I would put a turnbuckle on both sides of the cable run to allow you to tighten the steering cables over time. The cable will stretch over time and you need to be able to take that slack out. You could use a tensioner pulley as well. The general idea is to be able to tighten without undoing the cable clamps holding it all together.
Just a reminder - you know this already - but just saying - the steering system is the most crucial of all the systems on the boat. It cannot afford to EVER break or jam, so it needs to be over-engineered to be on the safe side. Pulley diameters need to be considerably larger to reduce repeated bending strain on the cables, and the cable itself should be at least twice the diameter that you're using. Don't forget Murphy's Law ... "If anything can go wrong, it will." Love your channel.
Hi guys that's certainly an improvement but there are a few things missing. You need a breaking system to secure the rudder in the midships position so that it does not thrash around when not in use. How do you propose adding automatic steering? Helming a boat on a continuous 24 hour period is not only very tiring but exceedingly boring and in poor weather will exhaust a small crew in very short order. I also believe the quadrant attached to the aft part of the rudder is at the wrong angle if it had been place parallel to the waterline it would have moved horizontal instead of in a curved arc introducing small side loads to the roller leads. The steering wires will require bottle screws introduced into them to take up and adjust the tension as they will certainly stretch during operation. The transom leads which you are going to install will require adjustable glands otherwise water will constantly enter via the openings and all the fittings nuts etc., should have locking mechanisms besides just applying "lock tight" to the treads the loss of a bearing shaft due to it coming loose could be disastrous in poor weather. I don't wish to be disparaging but I am concerned about your safety and comfort when at sea.
I was going to say the same things as you did..installing this old system back in is a step backward...with the engineering problems with this install and the lack of automatic and redundant systems is even more troubling..this channel appears to be about commodification and click bait then about doing things correctly..I hope they are not in heavy or rough seas with this, more like a dock to dock cruiser I guess
Someone also suggested turnbuckles on each connection between the cable and chain to allow you to adjust tension . Make sure to safety wire those turnbuckles like we do on aircraft. Also I hope you plan to replace the mechanical clamps with Nicopress sleeves and use metal thimbles and a shackle for the cable ends. This is best practice for aircraft and boat cables. Keep up the great work. Cheers from Canada. Jim.
Also built an airplane here. I commented on those cable clamps, they Will rust at the rudder connection as they are at the moment. Swaging is the way to go. I install a lot of catenary cables for part of my job and outside those fitting always rust badly within 2 or 3 years. I am Not a boaty but from what I hear on other channels Dynema rope is a better option as is will not stretch but is quiet expensive.
All those inside pulleys need to be through bolted and not lag bolted & ideally those stern pulleys would work just as well inside the boat using very minimal holes for the cables and not in the following seas . The chain ends where the cables connect need bolts or pins.
You will eventually end up putting in a hydraulic steering system on a boat that size, that heavy and with THAT big of a rudder. The pulleys are oversize for the wire you are using. Either use thicker diameter wire to match the pulleys (which would have less stretch) or skinnier pulleys to keep them centered inside the groove. Need better connection method of wire ends and chain ends. Need a way to compensate for the wire stretch. Turnbuckles will work. How much stretch? If your standing rigging with heavy diameter stainless wire can stretch, use you imagination how much stretch there will be when the rudder is loaded when it is in the water and under way.
The transition connection from the chain to the cable is very suspect. Chains get their strength from being engaged on multiple teeth of the sprocket and not a single point load like you have.
Don’t forget to take extra keys with you for all of your key ways on the different shafts you need to have them for. Love to watch you and MJ. She’s so cute.
I'm sorry if I'm missing something here. I've no wish to criticise this amazing project, and Ben and MP's sheer guts and ambition BUT...Has nobody yet questioned the 'quadrant'? Surely a true quadrant should have a groove around the rim? Now I'm no sailor, but I've certainly seen a grooved quadrant on a boat before (SV Seeker, Zara and Odd Life, I think). Yabá's quadrant simply has the wires attached at the extreme ends. I thought the wires were supposed to pass over the curved grooved surface at all times, whatever angle the rudder is positioned, with each end attached centrally. That way, the quadrant behaves like a pulley wheel, and the tension is constant, over a wide angle of rudder movement, except after long-term stretching, which a turnbuckle can correct from time to time. The Yabá steering cables are simply attached to the ends of a shiny plate. I can see this should perform ok for the central range of the rudder. The natural elasticity of the long (thin?) wire may accommodate this. Adding spring tensioners might extend the efficient range of the rudder before unacceptable slackness and backlash occurs at the extremes of the (non-buffered) rudder movement. Without hydraulic help, the helmsperson may have a rough time handling the wheel. Please, somebody tell me I'm an ignorant landlubber with needless worries, a pedantic engineering geek who only ever built a Meccano (Erector) boat. I will gladly bow to your salty wisdom and experience.
After seeing MP at the wheel, I wonder if you could invent a fold down step up so she'll be able to see where your going the way you do Ben, at the same height.
NIT PICKING OBSERVATIONS: First off, great job! Nit #1 - the shackles connecting the cable to your quadrant present an abrasive wear point as metal rubs on metal. Perhaps something fixed to the quadrant could present an easily replaceable link. Nit #2 - Your steering cable is much smaller than the bronze guide pulleys. Being much harder, the smaller diameter cable may cut into the pulley. Have you considered something like Dyneema? Just thoughts. I’m no expert.
Agreed, pulley wheel (sheave) profiles are designed with the cable/rope diameters and material in mind. Larger diameter pulley wheel less stress on the cable. Right sized cable/rope gives less stress on the pulley wheel.
I was going to suggest adding a wearable part as well, you don't want that quadrent wearing out, that would be a lot more expensive. The cables tugging, and the saltwater will make for a pretty abrasive condition. I was going to suggest an eye bolt, but anything is better than wearing the quadrent. And I agree with a lot of the others, adding a turnbuckle will make your future adjustments a lot easier, especially under sail at sea if you notice slop in your steering.
Agree.. I believe a second nut would do a better job in securing the nuts from comming lose. Otherwise a locking pin would work well too, but you will need to drill the bolts which can be trick
Hey All, just an fyi don't remove that nipple when filling grease, see that little silver tip on the nipple, its meant for a grease gun, " don't take off the nipple to fill the grease it needs the pressure" keep up the great work guys!!!!!
FYI - on your pulleys, two things to make sure of ... 1) the inside part where the pulley sits CANNOT BE THREADED or it'll eat out the inside of the pulley. 2) use a Nyloc nut to hold the bolt in place. It won't back off.
I'm thinking that the steel ring on the ship's wheel would be a great place to engrave the names of friends and family who are special to you. They'd always be with you on your journeys.
I still believe the cable needs to be double the thickness, compared to the size/weight of the boat + forces of water (esp. in a storm). You really want to go oversize so you don´t loose the steering due to snapped cable. You will see how much strength is needed if you put the tiller on in water.
I whole heartedly agree that going oversize is certainly better than being undersized. In bad weather the loads on the steering system will be exceedingly high and should never be underestimated.
Absolutely - my reaction too. Must over-engineer rather than under-engineer! You've sorted out the cable routing - now you need to enlarge the pulleys to reduce repeated cable strain, and double the cable diameter to complete the work.
My only concern is the diameter of the steering cable itself. I would put as large of a diameter stainless wire as would fit your pulley sheeves. I do agree with a turnbuckle on one of the long runs. Further I might even add swage fitting for the loops on each end. The new pulley system looks great and the design is perfect. I would just beef it up with cable size and crimped swage loops on each end. I love watching you guys and never miss an episode. Keep up the good work!
Your boat is looking amazing. So lucky to have a yard where you can do your own work. Well done with the steering. Looking good. I would however consider a tensioning system of some sort to allow for any stretching over time. Once you're in the water & the rudder gets put under a lot more wait things will start to stretch to their comfy zone. Looking good though guys👍 keep up the good work 💪. SV Kiwi Lady Opua Bay of islands New Zealand 👍🏿
Ben, A surefire way to know when the rudder is centered is to have one spoke of the wheel at the 12 o'clock position and then make a Turks head to fit on the spoke. Also you will need turnbuckles, tensioners and soft guides on all the wire cables that make up the steering system. Plus I would suggest using a thicker gauge of wire for the steering system.
Ben, just a heads up that’s not a kid on the pulley axle. It is called a zurk fitting. The grease gun goes over the top of it and the grease pumps through the fitting. Keep up the good work.
The new setup looks much stronger and works the way it should. Good job. The rule for the saddle clamps on the cable is "Don't saddle a dead horse". That means do not put the saddle part of the clamp on the dead line (cut end of the cable). The "U" goes over the tail and the saddle goes over the working end of the line. Much stronger that way. I also see some slack in the cable which can cause problems. Turn buckles to be able to take up slack would be a simple thing to add.
The helm station is a very robust upgrade well done. The cable and connections are definitely under sized for the size of the boat and the pressure the rubber will put on the steering system. There are quite a few great suggestions on here that I think you need to evaluate. I have been watching from the beginning and the boat is looking great. I am excited to see it in the water. Be safe. ⛵🇺🇸
You should put a small bolt or pin through the end on the chain where the cable connects to strengthen the end of the chain. That chain is designed to have a pin through it for strength. The end of the chain is the weak link in the steering.
Ben always remember that you never put a saddle on a dead horse,if you don't know what that means find an experienced rigger and ask him to explain it 😊
The rudder cable looks undersized relative to the transom pulleys. May want to add turnbuckles for future cable tightening once stretched. Consider replacing nuts with nylock nuts. Masive upgrade from previous. Easier to turn, more robust.
Very well done! If I may pass on just two suggestions. The top of your steering gear should be covered, to prevent any wires or other foreign object from falling into the gears and jam your steering. You can bet that if that ever happened, it would be when you are in a tight place and really need your steering. The other suggestion, is to put some method of adjusting the tension of the steel cable. It will stretch over time, and will cause your steering to become sloppy. A simple turnbuckle in line on both lines to the rudder, one on each line, would be all it takes. Cheers from Winnipeg.
A suggestion on those mission critical nuts that you cannot tighten. A second nut, with or without a washer, can be tightened to the first to give an extremely strong tension. Loctite is good, not perfect.
My thoughts: A longer chain should have been used moving the joints below ceiling height, the joints would not have to pass through any restrictions because if there is a chance it will get caught then it will, daily inspections will be easier as failure points are visible, wire to chain should be via a replacable link like a shackle because if the wire breaks at that point then now the wire is too short for the system, which leads into the fact you need a means of adjustment not only for a worse case scenario but also because the wire will stretch, finaly I would suggest as like others have that a suitable sized spring is fitted, it will help keep the system under a small amount of tension but more importantly it gives a shock absorber in case the rudder is hit by a submerged article eg sea bed or log, etc, currently if that happens it will rip your pulleys out resulting in a loss of stearing.
Just a thought, looping the cable to the quadrant with shackles will cause them to slowly wear through the metal as the angle of the rudder changes. Bolting a S.S. strap hinge to the quadrant, (after sawing off the ends with the second unneeded hole), will allow the cable to remain on the same plane without rocking the shackle back and forth. A pair of sturdy turnbuckles below the helm, between the chain and cable, will allow re-tensioning the steering without reclamping the wire... And that wire rope should be lubed, especially the part exposed to the sea. 'LANOLENE™ MARINEX' is one of many lanolin based wire lubes meant for marine use... Nothing wrong with 'learn as you go', as long as it's not something your life will depend on. That's when you call in the pros. And you and MP are becoming the 'Pros'... face-blue-smiling
Now that you have upgraded your steering chain, I would Advise to make it longer so that you don,t have to worry about the wire clamps Also dispense with the wire clamps and have the hard eyes staged and have 4 part shackles to connect the ends
I don’t think there’s room for longer chain, but definitely try to swage (not “stage”, damn autocorrect) eyes on the cable rather than using clamps which run the risk of catching. You’ll need a turnbuckle to adjust the length, but could use one set of clamps on a cable overlap in an unobstructed straight run area to compensate for stretch down the road. Swage tools are relatively cheap and nice to have aboard anyway.
Ben for the steering cables you might want to add some plastic or metal conduit piping to house the cables so the cables don't hang down or get caught in anything between the pullies and it will protect the cables if anything gets up against them.
Ben, where the cable goes through the chain link, put a screw, flat washers and lock-tite the nuts on, through the hollow roller. This will prevent the side plates from possibly moving off the roller, allowing the wire to come off, and you having to put on the emergency tiller, during a possibly ugly time in a seaway, or when docking. Also, YES, to your comment, about beefing up the pulley mounting points, where they are on sub-structure, ie bulkheads, mounting blocks, and not frame members/deck beams. Best wishes from the far North.
Alanc518. When steering a boat with a wheel when you want to to starboard (right) you turn the wheel to the right as you do in a car. This is an instinctive action. You can achieve this by crossing the cables in the engine room for instance.Trust me in tight quarters and stressful moments instinct kicks in!You definitely need turnbuckles to tension the system . Your rudder is big and will impart a loy of force on the system so it has to be super strong. Alan c (uk)
What you now need are two eye bolts with a nut and lock nut through the eyes on the quarter edge. The control wires must be attached to this so that you can tension the wires. The wires stretch quite quickly when they are new. good luck!
I like your steering modifications. But I think, as previously mentioned, a turnbuckle would be good. And a bigger gage wire. Not for strength but to better fit in the pulleys. If too thin wire, it will get Flatt as it put stress on just a small surface of the pulleys. Love your work! ❤ Tobbe
Someone already mentioned this but it bears repeating to save you a lot of work and time keeping the pulleys greased: The brass 'cap' on the end of the pulley axle DOESN'T NEED TO COME OFF to add grease. That fitting is called a 'zerk' and is designed so that the end of a common grease 'gun' ( a hand pump with a tube of grease in it and a small hose with a coupler on the end) fits over it and you just pump the grease in. The tiny ball bearing on the end of the zerk acts like a check valve and allows the grease to go in when you put it under pressure using the grease gun, but springs back to prevent grease from leaking back out. This kind of fitting is universal on most machinery that needs greasing periodically and I suspect you may find them on some of your engine and driveline parts, or like on your deck winch. So buy a grease gun, some tubes of grease, and keep'm greased without fuss!
Great solution. Make sure you add a removable connection at the rudder. That’s a lot of friction on the rudder bracket. It’ll start wearing slots in that stainless. Easier to replace another small piece than that beautiful stainless bracket. Again… Great Job!
Good job Ben, don't forget to grease the chain and the grease fittings. Trust me metal on metal will wear as time goes by. As always be safe stay healthy and enjoy your week 😊
Good improvements, but im wondering about those wall mounted pulleys. Arent those oriented incorrectly? The force will be on the short end of the fastening. I think those are supposed to be floor mounted. But, im just a guy on the internet, so i’m sure there’s an expert that will know.
Nylon Lock Nuts never come loose! Especially when they are mounted upside down like you have on those pulleys, And...you don't have to be tightened down as hard as you represented to us here.
It looks like some of your pulley brackets are held on with lag bolts. Through bolts with large fender washers would be much better. There is a lot of strain at these points and you don’t want to lose steering while at sea.
I’m still not sure about the strength of the lower pulleys below the chain. They look like they will get pulled out . Maybe you could put a strap of metal bolted to the top of the pulley bracket down to a point lower on the bulkhead to add some strength. Also fit a pair of turn buckles on the longest cable run so you can tension the cables. Stagger the cuts you make in the cables so the turn buckles don’t pass each other when the wheel is turned. I’ve worked on sailing boats for years and most steering damage is caused while reversing. The forces on the rudder when reversing and turning are huge and I really think the first two pulleys under the chain are the weakest as the bolts are in shear against the pull of the chain and the cable.
If it were me, I'd drill the 6 pully axels to accommodate cotter pins rather than relying only on thread lock. Another upgrade would be castle nuts. All this just for peace of mind. Your pullies look large enough to use much thicker wire rope, you might want to keep a length on board as a spare. I second the turnbuckle idea.
I have really enjoyed following the Yaba rebuild to date. Now that you're starting to work on the steering and other critical systems, I highly recommend you research the breaking strength of the wire rope and the ratio of wire rope diameter to pulley diameter as well as using turn buckles or tensioning pulleys. Larger pulleys create less stress on the wire rope, which I believe is undersized for your steering system. There is also a correct way to fasten wire rope clips and the number and spacing of clips that should be used.
Hmm.Big improvement... BUT... I am still concerned about the termination on the quadrant. Those eyes through the holes in the quadrant ends will cause massive wear to those quadrant holes.... that will be expensive to repair. I think you need a swivel bolted through it so that the movement is in the swivel. I am also surprised you didn't use Dynema instead of stainless wire. Dynema won't stretch & is stronger than the steel. Finally, the guy who drilled the holes... @ 1:51 Are you sure you haven't kidnapped 'Mads' from 'Sail Life' ?
Small thought, if you take a small piece of leather and make a slit two it’s middle and then take a large washer with a small opening that you cut in half and drill holes in or just take a whole drill that has the center guide drill with the outer circular saw to make a hole Then you could use wood instead of metal as a clamping mechanism to the leather. Place the leather on your cable for your steering on the inside of your transom so is it the center part of the cut is just touching the cable then put your ring around it and fasten it down. This will work like a gasket to help keep water from coming in from following seas or any other reason why water might find its way up that high on the back of the transom. I know the holes are small, but it’s still a hole that will lead water in. By making the leather gasket you’ll help slow it down.
I’m going to give you this info. “Never saddle a dead horse”. This is important advice. Google the quote and then print it out and keep it in you boat file. DO THIS.
Cables look very undersized and most likely will stretch like crazy considering the loads from that huge rudder even in normal seas. Considering double thickness, tensioner and improved terminations.
Nice job. Just a suggestion, in have weather if there's any slack in the cable the rudder will slam put alot of strain onthe cable. The cable must stay tight (no slack). There are a few ways to do it. Turnbuckles would be easier. Good luck.
Love your improvements. My only suggestion is to add a "tensioning device" to keep the wires taught. It can be as simple as a pully riding on the long run of the wires attached to a spring so that when the wire stretches you do not have to keep tightening them.
You should make a nice small yaba emblem and install it on the top of the wheel when it's dead straight so when you turn and come back straight you know that your rudder is in the correct position 😊
2 1/2 turns, lock to lock - Ferrari. 4 turns lock to lock, motorsailer. I like the way you made a complete 'chapter' - start to finish, out of this segment.
You might want to double up on the fasteners for the cable and alternate the side for the saddles. For proper termination multiple fasteners are usually used .
After reading the comments, common themes seem to be 1. Turnbuckles to allow adjust as the cables stretch (which they will). 2. Possibly heavier cable to allow for excess loads from heavy seas etc. 3. Shielding it from debris etc that could jam the steering (which would invariably happen when you need it most). Perhaps at a some future time, given the size and mass of that rudder, consider using hydraulics instead. More expensive but helps with steering effort and reduces backlash and rudder loads transmitted to the wheel.
Hey, cheering the improved steering. Great work. Glad to hear you're installing a tube through the transom. Before you install the tube, seal the wood because moisture will get in. Thanks for another episode - always look forward to them, Cheers from Vancouver, BC, Canada
BEN USE A COPPER TUBE INSTEAD OF STEEL YOU DON'T WANT DRY ROT TO OCCUR IN YOUR TRANSOM. O make sure you grease that chain and sprocket behind your steering wheel. Then you should be good to go , Ben, cheers bud.
I really hope you packed that barring on the inside of the steering box before you finished putting it together. Also put some waterproof sticky grease onto the gears as they mesh in the box. Then on the outside where you will have the wire clamps I would seal those U -Clamps with some sort of water proofing because they will rust like mad if you do not. Then I also suggest you have a backup Dyneema rope specifically for your steering in case the wire has problems. You might also want some spare Dyneema for other backups and some frictionless rings as well in case a block dies on you.
Recommend keeping several er ral changes of new steering cable aboard. Every angle change is a "work" point on the cable. While under tension, those points will work harden and wear, potentially causing failure/breakage. It may not seem much; but imagine/count how many times per mile or hour you *may* turn the wheel...even a little bit😮
Come to Hawaii and I will host you on the Big Island. I've been building my beautiful home that I designed... Patterned after my fav boats... For the same length of time you both have been refitting your beautiful vessel. Always welcomed. One suggestion... Build a wood housing over exposed cables below so puppies, MP,s hair and flying objects, while in big seas will not affect your steering. Great job.
Be sure to have an emergency tiller made that attaches securely and quickly to the headstock of the rudder, it can save your life. You have vastly underestimated the forces your large heavy rudder will place on it's steering system...constantly, then think of shock loads.
I would put a turnbuckle on both sides of the cable run to allow you to tighten the steering cables over time. The cable will stretch over time and you need to be able to take that slack out. You could use a tensioner pulley as well. The general idea is to be able to tighten without undoing the cable clamps holding it all together.
Absolutely
Great advice!
Strongly concur.
brilliant suggestion
A strongly sprung tensioner pully will help greatly with rudder shock. Just in case you hit an object (Sperm Whale) or s bit of coral.
Just a reminder - you know this already - but just saying - the steering system is the most crucial of all the systems on the boat. It cannot afford to EVER break or jam, so it needs to be over-engineered to be on the safe side. Pulley diameters need to be considerably larger to reduce repeated bending strain on the cables, and the cable itself should be at least twice the diameter that you're using. Don't forget Murphy's Law ... "If anything can go wrong, it will." Love your channel.
Hi guys that's certainly an improvement but there are a few things missing. You need a breaking system to secure the rudder in the midships position so that it does not thrash around when not in use. How do you propose adding automatic steering? Helming a boat on a continuous 24 hour period is not only very tiring but exceedingly boring and in poor weather will exhaust a small crew in very short order. I also believe the quadrant attached to the aft part of the rudder is at the wrong angle if it had been place parallel to the waterline it would have moved horizontal instead of in a curved arc introducing small side loads to the roller leads. The steering wires will require bottle screws introduced into them to take up and adjust the tension as they will certainly stretch during operation. The transom leads which you are going to install will require adjustable glands otherwise water will constantly enter via the openings and all the fittings nuts etc., should have locking mechanisms besides just applying "lock tight" to the treads the loss of a bearing shaft due to it coming loose could be disastrous in poor weather.
I don't wish to be disparaging but I am concerned about your safety and comfort when at sea.
A very comprehensive and logical comment.. (5 stars) 🙂
Excellent ideas
"You need a breaking system..."
No, they don't want it broken!
I was going to say the same things as you did..installing this old system back in is a step backward...with the engineering problems with this install and the lack of automatic and redundant systems is even more troubling..this channel appears to be about commodification and click bait then about doing things correctly..I hope they are not in heavy or rough seas with this, more like a dock to dock cruiser I guess
@@manolisgledsodakis873 They should add a braking system instead....
Google 'never put a saddle on a dead horse' there are also videos to show you the right way. Good luck guys.
Someone also suggested turnbuckles on each connection between the cable and chain to allow you to adjust tension . Make sure to safety wire those turnbuckles like we do on aircraft. Also I hope you plan to replace the mechanical clamps with Nicopress sleeves and use metal thimbles and a shackle for the cable ends. This is best practice for aircraft and boat cables. Keep up the great work. Cheers from Canada. Jim.
Also built an airplane here. I commented on those cable clamps, they Will rust at the rudder connection as they are at the moment. Swaging is the way to go. I install a lot of catenary cables for part of my job and outside those fitting always rust badly within 2 or 3 years. I am Not a boaty but from what I hear on other channels Dynema rope is a better option as is will not stretch but is quiet expensive.
All those inside pulleys need to be through bolted and not lag bolted & ideally those stern pulleys would work just as well inside the boat using very minimal holes for the cables and not in the following seas . The chain ends where the cables connect need bolts or pins.
Yes I agree. I Ive seen a few of those work themselves loose.
@@egonkemp3512
You will eventually end up putting in a hydraulic steering system on a boat that size, that heavy and with THAT big of a rudder.
The pulleys are oversize for the wire you are using.
Either use thicker diameter wire to match the pulleys (which would have less stretch) or skinnier pulleys to keep them centered inside the groove.
Need better connection method of wire ends and chain ends.
Need a way to compensate for the wire stretch. Turnbuckles will work.
How much stretch? If your standing rigging with heavy diameter stainless wire can stretch, use you imagination how much stretch there will be when the rudder is loaded when it is in the water and under way.
The transition connection from the chain to the cable is very suspect. Chains get their strength from being engaged on multiple teeth of the sprocket and not a single point load like you have.
Don’t forget to take extra keys with you for all of your key ways on the different shafts you need to have them for. Love to watch you and MJ. She’s so cute.
I'm sorry if I'm missing something here. I've no wish to criticise this amazing project, and Ben and MP's sheer guts and ambition BUT...Has nobody yet questioned the 'quadrant'? Surely a true quadrant should have a groove around the rim? Now I'm no sailor, but I've certainly seen a grooved quadrant on a boat before (SV Seeker, Zara and Odd Life, I think). Yabá's quadrant simply has the wires attached at the extreme ends. I thought the wires were supposed to pass over the curved grooved surface at all times, whatever angle the rudder is positioned, with each end attached centrally. That way, the quadrant behaves like a pulley wheel, and the tension is constant, over a wide angle of rudder movement, except after long-term stretching, which a turnbuckle can correct from time to time. The Yabá steering cables are simply attached to the ends of a shiny plate. I can see this should perform ok for the central range of the rudder. The natural elasticity of the long (thin?) wire may accommodate this. Adding spring tensioners might extend the efficient range of the rudder before unacceptable slackness and backlash occurs at the extremes of the (non-buffered) rudder movement. Without hydraulic help, the helmsperson may have a rough time handling the wheel. Please, somebody tell me I'm an ignorant landlubber with needless worries, a pedantic engineering geek who only ever built a Meccano (Erector) boat. I will gladly bow to your salty wisdom and experience.
Contrats, great improvements !
Ben, never say never. You said this was the last time you would ever do this job on another boat. I bet you never thought Duca would sell ODD.
After seeing MP at the wheel, I wonder if you could invent a fold down step up so she'll be able to see where your going the way you do Ben, at the same height.
👋👋👋👋👋
NIT PICKING OBSERVATIONS: First off, great job! Nit #1 - the shackles connecting the cable to your quadrant present an abrasive wear point as metal rubs on metal. Perhaps something fixed to the quadrant could present an easily replaceable link. Nit #2 - Your steering cable is much smaller than the bronze guide pulleys. Being much harder, the smaller diameter cable may cut into the pulley. Have you considered something like Dyneema? Just thoughts. I’m no expert.
Agreed, pulley wheel (sheave) profiles are designed with the cable/rope diameters and material in mind. Larger diameter pulley wheel less stress on the cable. Right sized cable/rope gives less stress on the pulley wheel.
I was going to suggest adding a wearable part as well, you don't want that quadrent wearing out, that would be a lot more expensive. The cables tugging, and the saltwater will make for a pretty abrasive condition. I was going to suggest an eye bolt, but anything is better than wearing the quadrent. And I agree with a lot of the others, adding a turnbuckle will make your future adjustments a lot easier, especially under sail at sea if you notice slop in your steering.
I think you should using self locking nuts on those axle grease bolts. Good luck.
or split pinning/locking wire them in place, and using turnbuckles to tension the cable
I agree.
Double nuts. Tightened against each other. No need for thread locker, which can be hard to remove in an emergency.
Agree.. I believe a second nut would do a better job in securing the nuts from comming lose. Otherwise a locking pin would work well too, but you will need to drill the bolts which can be trick
Or cotter pins
Hey All, just an fyi don't remove that nipple when filling grease, see that little silver tip on the nipple, its meant for a grease gun, " don't take off the nipple to fill the grease it needs the pressure" keep up the great work guys!!!!!
Another comment from the coach😊 but I think you should prime and grease the steering box. Under a year it’s going to be all rust. In my opinion. 🙂
FYI - on your pulleys, two things to make sure of ...
1) the inside part where the pulley sits CANNOT BE THREADED or it'll eat out the inside of the pulley.
2) use a Nyloc nut to hold the bolt in place. It won't back off.
you need to add turnbuckles on the wire to take up the slack
as the wire stretches
I'm thinking that the steel ring on the ship's wheel would be a great place to engrave the names of friends and family who are special to you. They'd always be with you on your journeys.
I still believe the cable needs to be double the thickness, compared to the size/weight of the boat + forces of water (esp. in a storm). You really want to go oversize so you don´t loose the steering due to snapped cable. You will see how much strength is needed if you put the tiller on in water.
I whole heartedly agree that going oversize is certainly better than being undersized. In bad weather the loads on the steering system will be exceedingly high and should never be underestimated.
I agree the old adage still applies. If it looks right it probably is right. And that cable doesn’t look right.
Absolutely - my reaction too. Must over-engineer rather than under-engineer! You've sorted out the cable routing - now you need to enlarge the pulleys to reduce repeated cable strain, and double the cable diameter to complete the work.
I would invest in a hydrolic steering ram insert of cables, good job!! 👍🏼😎🇵🇷
Nice job. But I think that your pulley diameter sizes are to small. I would double the size. Alot easier on the cables.
Indeed cdn.strandcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Bend-Radius.pdf Also one of the cables has slack because non-linear design.
The grease cap is actually called a zirt fitting. You tighten them in the axle hole and pump the axle with grease with a grease gun
This is an important comment. Don’t neglect figuring out how to use a grease zirc with a grease gun. It will save you a ton of time.
My only concern is the diameter of the steering cable itself. I would put as large of a diameter stainless wire as would fit your pulley sheeves. I do agree with a turnbuckle on one of the long runs. Further I might even add swage fitting for the loops on each end. The new pulley system looks great and the design is perfect. I would just beef it up with cable size and crimped swage loops on each end. I love watching you guys and never miss an episode. Keep up the good work!
Love the Spirit Animal shirt. My other favorite boat restoration UA-cam.
11:04 make sure you get a pin threw that last link
Your boat is looking amazing. So lucky to have a yard where you can do your own work. Well done with the steering. Looking good. I would however consider a tensioning system of some sort to allow for any stretching over time. Once you're in the water & the rudder gets put under a lot more wait things will start to stretch to their comfy zone. Looking good though guys👍 keep up the good work 💪. SV Kiwi Lady Opua Bay of islands New Zealand 👍🏿
I sure hope that cable is big enough to handle the drag on the rudder when under way !! Don't forget to add turnbuckles for adjustability !!
Ben, A surefire way to know when the rudder is centered is to have one spoke of the wheel at the 12 o'clock position and then make a Turks head to fit on the spoke. Also you will need turnbuckles, tensioners and soft guides on all the wire cables that make up the steering system. Plus I would suggest using a thicker gauge of wire for the steering system.
Ben, just a heads up that’s not a kid on the pulley axle. It is called a zurk fitting. The grease gun goes over the top of it and the grease pumps through the fitting.
Keep up the good work.
The new setup looks much stronger and works the way it should. Good job. The rule for the saddle clamps on the cable is "Don't saddle a dead horse". That means do not put the saddle part of the clamp on the dead line (cut end of the cable). The "U" goes over the tail and the saddle goes over the working end of the line. Much stronger that way.
I also see some slack in the cable which can cause problems. Turn buckles to be able to take up slack would be a simple thing to add.
The helm station is a very robust upgrade well done. The cable and connections are definitely under sized for the size of the boat and the pressure the rubber will put on the steering system. There are quite a few great suggestions on here that I think you need to evaluate. I have been watching from the beginning and the boat is looking great. I am excited to see it in the water. Be safe. ⛵🇺🇸
You should put a small bolt or pin through the end on the chain where the cable connects to strengthen the end of the chain. That chain is designed to have a pin through it for strength. The end of the chain is the weak link in the steering.
It would be a pleasure to meet you on the water some where. You guys are getting close, keep it up and I will see you soon.
Ben always remember that you never put a saddle on a dead horse,if you don't know what that means find an experienced rigger and ask him to explain it 😊
Amen@@ski69
The rudder cable looks undersized relative to the transom pulleys. May want to add turnbuckles for future cable tightening once stretched. Consider replacing nuts with nylock nuts. Masive upgrade from previous. Easier to turn, more robust.
Very well done! If I may pass on just two suggestions. The top of your steering gear should be covered, to prevent any wires or other foreign object from falling into the gears and jam your steering. You can bet that if that ever happened, it would be when you are in a tight place and really need your steering. The other suggestion, is to put some method of adjusting the tension of the steel cable. It will stretch over time, and will cause your steering to become sloppy. A simple turnbuckle in line on both lines to the rudder, one on each line, would be all it takes. Cheers from Winnipeg.
A suggestion on those mission critical nuts that you cannot tighten. A second nut, with or without a washer, can be tightened to the first to give an extremely strong tension. Loctite is good, not perfect.
Ben, consider addin a cot pin so those nuts can not uncrew and fall
Yes! Better than my idea.@@sergiomorilla8530
Good job on the steering system. It's effective, reliable, simple, and redundant. That's all you need.
The Sweet Smell of Success. Congratulations for sticking with it all the way to the winner's circle. You don't learn if you can't make mistakes.
I feel this video deserves it and so do you. It's not much but I hope it helps my favourite project which I enjoy so much. James.
fantastic, I hope you can splash for Christmas or New Years eve
My thoughts: A longer chain should have been used moving the joints below ceiling height, the joints would not have to pass through any restrictions because if there is a chance it will get caught then it will, daily inspections will be easier as failure points are visible, wire to chain should be via a replacable link like a shackle because if the wire breaks at that point then now the wire is too short for the system, which leads into the fact you need a means of adjustment not only for a worse case scenario but also because the wire will stretch, finaly I would suggest as like others have that a suitable sized spring is fitted, it will help keep the system under a small amount of tension but more importantly it gives a shock absorber in case the rudder is hit by a submerged article eg sea bed or log, etc, currently if that happens it will rip your pulleys out resulting in a loss of stearing.
Just a thought, looping the cable to the quadrant with shackles will cause them to slowly wear through the metal as the angle of the rudder changes. Bolting a S.S. strap hinge to the quadrant, (after sawing off the ends with the second unneeded hole), will allow the cable to remain on the same plane without rocking the shackle back and forth. A pair of sturdy turnbuckles below the helm, between the chain and cable, will allow re-tensioning the steering without reclamping the wire... And that wire rope should be lubed, especially the part exposed to the sea. 'LANOLENE™ MARINEX' is one of many lanolin based wire lubes meant for marine use... Nothing wrong with 'learn as you go', as long as it's not something your life will depend on. That's when you call in the pros. And you and MP are becoming the 'Pros'... face-blue-smiling
Now that you have upgraded your steering chain, I would Advise to make it longer so that you don,t have to worry about the wire clamps
Also dispense with the wire clamps and have the hard eyes staged and have 4 part shackles to connect the ends
I don’t think there’s room for longer chain, but definitely try to swage (not “stage”, damn autocorrect) eyes on the cable rather than using clamps which run the risk of catching. You’ll need a turnbuckle to adjust the length, but could use one set of clamps on a cable overlap in an unobstructed straight run area to compensate for stretch down the road. Swage tools are relatively cheap and nice to have aboard anyway.
Ben for the steering cables you might want to add some plastic or metal conduit piping to house the cables so the cables don't hang down or get caught in anything between the pullies and it will protect the cables if anything gets up against them.
Think hydrolics , a ram would make steering a whole lot easier
your cable clamps are on backwards...always put the u shaped clamp on the tail of the wire
Ben, where the cable goes through the chain link, put a screw, flat washers and lock-tite the nuts on, through the hollow roller. This will prevent the side plates from possibly moving off the roller, allowing the wire to come off, and you having to put on the emergency tiller, during a possibly ugly time in a seaway, or when docking.
Also, YES, to your comment, about beefing up the pulley mounting points, where they are on sub-structure, ie bulkheads, mounting blocks, and not frame members/deck beams.
Best wishes from the far North.
The new chain is the type of overkill I like to see 😄
Alanc518. When steering a boat with a wheel when you want to to starboard (right) you turn the wheel to the right as you do in a car. This is an instinctive action. You can achieve this by crossing the cables in the engine room for instance.Trust me in tight quarters and stressful moments instinct kicks in!You definitely need turnbuckles to tension the system . Your rudder is big and will impart a loy of force on the system so it has to be super strong. Alan c (uk)
Well done Ben! I couldn’t even fathom a guess as to the mathematics involved to have worked out all of the systems geometry!
What you now need are two eye bolts with a nut and lock nut through the eyes on the quarter edge. The control wires must be attached to this so that you can tension the wires. The wires stretch quite quickly when they are new. good luck!
I like your steering modifications. But I think, as previously mentioned, a turnbuckle would be good. And a bigger gage wire. Not for strength but to better fit in the pulleys. If too thin wire, it will get Flatt as it put stress on just a small surface of the pulleys.
Love your work! ❤
Tobbe
Someone already mentioned this but it bears repeating to save you a lot of work and time keeping the pulleys greased: The brass 'cap' on the end of the pulley axle DOESN'T NEED TO COME OFF to add grease. That fitting is called a 'zerk' and is designed so that the end of a common grease 'gun' ( a hand pump with a tube of grease in it and a small hose with a coupler on the end) fits over it and you just pump the grease in. The tiny ball bearing on the end of the zerk acts like a check valve and allows the grease to go in when you put it under pressure using the grease gun, but springs back to prevent grease from leaking back out. This kind of fitting is universal on most machinery that needs greasing periodically and I suspect you may find them on some of your engine and driveline parts, or like on your deck winch. So buy a grease gun, some tubes of grease, and keep'm greased without fuss!
Great solution. Make sure you add a removable connection at the rudder. That’s a lot of friction on the rudder bracket. It’ll start wearing slots in that stainless. Easier to replace another small piece than that beautiful stainless bracket. Again… Great Job!
Good job Ben, don't forget to grease the chain and the grease fittings. Trust me metal on metal will wear as time goes by. As always be safe stay healthy and enjoy your week 😊
Good improvements, but im wondering about those wall mounted pulleys. Arent those oriented incorrectly? The force will be on the short end of the fastening. I think those are supposed to be floor mounted. But, im just a guy on the internet, so i’m sure there’s an expert that will know.
Have you got a rudder indicator on the helm station? Pretty useful!
I thought the same , perhaps I missed it . King pin on the wheel for mid ships
Way to go Ben. That is an excellent fix. Well done.
Nylon Lock Nuts never come loose! Especially when they are mounted upside down like you have on those pulleys, And...you don't have to be tightened down as hard as you represented to us here.
7:50 - all I could think was "OMD - a piece of Yaba that hasn't been replaced!".
It looks like some of your pulley brackets are held on with lag bolts. Through bolts with large fender washers would be much better. There is a lot of strain at these points and you don’t want to lose steering while at sea.
I’m still not sure about the strength of the lower pulleys below the chain. They look like they will get pulled out . Maybe you could put a strap of metal bolted to the top of the pulley bracket down to a point lower on the bulkhead to add some strength. Also fit a pair of turn buckles on the longest cable run so you can tension the cables. Stagger the cuts you make in the cables so the turn buckles don’t pass each other when the wheel is turned. I’ve worked on sailing boats for years and most steering damage is caused while reversing. The forces on the rudder when reversing and turning are huge and I really think the first two pulleys under the chain are the weakest as the bolts are in shear against the pull of the chain and the cable.
The point where the cable connects to the rudder bracket is likely a future wear point @22:20.
If it were me, I'd drill the 6 pully axels to accommodate cotter pins rather than relying only on thread lock. Another upgrade would be castle nuts. All this just for peace of mind. Your pullies look large enough to use much thicker wire rope, you might want to keep a length on board as a spare. I second the turnbuckle idea.
Would you not need a spring tensioning assembly on the steering cable?
I have really enjoyed following the Yaba rebuild to date. Now that you're starting to work on the steering and other critical systems, I highly recommend you research the breaking strength of the wire rope and the ratio of wire rope diameter to pulley diameter as well as using turn buckles or tensioning pulleys. Larger pulleys create less stress on the wire rope, which I believe is undersized for your steering system. There is also a correct way to fasten wire rope clips and the number and spacing of clips that should be used.
Hmm.Big improvement... BUT... I am still concerned about the termination on the quadrant. Those eyes through the holes in the quadrant ends will cause massive wear to those quadrant holes.... that will be expensive to repair. I think you need a swivel bolted through it so that the movement is in the swivel.
I am also surprised you didn't use Dynema instead of stainless wire. Dynema won't stretch & is stronger than the steel.
Finally, the guy who drilled the holes... @ 1:51 Are you sure you haven't kidnapped 'Mads' from 'Sail Life' ?
Maybe put some stopper (with rubber) on the swimming platform beams (25:37) so the rudder stops and does not hit.
Small thought, if you take a small piece of leather and make a slit two it’s middle and then take a large washer with a small opening that you cut in half and drill holes in or just take a whole drill that has the center guide drill with the outer circular saw to make a hole Then you could use wood instead of metal as a clamping mechanism to the leather. Place the leather on your cable for your steering on the inside of your transom so is it the center part of the cut is just touching the cable then put your ring around it and fasten it down. This will work like a gasket to help keep water from coming in from following seas or any other reason why water might find its way up that high on the back of the transom. I know the holes are small, but it’s still a hole that will lead water in. By making the leather gasket you’ll help slow it down.
Had you ever considered a hydraulic steering system? Much cleaner install, zero slack, and lower resistance.
I think you will also have to put a limit switch, because if the cable stretches, it could cause the chain to come out of the gear wheel.
I would put thru bolts through the Transom instead of Lag Bolts.🎉
I’m going to give you this info. “Never saddle a dead horse”. This is important advice. Google the quote and then print it out and keep it in you boat file. DO THIS.
Every item checked off puts you that much closer to being back into the water. Keep up the great work and have a great week ahead
Cables look very undersized and most likely will stretch like crazy considering the loads from that huge rudder even in normal seas. Considering double thickness, tensioner and improved terminations.
Nice job. Just a suggestion, in have weather if there's any slack in the cable the rudder will slam put alot of strain onthe cable. The cable must stay tight (no slack). There are a few ways to do it. Turnbuckles would be easier. Good luck.
Do you mean "heavy weather"?
Love your improvements. My only suggestion is to add a "tensioning device" to keep the wires taught. It can be as simple as a pully riding on the long run of the wires attached to a spring so that when the wire stretches you do not have to keep tightening them.
You should make a nice small yaba emblem and install it on the top of the wheel when it's dead straight so when you turn and come back straight you know that your rudder is in the correct position 😊
Well done Ben your getting there is still some good advice being given but well done both of you MP i think will need a step see you next week 😊😊😊
2 1/2 turns, lock to lock - Ferrari. 4 turns lock to lock, motorsailer.
I like the way you made a complete 'chapter' - start to finish, out of this segment.
So happy for you to have worked out the steering system.❤
A turnbuckle on each side of the cables, and a thicker cable might be a good idea
Like kid with a new toy 😃😃😃
You might want to double up on the fasteners for the cable and alternate the side for the saddles. For proper termination multiple fasteners are usually used .
After reading the comments, common themes seem to be 1. Turnbuckles to allow adjust as the cables stretch (which they will). 2. Possibly heavier cable to allow for excess loads from heavy seas etc. 3. Shielding it from debris etc that could jam the steering (which would invariably happen when you need it most). Perhaps at a some future time, given the size and mass of that rudder, consider using hydraulics instead. More expensive but helps with steering effort and reduces backlash and rudder loads transmitted to the wheel.
Hey, cheering the improved steering. Great work.
Glad to hear you're installing a tube through the transom. Before you install the tube, seal the wood because moisture will get in.
Thanks for another episode - always look forward to them,
Cheers from Vancouver, BC, Canada
Good job ! I would suggest if it has not yet been, to add a teflon plate between the steering chains and the wood bulkhead to avoid ragging.
......I need a coffee first. Best comment ever Ben, that made my day.
I really love to see every single upgrade and progress of yaba. Good job guys❤❤❤
You are the coolest couple. Thanks heeps for your work. Fantastic 😅😊
BEN USE A COPPER TUBE INSTEAD OF STEEL YOU DON'T WANT DRY ROT TO OCCUR IN YOUR TRANSOM. O make sure you grease that chain and sprocket behind your steering wheel. Then you should be good to go , Ben, cheers bud.
Great Job Mate, Don't Forget To Lubricate Every Gog, Gear, Pulley And Bearings and The Chain, Of Course!😎
I really hope you packed that barring on the inside of the steering box before you finished putting it together. Also put some waterproof sticky grease onto the gears as they mesh in the box. Then on the outside where you will have the wire clamps I would seal those U -Clamps with some sort of water proofing because they will rust like mad if you do not. Then I also suggest you have a backup Dyneema rope specifically for your steering in case the wire has problems. You might also want some spare Dyneema for other backups and some frictionless rings as well in case a block dies on you.
Marvelous episode, truly remarkable update.
Recommend keeping several er ral changes of new steering cable aboard. Every angle change is a "work" point on the cable. While under tension, those points will work harden and wear, potentially causing failure/breakage.
It may not seem much; but imagine/count how many times per mile or hour you *may* turn the wheel...even a little bit😮
Real Glade to see the steering is complete! It runs so smooth and quiet. Great job!
Come to Hawaii and I will host you on the Big Island. I've been building my beautiful home that I designed... Patterned after my fav boats... For the same length of time you both have been refitting your beautiful vessel. Always welcomed.
One suggestion... Build a wood housing over exposed cables below so puppies, MP,s hair and flying objects, while in big seas will not affect your steering. Great job.
Be sure to have an emergency tiller made that attaches securely and quickly to the headstock of the rudder, it can save your life. You have vastly underestimated the forces your large heavy rudder will place on it's steering system...constantly, then think of shock loads.
Those self greasing pulleys are awesome! I had no idea they existed, so cool (3:20).