@rk_nyx4214 well yea, they are the simple class.... it's by design. But you could say the same thing about all 3 on some level especially when you consider what the usual suspects are in crucible: "look at me, I have a movement exotic and *insert meta hand cannon + shotgun, sniper, fusion here*, I'm so good at crucible and my playstyle takes soooooooo much more skill than everything else that will ever exist in destiny". The game is not that complicated nor is it anywhere near balanced
@@pieguy7057geomag with chaos reach takes 8 full seconds instead of 1. You can do way more damage with nova bomb or needlestorm plus 7 seconds of heavy weapon.
If they do nerf lucky pants, I hope it's specifically to crack down on exotic swapping. It's a really fun playstyle that would be a shame if it got nerfed to hell like Young Ahamkara's Spine.
Imo lucky pants is what makes the class be able to compete with titan punch and warlock well. so if they nerf it expect hunters to be kicked from nightfall lobbies and raids.
we absolutely need a testing room where we can apply buffs and debuffs, modifiers and things like -5/-10/-15/-20 power levels etc to see how builds will perform in different situations
O 1000%! Praying they turn that area at the back of the crafting table into full blown World of Warcraft test dummies with relative boss/major/minor DR
@@thomash8513 In a raid setting where you have access to ghorn (losing lots of your own total damage for a net gain from your team) absolutely HOWEVER: in anything with less than 6 players having a bait and switch edge transit does more damage than a rocket. and in both situations you can get rid of your whole reserves, so the total damage is all that matters.
@@Jvggr if u wanna play optimal ur better off going solar with gls cause Icarus with rof do the same thing grapple does the difference is on strand u can get all the rockets out faster than u can on solar strand is literally not worth it with gls cause u can literally shoot 6 rockets in the span of 15 secs then go back to ur normal rotation u are right tho that gls are better for solos lowmans and dungeons they are literally neck and neck tho its just strand swapping is better with rockets
Rule of thumb on kinetic surges for Izi and the like: The difference between two surges and three surges on your heavy is equal to 5% of its non-surge output, whereas the first kinetic surge is 10% more on Izi. So if at least a third of your damage (BEFORE SURGES) from the rotation comes from your kinetic weapon, then 1/2 is optimal. The reason that's the breakpoint is that it's the point where Izi is doing half as much of your damage as your heavy, so a 10% buff to one-third of the damage is equal to a 5% buff to two-thirds of the damage. The breakpoint will be a little different if you're testing with three surges already and considering a 2/1 split, because that drop from 122% on your heavy to 117% on your heavy is smaller. Less certain on that one offhand. You may also want to consider things like activity- and boss-specific factors (surge/overcharge on the activity, Kalli and Shuro's increased crit multiplier), as well as your own crit rate consistency unless you have someone in the fireteam who really likes Div.
@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 the thing about Edge transit and cataphract is, that Edge transit can get Cascade point + envious assasin in the same (3rd) collum, and bait n' switch in the 4th collum, something that cataphract doesn't have (Have in mind that cataphract came out before the ammo reserve buffs on all heavy GLs)
Explosive payload is actually only a 4% buff on snipers because the higher the weapons crit multiplier, the lower of a damage boost EP will give, since it only boosts the base body damage by 15% before taking into account the crit multiplier. So for Handcannons it’s a 10% buff, scouts get an 8% buff and snipers are the worst at 4%
@@Five20three Yes although I assume the sniper you’re referring to is Albruna-D which is an arc 72 rpm sniper which doesn’t pair the best with Edge Transit because it doesn’t surge match
Hi, Mr Llama, I'm suing you for emotional distress. My hunter-main friend has had his whole life shattered now that Stasis is apparently worth more than just shatterskating. I will see you in bird court! (also, thanks for the amazing refreshers!)
Awesome info. thanks for breaking it down, and showing rotations in practice and action. I’ve never understood load-out optimization, and only realized it was a thing when another player made me look like it was my first day in a vanguard strike. I just soloed Whisper for the first time yesterday and was wondering how the heck other players out class me sooo much, and now it makes sense. I’ve definitely got some farming to do for weapons, but that is the easy part once you know how to build a load out.
This is exactly the kind of video I’ve been looking for in general. Build videos and loadout suggestions are helpful but when it comes to actually carrying out a solid damage rotation, that’s the details I’m lacking. Please do a similar video showing maxing DPS on Pantheon bosses. Would leave to compare what I do for bosses like Golgy, Caretaker and Planets to really max out dps
Very interesting and informative video! Was NOT expecting that final build with hunter😁😁 Gonna have to give it a shot with gerthy numbers like the ones in the vid😅😅 Thanks again for such an awesome and informative video, Llama😁👍
For edge transit rotations all ur surges should be on void, ur doing about 3x more dmg with edge per mag than u are with Izzy so it helps more to buffs edge’s dmg as much as possible as opposed to buffing edge & Izzy’s dmg
It depends on if you are getting a large envious assassin mag. The 2-1 split makes sense in rotations where swap to your special frequently or have to manually reload.
for the stasis hunter, its also good to add in whisper of durance whisper of durance extends the super and grenade duration so that you keep that small damage buff when the target is frozen for your shotgun and edge transit (i think its like 5% until the shatter happens) another small optimization is to run star eater scales and swap to lucky pants during your super cast, but its not very necessary as your super damage isnt really the reason to be on revenant in the first place overall a pretty good breakdown of what makes these dps strategies really really strong, and im sure a lot of people will appreciate it
The super apparently only does 70k total DMG, the time loss of swapping isn't worth it. It's why this actually isn't the best rotation on hunter, that would be celestial->swap to ahamkara grasps mag dump 43+11 shots of envious deconstruct sticky nades edge transit. I think this is possible in the timeframe, I have not personally tested this roll, neither have I seen anyone use it, but It's significantly easier and frees up room for an exotic primary and major clear special.
@@yourbrojohno if envious, sticky and deconstruct is actually the meta heavy all I can say is... lame. llama I'd like to see a follow up testing to whoever put out that first video. As for this revenant rotation, this is much more exciting (throw back to font of might). I don't mind playing stasis hunter in day1/under leveled content at all and since this is barely even using the super for damage you wouldn't even really need to be on it prior to DPS. Think about using tether for your team or popping a celestial, then the well drops with apothesis veil as you switch to revenant and have full abilities for the rotation... Lots of possibilities here.
regarding the persuader: my understanding of explosive payload is that it splits the base damage (bodyshot damage) and enhances the 50% explosive damage by 30% increased damage, meaning overall 15% increased bodyshot damage, which then is diminished by high precision damage multipliers, as is the case with snipers. that equates to a rough buff of the 15% divided by the precision damage multiplier, which for rapid fire snipes is about 3.5x i think. that would mean the total damage increase of explosive payload would only be about 4% thus my question if it would not be more beneficial to use the fugue with vorpal or even firing line instead, which can achieve the same handling stat as the persuader. or even using the borealis (or the frozen orbit) which also has 75 handling (FO can get that much, but is more finnicky with surplus or firmly planted)
As a warlock, after I asked about Persuader on the last video, I started looking at the other options. Father's Sins just doesn't have a good roll. 1000 Yard Stare and Frozen Orbit have pretty PvP centered perk pools (on top of being less effective DPS options). But we do also have the Fugue, which has auto-loading holster and vorpal weapon, and you can roll it with extended mag to get 7 in the mag. I know it's lower rpm, but is the bigger damage buff (5%, but still) enough to make up for the difference vs Persuader, and is being able to put a boss spec on Fugue vs no mod on Persuader enough to push it over the edge? Great video overall, I'm sending this to my day 1 squad. I know everything will probably change, as it always does going into a new year, but this is a great foundation to work on for the next month. Thanks for doing stuff like this, it's very helpful!
@@LlamaD2 that makes good sense. It slows down a lot after you dump all the heavy and are cleaning up on a long damage phase too, so that’s something to look at as far as lost total damage. Hopefully we just get a better void 140 sniper so we don’t have to worry about it. Thanks for the thoughts!
I think Chicken also used 4th horseman in the hunter rotation for one of his vids. I tried it in week 1 pantheon and it cooked. Also worked pretty well in vog (tho most anything works well in vog). It's a lot of inputs and that makes my brain happy
Forgive me if I'm wrong but didnt you have the artifact mod active that increases damage against stasis/strand debuffed enemies while radiant? And you were using a well while using the builds for hunter warlock? 12:34
You have helped my PVE end game so much since i have returned to Destiny 2! Your videos are making me the lore accurate. Keep it up! Thank you for your hard work! I 'm sure you will blow up in final shape!
Silly question, when running the solar warlock build... how do you actually clear stuff before damage phases? Do you swap your special weapon for something with primary ammo or? Because I mean presumably you need all the ammo you can get
On Banner of War: I'm expecting if it gets nerfed at all, they're going to hit One-Two Punch. That perk has broken things several times previously, and I don't think Banner of War is particularly out of line without it. It's also got a ton of really weird and complicated interactions under the hood: it's a 100% damage buff, that increases to 150% against bosses and vehicles with a specific subset of abilities (including Grapple and Combination Blow and unpowered melees), that doesn't work with at all with a different subset of abilities (mainly projectiles like Throwing Hammer--that used to be a thing too!--but also apparently Thunderclap for some reason), that also has really specific nerfed-stacking interactions with Stasis' freeze, Liar's Handshake, and a couple other things I don't remember offhand. I really wouldn't be shocked if that's nerfed at least in part as an excuse to simplify it. I also don't think I want Banner of War DPS to be killed off entirely. It's incredibly unique as one of the few very good damage strategies that basically doesn't rely at all on heavy ammo. That, like Lucky Pants, makes it an excellent choice in activities where ammo might be a struggle (remember Contest Caretaker? basically no valid Aeon targets and a ton of health to chew through). I don't think it's fun to potentially lose a contest mode raid because of ammo RNG, so I think having options like those in the game is good to some extent because it lets you play around that. Basically: sure, BoW DPS is too much right now, but I get the sense a lot of people are asking for nerfs that would go way too far, especially given the state of the other Titan subclasses right now (Sunbreaker is also very good, albeit reliant on Pyrogales to keep up with the boss damage meta; and then the other three are barely in consideration unless propped up hard by the artifact). Considering Prismatic Hunter is going to have Combination Blow, Grapple, and Synthoceps all at once, that's also got a lot of ridiculous potential provided the survivability is accounted for (from a teammate with Well of Radiance for instance). Basically the options I see are: 1. You nerf 12P; 2. you nerf Grapple Tangle duration to not be infinitely refreshable (so you do grapple DPS for like 10-15s, pop regular melees, pop super, then maybe a second Navigator point if you need it--or have a teammate provide it); 3. you nerf grapple damage directly (which I think would make it too weak when 12P is not a factor); 4. you nerf BoW survivability again (which I don't think is needed, it's in a decent place).
That’s what I’m saying. Berserker relies entirely on one-two-punch to hit those massive numbers. Nerf that perk and suddenly those melts become a lot less viable. I’d hate for what is the only viable end game melee build for Titan to be gutted because of one interaction
One two punch was already nerfed. The perk is now a one one punch. And before it wasnt every pellet in the shot. Now it is. They would have to nerf the mutiplier. And since they already did two changes to not nerf the multiplier. In bungo fashion i predict they will just release a different perk thats easier to proc. Or something shiny and fun that will stray most away from the playstyle
btw Llama u can decode that persuader sniper at the season of witch vendor, it can roll with perks like perfect float, rapid hit (1st column) & precision instrument, triple tap and high ground (2nd column)
4:12 - I used it a long time ago, but does the Witherhoard+taken spec mod in the rocket (and fusion) still work? The damage bonus is bigger than with the Boss Spec mod (or it was a long time ago, although it might have been a bug)
A good spot I'd say to practice the navi+grapple+one-two punch is the Moon, Altars of Sorrow. Lots of enemies with decent health, and not a ton of damage themselves. While being a rather wide open area with very distinct paths the enemies will go through. Though, for the better purpose for actually learning against a boss of some type. The first boss of Prophecy is a nice test subject, though can be a bit annoying at times. Rather easy to make it to the boss arena as a strand titan, and the mechanics for a DPS phase aren't anything too difficult.
The apostate SR from the moon rotating boss also gets explosive payload in 4th slot while being able to get higher overall stats and an extra perk, or alternatively the twilight oath SR from dreaming city can get vorpal, so those might be options though they would probably require some farming unless u hoarded a roll already
I appreciate you posting this video. I'm trying to get some friends into raiding, and while they can get mechanics down easily, they have trouble with dps sometimes. Maybe this will give them the edge they need. In regards to OG persuader, I unfortunately don't own one, however, I do have a High-Impact Void Sniper called Trophy Hunter with Vorpal weapon. Would this be serviceable in it's place, or would being a high impact cause a loss in dps?
Would Frozen Orbit with Vorpal weapon be the best option in the energy slot? It’s a high impact so it’d do more damage in the 1 shot than the other void snipers
Which Pantheon bosses do you think these rotations are/will be effective on? Some of these feel like they’d be hard or impossible to execute well on bosses with frequent health gates (Caretaker, Zo’aurc, Golgoroth to a lesser extent)
So for the first warlock build, how do you perform during non DPS encounters? Do you switch right before and do a quick ammo run or how does that work?
For the hunter rotation could you add a quick swap from star eater scales so you have your super doing extra damage whilst doing the lucky pants rotation?
Love the4 creative Stasis Hunter rotations. I love weapon swapping because it is more of a challenge than holding down the Thundertrigger (no hate to the blueberries, i just think its lame). And the fact u are using Stasis to freeze which gives u more dmg and to reload ALL wepons is just Crazy. Loved it.
1:19 i've been using apostate for the same reason, explosive payload for the extra damage, but it also gets lead from gold to have that tiny bit more ammo
You popped up on twitter and it a strange coincidence because i was working on redoing some loadouts. I like the strand one the most cuz snipers xD. But my dumb brain probably should've realize that this would be a loadout to use before rallying up.
What I want to know though. How does the hunter combo compare to radiant nighthawk supremacy and apex predator or even izi swapping with that same edge?
what could be used instead of wardens law? Malfeasance maybe for the 5 shot explosion and since it takes 5-6 shots for cascade to proc or do you have something else in mind?
I remember when I first tried grapple 1-2 punching, I thought it was so annoying to shoot the shotgun and melee in the same movement. Felt pretty dumb when I saw my first clip of a Titan properly shooting before the grapple. Such a powerful combo.
@@thomlionsdale7590 I haven’t considered trying it outside of solo dungeons, it feels too movement-crazy to be a normal addition to a fireteam. Maybe stacking a couple grapple build players together could be fun.
I first learned about that Lucky Stasis setup from a channel called Chicken SI-2 about a year back. GLs were shit back then so it was actually with Bait Apex and Cartesian Coordinate instead. As for the hand cannon, Malf is weaker in a solo scenario but will instantly become much better than Warden the moment you're in a team and someone has Witherhoard on (which is very likelike because that gun is fairly commonly used)
Thank you for not including seasonal mods. It has always been a pet peeve of mine to see "insane DPS!" videos where the strategy is only temporarily viable due to the inclusion of a seasonal mod.
Have you thought of building a stareater scale revanent super and a hotswap to lucky pants? Might get it above Warlock by a good chunk. Also, throwing a duskfeild to prock freeze for WL dmg buff. Love the vids ❤
@@LlamaD2if you end up redoing this video could you add alternative dps methods. Maybe top 3 for each class. I would like to see how the strand reload titan and the pyrogale (reload less :[) titan compare to wormgods. Also solar hunter and grapple reload.
Overall, VERY good video thank you! I love that you covered alternatives too. My only criticism, isn't Cascade + Deconstruct better dps on Edge Transit than Cascade + BnS?
Hey dude i dont know if u read all comments but u can get a non sunset Persuader from the helm,"recovered red war weapons top right at the bench from season of witch" room in the middle/ back of helm
I try my best to read them all! And yes I'm aware there is a new Persuader haha, the point of me using the sunset one is just to show that it doesn't really matter what you use in that slot, just that you should aim for it to be void and a rapid fire.
Specifically for Persuader the new version actually gets rapid hit + Precision Instrument, which imo is just better / more optimal compared to Father's Sins for Cascade combos
Hey llama question brother. Can I use another loadout for each dps loadout that is exactly the same but has recuperation nd better already mods on my legs equipped just for better survivability, and swithc to dps loadouts with surge and autoloading mods immediately at the start of dps phase? Hope my question makes sense
how much better is stasis hunter over golden gun/nighthawk? how does it play out in a team setting where others are dealing damage faster than the slow ticking stasis super? id definitely be curious to see a comparison!
I am wondering what is the best alternative to Warden’s Law/Lucky Pants in general for the last build. I love my Lucky Pants but I never got Warden’s Law since I didn’t love the burst handcanons in general. Now I’m fairly certain we aren’t gonna get it from GMs until post Final Shape. I assume the best alternative would just be Izi, but if I’m wrong I’d love to know
alright, i've been hunting a good wardens for awhile and havent seen anything viable from it yet. that being said, is there another good option for kinetic slot handcannon instead of wardens for that rotation?
I'm fairly new to d2, so I'm not really sure how this works. How do you get to damage phases with the double sniper loadouts? I'm pretty sure you're not clearing ads with that loadout, so what do you do when its time to do damage?
Banner of War is also an excellent ad clear tool, when playing titan I rarely use my weapons for ad clear and just punch everything instead, for Warlocks you have Sunbracers which are insane for ad clear and for hunters you also have knife trick and healing grenade for infinite high damage melees and resto procs. The jist of what I'm saying is that your abilities can carry your ad clear pretty well if you spec into them properly meaning you can keep most of your ammo for when it comes to DPS, I also have a video here that explains how special ammo swapping works and could be beneficial for you: ua-cam.com/video/k8093HeUYSM/v-deo.html
Ad clear with a ad clear load out, then swap to your dps load out. Usually (for my raid/dungeon teams atleast) there is someone dedicated to spawning ammo for the team. Keep your subclass and all the aspects and stuff the same so you don't loose energy. If you're playing solo, you're probably good enough to clear with abilities alone lol
Have you tried dragon shadow with fourth horsemen + edge transit with cascade bait or cascade deconstruct? It's ridiculous and I'm almost certain it outdamaged the lucky pants build and is slightly faster
question would burried bloodline be better than nessas for the stasis hunter rotation because u can proc weaken if theres an add to kill and since the rotation doesnt use an exotic?
i'd say probably depends on how accessible weaken will be in TFS/the specific fireteam setup. if it's something free like in this season, maybe not so much
I'm loving that Necrotic is still on top for Warlocks! I've seen people do decent damage with Apotheosis Veil, but I'm guessing the ability spam isn't worth the lost weapon damage time. If I get an exotic class item with Necrotic's perk, I'm never taking it off XD
Question for titan: what's the % difference between wormgod and synthos? Wormgod is kinda irritating to keep up for damage in comparison to just being sureounded
If you wanna get even more DPS off with the apex warlock setup, you CAN proc heat rises to get ANOTHER dodge. It just depends on how long the DPS phase lasts ofc
Izi + cascade point with no other sniper can actually work with rain of fire, since it will reload all weapons but still keep 4x honed edge. Shoot honed edge -> shoot regular izi shot -> reload izi -> cascade point -> icarus -> repeat would be the rotation, but I havent tested the numbers on it yet
Maybe this is the most blueberry question I can ask but, boss dps on a raid comes right after the mechanics, which requires a lot of ad clear and enemy density. How do you swap from potentially a primary/special /heavy loadout to a special/special / heavy dps loadout without loosing special ammo? Cause I don't think I can go around a raid mechanic with two snipers and a gl and survive for dps lol
Banner of War is also an excellent ad clear tool, when playing titan I rarely use my weapons for ad clear and just punch everything instead, for Warlocks you have Sunbracers which are insane for ad clear and for hunters you also have knife trick and healing grenade for infinite high damage melees and resto procs. The jist of what I'm saying is that your abilities can carry your ad clear pretty well if you spec into them properly.
another point surely wilderflight is just better than the sniper? best in slot gl and doesn’t it just do more dmg than the sniper considering you only shoot sniper once
warlock and hunter: uses entire keyboard
titans: falcon... PUNCH!
While I do enjoy Titan punchy it is very satisfying to actually nail a damage rotation
Titans require 1 brain cell
@rk_nyx4214 well yea, they are the simple class.... it's by design. But you could say the same thing about all 3 on some level especially when you consider what the usual suspects are in crucible: "look at me, I have a movement exotic and *insert meta hand cannon + shotgun, sniper, fusion here*, I'm so good at crucible and my playstyle takes soooooooo much more skill than everything else that will ever exist in destiny". The game is not that complicated nor is it anywhere near balanced
@@ShadowNemesis575 the issue you're running into is acknowledging that d2 pvp even exists when that shit is made for the less than human.
dude u know how hard it is to do that combo that looks so easy?
This video has false information: the most optimal warlock super to use is nova bomb and I am right and you’re wrong and nova bomb is the best
erm. actually thats geomag with chaos reach
This guy knows what’s up
@@pieguy7057geomag with chaos reach takes 8 full seconds instead of 1. You can do way more damage with nova bomb or needlestorm plus 7 seconds of heavy weapon.
🤔
@@lemonkeydude3043 r/woosh it was a joke lmfao
If they do nerf lucky pants, I hope it's specifically to crack down on exotic swapping. It's a really fun playstyle that would be a shame if it got nerfed to hell like Young Ahamkara's Spine.
Agreed!
Imo lucky pants is what makes the class be able to compete with titan punch and warlock well. so if they nerf it expect hunters to be kicked from nightfall lobbies and raids.
@@Maksimszzbroodweaver already claps hunters so you need to pray lucky pants aren’t hit
Man don't remind me about ahamkara that one still stings hard
Bungie cant „balance“ or „nerf“. They can just destroy…. Like starfire or ahamkara
we absolutely need a testing room where we can apply buffs and debuffs, modifiers and things like -5/-10/-15/-20 power levels etc to see how builds will perform in different situations
O 1000%! Praying they turn that area at the back of the crafting table into full blown World of Warcraft test dummies with relative boss/major/minor DR
Literally the trophy hall
@@RhulksgloriouslegsSeason of Opulence was nuts
The way Edge Transit just chunks the health everytime
💀
It's beautiful
Ngl if ur doing strand ur probably better off doing gl izi rocket over edge for strand just cause u can get more rockets out with strand
@@thomash8513 In a raid setting where you have access to ghorn (losing lots of your own total damage for a net gain from your team)
absolutely
HOWEVER: in anything with less than 6 players having a bait and switch edge transit does more damage than a rocket. and in both situations you can get rid of your whole reserves, so the total damage is all that matters.
@@Jvggr if u wanna play optimal ur better off going solar with gls cause Icarus with rof do the same thing grapple does the difference is on strand u can get all the rockets out faster than u can on solar strand is literally not worth it with gls cause u can literally shoot 6 rockets in the span of 15 secs then go back to ur normal rotation u are right tho that gls are better for solos lowmans and dungeons they are literally neck and neck tho its just strand swapping is better with rockets
@@thomash8513not if you got the god roll shiny edge (pre upcoming nerf*) with cascade as well as EA/B&S
Rule of thumb on kinetic surges for Izi and the like: The difference between two surges and three surges on your heavy is equal to 5% of its non-surge output, whereas the first kinetic surge is 10% more on Izi. So if at least a third of your damage (BEFORE SURGES) from the rotation comes from your kinetic weapon, then 1/2 is optimal. The reason that's the breakpoint is that it's the point where Izi is doing half as much of your damage as your heavy, so a 10% buff to one-third of the damage is equal to a 5% buff to two-thirds of the damage.
The breakpoint will be a little different if you're testing with three surges already and considering a 2/1 split, because that drop from 122% on your heavy to 117% on your heavy is smaller. Less certain on that one offhand.
You may also want to consider things like activity- and boss-specific factors (surge/overcharge on the activity, Kalli and Shuro's increased crit multiplier), as well as your own crit rate consistency unless you have someone in the fireteam who really likes Div.
Thanks for the info!
Amazing comment thanks
Can I get a TLDR
TLDR unless ur not using multiple rockets in one swap always use 3
Edge transit changed so much in the meta is insane
It’s you!
Sort of, right? We've had Cataphract it's just that Edge Transit made that meta much more accessible.
@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 no one wants to touch trials
@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 the thing about Edge transit and cataphract is, that Edge transit can get Cascade point + envious assasin in the same (3rd) collum, and bait n' switch in the 4th collum, something that cataphract doesn't have
(Have in mind that cataphract came out before the ammo reserve buffs on all heavy GLs)
@@Kirokill1 it's me!
Explosive payload is actually only a 4% buff on snipers because the higher the weapons crit multiplier, the lower of a damage boost EP will give, since it only boosts the base body damage by 15% before taking into account the crit multiplier. So for Handcannons it’s a 10% buff, scouts get an 8% buff and snipers are the worst at 4%
I didn't know this thank you!
@@LlamaD2 Frozen orbit with Auto loading and Vorpal could be a shout as you are mostly doing 1 shot so RPM won't matter as much
Will a sniper with explosive and vorpal work?
@@Five20three Yes although I assume the sniper you’re referring to is Albruna-D which is an arc 72 rpm sniper which doesn’t pair the best with Edge Transit because it doesn’t surge match
Guys the damage difference per shot is at the VERY VERY MOST 2k, it ain’t worth it
Hi, Mr Llama, I'm suing you for emotional distress.
My hunter-main friend has had his whole life shattered now that Stasis is apparently worth more than just shatterskating. I will see you in bird court!
(also, thanks for the amazing refreshers!)
Huge props on this video! Well put together, explained thoroughly without making it too complicated. Definitely earned my sub 👍
Appreciate the love brother
Ive been trying to find a video like this for days. Thank you!
Awesome info. thanks for breaking it down, and showing rotations in practice and action.
I’ve never understood load-out optimization, and only realized it was a thing when another player made me look like it was my first day in a vanguard strike.
I just soloed Whisper for the first time yesterday and was wondering how the heck other players out class me sooo much, and now it makes sense.
I’ve definitely got some farming to do for weapons, but that is the easy part once you know how to build a load out.
This is exactly the kind of video I’ve been looking for in general. Build videos and loadout suggestions are helpful but when it comes to actually carrying out a solid damage rotation, that’s the details I’m lacking. Please do a similar video showing maxing DPS on Pantheon bosses. Would leave to compare what I do for bosses like Golgy, Caretaker and Planets to really max out dps
Very interesting and informative video!
Was NOT expecting that final build with hunter😁😁
Gonna have to give it a shot with gerthy numbers like the ones in the vid😅😅
Thanks again for such an awesome and informative video, Llama😁👍
can get the same numbers on void...plus way more survivability with infinite devour and invis
Awesome vid, and nice credit to chicken, he has some awesome damage rotations
chicken is goated
how convenient, I was looking for something like this earlier today lol
great vid as always bro
Glad I could help!
This was amazing; I've been really curious on how to use strand warlock and titan for max dps. Couldn't have been nore clear and concise. Thank you!
2.6 almost on the dot. 3.2 as well! Way to hit the nail on the head. You really do know Greg very well
Thanks you for this, exactly what I’ve been looking for.
No problem!
This is great information as a newer player (about 3 months) i learned about how to rotate weapons and actually cycle not just edge spam
Great video - the hunter stasis was a blow your socks kind of rotation, had no idea!
That was so nice to watch! Maybe you could do a different video on the easiest yet most optimal damage rotations on all classes.
For edge transit rotations all ur surges should be on void, ur doing about 3x more dmg with edge per mag than u are with Izzy so it helps more to buffs edge’s dmg as much as possible as opposed to buffing edge & Izzy’s dmg
this ^
It depends on if you are getting a large envious assassin mag. The 2-1 split makes sense in rotations where swap to your special frequently or have to manually reload.
This isn't the case with lucky pants, a 1/2 split is best. With Izi 3 void is best though
No, its just a 5% buff instead a 10% of kinect. So maybe it worth 2 - 1
for the stasis hunter, its also good to add in whisper of durance
whisper of durance extends the super and grenade duration so that you keep that small damage buff when the target is frozen for your shotgun and edge transit (i think its like 5% until the shatter happens)
another small optimization is to run star eater scales and swap to lucky pants during your super cast, but its not very necessary as your super damage isnt really the reason to be on revenant in the first place
overall a pretty good breakdown of what makes these dps strategies really really strong, and im sure a lot of people will appreciate it
Ah I knew I was forgetting about something, might go back and try hit a new pb haha, thank you!
The super apparently only does 70k total DMG, the time loss of swapping isn't worth it. It's why this actually isn't the best rotation on hunter, that would be celestial->swap to ahamkara grasps mag dump 43+11 shots of envious deconstruct sticky nades edge transit. I think this is possible in the timeframe, I have not personally tested this roll, neither have I seen anyone use it, but It's significantly easier and frees up room for an exotic primary and major clear special.
@@yourbrojohno if envious, sticky and deconstruct is actually the meta heavy all I can say is... lame. llama I'd like to see a follow up testing to whoever put out that first video.
As for this revenant rotation, this is much more exciting (throw back to font of might). I don't mind playing stasis hunter in day1/under leveled content at all and since this is barely even using the super for damage you wouldn't even really need to be on it prior to DPS.
Think about using tether for your team or popping a celestial, then the well drops with apothesis veil as you switch to revenant and have full abilities for the rotation... Lots of possibilities here.
@@sQuaTsiFieD DO NOT use envious with deconstruct, deconstruct doesnt return ammo if the mag is overflowed
This. Cascade deconstruct is WAY better@@bilbo9730
regarding the persuader: my understanding of explosive payload is that it splits the base damage (bodyshot damage) and enhances the 50% explosive damage by 30% increased damage, meaning overall 15% increased bodyshot damage, which then is diminished by high precision damage multipliers, as is the case with snipers. that equates to a rough buff of the 15% divided by the precision damage multiplier, which for rapid fire snipes is about 3.5x i think. that would mean the total damage increase of explosive payload would only be about 4%
thus my question if it would not be more beneficial to use the fugue with vorpal or even firing line instead, which can achieve the same handling stat as the persuader. or even using the borealis (or the frozen orbit) which also has 75 handling (FO can get that much, but is more finnicky with surplus or firmly planted)
The fact that you predicted the damage numbers is scary! I hope you're good! Haha
As a warlock, after I asked about Persuader on the last video, I started looking at the other options. Father's Sins just doesn't have a good roll. 1000 Yard Stare and Frozen Orbit have pretty PvP centered perk pools (on top of being less effective DPS options). But we do also have the Fugue, which has auto-loading holster and vorpal weapon, and you can roll it with extended mag to get 7 in the mag. I know it's lower rpm, but is the bigger damage buff (5%, but still) enough to make up for the difference vs Persuader, and is being able to put a boss spec on Fugue vs no mod on Persuader enough to push it over the edge? Great video overall, I'm sending this to my day 1 squad. I know everything will probably change, as it always does going into a new year, but this is a great foundation to work on for the next month. Thanks for doing stuff like this, it's very helpful!
Yeah I mean if you're shooting just 1 shot then Fugue will do fine but if you miss and have to hit 2 more it falls off a little
@@LlamaD2 that makes good sense. It slows down a lot after you dump all the heavy and are cleaning up on a long damage phase too, so that’s something to look at as far as lost total damage. Hopefully we just get a better void 140 sniper so we don’t have to worry about it. Thanks for the thoughts!
Thanks to this I now have receipts for the homies that doubt my stasis hunter build. Ty for all your work king! ❤
I think Chicken also used 4th horseman in the hunter rotation for one of his vids. I tried it in week 1 pantheon and it cooked. Also worked pretty well in vog (tho most anything works well in vog). It's a lot of inputs and that makes my brain happy
Forgive me if I'm wrong but didnt you have the artifact mod active that increases damage against stasis/strand debuffed enemies while radiant? And you were using a well while using the builds for hunter warlock? 12:34
Extremely well made video good job
You have helped my PVE end game so much since i have returned to Destiny 2! Your videos are making me the lore accurate. Keep it up! Thank you for your hard work! I 'm sure you will blow up in final shape!
Silly question, when running the solar warlock build... how do you actually clear stuff before damage phases? Do you swap your special weapon for something with primary ammo or? Because I mean presumably you need all the ammo you can get
That was perfect rotation btw super clean and impressive
On Banner of War: I'm expecting if it gets nerfed at all, they're going to hit One-Two Punch. That perk has broken things several times previously, and I don't think Banner of War is particularly out of line without it. It's also got a ton of really weird and complicated interactions under the hood: it's a 100% damage buff, that increases to 150% against bosses and vehicles with a specific subset of abilities (including Grapple and Combination Blow and unpowered melees), that doesn't work with at all with a different subset of abilities (mainly projectiles like Throwing Hammer--that used to be a thing too!--but also apparently Thunderclap for some reason), that also has really specific nerfed-stacking interactions with Stasis' freeze, Liar's Handshake, and a couple other things I don't remember offhand. I really wouldn't be shocked if that's nerfed at least in part as an excuse to simplify it.
I also don't think I want Banner of War DPS to be killed off entirely. It's incredibly unique as one of the few very good damage strategies that basically doesn't rely at all on heavy ammo. That, like Lucky Pants, makes it an excellent choice in activities where ammo might be a struggle (remember Contest Caretaker? basically no valid Aeon targets and a ton of health to chew through). I don't think it's fun to potentially lose a contest mode raid because of ammo RNG, so I think having options like those in the game is good to some extent because it lets you play around that.
Basically: sure, BoW DPS is too much right now, but I get the sense a lot of people are asking for nerfs that would go way too far, especially given the state of the other Titan subclasses right now (Sunbreaker is also very good, albeit reliant on Pyrogales to keep up with the boss damage meta; and then the other three are barely in consideration unless propped up hard by the artifact).
Considering Prismatic Hunter is going to have Combination Blow, Grapple, and Synthoceps all at once, that's also got a lot of ridiculous potential provided the survivability is accounted for (from a teammate with Well of Radiance for instance).
Basically the options I see are: 1. You nerf 12P; 2. you nerf Grapple Tangle duration to not be infinitely refreshable (so you do grapple DPS for like 10-15s, pop regular melees, pop super, then maybe a second Navigator point if you need it--or have a teammate provide it); 3. you nerf grapple damage directly (which I think would make it too weak when 12P is not a factor); 4. you nerf BoW survivability again (which I don't think is needed, it's in a decent place).
That’s what I’m saying.
Berserker relies entirely on one-two-punch to hit those massive numbers. Nerf that perk and suddenly those melts become a lot less viable.
I’d hate for what is the only viable end game melee build for Titan to be gutted because of one interaction
One two punch was already nerfed. The perk is now a one one punch. And before it wasnt every pellet in the shot. Now it is. They would have to nerf the mutiplier. And since they already did two changes to not nerf the multiplier. In bungo fashion i predict they will just release a different perk thats easier to proc. Or something shiny and fun that will stray most away from the playstyle
@@Rinickulous1106 i swear they already nerfed the multiplier. and thats why shatter has a higher melee dmg multiplier now.
@truv_ possibly. They are better off nerfing the grapple point lol. 3 free grapples per.
@@truv_ but then again if you carry a second navigator and just swap navigators the cooldown disappears so
thank you for time stamps and dim loadout links bro.
No problem!
btw Llama u can decode that persuader sniper at the season of witch vendor, it can roll with perks like perfect float, rapid hit (1st column) & precision instrument, triple tap and high ground (2nd column)
4:12 - I used it a long time ago, but does the Witherhoard+taken spec mod in the rocket (and fusion) still work? The damage bonus is bigger than with the Boss Spec mod (or it was a long time ago, although it might have been a bug)
We always knew Bungie loves Titans
Hey Llama great vid as always, Just wondering if substituting cloudstrike in the hunter rotation would be viable as an alternative to father’s sins?
A good spot I'd say to practice the navi+grapple+one-two punch is the Moon, Altars of Sorrow.
Lots of enemies with decent health, and not a ton of damage themselves. While being a rather wide open area with very distinct paths the enemies will go through.
Though, for the better purpose for actually learning against a boss of some type. The first boss of Prophecy is a nice test subject, though can be a bit annoying at times. Rather easy to make it to the boss arena as a strand titan, and the mechanics for a DPS phase aren't anything too difficult.
The apostate SR from the moon rotating boss also gets explosive payload in 4th slot while being able to get higher overall stats and an extra perk, or alternatively the twilight oath SR from dreaming city can get vorpal, so those might be options though they would probably require some farming unless u hoarded a roll already
Definitely will be trying out the hunter and titan dps right now
I appreciate you posting this video. I'm trying to get some friends into raiding, and while they can get mechanics down easily, they have trouble with dps sometimes. Maybe this will give them the edge they need.
In regards to OG persuader, I unfortunately don't own one, however, I do have a High-Impact Void Sniper called Trophy Hunter with Vorpal weapon. Would this be serviceable in it's place, or would being a high impact cause a loss in dps?
Trophy Hunter is a classic, I kept mine too! I'm sure you'll be just fine using it, just don't miss haha
Would Frozen Orbit with Vorpal weapon be the best option in the energy slot? It’s a high impact so it’d do more damage in the 1 shot than the other void snipers
Which Pantheon bosses do you think these rotations are/will be effective on? Some of these feel like they’d be hard or impossible to execute well on bosses with frequent health gates (Caretaker, Zo’aurc, Golgoroth to a lesser extent)
the guy that solo flawlessed Pantheon did it on banner titan
May be a silly question since these build are mosre final shape raid ready but is it possible to use these build cor solo flawless dungeons? Or no
So for the first warlock build, how do you perform during non DPS encounters? Do you switch right before and do a quick ammo run or how does that work?
You can start with a different special weapon like Forbearance and then swap to your DPS snipers with minimal ammo loss
For the hunter rotation could you add a quick swap from star eater scales so you have your super doing extra damage whilst doing the lucky pants rotation?
Love the4 creative Stasis Hunter rotations. I love weapon swapping because it is more of a challenge than holding down the Thundertrigger (no hate to the blueberries, i just think its lame). And the fact u are using Stasis to freeze which gives u more dmg and to reload ALL wepons is just Crazy. Loved it.
1:19 i've been using apostate for the same reason, explosive payload for the extra damage, but it also gets lead from gold to have that tiny bit more ammo
If I don’t have a warden’s law that has vorpal or fourth times the charm, is it still best to use it? Or what exotic HC would be best to replace it?
Really appreciate this thanks
One question, is their a reason you didnt use thread of evolution on strand warlock when showing your build? love the content keep it up!
You popped up on twitter and it a strange coincidence because i was working on redoing some loadouts. I like the strand one the most cuz snipers xD.
But my dumb brain probably should've realize that this would be a loadout to use before rallying up.
This is such a cool video!
Thanks :D
What I want to know though. How does the hunter combo compare to radiant nighthawk supremacy and apex predator or even izi swapping with that same edge?
Great video here, quick question, how did you get your Transcendent Blessing mods? Thanks ^^
Complete the Gateway Between World's Petra bounty and you should receive a new Queen's bounty that rewards a Blessing.
@@LlamaD2 Thanks!
what could be used instead of wardens law? Malfeasance maybe for the 5 shot explosion and since it takes 5-6 shots for cascade to proc or do you have something else in mind?
I remember when I first tried grapple 1-2 punching, I thought it was so annoying to shoot the shotgun and melee in the same movement. Felt pretty dumb when I saw my first clip of a Titan properly shooting before the grapple. Such a powerful combo.
Yeh it’s amazing, but if you have any other party members doing DPS it absolutely sucks for them.
@@thomlionsdale7590 I haven’t considered trying it outside of solo dungeons, it feels too movement-crazy to be a normal addition to a fireteam. Maybe stacking a couple grapple build players together could be fun.
I first learned about that Lucky Stasis setup from a channel called Chicken SI-2 about a year back. GLs were shit back then so it was actually with Bait Apex and Cartesian Coordinate instead. As for the hand cannon, Malf is weaker in a solo scenario but will instantly become much better than Warden the moment you're in a team and someone has Witherhoard on (which is very likelike because that gun is fairly commonly used)
Chicken SI-2 MENTIONED!??!?!?!
@@calliphomallum663 what's wrong with that? I think he deserves to have the credit for this Hunter setup. It's been used by him for a long time.
Same been outdpsing everyone with the apex version for so long. Never been outdps in a successful rotation yet. Chicken goated
@@longps9528 oh no fs its just he gets like no credit for how much testign work he does. im suprised anyone mentioned him
im curios the dmg with and withoit necrotic grip. you think its adding in more than 100k dmg?
Llama do you have any recommendations for a kinetic weapon if you don’t have a Warden’s Law (Adept)? I’m just not exactly a Trials player lol.
Malfeasance. Also, it's a nightfall weapon so much easier to acquire!
@@jordanreavis8163 Nice! I like Malfeasance for Taken stuff sometimes anyways. Thanks, mate!
Thank you for not including seasonal mods. It has always been a pet peeve of mine to see "insane DPS!" videos where the strategy is only temporarily viable due to the inclusion of a seasonal mod.
Have you thought of building a stareater scale revanent super and a hotswap to lucky pants? Might get it above Warlock by a good chunk. Also, throwing a duskfeild to prock freeze for WL dmg buff. Love the vids ❤
Yeah I might go back and re do this, but I don't expect SES to add much to Revenant
@@LlamaD2if you end up redoing this video could you add alternative dps methods. Maybe top 3 for each class. I would like to see how the strand reload titan and the pyrogale (reload less :[) titan compare to wormgods. Also solar hunter and grapple reload.
Overall, VERY good video thank you! I love that you covered alternatives too.
My only criticism, isn't Cascade + Deconstruct better dps on Edge Transit than Cascade + BnS?
I do believe they are quite similar
@@LlamaD2 Yeah I think they are. Also looking a bit further, it is boss dependant
a question for warlock is the deconstruct cascade point sticky nades just as good as envious + bait for transit?
They're very similar, Duqk has a good video on this.
Hey dude i dont know if u read all comments but u can get a non sunset Persuader from the helm,"recovered red war weapons top right at the bench from season of witch" room in the middle/ back of helm
I try my best to read them all! And yes I'm aware there is a new Persuader haha, the point of me using the sunset one is just to show that it doesn't really matter what you use in that slot, just that you should aim for it to be void and a rapid fire.
Specifically for Persuader the new version actually gets rapid hit + Precision Instrument, which imo is just better / more optimal compared to Father's Sins for Cascade combos
What sort of build would you use for swapping off damage on strand warlock, like a ceno build or something?
Hey llama question brother. Can I use another loadout for each dps loadout that is exactly the same but has recuperation nd better already mods on my legs equipped just for better survivability, and swithc to dps loadouts with surge and autoloading mods immediately at the start of dps phase?
Hope my question makes sense
I've never really raided before so what could I use to replace Nessa's oblation for the hunter build ?
Very nice, but thunderlord
dude thanks for the tip on mini frags, i thought spikes were better LOL! ill have to grind for another :(
Why the void shotgun? is it just to take advantage of the void surges? Is it worth using a solar 72 sniper to take advantage of flint striker?
for strand warlock, I can just ignore the sniper for wilderflight right? I don't have father's sis yet ad wasn't around for presauder
how much better is stasis hunter over golden gun/nighthawk? how does it play out in a team setting where others are dealing damage faster than the slow ticking stasis super? id definitely be curious to see a comparison!
I am wondering what is the best alternative to Warden’s Law/Lucky Pants in general for the last build. I love my Lucky Pants but I never got Warden’s Law since I didn’t love the burst handcanons in general. Now I’m fairly certain we aren’t gonna get it from GMs until post Final Shape. I assume the best alternative would just be Izi, but if I’m wrong I’d love to know
alright, i've been hunting a good wardens for awhile and havent seen anything viable from it yet. that being said, is there another good option for kinetic slot handcannon instead of wardens for that rotation?
A seventh seraph revolver with FTTC Vorpal is a good substitute or also Malfeasance
Last Word is also excellent
On the hunter clip you say 2 shots with the shotty to reproc bait, how does this work? I thought it needed damage from all 3 weapons to proc
I meant to say Cascade Point, not Bait & Switch
I'm fairly new to d2, so I'm not really sure how this works. How do you get to damage phases with the double sniper loadouts? I'm pretty sure you're not clearing ads with that loadout, so what do you do when its time to do damage?
Banner of War is also an excellent ad clear tool, when playing titan I rarely use my weapons for ad clear and just punch everything instead, for Warlocks you have Sunbracers which are insane for ad clear and for hunters you also have knife trick and healing grenade for infinite high damage melees and resto procs.
The jist of what I'm saying is that your abilities can carry your ad clear pretty well if you spec into them properly meaning you can keep most of your ammo for when it comes to DPS, I also have a video here that explains how special ammo swapping works and could be beneficial for you: ua-cam.com/video/k8093HeUYSM/v-deo.html
Ad clear with a ad clear load out, then swap to your dps load out. Usually (for my raid/dungeon teams atleast) there is someone dedicated to spawning ammo for the team. Keep your subclass and all the aspects and stuff the same so you don't loose energy.
If you're playing solo, you're probably good enough to clear with abilities alone lol
"you may not like it, but this is what peak dps loadouts look like."
If I'm cenotaph mask wellock and for multiple reasons I don't wanna run RoF in dps phase, which exotic armor and weapon rotation should I choose?
Have you tried dragon shadow with fourth horsemen + edge transit with cascade bait or cascade deconstruct? It's ridiculous and I'm almost certain it outdamaged the lucky pants build and is slightly faster
question would burried bloodline be better than nessas for the stasis hunter rotation because u can proc weaken if theres an add to kill and since the rotation doesnt use an exotic?
i'd say probably depends on how accessible weaken will be in TFS/the specific fireteam setup. if it's something free like in this season, maybe not so much
I'm loving that Necrotic is still on top for Warlocks! I've seen people do decent damage with Apotheosis Veil, but I'm guessing the ability spam isn't worth the lost weapon damage time. If I get an exotic class item with Necrotic's perk, I'm never taking it off XD
What other weapon types can I use for special on the warlock build? It looks nice but I'm worried about the ammo economy of it.
Am I crazy or is BnS not proc'd on the GL the whole time? If so would it make sense to swap to the hand cannon at some point mid rotation?
Question for titan: what's the % difference between wormgod and synthos? Wormgod is kinda irritating to keep up for damage in comparison to just being sureounded
If you wanna get even more DPS off with the apex warlock setup, you CAN proc heat rises to get ANOTHER dodge. It just depends on how long the DPS phase lasts ofc
since i dont have cascade on edge transit would envious work aswell and would i be losing dps
Izi + cascade point with no other sniper can actually work with rain of fire, since it will reload all weapons but still keep 4x honed edge. Shoot honed edge -> shoot regular izi shot -> reload izi -> cascade point -> icarus -> repeat would be the rotation, but I havent tested the numbers on it yet
To note, for wellocks you can also do apotheosis veil with solar grenades and touch of flame for some good damage right off a well pop
Maybe this is the most blueberry question I can ask but, boss dps on a raid comes right after the mechanics, which requires a lot of ad clear and enemy density. How do you swap from potentially a primary/special /heavy loadout to a special/special / heavy dps loadout without loosing special ammo? Cause I don't think I can go around a raid mechanic with two snipers and a gl and survive for dps lol
Banner of War is also an excellent ad clear tool, when playing titan I rarely use my weapons for ad clear and just punch everything instead, for Warlocks you have Sunbracers which are insane for ad clear and for hunters you also have knife trick and healing grenade for infinite high damage melees and resto procs.
The jist of what I'm saying is that your abilities can carry your ad clear pretty well if you spec into them properly.
As I do not have a Warden's law, is it possible to do the Hunter Rotation almost the same with a Crimson for example?
Try Malfeasance instead, it's more damage than Crimson
Do you need spike grenades on edge transit or does anything work?
Is there an auto reload available on Titan aside from strand and stasis fragments?
Sadly not
For burst dps on strandlock, wouldn't apotheosis swap off be better? Correct me if I'm wrong
W video. Could you by chance do a new mass DPS testing of LFRs, Anarchy, Lament, Acrius, rockets, GLs, etc
is mini frags better than spike? as you get more shots in mag that will be bait shots or is spike better
another point surely wilderflight is just better than the sniper? best in slot gl and doesn’t it just do more dmg than the sniper considering you only shoot sniper once
@@al0842 The void sniper is to make cascade point work
@@kaboom3423 cheers for clarifying haven’t used cascade in ages