Hades was the gift that kept on giving. Post ShB completely re contextualized the "remember us" smile. He wasn't just smiling to a respected enemy. He was bidding farewell to an old friend.
@@althelor also an old new friend. Hades probably kicked himself realizing that he got roped into Azem’s whacky wahoo adventures not only once, but twice over.
I think endwalker hades is still pretty great to show the "unbroken" version of him. He pretty much leads the charge in trying to stop the future events despite saying that he doesn't believe it and he has so much energy to do what he believes is right. It's great
Yeah I thought it was pretty strange to brush off Hades in EW as "nonsense" with just a "you know why it's bad". If we didn't get more Hades after ShB I wouldn't mind since I think that ending was perfect. I do think however that his part in EW was completely fine.
@@qAxLp I think he was referring to the time travel in general was still fine imo. Time travel has a tendency to get confusing and bad but Ew did it pretty well and kept it mostly sane
@@Monstergirl-ologist my only grievance with the time travel we did was it contradicted how it worked in shb where Graha created an alternate timeline as the tales series showed us his original timeline still existed. But it could be said what we did ultimately kept the chain of events the same not creating an another alternate timeline. As a whole I’m fine with what they did let’s just hope we never use it again
@@inuclearpickle8628 G'raha didn't create an alternate timeline tho. He slid in a parallel timeline instead and travelled back to its past. This was evidenced by that cutscene where future G'raha was reading Count Fortemp's book where he says events that occured in a different order. G'raha and Biggs III didn't know so they thought they were erasing that timeline's present using G'raha's time travel. Endwalker time travel follows that of Alexander storyline instead.
@@darkedge221 honestly the more I think about your explanation the harder it is for me to even wrap my brain around time travel in Ffxiv at this point I don’t even wanna question it anymore I really hope they don’t use ever again this stuff is too damn confusing
I believe that Emet is a deeply hurt man. When I saw Amaurot in the Tempest, my little Au Ra stood on a ledge which showed the Skyline of the city he wove from Aether. When I realized that he *made* a reflection of this city, built on memory, to walk on those streets he loved so much once again, to see reflections of his people once again, even though they were nothing but mere memories, I realized he manifested his pain with the tip of his fingers, weaving the aether and the force that gives life into that what he misses most: Home. If we look at it, the Unsundered lost everything. Their family, friends, their loved ones, lives, jobs, the mere ground they walked on, all gone. To endure this pain for over 9000 years, holding on onto hope and the deity they created in despair to bring back what they lost has left a mark on all of them. Lahabrea became dark and cynical, Elidibus was losing his memories - he didnt even remember who he promised to help, and Emet became depressed, homesick and ultimately, lonely. He has seen death in all its forms. Calamity of Lightening, people being swallowed by waves of electricity. Calamity of fire, people burning alive. Calamity of Earth, people being swallowed by the ravenous earthquake and crushed by boulders. Calamity of Light, warping all beings caught into the flood painfully into mindless monsters deprived of aether. The list goes on: War, pestilence, torture, murder, rape, violence. He has seen it all. Nobody stood out. And then, in this one era, there is this one little WOL person that managed to withstand and even fight back. Was this the clue he was hoping for? The glimmer of hope that life can persist as it is? The complexity of this character is unmatched and it is one of the reasons that Shadowbringers is still my favorite expansion of the entire game.
The simple thing to see it, he's litterally bearing the weight of the burden on his shoulders, until we kill him and stand straight finally. EW allowed us to see normal Emet-selch, before being destroyed by the loss of his friends, it was particularly beautiful for me. Especially the fact that for him, becoming so disrespectful of life was against his nature at the time. I think that, despite missing his life before, he spent his life trying to find the sundered worthy. I wonder if he tried to find Azem's shards on every world to see if his quest was finally over, continuing with the rejoining when he find us lacking ...
Hades carried the crystal of Azem themselves... probably with the intention of giving it to them, restoring their memories... asking for their help, their forgiveness.
@@ChainedFei Sadly... Azem's crystal does not have Azem's memories, since Azem had already left the convocation by then, and wasn't there for the crystal to scan/record their memories. All it contains is the signature spell that Azem made, recreated by Emet Selch to honor their memory. The 'Duty Finder' spell.
@@AzraelMight There's never any indication that it holds anything inside other than Azem's signature spell that Emet recreated for it. if it had emet's memories we should have already synchronized with the gem and gained those memories by now, like how every other one of those crystals (like job crystals) operated. iirc Shade Hythlodaeus implied as much that it only has a tribute/rememberance to azem when they gave it to us, but no memories.
I think the reason Emet-Selch is so fondly remembered is a combination of factors. Partly his generally quirky nature, partly the reveal that he's fond of empire-building(and damn good at it, too), but primarily that he's the first Ascian we meet that actually feels like a real person, contrasting moustache-twirling supervillain Lahabrea and stoic, mission-minded Elidibus.
Yoshida actually explained the whole thing with Emet Selch in a radio mog station broadcast (around the 30:00 - 35:00 minute mark) where they were talking EW spoilers; a lot of people thought that Emet was brought back in EW because of fan service but it was planned since ShB. Elpis Emet is the "pure" Emet whereas after experiencing the Final Days, tried to love the new people, or rather, only fragments of the people he loved, of the sundered world and ended up being betrayed many times resulted in the ShB Emet. The same reason why Elidibus was only absorbed in 5.3 and his aether was not destroyed is because the writers needed a way for us to get to Elpis and Elidibus was the one who was given that role long before EW released. P.S. Completely irrelevant to the text above, the reason why Krile is not in the EW art with all of the scions is because Yoshida didn't notice she was missing in his sketch when ordering the artwork and when he noticed that she was missing, it was to late. xD
To be fair, although we only really meet Emet in person in ShB, you are vicariously interacting with him through a lot of the story, be it the Garleans, Allagans other Ascians, by the time we meet him and know what he did gives us a lot to work with from the start. It was just the first time we really saw the man behind the curtain. The Jailer was a outright asspull at the 11th hour
I find it really interesting that Hades is a perfect parallel to G'raha Tia : Both are soft boys turned cloaked and stoic immortal beings, both recreate the image of their home in a world that feels foreign to them (the Amaurote illusion and the Garlemald empire on one side and Cristarium on the other, the latter being a recreation of Sharlayan from Raha's memories), and both keep struggling across generations - and slowly lose themselves in the process - to bring back the time where their beloved friend and hero was alive (that hero being the same person in both cases, although the WoL is like 8-9/14ths of Azem). You can really tell that behind the scheming and attitude, Hades is just a sad and lonely guy that's desperate and willing to sacrifice anything just to see his hero again, and I think that if G'raha Tia had gone on to live as the Crystal Exarch without success for as long as Hades has been Emet-Selch, he would've turned to despair as well.
My theory is the Source echoes are stronger when they manifest because we're 8/14 now, 1 source and 7 rejoinings. Though, because they borked the Void, we'd only ever be 13/14 complete afaik? I'm surprised they didn't give up then, those souls were like... Lost lost, weren't they?
@@nisahurbina4553 Some recent fan theories I've seen go around lately is that, with Golbez all but confirmed to be a major player from The Void in 6.X, it's likely the shard of Azem from there was Cecil and either Cecil will appear in a future patch or the Voidsent that Zenos formed a pact with was Cecil, the supposed appearance of Voidsent-Possessed Zenos at the end of 6.1 might be Cecil using Zenos' corpse to try and fix things in The Thirteenth. I honestly have doubts of Cecil being present in any way (even if EndWalker had a bunch of FF4 references and inspirations) and it might just be Golbez as the 6.X character. Maybe his Four Fiends as those elementals we saw him speak to, but I doubt there'll be a Cecil and whatever has Zenos' corpse (if it even is Zenos' corpse) is a different character not related to Azem.
@@nisahurbina4553 we are 9/14ths actually. Since we went through 7 rejoinings, and then rejoined with ardbert on our own. Which I find interesting as it seems that Emmet-selch had no idea such a thing was even possible, meaning that not only did we thwart him, we showed him in one fell swoop that all his genocides were *not justified* because there was another, much more humane way than what he had dedicated his life to doing.
@@althelor Rejoining with Ardbert and that single flash of (probably) Azem prior to the Hades fight was such a complete dab on the violent rejoining plan that Emet-Selch actually loses his composure for a second. Gra'ha unleashing the Duty Finger shortly afterwards, especially considering Azem's soul crystal, is like 90% of the reason he loses his complete shit in the end before the final fight.
I feel like there was still some bad blood between Emet-Selch and Azem when Zodiark was summoned. Mostly in the fact that the title of "traitor" in Garlean is Latin for "traveler".
Considering the fact that the creation of the Garlean Empire was something he very recently did, it shows just how far gone Emet Selch had started to become. All those years of isolation and resentment to his best friend, years that could've been filled with joy and love and eventually embracing their death together started to become bitter
Just speculation, but one thing that might have dampened E-S's enthusiasm for rejoinings was the corruption of the 13th. That's one shard worth of souls permanently destroyed. His people could never be truly complete again. Zodiark could never be truly complete again. Even if every other shard was rejoined there's no guarantee that the people would be the same, or that Zodiark would have the power to fix everything again. More likely than not his entire quest was doomed, but he was compelled to keep at it anyway. Facing down another ten thousand years of committing mass murder with no reason to believe the reward he sought was still attainable. That would wear anyone down.
I took the situation with the 13th as something that Emet thought he could eventually learn to undo (whether or not he actually could, that he believed he could). Otherwise, why offhandedly mention it without saying something to the effect of "and thus our labors were doomed"? Also, given that he was willing to ally with a seven-times-rejoined Warrior of Light if they proved strong enough, I wonder if he might himself believe that somehow he would find a way to undo the 13th if he had the help of a cohort of several twelve-times-rejoined "lesser" Ascians (that they uplifted from normal soul fragments; i.e. Mitron, Loghrif, Igeyorhm, etc.)? Many things to speculate as to his motivations, and many threads to pull on for headcanons...
I think he wanted to use Graha knowledge over time travel for this purpose, to come back on the 13th before it was ruined. But that would probably mean they'd need to do it all over again since this was the first calamity...
hate on time travel all you want. Elpsis was great. as for Emet him self. or Hades rather. I'd never even considered part of him being so burnt out and done with the Rejoinings was his regular killing of Azem. It makes sense now that it's brought up, as I recall a lot of his lines on 'worth Stuarts of the star' being more focused on 'what he lost' in terms of his friends.
Oh yeah Elpis was absolutely beautiful! And we learned so much about the Ancient's civilization that it was mind blowing! What I hate are the continuity errors and paradoxes I have to write my scripts around now....
@@SynodicScribe what paradoxes? as I'm pretty sure everyone just shrugged us off as some weird familiar. I mean I KNOW there's a rant about the Echo/Blessing of Light coming, but I'm legit drawing a blank on what 'we left behind' that should have changed something but didn't, or is this the whole thing with Venat only becoming Hydaelyn because we went back and warned her?
@@Kitsune10060 I've already ranted about how much they screwed up the Echo/Blessing of Light, I ain't gonna beat that dead horse. But seeing as the narrative issues Endwalker's time travel created isn't obvious, I'll likely leave that alone too. Just let people's head cannon run wild on that one. haha
“Stuarts of the star”? You mean what Albsterz calls chocobos when he plays FF games? He likes using that word a lot. That’s not a bad thing I guess. Being a chocobo.
My hope is that at some point in FFXIV, no matter in which expansion, we are able to see Emet, Hyth and Azem again. Together, as Emet wanted. Or at least being able to see them in a more happy context.
The writers deserve awards above those of mere gaming awards for this story. Emet is flawed, complex, and beautiful. Doesn't get much more relatable than that.
His last words brought me to tears. He's a horrible person, but you saw what drove him to such horrors. Remember... Remember us... Remember that we lived. He did not want the Ascians, his friends, to be forgotten. They will not be. They created such devastation and horror. They will never be forgiven. But it is good to understand him, at the very least, a little better.
I'd never thought about the fact that he may have realised he was killing a friend over and over. Though really you have to wonder if a person sundered and a person reincarnated are really even equivalent. There was a sundered Azem long ago but they died and were reincarnated . A succession of people that shared their soul were born from it fall making their own memories and each becoming their own person. A person is as much their memories as they are their soul - perhaps more so. This means that even if Emet really was driven by the desire to reunite with one of his closest friends it was a hope that was doomed to fail from the start , the warrior of light is not Azem - they're a new person writing a new story and borrowing the same soul Azem once borrowed themselves to do so. No matter how many rejoicings that soul has or will go through Azem will never be brought back. At best assuming he planned to use the Azem crystal to give Azems soul to their current reincarnation they'd get a new person that can also remember Azem's life and there is no telling how that person could take this, best case scenario, by the time they're done rejoining all the worlds you might get a person similar enough to the person azem once was that hasn't suffered so much that they develop any major issues, your middle ground might be someone like our own warriors of light who clearly have baggage but seem at least better at keeping afloat than someone like ardbert who coincidentally was ripped from the same cloth as well and we had better hope ardbert is the worst case scenario. Imagine what someone who can fully remember the final days and - the possibility of a remembered failure to save his people coupled with early shadowbringers ardbert who had failed and failed and failed again to save his world and was rewarded for their good deeds by becoming the reason their world fell. That could easily break a person. now onto the hurting his friend over and over again part, they'd absolutely need to cause significant suffering to practically everyone that was sundered enough times to rejoin all the worlds but that's not the half of it. Emet would have to aid in the rise and fall of civilisations - empires. how many wars- battles the causes and their consequences did he set up and work towards? how many orphans starved on the street only to be reborn again into an equally bleak life because of the wars and injustices he would have had to encourage. given the fact that he knew he was doing this it's no wonder he said the sundered aren't truely alive because to admit otherwise would be to admit the magnitude of the crime he committed on the people he had lived amongst for so long.
It's true that Emet-Selch believed that the Sundered weren't truly alive, but even so, Emet-Selch could see the color and true nature of one's soul. Deep down in all these Sundered individuals was Azem. Think of it this way, putting down an ailing pet hurts, sometimes for a while--even if they aren't as "intelligent" or "complex" as us. We still love them. Imagine killing it thirteen times over a span of 100 years, knowing that at the end, it would no longer be sick, and would even be able to talk and think like you do.
Considering we went back in time as ourselves to meet him, both us and Azem turns out were his friends all along. True we weren’t his old friend and colleague in the past, but we did have somewhat of a bond. Even if he doesn’t remember us, some things you can’t wipe from the soul.
Azem's crystal won't restore the memories, because it didn't have said memories when Emet created it. Azem had already left and disappeared when Emet made it. Instead, he just recreated and stored the unique spell that Azem once made, to honor his lost friend.
Honestly EW just showed us a slightly "happier" Emet who is still the sarcastic grump but he shows us his kindness, the life he lived with his friends, the reason he was fighting so hard for so long for the rejoining. It drove home the bitter-sweetness of his story, really the entire story, of hydaelyn, zodiark and everyone else. On a different not,e did anyone kinda laugh at the Emet/Hythlo CS at the end in ultima-thul? Hythlo is being all dramatic and like flourishing his arms about while mono-logging and it's like "best boi you cant do any creation magic!" Emet is probably over there a bit embarrassed rolling his eyes.
FFXIV story = Hades (Emet-Selch) redemption. One the many reasons why I love FFXIV...is Emet. The complexity and depth of his characterization is an epic tale. I appreciate your POV.
One of my favourite things about how Emet-Selch is written is... the dual meanings in his speech in the Capitol lobby (or at least the ones I saw in it, which... it's all subjective opinion in the end) Throughout the story, he seeks you out when you're alone to talk to you, and those are the moments when he's the most sincere, emotionally. (He never lies, but there are degrees to how guarded he is). But that speech... he's going between being the genocidal villain that the Scions expect, and want, him to be... and *asking* you, his friend, to kill him. That "Look at me!" line really stood out to me because... behind it, I just see someone who *knows* what he's become, knows he's in for another eternity of misery, and... yeah, wants to stop. But can't, literally does not have enough free will to stop. He tells you he's tempered, and by this point everyone knows what being tempered means. So he turns to the one person he can trust. Or what's left of them. And hopes that they can still hear him.
I didn't realize how much Emet-Selch was hurting. I started in ShB and kinda burned through the storyline so it was nice to hear some details I missed!
He basically says in his speech before fighting the WoL that he has done this same thing and had this same fight over and over and over. He looks and sounds tired and frustrated.
You mentioned that Emet-Selch lost his motivation. Perhaps. But, I think he turned to the fail safe of the true failing of the Ancients....DUTY with little consideration of anything else. This is apparent when Hythlodaues tells us of the various reworkings of the Shark by concept submitters. Bizarre constructs that ironically reflect the perverted amusements that Amon created to entertain the subjects (another failed civilization). We see this to a greater extent with Elidibus. It was civilization in decline having little diversification or passion. Hydaelyn recognized this when she points out that there need be shade in every paradise. Emet-Selch (the position) seems to be akin to Human Resources. He recruits to fill positions on the Convocation. We saw that with Hermes, and then with Amon. He even presents us with our duty at the end of Endwalker. My take on Emet-Selch is that he is torn on some level. He's angry at the end of Shadowbringers because subconsciously I think he knows he is wrong, and that all this time and effort was for naught and is running on fumes (duty). I think the biggest tell is when he says , "If I kill you I don't consider it to be murder, because I don't recognize you as being alive." Yet, to kill something...it MUST be alive. He contradicts himself in that very statement. He's further lost and angry in consideration of the Scions who reflect the best of us. Instead of debate, he passes it off as sophistry. But, internally, he's crushed.
"Endwalker nonsense"? What nonsense? I loved him in Shb and EW, and I haven't really heard anyone complain about how he is in EW. What am I missing here?
I really got interested in him at the end of Stormblood... it was the music in the cutscene, Bedlam's Brink that caught my attentio and made me pay attention to the scene and having him come back was just the gift that kept on giving.
I've done of lore for warhammer, and it's gotten me thinking of doing vids for other games, specifically the music of 14, and more specific then that the songs "who brings shadow" and "to the edge", and how they're masterpieces of story telling music composition
Personally, while i think the thought may have crossed his mind that he was killing our lives. He also fealt we were incomplete. That we werent ourselves. I may be wrong, but if i recall correctly, he said something along those lines. And he had to follow along with his plan, and be held down with such a burden for so long. It broke him. He lost his family and friends. And had only went half way through with the plan they had. I see him as a broken man. A man who has done all he can to relive an unobtainable past. and thats one of the reasons i love his character. You see why he does what he does, You understand some of the things that he says. He may not be in the right at the end of the day, But you understand. You understand Him, The why's, The what's. And that i think, is what matters. Its not always black and white. And to have such a multifaceted character was amazing.
If a sharp eyed player looks out for it, you notice that his coping method has always been denial. It’s always been there and you know he does it to deny the obvious truth. It hurts him so he tries to deny it but eventually he does come around.
I considered Hades to be a tragic broken man who had lost in the people he once called his own. Also considering what we learned end walker Ancient summoning magic didn’t temper it tempering was a modification of summoning to make rejoinings easier as it was intention to assimilate one into one’s faith. The last of the unsundered simply went insane as anyone in their circumstances would
he was tempered, he said as much. also living way says that it is an inherent part of something as large as hydalien or zodiarc. its not a part of normal summoning magic, but for something on that huge of a scale, it is a part of the process.
One of the things id like to hear your thoughts on is this. We know at this point, that Hades has now since returned to the Aetherial Sea. One day he shall be back. Well his soul will be anyway. How do you think coming back with an Unsundered soul would affect his new life. And as a side note. I feel this question would extend to all those who gave their life to Zodiark. SInce we were able to summon Hythlodaeus, it to me means that his soul was in the Sea. So it stands to reason that the others would be too. If this is the case, In the near distant future, we are gonna run into souls who potentially have the capabilities of the Ancients.
Well done. I've never even considered things this deeply. It just makes a great character all the better. In my opinion, one of the best antagonist and all of fiction.
Why I love Shadowbringers: Emet-Selch. Why I wanted to stay in Elpis: Emet-Selch. Why I want an AU where Hades is part of the Scions so I can romance him....
My WOL is a catgirl, So I am thinking Azem was female in my story. I went all zeros on the sliders during character creation. I laugh every time I think of the adventures the trio had, with a petite Azem dragging Emet Selch around...
What event really sold me on him was when we defeated the final light warden. I remember him being genuinely dejected by how we were unable to contain the light and that he got his hopes up for nothing. He really did want us to succeed.
This is why I love you content not only to Learn the lore of the game I love but now you are Teaching me something I didn't realize and I think you for it❤
Very indepth video! Some of the things you mention I wasn't aware of or had forgotten. I loved him instantly but didn't know why. I guess because I was Azem. :)
Then got reminded about the harsh realities of life as it is now. Lost a firstborn son before his time. Life often slaps you in the face more than many would care to admit.
@@acgearsandarms1343 We don't know what his son was named.... Azem Possibly? Also, consider that he took over Solus' body... and Solus is a Sun name too.
@@ChainedFei Highly coincidental considering Solus did have history before being possessed. It’s just a Garlean thing before he even changed their society I would think. As for the firstborn, his name is largely irrelevant. Point of his firstborn was that it was a reminder of how tragic life became.
The best way I heard it put is, both Hades, and another whom we fight in Endwalker, both fights are essentially an Ancient telling you, “Prove to me that you are strong enough to relieve me of my burden.”
Hades is such a wonderful character, even though he was our enemy for so long, I came to view him as, almost a friend.. I think, the same kind of friendship, that Zenos saw in the WoL. Extraordinary writing
I doubt Emet-Selch realized the WOL was Azem until his cutscene of surprise at the end, but I suppose that is irrelevant because he would know what he was doing to that soul regardless. It is interesting to think of how Emet might have grown to hate the pain a rejoined soul might still carry and the thought of him worrying on if he could be forgiven should he succeed.
As I walked in the recreation of Amaurot, a city I never knew but felt achingly familiar, I understood. This was a man that did not want to upend good for evil, light for dark. He was a man that sought to restore his home. His live. His life. As I talked to a new old friend, I knew his weight and I understood why. And yet I knew he had to be stopped. He was a man consumed and far more clever and dangerous than Archduke Thordan, or Nidhogg, or a god-infused Xenos. With the Exarch he had the path to upend everything and reduce all life to his will. Such a man as Hades would win in perpetuity, and that would lead to the death of all things and any other plot against the Aciams. I wanted to count Hades as a friend. I’m another life, perhaps we could have. But now, in the ends of this world only one truth held: Emet-Selch must die. Each step was heavy and hollow as I slow walked to the capital and faced this: our final conclusion.
What always gets me is his reaction to Alisaie's speech in 'Amaurot'. He agrees. He looks down and away, and shows *a moment* of hesitation in striking her away.
It's a fine theory, but it's unlikely he's bothered much by killed the shards of Azem. He views not only the sundered plebs with contempt, but even the sundered convocation members as well. Even Mitron admits that Emet Selch didn't care about him enough to bother going through the trouble of saving him from where he was trapped on the 1st as it'd be less effort to just leave his shard to rot and raise another one of his shards to his seat instead. An Emet Selch that cares about his sundered peers would have moved mountains to save him, no matter how much of a bother it was.
It still makes sense. He misses his friends. His Amaroutine friends. Anything less than a world fully rejoined will not qualify as “his friends” and while his loneliness complicates stuff and may empty his resolve, he never really liked anyone that was living up to Shadowbringers, and Endwalker reveals that is because Amarout exists so far in the past he literally cares only about Elidibus before the Warrior of Light proved themself worthy
One theory I really like is that one of the things that really broke Emmet-selch was the fact that we were broken before the power of the light... And then suddenly, in a flash of light and force, stood up to our full height and challenged him, and won. We rejoined with ardbert of our own free will, from a mutual agreement between the fragments of the same soul, and proved that all of his crimes were for nothing. One of the easiest ways for a person like Hades to justify crimes against humanity is through the idea that "there is no other way." Hades truly believed that the rejoinings were the only way to make ethiris whole again, so even if his conscious was screaming at him about all the lives he was exterminating and torturing with every rejoining, he resigned himself to the shelter of his duty and told himself that it was the only way to see the world and his people restored. But then we challenged him, and proved that he was wrong the whole time. There was another way the entire time, we just proved it right before his eyes, we rejoined ourselves without committing a genocide in the process. Which is why he's happy when he dies, because we just proved to him that the world is in good hands. Hands that are probably better suited for sheparding the star than his. Because we were able to find a way to restore the world and its people without destroying billions of lives in the process. We found a way to restore the people, and have the people genuinely happy for the experience. We had proven him wrong, and he had never been more happy to *be* wrong.
I hope so too but I kind of hope they are both reincarnated and we can just catch a glimpse of their old selves maybe ina look or attitude or eye colour. I think their old tale is done but their souls can begin anew.
there is also the brutal honest fact that they admitted they messed up the 13th world, as in even if the rest of the shards all rejoined according to plan, in the end their wish would never come true, it'd only be 12/13 pieces at max
Really hope that doesn't age like milk eventually. If 13th is hopeless,then we will probably only kill Golbez and grab Azdaja, no restoration, no balance, just that
@@DoppelgangerTH Hmmm, truthfully I don't know, can't really make that educated guess atm. If Endwalker showed us anything its that there are methods the Ancients either didn't have the capacity for or did not consider a possibility when facing specific obstacles. Maybe we'll work something up for the 13th, not to mention Zero is a very unknown/sensitive variable in all of this, I really don't think ANYthing can be done with the 13th without her heavy involvement-so where as before, even the Ancients considered the 13th un-salvageable, it might not be the case now.
Do we know for sure that the ascians were tempered by zodiark ? I thought Souls of the caliber of emeth selch or elidibus were above that, especially considering that they weren’t trying to grow and perpetuate their primal like normal tempered, more in the contrary they were using it as a mean to get back the paradise of they lost civilization.
When did it mention he was tempered by zodiark…i thought the tempering only happened to the later primals due to the ascians teaching us the wrong way to summon on purpose
It wasn't mentioned in a cutscene. If you talked to him in the crystal tower he made an off handed remark about being Tempered by Zodiark. But since it was in the MSQ we need to accept what he said as canon despite the errors that creates.
Maybe zodiark wasn't meant to tempered the ancient, but it grew to strong to control and overtime he was able to do it, also maybe if elidibus was part of zodiark he was able to modify it somehow to make the others to comply....
@@SynodicScribe I wish I knew what in blazes being tempered by Zodiark would even mean when Zodiark is basically just Elidibus. Zodiark is shown to be nothing but a hollow shell without someone to control the reigns. And Hydaelyn appears to have Venat's consciousness fully intact. So being tempered by Zodiark basically means being tempered by Elidibis.
@@SynodicScribe It's canon that he said that, but there are different ways to interpret the line. I took it as more of the way Tiamat was tempered by Bahamut. When your aetherial presence is that big, the effect of tempering doesn't remove your free will to the same extent that Titan tempering some random kobold does. His actions were still his choice, though he might have heard some light whispering in the background about how it would be totally awesome to rejoin the shards and make zodiark whole.
I’ve seen this many times that zodiark tempered the unsundered ascians but where was this confirmed or implied. As far as I know in Endwalker they said it was the ascians that invented tempering for the beast tribe primal. Can someone point me to a source please?
It is confirmed in shadowbringers by Emet-Selch himself. One of his direct dialogue lines in the crystal tower. He admits he is tempered. Though he seems to be like Tiamat in tempering. She still had some of her own mind and will but yet would still have been compelled to re-summon Bahamut had she been free to do so. I actually have the scene recorded where he says this but that would take some digging through a lot of videos.
@@alexvandu1 I am not sure if this will work I am going to try and paste something here it is the Japanese translation of that exact scene. Ok cool it worked. I will still pull up my videos then I can tell you which quest it comes after. And Zodiark is our creation. エメトセルク : 現代の人は、神降ろしをしたり、 蛮神のエネルギーを身に受けることで、 強制的な同調……テンパード状態になるだろう？ When the people of nowadays invoke their gods, they take the primal's energies into their bodies, and are forcibly aligned… in other words, tempered, yes? エメトセルク : 実のところ、私たちにも、同じことは起きている。 So are we. 精神への干渉こそ、いくらかは防げるが、 あれほどの存在を顕現させれば、どうしても引っ張られるのさ。 In manifesting such a massive presence, no matter how much we might try to guard against its influence on our minds, we cannot help but be drawn in eventually. エメトセルク : 結果、アシエンはゾディアークの有する力…… In the end, we were changed by Zodiark's dark power... 「闇」とも呼ばれる、活性と激化の力に寄った存在に、 ならざるを得なかったわけだ。 We became beings of the element you call Astral Dark.
Lol just brushing off emet's part to play in ew is a little harsh. If its the time travel i mean at least they tied it up so it didnt ruin the story. And elpis was prolly the most interesting part of the whole expansion so im cool with it. Emet being at the forefront of an investigation he doesnt believe was a really great way to show his character. Of course its not the height of his character but he had his time to shine now he was there to give us familiarity in an alien place.
Re: tempered ascians. Can we even still claim that considering what we now know about the summoning of primals? Namely that what we know as tempering primals are just flawed/modified versions of actual primal summons. Implying that summons in general aren't tempering as a basic instinct, considering the ascians had to teach the beast tribes how to summon, and they taught them to summon *specifically* the tempering kind.
I think he just means the time travel nonsense that is kind of an excuse for the Emet Selch fanservice. Definitely one of my favorite parts despite that though
And this is why you can't look at it in a vacuum. Yes, if you take EW out of the equation, what you say makes sense, but the fact that even afterwards, he believed that his way was the right one, shows that he wasn't tempered by Zodiark, he truly believed in it. Which is a big reason why he refuses to be brought back, the world we cherish is not the world he loved. He did truly belief in his cause, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't exhausted, two things can be true at the same time. He did not regret his actions, he regret having to leave Elidibus behind, who in the grand scheme of the ancients was basically a child... A lost, confused child who was all alone and left with a momentous task, the weight that Hades had to hold for so long... so he helped us put him to rest. And let us not pretend like their plans had no merit at all, considering that Emet's evaluation of us was correct, we are weak, we are petty, we are monstrous beasts, most of which would rather stab each other in the back then sacrifice themselves for the other, We and the Scions and our friends are the exceptions to this rule. Heck, even the Grand Companies were guilty of this until we came along and hand-held them to the correct conclusions. And if not for them, we would have not even been able to STALL the Final Days, we all would have perished had simply Elidibus or Hades told us to go fuck ourselves... which they had every right to. 'You think yourself worthy to replace us, to become the true stewards of the star? Then deal with the Final Days the way we had to, blind. Figure it out on your own.'
The thing is: the Ancients weren't worthy as stewards of the star either. In an interview, Yoshi-P states with certainty that they would have eventually brought about the star's doom once they had achieved "perfection." And their crass belief that they had the right to create and destroy life on a whim was and is, disgusting. Creating concepts, living beings, some even sapient, because it had become a FAD to do so? Making sapient beings without the ability to speak? They would be "fixed" of course, but all those PEOPLE were going to be killed. It was the way of Elpis. What right do they have to judge Mankind, when they still engage in petty cruelty... justifying it to themselves that these were not "real" beings?
@@TheSuperRatt Because they were right, they weren't beings. That is like, let us say either drawing or programming a character, that thing is your creation, but if you don't like it, you will try to make it better or simply delete it and start a new project. These things were MADE not born, but created. And we aren't talking about the same process of like giving birth, nah. They sat down at a table, decided; 'Why not give sharks legs, that sounds cool!' Then they come up with the concept, it is reviewed and then made in elpis to see if it is worthy to exist. And as much as I love Yoshi, I would ask him how and why this perfection would have caused the destruction of the star, perhaps the answer will be revealed in the raid, but so far, not convinced.
@@imaran1303 go look at the final area of the dead ends dungeon, the parallels to the ancients are obvious. Oh yeah, and read the notes too. They have lore.
@@rachelkelley5930 Are there parallels between those people and the ancients? Sure. But it isn't the same. The ancients HAD 'strife'. They just knew how to deal with it properly, though intellectual debate. They had death. And it wasn't seen as something desirable, but a end to your duties.
@@imaran1303 I never said they were the same, but that is where the ancients were headed once they reached perfection. Not yet maybe, but inevitably it would happen. Also no, they didn’t understand how to deal with strife properly, Hermes being Hermes is proof of that.
Hythlodeus was part of Zodiark, and Zodiark was sundered, therefore Hythlodeus will also be sundered. As for Hades, his soul will likely remain powerful even in his next life, but with no affinity for Dynamis.
@@SynodicScribe but when we summoned him in Ultima Thule he used creation magic with Hades to create the Elpis Flowers, sundered souls can't use pure creation magic, plus according to Hades the sundered people that were around immediately after the sundering didn't remember the world before
@@SynodicScribe Question,if the "core" of zodiark in the source died,what you think happened to his parts in the reflections? did the die as well? and if so, follow up question, is the aetherial sea the same between the source and the reflections like,are they connected? cause if so, maybe all the shards of the people stuck inside zodiark rejoined in the aetherial sea,as all of them died at the same time
@@Ghanzza The easy answer with Zodiark's pieces at the shards is we don't know. Given how tightly their aether is tied together his lingering power could very well still be part of the shards, but now it'd just be another part of that shard's aether. Also no, each shard has it's own aetherial realm. Imagine them as self contained worlds existing along side the source.
It makes you wonder, though. See, the names "Azem", "Emmet-Selch", "Lahabrea", aren't personal names, they're titles of office. Like, Venat was "Azem" before the person who the WoL is supposed to resemble. So, how would Emmet-Selch know his friend from the person the WoL resembles, or Venat? How do we know the Lahabrea we meet in Pandaemonium and Erichthonio's father isn't the same Lahabrea we fight with after the Ultima Weapon?
yeah, and I personally struggled with that storyline. The character of Minfilia meant something to me personally, so I really hoped beyond hope she would come back. jfc, I still tear up, lol
2:20 ''But before we move forward, I want it to be known that i'm gonna address this character without all the Endwalker nonsense that involve Emet-Selch. And anyone who has played the expansion, you know exactly what I mean'' What none sense? I've played Endwalker and I don't even have the slightest clue what you mean. Can you or someone perhaps care to explain?
One thing I don’t get - why are all the regular people in the reflections the antithesis of the ancients? They’re all a portion of the soul of an original ancient, why don’t they share any of the views and values of the ancients? The WOL comes close but they are just one person. Their society does not reflect that of the ancients at all. It reminds me of Genesis where an “original sin” has corrupted everyone and made them subject to death, and the only way to be made whole is come “come back” to the source, God, whatever you want to call it. I also don’t understand what makes the ascians believe that everyone will suddenly behave like ancient when they are made whole.
One thing I love pointing out when people talk about how bad Emet Selch was, was that G'raha and the Iron Works team were no better. They intended their timeline to disappear. A time line which existed for a further 200 years. 200 of years of lives and the rebuilding of civilization wiped out because they wanted to remake the world the way it used to be because they saw it as a morally better world. I'm glad we got the short story showing they were wrong, but that was in no way their intention. Its 200 years vs 12000 years, makes you realise that for the Ascians at first they probably thought the same was Iron Works did
200 years of rebuilding so amazing those sitting at the top with access to technology that made Emet-Selch go wtf would rather erase themselves and try again then go on.
@@menosay1912 i hadn't even thought of that! they freakin figured out how to cross not only the rift but also travel through time and use the power of the crystal tower, the tower which allowed the Allegans to live carefree due to the amount of power it produced but NOPE. Toss it in the bin.
"Remember us." "I will." "I will remember the folly of you and yours." "I will remember the deaths. The potentially billions of innocent people you subjugated, enslaved... the people you murdered." "I will remember the blood on your hands, red as the mask you hide behind. A stain for each star you destroyed." "I will remember how you and your ILK were too frightened, too insecure to face the fact! That when all was said and done, your high and mighty civilization destroyed itself!" "I will remember, and I will see to it *personally* that our history makes no mention of yours." "I will bear the *burden* of this knowledge alone, so no one else has to." "I will be glad to know that my death will mark the end of your people's story." "Now, join your brothers in oblivion... and be forgotten." When that scene played out before my eyes in Shadowbringers, I had to pause it and say my piece. I remember thinking that Emet and it's brethren could have put their vaunted power and knowledge to GOOD use. To help the new worlds thrive, but instead they killed so many. Such a waste. All of the above was my sentiment then... and after Endwalker, it is *still* the way I feel. Back then, I had suspected that the Ancients destroyed themselves, and it was gratifying in a macabre sort of way, to find that I was right. The Ancients' callous disregard for the sanctity of life lead one of their own to create the means of their civilization's end... Oh, and not JUST their own end, but their creation brought about the end of almost all life in EXISTENCE! As far as the supposed "friendship" that Emet had with Azem... I just don't see it. Emet and it's enabler, Hythlodeus weren't at all the kind of creatures that I would associate myself with. Emet's foul attitude, flippant remarks about the animals in Elpis, Hythlodeus' constant defending and excusing his friend's behavior-- The whole dynamic between the two was jarring and seemed more like an abusive relationship more than anything. I get that some people might find that endearing, but frankly... I found them both insufferable. Indeed, thanks to the way their "friendship" was portrayed in-game, my Azem (Baphomet) was always going off to other places around the globe, not *entirely* because of his position, but just to stay the hell away from.... those two. In this character, I see a beautifully written, *masterfully* performed (Wow, these facts cannot be understated. Well done, Rene Zagger!), but still very much, horrific monster. It gets no sympathy from me. It gets no redemption. It deserves no happy ending. It is simply, *the best villain* ever written for a Final Fantasy game. A monster with a diseased mind that must be put down in a most brutal fashion. And that makes me very happy. *That* is what I enjoy about Emet-Selch. :-)
Good thing you're not the self insert Warrior of Light in sooth, then. Because holy shit, that was some of the most hateful shit I've seen written in a while. The Scions wouldn't even let you join their organization if you're constantly spewing vitriol like that, heroes don't do that. Also, Hydaelyn/Venat did worse, if for better reasons. It is stated directly by Yoshi-P in the recent Q&A that she was truly an ancient like the rest, and she was the one who let Emet and the rest escape unsundered, because it was essential to ensure the future she saw come to pass. So in summary, Venat is equally culpable in every sundered life Ascians took.
I'm not talking about Endwalker for spoilers reasons. We got a lot of new players lately! I can't help it if everyone automatically assuming the worst of me. lol
@@SynodicScribe You could begin by choosing words without a negative connotation, if that isn't your opinion. You aren't doing these videos at a whim, right? You do write a script, going through edits and revisions? It doesn't really matter to me, but you did have a long time to choose your diction, unless you film your videos ad hoc.
@@SynodicScribe But when are things not considered ''spoilers'' any more enough for you to talk about it? Like there will always be new players who haven't fully done the MSQ yet and I believe it's their responsibility to not look up lore online if they don't wanna get spoiled. I avoided your channel and many others like the plague before I finished EW so to not get accidentally spoiled. Now I can freely watch your stuff and I think your content is amazing and i'm glad I can finally check it out I would really like a video or something to just hear your point about why it's ''nonsense'' because really, I have no clue what you were talking about so hearing other's perspectives would be great
Hades was the gift that kept on giving. Post ShB completely re contextualized the "remember us" smile. He wasn't just smiling to a respected enemy. He was bidding farewell to an old friend.
A "New old friend" if you will.
*sobs all over again*
@@althelor also an old new friend. Hades probably kicked himself realizing that he got roped into Azem’s whacky wahoo adventures not only once, but twice over.
Oh God that hits even harder now
I think endwalker hades is still pretty great to show the "unbroken" version of him. He pretty much leads the charge in trying to stop the future events despite saying that he doesn't believe it and he has so much energy to do what he believes is right. It's great
Yeah I thought it was pretty strange to brush off Hades in EW as "nonsense" with just a "you know why it's bad". If we didn't get more Hades after ShB I wouldn't mind since I think that ending was perfect. I do think however that his part in EW was completely fine.
@@qAxLp I think he was referring to the time travel in general was still fine imo. Time travel has a tendency to get confusing and bad but Ew did it pretty well and kept it mostly sane
@@Monstergirl-ologist my only grievance with the time travel we did was it contradicted how it worked in shb where Graha created an alternate timeline as the tales series showed us his original timeline still existed. But it could be said what we did ultimately kept the chain of events the same not creating an another alternate timeline. As a whole I’m fine with what they did let’s just hope we never use it again
@@inuclearpickle8628 G'raha didn't create an alternate timeline tho. He slid in a parallel timeline instead and travelled back to its past. This was evidenced by that cutscene where future G'raha was reading Count Fortemp's book where he says events that occured in a different order. G'raha and Biggs III didn't know so they thought they were erasing that timeline's present using G'raha's time travel. Endwalker time travel follows that of Alexander storyline instead.
@@darkedge221 honestly the more I think about your explanation the harder it is for me to even wrap my brain around time travel in Ffxiv at this point I don’t even wanna question it anymore I really hope they don’t use ever again this stuff is too damn confusing
I believe that Emet is a deeply hurt man. When I saw Amaurot in the Tempest, my little Au Ra stood on a ledge which showed the Skyline of the city he wove from Aether. When I realized that he *made* a reflection of this city, built on memory, to walk on those streets he loved so much once again, to see reflections of his people once again, even though they were nothing but mere memories, I realized he manifested his pain with the tip of his fingers, weaving the aether and the force that gives life into that what he misses most: Home.
If we look at it, the Unsundered lost everything. Their family, friends, their loved ones, lives, jobs, the mere ground they walked on, all gone. To endure this pain for over 9000 years, holding on onto hope and the deity they created in despair to bring back what they lost has left a mark on all of them. Lahabrea became dark and cynical, Elidibus was losing his memories - he didnt even remember who he promised to help, and Emet became depressed, homesick and ultimately, lonely. He has seen death in all its forms. Calamity of Lightening, people being swallowed by waves of electricity. Calamity of fire, people burning alive. Calamity of Earth, people being swallowed by the ravenous earthquake and crushed by boulders. Calamity of Light, warping all beings caught into the flood painfully into mindless monsters deprived of aether. The list goes on: War, pestilence, torture, murder, rape, violence. He has seen it all. Nobody stood out. And then, in this one era, there is this one little WOL person that managed to withstand and even fight back. Was this the clue he was hoping for? The glimmer of hope that life can persist as it is?
The complexity of this character is unmatched and it is one of the reasons that Shadowbringers is still my favorite expansion of the entire game.
The simple thing to see it, he's litterally bearing the weight of the burden on his shoulders, until we kill him and stand straight finally.
EW allowed us to see normal Emet-selch, before being destroyed by the loss of his friends, it was particularly beautiful for me. Especially the fact that for him, becoming so disrespectful of life was against his nature at the time.
I think that, despite missing his life before, he spent his life trying to find the sundered worthy. I wonder if he tried to find Azem's shards on every world to see if his quest was finally over, continuing with the rejoining when he find us lacking ...
Hades carried the crystal of Azem themselves... probably with the intention of giving it to them, restoring their memories... asking for their help, their forgiveness.
@@ChainedFei Sadly... Azem's crystal does not have Azem's memories, since Azem had already left the convocation by then, and wasn't there for the crystal to scan/record their memories. All it contains is the signature spell that Azem made, recreated by Emet Selch to honor their memory. The 'Duty Finder' spell.
@@KimiruLVR it doesn’t contain Azem’s memories but it does contains hades memory and knowledge of Azem it was his keep sake so he would never forget
@@AzraelMight There's never any indication that it holds anything inside other than Azem's signature spell that Emet recreated for it.
if it had emet's memories we should have already synchronized with the gem and gained those memories by now, like how every other one of those crystals (like job crystals) operated.
iirc Shade Hythlodaeus implied as much that it only has a tribute/rememberance to azem when they gave it to us, but no memories.
I think the reason Emet-Selch is so fondly remembered is a combination of factors. Partly his generally quirky nature, partly the reveal that he's fond of empire-building(and damn good at it, too), but primarily that he's the first Ascian we meet that actually feels like a real person, contrasting moustache-twirling supervillain Lahabrea and stoic, mission-minded Elidibus.
Yoshida actually explained the whole thing with Emet Selch in a radio mog station broadcast (around the 30:00 - 35:00 minute mark) where they were talking EW spoilers; a lot of people thought that Emet was brought back in EW because of fan service but it was planned since ShB. Elpis Emet is the "pure" Emet whereas after experiencing the Final Days, tried to love the new people, or rather, only fragments of the people he loved, of the sundered world and ended up being betrayed many times resulted in the ShB Emet.
The same reason why Elidibus was only absorbed in 5.3 and his aether was not destroyed is because the writers needed a way for us to get to Elpis and Elidibus was the one who was given that role long before EW released.
P.S. Completely irrelevant to the text above, the reason why Krile is not in the EW art with all of the scions is because Yoshida didn't notice she was missing in his sketch when ordering the artwork and when he noticed that she was missing, it was to late. xD
"A villain can't be deeply compelling or well fleshed out in only a single expansion" - The Jailer, probably.
To be fair, although we only really meet Emet in person in ShB, you are vicariously interacting with him through a lot of the story, be it the Garleans, Allagans other Ascians, by the time we meet him and know what he did gives us a lot to work with from the start. It was just the first time we really saw the man behind the curtain. The Jailer was a outright asspull at the 11th hour
I find it really interesting that Hades is a perfect parallel to G'raha Tia : Both are soft boys turned cloaked and stoic immortal beings, both recreate the image of their home in a world that feels foreign to them (the Amaurote illusion and the Garlemald empire on one side and Cristarium on the other, the latter being a recreation of Sharlayan from Raha's memories), and both keep struggling across generations - and slowly lose themselves in the process - to bring back the time where their beloved friend and hero was alive (that hero being the same person in both cases, although the WoL is like 8-9/14ths of Azem).
You can really tell that behind the scheming and attitude, Hades is just a sad and lonely guy that's desperate and willing to sacrifice anything just to see his hero again, and I think that if G'raha Tia had gone on to live as the Crystal Exarch without success for as long as Hades has been Emet-Selch, he would've turned to despair as well.
My theory is the Source echoes are stronger when they manifest because we're 8/14 now, 1 source and 7 rejoinings. Though, because they borked the Void, we'd only ever be 13/14 complete afaik? I'm surprised they didn't give up then, those souls were like... Lost lost, weren't they?
@@nisahurbina4553 Some recent fan theories I've seen go around lately is that, with Golbez all but confirmed to be a major player from The Void in 6.X, it's likely the shard of Azem from there was Cecil and either Cecil will appear in a future patch or the Voidsent that Zenos formed a pact with was Cecil, the supposed appearance of Voidsent-Possessed Zenos at the end of 6.1 might be Cecil using Zenos' corpse to try and fix things in The Thirteenth.
I honestly have doubts of Cecil being present in any way (even if EndWalker had a bunch of FF4 references and inspirations) and it might just be Golbez as the 6.X character. Maybe his Four Fiends as those elementals we saw him speak to, but I doubt there'll be a Cecil and whatever has Zenos' corpse (if it even is Zenos' corpse) is a different character not related to Azem.
@@nisahurbina4553 we are 9/14ths actually. Since we went through 7 rejoinings, and then rejoined with ardbert on our own. Which I find interesting as it seems that Emmet-selch had no idea such a thing was even possible, meaning that not only did we thwart him, we showed him in one fell swoop that all his genocides were *not justified* because there was another, much more humane way than what he had dedicated his life to doing.
@@althelor He wouldn't be able to do that, Venat had the control over the lifestream.
@@althelor Rejoining with Ardbert and that single flash of (probably) Azem prior to the Hades fight was such a complete dab on the violent rejoining plan that Emet-Selch actually loses his composure for a second. Gra'ha unleashing the Duty Finger shortly afterwards, especially considering Azem's soul crystal, is like 90% of the reason he loses his complete shit in the end before the final fight.
I feel like there was still some bad blood between Emet-Selch and Azem when Zodiark was summoned. Mostly in the fact that the title of "traitor" in Garlean is Latin for "traveler".
Considering the fact that the creation of the Garlean Empire was something he very recently did, it shows just how far gone Emet Selch had started to become. All those years of isolation and resentment to his best friend, years that could've been filled with joy and love and eventually embracing their death together started to become bitter
I love this theory so much
Venat was the one being called traitor. but yes it could work for both of them.
@moruemourue9692 I'm more inclined to agree that "viator" is toward Hydaelyn/Venat rather than WoL/Azem.
@@Alissandre_Iskander That is also very valid!
Just speculation, but one thing that might have dampened E-S's enthusiasm for rejoinings was the corruption of the 13th. That's one shard worth of souls permanently destroyed. His people could never be truly complete again. Zodiark could never be truly complete again. Even if every other shard was rejoined there's no guarantee that the people would be the same, or that Zodiark would have the power to fix everything again. More likely than not his entire quest was doomed, but he was compelled to keep at it anyway. Facing down another ten thousand years of committing mass murder with no reason to believe the reward he sought was still attainable. That would wear anyone down.
I took the situation with the 13th as something that Emet thought he could eventually learn to undo (whether or not he actually could, that he believed he could). Otherwise, why offhandedly mention it without saying something to the effect of "and thus our labors were doomed"? Also, given that he was willing to ally with a seven-times-rejoined Warrior of Light if they proved strong enough, I wonder if he might himself believe that somehow he would find a way to undo the 13th if he had the help of a cohort of several twelve-times-rejoined "lesser" Ascians (that they uplifted from normal soul fragments; i.e. Mitron, Loghrif, Igeyorhm, etc.)? Many things to speculate as to his motivations, and many threads to pull on for headcanons...
I think he wanted to use Graha knowledge over time travel for this purpose, to come back on the 13th before it was ruined. But that would probably mean they'd need to do it all over again since this was the first calamity...
hate on time travel all you want. Elpsis was great.
as for Emet him self. or Hades rather. I'd never even considered part of him being so burnt out and done with the Rejoinings was his regular killing of Azem. It makes sense now that it's brought up, as I recall a lot of his lines on 'worth Stuarts of the star' being more focused on 'what he lost' in terms of his friends.
Oh yeah Elpis was absolutely beautiful! And we learned so much about the Ancient's civilization that it was mind blowing! What I hate are the continuity errors and paradoxes I have to write my scripts around now....
@@SynodicScribe what paradoxes? as I'm pretty sure everyone just shrugged us off as some weird familiar.
I mean I KNOW there's a rant about the Echo/Blessing of Light coming, but I'm legit drawing a blank on what 'we left behind' that should have changed something but didn't, or is this the whole thing with Venat only becoming Hydaelyn because we went back and warned her?
@@Kitsune10060 I've already ranted about how much they screwed up the Echo/Blessing of Light, I ain't gonna beat that dead horse.
But seeing as the narrative issues Endwalker's time travel created isn't obvious, I'll likely leave that alone too. Just let people's head cannon run wild on that one. haha
@@SynodicScribe shame that. but oh well. looking forward to what ever is next regardless.
“Stuarts of the star”? You mean what Albsterz calls chocobos when he plays FF games? He likes using that word a lot. That’s not a bad thing I guess. Being a chocobo.
My hope is that at some point in FFXIV, no matter in which expansion, we are able to see Emet, Hyth and Azem again. Together, as Emet wanted.
Or at least being able to see them in a more happy context.
The writers deserve awards above those of mere gaming awards for this story. Emet is flawed, complex, and beautiful. Doesn't get much more relatable than that.
His last words brought me to tears. He's a horrible person, but you saw what drove him to such horrors. Remember... Remember us... Remember that we lived. He did not want the Ascians, his friends, to be forgotten. They will not be. They created such devastation and horror. They will never be forgiven. But it is good to understand him, at the very least, a little better.
I'd never thought about the fact that he may have realised he was killing a friend over and over. Though really you have to wonder if a person sundered and a person reincarnated are really even equivalent. There was a sundered Azem long ago but they died and were reincarnated . A succession of people that shared their soul were born from it fall making their own memories and each becoming their own person. A person is as much their memories as they are their soul - perhaps more so.
This means that even if Emet really was driven by the desire to reunite with one of his closest friends it was a hope that was doomed to fail from the start , the warrior of light is not Azem - they're a new person writing a new story and borrowing the same soul Azem once borrowed themselves to do so. No matter how many rejoicings that soul has or will go through Azem will never be brought back. At best assuming he planned to use the Azem crystal to give Azems soul to their current reincarnation they'd get a new person that can also remember Azem's life and there is no telling how that person could take this, best case scenario, by the time they're done rejoining all the worlds you might get a person similar enough to the person azem once was that hasn't suffered so much that they develop any major issues, your middle ground might be someone like our own warriors of light who clearly have baggage but seem at least better at keeping afloat than someone like ardbert who coincidentally was ripped from the same cloth as well and we had better hope ardbert is the worst case scenario. Imagine what someone who can fully remember the final days and - the possibility of a remembered failure to save his people coupled with early shadowbringers ardbert who had failed and failed and failed again to save his world and was rewarded for their good deeds by becoming the reason their world fell. That could easily break a person.
now onto the hurting his friend over and over again part, they'd absolutely need to cause significant suffering to practically everyone that was sundered enough times to rejoin all the worlds but that's not the half of it. Emet would have to aid in the rise and fall of civilisations - empires. how many wars- battles the causes and their consequences did he set up and work towards? how many orphans starved on the street only to be reborn again into an equally bleak life because of the wars and injustices he would have had to encourage. given the fact that he knew he was doing this it's no wonder he said the sundered aren't truely alive because to admit otherwise would be to admit the magnitude of the crime he committed on the people he had lived amongst for so long.
It's true that Emet-Selch believed that the Sundered weren't truly alive, but even so, Emet-Selch could see the color and true nature of one's soul. Deep down in all these Sundered individuals was Azem.
Think of it this way, putting down an ailing pet hurts, sometimes for a while--even if they aren't as "intelligent" or "complex" as us. We still love them. Imagine killing it thirteen times over a span of 100 years, knowing that at the end, it would no longer be sick, and would even be able to talk and think like you do.
Considering we went back in time as ourselves to meet him, both us and Azem turns out were his friends all along. True we weren’t his old friend and colleague in the past, but we did have somewhat of a bond. Even if he doesn’t remember us, some things you can’t wipe from the soul.
Azem's crystal won't restore the memories, because it didn't have said memories when Emet created it. Azem had already left and disappeared when Emet made it. Instead, he just recreated and stored the unique spell that Azem once made, to honor his lost friend.
Honestly EW just showed us a slightly "happier" Emet who is still the sarcastic grump but he shows us his kindness, the life he lived with his friends, the reason he was fighting so hard for so long for the rejoining. It drove home the bitter-sweetness of his story, really the entire story, of hydaelyn, zodiark and everyone else.
On a different not,e did anyone kinda laugh at the Emet/Hythlo CS at the end in ultima-thul? Hythlo is being all dramatic and like flourishing his arms about while mono-logging and it's like "best boi you cant do any creation magic!" Emet is probably over there a bit embarrassed rolling his eyes.
FFXIV story = Hades (Emet-Selch) redemption. One the many reasons why I love FFXIV...is Emet. The complexity and depth of his characterization is an epic tale. I appreciate your POV.
One of my favourite things about how Emet-Selch is written is... the dual meanings in his speech in the Capitol lobby (or at least the ones I saw in it, which... it's all subjective opinion in the end)
Throughout the story, he seeks you out when you're alone to talk to you, and those are the moments when he's the most sincere, emotionally. (He never lies, but there are degrees to how guarded he is).
But that speech... he's going between being the genocidal villain that the Scions expect, and want, him to be... and *asking* you, his friend, to kill him. That "Look at me!" line really stood out to me because... behind it, I just see someone who *knows* what he's become, knows he's in for another eternity of misery, and... yeah, wants to stop. But can't, literally does not have enough free will to stop. He tells you he's tempered, and by this point everyone knows what being tempered means.
So he turns to the one person he can trust. Or what's left of them.
And hopes that they can still hear him.
I didn't realize how much Emet-Selch was hurting. I started in ShB and kinda burned through the storyline so it was nice to hear some details I missed!
He basically says in his speech before fighting the WoL that he has done this same thing and had this same fight over and over and over. He looks and sounds tired and frustrated.
You mentioned that Emet-Selch lost his motivation. Perhaps. But, I think he turned to the fail safe of the true failing of the Ancients....DUTY with little consideration of anything else. This is apparent when Hythlodaues tells us of the various reworkings of the Shark by concept submitters. Bizarre constructs that ironically reflect the perverted amusements that Amon created to entertain the subjects (another failed civilization). We see this to a greater extent with Elidibus. It was civilization in decline having little diversification or passion. Hydaelyn recognized this when she points out that there need be shade in every paradise. Emet-Selch (the position) seems to be akin to Human Resources. He recruits to fill positions on the Convocation. We saw that with Hermes, and then with Amon. He even presents us with our duty at the end of Endwalker. My take on Emet-Selch is that he is torn on some level. He's angry at the end of Shadowbringers because subconsciously I think he knows he is wrong, and that all this time and effort was for naught and is running on fumes (duty). I think the biggest tell is when he says , "If I kill you I don't consider it to be murder, because I don't recognize you as being alive." Yet, to kill something...it MUST be alive. He contradicts himself in that very statement. He's further lost and angry in consideration of the Scions who reflect the best of us. Instead of debate, he passes it off as sophistry. But, internally, he's crushed.
I’m a sucker for antagonists that accompany you throughout the game
"Endwalker nonsense"? What nonsense? I loved him in Shb and EW, and I haven't really heard anyone complain about how he is in EW. What am I missing here?
I really got interested in him at the end of Stormblood... it was the music in the cutscene, Bedlam's Brink that caught my attentio and made me pay attention to the scene and having him come back was just the gift that kept on giving.
I've done of lore for warhammer, and it's gotten me thinking of doing vids for other games, specifically the music of 14, and more specific then that the songs "who brings shadow" and "to the edge", and how they're masterpieces of story telling music composition
Yessssssss
Personally, while i think the thought may have crossed his mind that he was killing our lives. He also fealt we were incomplete. That we werent ourselves. I may be wrong, but if i recall correctly, he said something along those lines. And he had to follow along with his plan, and be held down with such a burden for so long. It broke him. He lost his family and friends. And had only went half way through with the plan they had. I see him as a broken man. A man who has done all he can to relive an unobtainable past.
and thats one of the reasons i love his character. You see why he does what he does, You understand some of the things that he says. He may not be in the right at the end of the day, But you understand. You understand Him, The why's, The what's.
And that i think, is what matters. Its not always black and white. And to have such a multifaceted character was amazing.
If a sharp eyed player looks out for it, you notice that his coping method has always been denial. It’s always been there and you know he does it to deny the obvious truth. It hurts him so he tries to deny it but eventually he does come around.
I considered Hades to be a tragic broken man who had lost in the people he once called his own. Also considering what we learned end walker
Ancient summoning magic didn’t temper it tempering was a modification of summoning to make rejoinings easier as it was intention to assimilate one into one’s faith. The last of the unsundered simply went insane as anyone in their circumstances would
he was tempered, he said as much. also living way says that it is an inherent part of something as large as hydalien or zodiarc. its not a part of normal summoning magic, but for something on that huge of a scale, it is a part of the process.
@@MaceLight It's still a different sort of tempering than what we're familiar with. A compulsion, but one that could seemingly be managed.
@@MaceLightMinor correction. Livingway only said on the level of Zodiark specifically. Hydaelyn was by far weaker in comparison.
One of the things id like to hear your thoughts on is this. We know at this point, that Hades has now since returned to the Aetherial Sea. One day he shall be back. Well his soul will be anyway. How do you think coming back with an Unsundered soul would affect his new life.
And as a side note. I feel this question would extend to all those who gave their life to Zodiark. SInce we were able to summon Hythlodaeus, it to me means that his soul was in the Sea. So it stands to reason that the others would be too. If this is the case, In the near distant future, we are gonna run into souls who potentially have the capabilities of the Ancients.
Man I always love your videos
It's not that he wanted to stop, It's that he wanted it all to end, his suffering, the loss of it all. He wanted his painful journey to finally end.
Well done. I've never even considered things this deeply. It just makes a great character all the better. In my opinion, one of the best antagonist and all of fiction.
Why I love Shadowbringers: Emet-Selch.
Why I wanted to stay in Elpis: Emet-Selch.
Why I want an AU where Hades is part of the Scions so I can romance him....
My WOL is a catgirl, So I am thinking Azem was female in my story. I went all zeros on the sliders during character creation. I laugh every time I think of the adventures the trio had, with a petite Azem dragging Emet Selch around...
What event really sold me on him was when we defeated the final light warden. I remember him being genuinely dejected by how we were unable to contain the light and that he got his hopes up for nothing. He really did want us to succeed.
This is why I love you content not only to Learn the lore of the game I love but now you are Teaching me something I didn't realize and I think you for it❤
Very indepth video! Some of the things you mention I wasn't aware of or had forgotten. I loved him instantly but didn't know why. I guess because I was Azem. :)
He's also been in love a few times, since he did love Solus' son.
Then got reminded about the harsh realities of life as it is now. Lost a firstborn son before his time. Life often slaps you in the face more than many would care to admit.
@@acgearsandarms1343 not a newborn, since he was old enough to sire Varis, but yeah
@@Wanderingsage7 I thought you were referring to his firstborn. I’ll change it.
@@acgearsandarms1343 We don't know what his son was named.... Azem Possibly? Also, consider that he took over Solus' body... and Solus is a Sun name too.
@@ChainedFei Highly coincidental considering Solus did have history before being possessed. It’s just a Garlean thing before he even changed their society I would think. As for the firstborn, his name is largely irrelevant. Point of his firstborn was that it was a reminder of how tragic life became.
hands down one of my favorite characters
The best way I heard it put is, both Hades, and another whom we fight in Endwalker, both fights are essentially an Ancient telling you, “Prove to me that you are strong enough to relieve me of my burden.”
Hades is such a wonderful character, even though he was our enemy for so long, I came to view him as, almost a friend.. I think, the same kind of friendship, that Zenos saw in the WoL. Extraordinary writing
I doubt Emet-Selch realized the WOL was Azem until his cutscene of surprise at the end, but I suppose that is irrelevant because he would know what he was doing to that soul regardless. It is interesting to think of how Emet might have grown to hate the pain a rejoined soul might still carry and the thought of him worrying on if he could be forgiven should he succeed.
As I walked in the recreation of Amaurot, a city I never knew but felt achingly familiar, I understood. This was a man that did not want to upend good for evil, light for dark. He was a man that sought to restore his home. His live. His life. As I talked to a new old friend, I knew his weight and I understood why.
And yet I knew he had to be stopped. He was a man consumed and far more clever and dangerous than Archduke Thordan, or Nidhogg, or a god-infused Xenos. With the Exarch he had the path to upend everything and reduce all life to his will. Such a man as Hades would win in perpetuity, and that would lead to the death of all things and any other plot against the Aciams. I wanted to count Hades as a friend. I’m another life, perhaps we could have. But now, in the ends of this world only one truth held: Emet-Selch must die.
Each step was heavy and hollow as I slow walked to the capital and faced this: our final conclusion.
What always gets me is his reaction to Alisaie's speech in 'Amaurot'.
He agrees. He looks down and away, and shows *a moment* of hesitation in striking her away.
I can't watch cause I've never met this guy in game, so uh . . . Yeah. My mom did not sign the permission slip for this feels trip
Great perspective of him been trying to cause a calamity for 9000yrs. That’s pretty wild 😧
Gosh... are you trying to make me cry? 😪
There’s sign of Halone as well as the sign on the shield on Adventurer Guild banner on his palms for some reasons….
It's a fine theory, but it's unlikely he's bothered much by killed the shards of Azem. He views not only the sundered plebs with contempt, but even the sundered convocation members as well. Even Mitron admits that Emet Selch didn't care about him enough to bother going through the trouble of saving him from where he was trapped on the 1st as it'd be less effort to just leave his shard to rot and raise another one of his shards to his seat instead. An Emet Selch that cares about his sundered peers would have moved mountains to save him, no matter how much of a bother it was.
Not to mention that he was enjoying a little too much to see the WoL / Azem transform into a lightwarden
It still makes sense. He misses his friends. His Amaroutine friends. Anything less than a world fully rejoined will not qualify as “his friends” and while his loneliness complicates stuff and may empty his resolve, he never really liked anyone that was living up to Shadowbringers, and Endwalker reveals that is because Amarout exists so far in the past he literally cares only about Elidibus before the Warrior of Light proved themself worthy
HeavensWard's MSQ wrecked me ... and so did ShadowBringers >.< ... I haven't done EndWalker Yet ... I will soon
He lived a thousand thousand of our lives... this would suggest several millions of years.
One theory I really like is that one of the things that really broke Emmet-selch was the fact that we were broken before the power of the light... And then suddenly, in a flash of light and force, stood up to our full height and challenged him, and won. We rejoined with ardbert of our own free will, from a mutual agreement between the fragments of the same soul, and proved that all of his crimes were for nothing.
One of the easiest ways for a person like Hades to justify crimes against humanity is through the idea that "there is no other way." Hades truly believed that the rejoinings were the only way to make ethiris whole again, so even if his conscious was screaming at him about all the lives he was exterminating and torturing with every rejoining, he resigned himself to the shelter of his duty and told himself that it was the only way to see the world and his people restored.
But then we challenged him, and proved that he was wrong the whole time. There was another way the entire time, we just proved it right before his eyes, we rejoined ourselves without committing a genocide in the process. Which is why he's happy when he dies, because we just proved to him that the world is in good hands. Hands that are probably better suited for sheparding the star than his. Because we were able to find a way to restore the world and its people without destroying billions of lives in the process. We found a way to restore the people, and have the people genuinely happy for the experience.
We had proven him wrong, and he had never been more happy to *be* wrong.
I don’t know how people can not like Emet in all honesty he is the best
I hope we see Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus again, sooner rather than later. "If not in this life, then maybe another."
I hope so too but I kind of hope they are both reincarnated and we can just catch a glimpse of their old selves maybe ina look or attitude or eye colour. I think their old tale is done but their souls can begin anew.
there is also the brutal honest fact that they admitted they messed up the 13th world, as in even if the rest of the shards all rejoined according to plan, in the end their wish would never come true, it'd only be 12/13 pieces at max
Really hope that doesn't age like milk eventually. If 13th is hopeless,then we will probably only kill Golbez and grab Azdaja, no restoration, no balance, just that
@@DoppelgangerTH Hmmm, truthfully I don't know, can't really make that educated guess atm. If Endwalker showed us anything its that there are methods the Ancients either didn't have the capacity for or did not consider a possibility when facing specific obstacles. Maybe we'll work something up for the 13th, not to mention Zero is a very unknown/sensitive variable in all of this, I really don't think ANYthing can be done with the 13th without her heavy involvement-so where as before, even the Ancients considered the 13th un-salvageable, it might not be the case now.
Do we know for sure that the ascians were tempered by zodiark ?
I thought Souls of the caliber of emeth selch or elidibus were above that, especially considering that they weren’t trying to grow and perpetuate their primal like normal tempered, more in the contrary they were using it as a mean to get back the paradise of they lost civilization.
Emet tells you they were in an optional dialog in ShB.
Also Elidibus was the heart of Zodiark. There was not much will left there. It was all Zodiark. But yes they were tempered.
When did it mention he was tempered by zodiark…i thought the tempering only happened to the later primals due to the ascians teaching us the wrong way to summon on purpose
It wasn't mentioned in a cutscene. If you talked to him in the crystal tower he made an off handed remark about being Tempered by Zodiark. But since it was in the MSQ we need to accept what he said as canon despite the errors that creates.
Maybe zodiark wasn't meant to tempered the ancient, but it grew to strong to control and overtime he was able to do it, also maybe if elidibus was part of zodiark he was able to modify it somehow to make the others to comply....
@@riksais Yeah it's a bit of a mess. Ultimately it's something we just gotta shrug and roll with. haha
@@SynodicScribe I wish I knew what in blazes being tempered by Zodiark would even mean when Zodiark is basically just Elidibus. Zodiark is shown to be nothing but a hollow shell without someone to control the reigns. And Hydaelyn appears to have Venat's consciousness fully intact. So being tempered by Zodiark basically means being tempered by Elidibis.
@@SynodicScribe It's canon that he said that, but there are different ways to interpret the line. I took it as more of the way Tiamat was tempered by Bahamut. When your aetherial presence is that big, the effect of tempering doesn't remove your free will to the same extent that Titan tempering some random kobold does. His actions were still his choice, though he might have heard some light whispering in the background about how it would be totally awesome to rejoin the shards and make zodiark whole.
I’ve seen this many times that zodiark tempered the unsundered ascians but where was this confirmed or implied. As far as I know in Endwalker they said it was the ascians that invented tempering for the beast tribe primal. Can someone point me to a source please?
It is confirmed in shadowbringers by Emet-Selch himself. One of his direct dialogue lines in the crystal tower. He admits he is tempered. Though he seems to be like Tiamat in tempering. She still had some of her own mind and will but yet would still have been compelled to re-summon Bahamut had she been free to do so. I actually have the scene recorded where he says this but that would take some digging through a lot of videos.
@@emmajones8708 oh that would be great. Thx.
@@alexvandu1 I am not sure if this will work I am going to try and paste something here it is the Japanese translation of that exact scene. Ok cool it worked. I will still pull up my videos then I can tell you which quest it comes after.
And Zodiark is our creation.
エメトセルク : 現代の人は、神降ろしをしたり、
蛮神のエネルギーを身に受けることで、
強制的な同調……テンパード状態になるだろう？
When the people of nowadays invoke their gods, they take the primal's energies into their bodies, and are forcibly aligned… in other words, tempered, yes?
エメトセルク : 実のところ、私たちにも、同じことは起きている。
So are we.
精神への干渉こそ、いくらかは防げるが、
あれほどの存在を顕現させれば、どうしても引っ張られるのさ。
In manifesting such a massive presence, no matter how much we might try to guard against its influence on our minds, we cannot help but be drawn in eventually.
エメトセルク : 結果、アシエンはゾディアークの有する力……
In the end, we were changed by Zodiark's dark power...
「闇」とも呼ばれる、活性と激化の力に寄った存在に、
ならざるを得なかったわけだ。
We became beings of the element you call Astral Dark.
@@alexvandu1 Found it. It is the extra dialogue from the Level 76 Quest called The Best Way Out in the Occular.
You also have to respect a man who can snap his fingers with gloves on. That is not easy.
you going to cover emet again after they release the next encyclopedia?
I will cover ALL of them! (If I can.)
Lol just brushing off emet's part to play in ew is a little harsh. If its the time travel i mean at least they tied it up so it didnt ruin the story. And elpis was prolly the most interesting part of the whole expansion so im cool with it. Emet being at the forefront of an investigation he doesnt believe was a really great way to show his character. Of course its not the height of his character but he had his time to shine now he was there to give us familiarity in an alien place.
Re: tempered ascians. Can we even still claim that considering what we now know about the summoning of primals? Namely that what we know as tempering primals are just flawed/modified versions of actual primal summons. Implying that summons in general aren't tempering as a basic instinct, considering the ascians had to teach the beast tribes how to summon, and they taught them to summon *specifically* the tempering kind.
I wouldn't call his part in Endwalker nonsense, Endwalker was amazing and Emet was absolutely incredible throughout.
100% disagrees with your view on EW, but its a very good in depth video regardless :)
I think he just means the time travel nonsense that is kind of an excuse for the Emet Selch fanservice. Definitely one of my favorite parts despite that though
And this is why you can't look at it in a vacuum. Yes, if you take EW out of the equation, what you say makes sense, but the fact that even afterwards, he believed that his way was the right one, shows that he wasn't tempered by Zodiark, he truly believed in it. Which is a big reason why he refuses to be brought back, the world we cherish is not the world he loved. He did truly belief in his cause, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't exhausted, two things can be true at the same time. He did not regret his actions, he regret having to leave Elidibus behind, who in the grand scheme of the ancients was basically a child... A lost, confused child who was all alone and left with a momentous task, the weight that Hades had to hold for so long... so he helped us put him to rest. And let us not pretend like their plans had no merit at all, considering that Emet's evaluation of us was correct, we are weak, we are petty, we are monstrous beasts, most of which would rather stab each other in the back then sacrifice themselves for the other, We and the Scions and our friends are the exceptions to this rule. Heck, even the Grand Companies were guilty of this until we came along and hand-held them to the correct conclusions. And if not for them, we would have not even been able to STALL the Final Days, we all would have perished had simply Elidibus or Hades told us to go fuck ourselves... which they had every right to.
'You think yourself worthy to replace us, to become the true stewards of the star? Then deal with the Final Days the way we had to, blind. Figure it out on your own.'
The thing is: the Ancients weren't worthy as stewards of the star either. In an interview, Yoshi-P states with certainty that they would have eventually brought about the star's doom once they had achieved "perfection." And their crass belief that they had the right to create and destroy life on a whim was and is, disgusting. Creating concepts, living beings, some even sapient, because it had become a FAD to do so? Making sapient beings without the ability to speak? They would be "fixed" of course, but all those PEOPLE were going to be killed. It was the way of Elpis. What right do they have to judge Mankind, when they still engage in petty cruelty... justifying it to themselves that these were not "real" beings?
@@TheSuperRatt Because they were right, they weren't beings. That is like, let us say either drawing or programming a character, that thing is your creation, but if you don't like it, you will try to make it better or simply delete it and start a new project.
These things were MADE not born, but created. And we aren't talking about the same process of like giving birth, nah. They sat down at a table, decided; 'Why not give sharks legs, that sounds cool!' Then they come up with the concept, it is reviewed and then made in elpis to see if it is worthy to exist.
And as much as I love Yoshi, I would ask him how and why this perfection would have caused the destruction of the star, perhaps the answer will be revealed in the raid, but so far, not convinced.
@@imaran1303 go look at the final area of the dead ends dungeon, the parallels to the ancients are obvious. Oh yeah, and read the notes too. They have lore.
@@rachelkelley5930 Are there parallels between those people and the ancients? Sure. But it isn't the same. The ancients HAD 'strife'. They just knew how to deal with it properly, though intellectual debate. They had death. And it wasn't seen as something desirable, but a end to your duties.
@@imaran1303 I never said they were the same, but that is where the ancients were headed once they reached perfection. Not yet maybe, but inevitably it would happen. Also no, they didn’t understand how to deal with strife properly, Hermes being Hermes is proof of that.
So If/When Hades and Hythlodeus reincarnate will they be able to do creation magic since their souls weren't sundered?
Hythlodeus was part of Zodiark, and Zodiark was sundered, therefore Hythlodeus will also be sundered. As for Hades, his soul will likely remain powerful even in his next life, but with no affinity for Dynamis.
@@SynodicScribe but when we summoned him in Ultima Thule he used creation magic with Hades to create the Elpis Flowers, sundered souls can't use pure creation magic, plus according to Hades the sundered people that were around immediately after the sundering didn't remember the world before
@@dakotadoyle7573 It was Hades that used the spell in the cutscene remember? lol
@@SynodicScribe Question,if the "core" of zodiark in the source died,what you think happened to his parts in the reflections? did the die as well? and if so, follow up question, is the aetherial sea the same between the source and the reflections like,are they connected? cause if so, maybe all the shards of the people stuck inside zodiark rejoined in the aetherial sea,as all of them died at the same time
@@Ghanzza The easy answer with Zodiark's pieces at the shards is we don't know. Given how tightly their aether is tied together his lingering power could very well still be part of the shards, but now it'd just be another part of that shard's aether. Also no, each shard has it's own aetherial realm. Imagine them as self contained worlds existing along side the source.
It makes you wonder, though. See, the names "Azem", "Emmet-Selch", "Lahabrea", aren't personal names, they're titles of office. Like, Venat was "Azem" before the person who the WoL is supposed to resemble. So, how would Emmet-Selch know his friend from the person the WoL resembles, or Venat? How do we know the Lahabrea we meet in Pandaemonium and Erichthonio's father isn't the same Lahabrea we fight with after the Ultima Weapon?
I miss him, bros...
Emet-Selch did nothing wrong.
I said it.
Lyse wasn’t even a one note character
yeah, and I personally struggled with that storyline. The character of Minfilia meant something to me personally, so I really hoped beyond hope she would come back. jfc, I still tear up, lol
2:20 ''But before we move forward, I want it to be known that i'm gonna address this character without all the Endwalker nonsense that involve Emet-Selch. And anyone who has played the expansion, you know exactly what I mean''
What none sense? I've played Endwalker and I don't even have the slightest clue what you mean. Can you or someone perhaps care to explain?
It's a disclaimer. Meaning people can freely listen this video without having played Endwalker. I wouldn't read to heavily into it. lol
One thing I don’t get - why are all the regular people in the reflections the antithesis of the ancients? They’re all a portion of the soul of an original ancient, why don’t they share any of the views and values of the ancients? The WOL comes close but they are just one person. Their society does not reflect that of the ancients at all. It reminds me of Genesis where an “original sin” has corrupted everyone and made them subject to death, and the only way to be made whole is come “come back” to the source, God, whatever you want to call it. I also don’t understand what makes the ascians believe that everyone will suddenly behave like ancient when they are made whole.
for the love of god let me come fix your house. this.... this hurts me.
One thing I love pointing out when people talk about how bad Emet Selch was, was that G'raha and the Iron Works team were no better. They intended their timeline to disappear. A time line which existed for a further 200 years. 200 of years of lives and the rebuilding of civilization wiped out because they wanted to remake the world the way it used to be because they saw it as a morally better world. I'm glad we got the short story showing they were wrong, but that was in no way their intention. Its 200 years vs 12000 years, makes you realise that for the Ascians at first they probably thought the same was Iron Works did
200 years of rebuilding so amazing those sitting at the top with access to technology that made Emet-Selch go wtf would rather erase themselves and try again then go on.
@@menosay1912 i hadn't even thought of that! they freakin figured out how to cross not only the rift but also travel through time and use the power of the crystal tower, the tower which allowed the Allegans to live carefree due to the amount of power it produced but NOPE. Toss it in the bin.
@@siyrean Yeah, things were so great in that timeline that toss it in the bin and start over was a better option for them.
I wonder how much of his plan was his own, and how much was Zodiark's tempering compelling him.
"Remember us."
"I will." "I will remember the folly of you and yours." "I will remember the deaths. The potentially billions of innocent people you subjugated, enslaved... the people you murdered." "I will remember the blood on your hands, red as the mask you hide behind. A stain for each star you destroyed." "I will remember how you and your ILK were too frightened, too insecure to face the fact! That when all was said and done, your high and mighty civilization destroyed itself!" "I will remember, and I will see to it *personally* that our history makes no mention of yours." "I will bear the *burden* of this knowledge alone, so no one else has to." "I will be glad to know that my death will mark the end of your people's story."
"Now, join your brothers in oblivion... and be forgotten."
When that scene played out before my eyes in Shadowbringers, I had to pause it and say my piece.
I remember thinking that Emet and it's brethren could have put their vaunted power and knowledge to GOOD use. To help the new worlds thrive, but instead they killed so many.
Such a waste.
All of the above was my sentiment then... and after Endwalker, it is *still* the way I feel.
Back then, I had suspected that the Ancients destroyed themselves, and it was gratifying in a macabre sort of way, to find that I was right. The Ancients' callous disregard for the sanctity of life lead one of their own to create the means of their civilization's end... Oh, and not JUST their own end, but their creation brought about the end of almost all life in EXISTENCE!
As far as the supposed "friendship" that Emet had with Azem... I just don't see it. Emet and it's enabler, Hythlodeus weren't at all the kind of creatures that I would associate myself with. Emet's foul attitude, flippant remarks about the animals in Elpis, Hythlodeus' constant defending and excusing his friend's behavior-- The whole dynamic between the two was jarring and seemed more like an abusive relationship more than anything. I get that some people might find that endearing, but frankly... I found them both insufferable.
Indeed, thanks to the way their "friendship" was portrayed in-game, my Azem (Baphomet) was always going off to other places around the globe, not *entirely* because of his position, but just to stay the hell away from.... those two.
In this character, I see a beautifully written, *masterfully* performed (Wow, these facts cannot be understated. Well done, Rene Zagger!), but still very much, horrific monster.
It gets no sympathy from me.
It gets no redemption.
It deserves no happy ending.
It is simply, *the best villain* ever written for a Final Fantasy game.
A monster with a diseased mind that must be put down in a most brutal fashion. And that makes me very happy.
*That* is what I enjoy about Emet-Selch. :-)
Good thing you're not the self insert Warrior of Light in sooth, then. Because holy shit, that was some of the most hateful shit I've seen written in a while. The Scions wouldn't even let you join their organization if you're constantly spewing vitriol like that, heroes don't do that. Also, Hydaelyn/Venat did worse, if for better reasons. It is stated directly by Yoshi-P in the recent Q&A that she was truly an ancient like the rest, and she was the one who let Emet and the rest escape unsundered, because it was essential to ensure the future she saw come to pass. So in summary, Venat is equally culpable in every sundered life Ascians took.
"ow the edge" in one comment
I regret to inform you that the feeling is not mutual, mortal.
At least I tell the many stories of our star instead of making cheap knock offs Hades!
Yea... that was a lot of BS... sorry
Yeah, I'm kinda the worst.
You lost me at EW hades "nonsense" and "bad". What?
I'm not talking about Endwalker for spoilers reasons. We got a lot of new players lately! I can't help it if everyone automatically assuming the worst of me. lol
@@SynodicScribe You could begin by choosing words without a negative connotation, if that isn't your opinion. You aren't doing these videos at a whim, right? You do write a script, going through edits and revisions? It doesn't really matter to me, but you did have a long time to choose your diction, unless you film your videos ad hoc.
@@SynodicScribe But when are things not considered ''spoilers'' any more enough for you to talk about it? Like there will always be new players who haven't fully done the MSQ yet and I believe it's their responsibility to not look up lore online if they don't wanna get spoiled. I avoided your channel and many others like the plague before I finished EW so to not get accidentally spoiled. Now I can freely watch your stuff and I think your content is amazing and i'm glad I can finally check it out
I would really like a video or something to just hear your point about why it's ''nonsense'' because really, I have no clue what you were talking about so hearing other's perspectives would be great