People have tried to give Diana a distinct setting, it's just that once a new creative team takes over, they have a tendency to ignore everything the previous creative team did, so none of those distinct settings lasts for very long.
Ah, that's nothing new. There are plenty of people who have said, "Give me a sign" and the sign came to them in some form or another. If what he said is true, that's probably all it was to him.
Thank you! And I think he could’ve even spun in away where he could have said something like “I was inspired by George’s words and I wanted to see if we could reach the watermark set by him!” Making it more about the work of those who came before and the words of them rather be than me me me! He was challenging ME calling ME a coward laughing at ME, you’re literally projecting your feelings on the words of a dying man who was talking about his own life accomplishments!!!!!! Edit: Spelling
@@akkakkakekkn Tom King CAN be a great writer* it mainly comes down to if he has to deal with an established canon or characterization of a character then he kinda falls apart a little bit, I feel like Tom King would be a great AUTHOR, not so much a COMIC BOOK WRITER, because when it comes to standalone character pieces and standalone stories I feel like he can do that well. But comic books are almost never standalone, and the things he struggles with the most are found most often in this particular medium of comics… Except maybe TV? Now that most shows are episodic in nature to some degree… But outside of those I think it has proven to have some writing chops but not all writing is equal and not all writers are good at all writing equally… that’s a rare talent to have! 😊 Edit: grammar
I've read most of Wonder Woman - and by that I mean everything from 1941 to present day. And I have read contemporaneous issues since 1978. So, I am well acquainted with all the reboots and reimagining and direction changes over the years. For me, this actually feels clumsy, like the change of Wonder Woman to her kung fu era in an attempt to make her more contemporary and more feminist. Wonder Woman is a very strong character, and she always reverts to her basic core character despite efforts to make her a God or a fast food clerk or what have you. Having Wondy versus the US government is ok, but it does feel a lot like a couple of guys going "What if she really kicked ass? Like totally kicked ass?"
For me, the Lasso of Truth is a double-edged sword. Truth can be freeing, and also extremely painful. The idea of having a "Lasso of Lies" is just, IMO, silly, as it doesn't really MEAN anything. Just as the real reason, IMO, that Diana doesn't have an "archenemy" the way Superman and Batman do, is twofold. One, back in the early days, exemplified by Paul Von Gunther, and Transformation Island, she truly believed in reforming her foes. And two, she has been hard to define by her creative teams, and even her fans, making someone who would be the antithesis of who she is hard to create, since that has yet to be fully fleshed out.
Every time one of these modern writers use the word "relatable" I already get worried. "Relatable to whom", because I usually find it hard to relate to these new takes on characters, even when I could in the past. Also, DC heroes are supposed to be, at least to me, aspirational, something we strive to be. They represent the best of humanity to the point that their civilian identities are also about helping others, even the rich dudes like Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen. I don't want to relate to DC heroes, I want to be like them despite not being a crimefighter, having superpowers, or wearing a colorful outfit. They aren't supposed to be like us; that's Marvel's deal. We are supposed to be more like them.
He's doing it for his kid, yet then he's writing something clearly in his wheelhouse because he once worked for the government. So instead of writing something for his little girl and younger readers. He's writting JUST for himself and making excuses.
It bugs me when people say WW doesn't have a rogues gallery. It's only because she hasn't had as much exposure outside of the comics. All the big JLers have had TV shows and cartoons. She hasn't. But I do think her archenemy is and always will be Cheetah. Part of the appeal of Wonder Woman is seeing her relationships with other women, many of whom are antagonists. You don't see that anywhere else in a major, ongoing superhero comic book.
I know cheetah doesn't want to be saved but everytime I see her that's all I want. Veronica Cale can be the big villain for a while. Give me Barbara for like three issues.
I always love how you make space for your viewers to form their own opinions, and the care with which you explore all sides of an issue fairly. I wish comic book writers could do the same. I would be interested in you dipping back into King's run after a year or so and telling us how you feel at that point.
I agree that Sasha is wonderful in how she approaches these potentially divisive subjects, but I wouldn't want writers generally trying to explore all sides fairly. Yes, empathy is an important tool for writers and seeing multiple characters' perspectives, but not trying to see all sides of a creative issue like "What makes a good Wonder Woman story?". Ultimately, good writing comes from a writer following their own muse and their own inspiration, and no great story is accepted by everyone.
indecisiveness in a story can easily stem from trying to explore all sides fairly. Most great stories come from an author exploring their own side of the story instead of trying to please everyone.
@@ProjektTakuobviously. Well said. If you get upset that a piece of art isn’t covering “your side” then you really need to stop being so fragile and narcissistic.
I think writers like Greg Rucka, George Perez, Gail Simone, and Phil Jimenez have really written her well as a compassionate ambassador of peace who is also a fierce warrior when her hand is forced. This juxtaposition is why I love their runs and how well-balanced her warrior and pacifist sides can be. This can be ruined quickly when fans and writers take out-of-context rare moments where Diana’s morality was pushed to the limits and pretend Diana is a vicious gladiator that seldom negotiates peace. WW #1 by Tom King had an interesting start that embraced her lore that I’m ready to see more of. PS, Casually Comics, I’d love for you to do a solo video on KSD’s Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons! ❤️
@@garycannon4644try reading what they said again. WW isn’t the warrior with sword and shield. She’s peaceful. It’s okay to change things, but when I read anything WW as a kid, she never had a sword and shield. She was peace and love.
@@Akkbar21 Wonder Woman hates killing in the past,since Max Lord incident back in the 2000's she was portrayed more and more like a bloodthirst and vicious warrior until Rebirth undone this. This book is awfful. King just cannot write a true super-hero book without your Cynical Dark and Edge desconstruction of DC classic characters.
@@EvandroACruz Diana was only portrayed as bloodthirsty in a few elseworlds and the New 52 Justice League. In her own book, she was reasonable and level headed. And I'm not seeing any deconstruction in this book.
Verisimilitude is a very helpful word for comic discussion. Helps criticize the world cohesion without necessarily throwing away the fantastical elements in it.
That is an excellent point. It was exactly this that immediately took me out of this. The laughably bad setup that went from 0-100. I am a huge espionage story fan and this is as clever and subtle as an anvil. The narrative to describe Wonder Woman was a 10 on the Tom King pretensiousness scale. If you don't buy into his ludicrious plot and world building then it is far too easy to pull the threads and unravel everything. Typical Tom King. Another good artist wasted on a bad story.
I watched Thinking Critical's rant. I then watched Blerd's video, where he basically gave the finger to half of the audience. I would like to say, I truly appreciate your middle ground approach to covering this comic. You do great work.
that guy is really odd. he seems like he's just dying to go full comicsgate at any moment. and thats from just watching a few minutes after reading this comment. TC is creepy aggrieved comic dude adjacent at best.
@@shawnboahene5231 But that's also the role of a critic. Sasha spends time in her essays like this clearly holding an opinion, yet trying to shape to meet both advocates and detractors of the work. I'll contrast with Roger Ebert -- one of the reasons I liked his reviews is that he tried to meet the material where it was coming from, and also tried to not apply too many of his internal biases, but usually landed firmly on an approach. And he wrote books about where, over the course of years, he'd re-assessed movies and come to a different conclusion. Or how he listened and changed on if video games could be art, somewhat. Him grappling with his opinions on a work openly and honestly help me better understand what I want from a work, than trying to do an A/B approach.
Wonder Woman ain’t complicated. I might actually start a channel and make a video about this because it matters to me that much. George Perez understood it better than most. She’s an ambassador of peace. She’ll fight if needed, but she would rather connect with people. We need to ditch the Roman gladiator armor look which implies she came looking for a fight and go back to the suit that was given to her to wear as an olive branch to man’s world.
I would hardly call a swimsuit based on a single country's flag to be an "olive branch to the world". Especially when said flag isn't even the one of her country.
@@cui8789 The original reason she wore it was because it represented the free world. An olive branch to that she’s here as an ally. Plus, America is not the only country with red white and blue on it. It’s just the most prominent one on the global stage.
@@ivansobubblehead it wasn’t Roman battle armor. It is armor, but the Roman gladiator look is different in message than what she wore before which looked more like a costume designed to convey ideals. Much like how even though captain America also wears armor, it’s primary goal is to express what he stands for
The good things about this comic (aside from the artwork) are Sarge Steel doing something, Diana not surrendering to the military and doing her throwing the tiara thing from pre-Crisis as well as talking to Steve Trevor and resuming her identity as Diana Prince, and the appearance of the Sovereign.
I appreciate seeing Diana use the tiara boomerang prominently. And I get trying to make a relic that's a dark counterpart to the lasso, but the execution just makes it come off as meh to me. Like something that won't get a lot of play once King leaves.
As a South American King's run already lost me. The man has always had stories that draw on his experience from his CIA days, and those can be really good (character's acting "out of character" aside), but his decision to give Wonder Woman, a hero who has fought gods all around the world, a a US-centric story is, I believe, totally missing the mark about what makes the character work. To me, it'd feel like making a Fantastic Four comic in which the family stays in New York the entire time. I hope this is just his first arc and he opens his horizons as he goes along. That said, the fight scene narration was horrible, and, like you said, I hope this is either addressed directly, or it'll just show how little King understands of the character. Never want anything to fail, least of all a character that needs an iconic run, but I don't really have my hopes up.
No you are actual clown. Wonder woman whole thing is US centric. She functioned as world war 2 propaganda nazies. She should be fighting the government
So to start things off positively, I think the art is absolutely gorgeous. It looks amazing and has some great action to it and the mystery of who the Blonde Amazon is and why she's going on this killing spree. Now onto the gripes. While I do enjoy King's work, the first issue is as subtle as Artemis trying to smuggle Mistress into an airplane. It feels like I've read this type of story before from various other writers in the Big Two and the indies scene. On top of it, it seems like things escalated way too fast, and would have been better if Diana was in a race against time to find the Mystery Amazon, or else the US government would make its move due to growing tensions. It might just also be the fact that I've heard a lot of what King is trying to say on a daily basis and would rather have the series be Diana go on this grad Odyssey of an adventure interacting with creatures, gods, and heroes from mythology. I'll give it my usual 3 issue try but at the moment the 1st Issue didn't grab me.
That would have been so much better, getting 'this' story like 6 issues in. My biggest point of confusion was just how many amazonians are just living in the US. They said the taskforce killed or deported over 300, but earlier it was stated the vast majority of amazonians had already left. Now paradise island never looks massive to me so it sure feels like thousands and thousands of amazonians just living on US soil should be its own story in the first palce.
@@MisterKetch that actually raises a good point cause that’s only looking at the US rather than the world as a whole. As 2nd gen American myself it also adds some questions to why there are so many Amazons in the US. If it was in the thousands then it might mean something is up at home which is causing them to immigrate. It would be a very interesting story to see why they’re leaving paradise island to set roots in a different area.
@@matthewlloyd5130 That's some valuable context. My thinking was silver tongue being associated with lying, but of course there's a silver lasso, haha Thanks for the info all the same.
Diana has basically suffered from Reboot syndrome, While Clark and Bruce tend to keep stuff, Diana tends to almost start fresh from every reboot/rebrand. The recurring joke that every new Wonder Woman Writer wants to be the definitive Wonder Woman Writer or they only took the book to kill time or if you're John Byrne, used Diana as an excuse to write about the New Gods aka the book he wanted to do.
Thank you for your insights, Sasha. I don't care for the story you described so I won't be too worried about collecting it. Maybe down the road, sometime, maybe not. Sampere's art is quite eye-catching, though I think he makes certain characters' heads too small, including WW's. (I voiced this opinion on X/Twitter last week, and was pleased to learn that I wasn't the only one to feel this way.) To me, Wonder Woman is a fantasy (NOT mythology, or rather, not JUST mythology) character, and that's how creators need to treat her: unleashed, wild imagination. Purple healing rays, invisible jets, giant kangas, telepathic radios, and the like. Yes, her "cause," her "agenda," is about "real" things like peace, equality (or equity), and human rights, and those are the things she fights for, but I feel a lack of imagination has been plaguing her and her section of the DCU for quite a while now. For years, the DC/Marston Amazons were a peaceful, positive society where they would engage in battle only if necessary. Those Amazons would never "Attack." They had evolved over the centuries they had lived on their island. These warrior women could still "take care of business," but always preferred peace. They became so advanced that the firearms of Man's World were merely playthings to be used in their game of Bullets and Bracelets. Those are the Amazons I want to read about. That's the Wonder Woman I want to see.
I'm so glad someone understands how the Amazons are supposed to be. I feel like writers have relied too much on the warrior aspect of the Amazons forgetting that Themyscira was the Isle of Paradise, a place of peace for women who had been harmed. It would be so nice to see writers rely on the more community aspect of them rather than the battle ready aspects
I will say I like the art in this, and particularly Wonder Woman's design. She looks less cheesecake and more like this was a choice of some kind. Something vaguely practical, even though it really isn't. It's interesting.
I like the fact that superman is now the lone trinity member with an impractical design due to batman and WW's armor looks. Although I do kinda miss her classic design.
@@mehlessmidori602 fair, I guess it would make sense Superman needs armor so that it can withstand whatever hits him, I just don't like injustices bulky approach. If you toned it down it'd be a pretty fantastic superman redesign, much better than the new 52's.
It took a lot of work to fix Wally West after Tom King. I will be sitting this one out until they pull the plug and lure a Rucka level Titan in to rehabilitate Diana after King leaves her in tatters.
It’s also a misnomer that Themyscira was predominantly a warrior culture. They are warriors but not a warrior culture. Thor comes from a warrior culture. The Amazonian people are scientists, artists, athletes, etc. They’re culture is defined by self improvement and being the best version of yourself, not fighting.
8:08 The Cloonrad run of Wonder Woman was initially interesting because of Diana meeting Norse gods until she decided to return to Earth to live her life, deal with forgotten Golden and Silver Age adventures (i.e. Milk Company for Golden Age and Image Maker for Silver Age), Trial of the Amazons and Revenge of the Gods being a thing, and ending with Diana in a sleep coma in the 800th issue and her waking up to continue to be active as a superhero. Also, her meeting Yara Flor twice and barely interacting with her family.
All I'll say on the matter is that to me, Diana operates in a similar space to Percy Jackson, but probably an inverse - someone who lives in the world of gods and monsters, where the myths and legends is very much a reality to her rather than a historical curiosity, but the 21st century is the weird world, and trying to balance that. Also, balancing the roles as a princess and ambassador, and someone who's fundamentally from and representative of a bronze Age warrior culture.
9:50 Leaving aside what people think about Kanigher's stories about Wonder Woman, he had a fundamental role in DC's story, as he was the man behind the creation of very iconic and awesome characters like Black Canary, Sgt. Rock, Poison Ivy and Ragman. He truly deserves to be remembered in a positive light
Kanigher was a fantastic writer when he cared about the character and wanted to do great things with them. He wrote some of the best war stories DC ever did and he was a great writer, but.. He was a terrible Wonder Woman writer and clearly phoned it in. He was just copying what was done in Superman at the time and it shows. It's so badly written, rushed, and none of Kanigher's fantastic abilities or details. He's may have been one of the longest and one of the first WW writers to just.. phone it in, but he certainly wasn't the last and he certainly wasn't one that openly hated Wonder Woman as several more recent writers have.. and his stamp on Wonder Woman is still felt in 2023..
What I like about King is that when he wants to investigate a topic, he does so so with complexity. When he really understands what he wants to write, he writes it very well. Just think about Miracle Man, Strange Adventures, and Human Target. All really good books, that had one central theme and strong narrative. Where King is weak is understanding characters. Between Strange Adventures and Mister Miracle the characters are complex but clearly are KING's VERSIONs of them. He's not making a Mister Miracle comic, as much as he is writing another character who also happens to be that character. This showed when he wrote Batman as a consistently grumpy guy with darkness in him-- the most shallow and uninteresting version of bruce. Here I'm scared for Diana. Her character is distinct and complex. Both things that King is not great with dealing with in terms of established characters. If we are lucky, we are going to get a complex character who happens to be called Diana Prince and Wonder woman. At worst, we are going to get King's shallow impression of who diana is.
This is honestly one of the most insightful critiques on Tom King’s work I’ve seen, props to you for that. But yeah, I 100% agree with basically everything you said here - King is a very hit-or-miss writer precisely because of his emphasis on style/form over characterization. He’s the kind of writer who adheres to a very specific set of tools, but those tools aren’t always the ones that fit the task he’s been assigned - when they do, you get a masterpiece, and when they don’t, you get something average at best and a genuine garbage fire at worst. I mostly enjoyed the first issue of his Wonder Woman, but it’s too early for me to tell if he’ll stick the landing or not, so for now I’ll keep reading it and keep my fingers crossed.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 yeah true. But to be fair to him, most writers have a voice. The issue with writing in comics is that voice cannot be heard when writing established characters. I mean, plenty of writers have distinct types of characters they like writing or using, or distinct types of critique they love to implement. The sad truth is in comics, when you got big name legacy characters you're dancing on a tight rope when it comes to writing with voice.
The Jake Skywalker effect. Creative wants to tell their story, character(s) don't fit their story, creative changes character(s) into someone(s) else to work for their story.
I think this is the first era in comics where I'm disinclined to buy from specifc comics authors, not because of how they write or even their politics, but because of how they've acted in the real world.
King looks at Wonder Woman as someone who berates them for Diana never sees herself as perfect, but knows that strife cannot be stopped with words alone. It's sad to me that the Masters who have captured the essence of Wonder Woman stories and made them so great are not working on them now.😢
Based on his past works, I'd have been impressed if he'd simply managed to write Sgt. Steel in character. I do not recognize this government agent, and I've read stories featuring him before. Of course, this is the man who engineered a whole story around turning Adam Strange into a war criminal. I'm seriously worried about where this book is going, and we're only a single issue into the run.
@@SingularityOrbit Kings Adam Strange Book was Black Label for a good reason: it's meant to be an examination of the difference between how a war hero is created by propaganda and what it actually takes to win a war. It also highlights how our fiction often reflects false beliefs of society. Adam Strange is a direct descendant of the White Colonial Savior and American Exceptionalism. Hence intertwining the quotes of Adam Strange into the story. Since King was in war as a CIA agent, he does have insight into this sort of thing. Obviously exploring that version cannot be made canon to an IP.
My first impressions so far is that I'm not yet sold on this direction for Diana. I get focusing on her being inspiring figure and something a lot of young woman aspire to, but the lack of subtlety in the storytelling is offputting. It worries me because i feel like Diana's character needs some of that subtlety especially if they're going for a peace seeking paragon route. Maybe its the choice of narrator that Im not sure works. But the art is phenomenal, main reason i am reading it.
I think my problem with Wonder Woman is simply that she lacks cohesion throughout her history. With Superman and Batman you had creators building onto what's come before and because of that one can draw a relatively straight line from their intial appearences until today and still be able to recognize those characters. Wonder Woman however has been massively retooled over the decades making it much more difficutl to pin her down. And Tom King isn't helping here at all. An espionage thriller seems to be one of the most incompatible stories one could do with her, since those usually don't gove much room, if any, for her character core of wanting to foster understanding between people. The character gets yanked all over the place to the point where DC might aswell declare every other run if not every other issue to be an elseworlds. What Wonder Woman would need is an EXTREMLY basic run where she just has adventures involding her traditional villains and greek mythology. Literally what Perez did and it worked fairly well to the point that basicly all adaptations draw from it. I'm also still at a loss about the renumbering. Like... why?! Nothing about this story appears to require any reboot or reset of any kind in order to work. Same with The Flash. Why? The whole Dawn of DC thing is absurd to me because they just slap a new name on the same old problem riddled thing. As far as I'm concerned this is all still the New52.
@@Superaqualad5459 Geoff Johns is probably the worst person for taking care of continuity because he just considers everything to be in canon including the bad stuff that was thrown out of continuity for a reason. He was the driving force behind bringing back the multiverse even tho it was destroyes to make the comics less confusing. He's not a man of good decisions that's for sure.
I totally agree, instead of building new and engaging stories with Wonder Woman's rich history and connection with greek mythology, they keep trying to reinvent the wheel and make "the" definitive interpretation, even though classics seldom are written to be classics.
This video got me thinking that Amanda Waller could really be a fantastic villain for Wonder Woman if handled right. Where Diana is an honorable warrior, Waller uses dirty tactics. There could be a fun exploration of how these two characters have opposing ideologies on how to help mankind, would be pretty interesting. Also Waller could form a task force like the Suicide Squad that she needs to fight (one that could pose a threat to her)
I would love a video discussing why and when the Amazons decided to send some of their other peeps to America. I haven't read Wonder Woman since the 80s, so I'm a little confused by the premise.
From my community post: “I don’t necessarily think Wonder Woman is hard to write. There have been some really successful iterations, George Perez, Greg Rucka (twice), Gail Simone and William Messner-Leobs for example. I don’t think King went into this with the right frame of mind plus his track record for deconstructing DC characters unnecessarily. His take even perhaps without the intention is misogynist & criminalising the Amazon’s is such a tired trope. What I think is, like many male writers who take on Diana they don’t know what to do with the WW mythos & especially are challenged writing large groups of female characters so it’s easier to take the Amazons out & reduce Diana to a singular character (Brian Azzerello & Denny O’Neil are examples of this trope). I was angry for much of issue #1 but will admit to being intrigued by the “secret” King at the end. That said I’m a little more Zen than I was reading Azzerello’s revisionist take on Diana than King as I’ve learned with comics “this to shall pass”. 🧘🏼♂️”
I found the premise and dialogue particularly appalling. I have stuck with WW since childhood, through the best and worst of the character, but this was a bridge too far. It's as if the writing took Dr. Psycho's misogyny and dialed it up to 11. I'll be waiting for this to pass, because I've got no interest in suffering through it.
What's the realistic place to draw inspiration from to write a large group of heroic women? The counterpart of male draft, prostitutes like Iron town in Princess Mononoke? College students taking more and more space in the cafeteria, telling each other "you CAN sit with us"?
@@ravenwilder4099 The lie part, maybe, but the White Magician claims he was involved with the birth of America, so the "secretly involved with American politics through magical means" reminds me of him.
Thanks for this. I’m a huge Wonder Woman fan but I didn’t particularly enjoy this issue very much. I guess I’m just an old school simpleton. My favorite was a 23 issue run of WONDER WOMAN: AGENT OF PEACE. They were short, simple and action packed. Probably marketed to a younger audience but I enjoyed them anyway.
As always great video with very nuance takes. I wish the comic itself could have been similar, but oh well. I personally plan on giving King's run two more issues to hopefully find it's footing. But as it's stands now nothing particularly interesting beyond the surface level thing's like the art being pretty
I never understand the need to put down other heroes in order to prop up the one you're writing. Black Canary is about as rebellious as it comes, she's literally been defined lately as ground level punk fighting against the establishment. Hell, her voice is used to sing, which is literally an artform. Perhaps the best example to describe what they seem to be solely attributing to Diana, which is kinda baffling. To me if you want to describe WW as different in the context of America, you don't have to diminish her role as a fighter. To me Diana has always been about truth first and foremost. Batman is justice, Superman is hope, but Diana is about understanding. She's an outsider through and through, and as a result is able to approach any element of humanity from a fresh perspective. And her struggle as a character is being able to understand even the negatives of the world without condemning them. That's the strength of the lasso, if she encounters someone that calls her a bitch, she can use it to know what they truly think and understand why they'd resort to that kind of language. But in this context when you present someone as just being that evil man here to represent how America and sexism is bad, her choosing to crush his fist feels like something any female hero could do. I can see Canary doing that, Supergirl, Starfire, Batwoman, it's not exactly a strong stand out moment so much as it's kinda played out and safe. And for her to have forgiveness and understanding without sacrificing her ground or refusing to fight is in itself a bold concept and something that I feel can be inspiring for anyone. Hell it's a good reason Dr. Psycho could be her main antagonist, they both refuse to back down when it comes to the battle of beliefs. Psycho uses illusions and manipulation to get what he wants, Diana uses truth regardless of if it's pleasant or ugly. It feels like the elements are there, and trying to say that they aren't and that you need to set the standard by going a different direction feels less like taking up a challenge and more overstating your importance. At least in my opinion, I don't know Tom King very well outside some of his work.
Here's a problem I have with so many writers I hear speaking and a phrase they use. They want to write a "character defining run". They want the glory before the story is even told. The great stories of characters are great often because of how time was good to them. A writer had a good story to tell and told it. Whenever I hear a writer is going to tell a character defining story, it's likely they are going to make some kind of 180 on the character to make it stand out, then the either reset to status quo in the end, or let the next writer retcon the crap they pulled. Just tell a good story! If people like it, if it's well told, then perhaps it will go down as character defining. Also, Tom King is an idiot. I avoid anything he writes now because aside from his okay run on Vision, what he writes turn to crap pretty fast. Which is sad because I'd like to get back into reading Wonder Woman but not while he's writing it.
I mean, I thought Mr. Miracle and Woman of Tomorrow were pretty good. But like, that’s just my opinion - I don’t have any beef with you for not liking King’s work. I respect your opinion.
I'm not completely disagreeing with you but there are plenty of great superhero comics written with the intention of making it definitive for the character. Plenty of failures too, but for instance whenever John Byrne started a book with a classic character his intention was always to make a lasting impact on that character. All-Star Superman, Dark Knight Returns, Ultimate Spider-man, they all knew what the potential impact was right from the beginning. Wonder Woman at the moment doesn't have anything close to an iconic story in the same way as DKR or even an Alan Moore Superman issue (not talking overall quality, just broad recognizability) so maybe it's fine that people are putting in the effort for WW. Not saying that Tom King can actually pull it off but I think it's fine if that's his intention.
Yeah, everyone wants to "leave their mark" on a character instead of just writing a good story. They're all trying to write the next _Sandman_ or _Batman: Year One_ or _Watchmen._ But when celebrated writers like Miller, Moore, Gaiman, Perez, Morrison, etc. wrote their comics, they weren't thinking "I'm going to write the next blah blah blah." They were thinking "I'm going to write something compelling."
@@spandytube A couple of thoughts on these examples. All-Star Superman and TDKR were both written as "last stories" -- the ends of those characters' stories -- explicitly not to lock in the way their stories ended, but to create legends of their endings. The creators both felt that legendary heroes became more clearly legendary if they had a final tale, even if everyone was free to ignore it. USM, meanwhile, was the beginning of an alternate universe take on Spidey meant to evoke the original high-school era of Peter's life. The key here is that all three stories were created to be out of continuity with the characters' histories or destinies in their own books, so the writers were free to do whatever they liked without fear of causing problems. As for Byrne, he approached all of his work with respect for the characters' personalities as shown in prior comics. His occasionally . . . let's say peculiar . . . story themes were his own, but at least the characters still spoke in their own voices. I think the problem a lot of readers are having is the way that King's own ideas tend to eclipse both the story style of the characters and their actual personalities. As a comparison, you can send Sherlock Holmes to an alien planet as a bizarre fish-out-of-water story, to see how his methods handle a strange new environment. You can have Holmes as a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations, as an alternative take on his classic obsessions (that's the BBC Sherlock approach). If you send a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations to an alien planet, you're not even close to telling a Sherlock Holmes story anymore. That's what Tom King's writing feels like sometimes. It's going to be up to him to prove that he can turn a self-serious, grim political thriller starring warrior women into a Wonder Woman story.
Diana going up against societal structures does make sense given she grew up in a completely different type of society but within a status quo that tries to mirror the real world she can't really cause the change she might be fighting for so I think it would definitely make sense for it to be an elseworld. This is probably why it had to fall back on having one bad guy be the cause of all the bad stuff that's going on and I can't really see that it's going to be a satisfying conclusion to have Diana beat the Sovereign because one secret bad guy just doesn't fit within the allegory as the cause of the problem and she'll go back to living in a world that mirrors ours where the problems she fought continue on.
I love stories that explore Diana's inherent otherness due to just how different her society is. This however, so far, is not that. It'll be interesting to see how this arc goes.
As far as I can recall, Sarge Steel (formerly of Charlton) had his first DC appearance in "Legends" in 1987, the same series that introduced the Waller, so he is a contemporary of here, in that sense, and pre-dates her in others. Curiously, he was Diana's boss at the DEO during the Gail Simone run. Traditionally, he's a good guy. Using Steel, rather than the Wall, though... Not only is his genitalia is on the outside, but he's also Caucasian. Neither is true for Waller. Maybe it's part of the point King is trying to make. As you said, there's no subtlety.
With all due respect, I feel like, in our current political climate, we’re well past the time for subtlety. If you want to break down a concrete wall, you wouldn’t use a scalpel as your first choice.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 As the other Sarge Steel fan, I'm not pissed, just mystified. Why take a character with established heroic characteristics and turn him into an overt bad guy? Could have just created a new character to fit the bill. I'm sure few tears will be spilled over the Sarge's heel turn, but it's a pattern in King's work I'm tired of.
I must say. I am a more new WW fan, I’ve recently gotten really into her and reading the Perez and Messner-Loebs stuff and I actually picked up WW #1 yesterday. So take my stance with a grain of salt as I may not have the best full knowledge of the character yet but I personally loved the issue. Also as a Tom King super fan, I loved the tone, the art was amazing, it Kept me interested and invested throughout, it was a good single issue I can reread many times. Again, as a newer WW fan my opinion my not be the strongest but I really liked the depiction of Diana, despite understanding that she feels Detached from the story itself, but I really vibe with it, she feels strong and has a impressive Aura, I loved the set up and her big reveal moment. I struggle to articulate myself well (ESPECIALLY on a UA-cam comment) so forgive me if what I say doesn’t make much sense, my brain is very slow and Swiss cheese at times. But essentially I really liked it and I will definitely check out more of the run
I think your opinions are valid given your low level of exposure with WW. Sometimes a first encounter with something may seem fantastic, until you gain more experience to look back and really analyse it, at which point you may stick with your original opinion or discard it. As said in the video, there are several points that a reader will either accept what the comic is presenting to them or check out entirely. If you managed to pass all those checks and consider it a good experience then that's fine. There have been times I have disliked something popular or liked something that is hated as well. The only thing that can ever change your opinion is time, experiencing other comparable media and reflection, but you're not necessarily obligated to do that when it comes to a casual hobby, no matter what some enthusiasts may say. Still, I would recommend checking out other WW comics and comparing them to King's as a fun exercise if you really want to.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I do! I never want to live in a echo chamber and I want to read the Azzerello and Rucka stuff too. I also heart Historia was good and continue the runs I’m currently reading. So don’t worry. I won’t just go, “I like this, so I’ll never read that”
Here is my timeline of the Earth-Two/New Earth/Prime Earth Wonder Woman Family. 1938: The Golden Age begins. 1940: The JSA was formed. 1941: Steve Trevor crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing Diana to arrive on Man’s World, make her debut as the first Wonder Woman, and take on the identity of Diana Prince in DC. Helena Kosmotos made her debut as the first Fury. The Seven Soldiers of Victory, All-Star Squadron, and Freedom Fighters were formed, and the Freedom Fighters traveled to Earth-X. 1942: Diana joined the JSA. The Young All-Stars were formed before they eventually became part of the All-Star Squadron. 1948: The Seven Soldiers of Victory were scattered throughout time. 1951: The JSA disbanded. 1953: Diana traveled to Earth-59 and teamed up with the Earth-59 Wonder Woman to defeat Duke Dazam. 1956: The Silver Age begins. 1961: Flash of Two Worlds. 1962: Diana and Steve Trevor were married. 1963: The JSA came out of retirement and teamed up with the Earth-One JLA to defeat the Crime Champions. Hector Hall was born. 1964: Hippolyta “Lyta” Trevor, the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor, was born. 1970: The Bronze Age begins. 1972: The JSA and Earth-One JLA rescued the Seven Soldiers of Victory. 1973: The Earth-X Freedom Fighters were teamed up with the JSA and the Earth-One JLA. 1976: The JSA, Earth-One JLA, and Earth-S Squadron of Justice team up to defeat Earth-S King Kull. 1981: Judgment in Infinity. 1982: Diana revealed her identity as the first Wonder Woman to the world. Beautiful Dreamer, Death Unto Thee. Earth-One Diana Wonder Woman meets Lyta Trevor. Lyta Trevor made her debut as the second Fury, and Hector Hall made his debut as the Silver Scarab. Infinity Inc. was formed. 1984: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were engaged. 1985: Crisis On Infinite Earths. Diana and Steve Trevor arrive on Mount Olympus, causing Lyta Trevor to graduate as the second Wonder Woman. The JSA was sent to Limbo. 1986: Legends. 1987: Hector Hall was killed, resurrected, and graduated as the second Sandman. Millennium. 1988: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were married. Infinity Inc. was disbanded. Cosmic Odyssey. Invasion! 1989: Hector Hall was killed again. 1990: Daniel Hall was born. 1991: War of the Gods. Armageddon 2001. 1992: Eclipso: The Darkness Within. The JSA returned from Limbo. 1993: Bloodlines. 1994: Zero Hour. The JSA disbanded. 1995: Underworld Unleashed. Daniel Hall made his debut as the third Sandman. 1996: The Final Night. 1997: Genesis. 1998: DC One Million. 1999: The JSA was reformed again. Hector Hall was resurrected, graduated as the fifth Doctor Fate, and joined the JSA along with Lyta Trevor. Day of Judgement. 2001: Our Worlds At War. 2004: Identity Crisis. 2005: Infinite Crisis. Hippolyta Trevor and Hector Hall disappeared. 2006: Diana and Steve Trevor died. 52. 2007: One Year Later. 2008: Final Crisis. 2009: The JSA All-Stars were formed. The Titans disbanded again. Blackest Night. 2010: Brightest Day. The JSA All-Stars disbanded to join the JSA. 2011: Flashpoint. 2013: Forever Evil. Trinity War. 2014: The Multiversity. Trinity of Sin. 2015: Convergence. DCYou. Darkseid War. 2016: DC Rebirth. 2017: Dark Nights: Metal. 2020: Dark Nights: Death Metal. Endless Winter. 2021: Infinite Frontier. The Lost Children (renamed the Young Society) returned. 2022: Dark Crisis. Lazarus Planet. 2023: Dawn of DC. Knight Terrors. 2025: Time Crisis. 2030: Secret Crisis.
I would love to see you do a deep dive on something like Omega Men, which to me feels like the most King book in terms of not having to bend himself to the magnitude of the character.
1:24 comicpop was not a fan of Tom King and critiqued his work. But with the help of his wife now they are good friends and he shills for Tom's work hard now
Thanks for covering this in a balanced way. I understand why King is polarizing, but I tend to like his writing (I thought the last issue of Danger Street was hilarious). I mostly view his work as elseworlds stories so I get nervous when he's put on main titles. Sampere's art is awesome though so I'm here for it at least as long as he is!
I feel I must disagree with the "Why not just use Waller, highlight some female villains." in part because King is clearly focusing on patriarchal ideals within the concept of warriors/war/soldiers via modern America (which is so up his alley it's got his name on the alleyway sign). But also that to my knowledge/perception Wonder Woman has twice as many female villains as male ones. Veronica Cale, Dr Cyber, Silver Swan, Circe, Cheetah...I know there's more vs Dr Psycho, Ares and arguably Maxwell Lord. I think it's quite smart to bring in a forgotten character, a man with a literal iron fist to represent American Military Industrial Complex & have WW crush it. It's very Tom King. But as Tom King things go...seems like a solid first issue. Even though it highlights his fear of writing WW by...not really writing WW.
That's why Waller would work because she's using other super powered people to basically commit war crimes for he US government. Waller/Suicide Squad vs WW would be a good arc and still do what Tom King likes to do
That "Oh Lawd" meme was right on time, I wouldn't be surprised if you had cornrows under that wig lol anyway, you're definitely invited to the cookout lol
I think Vandal Savage could be great archnemesis for Wonder Women. Young Justice has proven that caveman has the potential to be up there with the likes of Lex and Batman's entire rogues gallery. Vandal was involved in WW2, fought the JSA and has been aiding conquerors for centuries so the Amazons must have been aware of him some time in the past. So yeah, the divine ambassador for peace and eternal warlord, that's my pitch.
Merciful Minerva but yes! Diana's core villain IS Dr Cyber. There was plenty that Denny O'Neil didn't like about his own run on WW, but his arch nemeses are hard to beat!
Hi ! Just wanted you to know you are one of my favorite channel on UA-cam ^^ Every video is so well researched and full of nuance. You paint a beautiful portrait everytime and I wish you the best !
Thank-you for a great video and creating a space to discuss comics, greatly appreciated. You made some great points and I was very inspired to comment. Writing Wonder Woman isn't difficult, and I agree with another commenter that her basic character is not complicated. The fact tom has already made such an incredibly immature statement about taking George Perez's comment so personal and challenging, is a grossly SAD red flag about the basic white/colonist man's alarming DEFICIENCY. It's clear any writer having to kill off Amazons in their first issue's run, does not have the respect or basic creative ability to even be allowed the position of getting anywhere near a character, especially Wonder Woman. The first issue was a total projection of who tom is as a powerful woman, what a tragic MESS. The outfit given to Wonder Woman's daughter should have been the costume given to Wonder Woman, to say the least, really, it's past time for an updated and respectful outfit.
I'm hoping that Lasso of Lies comes from Eris in some way. I really like her as an anti-Wonder Woman, and having her use a lasso like that to manipulate the world (especially if she used it past America, maybe passing it down from one conquering superpower to the next as a more powerful "golden apple") could be a lot of fun.
I have persistently purchased Wonder Woman comics for nearly 30 years (through the good and bad)… but King taking over the writing chores finally convinced me to drop the title. I dislike his character-assassinating, ultra-depressive style that much.
Also, I've already read a DC Comic that covered a "secret origin of America." John Ostrander's Spectre run went with the Founding Fathers having a secret ceremony which created a ghostly avatar for the United States... which went on to bevome Uncle Sam. The ending was a little hokey, but it looked at America as flawed but optimistic. There's worse stories and hot takes on America than that.
I feel like DC needs to start using the entire continuity of their characters histiry now. The aftermath of Dark Knights Death Metal should have both herors and villiabs and the workd making all sorts of new choices
Not with the egos of some of these writers, they have canon right in front of them to make it kinda easy and they want the hardest way knowing people aren't gonna vibe with it. Hell, Dark Knights Death Metal in hindsight was so bad
Never underestimate Kings' ability to ruin any character he touches. He seems to hate every comic character he writes. He shouldn't worry about getting a book right, he has never gotten one single book right.
Here is my timeline of the Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth Wonder Woman Family. 63 Years Ago (1931): Diana and Nubia of Paradise Island were born from clay. Nubia was kidnapped by Mars. 50 Years Ago (1944): Diana made her debut as the first Wonder Girl. 46 Years Ago (1948): Donna Hinckley, the daughter of Dorothy Hinckley, was born in Newport News, Virginia before she was adopted by Fay and Carl Stacey. 44 Years Ago (1950): Carl Stacey was killed, causing Fay Stacy to give up Donna Hinckley. Steve Trevor crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing Diana to arrive on Man’s World, graduate as the first Wonder Woman, and take on the identity of Diana Prince in DC. Diana saved Donna Hickley from a burning apartment building, causing [Donna] to be sent to Paradise Island to be raised by Queen Hippolyta. 38 Years Ago (1956): The Silver Age begins. 37 Years Ago (1957 to 1958): Diana traveled to Dimension X and met her counterpart. 36 Years Ago (1959): The JLA was formed. 34 Years Ago (1961): Flash of Two Worlds. 33 Years Ago (1962 to 1966): The Doom Patrol was formed. The Earth-Two JSA came out of retirement and teamed up with the JLA to defeat the Crime Champions. Donna Hinckley made her debut as the second Wonder Girl. The first-generation Teen Titans were formed. Cassie Sandsmark was born. 32 Years Ago (1967 to 1969): Wonder Woman’s Last Battle. Paradise Island disappeared after Diana gave up her powers, causing Diana to leave the JLA and move to NYC. Steve Trevor was killed by Doctor Cyber. Donna Hinckley took on the identity of Donna Troy and moved to Greenwich Village, NYC. 31 Years Ago (1970 to 1972): The JLA and Earth-Two JSA rescued the Earth-Two Seven Soldiers of Victory. Paradise Island reappeared, causing Diana to regain her powers and meet Nubia. The first-generation Teen Titans disbanded. 30 Years Ago (1973 to 1974): The Earth-X Freedom Fighters teamed up with the JLA and the Earth-Two JSA. Nubia moved back to Paradise Island. Kara Zor-El Supergirl was briefly adopted by Queen Hippolyta. The Twelve Labors. Diana rejoins the JLA. 29 Years Ago (1975 to 1976): Eros, the uncle of Diana, took possession of Steve Trevor and took on the identity of Steve Howard. The JLA, Earth-Two JSA, and Earth-S Squadron of Justice team up to defeat Earth-S King Kull. The first-generation Teen Titans were reformed. 28 Years Ago (1978 to 1983): The first-generation Teen Titans disbanded again. Steve Howard was killed, causing Eros’ essence to be released. Diana has her first team-up with Donna Hinckley to defeat Headmaster Mind. Orana of Paradise Island made her debut as the second Wonder Woman before she died. The Steve Trevor of Earth-270 crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing all of Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth to forget about the death of Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth Steve Trevor and Diana to move back to DC. The New Teen Titans were formed. Judgment in Infinity. Beautiful Dreamer, Death Unto Thee. Diana traveled to Earth-Two and met Lyta Trevor, the daughter of the Earth-Two Diana and Steve Trevor. The Outsiders were formed. Donna Hinckley learned of her origins. 27 Years Ago (1984): Donna Troy and Terry Long were married. The JLA disbands to form the JLDetroit. The Steve Trevor of Earth-270 and Eros sacrificed their essence to resurrect the Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth Steve Trevor. 26 Years Ago (1985): Crisis On Infinite Earths. Steve Trevor learned Diana’s identity as the first Wonder Woman, causing them to get married before Diana was killed by the Anti-Monitor. Nubia arrived on Man’s World and made her debut as the third Wonder Woman. 25 Years Ago (1986): Gods and Mortals. Legends. The JLDetroit disbanded. The JLI was formed. Diana was resurrected with her memories intact, revealed her identity to the world, and moved to Boston with Steve Trevor. 24 Years Ago (1987): Challenge of the Gods. Millennium. The New Guardians were formed. 23 Years Ago (1988): Yara Flor was born. The New Teen Titans graduated as the New Titans. Donna Hinckley graduated as Troia. Cosmic Odyssey. The JLE was formed. Invasion! 22 Years Ago (1989): Diana discovered the Amazons of the Bana-Mighdall. The JLI graduated as the JLAmerica. 21 Years Ago (1990 to 1992): War of the Gods. Armageddon 2001. Operation Cheetah. Robbie Long was born. Eclipso: The Darkness Within. The JLE was reformed as the JLI. 20 Years Ago (1993 to 1994): The JLTF was formed. Bloodlines. Hippolyta Milton, the daughter of Circe and Ares, was born. Donna Hinckley graduated as a Darkstar. Zero Hour. The JLI disbanded. The Contest. Artemis of the Bana-Mighdall made her debut as the fourth Wonder Woman. Poison, Claws, and Death! Extreme Justice was formed. 19 Years Ago (1995 to 1996): Joker’s Holiday. Artemis was killed, causing Diana to reclaim her mantle as Wonder Woman. Second Genesis. Diana and Steve Trevor moved to Gateway City. Donna Hinckley and Terry Long were divorced. Underworld Unleashed. Lifelines. The New Titans, JLAmerica, JLTF, and Extreme Justice disband. The second-generation Teen Titans were formed. Lizzie Trevor, daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor, was born. Artemis made her debut as Requiem and was resurrected. Cassie Sandsmark made her debut as the third Wonder Girl. The Final Night. The Men Who Moved the World. The JLA was reformed. 18 Years Ago (1997 to 1998): Diana was killed. Genesis. Diana graduated as the Goddess of Truth, causing Queen Hippolyta to make her debut as the fifth Wonder Woman. The second-generation Teen Titans disbanded. Young Justice was formed. Diana returned to the role as the second Wonder Woman. DC One Million. Trinity. Donna Hinckley graduated as Donna Troy. 17 Years Ago (1999): The Titans were formed. Devastation. Godwar. Day of Judgement. The Pandora Virus. 16 Years Ago (2000): Three Hearts. Devastation Returns. A Piece of You. God Complex. Gods of Gotham. 15 Years Ago (2001): Paradise Island Lost. Our Worlds At War. Cassie Sandsmark revealed her identity to the world. Queen Hippolyta was killed. The Witch and the Warrior. 14 Years Ago (2002 to 2003): Land of the Lost. Cassie Sandsmark forms a romantic relationship with Conner Kent Superboy. Trevor Barnes made his debut as the first Wonder Boy. The Game of the Gods. Diana, Steve Trevor, and Lizzie Trevor moved to NYC. The Titans and Young Justice disbanded to form the first-generation Young Titans. Down to Earth. 13 Years Ago (2004): Bitter Pills. Identity Crisis. Stoned. 12 Years Ago (2005 to 2006): Counting Coup. The Bronze Doors. Cassie Sandsmark learns that she is the daughter of Zeus. Marathon. Infinite Crisis. Paradise Island disappears again. Hippolyta Milton was kidnapped and captured by Ares. The JLA disbands again. 52. 11 Years Ago (2007): Diana, Steve Trevor, and Lizzie Trevor moved to DC. Donna Troy made her debut as the sixth Wonder Woman. One Year Later. Who is Wonder Woman? The JLA reformed again. Love and Murder. Paradise Island returned again. Queen Hippolyta was resurrected. The Titans reform again. The Circle. 10 Years Ago (2008 to 2011): Expatriate. Ends of the Earth. Final Crisis. Rise of the Olympian. Birds of Paradise. Warkiller. The Titans disbanded again. Blackest Night. A Murder of Crows. Brightest Day. Wrath of the Silver Serpent. The Odyssey. Flashpoint. Cassie Sandsmark graduated as the Fury. The JLI reforms again. Young Justice was reformed. The third-generation Teen Titans, the Outlaws, and the JLDark were formed. Robbie Long made his debut as the second Wonder Boy. 9 Years Ago (2012): The JLI disbands again. 8 Years Ago (2013): Forever Evil. Trinity War. 7 Years Ago (2014): The Multiversity. Trinity of Sin. 6 Years Ago (2015): Convergence. DCYou. Darkseid War. 5 Years Ago (2016): DC Rebirth. Robbie Long graduated as Darkstar. The Titans have reformed again. Cassie Sandsmark found Hippolyta Milton, causing [Hippolyta] to make her debut as the fourth Wonder Girl. Lizzie Trevor made her debut as Trinity. Artemis joined the Outlaws. Peng Deilan made her debut as the Wonder Woman of China. The JLC was formed. The Super Sons were formed. 4 Years Ago (2017 to 2018): Godwatch. Heart of the Amazon. Dark Nights: Metal. Children of the Gods. Cassie Sandsmark found her brother Jason. Artemis formed a romantic relationship with Jason Todd Red Hood. Swan’s Son. Amazons Attacked. The Dark Gods. The Enemy of Both Sides. The JLO was formed. The Just War. 3 Years Ago (2019 to 2020): The Grudge. Cassie Sandsmark and Conner Kent Superman were married. Giants War. Love Is a Battlefield. Return of the Amazons. Loveless. The Wild Hunt. The Iron Maiden. The Four Horsewomen. The Outlaws and JLO disbanded. Dark Nights: Death Metal. Diana sacrificed herself to save the world. Endless Winter. 2 Years Ago (2021): Infinite Frontier. Afterworlds. Yara Flor arrived in Brazil. Diana returned from ascension. Through a Glass Darkly. 1 Year Ago (2022): Trial of the Amazons. Yara Flor made her debut as the fifth Wonder Girl. The Villainy of Our Fears. Feral. Dark Crisis. Hippolyta Milton graduated as Lyta Wonder. Before the Storm. Lazarus Planet. Lazarus Planet: Revenge of the Gods. Whatever Happened to the Warrior of Truth? Now (2023): Dawn of DC. Yara Flor graduated as Yara Flor. Hunter Kent, son of Conner Kent and Cassie Sandsmark, was born. Knight Terrors. Wonder Woman: Outlaw. 2 Years From Now (2025): Time Crisis. 7 Years From Now (2030): Secret Crisis. 10 Years From Now (2033): Hunter Kent made his debut as the Super Wonder. The Superkids were formed. 2981 (2957 to 2958): The Original Legion of Super-Heroes was formed. 6284: Diana traveled from 1996 to save the Amazons of Paradise Island from Porcine Aliens. 6698: The Wonder Woman of the 67th Century made his debut. 78998: The Amazons of Paradise Island wandered the stars in a space ark built by Hermes. 79998: The Amazons of Paradise Island colonized Venus. 85271: The Wonder Woman and Troy of the 853rd century made her debut. The Justice Legions were formed. DC One Million.
The problem with bring very real-world issues is that it grounds this fantastical world but in a bad way. It tends to send a very specific message with little to no nuance. At least for me, I want to read these to escape reality but putting in too many or too big issue real-world things defeats that escapism. Not everyone wants to slapped over the head with a message.
Yeah, our world's issues are easily solved in DC/Marvel. Due to said worlds are like 50 years more advanced in a lot of ways. This just feels dated already.
From the comments here i see that this might be one of those runs that i’ll love but some hardcore fans will hate. I like that this first issue takes the time to set things up and just shows us Diana shortly, so we understand the context she is in. I like the themes. I like the perception of her as a rebel against the status quo - she was literally created by Marston for that reason. I like the idea of sovereign. The art is amazing. Really, how is this clumsy or not in character (she barely shows up and people already decided she is not in character). Idk. Maybe ends up being annoying and frustrating like his Batman run, but for me its off to a great start.
Very interesting. I haven't read anything by Tom King that I'm aware of, but what you're describe sounds a lot like the problem I have with Brian Michael Bendis. The man is very clearly a strong competent writer, but he kind of puts *everything* subservient to the story he's trying to tell. Character traits, pacing, past history, none of it really matters in the end, because he's going to tell the story he wants to tell no matter what. Sounds like the same issue here.
I think her core villain should be a woman.....and a man A sort of competition of opposition of Diana's values. And i personally have no idea why the villains she does have aren't that prominent in the popular consciousness. Maybe Maxwell Lord, but he's more a justice league villain who moonlights as an ally. Cheetah, Dr Poison, Dr Psycho and a few other icons of WW just don't have the unkillability/psuedo immortality of Lex or Joker. You expect Diana to win with mild difficulty at worst whereas there is a legitimate chance of Joker and Lex winning for long stretches of time. And her immortal enemies of Circe and Ares and Eris, they're just meh. Wonder Woman was always going to be difficult coz of her mythological origin which is explicitly separate from the stuff Superman and Batman do (mad scientists, gangsters, crazy weirdos like Scarecrow and Joker plus the occasional alien for a doomsday scenario), you know, things that click with an average person. She's stuck with gods and monsters, and when she's not one wonders why she's involved at least a little bit. I liked the Wonder Woman movie, and even liked 1984 in concept, if not execution. But i always thought in the back of my mind that the premise was ridiculous. This Warrior Woman, in an isolated culture from the rest of the world should have had a better introduction to the wider world. A better reason to be part of it. While i cant come up with a better plot than the ones published off the top of my head, that's not my job. And me being a classical mythology enthusiast probably doesn't help with that. 😏. My guy Kyle Raynor is always welcome to the chat
How about pair of twins, career criminals that commit crimes mainly for the thrill of it. They challenge Diana's idea of kindness being selfish for no reason and could pose a challenge to her being two people that more than likely have a good sync with each other. If you want to go even deeper, you can make it so the sister is the sadist and the brother is the more level headed one, wanting some relaxation and thinking that violence she be used as a last resort for efficiency sakes.
One thing I love about the Golden Age Wonder Woman is how it doesn't try to be too beholden to Greek Mythology. She has ties to Greek Mythology that serve as her origin and allow you to use mythological stuff when you feel like it. But her actual adventures weren't all about her dealing with gods and legendary figures and monsters. She'd hop on a space kangaroo to fight aliens on Mars and shit. She'd fight Nazis and other villains that have nothing to do with Ancient myth. Even Paradise Island was depicted not as a place that has been frozen in time since the ancient days of myth, but as a place that evolved and developed over the centuries parallel to the outside world. They had technology. I like how Perez brought in some more Greek stuff to serve as further material to use for stories (his version of the origin is the best one so far), but I still feel like he limited her adventures to mythological-related stuff too much when her comic should be tell any kind of story about her.
Okay, I’m gonna be the Hot Take guy here: I liked this issue. It does everything I feel like the first issue of a new series should do: introduce a new status quo, make us care about the stakes, make us hate the bad guys and root for the heroes. Is it perfect? No, but it got my attention, and more importantly, it has the potential to get better as it goes on. I still appreciate the video, though - I appreciate you allowing room for multiple perspectives on these sorts of topics.
it didn't though, it didn't introduce the hero or establish in any way who the hero is. It established the world and the current situation, and multiple unnecessary villains. It established a rehash of a 2007 event series that was extremely poorly received and just badly done all around that we're going to rehash for no reason... But it didn't establish who Diana is and what she means to this world or even what her purpose is in this world. That's more important than all the rest. Characters should drive the story, not story driving the story. King has an extremely bad habit of telling instead of showing and he's got an extremely bad habit of not caring one iota about the character and just forcing them to be vehicles for his story.. and Diana has suffered that so much. It's vastly more important in a Wonder Woman book to establish who the writer thinks Wonder Woman is and how she handles things and thinks about things because she's the vehicle for the story than it is to introduce another lame villain that's exactly like 200 other villains or rehash Amazon's attack again.
@@JanArrah Ok cool. I respectfully disagree, but I acknowledge the merits of your argument, and I do not wish to challenge your right to hold an opinion that is different from my own.
I have this one Wonder Woman/Ragman Chanukka story in my head that I'd love to write but will never get the chance. It basically revolves around the fact that WW is for all intents and purposes a Greek golem, and it would involve an ancient maccabee-era golem created to fight the Greeks reawakening in present day. It practically writes itself.
Honestly, Wonder Woman is not a hard character to write as long as you remember her core values and traits. Also, to create a new Wonder Woman storyline and villain all writers have to do is look into mythology and give her an evil god or monster to fight. Mythology is at the core of her stories, so draw from that. Superman is sci fi pulp, Batman is Noir, and Wonder Woman is fantasy and mythology.
His ideas are on point- she is a rebel, she went against her whole homelands ideology. She is different, she fights for something beyond order. She is a warrior, and has been trained in martial arts that are dead to the mordant world and therefore would pose a threat. It all depends on how this is executed. Even the fetish could be awesome if it’s coming from Steel as a character and not the book itself, because even if he does see her for being different he doesn’t understand what she really is. As for the man vs woman aspect that can be great if she is the one who clarifies that it shouldn’t be man vs woman but good vs evil. So much potential, hope it goes/went well
Saying Wonder Woman isn't a soldier definitely feels like they're going against what could be an excellent defining trait. Wonder Woman is a soldier who's been fighting for hundreds of years. If you want to give her a unique vibe compared to Batman and Superman, playing into that feels like your best option. Emphasize her efficiency and practicality, her ability to adapt and overcome to any situation via superior experience. Batman relies on gadgets and plans, Superman relies on powers and ideals, let Wonder Woman be the hero who relies entirely on herself, and whatever happens to be on hand. As for personality, if you want to keep her feeling human, make her battle-hardened and a little jaded, like a grizzled old veteran who's been doing this for too long. Emphasize the weight of her life's experiences, and have her sometimes flash back to old wars. If Superman is the optimist and Batman is the pessimist, let Wonder Woman be the realist.
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Themyscira is a woman-only "paradise" where women resolve differences through bondage and discipline. Just as William Marston intended.
They have a very strict border policy.
But Tom King would never let the character's history stand in the way of his mindless political pontificating.
I liked what you were wearing in this video Sasha.
Did you see the Movie 2017 The Professor and the Wonder Woman and if so what did you think of it?
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So the original WW movie from a few years ago was hard to make??? Looks to be pretty successful to me which is why they made a sequel. The quality is the question regardless of any film.
On a positive note, Daniel Sampere is crushing the art work. He’s quickly becoming one of my new favorite Wonder Woman artist.
King-penned books consistently have much better artwork than their narratives warrant.
@@christopherb501 i imagine thats why they do half as well as they normally do
That is the Idea...
George Perez will never get enough recognition. Not only he revived the popularity of Wonder Woman with his reboot and established a new complex lore that would surround our gorgeous Amazon to this day, but also created, along with Marv Wolfman, the most iconic and transcendental incarnation of the Teen Titans and the first major Crisis that changed DC forever.
R.I.P. Master
I got a bear hug from George Perez at a con once. That guy had some muscle. Lol.
He seemed like a mega-defender of the character, both writing & drawing her and openly criticizing her company for not highlighting her 50th anniversary.
I read a novel once which had as one of its core premises that Wonder Woman (she was called "Princess Powerful" in the book) was a character so trivial, so devoid of actual characteristics, that it made no difference who wrote her or what personality she displayed.
This was seemingly in explicit response to Perez's relaunch of Wonder Woman. I thought it was a strikingly myopic claim, and one of the worst possible examples to use.
He really got Diana as a personality. I have never been happy about his erasure of the Themyscirans' scientific progress across their thousands of years of peace (they were isolated, but they had magical scrying to even that out). There are a ton of ideas left to be explored about what the society of Paradise Island valued enough to study and build upon scientifically versus what they preferred to keep of their ancient ways of living. Having them as spear-wielding warrior-women who haven't changed throughout history was a really bad move, and one that wrecked Wonder Woman's approach to everything. So many writers after Perez got hung up on the "oh, she's a warrior now!" idea. Perez threaded the needle and kept the thing about Diana that makes her really different from the other heroes: Wonder Woman sees the world as wonderful, and seeks to engage with its wonders and show them to all the people she meets. She's a philosophical optimist, and somehow few writers beyond Perez seem to have grasped that.
Omg yes!!! He deserves all the credit!
I think King saying that Batman fights for the law is reductive, and is likely why it turns people away from his take on Batman. Batman fights to save lives. Sometimes the Venn diagram of the law and that goal overlap and sometimes it doesn't
Yeah. We always say that "Batman is waging a war against crime and criminals," but that's not really the case. If the government outlawed eating fish, Batman wouldn't start beating up people who eat fish. If the government legalized murder, Batman wouldn't stop beating up murderers. He says he's against "crime," but he's using that term more to mean "victimization."
Sometimes I get the feeling Tom King really doesn’t like Batman, and quotes like that don’t dissuade me,
Eh, I gave that bit of narration a pass since it's implied that the narrator of the issue is the big bad, so it's understandable that his perception would be a bit skewed. Like the people who say that Tarantino doesn't get Superman because of that one monologue from Kill Bill 2, except that monologue is from the perspective of a sociopathic mass murderer who clearly thinks that people like him are above humanity (and is also proven wrong).
@@DuelaDent52I think Tom King just doesn't like men. Look at when he wrote Taskmaster as terrified of a knocked out Black Widow. Dude has issues.
Yeah kinda makes batman sound like a government goon lol
Art is beautiful in this book. But it’s a “message first” story to me. The characters are just props to deliver whatever the writer wants to lecture the reader about. Also, this felt like Steel’s book. Not Diana’s. He was the focus and it was HIS struggle. Diana felt like a supporting character in her own book. I feel this deep dive into who Strel is could have come later after the story and Diana’s place within the story were more established
I gotta admit, the idea of making Amanda Waller the reoccurring nemesis to Wonder Woman seems like a great idea to me.
Why tho.
@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 The comparitions & contrast between 2 powerful and influent women
I think it's really smart because they both want similar things but have opposite ways of getting them and interpreting peace
@@isaiahtorok7079
You wouldn't want any kind of peace that has Amanda Waller backing it.
I've noticed that Amanda Waller is a perfect foil for DC's big three. The Suicide Squad, Cadmus and Amanda's hardline nature is a very good contrast against Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman.
Thank you so much for adressing the usa-centrism when it comes to Wonder Woman. I understand why it was originally there given the era and place she was created but I genuinely don't know why so many authors still tie her so much to it. Batman and Superman operating primarily within the usa makes sense given that they are american citizens and also each have their "own" defining cities. But Diana has no Gotham or Metropolis (which is also imo why her rouges gallery feels lacking. Batman villains are iconic because they are so tied to the setting) nor does she have any reason to be in the usa full time. If dc writers can write whole stories set in space, they should be able to write about Diana operating internationally.
That could easily be the foundation of the character. It's still an American story and IP, but WW could represent absurdities like USA taxing citizens across the globe as a form of bondage (pun intended, and PUN INTENDED, not sex-play) of their citizens, who also function as a good excuse to invade countries that allegedly have US civilian hostages. US special agents getting disappeared by CIA need not apply.
Wonder woman could be the spirit of this kind of universalist Americanism, the claim on "Western" culture despite abandoning most of the Greco-Roman infuence except on surface level, and having more in common with post-Abrahamic culture, like Mormonism reflects on christianity the same way fundamentalist reform reflects on 2 Billion muslims in the world.
I would genuinely transform her into clay in an event comic, as a commentary on US racialism over skin color. These writers CANNOT handle topics like US expansionism that appropriation of Byzantine myth INHERENTLY implies, and compels to take a clear side on the side of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But, her criticism of things like circumcision, is blocked for other reasons than lack of maturity, in "western comics" industry. It's mature and quite deliberate. Ridiculous subractions like "Batman is about the law" is the level of maturity we're dealing with, reminds me of the recent blind honking of applause done by the geese in Canada.
Doing stories set in space is much easier, though, since you don't have to worry about creating an accurate depiction of a real culture.
You wouldn't even have to go into space. An artificial island anchored in international waters, underwater or a city in the Arctic/Antarctic would do. When it comes to the oceans I'm sure Wonder Woman could come to an agreement with Aquaman. Register it with the UN and the Amazons could have their own country.
@@ravenwilder4099 I think that if someone is to be a professional writer for a big company then they ought to be able to do some research on how the everyday life in other countries is? And it's honestly not something that you really need to give a huge focus on: have a story where WW has to spend some time fighting a villain in one country, focus on the action, and then have her fight someone else somewhere else. And if they want her base of operations to be in the usa then at least give her a distinct setting like most other heroes.
@@nikoletta3855 People have tried to give Diana a distinct setting, it's just that once a new creative team takes over, they have a tendency to ignore everything the previous creative team did, so none of those distinct settings lasts for very long.
To me a lot of the times writers start to go the route of “X character has lost its way yada yada” it always ends in edgy😒sigh
Or now the most boiled down mess ever see Nightwing or Power Girl
@@SuperFliegenklatsche true, sadly as well
I dunno sometimes it’s true. Take Spider-Man for example. The writers have made him lose his way since all the way back at OMD!
Interesting that King could take a legendary artist's dying words and make it about himself. Fascinating.
Ah, that's nothing new. There are plenty of people who have said, "Give me a sign" and the sign came to them in some form or another. If what he said is true, that's probably all it was to him.
Thank you!
And I think he could’ve even spun in away where he could have said something like “I was inspired by George’s words and I wanted to see if we could reach the watermark set by him!” Making it more about the work of those who came before and the words of them rather be than me me me!
He was challenging ME calling ME a coward laughing at ME, you’re literally projecting your feelings on the words of a dying man who was talking about his own life accomplishments!!!!!!
Edit: Spelling
Tom king is a great writer
@@akkakkakekkn Tom King CAN be a great writer*
it mainly comes down to if he has to deal with an established canon or characterization of a character then he kinda falls apart a little bit,
I feel like Tom King would be a great AUTHOR, not so much a COMIC BOOK WRITER,
because when it comes to standalone character pieces and standalone stories I feel like he can do that well.
But comic books are almost never standalone, and the things he struggles with the most are found most often in this particular medium of comics…
Except maybe TV? Now that most shows are episodic in nature to some degree…
But outside of those I think it has proven to have some writing chops but not all writing is equal and not all writers are good at all writing equally… that’s a rare talent to have! 😊
Edit: grammar
Such a weird and pessimistic way to interpret what he said... Fascinating
Can I just fangirl for a second that both Wonder Women and Sailor Moon can use their headpieces as a a weapon in a similar way! 💕 👑 🌙
Wonder woman also had a costume change transformation too. Was just less elaborate
@@apex2000 @Superaqualad5459
Now it's Starfire with the magical girl transformation sequence.
I've read most of Wonder Woman - and by that I mean everything from 1941 to present day. And I have read contemporaneous issues since 1978. So, I am well acquainted with all the reboots and reimagining and direction changes over the years. For me, this actually feels clumsy, like the change of Wonder Woman to her kung fu era in an attempt to make her more contemporary and more feminist. Wonder Woman is a very strong character, and she always reverts to her basic core character despite efforts to make her a God or a fast food clerk or what have you. Having Wondy versus the US government is ok, but it does feel a lot like a couple of guys going "What if she really kicked ass? Like totally kicked ass?"
This sound clownish lmao. Wonder woman fighting the goverment fits her character aesthetic
Maxwell Lord's neck: *Exists*
Diana: "AND I TOOK THAT PERSONALLY!!"
Even in Black Label books King doesn't include the actual swear words most of the time. He's said that he prefers the use of grawlix.
For me, the Lasso of Truth is a double-edged sword. Truth can be freeing, and also extremely painful. The idea of having a "Lasso of Lies" is just, IMO, silly, as it doesn't really MEAN anything. Just as the real reason, IMO, that Diana doesn't have an "archenemy" the way Superman and Batman do, is twofold. One, back in the early days, exemplified by Paul Von Gunther, and Transformation Island, she truly believed in reforming her foes. And two, she has been hard to define by her creative teams, and even her fans, making someone who would be the antithesis of who she is hard to create, since that has yet to be fully fleshed out.
Every time one of these modern writers use the word "relatable" I already get worried. "Relatable to whom", because I usually find it hard to relate to these new takes on characters, even when I could in the past. Also, DC heroes are supposed to be, at least to me, aspirational, something we strive to be. They represent the best of humanity to the point that their civilian identities are also about helping others, even the rich dudes like Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen. I don't want to relate to DC heroes, I want to be like them despite not being a crimefighter, having superpowers, or wearing a colorful outfit. They aren't supposed to be like us; that's Marvel's deal. We are supposed to be more like them.
He's doing it for his kid, yet then he's writing something clearly in his wheelhouse because he once worked for the government. So instead of writing something for his little girl and younger readers. He's writting JUST for himself and making excuses.
This.
Being relatable and being aspirational are not mutually exclusive. You can't aspire to be someone you can't relate to on some level.
Oh my God I am gonna puke when you said "that's marvels deal".
When will you clowns realize marvel and dc interlap with writer 99 percent of the time? Why do you clowns make these general statements
It bugs me when people say WW doesn't have a rogues gallery. It's only because she hasn't had as much exposure outside of the comics. All the big JLers have had TV shows and cartoons. She hasn't.
But I do think her archenemy is and always will be Cheetah. Part of the appeal of Wonder Woman is seeing her relationships with other women, many of whom are antagonists. You don't see that anywhere else in a major, ongoing superhero comic book.
Her archenemy should be a scientist from the future...as you are...
@@uranuslad9855 omg I love you. 🤣
I know cheetah doesn't want to be saved but everytime I see her that's all I want. Veronica Cale can be the big villain for a while. Give me Barbara for like three issues.
I like Circe as her nemesis better
@@kail4997 I love Circe but she doesn't push merchandise the way Joker, Lex, or Cheetah do.
I always love how you make space for your viewers to form their own opinions, and the care with which you explore all sides of an issue fairly. I wish comic book writers could do the same. I would be interested in you dipping back into King's run after a year or so and telling us how you feel at that point.
I agree that Sasha is wonderful in how she approaches these potentially divisive subjects, but I wouldn't want writers generally trying to explore all sides fairly. Yes, empathy is an important tool for writers and seeing multiple characters' perspectives, but not trying to see all sides of a creative issue like "What makes a good Wonder Woman story?". Ultimately, good writing comes from a writer following their own muse and their own inspiration, and no great story is accepted by everyone.
Not all sides need to be treated fairly. Racisim, Theocraticism, Fascism, and Tyranny should never be considered valid thoughts.
indecisiveness in a story can easily stem from trying to explore all sides fairly. Most great stories come from an author exploring their own side of the story instead of trying to please everyone.
@@ProjektTakuobviously. Well said. If you get upset that a piece of art isn’t covering “your side” then you really need to stop being so fragile and narcissistic.
@@Lukecash2How many people push for fascism & tyranny? Haha
I think writers like Greg Rucka, George Perez, Gail Simone, and Phil Jimenez have really written her well as a compassionate ambassador of peace who is also a fierce warrior when her hand is forced. This juxtaposition is why I love their runs and how well-balanced her warrior and pacifist sides can be. This can be ruined quickly when fans and writers take out-of-context rare moments where Diana’s morality was pushed to the limits and pretend Diana is a vicious gladiator that seldom negotiates peace. WW #1 by Tom King had an interesting start that embraced her lore that I’m ready to see more of.
PS, Casually Comics, I’d love for you to do a solo video on KSD’s Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons! ❤️
what part of her lore did he embrace?because im not seeing any of that. king doesnt understand a thing about wondie
@@garycannon4644try reading what they said again. WW isn’t the warrior with sword and shield. She’s peaceful. It’s okay to change things, but when I read anything WW as a kid, she never had a sword and shield. She was peace and love.
@@Akkbar21 Wonder Woman hates killing in the past,since Max Lord incident back in the 2000's she was portrayed more and more like a bloodthirst and vicious warrior until Rebirth undone this. This book is awfful. King just cannot write a true super-hero book without your Cynical Dark and Edge desconstruction of DC classic characters.
@@EvandroACruz Diana was only portrayed as bloodthirsty in a few elseworlds and the New 52 Justice League. In her own book, she was reasonable and level headed. And I'm not seeing any deconstruction in this book.
Verisimilitude is a very helpful word for comic discussion. Helps criticize the world cohesion without necessarily throwing away the fantastical elements in it.
That is an excellent point. It was exactly this that immediately took me out of this. The laughably bad setup that went from 0-100. I am a huge espionage story fan and this is as clever and subtle as an anvil. The narrative to describe Wonder Woman was a 10 on the Tom King pretensiousness scale. If you don't buy into his ludicrious plot and world building then it is far too easy to pull the threads and unravel everything. Typical Tom King. Another good artist wasted on a bad story.
I watched Thinking Critical's rant. I then watched Blerd's video, where he basically gave the finger to half of the audience. I would like to say, I truly appreciate your middle ground approach to covering this comic. You do great work.
I haven't read this comic yet have you?
Is it any good?🤔
that guy is really odd. he seems like he's just dying to go full comicsgate at any moment. and thats from just watching a few minutes after reading this comment. TC is creepy aggrieved comic dude adjacent at best.
It’s always funny cause blerd is constantly looking for subscribers but also turning off half his audience. I too love Sasha’s middle ground takes
@@shawnboahene5231 But that's also the role of a critic. Sasha spends time in her essays like this clearly holding an opinion, yet trying to shape to meet both advocates and detractors of the work. I'll contrast with Roger Ebert -- one of the reasons I liked his reviews is that he tried to meet the material where it was coming from, and also tried to not apply too many of his internal biases, but usually landed firmly on an approach. And he wrote books about where, over the course of years, he'd re-assessed movies and come to a different conclusion. Or how he listened and changed on if video games could be art, somewhat. Him grappling with his opinions on a work openly and honestly help me better understand what I want from a work, than trying to do an A/B approach.
That's blerd for ya lol
Wonder Woman ain’t complicated. I might actually start a channel and make a video about this because it matters to me that much. George Perez understood it better than most. She’s an ambassador of peace. She’ll fight if needed, but she would rather connect with people. We need to ditch the Roman gladiator armor look which implies she came looking for a fight and go back to the suit that was given to her to wear as an olive branch to man’s world.
Perez constantly refers to her classic look as battle armour though. I still agree the militaristic look doesn't always give the best vibe.
I would hardly call a swimsuit based on a single country's flag to be an "olive branch to the world". Especially when said flag isn't even the one of her country.
@@cui8789 The original reason she wore it was because it represented the free world. An olive branch to that she’s here as an ally. Plus, America is not the only country with red white and blue on it. It’s just the most prominent one on the global stage.
@@ivansobubblehead it wasn’t Roman battle armor. It is armor, but the Roman gladiator look is different in message than what she wore before which looked more like a costume designed to convey ideals. Much like how even though captain America also wears armor, it’s primary goal is to express what he stands for
@@ivansobubblehead tbf she is an immortal goddess raised on an island of warriors.
Will we ever get all the women who've held the title of wonder woman and wonder girl in one place and time just having fun?
The good things about this comic (aside from the artwork) are Sarge Steel doing something, Diana not surrendering to the military and doing her throwing the tiara thing from pre-Crisis as well as talking to Steve Trevor and resuming her identity as Diana Prince, and the appearance of the Sovereign.
I appreciate seeing Diana use the tiara boomerang prominently. And I get trying to make a relic that's a dark counterpart to the lasso, but the execution just makes it come off as meh to me. Like something that won't get a lot of play once King leaves.
As a South American King's run already lost me. The man has always had stories that draw on his experience from his CIA days, and those can be really good (character's acting "out of character" aside), but his decision to give Wonder Woman, a hero who has fought gods all around the world, a a US-centric story is, I believe, totally missing the mark about what makes the character work.
To me, it'd feel like making a Fantastic Four comic in which the family stays in New York the entire time. I hope this is just his first arc and he opens his horizons as he goes along. That said, the fight scene narration was horrible, and, like you said, I hope this is either addressed directly, or it'll just show how little King understands of the character.
Never want anything to fail, least of all a character that needs an iconic run, but I don't really have my hopes up.
I totally agree. Every single Justice League member but Aquaman already leads with the United States, why can't Diana be more international?
No you are actual clown. Wonder woman whole thing is US centric. She functioned as world war 2 propaganda nazies. She should be fighting the government
@@apenasmaisumdiogo.7115because she is a US centric hero canonically
So to start things off positively, I think the art is absolutely gorgeous. It looks amazing and has some great action to it and the mystery of who the Blonde Amazon is and why she's going on this killing spree.
Now onto the gripes. While I do enjoy King's work, the first issue is as subtle as Artemis trying to smuggle Mistress into an airplane. It feels like I've read this type of story before from various other writers in the Big Two and the indies scene. On top of it, it seems like things escalated way too fast, and would have been better if Diana was in a race against time to find the Mystery Amazon, or else the US government would make its move due to growing tensions.
It might just also be the fact that I've heard a lot of what King is trying to say on a daily basis and would rather have the series be Diana go on this grad Odyssey of an adventure interacting with creatures, gods, and heroes from mythology. I'll give it my usual 3 issue try but at the moment the 1st Issue didn't grab me.
That would have been so much better, getting 'this' story like 6 issues in. My biggest point of confusion was just how many amazonians are just living in the US. They said the taskforce killed or deported over 300, but earlier it was stated the vast majority of amazonians had already left.
Now paradise island never looks massive to me so it sure feels like thousands and thousands of amazonians just living on US soil should be its own story in the first palce.
@@MisterKetch that actually raises a good point cause that’s only looking at the US rather than the world as a whole.
As 2nd gen American myself it also adds some questions to why there are so many Amazons in the US. If it was in the thousands then it might mean something is up at home which is causing them to immigrate. It would be a very interesting story to see why they’re leaving paradise island to set roots in a different area.
Who cares about subtlety. Enough with you clowns being upset by a raw left leaning message.
Lying lasso should've been silver.
Donna Troy has the silver lasso.
The lasso MO is a rip off of The Duke of Deception.
@@matthewlloyd5130 That's some valuable context. My thinking was silver tongue being associated with lying, but of course there's a silver lasso, haha
Thanks for the info all the same.
Honestly, this feels like the beginning of a Wonder Woman story that isn’t very interested in her or her world.
Diana has basically suffered from Reboot syndrome, While Clark and Bruce tend to keep stuff, Diana tends to almost start fresh from every reboot/rebrand. The recurring joke that every new Wonder Woman Writer wants to be the definitive Wonder Woman Writer or they only took the book to kill time or if you're John Byrne, used Diana as an excuse to write about the New Gods aka the book he wanted to do.
I love that the best thing they could come up with for Aquaman was "his fish"
That exemplifies the "talent" of Tom King
Thank you for your insights, Sasha. I don't care for the story you described so I won't be too worried about collecting it. Maybe down the road, sometime, maybe not. Sampere's art is quite eye-catching, though I think he makes certain characters' heads too small, including WW's. (I voiced this opinion on X/Twitter last week, and was pleased to learn that I wasn't the only one to feel this way.) To me, Wonder Woman is a fantasy (NOT mythology, or rather, not JUST mythology) character, and that's how creators need to treat her: unleashed, wild imagination. Purple healing rays, invisible jets, giant kangas, telepathic radios, and the like. Yes, her "cause," her "agenda," is about "real" things like peace, equality (or equity), and human rights, and those are the things she fights for, but I feel a lack of imagination has been plaguing her and her section of the DCU for quite a while now. For years, the DC/Marston Amazons were a peaceful, positive society where they would engage in battle only if necessary. Those Amazons would never "Attack." They had evolved over the centuries they had lived on their island. These warrior women could still "take care of business," but always preferred peace. They became so advanced that the firearms of Man's World were merely playthings to be used in their game of Bullets and Bracelets. Those are the Amazons I want to read about. That's the Wonder Woman I want to see.
I'm so glad someone understands how the Amazons are supposed to be. I feel like writers have relied too much on the warrior aspect of the Amazons forgetting that Themyscira was the Isle of Paradise, a place of peace for women who had been harmed. It would be so nice to see writers rely on the more community aspect of them rather than the battle ready aspects
I said this before elsewhere but the art is really good. Crisp and clear as well as detailed and leaving a lot of space for the artwork's colors.
I will say I like the art in this, and particularly Wonder Woman's design. She looks less cheesecake and more like this was a choice of some kind. Something vaguely practical, even though it really isn't. It's interesting.
I like the fact that superman is now the lone trinity member with an impractical design due to batman and WW's armor looks.
Although I do kinda miss her classic design.
@@ProjektTakuSuperman doesn’t need armor. He’s invincible. His suit is the blankets he was in as a baby.
@@Akkbar21 yeah, idk why some versions try to make it so armory.
@@ProjektTaku Honestly, I'm a sucker for the armory look. Injustice got me into it.
@@mehlessmidori602 fair, I guess it would make sense Superman needs armor so that it can withstand whatever hits him, I just don't like injustices bulky approach. If you toned it down it'd be a pretty fantastic superman redesign, much better than the new 52's.
It took a lot of work to fix Wally West after Tom King. I will be sitting this one out until they pull the plug and lure a Rucka level Titan in to rehabilitate Diana after King leaves her in tatters.
It’s also a misnomer that Themyscira was predominantly a warrior culture. They are warriors but not a warrior culture. Thor comes from a warrior culture. The Amazonian people are scientists, artists, athletes, etc. They’re culture is defined by self improvement and being the best version of yourself, not fighting.
The purple ray needs to make a comeback that'd be a fun way to dive back into the scientist element of the island.
@@CasuallyComicsYES!
8:08 The Cloonrad run of Wonder Woman was initially interesting because of Diana meeting Norse gods until she decided to return to Earth to live her life, deal with forgotten Golden and Silver Age adventures (i.e. Milk Company for Golden Age and Image Maker for Silver Age), Trial of the Amazons and Revenge of the Gods being a thing, and ending with Diana in a sleep coma in the 800th issue and her waking up to continue to be active as a superhero. Also, her meeting Yara Flor twice and barely interacting with her family.
All I'll say on the matter is that to me, Diana operates in a similar space to Percy Jackson, but probably an inverse - someone who lives in the world of gods and monsters, where the myths and legends is very much a reality to her rather than a historical curiosity, but the 21st century is the weird world, and trying to balance that.
Also, balancing the roles as a princess and ambassador, and someone who's fundamentally from and representative of a bronze Age warrior culture.
Wonder woman deos not come from bronze age warrior culture
I say both when it comes to Rogues.
Lol Biker WW ftw
The Amalgam version in 'Bullets and Bracelets' is my fav 😊
The 90's outfit was good stuff
9:50
Leaving aside what people think about Kanigher's stories about Wonder Woman, he had a fundamental role in DC's story, as he was the man behind the creation of very iconic and awesome characters like Black Canary, Sgt. Rock, Poison Ivy and Ragman. He truly deserves to be remembered in a positive light
Kanigher was a fantastic writer when he cared about the character and wanted to do great things with them. He wrote some of the best war stories DC ever did and he was a great writer, but..
He was a terrible Wonder Woman writer and clearly phoned it in. He was just copying what was done in Superman at the time and it shows. It's so badly written, rushed, and none of Kanigher's fantastic abilities or details. He's may have been one of the longest and one of the first WW writers to just.. phone it in, but he certainly wasn't the last and he certainly wasn't one that openly hated Wonder Woman as several more recent writers have.. and his stamp on Wonder Woman is still felt in 2023..
Bro really just called RAGMAN very iconic.
@@ProjektTaku
He's pretty cool, actually. Shame he didn't get enough recognition over the years
@@TetsuShima yeah, I know, its just that there's a difference between cool and iconic.
You're assuming he isn't because people criticized his Wonder Woman stories?
What I like about King is that when he wants to investigate a topic, he does so so with complexity. When he really understands what he wants to write, he writes it very well. Just think about Miracle Man, Strange Adventures, and Human Target. All really good books, that had one central theme and strong narrative.
Where King is weak is understanding characters. Between Strange Adventures and Mister Miracle the characters are complex but clearly are KING's VERSIONs of them. He's not making a Mister Miracle comic, as much as he is writing another character who also happens to be that character. This showed when he wrote Batman as a consistently grumpy guy with darkness in him-- the most shallow and uninteresting version of bruce.
Here I'm scared for Diana. Her character is distinct and complex. Both things that King is not great with dealing with in terms of established characters. If we are lucky, we are going to get a complex character who happens to be called Diana Prince and Wonder woman. At worst, we are going to get King's shallow impression of who diana is.
This is honestly one of the most insightful critiques on Tom King’s work I’ve seen, props to you for that.
But yeah, I 100% agree with basically everything you said here - King is a very hit-or-miss writer precisely because of his emphasis on style/form over characterization. He’s the kind of writer who adheres to a very specific set of tools, but those tools aren’t always the ones that fit the task he’s been assigned - when they do, you get a masterpiece, and when they don’t, you get something average at best and a genuine garbage fire at worst. I mostly enjoyed the first issue of his Wonder Woman, but it’s too early for me to tell if he’ll stick the landing or not, so for now I’ll keep reading it and keep my fingers crossed.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 yeah true. But to be fair to him, most writers have a voice. The issue with writing in comics is that voice cannot be heard when writing established characters. I mean, plenty of writers have distinct types of characters they like writing or using, or distinct types of critique they love to implement. The sad truth is in comics, when you got big name legacy characters you're dancing on a tight rope when it comes to writing with voice.
The Jake Skywalker effect.
Creative wants to tell their story, character(s) don't fit their story, creative changes character(s) into someone(s) else to work for their story.
He didn’t write Heroes in Crisis very well. He’s definitely there to write what he wants and the characters may or may not actually fit.
His Strange Adventures was absolutely awful.
I think this would have been a good storyline for The Question Renee Montoya...It doesn't really feel like a storyline for Wonder Woman
Your mature measured takes are always appreciated. You are a Wonder Woman.❤
I think this is the first era in comics where I'm disinclined to buy from specifc comics authors, not because of how they write or even their politics, but because of how they've acted in the real world.
That suggests to me that you haven't been paying enough attention to the fan press.
@@Joesph238 you dont remember how he tried to smear jai lee?
@@garycannon4644whom
King looks at Wonder Woman as someone who berates them for Diana never sees herself as perfect, but knows that strife cannot be stopped with words alone. It's sad to me that the Masters who have captured the essence of Wonder Woman stories and made them so great are not working on them now.😢
Based on his past works, I'd have been impressed if he'd simply managed to write Sgt. Steel in character. I do not recognize this government agent, and I've read stories featuring him before. Of course, this is the man who engineered a whole story around turning Adam Strange into a war criminal. I'm seriously worried about where this book is going, and we're only a single issue into the run.
@@SingularityOrbit Kings Adam Strange Book was Black Label for a good reason: it's meant to be an examination of the difference between how a war hero is created by propaganda and what it actually takes to win a war.
It also highlights how our fiction often reflects false beliefs of society. Adam Strange is a direct descendant of the White Colonial Savior and American Exceptionalism. Hence intertwining the quotes of Adam Strange into the story.
Since King was in war as a CIA agent, he does have insight into this sort of thing. Obviously exploring that version cannot be made canon to an IP.
Tom King? Isn't that the guy who wrote "and then Catwoman knocks out all The Flash family with a kick" and made people draw it
Nothing can make me groan faster than Sasha saying "Tom King"
What fresh hell has the company come up with today?
“Writers who use subtext are cowards” - famous horror author Garth Marengi
Kinda funny they would get Supes to comment and not show him since he’s even more a foreigner than Amazons. At least they come from Earth lol
"Aquaman, his fish" - LOL, it is just impossible to describe Aquaman and make him sound cool.
Lol I laughed out loud at that part, it's such a dramatic statement and then just bam "his fish".
“Aquaman, his fish.”
My first impressions so far is that I'm not yet sold on this direction for Diana. I get focusing on her being inspiring figure and something a lot of young woman aspire to, but the lack of subtlety in the storytelling is offputting. It worries me because i feel like Diana's character needs some of that subtlety especially if they're going for a peace seeking paragon route. Maybe its the choice of narrator that Im not sure works. But the art is phenomenal, main reason i am reading it.
Oh shut up with your subtlety crap. This is the real world. It isn't subtle.
I think my problem with Wonder Woman is simply that she lacks cohesion throughout her history.
With Superman and Batman you had creators building onto what's come before and because of that one can draw a relatively straight line from their intial appearences until today and still be able to recognize those characters. Wonder Woman however has been massively retooled over the decades making it much more difficutl to pin her down.
And Tom King isn't helping here at all. An espionage thriller seems to be one of the most incompatible stories one could do with her, since those usually don't gove much room, if any, for her character core of wanting to foster understanding between people.
The character gets yanked all over the place to the point where DC might aswell declare every other run if not every other issue to be an elseworlds.
What Wonder Woman would need is an EXTREMLY basic run where she just has adventures involding her traditional villains and greek mythology. Literally what Perez did and it worked fairly well to the point that basicly all adaptations draw from it.
I'm also still at a loss about the renumbering. Like... why?! Nothing about this story appears to require any reboot or reset of any kind in order to work. Same with The Flash. Why?
The whole Dawn of DC thing is absurd to me because they just slap a new name on the same old problem riddled thing. As far as I'm concerned this is all still the New52.
The thing that people gloss over is that from the beginning Steve Trevor has been an 'intelligence officer'. That means espionage.
Time and time again I heard that the renumbering is kinda a scam to fool people and collectors into buying these books
@@Superaqualad5459 Geoff Johns is probably the worst person for taking care of continuity because he just considers everything to be in canon including the bad stuff that was thrown out of continuity for a reason.
He was the driving force behind bringing back the multiverse even tho it was destroyes to make the comics less confusing. He's not a man of good decisions that's for sure.
I totally agree, instead of building new and engaging stories with Wonder Woman's rich history and connection with greek mythology, they keep trying to reinvent the wheel and make "the" definitive interpretation, even though classics seldom are written to be classics.
This video got me thinking that Amanda Waller could really be a fantastic villain for Wonder Woman if handled right.
Where Diana is an honorable warrior, Waller uses dirty tactics. There could be a fun exploration of how these two characters have opposing ideologies on how to help mankind, would be pretty interesting. Also Waller could form a task force like the Suicide Squad that she needs to fight (one that could pose a threat to her)
I would love a video discussing why and when the Amazons decided to send some of their other peeps to America. I haven't read Wonder Woman since the 80s, so I'm a little confused by the premise.
@18:49 I'm imagining everybody stopping in their tracks after the expletive, just like in "Harley Quinn" when Doctor Psycho called her a @#$%! 😄
From my community post: “I don’t necessarily think Wonder Woman is hard to write. There have been some really successful iterations, George Perez, Greg Rucka (twice), Gail Simone and William Messner-Leobs for example. I don’t think King went into this with the right frame of mind plus his track record for deconstructing DC characters unnecessarily. His take even perhaps without the intention is misogynist & criminalising the Amazon’s is such a tired trope. What I think is, like many male writers who take on Diana they don’t know what to do with the WW mythos & especially are challenged writing large groups of female characters so it’s easier to take the Amazons out & reduce Diana to a singular character (Brian Azzerello & Denny O’Neil are examples of this trope). I was angry for much of issue #1 but will admit to being intrigued by the “secret” King at the end. That said I’m a little more Zen than I was reading Azzerello’s revisionist take on Diana than King as I’ve learned with comics “this to shall pass”. 🧘🏼♂️”
TBH the sovereign feels like they could have just resurrected the White Magician into the modern era 🤷
I found the premise and dialogue particularly appalling. I have stuck with WW since childhood, through the best and worst of the character, but this was a bridge too far. It's as if the writing took Dr. Psycho's misogyny and dialed it up to 11. I'll be waiting for this to pass, because I've got no interest in suffering through it.
What's the realistic place to draw inspiration from to write a large group of heroic women? The counterpart of male draft, prostitutes like Iron town in Princess Mononoke? College students taking more and more space in the cafeteria, telling each other "you CAN sit with us"?
@@ivansobubblehead Gives me more a Duke of Deception vibe.
@@ravenwilder4099 The lie part, maybe, but the White Magician claims he was involved with the birth of America, so the "secretly involved with American politics through magical means" reminds me of him.
When he said his daughter dressed up as wonder woman, not gonna lie, that hit straight in the chest
I really enjoyed this but it's very divisive and I can totally see how someone may not
Thanks for this. I’m a huge Wonder Woman fan but I didn’t particularly enjoy this issue very much. I guess I’m just an old school simpleton. My favorite was a 23 issue run of WONDER WOMAN: AGENT OF PEACE. They were short, simple and action packed. Probably marketed to a younger audience but I enjoyed them anyway.
I side with J. R.R. Tolkien on allegories. Applicability is infinitely better than allegory.
As always great video with very nuance takes. I wish the comic itself could have been similar, but oh well.
I personally plan on giving King's run two more issues to hopefully find it's footing. But as it's stands now nothing particularly interesting beyond the surface level thing's like the art being pretty
I never understand the need to put down other heroes in order to prop up the one you're writing. Black Canary is about as rebellious as it comes, she's literally been defined lately as ground level punk fighting against the establishment. Hell, her voice is used to sing, which is literally an artform. Perhaps the best example to describe what they seem to be solely attributing to Diana, which is kinda baffling. To me if you want to describe WW as different in the context of America, you don't have to diminish her role as a fighter. To me Diana has always been about truth first and foremost. Batman is justice, Superman is hope, but Diana is about understanding. She's an outsider through and through, and as a result is able to approach any element of humanity from a fresh perspective. And her struggle as a character is being able to understand even the negatives of the world without condemning them. That's the strength of the lasso, if she encounters someone that calls her a bitch, she can use it to know what they truly think and understand why they'd resort to that kind of language. But in this context when you present someone as just being that evil man here to represent how America and sexism is bad, her choosing to crush his fist feels like something any female hero could do. I can see Canary doing that, Supergirl, Starfire, Batwoman, it's not exactly a strong stand out moment so much as it's kinda played out and safe. And for her to have forgiveness and understanding without sacrificing her ground or refusing to fight is in itself a bold concept and something that I feel can be inspiring for anyone. Hell it's a good reason Dr. Psycho could be her main antagonist, they both refuse to back down when it comes to the battle of beliefs. Psycho uses illusions and manipulation to get what he wants, Diana uses truth regardless of if it's pleasant or ugly. It feels like the elements are there, and trying to say that they aren't and that you need to set the standard by going a different direction feels less like taking up a challenge and more overstating your importance. At least in my opinion, I don't know Tom King very well outside some of his work.
Here's a problem I have with so many writers I hear speaking and a phrase they use. They want to write a "character defining run". They want the glory before the story is even told. The great stories of characters are great often because of how time was good to them. A writer had a good story to tell and told it. Whenever I hear a writer is going to tell a character defining story, it's likely they are going to make some kind of 180 on the character to make it stand out, then the either reset to status quo in the end, or let the next writer retcon the crap they pulled. Just tell a good story! If people like it, if it's well told, then perhaps it will go down as character defining. Also, Tom King is an idiot. I avoid anything he writes now because aside from his okay run on Vision, what he writes turn to crap pretty fast. Which is sad because I'd like to get back into reading Wonder Woman but not while he's writing it.
Me I'm just plain sick of seeing Tom King on a DC book every time I turn around.
I mean, I thought Mr. Miracle and Woman of Tomorrow were pretty good. But like, that’s just my opinion - I don’t have any beef with you for not liking King’s work. I respect your opinion.
I'm not completely disagreeing with you but there are plenty of great superhero comics written with the intention of making it definitive for the character. Plenty of failures too, but for instance whenever John Byrne started a book with a classic character his intention was always to make a lasting impact on that character. All-Star Superman, Dark Knight Returns, Ultimate Spider-man, they all knew what the potential impact was right from the beginning. Wonder Woman at the moment doesn't have anything close to an iconic story in the same way as DKR or even an Alan Moore Superman issue (not talking overall quality, just broad recognizability) so maybe it's fine that people are putting in the effort for WW. Not saying that Tom King can actually pull it off but I think it's fine if that's his intention.
Yeah, everyone wants to "leave their mark" on a character instead of just writing a good story. They're all trying to write the next _Sandman_ or _Batman: Year One_ or _Watchmen._ But when celebrated writers like Miller, Moore, Gaiman, Perez, Morrison, etc. wrote their comics, they weren't thinking "I'm going to write the next blah blah blah." They were thinking "I'm going to write something compelling."
@@spandytube A couple of thoughts on these examples. All-Star Superman and TDKR were both written as "last stories" -- the ends of those characters' stories -- explicitly not to lock in the way their stories ended, but to create legends of their endings. The creators both felt that legendary heroes became more clearly legendary if they had a final tale, even if everyone was free to ignore it. USM, meanwhile, was the beginning of an alternate universe take on Spidey meant to evoke the original high-school era of Peter's life. The key here is that all three stories were created to be out of continuity with the characters' histories or destinies in their own books, so the writers were free to do whatever they liked without fear of causing problems. As for Byrne, he approached all of his work with respect for the characters' personalities as shown in prior comics. His occasionally . . . let's say peculiar . . . story themes were his own, but at least the characters still spoke in their own voices.
I think the problem a lot of readers are having is the way that King's own ideas tend to eclipse both the story style of the characters and their actual personalities. As a comparison, you can send Sherlock Holmes to an alien planet as a bizarre fish-out-of-water story, to see how his methods handle a strange new environment. You can have Holmes as a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations, as an alternative take on his classic obsessions (that's the BBC Sherlock approach). If you send a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations to an alien planet, you're not even close to telling a Sherlock Holmes story anymore. That's what Tom King's writing feels like sometimes. It's going to be up to him to prove that he can turn a self-serious, grim political thriller starring warrior women into a Wonder Woman story.
Diana going up against societal structures does make sense given she grew up in a completely different type of society but within a status quo that tries to mirror the real world she can't really cause the change she might be fighting for so I think it would definitely make sense for it to be an elseworld.
This is probably why it had to fall back on having one bad guy be the cause of all the bad stuff that's going on and I can't really see that it's going to be a satisfying conclusion to have Diana beat the Sovereign because one secret bad guy just doesn't fit within the allegory as the cause of the problem and she'll go back to living in a world that mirrors ours where the problems she fought continue on.
I love stories that explore Diana's inherent otherness due to just how different her society is. This however, so far, is not that. It'll be interesting to see how this arc goes.
As far as I can recall, Sarge Steel (formerly of Charlton) had his first DC appearance in "Legends" in 1987, the same series that introduced the Waller, so he is a contemporary of here, in that sense, and pre-dates her in others. Curiously, he was Diana's boss at the DEO during the Gail Simone run. Traditionally, he's a good guy. Using Steel, rather than the Wall, though... Not only is his genitalia is on the outside, but he's also Caucasian. Neither is true for Waller. Maybe it's part of the point King is trying to make. As you said, there's no subtlety.
With all due respect, I feel like, in our current political climate, we’re well past the time for subtlety. If you want to break down a concrete wall, you wouldn’t use a scalpel as your first choice.
So King turned Sgt, Steel in a bad guy in this book.Another character assassination of a DC character.
@@EvandroACruz Yeah, I bet the other two Sgt. Steel fans are pissed
@@EvandroACruz He's a Charlton character, and DC has had it in for them since 2004.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076
As the other Sarge Steel fan, I'm not pissed, just mystified. Why take a character with established heroic characteristics and turn him into an overt bad guy? Could have just created a new character to fit the bill. I'm sure few tears will be spilled over the Sarge's heel turn, but it's a pattern in King's work I'm tired of.
I must say. I am a more new WW fan, I’ve recently gotten really into her and reading the Perez and Messner-Loebs stuff and I actually picked up WW #1 yesterday. So take my stance with a grain of salt as I may not have the best full knowledge of the character yet but I personally loved the issue. Also as a Tom King super fan, I loved the tone, the art was amazing, it Kept me interested and invested throughout, it was a good single issue I can reread many times. Again, as a newer WW fan my opinion my not be the strongest but I really liked the depiction of Diana, despite understanding that she feels Detached from the story itself, but I really vibe with it, she feels strong and has a impressive Aura, I loved the set up and her big reveal moment. I struggle to articulate myself well (ESPECIALLY on a UA-cam comment) so forgive me if what I say doesn’t make much sense, my brain is very slow and Swiss cheese at times. But essentially I really liked it and I will definitely check out more of the run
Lost me at “as a Tom King super fan” lol
@@deepfriedokra probably being a little over dramatic in the wording but just as someone who really loves his work (that I’ve read)
I think your opinions are valid given your low level of exposure with WW. Sometimes a first encounter with something may seem fantastic, until you gain more experience to look back and really analyse it, at which point you may stick with your original opinion or discard it. As said in the video, there are several points that a reader will either accept what the comic is presenting to them or check out entirely. If you managed to pass all those checks and consider it a good experience then that's fine. There have been times I have disliked something popular or liked something that is hated as well. The only thing that can ever change your opinion is time, experiencing other comparable media and reflection, but you're not necessarily obligated to do that when it comes to a casual hobby, no matter what some enthusiasts may say. Still, I would recommend checking out other WW comics and comparing them to King's as a fun exercise if you really want to.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I do! I never want to live in a echo chamber and I want to read the Azzerello and Rucka stuff too. I also heart Historia was good and continue the runs I’m currently reading. So don’t worry. I won’t just go, “I like this, so I’ll never read that”
If you're getting into Wonder Woman, i recommend u read both of Greg Rucka's runs on the character.
Here is my timeline of the Earth-Two/New Earth/Prime Earth Wonder Woman Family.
1938: The Golden Age begins.
1940: The JSA was formed.
1941: Steve Trevor crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing Diana to arrive on Man’s World, make her debut as the first Wonder Woman, and take on the identity of Diana Prince in DC. Helena Kosmotos made her debut as the first Fury. The Seven Soldiers of Victory, All-Star Squadron, and Freedom Fighters were formed, and the Freedom Fighters traveled to Earth-X.
1942: Diana joined the JSA. The Young All-Stars were formed before they eventually became part of the All-Star Squadron.
1948: The Seven Soldiers of Victory were scattered throughout time.
1951: The JSA disbanded.
1953: Diana traveled to Earth-59 and teamed up with the Earth-59 Wonder Woman to defeat Duke Dazam.
1956: The Silver Age begins.
1961: Flash of Two Worlds.
1962: Diana and Steve Trevor were married.
1963: The JSA came out of retirement and teamed up with the Earth-One JLA to defeat the Crime Champions. Hector Hall was born.
1964: Hippolyta “Lyta” Trevor, the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor, was born.
1970: The Bronze Age begins.
1972: The JSA and Earth-One JLA rescued the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
1973: The Earth-X Freedom Fighters were teamed up with the JSA and the Earth-One JLA.
1976: The JSA, Earth-One JLA, and Earth-S Squadron of Justice team up to defeat Earth-S King Kull.
1981: Judgment in Infinity.
1982: Diana revealed her identity as the first Wonder Woman to the world. Beautiful Dreamer, Death Unto Thee. Earth-One Diana Wonder Woman meets Lyta Trevor. Lyta Trevor made her debut as the second Fury, and Hector Hall made his debut as the Silver Scarab. Infinity Inc. was formed.
1984: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were engaged.
1985: Crisis On Infinite Earths. Diana and Steve Trevor arrive on Mount Olympus, causing Lyta Trevor to graduate as the second Wonder Woman. The JSA was sent to Limbo.
1986: Legends.
1987: Hector Hall was killed, resurrected, and graduated as the second Sandman. Millennium.
1988: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were married. Infinity Inc. was disbanded. Cosmic Odyssey. Invasion!
1989: Hector Hall was killed again.
1990: Daniel Hall was born.
1991: War of the Gods. Armageddon 2001.
1992: Eclipso: The Darkness Within. The JSA returned from Limbo.
1993: Bloodlines.
1994: Zero Hour. The JSA disbanded.
1995: Underworld Unleashed. Daniel Hall made his debut as the third Sandman.
1996: The Final Night.
1997: Genesis.
1998: DC One Million.
1999: The JSA was reformed again. Hector Hall was resurrected, graduated as the fifth Doctor Fate, and joined the JSA along with Lyta Trevor. Day of Judgement.
2001: Our Worlds At War.
2004: Identity Crisis.
2005: Infinite Crisis. Hippolyta Trevor and Hector Hall disappeared.
2006: Diana and Steve Trevor died. 52.
2007: One Year Later.
2008: Final Crisis.
2009: The JSA All-Stars were formed. The Titans disbanded again. Blackest Night.
2010: Brightest Day. The JSA All-Stars disbanded to join the JSA.
2011: Flashpoint.
2013: Forever Evil. Trinity War.
2014: The Multiversity. Trinity of Sin.
2015: Convergence. DCYou. Darkseid War.
2016: DC Rebirth.
2017: Dark Nights: Metal.
2020: Dark Nights: Death Metal. Endless Winter.
2021: Infinite Frontier. The Lost Children (renamed the Young Society) returned.
2022: Dark Crisis. Lazarus Planet.
2023: Dawn of DC. Knight Terrors.
2025: Time Crisis.
2030: Secret Crisis.
I would love to see you do a deep dive on something like Omega Men, which to me feels like the most King book in terms of not having to bend himself to the magnitude of the character.
I passed this up last week, but now I'm going to pick it up. Thanks for the review.
That's awesome! More people to talk about Wonder Woman with :)
1:24 comicpop was not a fan of Tom King and critiqued his work. But with the help of his wife now they are good friends and he shills for Tom's work hard now
This is the first I've heard of a writer dismantling Wonder Woman's legacy. That would be great to learn about
R.I.P. Arleen Sorkin .
Thanks for covering this in a balanced way. I understand why King is polarizing, but I tend to like his writing (I thought the last issue of Danger Street was hilarious). I mostly view his work as elseworlds stories so I get nervous when he's put on main titles. Sampere's art is awesome though so I'm here for it at least as long as he is!
I feel I must disagree with the "Why not just use Waller, highlight some female villains." in part because King is clearly focusing on patriarchal ideals within the concept of warriors/war/soldiers via modern America (which is so up his alley it's got his name on the alleyway sign). But also that to my knowledge/perception Wonder Woman has twice as many female villains as male ones. Veronica Cale, Dr Cyber, Silver Swan, Circe, Cheetah...I know there's more vs Dr Psycho, Ares and arguably Maxwell Lord. I think it's quite smart to bring in a forgotten character, a man with a literal iron fist to represent American Military Industrial Complex & have WW crush it. It's very Tom King. But as Tom King things go...seems like a solid first issue. Even though it highlights his fear of writing WW by...not really writing WW.
That's why Waller would work because she's using other super powered people to basically commit war crimes for he US government. Waller/Suicide Squad vs WW would be a good arc and still do what Tom King likes to do
That "Oh Lawd" meme was right on time, I wouldn't be surprised if you had cornrows under that wig lol anyway, you're definitely invited to the cookout lol
I think Vandal Savage could be great archnemesis for Wonder Women. Young Justice has proven that caveman has the potential to be up there with the likes of Lex and Batman's entire rogues gallery. Vandal was involved in WW2, fought the JSA and has been aiding conquerors for centuries so the Amazons must have been aware of him some time in the past. So yeah, the divine ambassador for peace and eternal warlord, that's my pitch.
Merciful Minerva but yes! Diana's core villain IS Dr Cyber. There was plenty that Denny O'Neil didn't like about his own run on WW, but his arch nemeses are hard to beat!
Hi ! Just wanted you to know you are one of my favorite channel on UA-cam ^^ Every video is so well researched and full of nuance. You paint a beautiful portrait everytime and I wish you the best !
not getting the "bye" with the wave at the end of this one was jarring 😂
Thank-you for a great video and creating a space to discuss comics, greatly appreciated. You made some great points and I was very inspired to comment. Writing Wonder Woman isn't difficult, and I agree with another commenter that her basic character is not complicated. The fact tom has already made such an incredibly immature statement about taking George Perez's comment so personal and challenging, is a grossly SAD red flag about the basic white/colonist man's alarming DEFICIENCY. It's clear any writer having to kill off Amazons in their first issue's run, does not have the respect or basic creative ability to even be allowed the position of getting anywhere near a character, especially Wonder Woman. The first issue was a total projection of who tom is as a powerful woman, what a tragic MESS. The outfit given to Wonder Woman's daughter should have been the costume given to Wonder Woman, to say the least, really, it's past time for an updated and respectful outfit.
"aquaman, his fish" killed me for some reason
I'm hoping that Lasso of Lies comes from Eris in some way. I really like her as an anti-Wonder Woman, and having her use a lasso like that to manipulate the world (especially if she used it past America, maybe passing it down from one conquering superpower to the next as a more powerful "golden apple") could be a lot of fun.
That'd be a great idea, it fits like a glove
I have persistently purchased Wonder Woman comics for nearly 30 years (through the good and bad)… but King taking over the writing chores finally convinced me to drop the title.
I dislike his character-assassinating, ultra-depressive style that much.
Also, I've already read a DC Comic that covered a "secret origin of America." John Ostrander's Spectre run went with the Founding Fathers having a secret ceremony which created a ghostly avatar for the United States... which went on to bevome Uncle Sam. The ending was a little hokey, but it looked at America as flawed but optimistic. There's worse stories and hot takes on America than that.
"There is no subtlety to be found here at all..." 🤣😅🤣😅
Yup. That about sums King's oeuvre up.
I feel like DC needs to start using the entire continuity of their characters histiry now. The aftermath of Dark Knights Death Metal should have both herors and villiabs and the workd making all sorts of new choices
Not with the egos of some of these writers, they have canon right in front of them to make it kinda easy and they want the hardest way knowing people aren't gonna vibe with it. Hell, Dark Knights Death Metal in hindsight was so bad
Your Background made me think JSA met the Minions
Never underestimate Kings' ability to ruin any character he touches. He seems to hate every comic character he writes. He shouldn't worry about getting a book right, he has never gotten one single book right.
Here is my timeline of the Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth Wonder Woman Family.
63 Years Ago (1931): Diana and Nubia of Paradise Island were born from clay. Nubia was kidnapped by Mars.
50 Years Ago (1944): Diana made her debut as the first Wonder Girl.
46 Years Ago (1948): Donna Hinckley, the daughter of Dorothy Hinckley, was born in Newport News, Virginia before she was adopted by Fay and Carl Stacey.
44 Years Ago (1950): Carl Stacey was killed, causing Fay Stacy to give up Donna Hinckley. Steve Trevor crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing Diana to arrive on Man’s World, graduate as the first Wonder Woman, and take on the identity of Diana Prince in DC. Diana saved Donna Hickley from a burning apartment building, causing [Donna] to be sent to Paradise Island to be raised by Queen Hippolyta.
38 Years Ago (1956): The Silver Age begins.
37 Years Ago (1957 to 1958): Diana traveled to Dimension X and met her counterpart.
36 Years Ago (1959): The JLA was formed.
34 Years Ago (1961): Flash of Two Worlds.
33 Years Ago (1962 to 1966): The Doom Patrol was formed. The Earth-Two JSA came out of retirement and teamed up with the JLA to defeat the Crime Champions. Donna Hinckley made her debut as the second Wonder Girl. The first-generation Teen Titans were formed. Cassie Sandsmark was born.
32 Years Ago (1967 to 1969): Wonder Woman’s Last Battle. Paradise Island disappeared after Diana gave up her powers, causing Diana to leave the JLA and move to NYC. Steve Trevor was killed by Doctor Cyber. Donna Hinckley took on the identity of Donna Troy and moved to Greenwich Village, NYC.
31 Years Ago (1970 to 1972): The JLA and Earth-Two JSA rescued the Earth-Two Seven Soldiers of Victory. Paradise Island reappeared, causing Diana to regain her powers and meet Nubia. The first-generation Teen Titans disbanded.
30 Years Ago (1973 to 1974): The Earth-X Freedom Fighters teamed up with the JLA and the Earth-Two JSA. Nubia moved back to Paradise Island. Kara Zor-El Supergirl was briefly adopted by Queen Hippolyta. The Twelve Labors. Diana rejoins the JLA.
29 Years Ago (1975 to 1976): Eros, the uncle of Diana, took possession of Steve Trevor and took on the identity of Steve Howard. The JLA, Earth-Two JSA, and Earth-S Squadron of Justice team up to defeat Earth-S King Kull. The first-generation Teen Titans were reformed.
28 Years Ago (1978 to 1983): The first-generation Teen Titans disbanded again. Steve Howard was killed, causing Eros’ essence to be released. Diana has her first team-up with Donna Hinckley to defeat Headmaster Mind. Orana of Paradise Island made her debut as the second Wonder Woman before she died. The Steve Trevor of Earth-270 crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing all of Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth to forget about the death of Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth Steve Trevor and Diana to move back to DC. The New Teen Titans were formed. Judgment in Infinity. Beautiful Dreamer, Death Unto Thee. Diana traveled to Earth-Two and met Lyta Trevor, the daughter of the Earth-Two Diana and Steve Trevor. The Outsiders were formed. Donna Hinckley learned of her origins.
27 Years Ago (1984): Donna Troy and Terry Long were married. The JLA disbands to form the JLDetroit. The Steve Trevor of Earth-270 and Eros sacrificed their essence to resurrect the Earth-One/New Earth/Prime Earth Steve Trevor.
26 Years Ago (1985): Crisis On Infinite Earths. Steve Trevor learned Diana’s identity as the first Wonder Woman, causing them to get married before Diana was killed by the Anti-Monitor. Nubia arrived on Man’s World and made her debut as the third Wonder Woman.
25 Years Ago (1986): Gods and Mortals. Legends. The JLDetroit disbanded. The JLI was formed. Diana was resurrected with her memories intact, revealed her identity to the world, and moved to Boston with Steve Trevor.
24 Years Ago (1987): Challenge of the Gods. Millennium. The New Guardians were formed.
23 Years Ago (1988): Yara Flor was born. The New Teen Titans graduated as the New Titans. Donna Hinckley graduated as Troia. Cosmic Odyssey. The JLE was formed. Invasion!
22 Years Ago (1989): Diana discovered the Amazons of the Bana-Mighdall. The JLI graduated as the JLAmerica.
21 Years Ago (1990 to 1992): War of the Gods. Armageddon 2001. Operation Cheetah. Robbie Long was born. Eclipso: The Darkness Within. The JLE was reformed as the JLI.
20 Years Ago (1993 to 1994): The JLTF was formed. Bloodlines. Hippolyta Milton, the daughter of Circe and Ares, was born. Donna Hinckley graduated as a Darkstar. Zero Hour. The JLI disbanded. The Contest. Artemis of the Bana-Mighdall made her debut as the fourth Wonder Woman. Poison, Claws, and Death! Extreme Justice was formed.
19 Years Ago (1995 to 1996): Joker’s Holiday. Artemis was killed, causing Diana to reclaim her mantle as Wonder Woman. Second Genesis. Diana and Steve Trevor moved to Gateway City. Donna Hinckley and Terry Long were divorced. Underworld Unleashed. Lifelines. The New Titans, JLAmerica, JLTF, and Extreme Justice disband. The second-generation Teen Titans were formed. Lizzie Trevor, daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor, was born. Artemis made her debut as Requiem and was resurrected. Cassie Sandsmark made her debut as the third Wonder Girl. The Final Night. The Men Who Moved the World. The JLA was reformed.
18 Years Ago (1997 to 1998): Diana was killed. Genesis. Diana graduated as the Goddess of Truth, causing Queen Hippolyta to make her debut as the fifth Wonder Woman. The second-generation Teen Titans disbanded. Young Justice was formed. Diana returned to the role as the second Wonder Woman. DC One Million. Trinity. Donna Hinckley graduated as Donna Troy.
17 Years Ago (1999): The Titans were formed. Devastation. Godwar. Day of Judgement. The Pandora Virus.
16 Years Ago (2000): Three Hearts. Devastation Returns. A Piece of You. God Complex. Gods of Gotham.
15 Years Ago (2001): Paradise Island Lost. Our Worlds At War. Cassie Sandsmark revealed her identity to the world. Queen Hippolyta was killed. The Witch and the Warrior.
14 Years Ago (2002 to 2003): Land of the Lost. Cassie Sandsmark forms a romantic relationship with Conner Kent Superboy. Trevor Barnes made his debut as the first Wonder Boy. The Game of the Gods. Diana, Steve Trevor, and Lizzie Trevor moved to NYC. The Titans and Young Justice disbanded to form the first-generation Young Titans. Down to Earth.
13 Years Ago (2004): Bitter Pills. Identity Crisis. Stoned.
12 Years Ago (2005 to 2006): Counting Coup. The Bronze Doors. Cassie Sandsmark learns that she is the daughter of Zeus. Marathon. Infinite Crisis. Paradise Island disappears again. Hippolyta Milton was kidnapped and captured by Ares. The JLA disbands again. 52.
11 Years Ago (2007): Diana, Steve Trevor, and Lizzie Trevor moved to DC. Donna Troy made her debut as the sixth Wonder Woman. One Year Later. Who is Wonder Woman? The JLA reformed again. Love and Murder. Paradise Island returned again. Queen Hippolyta was resurrected. The Titans reform again. The Circle.
10 Years Ago (2008 to 2011): Expatriate. Ends of the Earth. Final Crisis. Rise of the Olympian. Birds of Paradise. Warkiller. The Titans disbanded again. Blackest Night. A Murder of Crows. Brightest Day. Wrath of the Silver Serpent. The Odyssey. Flashpoint. Cassie Sandsmark graduated as the Fury. The JLI reforms again. Young Justice was reformed. The third-generation Teen Titans, the Outlaws, and the JLDark were formed. Robbie Long made his debut as the second Wonder Boy.
9 Years Ago (2012): The JLI disbands again.
8 Years Ago (2013): Forever Evil. Trinity War.
7 Years Ago (2014): The Multiversity. Trinity of Sin.
6 Years Ago (2015): Convergence. DCYou. Darkseid War.
5 Years Ago (2016): DC Rebirth. Robbie Long graduated as Darkstar. The Titans have reformed again. Cassie Sandsmark found Hippolyta Milton, causing [Hippolyta] to make her debut as the fourth Wonder Girl. Lizzie Trevor made her debut as Trinity. Artemis joined the Outlaws. Peng Deilan made her debut as the Wonder Woman of China. The JLC was formed. The Super Sons were formed.
4 Years Ago (2017 to 2018): Godwatch. Heart of the Amazon. Dark Nights: Metal. Children of the Gods. Cassie Sandsmark found her brother Jason. Artemis formed a romantic relationship with Jason Todd Red Hood. Swan’s Son. Amazons Attacked. The Dark Gods. The Enemy of Both Sides. The JLO was formed. The Just War.
3 Years Ago (2019 to 2020): The Grudge. Cassie Sandsmark and Conner Kent Superman were married. Giants War. Love Is a Battlefield. Return of the Amazons. Loveless. The Wild Hunt. The Iron Maiden. The Four Horsewomen. The Outlaws and JLO disbanded. Dark Nights: Death Metal. Diana sacrificed herself to save the world. Endless Winter.
2 Years Ago (2021): Infinite Frontier. Afterworlds. Yara Flor arrived in Brazil. Diana returned from ascension. Through a Glass Darkly.
1 Year Ago (2022): Trial of the Amazons. Yara Flor made her debut as the fifth Wonder Girl. The Villainy of Our Fears. Feral. Dark Crisis. Hippolyta Milton graduated as Lyta Wonder. Before the Storm. Lazarus Planet. Lazarus Planet: Revenge of the Gods. Whatever Happened to the Warrior of Truth?
Now (2023): Dawn of DC. Yara Flor graduated as Yara Flor. Hunter Kent, son of Conner Kent and Cassie Sandsmark, was born. Knight Terrors. Wonder Woman: Outlaw.
2 Years From Now (2025): Time Crisis.
7 Years From Now (2030): Secret Crisis.
10 Years From Now (2033): Hunter Kent made his debut as the Super Wonder. The Superkids were formed.
2981 (2957 to 2958): The Original Legion of Super-Heroes was formed.
6284: Diana traveled from 1996 to save the Amazons of Paradise Island from Porcine Aliens.
6698: The Wonder Woman of the 67th Century made his debut.
78998: The Amazons of Paradise Island wandered the stars in a space ark built by Hermes.
79998: The Amazons of Paradise Island colonized Venus.
85271: The Wonder Woman and Troy of the 853rd century made her debut. The Justice Legions were formed. DC One Million.
The problem with bring very real-world issues is that it grounds this fantastical world but in a bad way. It tends to send a very specific message with little to no nuance. At least for me, I want to read these to escape reality but putting in too many or too big issue real-world things defeats that escapism. Not everyone wants to slapped over the head with a message.
Yeah, our world's issues are easily solved in DC/Marvel. Due to said worlds are like 50 years more advanced in a lot of ways. This just feels dated already.
From the comments here i see that this might be one of those runs that i’ll love but some hardcore fans will hate.
I like that this first issue takes the time to set things up and just shows us Diana shortly, so we understand the context she is in. I like the themes. I like the perception of her as a rebel against the status quo - she was literally created by Marston for that reason. I like the idea of sovereign. The art is amazing.
Really, how is this clumsy or not in character (she barely shows up and people already decided she is not in character). Idk. Maybe ends up being annoying and frustrating like his Batman run, but for me its off to a great start.
Very interesting. I haven't read anything by Tom King that I'm aware of, but what you're describe sounds a lot like the problem I have with Brian Michael Bendis. The man is very clearly a strong competent writer, but he kind of puts *everything* subservient to the story he's trying to tell. Character traits, pacing, past history, none of it really matters in the end, because he's going to tell the story he wants to tell no matter what.
Sounds like the same issue here.
Linkara will have a field day that amazons attack is still canon 😅
I think her core villain should be a woman.....and a man
A sort of competition of opposition of Diana's values.
And i personally have no idea why the villains she does have aren't that prominent in the popular consciousness. Maybe Maxwell Lord, but he's more a justice league villain who moonlights as an ally.
Cheetah, Dr Poison, Dr Psycho and a few other icons of WW just don't have the unkillability/psuedo immortality of Lex or Joker. You expect Diana to win with mild difficulty at worst whereas there is a legitimate chance of Joker and Lex winning for long stretches of time. And her immortal enemies of Circe and Ares and Eris, they're just meh.
Wonder Woman was always going to be difficult coz of her mythological origin which is explicitly separate from the stuff Superman and Batman do (mad scientists, gangsters, crazy weirdos like Scarecrow and Joker plus the occasional alien for a doomsday scenario), you know, things that click with an average person. She's stuck with gods and monsters, and when she's not one wonders why she's involved at least a little bit.
I liked the Wonder Woman movie, and even liked 1984 in concept, if not execution. But i always thought in the back of my mind that the premise was ridiculous. This Warrior Woman, in an isolated culture from the rest of the world should have had a better introduction to the wider world. A better reason to be part of it. While i cant come up with a better plot than the ones published off the top of my head, that's not my job. And me being a classical mythology enthusiast probably doesn't help with that.
😏. My guy Kyle Raynor is always welcome to the chat
How about pair of twins, career criminals that commit crimes mainly for the thrill of it. They challenge Diana's idea of kindness being selfish for no reason and could pose a challenge to her being two people that more than likely have a good sync with each other. If you want to go even deeper, you can make it so the sister is the sadist and the brother is the more level headed one, wanting some relaxation and thinking that violence she be used as a last resort for efficiency sakes.
One thing I love about the Golden Age Wonder Woman is how it doesn't try to be too beholden to Greek Mythology. She has ties to Greek Mythology that serve as her origin and allow you to use mythological stuff when you feel like it. But her actual adventures weren't all about her dealing with gods and legendary figures and monsters. She'd hop on a space kangaroo to fight aliens on Mars and shit. She'd fight Nazis and other villains that have nothing to do with Ancient myth. Even Paradise Island was depicted not as a place that has been frozen in time since the ancient days of myth, but as a place that evolved and developed over the centuries parallel to the outside world. They had technology.
I like how Perez brought in some more Greek stuff to serve as further material to use for stories (his version of the origin is the best one so far), but I still feel like he limited her adventures to mythological-related stuff too much when her comic should be tell any kind of story about her.
Thanks for doing this video. While I don't think I'm going to pick up this series, it is nice to see what's going on.
Okay, I’m gonna be the Hot Take guy here: I liked this issue. It does everything I feel like the first issue of a new series should do: introduce a new status quo, make us care about the stakes, make us hate the bad guys and root for the heroes. Is it perfect? No, but it got my attention, and more importantly, it has the potential to get better as it goes on. I still appreciate the video, though - I appreciate you allowing room for multiple perspectives on these sorts of topics.
it didn't though, it didn't introduce the hero or establish in any way who the hero is. It established the world and the current situation, and multiple unnecessary villains. It established a rehash of a 2007 event series that was extremely poorly received and just badly done all around that we're going to rehash for no reason...
But it didn't establish who Diana is and what she means to this world or even what her purpose is in this world. That's more important than all the rest. Characters should drive the story, not story driving the story. King has an extremely bad habit of telling instead of showing and he's got an extremely bad habit of not caring one iota about the character and just forcing them to be vehicles for his story.. and Diana has suffered that so much. It's vastly more important in a Wonder Woman book to establish who the writer thinks Wonder Woman is and how she handles things and thinks about things because she's the vehicle for the story than it is to introduce another lame villain that's exactly like 200 other villains or rehash Amazon's attack again.
@@JanArrah Ok cool. I respectfully disagree, but I acknowledge the merits of your argument, and I do not wish to challenge your right to hold an opinion that is different from my own.
I have this one Wonder Woman/Ragman Chanukka story in my head that I'd love to write but will never get the chance. It basically revolves around the fact that WW is for all intents and purposes a Greek golem, and it would involve an ancient maccabee-era golem created to fight the Greeks reawakening in present day. It practically writes itself.
That actually sounds like a spectacular plot I would enjoy reading.
Honestly, Wonder Woman is not a hard character to write as long as you remember her core values and traits. Also, to create a new Wonder Woman storyline and villain all writers have to do is look into mythology and give her an evil god or monster to fight. Mythology is at the core of her stories, so draw from that.
Superman is sci fi pulp, Batman is Noir, and Wonder Woman is fantasy and mythology.
I wonder why such a concept is so difficult for people, to wrap their brains around.
His ideas are on point- she is a rebel, she went against her whole homelands ideology. She is different, she fights for something beyond order. She is a warrior, and has been trained in martial arts that are dead to the mordant world and therefore would pose a threat. It all depends on how this is executed. Even the fetish could be awesome if it’s coming from Steel as a character and not the book itself, because even if he does see her for being different he doesn’t understand what she really is. As for the man vs woman aspect that can be great if she is the one who clarifies that it shouldn’t be man vs woman but good vs evil. So much potential, hope it goes/went well
Saying Wonder Woman isn't a soldier definitely feels like they're going against what could be an excellent defining trait.
Wonder Woman is a soldier who's been fighting for hundreds of years. If you want to give her a unique vibe compared to Batman and Superman, playing into that feels like your best option. Emphasize her efficiency and practicality, her ability to adapt and overcome to any situation via superior experience. Batman relies on gadgets and plans, Superman relies on powers and ideals, let Wonder Woman be the hero who relies entirely on herself, and whatever happens to be on hand.
As for personality, if you want to keep her feeling human, make her battle-hardened and a little jaded, like a grizzled old veteran who's been doing this for too long. Emphasize the weight of her life's experiences, and have her sometimes flash back to old wars.
If Superman is the optimist and Batman is the pessimist, let Wonder Woman be the realist.
Sounds like you should be the one writing her, tbh.
Wonder Woman is the most incoherent character of the comics.
@@kami_in_the_skye | Thanks! I'm a professional writer, as it happens, so hearing you say that is validating.
This is incredibly cringy lmao
@@kami_in_the_skyeno this whole si cringy and doesn't get wonder woman character.