Very helpful video. Was puzzled by the difference between Zinsser BIN and Cover Stain, and didn't know which one to use for my ceiling. This video explains the pros and cons of each perfectly and has helped me decide on Cover Stain for my own use. Thank you JoePro!
very helpful video. I've just used polycell stain block spray on a dirty water stain on the ceiling . Painted over but stain has come through. Will take a bit more time and do two coats of the zinsser cover stain and keep fingers crossed. thanks again
I find the sprays need more coats , as i found out when using the coverstain spray canister. Its usually 2 x coats to be sure even when rolling or brushing, so sometimes 3 with spray. Good luck with it Mike 👍
I had a leak around 2007 and then fixed it in 2016 after I used stain block using a brush. Thanks for telling us about your experience. I have the Zinzer blue tin too and used it as an undercoat on a radiator.
Only video I've found comparing CS & BIN. Thanks! I'm painting cabinets. Store recommended BIN over CS, but I'm concerned about the quick drying time and your statement about 2 coats of BIN. Which primer would you use on cabinets? Thanks
Hi Joe, Thanks for a useful video. We had a minor leak (Now repaired) earlier this week and which has now started to stain the kitchen ceiling as shown in your video. The water staining is in several locations over a 4' sq area. I intend to repaint the ceiling using the Zinsser Cover Stain but can you firstly please advise on two issues: 1. Is there any preferred length of time that I should leave the ceiling to fully dry, i.e. days or weeks ?? 2. Is there a need to 'Thin Down' the Zinsser Cover Stain with turps/white spirit prior to use. I will be using a roller on a flat, plastered ceiling. Many thanks
Very good video , can anyone tell me what is the best primer to use on a previously glossed bathroom ceiling , believe previous owner resorted to using gloss when several coats of emulsion failed to cover water stains . Been told I need a bonding primer but with so many out there I’m not sure which one to use , thinking maybe Cover Stain , any advice would be helpful …. Thanks
Hi yes, you can rub it down, clean, and apply a coat of zinsser bullseye 123, or haftprimer which is my favourite, or you can even use zinsser coverstain which is, a, fast drying solvent. (just don't use zinsser bin in a wet environment ) then apply a minimum of 2 coats of zinsser permawhite which you can get in different finishes... Or just a standard acrylic eggshell... My choice would be Johnstones trade Acrylic eggshell.
Straight over with the selected finish.no need to spot prime over the stain block. As long as you get the application of the stain block right there shouldn't be any issues as in using the same nap sleeve for both applications. If the stain block has been stored in a cold room, make sure to warm it up to thin it and help flow of the product as it dries very quickly
I've used this on a damp door before glossing it. But the water mark on the door has come through after 2weeks, any tips pls 2 coats of the stain block and after 2 coats of gloss
Old painters trick, Oilbased undercoat that most have knocking about works 100% never failed me in 37yrs, any oilbased paint works as there opposites, but undercoat takes emulsion better, as it's slightly porous drying times longer than the waterbased but if in no rush & have some already save your money, as long as the leak has been sorted it NEVER fails, use a mini roller instead of brush so it blends with the roller finish on ceiling, no brush marks
The only reason I use coverstain is because it can be double coated(2 hour recoat time), and have two coats of emulsion applied in the same day...unlike oil based undercoat that requires usually the whole day to be recoatable. Always use the same application method with the stain blocker as used with the finish coats....I use a staalmiester medium pile mini sleeve....but always thin the stain blocker so it flows a little better due to very fast drying times
@@JoeProDecor i just normally have the undercoat there & as im on most jobs for days i just use that instead as it saves buying stain block & has never failed, the stain blocks today wasn't around when i started painting 37 yrs ago as far as im aware ? Only used once as client bought it , Zinsser i think but stain still came through
@@TheWESTSIDE1967 no it wasn't around 37vyears ago....I used to use undercoat until these stain blockers appeared...always need two coats of stain block usually to be safe , and I think it's only ever failed on me when I've used the spray cannister version. I hardly ever use oil based now, think I've used it a couple of times in the last 3 year's. All my jobs now are 1 x adhesion primer(caparol haftprimer) , and 2 x johnos Aqua guard satin over old oil based coatings....stays white and most clients don't want a high sheen anymore
@@JoeProDecor i tend to stick to oils on external & Acrylics on internals, the only time i use Acrylic outside now is on the front door as a nightmare with oilbased as even though touch dry to shut it needs a good week to cure & harden & always sticks against the draught excluder etc, i have just found a game changer for me personally as i experimented with different paints to go over old gloss etc, even putting PVA into waterbased undercoat works,dulux multi surface was good but very expensive, 750ml £27 also for melamine, but i did the scratch test with Leyland Acrylic int -Ext multisurface primer undercoat 5L £32 bargain,on old oilbased gloss & it never came off, i did this within 10 mins of painting it , then Acrylic Leyland hardwearing eggshell which i have always recommended & used especially with kids in the house as not just stays pure white but odourless & quick drying, also takes the knocks, it really has made life easier, i use to put oilbased undercoat on woodwork then Acrylic eggshell but only certain undercoat worked, the goalposts have moved with paint now & what we once knew & used with confidence has changed as it's had the harmful stuff taken out & Eco friendly etc 👍
Excellent video, can’t believe someone disliked it. What paint would you recommend for a kitchen ceiling? Can you use a Matt or would you only use silk? Thanks
I never use vinyl silk , horrible stuff, and tbh the sheen level is too much on a ceiling and shows up all of the slopes and curves that may appear and often do on a ceiling, especially large ceilings. It all depends on budget ....sometimes if it's a large ceiling and there is sufficient ventilation, a good quality matt paint is fine in a kitchen...but sometimes requires a soft sheen or better still, something like Johnstones cleanable Matt or zinsser permawhite. All the best, Joe
Hi I've used this primer for a water leak in bedroom. I have give it 1 coat, but it does not look white is this normal? It looks the same colour as the water stain. I'm still waiting to give it top coat. Thanks
sorry for the late replay, but yes its a creamy colour which is fine. it generally requires two coats and then at least two coats of emulsion or woodwork finish ontop
Interesting video Joe, I've been using No Nonsense spray and the yellow stain keeps coming back would these be better? They are very pricy for the small area I have to do
Yes this gear is excellent for water stains, although you could use good old fashioned oil based undercoat if you are in no rush due to the 18 hour recoat time. This gear is recoatable in 2 hours in normal conditions and I usually apply two coats in a morning, giving me enough time to apply a further two finish coats in the afternoon. I'm not a great lover of any of the spray versions tbh, unless I plan on spraying over with my finish coats. Always make sure you use the same type of roller to applyvthis as your finish paint so it doesn't flash.....and don't worry about the flashing while it's drying, it will dissappear when fully dried....the paint on top.of this just takes longer to dry
Hi Joe, Do you have any video on how to fix peeling paint. In my attic I’ve a few walls that I’ve had wallpaper on and some of the paint js come off and was wondering if there was a product or products you would recommend? Thanks, Rob
There is a product called zinsser peelstop that you can apply to help bind ant loose material to the surface. But that doesn't irradiate the uneven surface that needs repainting, so I usually face fill all areas and sand level before applying a primer on all filled area's before painting. But if the wall requires alot of filling , I usually recommend either a full reskim , or the wall's to be lined to give an even porosity surface ready for painting.
Yes you can, but they do recommend the bin ahead of coverstain on stained, varnished timber. Ive used both and prefer coverstain....but i sand all surfaces thoroughly beforehand, and these products are designed to be able to go straight ontop of shiny surfaces. I would never do that, as i dont trust any of these long term over shiny/glossy surfaces
What would I use for covering water splashes on matte paint? I've recently moved into a rented property and previous Tennant hasn't used a bathroom paint & there is splash marks up the walls? Thanks for any help in advance
Hi Yvonne, if it is a stained water mark, it would need to be stain blocked with zinsser coverstain for example before applying your 2 coat system ontop. If not, then simply recoating with a soft sheen is the cheapest option, or an acrylic eggshell for a much harder wearing finish. Both are wipeable but acrylic eggshell is much tougher and longer lasting. Cheers, Joe
Great video. I have some dark patches coming through the plaster after doing the mist coat. Done another coat, but doesn't seem to cover them. Heard an oil based blocker will help. Which zinsser would be most ideal? Thank you!!
i find that this product usually has a weird texture to it around the edges as the emulsion takes longer to dry on the zinsser to the rest of the ceiling
Emulsion usually flashes until completely dry....can't comment on all products, but covaplus, valspar tough matt, good home durable, supermatt and a few others dry perfectly over coverstain
Hi Joe, Great videos. I’m looking to decorate my attic and I’m looking to buy some decent paint brushes for Farrow and Ball Paints. I’ve just bought a Harris Set from Screwfix for Rollers but I’m after some decent cutting in brushes. I also have some railings and stairs to paint which have previously been varnished. How would you tackle them as I’m looking to also paint them. Thank you Rob.
Hi Rob, the varnished stairs will needza couple of coats of a stain blocking primer after initial sanding...zinsser bin is the one that's recommended by them. It's usually 4 or 5 coats over old stained, varnished timber if going white
I am currently using monarch oval angle for emulsion, and arrowworthy classic for either emulsion and woodwork....but also use hamiltons, purdy, and contractors for priming . If using oil, ibuse hamilton perfection.
Love the videos, got a job where the tenant of a flat has used a lot of candles over a period of time so all the wallls and ceilings have a lot of black soot staining,he has tried sugar soap to try and wash as much of as he can but the sugar soap is beading of the wax,wandering what you would use to Clean maybe (virisole ) and what paint over the top to stop bleeding through (was thinking coverstain).Is there a water based satin blocker which may do the job?
I would sand it out with the deros , clean with white spirit or meths...and apply coverstain to block any stains....but if you sand and clean sufficiently, it would be worth giving Johnstones stain away a go...its a stain block and durable matt finish in one(water based)...but it's only good for blocking some stains...it won't hold knot bleed , but I'd say it should be fine with fire damage or smoke damage with a 2 coat system...it can be tinyed also. Thankyou and all the best👍
Hi joe great video. Can i ask if you had to paint old pine doors with lots of knots that had been varnished, can you go 2 coats of bin then straight on with a satin finish as its self undercoating or what would be your method? Would you use oil or waterbased satin ? Thanks again mate
Hi Mick, i would always sand and clean the surface first, before applying zinsser bin, but i must say that ive used coverstain before with great results also. If using oil based, you could apply one coat of bin followed by a coat of oil undercoat, or even coverstain if you require fast recoat times, but i do recommend two coats of bin or coverstain if using water based on top. Water based or oil based is down to personal preference tbh. Oil is easier to achieve a smoother finish and is very slightly more durable imo.....but water based stays white and dries much quicker. You can go straight over two coats of bin with satin....butbare in mind that the primer dries rapid and leaves brush marks, which then inevitably needs sanding inbetween coats to flatten off, so using water based over it may need an extra coat....and in that situation i would apply an acrylic undercoat or even an eggshell before the finish coats to enable a more solid finish. All the best, Joe
@@JoeProDecor thanks joe. One thing that always puzzles me is that you can paint waterbased top coat over oil based undercoat but you cant paint waterbased topcoat over previously oil painted surface . Arnt they both oilbased? Sorry probably really silly question 😂
@@micksmith3352 its still not ideal going over oil with water based tbh.. .even going over undercoat, but when folk want water based, we can only do the very best option other thsn stripping all of thd oil off(which most folk dont want to pay for) But the reason undercoat is a better surface to go over, is because undercoat is a matt finish which means its not smooth(shiny)....under a microscope it has a rough uneven finish resulting in it looking matt....a rough surface promotes adhesion. Generally, the shinier the finish, the smoother it is when dry.....and thats why oil based equivelants have more sheen than water based... because oil takes longer to dry and has more chance to level off smooth before drying. Quick drying paints are much more difficult to achieve a finish as smooth as oil. When a surface is shiny like gloss, or satin...its smooth and slippery which is why its easier to wipe and clean....but its not a good surface to paint over.....so this is why it is vitally important to sand the surface....we are roughing it up basically so its similar to going over undercoat. When i apply water based over old oil, i sand it back until the sheen has gone, often back to the undercoat before applying my adhesion primer/undercoat, then two finish coats. I only apply a two coat system if it is previously painted in water based
@@JoeProDecor joe if i had my time over i would of loved to do an apprenticeship with someone as knowledgeable as yourself. I love painting and your willingness to take the time to answer in detail my questions is so much appreciated. Thanks again
Used the bullseye 123 on a job just before Xmas on a small stain in a victorian house, but it kept bleeding through so just ended up using a basic oil based undercoat. Your channel just came up on my search so have subbed as another P&D is that a Manc accent I'm hearing I'm over near Failsworth.
Hi Billy, yeah the zinsser bullseye 123 is not very good at blocking stains tbh...I always use the coverstain, and sometimes the bin. Yeah I'm from manchester, old Trafford originally 👍
@@JoeProDecor so many different paints primers etc can be a pain to get the right paint for the job I tend to use oil based for small stains then dry it with a heat gun if I'm in a rush been mulling over the cover stain, It's good to see what other P&D's use and swear by. Cheers buddy keep the vids coming. BTW saw your video on painting stairs I made up a box that goes on the stairs so I can use the ladders sideways saved me a tone of cash had it for years.
Brilliant video, just what I was looking for, thank you. Can I ask, once you applied 2 coats of Coverstain to the stained area did you then apply 2 top coats of the finish paint to just the stained area or the whole ceiling?
whole ceiling unless you have the exact same paint used originally, was done not that long ago, and it touches up well like johnstones perfect matt emulsion for example, or tikkurrilla ar2
I want to paint some old dining chairs using chalk paint, which seem to have had a stain on previously, so I'll need something to prevent bleed-through. I used Cover Stain a couple of years ago and found it quite tricky to paint with, being quite thick. At the time (why I don't know) I thought it was thinned with meths, so always just used it straight from the tin. I thought I had some left, but the tin is as good as empty Would you recommend me buying it again, or maybe opt for the BIN primer. Would a single coat of the BIN be enough to prevent any bleeding ... just asking as you said sometimes a second coat will weaken the first coat if more than one application is made. thank you
Hi Brian....yes sometimes I have encountered a top coat of zinsser bin softening the previous coat, and I'm not sure why this can happen. Maybe it is down to climatic conditions at the time...but I do prefer coverstain as it has never thrown up any issues for me personally. In cold weather it will thicken up like any other paint so its advisable to warm it up first, maybe bring it indoors the day before to get to room temperature, then add a little bit of white spirit to listen it off more. This will help, but I always recommend two coats for best results. Stay safe 👍
@@JoeProDecor Thank you for your replies ... I'll just buy Cover stain again and maybe warm it slight;y before applying. As I said, it seemed to work well before ... so why change. Regards and keep safe
Very rarely had it flash after two coats on top tbh, and it certainly doesnt fkash under the products i currently use, which is mainly johnstones trade products. Did you apply the coverstain using a roller? And the top costs by the same method?
And to add that it does usually look like its flashing through untul the top coats have fully dried, that being johnos trade coverplus, tikkurilla Ar2, or good home durable
Flashed for me rolled on a ceiling using dulux supermatt in the past, ive came to a job its looking likely i will need to apply coverstain, im ising MacPherson eclipse and leyland trade vinyl matt on this particular job. Il give it a go... Cheers Joe ☕
Beautiful result. But please tell me you resolved the original water source problem before anything. Ongoing water problems cause toxic molds which can spread unabated. Only then should one bother with the aesthetic of stain hiding.
Hi Joe. Very informative video. Have you ever had an issue with the cover stain showing through the emulsion after a year or 2? I used cover stain on painted 2 water stained downstairs ceilings and the areas where the Zinsser was used are now coming through the emulsion as a yellow colour. I contacted Zinsser to ask about this but they've never heard of that happening before.
Sorry this took so long to answer...but yes I did get this on one occasion when I applied one coat...I always apply two.minimum now and make sure I leave the coverstain a little longer than recommended. I find that when paying two coats of coverstain, the first coat has to dry for at least the minimum recommended time...I try and leave a bit longer. I've not had any bleed coming through with this system
Hi Danny, what emulsion are you using ontop? Some emulsions are bad for flashing over stain blocks and sometimrs require the whole surface to be stain blocked instead of just the patch
Thank you for the response....its called BERGER it was the only 1 in the little shop up the road so I thought it would be fine....I may just have to paint whole ceiling with a deluxe??
@@azgard8914 any quality trade matt emulsion. Johnstones trade covaplus is what i use, or leyland trade smart matt. If you want to use Dulux trade id recommend Dulux trade supermatt....but you must make sure that ypu apply your stain block in the same method as your emulsion for example roller. Its no use brushing the stain block on, then rolling your emulsion on as it will definately flash no matter what.
Hi mate great video! I use classidur supercover at work, it’s great stuff leaves a lovely finished coat also. I have been looking to get cover stain as a bit cheaper then the classidur. I do have a waterbased 123 bin plus, not the greatest stuff but ok for certain situations......but rather not use it for big water stains. Waterbased are never as good as oil based.....as you would know.
Classidur is good gear 👍 and I agree that the water based product's can be prone to letting you down... Although the Isomat stain block has worked well for me when I've not had any time pressures.. Thank you for your comments Dave 👍
Zinsser guardz isn't suitable for blocking stains as its a sealer for chalky or porous surfaces....a bit like a stabilizer. It will however seal/lock paste residue in
I applied one coat of cover stain on my ceilings water stain and I can still see it quite clearly. Is that normal and the ceiling paint will hide the rest of it or should you not be able to see the stain after applying cover stain? Thanks
Hi, you generally need 2 coats of coverstain, then your 2 coats of emulsion over the top. All I can say is that all good quality trade paints that I have applied over the coverstain have dried solid over it, but I cannot speak for retail paints. The coverstain usually shows until the paint has completely dried over it. I've used Armstead trade, dulux trade, Johnstones trade, tikkurilka, crown trade, Hmg, and Mcphersons trade, and even good home durable matt over it, all vinyl matt or contract matt emulsions(except the good home)...and have all covered coverstain successfully. Cheers, Joe
@@JoeProDecor thanks for your response! I figured it's normal if you can still see the water stain through Cover Stain as it's purpose is to seal the stain not completely hide it, correct? I tried a test spot of my ceiling paint (Benjamin Moore 508) over the one coat of Cover Stain and it seems to have covered the water mark well.
@@shivraj67 I always make sure the stain is completely covered, because if you can see the stain , it could potentially still bleed through slightly. Good luck with it 👍
Maximum number of coats required should be two tbh, what type of stain was it? I prefer coverstain for water stains, b.i.n for tobacco stains and knots. Was the product fully stirred before application? And did you adhere to the recommended recoat times?
Bin is shellac! It's best the resin to block any type of stain! This is what is especially advised to block fire stain. Bin is known for that! I'm sure you're not using the right roller. Or maybe in the UK it's not as good!
I agree that bin is the best option for some stains, ie tannins and knots, although 2 coats of coverstain works done on tannins....but coverstain is just as effective on water stains which is what I mostly use it for. I find Bin too brittle and always use an alternative if I can tbh....whatever works, and its also more prone to flashing when spot priming rather than doing a whole surface...something I dont have an issue with when using coverstain. The rollers i use work fine with either of them.
@@JoeProDecor Flashing? This is interesting. It shouldn't, but I will trust you on this. I live in Canada and all the contractors that comes to my store they love so much bin. I try to sell the equivalent but they don't like it as much. But it's good to know.
@@JoeProDecor I've found that Cover Stain does flash through subsequent emulsion coats, leaving a glossy look. After using B.I.N and found that after it dried, and then applying emulsion, it looked great.
@@bitTorrenter I find the opposite... Bin is more likely to flash after drying under emulsion, although it does depend on what emulsion you are using on top. For example, dulux trade paints seem to cause this more than say Johnstone trade(which I'm using now) I use coverstain all of the time on water stained ceilings, and apply either Leyland smart matt, or Johnstones coverplus over it, and it only flashes until completely dry. Did one just over a week ago... 3 x coats of coverstain (warmed up) over badly stained water damage, feathering out slightly more each time... Then 2 x coats of JOhnstones coverplus - perfect when dry after 3-4 hours 👌
@@bitTorrenter bin dries even faster than coverstain, meaning its more likely to leave a slightly different texture due to not having enough time to flow... I always believed this is likely to be the reason for the flashing... Just like picture framing when a mini sleeve is not used for cutting in. It's one of the reasons I will only use the spray versions if I'm spraying on top, as I find it requires more coats on top if using a roller to stop. It flashing
So glad I've found this channel, straight talk .... no waffle.
Very helpful video. Was puzzled by the difference between Zinsser BIN and Cover Stain, and didn't know which one to use for my ceiling. This video explains the pros and cons of each perfectly and has helped me decide on Cover Stain for my own use. Thank you JoePro!
Excellent tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to explain the difference. Much appreciated.
very helpful video. I've just used polycell stain block spray on a dirty water stain on the ceiling . Painted over but stain has come through. Will take a bit more time and do two coats of the zinsser cover stain and keep fingers crossed. thanks again
I find the sprays need more coats , as i found out when using the coverstain spray canister. Its usually 2 x coats to be sure even when rolling or brushing, so sometimes 3 with spray.
Good luck with it Mike 👍
I had a leak around 2007 and then fixed it in 2016 after I used stain block using a brush. Thanks for telling us about your experience. I have the Zinzer blue tin too and used it as an undercoat on a radiator.
Great, my question of whether the cover stain needed to go on the whole ceiling or just the stains themselves was answered 👍
4:05 - Makes a very good point about the alcohol softening the shellac on an already primed surface.
Only video I've found comparing CS & BIN. Thanks!
I'm painting cabinets. Store recommended BIN over CS, but I'm concerned about the quick drying time and your statement about 2 coats of BIN. Which primer would you use on cabinets? Thanks
All good Joe, still hard to beat the old fashioned oil undercoat if you have time for drying. 👍
Hello if I just cover the stains with Zinsser cover stain, will this be noticeable after two coats of emulsion? My 1st go at this, thank you 🙏
as long as you dont roll it on too thick, and be sure to use the same method of application when applying both coverstain and emulsion
Hi great video when I applied this it was a creamy colour when rolled on the wall is this the correct colour?
Yes it is supposed to be white but more like a light cream
Hi Joe,
Thanks for a useful video.
We had a minor leak (Now repaired) earlier this week and which has now started to stain the kitchen ceiling as shown in your video. The water staining is in several locations over a 4' sq area.
I intend to repaint the ceiling using the Zinsser Cover Stain but can you firstly please advise on two issues:
1. Is there any preferred length of time that I should leave the ceiling to fully dry, i.e. days or weeks ??
2. Is there a need to 'Thin Down' the Zinsser Cover Stain with turps/white spirit prior to use. I will be using a roller on a flat, plastered ceiling.
Many thanks
Very good video , can anyone tell me what is the best primer to use on a previously glossed bathroom ceiling , believe previous owner resorted to using gloss when several coats of emulsion failed to cover water stains . Been told I need a bonding primer but with so many out there I’m not sure which one to use , thinking maybe Cover Stain , any advice would be helpful …. Thanks
Hi yes, you can rub it down, clean, and apply a coat of zinsser bullseye 123, or haftprimer which is my favourite, or you can even use zinsser coverstain which is, a, fast drying solvent. (just don't use zinsser bin in a wet environment ) then apply a minimum of 2 coats of zinsser permawhite which you can get in different finishes... Or just a standard acrylic eggshell... My choice would be Johnstones trade Acrylic eggshell.
Would you spot prime with selected top coat paint once the cover stain is dry?
Straight over with the selected finish.no need to spot prime over the stain block. As long as you get the application of the stain block right there shouldn't be any issues as in using the same nap sleeve for both applications. If the stain block has been stored in a cold room, make sure to warm it up to thin it and help flow of the product as it dries very quickly
Hi that was interesting what would you recommend for cigarette smoke, I tried washing it off it's just not working
zinsser bin, red tin
I've used this on a damp door before glossing it. But the water mark on the door has come through after 2weeks, any tips pls
2 coats of the stain block and after 2 coats of gloss
damp? it will only work on dried stains and not anything wet or damp unfortunately. you need zinsser watertite for blocking dampness
Old painters trick, Oilbased undercoat that most have knocking about works 100% never failed me in 37yrs, any oilbased paint works as there opposites, but undercoat takes emulsion better, as it's slightly porous drying times longer than the waterbased but if in no rush & have some already save your money, as long as the leak has been sorted it NEVER fails, use a mini roller instead of brush so it blends with the roller finish on ceiling, no brush marks
The only reason I use coverstain is because it can be double coated(2 hour recoat time), and have two coats of emulsion applied in the same day...unlike oil based undercoat that requires usually the whole day to be recoatable.
Always use the same application method with the stain blocker as used with the finish coats....I use a staalmiester medium pile mini sleeve....but always thin the stain blocker so it flows a little better due to very fast drying times
@@JoeProDecor i just normally have the undercoat there & as im on most jobs for days i just use that instead as it saves buying stain block & has never failed, the stain blocks today wasn't around when i started painting 37 yrs ago as far as im aware ? Only used once as client bought it , Zinsser i think but stain still came through
@@TheWESTSIDE1967 no it wasn't around 37vyears ago....I used to use undercoat until these stain blockers appeared...always need two coats of stain block usually to be safe , and I think it's only ever failed on me when I've used the spray cannister version.
I hardly ever use oil based now, think I've used it a couple of times in the last 3 year's. All my jobs now are 1 x adhesion primer(caparol haftprimer) , and 2 x johnos Aqua guard satin over old oil based coatings....stays white and most clients don't want a high sheen anymore
@@JoeProDecor i tend to stick to oils on external & Acrylics on internals, the only time i use Acrylic outside now is on the front door as a nightmare with oilbased as even though touch dry to shut it needs a good week to cure & harden & always sticks against the draught excluder etc, i have just found a game changer for me personally as i experimented with different paints to go over old gloss etc, even putting PVA into waterbased undercoat works,dulux multi surface was good but very expensive, 750ml £27 also for melamine, but i did the scratch test with Leyland Acrylic int -Ext multisurface primer undercoat 5L £32 bargain,on old oilbased gloss & it never came off, i did this within 10 mins of painting it , then Acrylic Leyland hardwearing eggshell which i have always recommended & used especially with kids in the house as not just stays pure white but odourless & quick drying, also takes the knocks, it really has made life easier, i use to put oilbased undercoat on woodwork then Acrylic eggshell but only certain undercoat worked, the goalposts have moved with paint now & what we once knew & used with confidence has changed as it's had the harmful stuff taken out & Eco friendly etc 👍
@@TheWESTSIDE1967 yes I use oil on externals , although I don't do as many externals now.
Excellent video, can’t believe someone disliked it. What paint would you recommend for a kitchen ceiling? Can you use a Matt or would you only use silk? Thanks
I never use vinyl silk , horrible stuff, and tbh the sheen level is too much on a ceiling and shows up all of the slopes and curves that may appear and often do on a ceiling, especially large ceilings. It all depends on budget ....sometimes if it's a large ceiling and there is sufficient ventilation, a good quality matt paint is fine in a kitchen...but sometimes requires a soft sheen or better still, something like Johnstones cleanable Matt or zinsser permawhite.
All the best, Joe
Helpful video. I used this to help me cover some water stains on my ceiling. 👍🏻
Excellent 👍
Hi I've used this primer for a water leak in bedroom. I have give it 1 coat, but it does not look white is this normal? It looks the same colour as the water stain. I'm still waiting to give it top coat. Thanks
sorry for the late replay, but yes its a creamy colour which is fine. it generally requires two coats and then at least two coats of emulsion or woodwork finish ontop
Interesting video Joe, I've been using No Nonsense spray and the yellow stain keeps coming back would these be better? They are very pricy for the small area I have to do
Yes this gear is excellent for water stains, although you could use good old fashioned oil based undercoat if you are in no rush due to the 18 hour recoat time.
This gear is recoatable in 2 hours in normal conditions and I usually apply two coats in a morning, giving me enough time to apply a further two finish coats in the afternoon.
I'm not a great lover of any of the spray versions tbh, unless I plan on spraying over with my finish coats. Always make sure you use the same type of roller to applyvthis as your finish paint so it doesn't flash.....and don't worry about the flashing while it's drying, it will dissappear when fully dried....the paint on top.of this just takes longer to dry
Hi Joe,
Do you have any video on how to fix peeling paint. In my attic I’ve a few walls that I’ve had wallpaper on and some of the paint js come off and was wondering if there was a product or products you would recommend?
Thanks,
Rob
There is a product called zinsser peelstop that you can apply to help bind ant loose material to the surface. But that doesn't irradiate the uneven surface that needs repainting, so I usually face fill all areas and sand level before applying a primer on all filled area's before painting. But if the wall requires alot of filling , I usually recommend either a full reskim , or the wall's to be lined to give an even porosity surface ready for painting.
Can you use the Zinsser cover stain (gold tin ) on varnished doors as well ?
Yes you can, but they do recommend the bin ahead of coverstain on stained, varnished timber. Ive used both and prefer coverstain....but i sand all surfaces thoroughly beforehand, and these products are designed to be able to go straight ontop of shiny surfaces.
I would never do that, as i dont trust any of these long term over shiny/glossy surfaces
Love your videos brother I'm a pro painter from the states keep up the good work
Ken
Cheers Ken, I'm glad you are enjoying them, all the best to you in the states 👍
What would I use for covering water splashes on matte paint? I've recently moved into a rented property and previous Tennant hasn't used a bathroom paint & there is splash marks up the walls? Thanks for any help in advance
Hi Yvonne, if it is a stained water mark, it would need to be stain blocked with zinsser coverstain for example before applying your 2 coat system ontop.
If not, then simply recoating with a soft sheen is the cheapest option, or an acrylic eggshell for a much harder wearing finish. Both are wipeable but acrylic eggshell is much tougher and longer lasting.
Cheers, Joe
@@JoeProDecor thanks very much for taking the time to answer my quirie
Great video. I have some dark patches coming through the plaster after doing the mist coat. Done another coat, but doesn't seem to cover them. Heard an oil based blocker will help. Which zinsser would be most ideal? Thank you!!
sounds like the plaster had not dried in places? if it is a stain then coverstain should block it
i find that this product usually has a weird texture to it around the edges as the emulsion takes longer to dry on the zinsser to the rest of the ceiling
Emulsion usually flashes until completely dry....can't comment on all products, but covaplus, valspar tough matt, good home durable, supermatt and a few others dry perfectly over coverstain
Hi Joe,
Great videos. I’m looking to decorate my attic and I’m looking to buy some decent paint brushes for Farrow and Ball Paints. I’ve just bought a Harris Set from Screwfix for Rollers but I’m after some decent cutting in brushes. I also have some railings and stairs to paint which have previously been varnished. How would you tackle them as I’m looking to also paint them. Thank you Rob.
Hi Rob, the varnished stairs will needza couple of coats of a stain blocking primer after initial sanding...zinsser bin is the one that's recommended by them. It's usually 4 or 5 coats over old stained, varnished timber if going white
I am currently using monarch oval angle for emulsion, and arrowworthy classic for either emulsion and woodwork....but also use hamiltons, purdy, and contractors for priming .
If using oil, ibuse hamilton perfection.
Hamilton Green sleeves for emulsion, and staalmiester mini roller sleeves for woodwork/cills/cabinets ect....
Thanks Joe. I’ve replied but they seem to be disappearing. Could you send me some links to products please??
@@Rob-zd2be Hi rob, if you wish to buy gear online, then I can recommend www.mypaintbrush.co.uk for all your needs.
Love the videos, got a job where the tenant of a flat has used a lot of candles over a period of time so all the wallls and ceilings have a lot of black soot staining,he has tried sugar soap to try and wash as much of as he can but the sugar soap is beading of the wax,wandering what you would use to Clean maybe (virisole ) and what paint over the top to stop bleeding through (was thinking coverstain).Is there a water based satin blocker which may do the job?
I would sand it out with the deros , clean with white spirit or meths...and apply coverstain to block any stains....but if you sand and clean sufficiently, it would be worth giving Johnstones stain away a go...its a stain block and durable matt finish in one(water based)...but it's only good for blocking some stains...it won't hold knot bleed , but I'd say it should be fine with fire damage or smoke damage with a 2 coat system...it can be tinyed also.
Thankyou and all the best👍
@@JoeProDecor Thanks for advice will give it a go"
Thanks for taking the time to make this jo
I think is a fantastic product I use it on the past is brilliant the mines is a bit runny enjoyed the video
Hi joe great video. Can i ask if you had to paint old pine doors with lots of knots that had been varnished, can you go 2 coats of bin then straight on with a satin finish as its self undercoating or what would be your method? Would you use oil or waterbased satin ?
Thanks again mate
Hi Mick, i would always sand and clean the surface first, before applying zinsser bin, but i must say that ive used coverstain before with great results also. If using oil based, you could apply one coat of bin followed by a coat of oil undercoat, or even coverstain if you require fast recoat times, but i do recommend two coats of bin or coverstain if using water based on top. Water based or oil based is down to personal preference tbh. Oil is easier to achieve a smoother finish and is very slightly more durable imo.....but water based stays white and dries much quicker. You can go straight over two coats of bin with satin....butbare in mind that the primer dries rapid and leaves brush marks, which then inevitably needs sanding inbetween coats to flatten off, so using water based over it may need an extra coat....and in that situation i would apply an acrylic undercoat or even an eggshell before the finish coats to enable a more solid finish.
All the best, Joe
@@JoeProDecor thanks joe. One thing that always puzzles me is that you can paint waterbased top coat over oil based undercoat but you cant paint waterbased topcoat over previously oil painted surface . Arnt they both oilbased? Sorry probably really silly question 😂
@@micksmith3352 its still not ideal going over oil with water based tbh.. .even going over undercoat, but when folk want water based, we can only do the very best option other thsn stripping all of thd oil off(which most folk dont want to pay for)
But the reason undercoat is a better surface to go over, is because undercoat is a matt finish which means its not smooth(shiny)....under a microscope it has a rough uneven finish resulting in it looking matt....a rough surface promotes adhesion. Generally, the shinier the finish, the smoother it is when dry.....and thats why oil based equivelants have more sheen than water based... because oil takes longer to dry and has more chance to level off smooth before drying.
Quick drying paints are much more difficult to achieve a finish as smooth as oil.
When a surface is shiny like gloss, or satin...its smooth and slippery which is why its easier to wipe and clean....but its not a good surface to paint over.....so this is why it is vitally important to sand the surface....we are roughing it up basically so its similar to going over undercoat. When i apply water based over old oil, i sand it back until the sheen has gone, often back to the undercoat before applying my adhesion primer/undercoat, then two finish coats. I only apply a two coat system if it is previously painted in water based
@@JoeProDecor joe if i had my time over i would of loved to do an apprenticeship with someone as knowledgeable as yourself. I love painting and your willingness to take the time to answer in detail my questions is so much appreciated. Thanks again
@@micksmith3352 No problem mike, all the best, Joe
Used the bullseye 123 on a job just before Xmas on a small stain in a victorian house, but it kept bleeding through so just ended up using a basic oil based undercoat. Your channel just came up on my search so have subbed as another P&D is that a Manc accent I'm hearing I'm over near Failsworth.
Hi Billy, yeah the zinsser bullseye 123 is not very good at blocking stains tbh...I always use the coverstain, and sometimes the bin.
Yeah I'm from manchester, old Trafford originally 👍
Coverstain is as good as oil based undercoat but recoatable in 2 hours
@@JoeProDecor so many different paints primers etc can be a pain to get the right paint for the job I tend to use oil based for small stains then dry it with a heat gun if I'm in a rush been mulling over the cover stain, It's good to see what other P&D's use and swear by. Cheers buddy keep the vids coming. BTW saw your video on painting stairs I made up a box that goes on the stairs so I can use the ladders sideways saved me a tone of cash had it for years.
Brilliant video, just what I was looking for, thank you. Can I ask, once you applied 2 coats of Coverstain to the stained area did you then apply 2 top coats of the finish paint to just the stained area or the whole ceiling?
whole ceiling unless you have the exact same paint used originally, was done not that long ago, and it touches up well like johnstones perfect matt emulsion for example, or tikkurrilla ar2
I want to paint some old dining chairs using chalk paint, which seem to have had a stain on previously, so I'll need something to prevent bleed-through.
I used Cover Stain a couple of years ago and found it quite tricky to paint with, being quite thick. At the time (why I don't know) I thought it was thinned with meths, so always just used it straight from the tin.
I thought I had some left, but the tin is as good as empty
Would you recommend me buying it again, or maybe opt for the BIN primer. Would a single coat of the BIN be enough to prevent any bleeding ... just asking as you said sometimes a second coat will weaken the first coat if more than one application is made.
thank you
Hi Brian....yes sometimes I have encountered a top coat of zinsser bin softening the previous coat, and I'm not sure why this can happen. Maybe it is down to climatic conditions at the time...but I do prefer coverstain as it has never thrown up any issues for me personally. In cold weather it will thicken up like any other paint so its advisable to warm it up first, maybe bring it indoors the day before to get to room temperature, then add a little bit of white spirit to listen it off more. This will help, but I always recommend two coats for best results.
Stay safe 👍
Bin doesn't always do this by the way. I do still use bin on knots, and I always two coat it
@@JoeProDecor Thank you for your replies ... I'll just buy Cover stain again and maybe warm it slight;y before applying. As I said, it seemed to work well before ... so why change.
Regards and keep safe
Hi Joe, ive used coverstain in the bast and its flashed afterwards, is this normal?
Very rarely had it flash after two coats on top tbh, and it certainly doesnt fkash under the products i currently use, which is mainly johnstones trade products.
Did you apply the coverstain using a roller? And the top costs by the same method?
Only time i remember it flashing was when id used the spray cannister version and rolled over it....ive not used the spray version since.
And to add that it does usually look like its flashing through untul the top coats have fully dried, that being johnos trade coverplus, tikkurilla Ar2, or good home durable
Flashed for me rolled on a ceiling using dulux supermatt in the past, ive came to a job its looking likely i will need to apply coverstain, im ising MacPherson eclipse and leyland trade vinyl matt on this particular job. Il give it a go... Cheers Joe ☕
Beautiful result. But please tell me you resolved the original water source problem before anything. Ongoing water problems cause toxic molds which can spread unabated. Only then should one bother with the aesthetic of stain hiding.
Hi there, yes of course.... The problem hasto be rectified, then dried out before applying paint 👍
Hi Joe. Very informative video.
Have you ever had an issue with the cover stain showing through the emulsion after a year or 2?
I used cover stain on painted 2 water stained downstairs ceilings and the areas where the Zinsser was used are now coming through the emulsion as a yellow colour. I contacted Zinsser to ask about this but they've never heard of that happening before.
Sorry this took so long to answer...but yes I did get this on one occasion when I applied one coat...I always apply two.minimum now and make sure I leave the coverstain a little longer than recommended.
I find that when paying two coats of coverstain, the first coat has to dry for at least the minimum recommended time...I try and leave a bit longer.
I've not had any bleed coming through with this system
hi great vid.What brand was the top coat paint?
Hi there, the top coat was Armstead trade b/w vinyl matt emulsion 👌
And thank you 👍
Iv used 2 coats of the same tin and done 3 coats of matt white and still can see the sealer coming threw....please help
Hi Danny, what emulsion are you using ontop? Some emulsions are bad for flashing over stain blocks and sometimrs require the whole surface to be stain blocked instead of just the patch
Thank you for the response....its called BERGER it was the only 1 in the little shop up the road so I thought it would be fine....I may just have to paint whole ceiling with a deluxe??
@@azgard8914 any quality trade matt emulsion.
Johnstones trade covaplus is what i use, or leyland trade smart matt. If you want to use Dulux trade id recommend Dulux trade supermatt....but you must make sure that ypu apply your stain block in the same method as your emulsion for example roller. Its no use brushing the stain block on, then rolling your emulsion on as it will definately flash no matter what.
Useful video that, thanks for doing it, been a good help before buying Zinsser.
Hi mate great video! I use classidur supercover at work, it’s great stuff leaves a lovely finished coat also. I have been looking to get cover stain as a bit cheaper then the classidur. I do have a waterbased 123 bin plus, not the greatest stuff but ok for certain situations......but rather not use it for big water stains. Waterbased are never as good as oil based.....as you would know.
Classidur is good gear 👍 and I agree that the water based product's can be prone to letting you down... Although the Isomat stain block has worked well for me when I've not had any time pressures.. Thank you for your comments Dave 👍
The new Johnstones 'stain away' is apparently fantastic gear... So I will be giving that a go very soon
Yea that Johnstone’s stain away might be the way forward mate!! Just hope it does cover well with a couple of coats . I might have to try it out
What about Zinsser Gardz? That any good?
Zinsser guardz isn't suitable for blocking stains as its a sealer for chalky or porous surfaces....a bit like a stabilizer. It will however seal/lock paste residue in
I applied one coat of cover stain on my ceilings water stain and I can still see it quite clearly. Is that normal and the ceiling paint will hide the rest of it or should you not be able to see the stain after applying cover stain? Thanks
Hi, you generally need 2 coats of coverstain, then your 2 coats of emulsion over the top. All I can say is that all good quality trade paints that I have applied over the coverstain have dried solid over it, but I cannot speak for retail paints. The coverstain usually shows until the paint has completely dried over it.
I've used Armstead trade, dulux trade, Johnstones trade, tikkurilka, crown trade, Hmg, and Mcphersons trade, and even good home durable matt over it, all vinyl matt or contract matt emulsions(except the good home)...and have all covered coverstain successfully.
Cheers, Joe
@@JoeProDecor thanks for your response! I figured it's normal if you can still see the water stain through Cover Stain as it's purpose is to seal the stain not completely hide it, correct? I tried a test spot of my ceiling paint (Benjamin Moore 508) over the one coat of Cover Stain and it seems to have covered the water mark well.
@@shivraj67 I always make sure the stain is completely covered, because if you can see the stain , it could potentially still bleed through slightly.
Good luck with it 👍
@@JoeProDecor cheers!
Excellent detailed review. Thank you very much!
You are welcome Donna 👍 I'm glad it was helpful
I’ve just used that B.I.N. Given 3 coats week later stain is starting to show through 🤦🏽
Maximum number of coats required should be two tbh, what type of stain was it? I prefer coverstain for water stains, b.i.n for tobacco stains and knots.
Was the product fully stirred before application? And did you adhere to the recommended recoat times?
Bin is shellac! It's best the resin to block any type of stain! This is what is especially advised to block fire stain. Bin is known for that! I'm sure you're not using the right roller. Or maybe in the UK it's not as good!
I agree that bin is the best option for some stains, ie tannins and knots, although 2 coats of coverstain works done on tannins....but coverstain is just as effective on water stains which is what I mostly use it for. I find Bin too brittle and always use an alternative if I can tbh....whatever works, and its also more prone to flashing when spot priming rather than doing a whole surface...something I dont have an issue with when using coverstain.
The rollers i use work fine with either of them.
@@JoeProDecor Flashing? This is interesting. It shouldn't, but I will trust you on this. I live in Canada and all the contractors that comes to my store they love so much bin. I try to sell the equivalent but they don't like it as much. But it's good to know.
@@JoeProDecor I've found that Cover Stain does flash through subsequent emulsion coats, leaving a glossy look. After using B.I.N and found that after it dried, and then applying emulsion, it looked great.
@@bitTorrenter I find the opposite... Bin is more likely to flash after drying under emulsion, although it does depend on what emulsion you are using on top. For example, dulux trade paints seem to cause this more than say Johnstone trade(which I'm using now)
I use coverstain all of the time on water stained ceilings, and apply either Leyland smart matt, or Johnstones coverplus over it, and it only flashes until completely dry.
Did one just over a week ago... 3 x coats of coverstain (warmed up) over badly stained water damage, feathering out slightly more each time... Then 2 x coats of JOhnstones coverplus - perfect when dry after 3-4 hours 👌
@@bitTorrenter bin dries even faster than coverstain, meaning its more likely to leave a slightly different texture due to not having enough time to flow... I always believed this is likely to be the reason for the flashing... Just like picture framing when a mini sleeve is not used for cutting in.
It's one of the reasons I will only use the spray versions if I'm spraying on top, as I find it requires more coats on top if using a roller to stop. It flashing
Just been watching your videos brilliant
Thank you Mark 👍 aiming for more in the next week or so
Coverstain is great. BIN is hard tó Work with, unless sprayed. Never found the blue tin 123 much good. Great videos
Thank you, I Only ever use 123 on metal Really
👍 nice one