@@thatguyalex2835 ⚠ God has said in the Quran: 🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) 🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) 🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) 🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) 🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) ⚠ Quran
@@thatguyalex2835⚠️ God has said in the Quran: 🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) 🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) 🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) 🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) 🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) ⚠️ Quran
It’s great to see someone that goes through the calculations and explains the graphs to show the “why and how” instead of just showing it working or not. Thumbs up for the presentation of materials!
Most important of all, he showed those graphs. I needed someone to explain it. It seems pretty simple now but it is nice to have someone present it. I would like to achieve really low temps with TEC. Maybe I will use CPU heatsinks with heat pipes to pump away the heat.
Oh i'd LOVE to see them collaborate once! Would be a total geek-out! Or at least the conversations between them would be more than interesting/entertaining :)
Recently discovered your channel and bench watched every video. Is all this research and experimentation just for "fun"? If so you're living the dream!
I love this channel! While I admit your TEC project is less exciting to me personally than your turbojet project (sorry), I absolutely love the way you present and approach each project you're working doing. That presentation and the explanation gets me interested in what's going on and keeps me interest irrespective of my "excitement" level. I also truly admire that you don't treat your audience as morons and more as equals, that's extremely refreshing as well. (PS: I'm the daughter of an aerospace engineer/PhD in mechanical engineering thus my excitement over your turbojet project. My dad and I used to build them when I was younger to power Go Carts and the like. We also made a pulse jet engine or two and other such nerdy pursuits. So your turbojet project though different in application from ours, is a trip down memory lane for me anyway). Keep up the fantastic work!
A very amazing clarification for myself. Thank you. I will work on my patients for more info. I really could have used this video back in January. Then again, afterwards it is always gratifying to know you learned from your own R an D. To have you confirm everything, makes it that much sweeter.
I like TECs and I like your plan, but did you originally want a low power fridge or a super small one? Just a chest freezer, with a refrigerator's thermostat swapped in, offers a lot of space and it's very energy efficient. That's the route I went years ago - chest freezer to chest fridge conversion.
I experimented with TEC 20 years ago (From MECI if anyone remembers) and found the same inefficiencies from stacking. Also, they are much better heaters than coolers. Create 46w heat vs 18w cooling. Great video as always.
I think another way you could go about stacking TECs is to run them water cooled in series, with two separate loops. The PECs themselves are only touching two water coolingheat exchangers. The chiller water loop and cooling water loops run in a cross flow configuration to minimize delta T for each one. The chilled water return goes into TEC 1 and then TEC 2 and then TEC 3 where it becomes supply and goes to the conditioned space. The cooling water return goes into TEC 3 first and then 2 and then 1 where it becomes supply to the cooling radiator. Now each TEC is running roughly the same delta T and the same wattage just different temperatures. The only disadvantage is this requires a lot of hose and fittings.
I was just working on a cooling system in lab using TECs and CPU Fans and I was wondering whether using a single TEC or multiple stacked together gives me better efficiency. This video really offered me plenty of insight! Great video!
Thanks for this. I know this is now an old video but i've been trying to find info on cooling a volume of air inside a box (camera inside it) with TEC's and this series (especially this video) is so useful in understanding what im trying to figure out to get this done effectively
Thanks a lot! 👍👍 With amazing content like this, why does anyone need a subscription TV service? Instead, it's a better idea to support great channels like Tech Ingredients.
These TEC elements typically have a maximum COP when operating around 2V with a dT of 10K, however, you need a lot of them at such low voltages to get the job done! Their COP also increases a lot with increasing T(hot), ceteris paribus.
I tried putting TECs in a stack as you showed here myself some time ago. In my test the last TEC heated up instead of cooling. I also put the 2nd and 3rd element in series across a PSU. My conclusion was that at a minimum I would have to adjust each TEC with a separate PSU to have a chance of it cooling down at all. Maybe I was feeding it too much voltage though.
The setup in the video works well, but for each type of TEC there is an optimal voltage. Use a variable voltage power supply and dial up the voltage slowly (over many minutes) untill the temperature fails to drop any further.
Sweet jeezeus, I'm so happy I found this video! I started playing around with peltier modules recently with a complete simpleton's understanding since I put zero due diligence into *first* educating myself, only to presented with what are basically engineering PhD dissertations as far as figuring out how to use these gizmos.... First youtube video I've found that's doing hardcore, ridiculously over-my-head things with them & also giving advanced practical advice from a highly informed standpoint. Thank you!
Ah yes. The energy needed to move the heat is rejected off the hot side along with the heat you are moving. That is a good thing to remember. It then leaves a heat "well" or "depression" for heat to flow into through one way or another. I love your presentation on a fascinating subject.
It is said that only those who can explain the apparently complex in simple terms actually understand what they are talking about. This guy is one of the few (not very many) on UA-cam who ACTUALLY understand what they are presenting to us. Would that there was more material of this quality. No fuss, no messing about, just clarity and explanation of whatever he is doing this time.
Thanks! You are right. In order to present these videos I do a fair bit of research and in doing so discover how much I really don't know about a topic.
@@TechIngredients Thanks for your reply. As a, now retired, 'generalist' engineer, mainly small scale systems and their controls, I have long held that the more I learn the more I find how much I don't know. Again my thanks, especially for this video, I have been interested in TEC's for a long time and - Suddenly - I actually understand them a bit more. Please, keep up this output - we need it! What I wouldn't give for a workshop like yours!!!
If it’s that cold outside, I bet the humidity in that shop is extremely low ...I mean he said that cold tubing is perfectly dry. Here in South Central Texas, hell, you’d have to have a collection pan under that tube because it would drip constantly, and you wouldn’t need to atomize it, there would be enough of it that you could have a cold-water bath to run your return glycol tube through, probably even through a heat exchanger immersed in the accumulated condensation. Sometimes I wonder if the condenser core in my window unit would be better off buried in the cold mud swamp that exists under it almost year-round than it is just sitting there having 105 F. air blown through it. I think the concept of using a water evaporation based system to cool the the evaporation stage of a refrigerant based AC system needs to be looked at again. The idea of just dumping what at least starts out as cold distilled water onto the ground like a waste product just can’t be right ...we’re missing something somewhere...
I found 20 of those TEC12706 parts for cheap a long time ago. I've been playing with them on occasion but the new info where you reduce the current across the 2 extra units when cascading them will kill some time while the springtime snowstorm wraps up. Thanks!
Love it! This is off-topic, since your want to cool with "TECs" but have you heared of the "Schukey-Motor". It is a thermaldynamic machine that can also be used as a cooling device / heatpump.
This is very helpful. I am planning a cloud chamber project, and I want to build one with a larger, top-down viewing area approximately 8 inches square. Ideally, I'd like to consistently get the cold plate below -30 C in a + 22-24C room, and have it operational for at least 30 minutes at a time.
Thank yo very much...I tried it and gave me a good result better than before..but I used 10 vdc instead of 12 v and the two modules aboce in series connection then parallel with the bottom one...the bottom I used TEC1-12710 and the upper two TEC1-12706 and got very nice result.
I have seen some 5 and 6 stage TEC units made for cooling missile guidance sensors and FTIR detectors. To get VERY cold what you need to do is stack them like a pyramid. A big high element count one on the bottom, heat spreader in between, a 3/4th element count one on top, and repeat as desired. You can get to about -140 to -180 deg C. The floor is because of the heat generated by the devices ❤
That process becomes extremely inefficient because the loss at each stage multiplies. A differential of 140 degrees is possible, but remember that the "hot" side isn't at zero degrees centigrade.
Ok, so with lower voltages the TEC units can transport more thermal energy with a lower temperature difference? If these TEC units get extremely cold, like -162C, will the resistance and Amperage used increase? It seems like you might have been suggesting that if the TEC units were cooled by liquid nitrogen, that they would not become colder than the liquid nitrogen. Is that true? Are these graphs available online for different models of TEC units, or did you have to test them, or use equations to generate the graphs? Thanks for your videos, they are very insightful. I appreciate the level of detail and speech. Are you a University professor or a researcher? I have been secluded so my speech doesn't seem to be what it use to be. I hear that more social interaction helps with speech.
Your video editing skills are getting better, but please don't put music over the top of the narrative. This has rapidly become my most favorite UA-cam channel!
@@MindlessSuccess Deer are a bit skittish, moose are much easier to catch. It's the stomping, bleading, screaming and running that's make good stories for the sauna...
Potentially, yes. But, given the same driving voltage, you need to apply the performance graphs I presented in the video to determine the optimal capacities for the pair.
Always wanted to know what happens if one cascades TEC's. Then ended up reading up on CO2 in ultra low temp refrigeration, minor issue with the triple point and the ice blocks pipes. Fascinating.
We might. I've thought about this and I think the most challenging part would be an easy, inexpensive way to bore the holes. I like this better than digging up the yard and there are suprisingly few videos about practical and effective methods.
@@TechIngredients I think you don't need to solve every aspect of it. Just making a DIY heatpump as a proof of concept would be enough, and let the problem of the drilling for another day.
One sees the connection between evaporation removal of high frequencies resonances in gases and the hotcold Junction equivalent in this demonstration video, that led to laser cooling of Black-body Singularity-> Bose-Einsteinian Condensation achievement. Multi-stage Energy (spin
I love this idea and I think it might work. A sound wave in gases (liquids) must heat and cool certain zones (low and high pressure distributed along the length). If this is done in a cascade (next line from the top), then low and high temperatures can be achieved. That is, it is possible to make an air conditioner or heater without moving parts. You just need to move the temperature gradient from certain zones and transfer them to the next. This is difficult, since there are no devices that can be bought on aliexpress and tried this principle quickly, to make a video.
I have done a 8 TEC (a square of 4 stacks made of 2 TEC) cooling a 64 cm² aluminium plate at -52 °C for a cloud chamber tanks to this video so thanks !
How did you make such nice, colorful graphs with just a pencil? You're a robot, a left handed robot, I knew it!! There was a brief moment when you thought your mic was off and you were speaking in 1's and 0's! Replicant or not, you're great and I'm hooked on your channel!
Thats true, I did also home testing and is not working with stacking them together. the next stage gets hotter, and the next also, that all peltier modules are to weak to cool each other.
A lot of people overclocking CPU's used to stack tecs..... I guess it worked or they would not have done it, but i guess to those people electrical efficiency is not a concern its just brute power
Computer power supplies typically output at 12V, 5V, and 3.3V. So you get pretty good results with stacked peltier/TEC using those different voltages. Use what you got...
you and Jitsen Chang have failed to realize is that the man said they could be stacked for lower temperatures. So your "guessing" 'it worked or they would not have done it..' seems to indicate that you didn't catch that fact in the video. Did you watch all of it or not?
@@ChangJitsen you do need to pay attention to wattage. You seem to have failed to realize the fact that the man said you could get a greater temperature change by stacking. That temp change, or delta T, is achieved at lower efficiency but he said that it does indeed net a greater temperature differential.
Lovely setup. What kind of computer fans are you using? With the fluid dynamic type, over extended periods the bearings will drain of the oil if they're used horizontally like you have them configured there, and sieze. Some manufacturers get around this with grooves in the bearings, so it could be just fine.
hi, interested in, what happens, after the tecs sucked out the heat from the chamber/food. you just shot it down, on/off operation, or switch to lower ampers to maintain "heat-leakeage" across the insulátion boards? edit: i see, when the the delta t goes down to the point , where the backflow heat wattage through the insulation becomes equal to the remove capacity of the TEC, then the inside temp cannot go lower. so by this you keep running the TEC, the cooler's low temp will be "maintained" only. interested if you replace the aluminium square blocks for ammonia or acetone or methanol vapor heat pipe (flat stripe shape) aother thing, if you can reduce further heat conduction by adding more insulation boards? its okay, have a 2 inch over the counter thickness, but can stack as many boards to increase kappa value? or insulation has another tricky feature? can not push thickness to "infinity"?
This is an honorable quest. The ability to extend the usable lifespan of food by electromechanical means is an earmark of the Modern Age. Everyone takes it for granted until the power goes out for a week. Because it's easier to pass thermal energy to a dense cool sink than a warmer sparse sink, pairing any cooling technology with a geothermal heat exchange mechanism will usually improve the cooling technology's efficiency. I use one ground loop to cool several PCs, an inverter, and a chest freezer. As soon as I find a window air conditioner or refrigerator that's "broken", I'll turn it into a geothermal heat pump for my workshop, withdraw some thermal energy from that heat bank I created.
Something I've been curious about your usage during cold months: is it actually more energy efficient to exhaust the waste heat outside, or inside? Exhausting heat outside during the winter is preventing waste heat from helping heat your house and actively providing a leak path for heat to leave the house through the fridge. considering how inefficient TEC coolers are, I'm really not sure which way the scales tip
One way to evaluate this is cost. The heat from the TEC is very expensive. By decreasing the temperature of the hot side of the TEC you will decrease the electrical use toward zero. Even with a compressor based refrigerator, heating with the electrically powered compressor is much more expensive than gas or oil as an energy source.
@@TechIngredients Thanks for the response! It sounds like you're using the outside air to do most of the cooling work, and the TEC to provide a little extra oomph if necessary. Now you're making me want to pull out my thermo text book and estimate how much more efficient it is
Great content. I really appreciate the thorough scientific content that you provide. I am starting to try to design a cold trap for a freeze dryer. I have a few TEC's that I thought about utilizing inside of a chest freezer to achieve the required -40C. have you tried any like this before? Do you think that it might be achievable?
wish i could be a part of your team. you make the most informative videos period..... the gas turbine, the diy speakers with celing tiles...rockets, ss cooling.. what dont you guys do???? just wish you uploaded more often. (yes, i know your videos take a long time to make and are expensive). lastly, i recently saw an episode on high power lasers and about fell out of my chair when you said "eat your heart out styropyro". btw, i have the tube for "Building a fire death machine using soviet military tech".. cannot wait to get time to build it. perhaps you have a more in depth theory of operation?????
You'd be a good person to build a"Cloud Chamber" if it was of interest of you. It would be an original video if you managed to do it with large surface area of stacked peltiers. It'd make good use of your cooling loop as well.
I'm confused about back wall in you last version of refrigerator. First goes back wall. then 12 thick aluminium blocks which are screwed to back wall. and these 12 blocks are built into polystyrene foam. then go 12 TEC and then 12 water blocks. Is this correct sequence? Or i something didnt understand?
Is there a use for this in automotives? Place some on a water to air CAC (charged air cooler), and reduce inlet temp/ increase oxygen density? Got a fair amount of 'free' current from a decent alternator..... Or even just stick them to the intake plenum of a V6/8/...
The delta T you demonstrate is 53.5. I just did this with a single TEC1-12708. I don't think stacking these things does anything because the bottom unit can only ever move a max Q
It does make a difference and that is why there are commercial units fabricated as permanently mounted, stacked assemblies. You can achieve a relatively large delta T with a single module, but the heat flow becomes miniscule. Multi stage units can exceed a 100-degree delta T.
My thought isn't using the Tecs in series but rather to use the primary one to cool and then the stacked ones to convert the extracted heat back into electricity. Would that not recover energy and improve overall efficiency?
No. That design will, at the same time, significantly decrease the efficiency of the primary TEC by restricting its cooling on its "hot" side. The result would be a lowering of the overall efficiency.
the true value of UA-cam right here...
Amazing content I recommended your channel to my dad and he watched all your videos in 5 days
Your dad sounds cool. ;)
haha, yes! that's awesome
@@thatguyalex2835 ⚠ God has said in the Quran:
🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 )
🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 )
🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 )
🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 )
🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 )
⚠ Quran
My dad would have loved this channel. I do too.
@@thatguyalex2835⚠️ God has said in the Quran:
🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 )
🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 )
🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 )
🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 )
🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 )
⚠️ Quran
It’s great to see someone that goes through the calculations and explains the graphs to show the “why and how” instead of just showing it working or not. Thumbs up for the presentation of materials!
Thanks!
-King of Random-
God of Random
He is dead now, r.i.p
These guys are an intellectual oasis in the sometimes abysmal (king of random) world of UA-cam. Thanks for the content.
And, thank you for the compliment!
I would still say The King of Random was fun to watch, although of course much less serious
Most important of all, he showed those graphs. I needed someone to explain it. It seems pretty simple now but it is nice to have someone present it. I would like to achieve really low temps with TEC. Maybe I will use CPU heatsinks with heat pipes to pump away the heat.
Excellent video! This channel + Applied Science = mind blowing.
Oh i'd LOVE to see them collaborate once! Would be a total geek-out!
Or at least the conversations between them would be more than interesting/entertaining :)
I can't believe it's been 5 years. Incredibly valid content at the moment.
I was enjoying the video then saw the -56 degrees C temperature - holy moly! nice work!
An added benefit of it is snowy outside, let us see the main use of this device in summer.
@@wobblysauce if its snowing, jist put food outside😂
Recently discovered your channel and bench watched every video. Is all this research and experimentation just for "fun"? If so you're living the dream!
I love this channel! While I admit your TEC project is less exciting to me personally than your turbojet project (sorry), I absolutely love the way you present and approach each project you're working doing. That presentation and the explanation gets me interested in what's going on and keeps me interest irrespective of my "excitement" level. I also truly admire that you don't treat your audience as morons and more as equals, that's extremely refreshing as well. (PS: I'm the daughter of an aerospace engineer/PhD in mechanical engineering thus my excitement over your turbojet project. My dad and I used to build them when I was younger to power Go Carts and the like. We also made a pulse jet engine or two and other such nerdy pursuits. So your turbojet project though different in application from ours, is a trip down memory lane for me anyway). Keep up the fantastic work!
2:50 ackshually, it's not a 12-710, it's more of a 127-10 (127 elements, 10A rated current)
A very amazing clarification for myself. Thank you. I will work on my patients for more info. I really could have used this video back in January. Then again, afterwards it is always gratifying to know you learned from your own R an D. To have you confirm everything, makes it that much sweeter.
I love all these videos about TECs and mini fridges/freezers. I'm planning on rebuilding my mini fridge to use 9 TECs instead of 1
I like TECs and I like your plan, but did you originally want a low power fridge or a super small one? Just a chest freezer, with a refrigerator's thermostat swapped in, offers a lot of space and it's very energy efficient. That's the route I went years ago - chest freezer to chest fridge conversion.
Always good to watch a Tech Ingredients video :)
I experimented with TEC 20 years ago (From MECI if anyone remembers) and found the same inefficiencies from stacking. Also, they are much better heaters than coolers. Create 46w heat vs 18w cooling. Great video as always.
I think another way you could go about stacking TECs is to run them water cooled in series, with two separate loops. The PECs themselves are only touching two water coolingheat exchangers. The chiller water loop and cooling water loops run in a cross flow configuration to minimize delta T for each one. The chilled water return goes into TEC 1 and then TEC 2 and then TEC 3 where it becomes supply and goes to the conditioned space. The cooling water return goes into TEC 3 first and then 2 and then 1 where it becomes supply to the cooling radiator. Now each TEC is running roughly the same delta T and the same wattage just different temperatures. The only disadvantage is this requires a lot of hose and fittings.
Very informative and no theatrics or bs, only technological innovation. wow!
The music is so chill and at the perfect volume so we can understand everything. Very nice job and attention to detail.
Thank you!
I was just working on a cooling system in lab using TECs and CPU Fans and I was wondering whether using a single TEC or multiple stacked together gives me better efficiency. This video really offered me plenty of insight! Great video!
so which is best
Thanks for this. I know this is now an old video but i've been trying to find info on cooling a volume of air inside a box (camera inside it) with TEC's and this series (especially this video) is so useful in understanding what im trying to figure out to get this done effectively
Thanks a lot! 👍👍
With amazing content like this, why does anyone need a subscription TV service?
Instead, it's a better idea to support great channels like Tech Ingredients.
I absolutely agree.
These TEC elements typically have a maximum COP when operating around 2V with a dT of 10K, however, you need a lot of them at such low voltages to get the job done! Their COP also increases a lot with increasing T(hot), ceteris paribus.
Correct.
I tried putting TECs in a stack as you showed here myself some time ago.
In my test the last TEC heated up instead of cooling. I also put the 2nd and 3rd element in series across a PSU.
My conclusion was that at a minimum I would have to adjust each TEC with a separate PSU to have a chance of it cooling down at all.
Maybe I was feeding it too much voltage though.
The setup in the video works well, but for each type of TEC there is an optimal voltage. Use a variable voltage power supply and dial up the voltage slowly (over many minutes) untill the temperature fails to drop any further.
By far one of the best channels on the net.
this is my new favorite youtube channel
All your videos related to TEC is really amazing and I thought a lot from your ! Thanks a lot Sir!
Sweet jeezeus, I'm so happy I found this video! I started playing around with peltier modules recently with a complete simpleton's understanding since I put zero due diligence into *first* educating myself, only to presented with what are basically engineering PhD dissertations as far as figuring out how to use these gizmos.... First youtube video I've found that's doing hardcore, ridiculously over-my-head things with them & also giving advanced practical advice from a highly informed standpoint. Thank you!
Take a look at our video on the solid state mini fridge. There I go into a pretty good review of the principle behind the operation of these devices.
@@TechIngredients Most excellent, thank you for the tip. Happily subscribing!
It is always a treat for the mind when a new Tech Ingredients episode comes out.
I would love to be able to explain concepts with the clarity that you have in your videos. Excellent and inspiring!
Very good explanation. Thank you!
Do be careful using glycol with PC cooling parts as they often contain PVC that will react with the glycol.
Ahh, the inefficiency builds in series...of course. This is something I've always wanted to put together so thanks for the demonstration!
Sure!
Ah yes. The energy needed to move the heat is rejected off the hot side along with the heat you are moving. That is a good thing to remember. It then leaves a heat "well" or "depression" for heat to flow into through one way or another.
I love your presentation on a fascinating subject.
This is a much more interesting video than the first series of peltier coolers. The first set was basic. Now we start getting into the good stuff.
Awesome videos. You guys are one of the only channels that goes so in depth with these peltier modules. loving the videos!
Thanks!
It is said that only those who can explain the apparently complex in simple terms actually understand what they are talking about. This guy is one of the few (not very many) on UA-cam who ACTUALLY understand what they are presenting to us. Would that there was more material of this quality. No fuss, no messing about, just clarity and explanation of whatever he is doing this time.
Thanks!
You are right. In order to present these videos I do a fair bit of research and in doing so discover how much I really don't know about a topic.
@@TechIngredients Thanks for your reply. As a, now retired, 'generalist' engineer, mainly small scale systems and their controls, I have long held that the more I learn the more I find how much I don't know. Again my thanks, especially for this video, I have been interested in TEC's for a long time and - Suddenly - I actually understand them a bit more. Please, keep up this output - we need it! What I wouldn't give for a workshop like yours!!!
Brilliant thank you - the stacked tec’s was just what I was looking for - couldn’t find info on doing this anywhere else - I’ve liked and subscribed 👍
Next step: capture any condensate, pump to the hot side, and atomise for further cooling (and to reduce the temp differential in the TEC)
The condensate would be hotter than the cold water obviously...
Jake Garrett
If it’s that cold outside, I bet the humidity in that shop is extremely low ...I mean he said that cold tubing is perfectly dry. Here in South Central Texas, hell, you’d have to have a collection pan under that tube because it would drip constantly, and you wouldn’t need to atomize it, there would be enough of it that you could have a cold-water bath to run your return glycol tube through, probably even through a heat exchanger immersed in the accumulated condensation. Sometimes I wonder if the condenser core in my window unit would be better off buried in the cold mud swamp that exists under it almost year-round than it is just sitting there having 105 F. air blown through it. I think the concept of using a water evaporation based system to cool the the evaporation stage of a refrigerant based AC system needs to be looked at again. The idea of just dumping what at least starts out as cold distilled water onto the ground like a waste product just can’t be right ...we’re missing something somewhere...
Pump the atomized condensate outside, lowering the indoor humidity.
This is high quality content and very interesting stuff! Thank you!
I found 20 of those TEC12706 parts for cheap a long time ago. I've been playing with them on occasion but the new info where you reduce the current across the 2 extra units when cascading them will kill some time while the springtime snowstorm wraps up. Thanks!
Always a pleasure to observe your presentations! Very insightful!
We apparently have many random interests in common. Love the content. Thank you!
Love it! This is off-topic, since your want to cool with "TECs" but have you heared of the "Schukey-Motor". It is a thermaldynamic machine that can also be used as a cooling device / heatpump.
BTW: Sorry for my typos, my English isn't the best
CrashPilot1000
Do you mean something like this?
www.soundenergy.nl/theac-25/
Heard of them on Dutch radio.
Stop filling my head with all this glorious knowledge.
This is very helpful. I am planning a cloud chamber project, and I want to build one with a larger, top-down viewing area approximately 8 inches square. Ideally, I'd like to consistently get the cold plate below -30 C in a + 22-24C room, and have it operational for at least 30 minutes at a time.
This is golden, thank you for the maths! Your presentation reminds me of a good lecture that gets me stoked on whatever you're talking about.
Thank yo very much...I tried it and gave me a good result better than before..but I used 10 vdc instead of 12 v and the two modules aboce in series connection then parallel with the bottom one...the bottom I used TEC1-12710 and the upper two TEC1-12706 and got very nice result.
I have seen some 5 and 6 stage TEC units made for cooling missile guidance sensors and FTIR detectors. To get VERY cold what you need to do is stack them like a pyramid. A big high element count one on the bottom, heat spreader in between, a 3/4th element count one on top, and repeat as desired. You can get to about -140 to -180 deg C. The floor is because of the heat generated by the devices ❤
That process becomes extremely inefficient because the loss at each stage multiplies. A differential of 140 degrees is possible, but remember that the "hot" side isn't at zero degrees centigrade.
Ben you should be promoted to Head of the Revision department at Wikipedia. Stunning details and insightful. Thanks.
Ok, so with lower voltages the TEC units can transport more thermal energy with a lower temperature difference?
If these TEC units get extremely cold, like -162C, will the resistance and Amperage used increase?
It seems like you might have been suggesting that if the TEC units were cooled by liquid nitrogen, that they would not become colder than the liquid nitrogen. Is that true?
Are these graphs available online for different models of TEC units, or did you have to test them, or use equations to generate the graphs?
Thanks for your videos, they are very insightful. I appreciate the level of detail and speech. Are you a University professor or a researcher? I have been secluded so my speech doesn't seem to be what it use to be. I hear that more social interaction helps with speech.
Your video editing skills are getting better, but please don't put music over the top of the narrative. This has rapidly become my most favorite UA-cam channel!
Thanks for the suggestion.
In Finland we just open the window for cold beer.
You mean deer?
@@MindlessSuccess Deer are a bit skittish, moose are much easier to catch. It's the stomping, bleading, screaming and running that's make good stories for the sauna...
@@blahorgaslisk7763 Hoot!
I am happy to see your video. That's a pleasant end of the Sunday for me...... :)
You can buy TEC modules with different junction numbers with the same form factor. Stacking these is a much better option?
Potentially, yes. But, given the same driving voltage, you need to apply the performance graphs I presented in the video to determine the optimal capacities for the pair.
Always wanted to know what happens if one cascades TEC's.
Then ended up reading up on CO2 in ultra low temp refrigeration, minor issue with the triple point and the ice blocks pipes.
Fascinating.
I think it's safe to say that you have the expertise to make a closed loop geothermal heat pump system. Would be nice for a future video :)
We might. I've thought about this and I think the most challenging part would be an easy, inexpensive way to bore the holes. I like this better than digging up the yard and there are suprisingly few videos about practical and effective methods.
@@TechIngredients I think you don't need to solve every aspect of it. Just making a DIY heatpump as a proof of concept would be enough, and let the problem of the drilling for another day.
Love your video's even if I do have trouble following all of the science. Good exercise for my brain.
Thanks for the detailed explanations.
One sees the connection between evaporation removal of high frequencies resonances in gases and the hotcold Junction equivalent in this demonstration video, that led to laser cooling of Black-body Singularity-> Bose-Einsteinian Condensation achievement.
Multi-stage Energy (spin
I love this idea and I think it might work. A sound wave in gases (liquids) must heat and cool certain zones (low and high pressure distributed along the length). If this is done in a cascade (next line from the top), then low and high temperatures can be achieved. That is, it is possible to make an air conditioner or heater without moving parts. You just need to move the temperature gradient from certain zones and transfer them to the next. This is difficult, since there are no devices that can be bought on aliexpress and tried this principle quickly, to make a video.
I have done a 8 TEC (a square of 4 stacks made of 2 TEC) cooling a 64 cm² aluminium plate at -52 °C for a cloud chamber tanks to this video so thanks !
How did you make such nice, colorful graphs with just a pencil? You're a robot, a left handed robot, I knew it!! There was a brief moment when you thought your mic was off and you were speaking in 1's and 0's! Replicant or not, you're great and I'm hooked on your channel!
Zuckerberg is the only synth I know of.
Thats true, I did also home testing and is not working with stacking them together. the next stage gets hotter, and the next also, that all peltier modules are to weak to cool each other.
Excellent and informative video - Thanks.
i'm recommending your channel also to a friend of mine! he will love this!! xx
Thank you!
great video, Dr. Perkins, thank you!
thanks man running the two in series on a three layer stack made a huge difference in performance im hoping thats the solution for my project.
Sure, good luck!
A lot of people overclocking CPU's used to stack tecs..... I guess it worked or they would not have done it, but i guess to those people electrical efficiency is not a concern its just brute power
Computer power supplies typically output at 12V, 5V, and 3.3V. So you get pretty good results with stacked peltier/TEC using those different voltages. Use what you got...
you and Jitsen Chang have failed to realize is that the man said they could be stacked for lower temperatures. So your "guessing" 'it worked or they would not have done it..' seems to indicate that you didn't catch that fact in the video. Did you watch all of it or not?
@@ChangJitsen you do need to pay attention to wattage. You seem to have failed to realize the fact that the man said you could get a greater temperature change by stacking. That temp change, or delta T, is achieved at lower efficiency but he said that it does indeed net a greater temperature differential.
@@williambarnes7642 What are you talking about? No one said it didn't work. Did you read the whole comment or not? Lol.
Hey there. Have you thought about making an episode on EO pumps? i've recently heard of them but the resources you can find online are lackluster.
Amazing content here. Thanks for being technically precise
Thanks!
Lovely setup. What kind of computer fans are you using? With the fluid dynamic type, over extended periods the bearings will drain of the oil if they're used horizontally like you have them configured there, and sieze. Some manufacturers get around this with grooves in the bearings, so it could be just fine.
I really want an in depth look into this
hi,
interested in, what happens, after the tecs sucked out the heat from the chamber/food.
you just shot it down, on/off operation, or switch to lower ampers to maintain "heat-leakeage" across the insulátion boards?
edit: i see, when the the delta t goes down to the point , where the backflow heat wattage through the insulation becomes equal to the remove capacity of the TEC, then the inside temp cannot go lower. so by this you keep running the TEC, the cooler's low temp will be "maintained" only.
interested if you replace the aluminium square blocks for ammonia or acetone or methanol vapor heat pipe (flat stripe shape)
aother thing, if you can reduce further heat conduction by adding more insulation boards?
its okay, have a 2 inch over the counter thickness, but can stack as many boards to increase kappa value? or insulation has another tricky feature? can not push thickness to "infinity"?
Awesome videos Im so glad I had found this channel!
I am too! Welcome.
Lovin' the Drip Mr. Tech Ingredients
What a nice trick!
What is the cooling capacity (Qc/W) of this setup? how many watts will it be able to pump let's say while staying at -50 celsius?
Only 3-4 watts.
That constantly open freezer door is tickling my OCD crazy, even though I know it's not on. -_-
This is an honorable quest. The ability to extend the usable lifespan of food by electromechanical means is an earmark of the Modern Age. Everyone takes it for granted until the power goes out for a week.
Because it's easier to pass thermal energy to a dense cool sink than a warmer sparse sink, pairing any cooling technology with a geothermal heat exchange mechanism will usually improve the cooling technology's efficiency. I use one ground loop to cool several PCs, an inverter, and a chest freezer. As soon as I find a window air conditioner or refrigerator that's "broken", I'll turn it into a geothermal heat pump for my workshop, withdraw some thermal energy from that heat bank I created.
Thanks!
That is a good idea.
Thanks for producing that content
I do hvac, was concerned for a little bit. Without compressors what will i do? Relieved it's less efficient or id be learning a new trade :)
Thanks for the awesome demo! To go to lower temperature, how about a tec with lower energy gap as you get to lower temperature?
They make these, but they're extremely expensive.
Something I've been curious about your usage during cold months: is it actually more energy efficient to exhaust the waste heat outside, or inside? Exhausting heat outside during the winter is preventing waste heat from helping heat your house and actively providing a leak path for heat to leave the house through the fridge. considering how inefficient TEC coolers are, I'm really not sure which way the scales tip
One way to evaluate this is cost. The heat from the TEC is very expensive. By decreasing the temperature of the hot side of the TEC you will decrease the electrical use toward zero. Even with a compressor based refrigerator, heating with the electrically powered compressor is much more expensive than gas or oil as an energy source.
@@TechIngredients Thanks for the response! It sounds like you're using the outside air to do most of the cooling work, and the TEC to provide a little extra oomph if necessary. Now you're making me want to pull out my thermo text book and estimate how much more efficient it is
have you thought about doing a small house and incorporating some of these technologies?
Great content. I really appreciate the thorough scientific content that you provide. I am starting to try to design a cold trap for a freeze dryer. I have a few TEC's that I thought about utilizing inside of a chest freezer to achieve the required -40C. have you tried any like this before? Do you think that it might be achievable?
I'd love to hear how that worked out.
I was waiting for the numbers, watts (maybe btu or similar) as promised in the first video. I hope you make a follow up on that.
The Mr. Rodgers of science and engineering 👍
wish i could be a part of your team. you make the most informative videos period..... the gas turbine, the diy speakers with celing tiles...rockets, ss cooling.. what dont you guys do???? just wish you uploaded more often. (yes, i know your videos take a long time to make and are expensive). lastly, i recently saw an episode on high power lasers and about fell out of my chair when you said "eat your heart out styropyro". btw, i have the tube for "Building a fire death machine using soviet military tech".. cannot wait to get time to build it. perhaps you have a more in depth theory of operation?????
When is the freeze dryer video coming out ? Keep up the good work !
Thanks!
The desiccant air conditioner will be posted in about a month.
@@TechIngredients so no freeze dryer ? :(
You'd be a good person to build a"Cloud Chamber" if it was of interest of you. It would be an original video if you managed to do it with large surface area of stacked peltiers. It'd make good use of your cooling loop as well.
What about using water evaporation to increase heat dispersion?
I'm confused about back wall in you last version of refrigerator. First goes back wall. then 12 thick aluminium blocks which are screwed to back wall. and these 12 blocks are built into polystyrene foam. then go 12 TEC and then 12 water blocks. Is this correct sequence? Or i something didnt understand?
That's right.
would it work theoretically to coat a house in peltiers walls, ceiling, floor and get some energy from heat getting in and out :) ?
Good job, Steve
Thanks, Mr Gates.☺
Excellent explanation as usual
Thanks!
Could you share the connection schematic for TECs with Power Supply?
Sid: "you know and I know, that I have HALF the brain that you do."
The black turtleneck looks nice on camera.
Great. Thanks a lot. Ive got a plenty of practical info!
Would adding a tlc device to a cpu cooler increase the cooling efficiency of the cooler? would it improve it's performance in a computer?
Awesome, i'm now inspired to make one TEC system that can drop to -50°C as a self-challenge
Go for it!
Is there a use for this in automotives? Place some on a water to air CAC (charged air cooler), and reduce inlet temp/ increase oxygen density?
Got a fair amount of 'free' current from a decent alternator.....
Or even just stick them to the intake plenum of a V6/8/...
The delta T you demonstrate is 53.5. I just did this with a single TEC1-12708. I don't think stacking these things does anything because the bottom unit can only ever move a max Q
It does make a difference and that is why there are commercial units fabricated as permanently mounted, stacked assemblies. You can achieve a relatively large delta T with a single module, but the heat flow becomes miniscule. Multi stage units can exceed a 100-degree delta T.
My thought isn't using the Tecs in series but rather to use the primary one to cool and then the stacked ones to convert the extracted heat back into electricity. Would that not recover energy and improve overall efficiency?
No.
That design will, at the same time, significantly decrease the efficiency of the primary TEC by restricting its cooling on its "hot" side. The result would be a lowering of the overall efficiency.