I've put 2 hours on my new 300 XC TBI and all I can say is WOW! I'm coming off a 2019 350 XC-F and I race hare scrambles and enduros in FL/Southeast. Such a nice bike that feels lighter than it is and is very slim...
Thank you for the comprehensive review. I have a 300 SX coming. I raced motocross till 1994 and I started racing Enduro‘s and cross-country‘s but I decided to start racing some motocross this year. my current woods bike is a 2020 Beta 300 RR and the reason I went with Beta was because the 2020 KTM‘s I just didn’t feel they were 100% ready for the market for a $10,000 motorcycle at the time. I’ve had 28 KTM‘s ( 13 were 300s) and the only one I regret is the current 790 🍋🍋🍋🍋that I have because it’s a piece of junk and with 3400 miles on it.. this time the cams are bad and KTM says that I get the honor of paying the $1800 to fix it. I look forward to watching more of your fine videos.
I think the stock headlight is fine for just trail riding unless you are going to be riding at night. Works fine for making yourself visible. For street legal or night riding a better headlight is necessary.
I would definitely hope it makes more power than a tpi . My question is how does it run compared to a well tuned 12 to 16 pre counter balanced factory kehin carb bike as that is pretty much the bench mark for off idle snap although most have forgotten how good they were.
Really? That's what I have. I just figured they kept getting snappier. But yeah I have zero complaints about the response and power delivery - pretty much perfection. They do have to be tuned in... Properly. But you get to.
So if the rads are the same but the outlet points up… I wonder if we can fix the hose routing on our TPIs with these new rads?? I’m tired of needing layers of hoses and clamps and ties to stop the pv pinch
I ride back East mainly Woods single track, which do you think the XC or XC-W would work best? does the XC have the ambient air sensor? I love the XC-W but kind of worried about oil injection, I currently ride a yz250, I am used to pre mix.
I've held onto my 2019 TX300 because every TPI I've ridden needed a head and a tune to feel as strong as my carbed bike. Additionally I've fixed a half dozen TPIs that ran lean stock and melted pistons and one that cracked a cylinder. This new TBI might convert me.
Just got my 1st real ride in on my TBI TX 300 after proper set up and I really like it! Might change to 13/52 to get more 3rd and 4th use on the New England terrain. The BRP mount with a weld on tower is a must for me on this bike. I wasn’t going to put a Rekluse in it, but I did and I’m happy with it. SXS skid even though it didn’t need it. A bolt on link skid is all it really needs. Even the plastic rad guards are built really well, but I still put the EE ones on. Tubliss F&B with a Fatty and 505. I guess I’ll figure out the fan situation during the winter, but it seems that the stators are weak and we will need a beefed up system for light and fan. Oh, and suspension is going out asap. Ravens and bladder kit.
How does the cover on the powervalve look as far as protection goes? Do you think a rock or branch could take out the powervalve assembly? Can it be bump started without the battery installed? Its a bummer that they didn't allow for a fan to be plugged in. That seems like a mistake to me.
My 300 TPI is SOOOOOOsweeeeeet! But I love new tech and improvements, so I went down to my shop and got my out the door price at $13,500 for the new TBI 300. Then I'll want to put $2,000K worth of goodies, that makes it $15,500... Then I ended up going for a ride same day on my TPI 300, and it was SOOOOOsweeeeet - so I decided to let these bikes get out on the market and I'll buy one for about $9,000k used next year with about 12 hours. Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the detailed breakdown! The LED headlights are a little slimmer, I reckon they might fit on there without needing to relocate the wiring bracketry :-)
I currently have a 21 300 XCW. I've been waiting for these to come out. I'm pretty sure I will buy one. The question is whether or not I will just get the 300 SX vs the XC. As far as I can tell, it is only a kickstand/5speed/larger tank for the 2K difference. I'm not wide open in 6th often. I could probably use that extra 2K towards my addons. I haven't seen any reviews yet though of the SX. I'm sure the suspension is a little stiffer but at 190lb I will be having it redone anyway.
Nice to see the improvements all around. After learning about the new TBI, however, I've gone out and bought a leftover TPI. I just don't care to mix fuel ever again. It's too bad KTM has given up on perfecting the TPI and gone to this compromise.
Love my 22 300XCW. Not mixing fuel is wonderful. I can share spare fuel with my 4S buddies if necessary. And the power delivery is smooooth and plentiful!👍
Thank you for the in-depth look at this bike. I have been going back and forth between this bike and the 300 XC-W. I’m really torn on which way to go? Any recommendations???
looks like a nice bike. i just bought a 21 TPI, I've got the TSP hi comp head (250). The bike is just fantastic, more than enough power, this one looks great but I'll probably stick with mine for a few years at least. As an XCW/woods-oriented rider it's probably more suited still for me anyways.
I’m interested in your take on the stiffness of the new frame design and suspension. I have heard some complaints. Even Roger mentioned set up issue with the new chassis on SML (of course he was talking about the MX team bikes, but the frame design is now the same I believe).
Great video I ride a 2021 Gas Gas ec300 TPI converted to TBI. The TBI made my bike more responsive and offered more bottom to midrange power. I can't help to wonder if the 2023 TBI is even better !
I also have same bike as you have. Also switched to tbi and was running 80h with tbi (ignition replaced) but now I switched back to tpi, and I so happy with that. The tbi is more powerful more aggresive and response is better, but stability is worth ever. Always when I riding in the mountain in high I need to open air bypass more, and when I on the bottom need to close it. One more disadvantage it is when you hit the log by rear wheel try to feel that you lost power (ussualy when you climbing heel and want to jump from the log), and when you breaking (I mean you have hight speed and you stop) the engine stalls. But it never heppen with tpi. Just want to say that tbi by replacing ignition on tpi is not perfect and has a lot disadvantage. I hope on new tbi they resolve all that things by correct engine map.
Very nice review and comparison. I have a 2018 300xc with a Keihin carb upgrade and a RK Tek head. Its an amazing bike but I would love to test ride that 2023!
How come nobody has ever come up with a seat release better than the late 90's Husky/Cagiva? It's 1, 1/4 turn fastener at the back with slots on the front. Never broken, tool-less, and simple. I also like how bike fuel injection is up to late 80's car technology. I dread working on my old TBI chevy, flashing lights for codes and all. Why can't they just put an OBDII port on the ECM and allow common scan tools to work? Would that be so horrible to share tech with cars? I wish it was easier to get parts for my old Husky 360. Damn thing has been a tank. No high pressure fuel pump to fail, no oil injection to fail, no battery to die, no ECM to fail.... Electronics are great when they work, but damn do they suck when they fail and you can't even start to diagnose it on the trail.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the RK vs TSP heads and tunes on the TPI bikes. I ride mostly slow, tight rocky technical trails in 1-3 gear and wouldn’t mind a little more oomph from low to mid on my 22 300xcw. TIA.
Tsp head is my vote for you as well. The RkTek head is great for making the tpi very aggressive/ motocross like hard hit…which is not useful to me in techcnail singletrack, but good in hard wide open desert, sand hillclimbs, etc. whereas the TSP has great bottom end and mid improvement. Pulls hard, but doesn’t hit hard…of that makes sense. It’s easier to manage. Love my TSp high comp. Other brands you maybe want low or mid head, but TSp I think High comp is the way to go and with their ecu reflash
Rk tek head, 2 turns out pv, no tune, 22 Erzberg is now a perfect, single track, gnar bike. Trails wee 2nd gear and 3 rd couldn’t pull it, now I can use 3rd gear easily. Worth every penny.
subscribed. Really have not seen any negative feedback on it. If you hit the start button while it's running it throws a code that imitates a PV problem... I'm sure you seen that. Nothing negative, I'm sure with "XC" suspension it will need a revalve for slow rocky terrain and rider weight, but everyone seems to indicate the stock suspension isn't that bad. ALSO.. looks like you have amazing places to ride. I'm guessing utah.
Yep, Utah! I actually had the problem with the code and had to have the dealer reset the hard code. I'm trying not to accidently hit the start button while its running. KTM will be pushing out a software update.
@@SOBchannel on my bucket list to at least ride Moab, slick rock and some of those places, little curious what we need as far spark arrestors Y/N and what type of pass or registration we need... mostly logistic stuff. and where to go to get the most stuff with least amount of travel once we get out there. I'm assuming we don't have to be street legal or have a tag. And probably spring time is the best bet for the weather and temps
big hickup to buy with those composite sub frame :( 200 grams is not worth it... its a big deal changer when spare parts worth very high with importers :(
im sure its a blast to ride but ill wait till the problems surface. plus goddamn you KTm for taking away the kickstarter!! if you notice watching WESS the KTM riders have kickstarters. hmmm. wonder why
The lack of a kickstarter is no more a point of failure than the odds of "breaking a chain" or any other potentially catastrophic failure in my opinion, it's been going away for the last 5 years. It's archaic to kick start a bike now really... No offense.. Opinions are you know millions of them.
@@jeff40 until you add a rekluse.... As shitty as these tiny power-sports batteries are I can't see relying on them for 100% of your starting needs. I've had a ton of times it was to cold for the battery to work, and just went and bump started it. It's also why I can't put a rekluse on it, which would take away most of the need for electric start. I also have a right side drive, right side start Husky with a 90* starter. It stops at the footpeg, not below. Had to jump on that so anything else seems like it's just laughably easy to kick start.
Put Billy Bolt on a TPI and he will beat anyone on a TBI. The TBI wont improve your technique which is 99.9% of the problem for 99.9% of people including myself. I don't want to mix gas either. What would be interesting with TBI is if aftermarket tuners will make multiple maps now that they can adjust both fuel and powervalve. I think this bike will have some very interesting qualities. Still not going to mix fuel though.
Mixing is just inconvenient. They could have oil injected the TBI easily, i'm guessing they chose not to for cost cutting and the boomers who are scared of technology.
Yeah oil injection is silly, you are right. I may as well go back to adjusting the point gap and making timing changes on a distributor cap while I am at it. Because you know. Doing things the old way is always better and all.
Thanks for making a great no fluff, no BS in depth video on these new bikes. To the point and well done!
I've put 2 hours on my new 300 XC TBI and all I can say is WOW! I'm coming off a 2019 350 XC-F and I race hare scrambles and enduros in FL/Southeast. Such a nice bike that feels lighter than it is and is very slim...
Like the adjustable by hand suspension! Definitely getting better every year !
I just love that you ended the video with an A7X song.... I'm sold, Sam.... I'm sold.
Best detailed video on the 23 I’ve seen👍
Thank you for the comprehensive review. I have a 300 SX coming. I raced motocross till 1994 and I started racing Enduro‘s and cross-country‘s but I decided to start racing some motocross this year. my current woods bike is a 2020 Beta 300 RR and the reason I went with Beta was because the 2020 KTM‘s I just didn’t feel they were 100% ready for the market for a $10,000 motorcycle at the time. I’ve had 28 KTM‘s ( 13 were 300s) and the only one I regret is the current 790 🍋🍋🍋🍋that I have because it’s a piece of junk and with 3400 miles on it.. this time the cams are bad and KTM says that I get the honor of paying the $1800 to fix it. I look forward to watching more of your fine videos.
I think the stock headlight is fine for just trail riding unless you are going to be riding at night. Works fine for making yourself visible. For street legal or night riding a better headlight is necessary.
I would definitely hope it makes more power than a tpi . My question is how does it run compared to a well tuned 12 to 16 pre counter balanced factory kehin carb bike as that is pretty much the bench mark for off idle snap although most have forgotten how good they were.
Sitting here with my 2014 Husaberg 300 thinking the same thing!
Great review -subscribed
Really? That's what I have. I just figured they kept getting snappier. But yeah I have zero complaints about the response and power delivery - pretty much perfection. They do have to be tuned in... Properly. But you get to.
Best detailed review I've seen! Well done! 👍
So if the rads are the same but the outlet points up… I wonder if we can fix the hose routing on our TPIs with these new rads?? I’m tired of needing layers of hoses and clamps and ties to stop the pv pinch
best walk through I have seen. Thanks for the good content
I ride back East mainly Woods single track, which do you think the XC or XC-W would work best? does the XC have the ambient air sensor? I love the XC-W but kind of worried about oil injection, I currently ride a yz250, I am used to pre mix.
I've held onto my 2019 TX300 because every TPI I've ridden needed a head and a tune to feel as strong as my carbed bike. Additionally I've fixed a half dozen TPIs that ran lean stock and melted pistons and one that cracked a cylinder.
This new TBI might convert me.
Just got my 1st real ride in on my TBI TX 300 after proper set up and I really like it! Might change to 13/52 to get more 3rd and 4th use on the New England terrain. The BRP mount with a weld on tower is a must for me on this bike. I wasn’t going to put a Rekluse in it, but I did and I’m happy with it. SXS skid even though it didn’t need it. A bolt on link skid is all it really needs. Even the plastic rad guards are built really well, but I still put the EE ones on. Tubliss F&B with a Fatty and 505. I guess I’ll figure out the fan situation during the winter, but it seems that the stators are weak and we will need a beefed up system for light and fan. Oh, and suspension is going out asap. Ravens and bladder kit.
How does the cover on the powervalve look as far as protection goes? Do you think a rock or branch could take out the powervalve assembly? Can it be bump started without the battery installed? Its a bummer that they didn't allow for a fan to be plugged in. That seems like a mistake to me.
Great breakdown and video. In your video closing were those slickrock trails near Moab or further North? Thanks
Are the bar mounts adjustable at all for a taller rider?
My 300 TPI is SOOOOOOsweeeeeet! But I love new tech and improvements, so I went down to my shop and got my out the door price at $13,500 for the new TBI 300. Then I'll want to put $2,000K worth of goodies, that makes it $15,500... Then I ended up going for a ride same day on my TPI 300, and it was SOOOOOsweeeeet - so I decided to let these bikes get out on the market and I'll buy one for about $9,000k used next year with about 12 hours. Thanks for the info!
I have loved my TPIs...and I am still keeping at least 1 of them. Nothing wrong with waiting in my opinion!
Found one for 8500 with 3 hours while watching this. Trying to decide bewtween 22 erzenburgh xcw or 23 xc
Thank you for this great comparison between the Old vs New KTM. Very detailed & concised. Happy New Year & ride safe : )
Thanks for the detailed breakdown!
The LED headlights are a little slimmer, I reckon they might fit on there without needing to relocate the wiring bracketry :-)
Which beaver tail did you get ? I just added an AXP skid to mine, but hate the 2 bolt front screws , would rather add tail to stock skid plate
I currently have a 21 300 XCW. I've been waiting for these to come out. I'm pretty sure I will buy one. The question is whether or not I will just get the 300 SX vs the XC. As far as I can tell, it is only a kickstand/5speed/larger tank for the 2K difference. I'm not wide open in 6th often. I could probably use that extra 2K towards my addons. I haven't seen any reviews yet though of the SX. I'm sure the suspension is a little stiffer but at 190lb I will be having it redone anyway.
Have you installed a fan? Experience?
Nice to see the improvements all around. After learning about the new TBI, however, I've gone out and bought a leftover TPI. I just don't care to mix fuel ever again. It's too bad KTM has given up on perfecting the TPI and gone to this compromise.
I am still riding and keeping my TPIs.
Love my 22 300XCW. Not mixing fuel is wonderful. I can share spare fuel with my 4S buddies if necessary. And the power delivery is smooooth and plentiful!👍
Will engine life be reduced with injection versus carburated?
Very thorough, thank you
Is that an enduro engineering linkage guard? It looks like it bolted right up to the stock skid plate
Thank you for the in-depth look at this bike. I have been going back and forth between this bike and the 300 XC-W. I’m really torn on which way to go? Any recommendations???
looks like a nice bike. i just bought a 21 TPI, I've got the TSP hi comp head (250). The bike is just fantastic, more than enough power, this one looks great but I'll probably stick with mine for a few years at least. As an XCW/woods-oriented rider it's probably more suited still for me anyways.
I would keep until KTM sees what works best.. TSP have the injector relocation kits, with is a mix of TPI and TBI
Very impressive engineering
Amazing bike
Great video. Probably the best one out there so far when it comes to showing meaningful differences. A new subscriber.
The fan mounts the same way??
What's with the Dribble out the exhaust?
Curious to know what the compression of the new bike is compared to your TPIs. Is it possible the SX and XXC are running a high compression head?
I’m interested in your take on the stiffness of the new frame design and suspension. I have heard some complaints. Even Roger mentioned set up issue with the new chassis on SML (of course he was talking about the MX team bikes, but the frame design is now the same I believe).
An exploratory so only an engineer could do; thanks! 💪😎☮️
Great video
I ride a 2021 Gas Gas ec300 TPI converted to TBI. The TBI made my bike more responsive and offered more bottom to midrange power.
I can't help to wonder if the 2023 TBI is even better !
I also have same bike as you have. Also switched to tbi and was running 80h with tbi (ignition replaced) but now I switched back to tpi, and I so happy with that. The tbi is more powerful more aggresive and response is better, but stability is worth ever. Always when I riding in the mountain in high I need to open air bypass more, and when I on the bottom need to close it.
One more disadvantage it is when you hit the log by rear wheel try to feel that you lost power (ussualy when you climbing heel and want to jump from the log), and when you breaking (I mean you have hight speed and you stop) the engine stalls. But it never heppen with tpi. Just want to say that tbi by replacing ignition on tpi is not perfect and has a lot disadvantage. I hope on new tbi they resolve all that things by correct engine map.
They now have linkage suspension on the KTM?
On the XC yes!
Very nice review and comparison. I have a 2018 300xc with a Keihin carb upgrade and a RK Tek head. Its an amazing bike but I would love to test ride that 2023!
Really great, review, appreciated it. nice shop too!
How come nobody has ever come up with a seat release better than the late 90's Husky/Cagiva? It's 1, 1/4 turn fastener at the back with slots on the front. Never broken, tool-less, and simple.
I also like how bike fuel injection is up to late 80's car technology. I dread working on my old TBI chevy, flashing lights for codes and all. Why can't they just put an OBDII port on the ECM and allow common scan tools to work? Would that be so horrible to share tech with cars?
I wish it was easier to get parts for my old Husky 360. Damn thing has been a tank. No high pressure fuel pump to fail, no oil injection to fail, no battery to die, no ECM to fail....
Electronics are great when they work, but damn do they suck when they fail and you can't even start to diagnose it on the trail.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the RK vs TSP heads and tunes on the TPI bikes. I ride mostly slow, tight rocky technical trails in 1-3 gear and wouldn’t mind a little more oomph from low to mid on my 22 300xcw. TIA.
TSP in Australia is far ahead of anybody with tuning 2T
Tsp head is my vote for you as well. The RkTek head is great for making the tpi very aggressive/ motocross like hard hit…which is not useful to me in techcnail singletrack, but good in hard wide open desert, sand hillclimbs, etc. whereas the TSP has great bottom end and mid improvement. Pulls hard, but doesn’t hit hard…of that makes sense. It’s easier to manage. Love my TSp high comp.
Other brands you maybe want low or mid head, but TSp I think High comp is the way to go and with their ecu reflash
Rk tek head, 2 turns out pv, no tune, 22 Erzberg is now a perfect, single track, gnar bike.
Trails wee 2nd gear and 3 rd couldn’t pull it, now I can use 3rd gear easily. Worth every penny.
Comes with new piston is that correct
Great review, is that the enduro engineering linkage guard?
Great video! I was wondering the same. Looking for a linkage guard and noticed you had one mounted.
Might be the add-on guard sold by RMATVMC...
Tusk kit, just have to cut and modify to fit.
What kind of linkage guard are you running? Thanks
Tusk universal kit, I had to cut and modify to fit. No biggy!
Sam- Excellent review. I appreciate it. Coming from a 21 I've been in debate. Sounds like a great change KTM has made.
Thanks brother!
Where is the oil tank?
premix. no oil injection
Not oil injected
How do you afford all these damn bikes?
I never buy new cars or trucks...
@@SOBchannel WORRRRRD!!!!
subscribed. Really have not seen any negative feedback on it. If you hit the start button while it's running it throws a code that imitates a PV problem... I'm sure you seen that. Nothing negative, I'm sure with "XC" suspension it will need a revalve for slow rocky terrain and rider weight, but everyone seems to indicate the stock suspension isn't that bad. ALSO.. looks like you have amazing places to ride. I'm guessing utah.
Yep, Utah! I actually had the problem with the code and had to have the dealer reset the hard code. I'm trying not to accidently hit the start button while its running. KTM will be pushing out a software update.
@@SOBchannel on my bucket list to at least ride Moab, slick rock and some of those places, little curious what we need as far spark arrestors Y/N and what type of pass or registration we need... mostly logistic stuff. and where to go to get the most stuff with least amount of travel once we get out there. I'm assuming we don't have to be street legal or have a tag. And probably spring time is the best bet for the weather and temps
No option for a kicker?
NO! Seems unsettling, but if your battery is dead, the injection system won't be able to start the bike anyway ☹
What is the weight of these bikes ?
My scale said 238 when it was full of fuel.
big hickup to buy with those composite sub frame :( 200 grams is not worth it... its a big deal changer when spare parts worth very high with importers :(
im sure its a blast to ride but ill wait till the problems surface. plus goddamn you KTm for taking away the kickstarter!! if you notice watching WESS the KTM riders have kickstarters. hmmm. wonder why
The lack of a kickstarter is no more a point of failure than the odds of "breaking a chain" or any other potentially catastrophic failure in my opinion, it's been going away for the last 5 years. It's archaic to kick start a bike now really... No offense.. Opinions are you know millions of them.
It can be bump started at least. Im liking this TBI so far but I would wait before I paid that amount of $.
@@jeff40 until you add a rekluse....
As shitty as these tiny power-sports batteries are I can't see relying on them for 100% of your starting needs. I've had a ton of times it was to cold for the battery to work, and just went and bump started it. It's also why I can't put a rekluse on it, which would take away most of the need for electric start.
I also have a right side drive, right side start Husky with a 90* starter. It stops at the footpeg, not below. Had to jump on that so anything else seems like it's just laughably easy to kick start.
Yeah nice looks like they have been listening to there factory riders the have to work on there bikes without assistance at certain events
Someone has plenty of 💰
Still nothing on the sherco factory
Put Billy Bolt on a TPI and he will beat anyone on a TBI. The TBI wont improve your technique which is 99.9% of the problem for 99.9% of people including myself. I don't want to mix gas either. What would be interesting with TBI is if aftermarket tuners will make multiple maps now that they can adjust both fuel and powervalve. I think this bike will have some very interesting qualities. Still not going to mix fuel though.
Mixing gas is so difficult. It is just a killer. /s
@@easternyellowjacket276 IMO It's so easy and the only way I've ever done it!
@@jeff40 Yep. It's amazing how soft people have become, eh?
Mixing is just inconvenient. They could have oil injected the TBI easily, i'm guessing they chose not to for cost cutting and the boomers who are scared of technology.
Yeah oil injection is silly, you are right. I may as well go back to adjusting the point gap and making timing changes on a distributor cap while I am at it. Because you know. Doing things the old way is always better and all.
I've heard stories about these blowing up, possibly thanks to cheaper internals.
Wash ya bikes mate
very well copied from TM.
He has had the electric valve for years.
and the TM bike is completely handmade.
Nice reveal bud, thank you!
ricky car ride ktm?