I am a carpenter by trade with a dualistic worldview who believes vehemently that truth is universally accessible and comes only at the end of a personal excursion wrought with acts of courage that are focussed and determine. Fortunately, this currency of truth, which is bathe in intellectual humility and self-criticism, always seeks to give reasons, provide evidence and make arguments, lends itself easily to public consumption. This type of engagement that is typically absent from our current public discourse, features front and centre in your presentations thus far, Dr Kuhn and as a consequence, it has inspired me to publish my two cents, hopefully to bring us “Closer To Truth”.
Good sign. Doubt beckons exploration. Meditate in silence, the realizations will come. Those who are cocksure are stuck, unable to explore other horizons and possibilities, unable to evolve.
If truth was simple then excitement would wane, truth is a process of ever evolving understanding it's organic grownth. As you grow in knowledge you grow in wisdom. We have to be humble in seeking truth and be aware of forces within us who will try to arrogate themselves to perception of truth of some form or other. Just remember, All cognition is a kin to recognition.
He really doesn’t want to get closer to the truth. They talk in circles. No one getting anywhere. All this channel is about is confusing people and making money.
Mr. Kuhn is the perfect host for this show, not just because it’s his show , but he listens intently, and has the intellect to challenge these ego soaked “ academic” types.
Don't you think it unfair to describe the academicians he interviews as " ego soaked". He manages to conceal his own convictions and beliefs during the discussions in order to 'bring out' the different points of view of others. The uncomfortable realization that existence is a mystery drives us to look for and find an explanation ? It is as if Dr Kuhn is playing the role of our own minds in their search for search for the meaning of life and ultimate reality,
I remember when about 10 ,sitting in the back garden, I suddenly realised I was trapped inside this body and I think I've been a bit of a coward ever since
Thats a natural feeling, you should meditate for sure. You might just find the entire universe is actually in your mind. So your not trapped you are all of the universe
CCT is one of the most prolific channels around. What a pleasure to wake up in the morning, with a cup of coffee, to pick on some old philosophical question. Here are some other considerations in the discussion. 1. Question the notion of "substance". This is one of the language traps (nouns and "things"). 2. I've been listening to some talks and interviews of Karl Friston. I think there is something to his description. It begins with some thermodynamic of "self" and "other". An oil drop illustrates this thermodynamic boundary. On the more animate side, there's the lipid bilayer of the cell wall. At its simplest, it includes "self" and "other" (environment), perception, motor control, inner representation mirroring the environment, the whole complex, acting together in a process. It is an "embodied" view. You can draw the line of for "consciousness" anywhere. Some talk in terms of "number of feedback loops" (e.g., Michio Kaku starts with a thermometer, then moves upwards). But a more intuitive dividing line might be the start of biological life. "Perception" is intimately related to consciousness. The bacterial cell has to sense its environment, then navigate it for "food" and survival. There is the outer reality and then some kind of internal modeling of it. Human beings have the latter in spades. They have a rich inner representation, a rich internal life. Human beings even have "meta-cognition", "model of a model of a model ...", "awareness of 'awareness'", awareness of "self" and its processes. Kurzgesagt has a nice explainer video on this. ua-cam.com/video/H6u0VBqNBQ8/v-deo.html&
_ How about non-dualism (advaita - literally meaning NOT TWO)? _ Non-dualism points to consciousness as the only reality. _ Consciousness (often equated with Awareness), is the basis and foundation of everything appearing as the world of dualism. _ To the 'limited'/(fixed by conditioning) mind, the world of dualism 'appears' as reality, whereas it is actually a modulation of the 'infinite' mind which in essence is consciousness/awareness. _ Rupert Spira masterfully discusses consciousness in his book "The Nature of Consciousness"
@@BrotherChad _ Thank you. Sometimes it happens that appropriate words come forth. Letting it happen is a delightful experience. _ Thank you for your input on this subject.
"Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise."(zen aphorism) It does appear that the nature of REALITY IN TOTALITY is beyond the strict categorization of any "ism". To know the mystery is to simply participate in it... without attempting to explain it. Cause you just can't! That's the beauty of it.
Peter Forrest hit the nail right on the head in my opinion. Once you see how confused and indefinite our notions of “Physical” and “Mental” are, Monism seems so obvious that it’s difficult to understand how you didn’t realize it before. It’s like a breath of fresh air
@@Micscience Monism is opposed to dualism. Monism says there is only one fundamental aspect to reality but dualism there's something other, hence two different aspects that comprises reality. Idealists and physicalists, though diametrically opposed, are both monists. To the physicalist, there is only the natural, material world and consciousness is nothing more than an emergent property of brain. The problem with that theory is that it still doesn't quantitatively describe what that emergent property is in the material sense. The idealist, being also a monist, believes there is only consciousness, and what we call the material world doesn't really exist or at least doesn't exist without consciousness. There's problems with that too or at least with how that theory isn't often compatible with our everyday experience. Then there's the dualist who thinks there's a real physical world, but there's something extra added, the immaterial soul which accounts for consciousness. Hope that helps.
@@geralddecaire6164 I always looked at dualism as there are two opposing realities countering each other. The positive and negative and a neutral I guess.
AS Michael Egnor said in his video: Michael Egnor: the evidence against materialism: " the object that neuroscience studies the mind and the brain is best understood by dualism and i believe that neuroscientist need to become more acquainted with dualism and need to understand the limitations of materialism which are profound and which are holding the science back. The natural world can be much better understood if you assume it has purpose, you assume it has design.
Bede: "It´s easy to see when someone is conscious?" Is it really? There is no consensus which lifeforms are conscious? We cannot tell if a person in a vegetative state has conscious experience?
No left without right no right without left No material without immaterial Abstraction defined as contradiction (when opposites come together) and mono polarity
Are you claiming that the distinction between left & right coordinates is a product of abstraction, like, if we didn’t have abstracts then there wouldn’t be left & right coordinates? The very fact that the presentation of a sensible object is conditioned under such coordinates proves that they’re not; as the presentation of a sensible object is independent of abstracts, their coordinate properties, i.e., one part of the sensible object being to the left or right of another part of the sensible object, would therefore be too.
I still can’t understand consciousness. But I find Yijin’s philosophy too rigid. Like his tidy life and mind, every explanation requires an answer that can be tied up neatly in a bow. So that’s how he pursue his ‘truth’. But Life gets messy and often is. I steer towards Dualism.
I wish I was more academic so I could talk like these people but, when I try to understand their observations, it seems to me they're using fancy words and phrases to say they don't really have a clue. In some ways, this comforts me because I don't like the idea of missing out on something as crucial as what reality really is because I don't have a genius IQ.
Hey RIC, my guess is that you already possess all the intelligence needed. These academics, like all specialists, are simply more used to thinking along these lines and using these specialized words.
@@MichaelEhling Thanks for the compliment. Sometimes, I think these clever chaps like to use esoteric phraseology for self aggrandisement. If the message gets lost in that detail, then communication stops and ego is taking over... imho!
Most of these interviews have no substance, they just say they don't know or give unintuitive or nonsensical explanations. Richard Swinburne gave an excellent argument from epistemology that consciousness is primary and cannot be doubted to exist, whereas matter is a theory; but then he went on to his argument how splitting a brain does not account for the self, thus the self must exist? Seems pretty circular, since materialists say there is no such thing as self apart from the brain, and so yes there would be two selves. I think you only need one argument, regardless of how complex a computing system like a brain is, it cannot create something new, thus consciousness cannot be emergent but fundamental. That one pretty much closes the case for me, materialism is dead.
You explained it,,a lot of fancy words and degrees to say you don’t know,,it’s funny,,they’re hitting the walls of quantum physics,,some scientists are getting philosophical and turning to eastern religion for help,,
23:08 - So, I'm having a bit of trouble following this last guy. Is he basically saying that the pattern of electrical activity we observe in the brain is just what consciousness "looks like" as a physical perception? That seems to be dodging the core issue, but it's still an interesting contention.
Swinburne was only able to make the point that linguistically speaking, when we refer to 'me' or 'you', we are referring to more than simply the physical brain. His arguments did nothing to argue for the point that this psychology that we consider to be 'me' or 'you' could not be entirely explained in terms of physical causes and phenomena. Of course when we talk about 'me' or 'you' we don't just mean the brain - we mean the psychology and the personality that is linked to this body that we associate with it.
@Jon I don't agree with Swinburne's argument because I reject the dichotomy of mental and physical - since I believe that to have a 'mental' duplicate of myself, I am also drawing on physical and physiological identities. Swinburne's argument relies on the ability to separate mental and physical, which cannot be shown simply by the fact that we refer to them in different ways, or have separate concepts for these alleged classes. I wasn't suggesting that Swinburne was actively trying to use a linguistic trick, but pointing to the fact that, from a non-dualist standpoint, that is ultimately the only conclusion we can validly draw from the argument - because Swinburne's argument attempts to use our concepts to come to conclusions about reality, which ultimately depends on whether or not our linguistic and conceptual understanding of reality is accurate, which is not necessarily the case. I'm not going to suggest that you 'don't understand the argument', but simply that we have different starting points when analysing it, in terms of beliefs and concepts. Ultimately, I believe that arguments come to a stalemate on this matter, because from my point of view, as with most ontological arguments, we cannot draw certain conclusions about the metaphysical simply from what we ourselves deem to be logically possible. If you don't share that view then you will be able to accept many arguments that I reject on that basis.
@Jon but that is exactly the point - from my point of view, a physicalist one, I don't find the argument convincing because I understand that the arguments he is making is not really a danger to my belief, because it only works if you presuppose the truth of a dualist world. In this way, it can act as a means of confirmation for people who already believe in these views, i.e that have already accepted the _dualist_ dogma. It's not necessary for you to immediately jump to ad hominem arguments - while I am talking about the argument Swinburne makes and the assumptions required for you to accept it, you jump straight to me being a dogmatic physicalist who can't appreciate the possibility of other points of view. Your response is hypocritical, considering my previous reply, which was highlighting the exact point that you're trying to make towards me, but in a less aggressive way. I'm not attempting to criticise you for being a dualist who can't see the error of their ways, all I'm saying is that this argument only works by presupposing the dualist veiw, ie by begging the question, and so is not a compelling argument if the point is to do anything other than convincing people who already believe the final conclusion.
One must contend with a special idea in this context (but not only in this context, and that is important also). It is that monism is not as attractive an idea as it at first seems, but rather it is also not merely a "substance per se" that is what is at issue, either. There may be one "fundamental substance" say, and yet it matters what state it is in, as it cannot meaningfully generate some phenomenon without being in a particular state. That gives a special valence to the configuration of substance that exceeds the considerations of the substances per se (in themselves). That form has its own content, and merely that content extrapolates itself through formal articulations that add no dimensions of phenomena in their own right. This is also not incompatible with substance dualism, which raises the interest.
To people who say "I've never opened up the brain and saw a thought" I would respond with "I've never opened up a computer GPU and found an image." A computer is a very complicated machine composed of simple parts with the amazing ability to turn information into images, sound and more. Your brain is also a very complicated machine composed of simple parts with the amazing ability to turn information into images, sound and more.
@H D you're pretty much saying the same thing, except you're asserting that atoms are conscious and billions of atoms together form a more complex conscious. Why then are rocks not conscious?
The thought of person being machines (and everything else) is quite dangerous, and will not lead to any good. Take a look at this chap. A real Scientist. ua-cam.com/video/HybPD0VsFP0/v-deo.html
@@rubiks6 that's because your brain is running very complex software built up over time specifically to process incoming data from your senses. Reductive materialism works just fine.
Below quote from St Francis cleared all my confusion Yoga says: Your true SELF is God. You just have to drop your chronic thinking 😃 Consciousness is God. Every living being is a reflection of God in an imperfect mirror Read "be as you are" by David Goodman
Dualism is absolutely a very real possibility. Look around you, there is an equal and opposite to everything. Physical-Spiritual, Female-Male, Life-Death, Day-Night, Hot-Cold, Up-Down, positive-negative...everything you can think of. However, I think it is more than simply that because there is always the transition between the two extremes. Regardless, there is always one or the other as the ultimate goal or end point. I really feel there is our physical reality and experience, while equally there is a spiritual or afterlife that is equally as real (whatever your interpretation of what "real" means). There is also the transition that occurs between the two BUT we ultimately end up in one state or the other. Since we are energetic beings and you don't create energy, it always exists and just manifests in different ways. Our conscious energetic beings transition from one state to the other ALL the time.
My dear Sir/Madame, you are forgetting that between those two polar states are multiple continuous states! Everything seems to be "Flowing" from one state to another per unit time.
Consciousness precedes life. When we die, we won’t actually die. We will just continue but in a different form. The brain is more of an antenna than a device that creates consciousness.
The brain isn't an antenna, that's just wishful thinking as you wish for your existence not to end. The brain looks nothing like a "device " that broadcasts "consciousness". It has many parts completing seprate functions, all of which is done continuously with the rest of the body. So saying it's an antenna is as ridiculous as saying the eye is an "antenna" for seeing.
@@2CSST2 Well, eye can actually be an antenna because the comment which u are seeing is processed in brain occipital lobe and eye is the medium of that.
Only your own experience can ever show you these truths. There is little that can be shown to convince anyone. Yet if you are truly open you can find ample evidence online and elsewhere from physicists, doctors, spiritual teachings, ancient wisdom, lay people, children, channeled material, books, recordings, and many many others all of which converge to the same truth. I too used to think this to be nonsense but I kept an open mind and questioned everything. Do your best to stay open and you WILL discover what many are now discovering about our (humans) true nature.
If we accept the idea of logical constraints in the fundamental operations of reality, then consciousness is the only thing that needs to exist. In fact, consciousness itself defines the constraints.
Wow! Amazing how many ways you can see things! I keep it simple. I am conscious, and everything is experience, the profound well of insight, clarity, wisdom and understanding. I draw from that well through meditation. 🙏
Honestly, to me, that is simple, just not in the way you intended. It's simplistic. Try this: my brain draws data through my senses, which is stored in my brain. My brain stores and uses this data to send signals to every single part of my body and makes each part act according to the data that it has previously received. Genes are the same only in like a much bigger scale. Maybe you won't have to spend so much time meditating if you think of it like this. It makes me happy to think that I understand how my body and brain works and I want everybody to feel the same way. And as Lanier kind of said on the video we should just focus on what we can actually work with.
Me too! Or at least get like really close to the point where we can determine a border separating what we clearly can perceive, understand and study and what we can not. I think there will always be such a limit, like right now our limit is the quantum world (planck is the smallest magnitude we can work with, if I'm not wrong).
Consider the thought experiment were we exactly duplicate a man ( as in Trek TNG episode Second Chances) At the moment of duplication we have two bodies with identical atoms and identical electrical signals in their brains. But we have two completely separate and unique consciousnesses. How can this be explained using a materialistic interpretation?
That's one of my favorite thought experiments. You end up with two men and briefly they're identical in every way and they're both conscious and immediately after they're duplicated, their conscious experiences are exactly the same. They're both in exactly the same mood and thinking the same thing. Why is that hard for a materialist to explain? The brain makes the mind. If you duplicate the brain, then two brains will generate separate but identical minds.
Consciousness is simply the result when Spirit interacts, or manifests as, Matter. Matter is Spirit at it's lower state, and vice versa. Ancient wisdom/knowledge, this is.
@@cango5679 Well, consciousness is consciousness, whether it pertains to the self or to some universal cosmic entity, is it not? The essential characteristics are the same.
@@Arunava_Gupta The essentials are the same, of course. But there is a big difference between a plant that is conscious of it's environment - it responds to the sun, the soil, the rain etc, - and being conscious that it is conscious. The manas, the thinking aspect is not there. Not until the human state of evolution you get that self consciousness. (and it keep evolving beyond our state, of course, into higher ways/states. ) But the principles are one and the same. That's at least what I have come to understand, in my ,very much limited, state.
@@cango5679 Thanks for replying. But, of course, there are stages and grades of evolution with varying degrees of consciousness, but all of this has reference to conscious personalities in embodied form. That's what ancient wisdom says. These are all purusas, spiritual personalities, with the essential characteristic of consciousness. But, sticks and stones, chairs and tables, jars and pots, all these belong to an altogether different ontological category with diametrically opposite essential characteristics (non-sentient, mutable, evolutive, etc.). These belong to the category of prakriti, not purusa; and this is what I was referring to.
Sadly, nobody understands consciousness, but I must admit it is very interesting. Animals with senses, such as vision, must be conscious of their environment. Consciousness has obvious evolutionary benefits.
I enjoyed the show, engaging as always..I suspect MOST of the viewers of this channel accept Evolution through natural selection as the process that led from simpler life to us.. THEN why do people have a hard time accepting that consciousness EVOLVED complexity as well.. We see the same curve in animal species today! Metaphysical alternatives are impossible to falsify.. A naturalistic evolution in the complexity and gradualistic emergence of consciousness seems self- evident..Peace.
@@jordancox8294 Consciousness is the functioning of the reticular formation in the brain stem. Remove this structure and you are comatose! All biology, not woo woo!
@@jordancox8294 A CAREFUL reading of my comment gives the most likely description of what consciousness is.. An emergent property of the manner in which our brain processes, stores, and retrieves information.. A very SIMPLE naturalistic explanation with the highest probability of being correct.. Thanks for your comment friend..
@@GeoCoppens I would further suggest that a COMPULSION to understand the physical world is deeply rooted in our DNA.. When a logical (Or scientific) explanation is unavailable, ANY mental construct will suffice to assuage this irresistible compulsion.. ONE mans humble opinion..
We know about the world through observation and experience. When we say we "know" about ourselves, the way we know is different from the way we know the physical world, it's not that our selves are different from the physical world, it's that the way we come to know ourselves is different. We know ourselves through our own private experiencing of our thoughts, memories and feelings. The way we know about other people is by observing them and understanding their reasons and motivation for what they do. Looking for reasons and assuming that other's actions are motivated by their private thoughts and feelings is mostly a different kind of knowing than our knowledge about the physical world. Thoughts and feelings are not experienced as observables in the external world, they are experienced as emerging into our conscious awareness from inside of us. When we try to understand others we can't see their thoughts and feelings, so we have to extrapolate from observations of their behaviour and from our own memory of ourselves or of others. This requires empathy, the ability to imagine ourselves in another's place. This is a different way of knowing than knowing about the geology of the earth or the nature of the universe. What I'm getting at is that you don't need to draw the conclusion of dualism from the fact that we know our selves in a completely different way than we know the external world.
Personal Conclusions from various sources "We Are All One Consciousness" for the following reasons: 1. In this world everything must have a cause, so that something exists because of something else, as well as ourselves. 2. It will be very saturating / boring if we have only one physical form in this world. 3. It will be very saturating / boring if all human beings have the exact same physical form behavior. 4. Try to imagine emptying all the physical things around us only the remnants of humanity, then eliminating all human beings leaving only their memories, then removing all their memories leaving only their consciousness, then connecting that consciousness, feel who we are ??. 5. Body, mind, feelings, emotions and everything in this world is always changing, so what never changes ??, that is our true self, which is true consciousness. If everything changes2 / moves who observes, there must be something fixed to be able to observe. 6. All human beings communicate with each other is the beginning of the beginning / the future of human beings unite, only electronic devices today can unite all human beings, one day the device is implanted in the human mind and eventually man will open all access to his mind. 7. Our body is a group / accumulation of memory accumulated brought from the beginning of the birth of the first human in the world through continuous DNA binding. 8. Twins are born at the same time, what if all human beings are born at the same time ??. What happens if the birth of all human beings is not influenced by the dimensions of space and time ?? 9. The twins are identical to A and B, if the whole memory of A is copied to B, what is the difference ?? 10. The law of attraction (law of attraction) that our minds will attract whatever we think, because we are all like one part of the body. 11. Like some of the video recordings of ourselves there is a video as a vocalist, a video as a violinist, as a pianist, as a drummer, etc. The video2 is made into one in one video then it will produce a more interesting orchestra, something new and more productive. our world. 12. Man's greatest enemy is himself, at this time man is fighting against himself. By believing that we are all one, then the ego will fade because there is no difference between us. 13. That is why the teachings of religion command us to be grateful and beneficial to many, If you are hurting others you are actually hurting yourself, just as if you are doing good to others you are actually doing good to yourself. 14. Could it be that we are all dreaming and our dreams meet each other at the same frequency in parallel. Have you ever, when sleeping dreamed of moving roles as someone else, it is because we are all one. 15. We are not immortal as human beings so that we have time for us to scroll through all of life. 16. "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience" ~ Stephen Covey, Have you ever felt that our age is too short, could our consciousness be immortal ?. 17. We are one, only the role is different, the memory block between life is what makes people feel different / separate. Just by brainwashing / erasing his memory then someone will be a different person but his consciousness actually remains the same. One consciousness experiences various perspectives of reality. 18. The lucky thing for us is ... awareness is always towards / seeking / having intentions / desires towards good / positive / happiness despite experiencing various mistakes. 19. When we die the body and memory are destroyed, how can we remember ever being dead. 20. Why do we have to die? ", When we are told to die, later this eternal question will be asked again and we will always be there." The world is a sustainable life "~ Bruce Lipton 21. In the beginning we were one, but split through a big explosion or bigbang to become different and separate as it is now, but we are provided with a sense of love for us to be able to be reunited later. 22. There is only us and the mirror of ourselves in this world, yet there is another world out there. 23. We will always smile happily seeing each other as ourselves "How beautiful I am" seeing a different self. 24. If all consciousness is told now that they are all one if the experience gained is enough, the consciousness designed from the beginning is so different that there is so much intrigue, consciousness is created differently so that when it comes together it has an incredible consciousness experience. 25. We are indeed alone in this universe, but there are still many other universes with their own laws of nature. 26. Have you ever felt to come to a place that has never been visited but feel familiar with that place, as if we have lived in that place sometime. 27. The world is like a script of a story that is being written by the author, sometimes changed at the beginning, sometimes changed in the middle, sometimes changed at the end it all depends on us as writers, and every story has wisdom that can be taken as a lesson. 28. Hair grows on its own, heart beats on its own, blood flows on its own, ideas emerge on its own, etc., are we involved ??. 29. Imagine today there was an event that caused only you to live in this world, then who are all the people yesterday ??. 30. "If Quantum Mechanism cannot surprise you, then you do not yet understand Quantum Physics. Everything we have considered real all this time, turns out to be unreal." ~ Niels Bohr. 31. In the scale of quantum physics we are all connected to each other, even in double gap experiments proving that particles change when observed or in other words awareness is able to change reality, this has been repeatedly proven by Nobel laureate in Physics. 32. Everything we experience by our senses will eventually only be an electrical impulse in the brain, is it all real ??. We are beings who realize that we are conscious. 33. We are closer than the veins of his neck. He breathes some of His spirit on you. Knowing oneself means knowing one's God. Indeed, we will return to HIM. You are far I am far, you are near I am near. I am everywhere. Before the existence of this world there was no material other than Him. The True Spirit is only One, the Creator. I agree with your prejudice. 34. Whether the Creator is only tasked with creating, is it possible that the creator does not want to try the results of his creation through another perspective. 35. There is no reincarnation, it is possible that our consciousness is synchronizing, our consciousness is divided by the speed of light so that consciousness can move and divide quickly through energy, and that is why we need sleep, that is why we often do not realize something, that is why the size of the earth is reached by the speed of light so that consciousness is divided quickly and evenly, we are like some chess pawns played by a player, that is why if we move at the speed of light, then we can penetrate the dimensions of space and time, when we die we wake up and regain consciousness as long as there are human beings living in this world. 36. Have we ever had a problem and suddenly someone came to provide a solution to the problem we are experiencing, as if someone was sent by the universe to help us in solving the problem, which is actually our own awareness that sends that person to us. 37. A thousand years ago did human beings see, hear and be trapped in their hearts about current technological advances ??. If we all tend to sin (damage) then it will be the world of hell, if we all tend to do good then it will be the world of heaven. 38. Knowledge learns objects, God who created our consciousness, does not allow God to be objects of knowledge. 39. It is not possible for human creation which is only in the form of words / symbols to represent true truth.uyty 40. Is there a meaning of being without consciousness ?? then we are adventurers of this existence. Sy 41. The life of the world is just a game and a joke, the one who wins the game of the world is the one who finds his true self. 42. When the existence of the world ends we will know everything. 43. My consciousness undergoes a very extraordinary life experience, feeling life experience with different forms and different places even though in fact my consciousness is always the same, wow .. I was surprised !! how wide I am. 44. Consciousness in fact does not know the concept of time, consciousness can experience / undergo into another physical form because the dimension of time can be penetrated by consciousness, as when we imagine we can act as anyone without time bound, because in this universe time can in fact materialize free, time can move straight, curved, rotate, etc. Our time travel is when our consciousness moves to a new physical experience. 45. We are an awareness, a concept that is able to answer various things. 46. Remember when you were going to leave, you were worried about losing me ??, calm down .. I was everywhere and we would always be able to meet again, believe me. 47. Without searching what is the difference between us in this world and us in a dream while sleeping just passing by without meaning 48. In conclusion, whatever role we play, it is all our own design, so just enjoy. 49. I never said that self is God, I thought that self is one consciousness, God should be higher and perfect than consciousness. 50. God created us to be Happy, so do not disappoint God. Understand it and be Shining. Source of inspiration : ua-cam.com/video/LtT8pWIYL4Q/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/h6fcK_fRYaI/v-deo.html
@Jon ok i agree, everyone is not me, why do I care, I will only help people if I need them, it's not my business if they suffer prolonged suffering, anyway they're not me, so I just let people suffer, there is no benefit for me if I take care of them.
I think consciousness is like water. It behaves differently in various states. This could give the illusion of dualism when it is actually monism. Imagine a dream. You feel like you are a distinct consciousness within your dream. But what is the dream world made of? You consider the dream world to be distinct from your consciousness in the dream. But they are both consciousness.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL There are degrees of subtlety to consciousness and other factors to consider like memory which contribute to the recollection of being in the deeper meditative states, so any accounts of not being conscious is only a phenomenological interpretation after the fact. We could also call such states 'objectless consciousness'.
It seemed like the physicalists, at least some of them, kept trying to have aspects of dualism as an escape hatch while saying they weren’t dualists. Struggled with their positions.
@@danzigvssartre No personal offense intended friend.. You can "LIKE" your own comments, but it doesn't add any validity to your Bronze Age ideas.. Your beliefs in PURELY assumptive knowledge, puts you in an ever-dwindling minority of supernaturalists.. Even mainstream philosophy is largely abandoning the idea, but feel free to believe in ghosts and goblins..
Not so fast Bucko...Those ole Vedic monks have done empirical studies where they 'proved' they were conscious during deep sleep. My remembrance of the study was they were asked questions while in deep sleep (confirmed by brainwave states) and were asked to blink yes or no...And they blinked correctly. Not proof entirely but evidence that they remained conscious even in the deep sleep state. But it goes further because the lore of that tradition is that it's only the mastery of the deep sleep state that can get one out of this 'Bardo hell'.. See the Tibetan Book of The Dead...
@@666summerz Christian Gnostics are the irreverent hippies of Christendom and we don't take this place seriously...We are consistently murdered and our metaphysical narrative is consistently wiped off the face of the earth, though, so that much I take seriously... BTW: I think it's the Book Of Peter wherein it is said the Aeon Kristo was in hysterics when the Sanhedrin council tried to kill him...An impossibility! The Book of Judas suggests it was Yaldabaoth that tried to put him to death...It's also said in other writings that Yaldabaoth, at some time in cosmological history, was shown a vision of the Aeon Kristos (and rejected it) so this cosmological war was well in play 2000-years ago as it is today... Of course, this is all speculative cosmology.
Actually, we are, we just have no recollection of those conscious states; just like a child in the womb, at a certain point, is sentient or conscious but will have no recollection of it in life. Blacking out is another example, as a person who’s blacked out, say, from deep inebriation, has no recollection of it later but was nonetheless conscious during that whole time. So that a lack of a recollection of conscious states isn’t equivalent with a lack of conscious states.
The universe is BOTH physical and non-physical at the same time. Truth is a paradox but with understanding this seeming conflict of opposing views can be appreciated as two poles of Truth operating on different sides of the same spectrum.
only substance dualism makes sense. We should conceive a scientific soul that is interacting with physical matter of our body and brain. I have tried this in my book- consciousness explained scientifically by substance dualism: demonstrates the existence of the soul and God. This clearly tells that we can conceive a scientific soul.
Depends on what you mean by "make sense". The test of a scientific theory is if can make exact predictions that can be shown to be wrong. What would disprove your theory?
@@myothersoul1953 my theory predicts that we are alone in the universe. We can never find other life anywhere else. Also there cannot be a second chance of life on earth as well. If we ever find life anywhere else then my theory will prove wrong.
The Universe of your perceptions is a virtual-reality illusion, as max Planck understood. (See his 1944 Florence, Italy lecture on the nature of matter.) ALL IS THOUGHT IN A GREAT MIND. If you want to know more, including the answer to the coronavirus, give me a 'click".....
@@myothersoul1953 It should likely be true for all times if my theory built around soul is correct. It also provides a likely cause of the beginning of cosmos.
Guided Meditation they have no relation whatsoever. That’s like saying , “fire is a gas, therefore consciousness is not spiritual or ethereal.” Doesn’t make sense really
Dualism is always secretly unity in disguise of separation. When all is one and connected, separation is an illusion. Nothing is truly separate as all is of the one monad mind. Duality is a fallacy. We do not live in a physical reality; physical reality is an illusion that lives within you. Your thoughts, words, and actions co-create your own reality. Sending love to the great ALL disguised as many however, through singularity consciousness we are all truly ONE. There is no we or us just one consciousness within all, on different levels of conscious awareness. ONE
When, when, when is Kuhn going to interview Bernardo Kastrup about Idealism? Kuhn's failure to do so to date is ...well, a real failure. At some point, this failure will be more evidence of just how pathetically close-minded (and tribal) even the most allegedly open-minded seekers are.
Empirical science is the closest thing to truth and knowledge we can ever have, other of course than the knowledge that you exist. It doesn't explain everything, but it paints a very extensive picture of the world and the way it works, and many ideas aren't compatible with what it's painting... like dualism
Max science “may be” the best tool leading us to truth and knowledge, yes, but that does not detract from my original statement that “empirical science cannot explain everything. If you like and request I can give you an example which will leave you dumbfounded or perhaps impressed.
Consciousness. My take on it has come from many years of being aware that it separate from the physical the material. So some will understand what I’m saying and others will dismiss it as rubbish. The reason I’m convinced it more then just the body is because I’ve been having experiences for as long as I can remember that could be called out of body. Even I would call these experiences nothing but a construction of the mind if there hadn’t been a percentage of them that could be put into context. I’ve come to believe that everything that has life is connected to a central conscious that exists apart from our physical reality. I believe we are projected into this reality. I don’t come to this conclusion because I’ve studied Eastern Philosophy or any religion I come to it from experience and context. Out of all my experiences on occasion I have one that can be linked to our reality through its context. Many times I have random experiences that are linked to horrific events but on a small scale. Like someone being murdered car accident and other similar events. Sometimes I have them related to world changing events. Three weeks before the earthquake that caused the Fukushima disaster I found myself viewing it from the perspective of someone that was there. Walking through the aftermath in a group of others seeing the damage I could smell the air feel the dampness I could see the wreckage and I could see the people around me were Asian. At that time I could only conclude that there would be a tsunami somewhere In Asia. And yes I tell people. The ones that know have no doubt but I’m usually treated with doubt. Over the years this has happened a number of times. 9-11 airplane disasters fires and so on. At the time of these great events random number generators start to not be so random. What I’m proposing is all things alive weather that’s a tree a cat a blade of grass or a human being are connected back to a central conscious. I’m not comparing conscious to intelligence though they could be intertwined.
@Ric Brunner -- fyi, it's 'whether'. Congratulations, from reading your post I gather that you possess at least a good semblance of sanity. A life of experiences like that would drive me batshit crazy.
thomas smith Yes I’ve had an interesting and great life and hopefully I will have many more years. I’ve experienced much. I have nothing to do with the random out of body experiences they just happen. I tend to know things before they happen, like phone calls or if I’m going to get a ticket. I’ve learned over the years how my underlying tone is giving me a clue. I images many people have this but don’t pay attention to it. I don’t clam to be special and I don’t brag. It just is what it is. Thank you.
25:40 - We all know that our minds can create extremely vivid dreams. The main difference between "real life" and dreams is that the dreams are generally more fuzzy and ephemeral - dream worlds don't seem to have the "rigor" of physical law. But consider the possibility that the "real world" would be a dream that's being shared by at least billions of separate consciousness minds. It's entirely possible that results in the rigorous, repeatable behavior. It's one thing for you to "mess around" in a dream that you're having alone - that doesn't necessarily mean you can do the same in a multi-billion-mind dream. I have no evidence to cite for this, but I see no reason to consider that idea implausible.
An extended structuralism takes care of all areas, layers, theories, perspectives, in context (and within their limits), often interlinked and translatable into each other. Many academics who are not proponents of a SINGLE model adopt some sort of model like that, which can also be deemed a standard model of academic rationality and openmindedness (often just tacit or implicit).
consciousness is the movement of the I, the me, the self, the observer, the experiencer, the interpreter, the controller, the chooser, the censor, the meditator, which is an illusion invented from the past conditioning of the brain. consciousness has many levels. Consciousness has no levels. consciousness is a chemical mechanical process of the brain. Consciousness IS NOT a chemical mechanical process of the brain. consciousness is a bundle of memory. Consciousness IS NOT a bundle of memory. consciousness originates in the brain. Consciousness DOES NOT originate in the brain. consciousness invents reality. Consciousness is the movement of Truth. Total Freedom from consciousness is the beginning of Consciousness. Consciousness is the movement of Inner Silent Space. When there is Consciousness, there is Perceiving without the lens of memories. It is Perceiving without the perceiver. This Consciousness is what we call Heart, Soul, Spirit. Then and only then is there Love, Peace, Joy, Goodness, Kindness, Compassion (Passion for All), Beauty, Creativity, Feeling, ExperiencING, Lucidity, Truth, and Wisdom. Then and only then is there Communication, Communion, Connection, Relationship with everyone and everything, for the very first time, in each and every moment of daily life.
Inner Total Freedom is actually being Totally Free of fear, anxiety, suffering, confusion, alienation, addictions, envy, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, hatred, violence, bias, and prejudice in daily life, once and for all, now forever. Totally Free of beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, theories, opinions, perspectives, biases, prejudices, nationality, and identifications, which limit, color, shape & distort Perception, and therefore, prevent Lucidity. Totally Free of the I, the me, the self, the observer, the chooser, the experiencer, the interpreter, and the so-called True or Higher Self, which is the invention of the past conditioning of the brain, which acts like an inner tyrant who tells you what to think, how to feel, and what to do. They actually treat everyone, without exception, with the same intensity and quality of care and affection that they would give their dearest closest friend, lover, or child, without any sense of division, separation or distance in daily life, once and for all, now forever. Inner Total Freedom is actually Living Love, Peace, Joy, Truth, Creativity, Compassion (Passion for All). Communicating, Communing, Connecting with everyone and everything, in each and every moment of daily life.
Inner Total Freedom does not take time. It is not of time. It is not the result of time or the things of time. It is not the result of any method, ritual, or diet. It is not the result of any chemical. It is not the result of any process. There is no path to it. It happens effortlessly and choicelessly...faster than the speed of light. Moreover, it is once and for all, now and forever.
I like the honesty of Jaron Lanier... To claim any certainty that Physicalism or Idealism or Dualism is right, with, IMO, spurious arguments, is really only guessing. We must walk the tightrope between superstition and unjustified reductionism. Personally, I neither want to exist as me forever, nor be totally extinguished. Both seem to suffer our Western bias of Individualism.. I therefore hope for a more holistic and relational ontology where my identity which is physical, ceases to exist, but consciousness (which is what I think I really am at root) dissolves into a universal consciousness that is constantly being manifested. It makes me a part of everything sentient. However, maybe all that matters is what ontology helps you to live a better life.
Whereas 'dualism" is a principle of local time/space, Singularity, is the "seat" of all Consciousness. This, is what the pineal gland is for... to receive from Singularity, whereby Consciousness is diffused into duality - left/right brain hemispheres etc., for the experiential process.
*_“… Every one who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”_* Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955), founder of modern physics (Theory of Relativity inter alia) and 1921 Nobel prize winner
I just can’t escape the impression that non-dualists all seek to either deny or downgrade consciousness, when, to most people, consciousness is the most immediate and certain thing that there is. In this sense, non-dualist approaches are all hopelessly lacking.
Especially people claiming the mind to be an illusion which would require a subject to be fooled and this subject is the same as the mind just claimed to be the illusion. Circular?
The first line of the kybalion is All is Mind. Maybe it's on to something? I'm getting more and more certain that man's "fall" is thinking dualistic. This is a very good channel.
No dualism cannot explain consciousness. Dualism is an aspect of consciousness, the feeling of being other instead of being one with the whole. There is good and bad rather than good only or bad only. Actually all is triune, as Chinese philosophy has it, nothing happens without three. The Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which is symbolizes Consciousness and Participation in Consciousness, as an Entity and the Vibration which makes the objective, manifest aspect of Consciousness possible. What is so hard to understand about that? it is the way Religion sees it and it is absolutely correct.
@@Ravenstudios-s5o it wasn't a case of not believing in the self but more seeing and experiencing the sense of a self as illusory. Belief plays no part in the cannon of Buddhism, experience and exploration are the language used.
You are on the right track, Slar....fast. My book offers a revelation of these truths, as delivered by The Mind that is All. And if you want the answer to the coronavirus, give me a "click".....
18:45 'Does it make demands on anything outside the natural world?' But the natural world is only available to us through five senses. How can we be sure ALL that the natural world actually is? What if we had another one or two senses? What if consciousness IS another one of our senses? The five senses would tell us about the 'natural' world; consiousness being the sense that allows us to experience our Selves.
What we mean physical ?. We can think (lemon) we right away experience water and different sensual changes in the body biology without seeing the lemon . 🙏🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
That consciousness is an "illusion," begs the question. For illusion presupposes consciousness, which takes us back then to Descartes' "cogito, ergo sum."
The Bible starts out with the statement, "First there was the word." My life did not start out that way. When I was very young, maybe one or two years young, I was lying in my crib, having a spell of nightmares. the nightmares were always the same: I was in a reddish-brown dimly-lit cave lined all around with crumbling worm-like entities. I was scared and repulsed by being in there. When that experience got scary and repulsive enough, I cried for help. My vocabulary wasn't large. My mother came out of her bedroom, the room adjacent to the one I was in. I sensed she was asking me to tell her what was the matter. I do not know what sounds I actually made, and I clearly remember trying to say something like, "full of worms." My consciousness was conceptual before it was verbal. Many years later, I realized (with a start) I was probably having nightmares stemming from the trauma I felt during my travels through the birth canal. During the mornings of these same days, I had learned to wait impatiently for the sunlight to travel across the pattern of Bo-Peep figures on pink wallpaper until it touched a certain one, then I would cry to be taken out of my crib. Consciousness was, from the beginning, the medium through which I experienced and interacted with the world. My brain wasn't well-developed and I was unquestionably inexperienced, yet I had experiences of which I was fully conscious and I created memories that lasted to this day, now, many decades later. Then as now, I sense my brain is tuned to a medium which serves as a carrier to me of my reality.
The perch description is one I can comprehend and while not the same reminds me of how I feel on a wall... ON one side the "woowoo" that I do not deny but also seek not to fall into.... but then to the other side seems dry, denying, less experience.... On the wall there is experience, there is questioning, there is possibility.
Personally I do feel that purely physical (as it is understood now) seems difficult. I believe in something of a consciousness... but I could say that it is a monistic or pan (dual/pan). I like that idea of organizing ignorance.
We know now about the illusion of conscious decision making. That our brain makes decisions much faster than we can rationalize it and communicates to our frontal cortex, which then rationalizes the decision. What if consciousness is just the same? Just the frontal cortex rationalizing the sensory data collected by the rest of your body, together with your memory. Just a story generated by your brain to facilitate the processing of all this data. Then it looks so much like the "front end" of software. The UI elements making it easier for the complex funcionality to interact with external stimulii. Not saying I'm right, but I have this feeling sometimes, that its not the physical or spiritual worlds that are illusions, but consciousness itself. But who knows.
You're basically explaining physicalism in simpler terms, I think, and I agree. It's very hard not to make the comparison with a computer, really. I guess you also touched the topic of "free will" here, which if I underestood correctly, I agree, there is no free will. Deriving from your own explanation, I would say that what some people call "free will" is actually just consciousness, which is indeed what we could call an "independent agent or process". Not an independent entity, though.
I am a carpenter by trade with a dualistic worldview who believes vehemently that truth is universally accessible and comes only at the end of a personal excursion wrought with acts of courage that are focussed and determine.
Fortunately, this currency of truth, which is bathe in intellectual humility and self-criticism, always seeks to give reasons, provide evidence and make arguments, lends itself easily to public consumption.
This type of engagement that is typically absent from our current public discourse, features front and centre in your presentations thus far, Dr Kuhn and as a consequence, it has inspired me to publish my two cents, hopefully to bring us “Closer To Truth”.
"..bathe in intellectual humility..?"
You should take a cold shower and rinse that empty "pretentious dirt."
I've watched many of these... oddly I feel farther from the truth just because I'm more aware of what we don't know.
Good sign. Doubt beckons exploration. Meditate in silence, the realizations will come.
Those who are cocksure are stuck, unable to explore other horizons and possibilities, unable to evolve.
That’s still closer to the truth my friend, welcome on the journey, hold on because the closer we get to truth, the crazier it will seem!
That’s a good thing and a huge step towards enlightenment
If truth was simple then excitement would wane, truth is a process of ever evolving understanding it's organic grownth. As you grow in knowledge you grow in wisdom. We have to be humble in seeking truth and be aware of forces within us who will try to arrogate themselves to perception of truth of some form or other. Just remember, All cognition is a kin to recognition.
That's great! Joy is not in finding answers. It is in the journey.
My favorite show on the internet, deeply intellectual, bravo!
I’m addicted to this series!
thanks for letting us know !
One of the best parts of this channel is how scientific and credible it is. No bullshit popular science, this is the real deal!
He really doesn’t want to get closer to the truth. They talk in circles. No one getting anywhere. All this channel is about is confusing people and making money.
Mr. Kuhn is the perfect host for this show, not just because it’s his show , but he listens intently, and has the intellect to challenge these ego soaked “ academic” types.
Don't you think it unfair to describe the academicians he interviews as " ego soaked". He manages to conceal his own convictions and beliefs during the discussions in order to 'bring out' the different points of view of others. The uncomfortable realization that existence is a mystery drives us to look for and find an explanation ? It is as if Dr Kuhn is playing the role of our own minds in their search for search for the meaning of life and ultimate reality,
I remember when about 10 ,sitting in the back garden, I suddenly realised I was trapped inside this body and I think I've been a bit of a coward ever since
Been there!
This is probably the most refreshing an honest comment I've read in a long time
@@czypauly07 thank you for that
i feel that too
Thats a natural feeling, you should meditate for sure. You might just find the entire universe is actually in your mind. So your not trapped you are all of the universe
CCT is one of the most prolific channels around. What a pleasure to wake up in the morning, with a cup of coffee, to pick on some old philosophical question. Here are some other considerations in the discussion.
1. Question the notion of "substance". This is one of the language traps (nouns and "things").
2. I've been listening to some talks and interviews of Karl Friston. I think there is something to his description. It begins with some thermodynamic of "self" and "other". An oil drop illustrates this thermodynamic boundary. On the more animate side, there's the lipid bilayer of the cell wall. At its simplest, it includes "self" and "other" (environment), perception, motor control, inner representation mirroring the environment, the whole complex, acting together in a process. It is an "embodied" view.
You can draw the line of for "consciousness" anywhere. Some talk in terms of "number of feedback loops" (e.g., Michio Kaku starts with a thermometer, then moves upwards).
But a more intuitive dividing line might be the start of biological life. "Perception" is intimately related to consciousness. The bacterial cell has to sense its environment, then navigate it for "food" and survival. There is the outer reality and then some kind of internal modeling of it. Human beings have the latter in spades. They have a rich inner representation, a rich internal life. Human beings even have "meta-cognition", "model of a model of a model ...", "awareness of 'awareness'", awareness of "self" and its processes.
Kurzgesagt has a nice explainer video on this.
ua-cam.com/video/H6u0VBqNBQ8/v-deo.html&
I love the way he ends his videos by saying.. Closer to Truth.
I hope that one day he’ll end a video with, “The honey badger.”
The journey to understanding begins and ends at the same place.
_ How about non-dualism (advaita - literally meaning NOT TWO)?
_ Non-dualism points to consciousness as the only reality.
_ Consciousness (often equated with Awareness), is the basis and foundation of everything appearing as the world of dualism.
_ To the 'limited'/(fixed by conditioning) mind, the world of dualism 'appears' as reality, whereas it is actually a modulation of the 'infinite' mind which in essence is consciousness/awareness.
_ Rupert Spira masterfully discusses consciousness in his book "The Nature of Consciousness"
@@BrotherChad _ Thank you. Sometimes it happens that appropriate words come forth. Letting it happen is a delightful experience.
_ Thank you for your input on this subject.
Rupert is brilliant and explains the reality of our experience perfectly.
"Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise."(zen aphorism)
It does appear that the nature of REALITY IN TOTALITY is beyond the strict categorization of any "ism". To know the mystery is to simply participate in it... without attempting to explain it. Cause you just can't! That's the beauty of it.
Peter Forrest hit the nail right on the head in my opinion. Once you see how confused and indefinite our notions of “Physical” and “Mental” are, Monism seems so obvious that it’s difficult to understand how you didn’t realize it before. It’s like a breath of fresh air
I still don't understand what Monism is o.0
@@Micscience Monism is opposed to dualism. Monism says there is only one fundamental aspect to reality but dualism there's something other, hence two different aspects that comprises reality. Idealists and physicalists, though diametrically opposed, are both monists. To the physicalist, there is only the natural, material world and consciousness is nothing more than an emergent property of brain. The problem with that theory is that it still doesn't quantitatively describe what that emergent property is in the material sense. The idealist, being also a monist, believes there is only consciousness, and what we call the material world doesn't really exist or at least doesn't exist without consciousness. There's problems with that too or at least with how that theory isn't often compatible with our everyday experience. Then there's the dualist who thinks there's a real physical world, but there's something extra added, the immaterial soul which accounts for consciousness. Hope that helps.
@@geralddecaire6164 I always looked at dualism as there are two opposing realities countering each other. The positive and negative and a neutral I guess.
@@Micscience ye that's another view with the same name that has nothing to do with the vid lol
@@philo2903 Uh yes it does, we are talking about world views.
this channel is an absolute gold mine
AS Michael Egnor said in his video: Michael Egnor: the evidence against materialism: " the object that neuroscience studies the mind and the brain is best understood by dualism and i believe that neuroscientist need to become more acquainted with dualism and need to understand the limitations of materialism which are profound and which are holding the science back. The natural world can be much better understood if you assume it has purpose, you assume it has design.
This bloke is amazing..what a channel 🙏
Bede: "It´s easy to see when someone is conscious?" Is it really? There is no consensus which lifeforms are conscious? We cannot tell if a person in a vegetative state has conscious experience?
This channel should be on TV
That asian dude looks like he's about to say "Bro, Aliens."
Dualism is the only vehicle which can somewhat explain conciousness
No left without right no right without left
No material without immaterial
Abstraction defined as contradiction (when opposites come together) and mono polarity
Are you claiming that the distinction between left & right coordinates is a product of abstraction, like, if we didn’t have abstracts then there wouldn’t be left & right coordinates? The very fact that the presentation of a sensible object is conditioned under such coordinates proves that they’re not; as the presentation of a sensible object is independent of abstracts, their coordinate properties, i.e., one part of the sensible object being to the left or right of another part of the sensible object, would therefore be too.
I still can’t understand consciousness. But I find Yijin’s philosophy too rigid. Like his tidy life and mind, every explanation requires an answer that can be tied up neatly in a bow. So that’s how he pursue his ‘truth’.
But Life gets messy and often is. I steer towards Dualism.
I wish I was more academic so I could talk like these people but, when I try to understand their observations, it seems to me they're using fancy words and phrases to say they don't really have a clue. In some ways, this comforts me because I don't like the idea of missing out on something as crucial as what reality really is because I don't have a genius IQ.
Hey Romeo... I feel the same way. I'm pretty much a simple-minded person plus I have "chemo-brain" from cancer treatment side-effects.
Hey RIC, my guess is that you already possess all the intelligence needed. These academics, like all specialists, are simply more used to thinking along these lines and using these specialized words.
@@MichaelEhling Thanks for the compliment. Sometimes, I think these clever chaps like to use esoteric phraseology for self aggrandisement. If the message gets lost in that detail, then communication stops and ego is taking over... imho!
Most of these interviews have no substance, they just say they don't know or give unintuitive or nonsensical explanations. Richard Swinburne gave an excellent argument from epistemology that consciousness is primary and cannot be doubted to exist, whereas matter is a theory; but then he went on to his argument how splitting a brain does not account for the self, thus the self must exist? Seems pretty circular, since materialists say there is no such thing as self apart from the brain, and so yes there would be two selves. I think you only need one argument, regardless of how complex a computing system like a brain is, it cannot create something new, thus consciousness cannot be emergent but fundamental. That one pretty much closes the case for me, materialism is dead.
You explained it,,a lot of fancy words and degrees to say you don’t know,,it’s funny,,they’re hitting the walls of quantum physics,,some scientists are getting philosophical and turning to eastern religion for help,,
23:08 - So, I'm having a bit of trouble following this last guy. Is he basically saying that the pattern of electrical activity we observe in the brain is just what consciousness "looks like" as a physical perception? That seems to be dodging the core issue, but it's still an interesting contention.
Bravo Richard Swinburne, excellently stated, personhood is indeed more then just your brain.
Eric Day indeed Richard Swinburne impressed me as not only knowledgeable and educated but also very wise.
Swinburne was only able to make the point that linguistically speaking, when we refer to 'me' or 'you', we are referring to more than simply the physical brain. His arguments did nothing to argue for the point that this psychology that we consider to be 'me' or 'you' could not be entirely explained in terms of physical causes and phenomena. Of course when we talk about 'me' or 'you' we don't just mean the brain - we mean the psychology and the personality that is linked to this body that we associate with it.
@Jon I don't agree with Swinburne's argument because I reject the dichotomy of mental and physical - since I believe that to have a 'mental' duplicate of myself, I am also drawing on physical and physiological identities. Swinburne's argument relies on the ability to separate mental and physical, which cannot be shown simply by the fact that we refer to them in different ways, or have separate concepts for these alleged classes. I wasn't suggesting that Swinburne was actively trying to use a linguistic trick, but pointing to the fact that, from a non-dualist standpoint, that is ultimately the only conclusion we can validly draw from the argument - because Swinburne's argument attempts to use our concepts to come to conclusions about reality, which ultimately depends on whether or not our linguistic and conceptual understanding of reality is accurate, which is not necessarily the case.
I'm not going to suggest that you 'don't understand the argument', but simply that we have different starting points when analysing it, in terms of beliefs and concepts. Ultimately, I believe that arguments come to a stalemate on this matter, because from my point of view, as with most ontological arguments, we cannot draw certain conclusions about the metaphysical simply from what we ourselves deem to be logically possible. If you don't share that view then you will be able to accept many arguments that I reject on that basis.
@Jon but that is exactly the point - from my point of view, a physicalist one, I don't find the argument convincing because I understand that the arguments he is making is not really a danger to my belief, because it only works if you presuppose the truth of a dualist world. In this way, it can act as a means of confirmation for people who already believe in these views, i.e that have already accepted the _dualist_ dogma. It's not necessary for you to immediately jump to ad hominem arguments - while I am talking about the argument Swinburne makes and the assumptions required for you to accept it, you jump straight to me being a dogmatic physicalist who can't appreciate the possibility of other points of view. Your response is hypocritical, considering my previous reply, which was highlighting the exact point that you're trying to make towards me, but in a less aggressive way. I'm not attempting to criticise you for being a dualist who can't see the error of their ways, all I'm saying is that this argument only works by presupposing the dualist veiw, ie by begging the question, and so is not a compelling argument if the point is to do anything other than convincing people who already believe the final conclusion.
The same way a toaster is more than the sum of its parts.
One must contend with a special idea in this context (but not only in this context, and that is important also). It is that monism is not as attractive an idea as it at first seems, but rather it is also not merely a "substance per se" that is what is at issue, either. There may be one "fundamental substance" say, and yet it matters what state it is in, as it cannot meaningfully generate some phenomenon without being in a particular state. That gives a special valence to the configuration of substance that exceeds the considerations of the substances per se (in themselves). That form has its own content, and merely that content extrapolates itself through formal articulations that add no dimensions of phenomena in their own right. This is also not incompatible with substance dualism, which raises the interest.
To people who say "I've never opened up the brain and saw a thought" I would respond with "I've never opened up a computer GPU and found an image."
A computer is a very complicated machine composed of simple parts with the amazing ability to turn information into images, sound and more.
Your brain is also a very complicated machine composed of simple parts with the amazing ability to turn information into images, sound and more.
Yes, it's a fine analogy.
@H D you're pretty much saying the same thing, except you're asserting that atoms are conscious and billions of atoms together form a more complex conscious. Why then are rocks not conscious?
@@rubiks6 As far as we know they are the same. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
The thought of person being machines (and everything else) is quite dangerous, and will not lead to any good. Take a look at this chap. A real Scientist. ua-cam.com/video/HybPD0VsFP0/v-deo.html
@@rubiks6 that's because your brain is running very complex software built up over time specifically to process incoming data from your senses. Reductive materialism works just fine.
Richard Swinburne. I may not agree with what he says, but I like the way he says it.
He's a brilliant sophist, haha. Just kidding I admire the cordiality everyone has but I really, really, disagree with him.
Below quote from St Francis cleared all my confusion
Yoga says:
Your true SELF is God. You just have to drop your chronic thinking 😃
Consciousness is God. Every living being is a reflection of God in an imperfect mirror
Read "be as you are" by David Goodman
new ager where not god lol
@@Ravenstudios-s5o John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”
Dualism is absolutely a very real possibility. Look around you, there is an equal and opposite to everything. Physical-Spiritual, Female-Male, Life-Death, Day-Night, Hot-Cold, Up-Down, positive-negative...everything you can think of. However, I think it is more than simply that because there is always the transition between the two extremes. Regardless, there is always one or the other as the ultimate goal or end point. I really feel there is our physical reality and experience, while equally there is a spiritual or afterlife that is equally as real (whatever your interpretation of what "real" means). There is also the transition that occurs between the two BUT we ultimately end up in one state or the other. Since we are energetic beings and you don't create energy, it always exists and just manifests in different ways. Our conscious energetic beings transition from one state to the other ALL the time.
My dear Sir/Madame, you are forgetting that between those two polar states are multiple continuous states! Everything seems to be "Flowing" from one state to another per unit time.
Magnificent show! Bravo and thank you to all concerned.
It baffles me how ancient India delved into such issues even 8000 years ago. Samkhya and Advait are both so profound.
I'm a materialist when I'm sober.
Beyond that, things can get a little blurry.
Hol mehr Rum
Bring mir Wein.
Ein Mann wie ich
Darf nie nüchtern sein.
Your elegance is so elegantly elegant.
It would be very interesting to see thoughts on dualism/non-dualism from some of your guests after a large DMT experience.. 🤔😁
My thoughts exactly!
Groovy trip, no proof.
After DMT I no longer believe in dualism
Right!!!
Now there's an idea.
self consciousness is the biggest smoke and mirror trick since the beginning of time.
Consciousness precedes life. When we die, we won’t actually die. We will just continue but in a different form. The brain is more of an antenna than a device that creates consciousness.
anyone can say anything without evidence
Utter rubbish! Provide evidence!
The brain isn't an antenna, that's just wishful thinking as you wish for your existence not to end. The brain looks nothing like a "device " that broadcasts "consciousness". It has many parts completing seprate functions, all of which is done continuously with the rest of the body. So saying it's an antenna is as ridiculous as saying the eye is an "antenna" for seeing.
@@2CSST2 Well, eye can actually be an antenna because the comment which u are seeing is processed in brain occipital lobe and eye is the medium of that.
Only your own experience can ever show you these truths. There is little that can be shown to convince anyone. Yet if you are truly open you can find ample evidence online and elsewhere from physicists, doctors, spiritual teachings, ancient wisdom, lay people, children, channeled material, books, recordings, and many many others all of which converge to the same truth. I too used to think this to be nonsense but I kept an open mind and questioned everything. Do your best to stay open and you WILL discover what many are now discovering about our (humans) true nature.
If we accept the idea of logical constraints in the fundamental operations of reality, then consciousness is the only thing that needs to exist. In fact, consciousness itself defines the constraints.
Robert, please have a discussion with Sadhguru! I would love to hear you two have this conversation.
God, I love Jaron too much! What a treasure . I love the show and thankful for your show RLK!
Wow! Amazing how many ways you can see things!
I keep it simple. I am conscious, and everything is experience, the profound well of insight, clarity, wisdom and understanding. I draw from that well through meditation. 🙏
Honestly, to me, that is simple, just not in the way you intended. It's simplistic. Try this: my brain draws data through my senses, which is stored in my brain. My brain stores and uses this data to send signals to every single part of my body and makes each part act according to the data that it has previously received. Genes are the same only in like a much bigger scale.
Maybe you won't have to spend so much time meditating if you think of it like this. It makes me happy to think that I understand how my body and brain works and I want everybody to feel the same way. And as Lanier kind of said on the video we should just focus on what we can actually work with.
I think that physical and natural science will eventually answer what constitutes consciousness, where it comes from, & what it can be used for.
Me too! Or at least get like really close to the point where we can determine a border separating what we clearly can perceive, understand and study and what we can not. I think there will always be such a limit, like right now our limit is the quantum world (planck is the smallest magnitude we can work with, if I'm not wrong).
Consider the thought experiment were we exactly duplicate a man ( as in Trek TNG episode Second Chances) At the moment of duplication we have two bodies with identical atoms and identical electrical signals in their brains. But we have two completely separate and unique consciousnesses. How can this be explained using a materialistic interpretation?
That's one of my favorite thought experiments. You end up with two men and briefly they're identical in every way and they're both conscious and immediately after they're duplicated, their conscious experiences are exactly the same. They're both in exactly the same mood and thinking the same thing. Why is that hard for a materialist to explain? The brain makes the mind. If you duplicate the brain, then two brains will generate separate but identical minds.
@@mytwocents7481 NOT
@@mytwocents7481 that is to ignore the true idea of consciousness which is that there is a ‘me’ inside the body.
@@clareshaughnessy2745 I'm not ignoring it. I'm assuming that the 'me' is generated by the activity of the brain.
@@mytwocents7481 hmm, but isn’t that the whole question we’re asking?
It's a very nice channel shedding light on many fundamental questions,I love it.
Consciousness is simply the result when Spirit interacts, or manifests as, Matter. Matter is Spirit at it's lower state, and vice versa. Ancient wisdom/knowledge, this is.
So, stones and pebbles, chairs and tables are spirit? I don't think ancient philosophy says this.
@@Arunava_Gupta You may be confusing "Spirit" with "self consciousness".
@@cango5679 Well, consciousness is consciousness, whether it pertains to the self or to some universal cosmic entity, is it not? The essential characteristics are the same.
@@Arunava_Gupta The essentials are the same, of course. But there is a big difference between a plant that is conscious of it's environment - it responds to the sun, the soil, the rain etc, - and being conscious that it is conscious. The manas, the thinking aspect is not there. Not until the human state of evolution you get that self consciousness. (and it keep evolving beyond our state, of course, into higher ways/states. ) But the principles are one and the same. That's at least what I have come to understand, in my ,very much limited, state.
@@cango5679 Thanks for replying. But, of course, there are stages and grades of evolution with varying degrees of consciousness, but all of this has reference to conscious personalities in embodied form. That's what ancient wisdom says. These are all purusas, spiritual personalities, with the essential characteristic of consciousness. But, sticks and stones, chairs and tables, jars and pots, all these belong to an altogether different ontological category with diametrically opposite essential characteristics (non-sentient, mutable, evolutive, etc.). These belong to the category of prakriti, not purusa; and this is what I was referring to.
Believing in Monism makes me feel good!
I love smart people that rock dreads ;) 🙏🏻
Sadly, nobody understands consciousness, but I must admit it is very interesting.
Animals with senses, such as vision, must be conscious of their environment.
Consciousness has obvious evolutionary benefits.
I enjoyed the show, engaging as always..I suspect MOST of the viewers of this channel accept Evolution through natural selection as the process that led from simpler life to us.. THEN why do people have a hard time accepting that consciousness EVOLVED complexity as well.. We see the same curve in animal species today! Metaphysical alternatives are impossible to falsify.. A naturalistic evolution in the complexity and gradualistic emergence of consciousness seems self- evident..Peace.
Saying consciousness evolved doesn't tell us what consciousness is.
@@jordancox8294 Consciousness is the functioning of the reticular formation in the brain stem. Remove this structure and you are comatose! All biology, not woo woo!
@@jordancox8294 A CAREFUL reading of my comment gives the most likely description of what consciousness is.. An emergent property of the manner in which our brain processes, stores, and retrieves information.. A very SIMPLE naturalistic explanation with the highest probability of being correct.. Thanks for your comment friend..
@@GeoCoppens Right friend.. Consciousness is indeed a function of solely biological processes..
@@GeoCoppens I would further suggest that a COMPULSION to understand the physical world is deeply rooted in our DNA.. When a logical (Or scientific) explanation is unavailable, ANY mental construct will suffice to assuage this irresistible compulsion.. ONE mans humble opinion..
We know about the world through observation and experience. When we say we "know" about ourselves, the way we know is different from the way we know the physical world, it's not that our selves are different from the physical world, it's that the way we come to know ourselves is different. We know ourselves through our own private experiencing of our thoughts, memories and feelings. The way we know about other people is by observing them and understanding their reasons and motivation for what they do. Looking for reasons and assuming that other's actions are motivated by their private thoughts and feelings is mostly a different kind of knowing than our knowledge about the physical world. Thoughts and feelings are not experienced as observables in the external world, they are experienced as emerging into our conscious awareness from inside of us. When we try to understand others we can't see their thoughts and feelings, so we have to extrapolate from observations of their behaviour and from our own memory of ourselves or of others. This requires empathy, the ability to imagine ourselves in another's place. This is a different way of knowing than knowing about the geology of the earth or the nature of the universe.
What I'm getting at is that you don't need to draw the conclusion of dualism from the fact that we know our selves in a completely different way than we know the external world.
Consciousness can only be explained after a lifetime of staring into your belly button
Personal Conclusions from various sources "We Are All One Consciousness" for the following reasons:
1. In this world everything must have a cause, so that something exists because of something else, as well as ourselves.
2. It will be very saturating / boring if we have only one physical form in this world.
3. It will be very saturating / boring if all human beings have the exact same physical form behavior.
4. Try to imagine emptying all the physical things around us only the remnants of humanity, then eliminating all human beings leaving only their memories, then removing all their memories leaving only their consciousness, then connecting that consciousness, feel who we are ??.
5. Body, mind, feelings, emotions and everything in this world is always changing, so what never changes ??, that is our true self, which is true consciousness. If everything changes2 / moves who observes, there must be something fixed to be able to observe.
6. All human beings communicate with each other is the beginning of the beginning / the future of human beings unite, only electronic devices today can unite all human beings, one day the device is implanted in the human mind and eventually man will open all access to his mind.
7. Our body is a group / accumulation of memory accumulated brought from the beginning of the birth of the first human in the world through continuous DNA binding.
8. Twins are born at the same time, what if all human beings are born at the same time ??. What happens if the birth of all human beings is not influenced by the dimensions of space and time ??
9. The twins are identical to A and B, if the whole memory of A is copied to B, what is the difference ??
10. The law of attraction (law of attraction) that our minds will attract whatever we think, because we are all like one part of the body.
11. Like some of the video recordings of ourselves there is a video as a vocalist, a video as a violinist, as a pianist, as a drummer, etc. The video2 is made into one in one video then it will produce a more interesting orchestra, something new and more productive. our world.
12. Man's greatest enemy is himself, at this time man is fighting against himself. By believing that we are all one, then the ego will fade because there is no difference between us.
13. That is why the teachings of religion command us to be grateful and beneficial to many,
If you are hurting others you are actually hurting yourself, just as if you are doing good to others you are actually doing good to yourself.
14. Could it be that we are all dreaming and our dreams meet each other at the same frequency in parallel. Have you ever, when sleeping dreamed of moving roles as someone else, it is because we are all one.
15. We are not immortal as human beings so that we have time for us to scroll through all of life.
16. "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience" ~ Stephen Covey, Have you ever felt that our age is too short, could our consciousness be immortal ?.
17. We are one, only the role is different, the memory block between life is what makes people feel different / separate. Just by brainwashing / erasing his memory then someone will be a different person but his consciousness actually remains the same. One consciousness experiences various perspectives of reality.
18. The lucky thing for us is ... awareness is always towards / seeking / having intentions / desires towards good / positive / happiness despite experiencing various mistakes.
19. When we die the body and memory are destroyed, how can we remember ever being dead.
20. Why do we have to die? ", When we are told to die, later this eternal question will be asked again and we will always be there." The world is a sustainable life "~ Bruce Lipton
21. In the beginning we were one, but split through a big explosion or bigbang to become different and separate as it is now, but we are provided with a sense of love for us to be able to be reunited later.
22. There is only us and the mirror of ourselves in this world, yet there is another world out there.
23. We will always smile happily seeing each other as ourselves "How beautiful I am" seeing a different self.
24. If all consciousness is told now that they are all one if the experience gained is enough, the consciousness designed from the beginning is so different that there is so much intrigue, consciousness is created differently so that when it comes together it has an incredible consciousness experience.
25. We are indeed alone in this universe, but there are still many other universes with their own laws of nature.
26. Have you ever felt to come to a place that has never been visited but feel familiar with that place, as if we have lived in that place sometime.
27. The world is like a script of a story that is being written by the author, sometimes changed at the beginning, sometimes changed in the middle, sometimes changed at the end it all depends on us as writers, and every story has wisdom that can be taken as a lesson.
28. Hair grows on its own, heart beats on its own, blood flows on its own, ideas emerge on its own, etc., are we involved ??.
29. Imagine today there was an event that caused only you to live in this world, then who are all the people yesterday ??.
30. "If Quantum Mechanism cannot surprise you, then you do not yet understand Quantum Physics. Everything we have considered real all this time, turns out to be unreal." ~ Niels Bohr.
31. In the scale of quantum physics we are all connected to each other, even in double gap experiments proving that particles change when observed or in other words awareness is able to change reality, this has been repeatedly proven by Nobel laureate in Physics.
32. Everything we experience by our senses will eventually only be an electrical impulse in the brain, is it all real ??. We are beings who realize that we are conscious.
33. We are closer than the veins of his neck.
He breathes some of His spirit on you.
Knowing oneself means knowing one's God.
Indeed, we will return to HIM. You are far I am far, you are near I am near.
I am everywhere.
Before the existence of this world there was no material other than Him.
The True Spirit is only One, the Creator.
I agree with your prejudice.
34. Whether the Creator is only tasked with creating, is it possible that the creator does not want to try the results of his creation through another perspective.
35. There is no reincarnation, it is possible that our consciousness is synchronizing, our consciousness is divided by the speed of light so that consciousness can move and divide quickly through energy, and that is why we need sleep, that is why we often do not realize something, that is why the size of the earth is reached by the speed of light so that consciousness is divided quickly and evenly, we are like some chess pawns played by a player, that is why if we move at the speed of light, then we can penetrate the dimensions of space and time, when we die we wake up and regain consciousness as long as there are human beings living in this world.
36. Have we ever had a problem and suddenly someone came to provide a solution to the problem we are experiencing, as if someone was sent by the universe to help us in solving the problem, which is actually our own awareness that sends that person to us.
37. A thousand years ago did human beings see, hear and be trapped in their hearts about current technological advances ??. If we all tend to sin (damage) then it will be the world of hell, if we all tend to do good then it will be the world of heaven.
38. Knowledge learns objects, God who created our consciousness, does not allow God to be objects of knowledge.
39. It is not possible for human creation which is only in the form of words / symbols to represent true truth.uyty
40. Is there a meaning of being without consciousness ?? then we are adventurers of this existence.
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41. The life of the world is just a game and a joke, the one who wins the game of the world is the one who finds his true self.
42. When the existence of the world ends we will know everything.
43. My consciousness undergoes a very extraordinary life experience, feeling life experience with different forms and different places even though in fact my consciousness is always the same, wow .. I was surprised !! how wide I am.
44. Consciousness in fact does not know the concept of time, consciousness can experience / undergo into another physical form because the dimension of time can be penetrated by consciousness, as when we imagine we can act as anyone without time bound, because in this universe time can in fact materialize free, time can move straight, curved, rotate, etc. Our time travel is when our consciousness moves to a new physical experience.
45. We are an awareness, a concept that is able to answer various things.
46. Remember when you were going to leave, you were worried about losing me ??, calm down .. I was everywhere and we would always be able to meet again, believe me.
47. Without searching what is the difference between us in this world and us in a dream while sleeping just passing by without meaning
48. In conclusion, whatever role we play, it is all our own design, so just enjoy.
49. I never said that self is God, I thought that self is one consciousness, God should be higher and perfect than consciousness.
50. God created us to be Happy, so do not disappoint God. Understand it and be Shining.
Source of inspiration :
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@Jon ok i agree, everyone is not me, why do I care, I will only help people if I need them, it's not my business if they suffer prolonged suffering, anyway they're not me, so I just let people suffer, there is no benefit for me if I take care of them.
Consciousness is flow of energy
I think consciousness is like water. It behaves differently in various states. This could give the illusion of dualism when it is actually monism. Imagine a dream. You feel like you are a distinct consciousness within your dream. But what is the dream world made of? You consider the dream world to be distinct from your consciousness in the dream. But they are both consciousness.
Well said. Dreams within dreams.
They are not "consciousness".
They are what one is conscious of.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL Deep enough meditation and you will find that there is no distinction between the seer and the seen.
@@Ndo01 Deep enough meditation and one will not be conscious.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL There are degrees of subtlety to consciousness and other factors to consider like memory which contribute to the recollection of being in the deeper meditative states, so any accounts of not being conscious is only a phenomenological interpretation after the fact. We could also call such states 'objectless consciousness'.
Appears begs the question. Without consciousness nothing appears.
It seemed like the physicalists, at least some of them, kept trying to have aspects of dualism as an escape hatch while saying they weren’t dualists. Struggled with their positions.
Go where the evidence leads. The overlap isn't a bad thing if it means their wells are drilling to the same oil.
That's more a problem with labels than anything. Listen to what they are saying, not get hung up on specific words. It's not a competition.
I don't know a single PHYSICALIST who believes in dualism.. Escape hatch or otherwise..
@@billnorris1264 That's because their ignorant of their own dualism.
@@danzigvssartre No personal offense intended friend.. You can "LIKE" your own comments, but it doesn't add any validity to your Bronze Age ideas.. Your beliefs in PURELY assumptive knowledge, puts you in an ever-dwindling minority of supernaturalists.. Even mainstream philosophy is largely abandoning the idea, but feel free to believe in ghosts and goblins..
Interview Leo gura, he's got some profound opinions
We are not conscious when we are in deep sleep. How can one expect to be conscious after death?
Not so fast Bucko...Those ole Vedic monks have done empirical studies where they 'proved' they were conscious during deep sleep. My remembrance of the study was they were asked questions while in deep sleep (confirmed by brainwave states) and were asked to blink yes or no...And they blinked correctly. Not proof entirely but evidence that they remained conscious even in the deep sleep state.
But it goes further because the lore of that tradition is that it's only the mastery of the deep sleep state that can get one out of this 'Bardo hell'..
See the Tibetan Book of The Dead...
@@andrewmarkmusic lol Bucko i like that one lol
@@666summerz Christian Gnostics are the irreverent hippies of Christendom and we don't take this place seriously...We are consistently murdered and our metaphysical narrative is consistently wiped off the face of the earth, though, so that much I take seriously...
BTW: I think it's the Book Of Peter wherein it is said the Aeon Kristo was in hysterics when the Sanhedrin council tried to kill him...An impossibility! The Book of Judas suggests it was Yaldabaoth that tried to put him to death...It's also said in other writings that Yaldabaoth, at some time in cosmological history, was shown a vision of the Aeon Kristos (and rejected it) so this cosmological war was well in play 2000-years ago as it is today...
Of course, this is all speculative cosmology.
Look it up.
Actually, we are, we just have no recollection of those conscious states; just like a child in the womb, at a certain point, is sentient or conscious but will have no recollection of it in life. Blacking out is another example, as a person who’s blacked out, say, from deep inebriation, has no recollection of it later but was nonetheless conscious during that whole time. So that a lack of a recollection of conscious states isn’t equivalent with a lack of conscious states.
The universe is BOTH physical and non-physical at the same time. Truth is a paradox but with understanding this seeming conflict of opposing views can be appreciated as two poles of Truth operating on different sides of the same spectrum.
Consciousness is flow of energy
"Mysteries solved by mysticism seem too neat." :)
Like a great philosopher once said "we are here just because"
Richard Swinburne was pretty creepy about the brains, but the explanation was unique and conclusive.
Agree, he made the point though 😊
Nothing can explain consciousness, this is a non question.
only substance dualism makes sense. We should conceive a scientific soul that is interacting with physical matter of our body and brain. I have tried this in my book- consciousness explained scientifically by substance dualism: demonstrates the existence of the soul and God. This clearly tells that we can conceive a scientific soul.
Depends on what you mean by "make sense". The test of a scientific theory is if can make exact predictions that can be shown to be wrong. What would disprove your theory?
@@myothersoul1953 my theory predicts that we are alone in the universe. We can never find other life anywhere else. Also there cannot be a second chance of life on earth as well. If we ever find life anywhere else then my theory will prove wrong.
The Universe of your perceptions is a virtual-reality illusion, as max Planck understood. (See his 1944 Florence, Italy lecture on the nature of matter.) ALL IS THOUGHT IN A GREAT MIND. If you want to know more, including the answer to the coronavirus, give me a 'click".....
@@sanjeevjain5519 So far your theory fits the data.
@@myothersoul1953 It should likely be true for all times if my theory built around soul is correct. It also provides a likely cause of the beginning of cosmos.
Consciousness is eternal and permanent . Material is real but temporary
Bartender, 'I'll have a double dualism, please!"...
On the rocks
@@helensmith7596 Cheers!
I'd recomend a Dalmore 15!
I wish the interviewer knew Advaita Vedanta. It would make the conversation even more interesting.
No, but idealism can.
Well yes and yes, although idealism seems tobhave the evidence more on its side.
He seems be the best debater on consciousness.
Water can be a solid, liquid and a gas. Consciousness can be physical solid, spiritual and ethereal.
Guided Meditation they have no relation whatsoever. That’s like saying , “fire is a gas, therefore consciousness is not spiritual or ethereal.”
Doesn’t make sense really
What's the difference between spiritual and ethereal?
Dualism is always secretly unity in disguise of separation. When all is one and connected, separation is an illusion. Nothing is truly separate as all is of the one monad mind. Duality is a fallacy. We do not live in a physical reality; physical reality is an illusion that lives within you. Your thoughts, words, and actions co-create your own reality. Sending love to the great ALL disguised as many however, through singularity consciousness we are all truly ONE. There is no we or us just one consciousness within all, on different levels of conscious awareness. ONE
When, when, when is Kuhn going to interview Bernardo Kastrup about Idealism? Kuhn's failure to do so to date is ...well, a real failure. At some point, this failure will be more evidence of just how pathetically close-minded (and tribal) even the most allegedly open-minded seekers are.
I am such a fan of Jaron Lanier
One thing is sure: Empirical science cannot explain everything.....
Empirical science is the closest thing to truth and knowledge we can ever have, other of course than the knowledge that you exist. It doesn't explain everything, but it paints a very extensive picture of the world and the way it works, and many ideas aren't compatible with what it's painting... like dualism
Max science “may be” the best tool leading us to truth and knowledge, yes, but that does not detract from my original statement that “empirical science cannot explain everything. If you like and request I can give you an example which will leave you dumbfounded or perhaps impressed.
zempath that is BS- I just explained your comment.....obviously you do not comprehend my comment but come up with stupid nonsensical lines....
zempath lol....FOFF stupid
Consciousness. My take on it has come from many years of being aware that it separate from the physical the material. So some will understand what I’m saying and others will dismiss it as rubbish. The reason I’m convinced it more then just the body is because I’ve been having experiences for as long as I can remember that could be called out of body. Even I would call these experiences nothing but a construction of the mind if there hadn’t been a percentage of them that could be put into context. I’ve come to believe that everything that has life is connected to a central conscious that exists apart from our physical reality. I believe we are projected into this reality. I don’t come to this conclusion because I’ve studied Eastern Philosophy or any religion I come to it from experience and context. Out of all my experiences on occasion I have one that can be linked to our reality through its context. Many times I have random experiences that are linked to horrific events but on a small scale. Like someone being murdered car accident and other similar events. Sometimes I have them related to world changing events. Three weeks before the earthquake that caused the Fukushima disaster I found myself viewing it from the perspective of someone that was there. Walking through the aftermath in a group of others seeing the damage I could smell the air feel the dampness I could see the wreckage and I could see the people around me were Asian. At that time I could only conclude that there would be a tsunami somewhere In Asia. And yes I tell people. The ones that know have no doubt but I’m usually treated with doubt. Over the years this has happened a number of times. 9-11 airplane disasters fires and so on. At the time of these great events random number generators start to not be so random. What I’m proposing is all things alive weather that’s a tree a cat a blade of grass or a human being are connected back to a central conscious. I’m not comparing conscious to intelligence though they could be intertwined.
@Ric Brunner -- fyi, it's 'whether'. Congratulations, from reading your post I gather that you possess at least a good semblance of sanity. A life of experiences like that would drive me batshit crazy.
thomas smith Yes I’ve had an interesting and great life and hopefully I will have many more years. I’ve experienced much. I have nothing to do with the random out of body experiences they just happen. I tend to know things before they happen, like phone calls or if I’m going to get a ticket. I’ve learned over the years how my underlying tone is giving me a clue. I images many people have this but don’t pay attention to it. I don’t clam to be special and I don’t brag. It just is what it is. Thank you.
I've watched so much of these shows and all I know for certain is one plus one equals two. Everything else is a theory of more or less merit.
If you still believe that, perhaps you might enjoy reading up on the philosophy of mathematics, then :P
And evermore shall be so.
@@zynphull Bertrand Russell said it's so!..oh,don't ruin my last bastion of truth in reality.
25:40 - We all know that our minds can create extremely vivid dreams. The main difference between "real life" and dreams is that the dreams are generally more fuzzy and ephemeral - dream worlds don't seem to have the "rigor" of physical law. But consider the possibility that the "real world" would be a dream that's being shared by at least billions of separate consciousness minds. It's entirely possible that results in the rigorous, repeatable behavior. It's one thing for you to "mess around" in a dream that you're having alone - that doesn't necessarily mean you can do the same in a multi-billion-mind dream. I have no evidence to cite for this, but I see no reason to consider that idea implausible.
There is one honest answer: W.E.D.O.N.T.K.N.O.W...
We do know, idealism is true.
@@dazedmaestro1223 Woo-hoo...Another Luciferian!
Although there is a fine line between Woo-hoo and Woo-woo..
@@andrewmarkmusic, what woo-hoo, wooooooooohaheahfhfghsm, or zlkfsjkfzdhfs khkhuksfhuudkshuk?
S.O.S
An extended structuralism takes care of all areas, layers, theories, perspectives, in context (and within their limits), often interlinked and translatable into each other. Many academics who are not proponents of a SINGLE model adopt some sort of model like that, which can also be deemed a standard model of academic rationality and openmindedness (often just tacit or implicit).
There is consciousness and then there is Consciousness.
consciousness is the movement of the I, the me, the self, the observer, the experiencer, the interpreter, the controller, the chooser, the censor, the meditator, which is an illusion invented from the past conditioning of the brain.
consciousness has many levels.
Consciousness has no levels.
consciousness is a chemical mechanical process of the brain.
Consciousness IS NOT a chemical mechanical process of the brain.
consciousness is a bundle of memory.
Consciousness IS NOT a bundle of memory.
consciousness originates in the brain.
Consciousness DOES NOT originate in the brain.
consciousness invents reality.
Consciousness is the movement of Truth.
Total Freedom from consciousness is the beginning of Consciousness.
Consciousness is the movement of Inner Silent Space.
When there is Consciousness, there is Perceiving without the lens of memories. It is Perceiving without the perceiver.
This Consciousness is what we call Heart, Soul, Spirit.
Then and only then is there Love, Peace, Joy, Goodness, Kindness, Compassion (Passion for All), Beauty, Creativity, Feeling, ExperiencING, Lucidity, Truth, and Wisdom.
Then and only then is there Communication, Communion, Connection, Relationship with everyone and everything, for the very first time, in each and every moment of daily life.
Inner Total Freedom is actually being Totally Free of fear, anxiety, suffering, confusion, alienation, addictions, envy, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, hatred, violence, bias, and prejudice in daily life, once and for all, now forever.
Totally Free of beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, theories, opinions, perspectives, biases, prejudices, nationality, and identifications, which limit, color, shape & distort Perception, and therefore, prevent Lucidity.
Totally Free of the I, the me, the self, the observer, the chooser, the experiencer, the interpreter, and the so-called True or Higher Self, which is the invention of the past conditioning of the brain, which acts like an inner tyrant who tells you what to think, how to feel, and what to do.
They actually treat everyone, without exception, with the same intensity and quality of care and affection that they would give their dearest closest friend, lover, or child, without any sense of division, separation or distance in daily life, once and for all, now forever.
Inner Total Freedom is actually Living Love, Peace, Joy, Truth, Creativity, Compassion (Passion for All). Communicating, Communing, Connecting with everyone and everything, in each and every moment of daily life.
Inner Total Freedom does not take time.
It is not of time.
It is not the result of time or the things of time.
It is not the result of any method, ritual, or diet.
It is not the result of any chemical.
It is not the result of any process.
There is no path to it.
It happens effortlessly and choicelessly...faster than the speed of light.
Moreover, it is once and for all, now and forever.
How do I arrive at Truth?
Every now and again one of these philosophers refers to it as "conciness" when their brain-tongue synapse gets tired, it always makes me smile
I like the honesty of Jaron Lanier... To claim any certainty that Physicalism or Idealism or Dualism is right, with, IMO, spurious arguments, is really only guessing. We must walk the tightrope between superstition and unjustified reductionism. Personally, I neither want to exist as me forever, nor be totally extinguished. Both seem to suffer our Western bias of Individualism.. I therefore hope for a more holistic and relational ontology where my identity which is physical, ceases to exist, but consciousness (which is what I think I really am at root) dissolves into a universal consciousness that is constantly being manifested. It makes me a part of everything sentient. However, maybe all that matters is what ontology helps you to live a better life.
Sounds like he is getting closer to truth!
Whereas 'dualism" is a principle of local time/space, Singularity, is the "seat" of all Consciousness. This, is what the pineal gland is for... to receive from Singularity, whereby Consciousness is diffused into duality - left/right brain hemispheres etc., for the experiential process.
*_“… Every one who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”_* Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955), founder of modern physics (Theory of Relativity inter alia) and 1921 Nobel prize winner
I think they each need to define what they considered as consciousnesses. Each seems to be slightly different
I just can’t escape the impression that non-dualists all seek to either deny or downgrade consciousness, when, to most people, consciousness is the most immediate and certain thing that there is. In this sense, non-dualist approaches are all hopelessly lacking.
Especially people claiming the mind to be an illusion which would require a subject to be fooled and this subject is the same as the mind just claimed to be the illusion. Circular?
Exactly. Especially as it is the single most important thing we will ever have
The first line of the kybalion is All is Mind. Maybe it's on to something? I'm getting more and more certain that man's "fall" is thinking dualistic.
This is a very good channel.
No dualism cannot explain consciousness. Dualism is an aspect of consciousness, the feeling of being other instead of being one with the whole. There is good and bad rather than good only or bad only. Actually all is triune, as Chinese philosophy has it, nothing happens without three. The Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which is symbolizes Consciousness and Participation in Consciousness, as an Entity and the Vibration which makes the objective, manifest aspect of Consciousness possible. What is so hard to understand about that? it is the way Religion sees it and it is absolutely correct.
Buddhism makes the very clear point that you can't measure the mind with the mind.
This insight comes from people who have meditated deeply.
the real india Buddhism or the first buddha did not believe in a self or soul
@@Ravenstudios-s5o it wasn't a case of not believing in the self but more seeing and experiencing the sense of a self as illusory. Belief plays no part in the cannon of Buddhism, experience and exploration are the language used.
You are on the right track, Slar....fast. My book offers a revelation of these truths, as delivered by The Mind that is All. And if you want the answer to the coronavirus, give me a "click".....
Unbelievably amazing
18:45 'Does it make demands on anything outside the natural world?' But the natural world is only available to us through five senses. How can we be sure ALL that the natural world actually is? What if we had another one or two senses? What if consciousness IS another one of our senses? The five senses would tell us about the 'natural' world; consiousness being the sense that allows us to experience our Selves.
3:21 Sir, You may want to understand Sri Madhwacharya in the true dual (Dvaita) thesis is. I am happy to speak to you about this concept.
What we mean physical ?. We can think (lemon) we right away experience water and different sensual changes in the body biology without seeing the lemon . 🙏🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
That consciousness is an "illusion," begs the question. For illusion presupposes consciousness, which takes us back then to Descartes' "cogito, ergo sum."
Existence is consciousness. There is no existence without consciousness.
The Bible starts out with the statement, "First there was the word." My life did not start out that way. When I was very young, maybe one or two years young, I was lying in my crib, having a spell of nightmares. the nightmares were always the same: I was in a reddish-brown dimly-lit cave lined all around with crumbling worm-like entities. I was scared and repulsed by being in there. When that experience got scary and repulsive enough, I cried for help. My vocabulary wasn't large. My mother came out of her bedroom, the room adjacent to the one I was in. I sensed she was asking me to tell her what was the matter. I do not know what sounds I actually made, and I clearly remember trying to say something like, "full of worms." My consciousness was conceptual before it was verbal. Many years later, I realized (with a start) I was probably having nightmares stemming from the trauma I felt during my travels through the birth canal. During the mornings of these same days, I had learned to wait impatiently for the sunlight to travel across the pattern of Bo-Peep figures on pink wallpaper until it touched a certain one, then I would cry to be taken out of my crib. Consciousness was, from the beginning, the medium through which I experienced and interacted with the world. My brain wasn't well-developed and I was unquestionably inexperienced, yet I had experiences of which I was fully conscious and I created memories that lasted to this day, now, many decades later. Then as now, I sense my brain is tuned to a medium which serves as a carrier to me of my reality.
Consciousness is flow of energy
12:10 ORGANIZE YOUR IGNORANCE!
The perch description is one I can comprehend and while not the same reminds me of how I feel on a wall... ON one side the "woowoo" that I do not deny but also seek not to fall into.... but then to the other side seems dry, denying, less experience.... On the wall there is experience, there is questioning, there is possibility.
Personally I do feel that purely physical (as it is understood now) seems difficult.
I believe in something of a consciousness... but I could say that it is a monistic or pan (dual/pan).
I like that idea of organizing ignorance.
I agree that the universe does surprise us and that we are far from wrapping it all up... the macro/micro comes to mind
8:42 - YES. Thank you. It is crazy. Yes, I'm looking at you, Daniel Dennett.
What richard says makes sense
We know now about the illusion of conscious decision making. That our brain makes decisions much faster than we can rationalize it and communicates to our frontal cortex, which then rationalizes the decision.
What if consciousness is just the same? Just the frontal cortex rationalizing the sensory data collected by the rest of your body, together with your memory. Just a story generated by your brain to facilitate the processing of all this data.
Then it looks so much like the "front end" of software. The UI elements making it easier for the complex funcionality to interact with external stimulii.
Not saying I'm right, but I have this feeling sometimes, that its not the physical or spiritual worlds that are illusions, but consciousness itself. But who knows.
You're basically explaining physicalism in simpler terms, I think, and I agree. It's very hard not to make the comparison with a computer, really. I guess you also touched the topic of "free will" here, which if I underestood correctly, I agree, there is no free will. Deriving from your own explanation, I would say that what some people call "free will" is actually just consciousness, which is indeed what we could call an "independent agent or process". Not an independent entity, though.