Sorry for the audio on the shifters guys, they do not sound like that, they sound much better and crisp....... also let me know what you want me to do for the build? fdull cheap build or more mainstream build?
As an experience users of these Chinese products, I highly recommend you don't use the BB that comes with the crankset. Machining is good but the bearing quality is awful. I've used Zrace, Fovno, Litepro, Jiankun and others and they all have the same quality BB. I still buy their cranks over other known western/japanese brands but I always replace the bearing with NTN or SKF bearings.
Hey mr @GC Performance.. ive been running the srx pro ( the 1x ... 11t 52t rear 46 front) 1000 miles in faultless.. same spider crank arm's... love to see how this works for you...! I have #fake grevil frame coming from ali expess, £600 painted and sent il let you know how it goes 👍
The little peg on the chainring does not go against the crank for support; it's to keep your chain from getting jammed between them if it derails. They've been in use for decades.
A few things to note about the weight. 105 weight is for an 11-speed 28-tooth cassette and 50/34 crank and is not inclusive of a bottom bracket or rotors either. A 105 32 tooth cassette would add 95 grams, a 53/39 chainring would add 44 grams, 105 rotors 242 grams and a threaded 105 BB would add 77 grams. So that's an extra 458 grams on top of the 2478 grams listed, so a true like-for-like comparison would be 11 Speed 105 at 2936 grams vs 12 speed Sensah at 2740 grams. In the UK, the full hydraulic 11-speed 105 groupset is priced at £800 without rotors or a BB, vs Sensah Empire hybrid break 12-speed with Rotors and a BB at £366, plus taxes and import fees looking at around £450 in total. Half the price for 12-speed, 196-gram weight saving but slightly worse braking performance. If Sensah can get full hydraulic and keep the whole package ~£500, Shimano is in trouble. Still, even now it really is terrific value for money.
They're really not in trouble unless these components start getting spec'd by the major bike companies. The majority of cyclists buy a bike and never replace anything but chains, cassettes and brake pads. They're not building bikes from a frame
@@VincentVanWersch good mechanical brakes with compressionless housing is very good. I have a $10k disc brake road bike with cabled brakes because I hate hydraulic hoods. The thing is great and I live in the mountains in Utah
I got about 4000 miles on my Sensah Ignite 9 speed shifting a 10 speed cassette. Still working strong. Shifting quality seems about the same as the other bikes that I have with Shimano, Campy and Microshift.
Happy to see Sensah getting some recognition! I've been trying the Chinese components and frames for a while now. I've built up two Sensah Empire bikes and it's a very solid groupset. Sourced the mini group for less than $150. I used very similar brakes from Juin Tech and they work pretty well with some good compressionless cable housings. There's other UA-camrs out there running this groupset with fully internal frames as well, one dude on a Scott Addict. Word on the street is the fully hydraulic version is on its way 😁
I'm Sensah Empire 11spd on 2 bikes and no issues in 2 years, 6000+km... There are some UA-camrs reviewing this stuff and winning races on it... no issue for me!
What frames have you tried so far? I'm planning to do a build from scratch next year, so started to figure out what kind of frames compatible with disc brakes are available on Ali
I challenge you to a $3000 build. You seem to have connections with Winspace and Elite, so Winspace frame + Elite carbon wheels + Sensah groupset will bring you near that, but add some relatively cheap handlebars, stem and saddle and some GP5000s + pedals and I think you'll be just north of $3000.
I ride Winspace Hyper 50 wheels. I have a lot of experience with Zipp, Campag, Shimano, Reynolds and other wheels. The Winspace wheels beat everyone of these other brands in every way by a long way and I am saying this after around 7000km on these wheels.
From my experience with "Aliexpress components" the BB and Chain will function fine but won't last nearly as long, the pads in the calipers will suck, swapping them for banded ones will be a marked improvement and, the rotors look pro but perform more entry level. Everything else will behave at around what you would expect from 105/Rival. I have no dealings with those Cranks but I purchased a set of the CVR/Z-Race Hardrock cranks arms for my old Gravel bike in the first lock-down, and they performed so well over the last 2 years I just paired a set with GRX on my new Gravel build. If anything ever goes wrong with the 105 cranks on my road bike I wouldn't hesitate.
@@bnp4292 You can do this. IF, the cups are machined inline/square, and the material the cups are made of is decent. With 24 mm "Shimano" style cranks and BSA BBs you should fit a 1mm spacer each side (Nukepoof make them) as the Chinese ones only come in MTB widths.
I'm not a huge road bike person (though I do appreciate them), I am more on the mountain bike end of the spectrum, but this is seriously intriguing to me. Sensah is making the same moves in Mountain biking. Lots of people are talking about 13 speed groupsets, and Sensah has one. I've been seriously considering buying one to put on a build to see how it runs. I hadn't heard about ex-Sram engineers starting the company, but their shifters and derailleurs do look suspiciously similar. I'm in for this series, to see how it all turns out!
yea I am excited myself I miss the nostalgic snap of the shifters and how they work so I cant wait to get this put onto a bike myself, 13 speeds seems like a fuggg ton, but who knows I am sure 5 years from now shimano will come out with a new 13 speed group and I will make a video on how hot it is lol
Please compare this cassette to a 12 speed AXS cassette, looks like a great option for people to retain HG freehubs. I'm wondering if it has different spacing/pitch.
@@Llamabanger there was a thread on WW recently where people are mixing and matching. I have ordered one of these cheap 12 speed cassettes and an AXS cassette, as no one else is doing it I will do it for myself at least. I want to use HG hubs on rim brake wheels, have no interest in XDR or a 10T cog.
I'm using LTWOO 9 & 12 speed group set for almost a year now and pretty good for 100$ each set and they're still covered with warranty And last month my jockey wheel for 9 speed derailleur snap in half and I ask to the company if i can claim warranty for the jockey wheel and they said yes and they will sent it to me and after a week I got surprised because they sent me a whole derailleur instead of just replacement jockey wheel and it's free Now i got a spare derailleur
Nice to see another content creator using/buying mainstream Chinese products. Choice drives competition which is great to see and for the most part you no longer need to worry about products failing at a reasonable price point. I think you should go the whole way and make a complete bike build using Chinese products only.
I purchased my first Chinese crankset and BB (BB brand was Jian Kun, probably crank as well?), it has the direct mount chainring, like SRAM, but a 24mm hollow spindle like Shimano. I bought it two years ago, and just cleaned it up today, and it has held up great, no creaks, bearings still smooth, narrow wide chainring showing minimal wear. I use it on a hardtail and ride blue, red and the occasional black diamond trails. I wondered if I would regret the purchase, and so far, nope.
Cool video, I do have a comment on the 105 and force 22 comparisons. 1. the weights you stated are for the rim brake variants (both force and 105). The disc brake versions weigh considerably more. 2. The force 22 is not 12 speed. It is the "old" mechanical 11 speed (2*11=22, hence the name force22). this was a crazy light groupset for the price in 2012-2013. Looking forward to see the build and i'm also very grateful for giving attention to these parts and not being another youtube channel shoving 2k+ groupsets down our throats as the only viably options. Yesterday i read the new 105 di2 was also going to cost just south of 2k! keep up the good work!
I've been using sensah Shifters n derailleur since the first version of 11 speed ... My bike has flip n land on the derailleur... It still work till today.. Love the one click n 2 click system.
The ZRace RX crankset didn't give me any trouble, however their chainrings are crap. I installed it new with 2 new KMC X11 chains - both are still well within spec while the 52t chainring is completely shot, shark teeth, after just one season. On the bright side, it's standard 110bcd 5bolt, so replacements are cheap and plenty.
Just subscribed to see the final product. I'm wanting to build an endurance bike and will be piecing the bike together and I'm very curious concerning the Ali express merch
so I pushed it all together and i gave an update to it, but It didnt go the way I planned it, I bought a velobuild bike that looked like a pinarello and I got an email form pinarello saying to take down the video, so I had too but I gave an update video on the bike itself, as for right now I have gave the bike to a friend who needed a bike and the group is lasting great, the only thing I will say is the brakes are horible, they need nicer calipers for sure
My first bike was Alcott Zagato Team a Chinese brand bike with Ultregra group set an aero bike. not a bad bike … used it for 3 month …. climb hills & descent hills very well …it’s everyone first bike here in part of South East Asia …
I fully agree. No matter what you do, the cable to brake lever ratio at the calliper will always result in bad brake modulation. Definitely worse than a rim brake and worse than a hydro disc brake. TRP Spyres are OK. But also not great. With these semi hydros I wonder whether the brake fluid would severely overheat on long descents.
I'm new to cycling so I got a beginner bike. The bike comes with a groupset from Sensah. I've only swapped out the rotors cause I upgraded my wheelset to a centerlock type. I've put about 5000 kms on it now and the only issues I had is I fell once, broke the RD hangar and some of the bolts have slightly rusted. Other than the occasional indexing, its pretty crisp.
The point is that neither Shimano or Sram offer a 12 speed mechanical groupset. If you want mechanical with either, its only available in 11 speed only. That is the benefit of the Sensah groupset unless you go to Campy but then it would be like going from a Yugo to a Benz comparison in terms of pricing.
great vid, I'd like to see a budget build with one of the carbon fiber Chinese frames. this is something I've been thinking about just to see how it works.
I have a fairly identical set-up on an older steel Fondriest frame. Empire 11s with the same crankset, same chain and a Z-Race DUB bottom bracket with italian thread. Works quite fine. I'd say it's good value for money. 👍
I bought Sensah Empire Pro derailleur and shifters from AliExpress two years ago. Unfortunately they don't make breaks. The third party breaks they bundle with it didn't appeal to me besides I needed direct mount rim breaks. I was unable to get the front derailleur to work reliably. I took it to a bike shop and they didn't make it work any better. It would work on the bike stand but not when I rode it. I'm pretty sure it was a cable tension problem but I'm incompetent with this type of thing. I also didn't think 12 speeds gave me any benefit. I eventually gave up and got Shimano Ultegra derailleurs and shifters. But the price and weight of the Sensah Empire Pro group set is fantastic. The ZRace crank that came with it is great. I got a power meter for it too that works fine.
Same here - swapped the front derailleur with 105s. And works perfectly with sensah rear ones!! The sensah front needed so much tension and no barrel adjuster either.
I'd love to try out the entire groupset, but from experience one shortcoming of the "cheap china" stuff has been cassettes and chains. Parts I've bought the tolerances suck and everything feels clicky and misaligned.
11:49 that 'nub' is not there for support, it's there to catch the chain from falling between the crank and the ring. It also should help bring the chain back onto the ring while racing. I'd just stop to prevent damage while on a normal ride though.
Off-topic a little bit, I have a similar-ish story about runners (shoes). I'm a triathlete and would spend crazy amounts on getting the right premium shoes (for my fragile, easy to injure legs), and a history of years of injury treatment to go along with all that. Anything up to and including Asics Kayano, etc. My average weekly mileage is between 60 and 100 miles. I now live in Shenzhen, China, and as an experiment I ordered a pair of USD$7.50 runners from a factory (that had similar specs than my MUCH more expensive shoes), and after feeling perfect on a couple of test runs, switched to those cheap shoes are all I run in, and basically three years later never get injured (no more than expensive shoes anyway). Bottom line is the "famous" brands charge ridiculous amounts for their name.
It will be interesting to see your evaluation after you build the group into a bike. I think Oz cycle did a review on the Yoleo and I think it was a very positive review. As I watch your video I was talking myself into building another bike to add to my stable. Upgrading to disc brake, thru-axle, and going back to a shorter crank length are all reasons I would build another bike.
It's good to see they included a wavy washer with that crank. Mine didn't come with one, and I ended up needing it to properly preload the BB bearings. Also, your spider bolts look like regular torx bolts? Mine were security torx bolts (with a pin in the middle), which I didn't have the required bit for, so I ended up buying some SRAM bolts to replace them.
I would like to see you do a winspace build . I have built Yoel wood R11 with 105 rim brake and used ican wheels. I am considering doing a disc brake. Keen to see your build goes 👍
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I want to build something with Sensah Empire Pro shifters. What's nice about them is that they can actuate a gravel rear derailleur. So, I want to build a 1x road/light gravel bike, with 38 teeth, narrow wide in front, and the 11-39, 12-speed, Rotor cassette. That's all that my old knees can push. I'm going to mix chinese components with big brands ones, what I economise on shifters will go on a nice cassette. Waiting for more reviews of those calipers, though.
I'd love to see these on a 'mid end' frame with the whole bike costing in the range of 2-3k USD as I think that would be a rough pricepoint for the people that may be thinking of using this groupset :D
My mechanic scuffs at anything lower than Durace mechanical. Imagine if I brought this to the shop. He will send me right out with that empire business lol 😂
there are a lot of bike mechanics like this, (i know a bunch of them) its jsut how I think we were brought up, when I first started in a store I was the same way, but times are changing
I am only wondering where/how you get replacement components after a while. Cassettes wear out. Do you order them in China again or replace it with Shimano? Also, currently I ride a Trek Domane 2 disc version. Will it work if I just go for the shifters, cassette and derailleur?
Running a Sensah RD/shifter + Zrace crankset + Juintech combo on my gravel bike, it's already perfect for my needs. I absolutely loved the double tap system so I switched the sensah shifter into sram apex 1 hrd shifter, works perfectly on sensah srx pro rd. Sram full hydro shifter + sensah is my semi end game setup for now until sensah release their full hydro sensah groupset
Went for this crankset. Everything fine except for the fact that the big chainring didn't have countersunk bolts. Substituted an FSA ring...all well. But totally disappointed that something so simple to do..... was simply ignored....
It’ll be very interesting to hear your expert opinion on the build and how the group set performs. I’ve got to say, from what I’ve seen so far, that the Sensah parts look equivalent to mainstream parts from 15 to 20 years ago in terms of technology, design, manufacturing and attention to detail. The 3 mainstream guys need some serious competition to bring the prices down and the supply back to where it should be. Unfortunately the Sensah at this point isn’t at the level yet - maybe after another few years they’ll get there. Looking forward to the rest of the review - keep up the good work.!
Mechanical group prices haven't gone up unreasonably from the big three. Electronic is only now being adopted in big numbers but they're a luxury item and don't have an old market to compare to. But even the cheapest electronic groups are better than the first gen Di2 but for less money. As for Sensah, it's quite nice for the money. Definitely better than Ultegra from 15yrs ago
Well I think Sensah is a real good option in todays market. For me for example as a student I cant affort state of the art bikes upwards of 2k, let alone a groupset for 1,8k. But with Sensah I feel you can build a more budget friendly bike. Im almosted finished with my Sensah SRX 1x11 disc brake gravel build with thru axles and up to 42 mm tubeless wheels and barely spent 800€. Note that I bought the wheelset used but still I couldnt think of any other possibility to get a decent state of the art gravel bike with such performance and looks for sub 1k.. If you buy these cheap bikes form the hardware store for the same money you`ll get a heavy piece of steel.. On my roadbike the Sensah 2x11 set has lasted me already over 2000km and is still performing flawless so I think we should stop judging them as something that bad expcept obv. the stolen IP from SRAM maybe..
Install the Sensah Empire on an S-Works Tarmac or Aethos for shit and giggles. Seriously what better way to test and compare how good Sensah is by installing it on a frame you are very familiar with. Then have Tarmac and Aethos owners with Shimano, SRAM, Campagnolo groupsets. A - B test the same bike with Sensah Empire. This would be a fair comparison don’t you think?
My brother use that the shifting is nice it feels like the old version of ultegras. but the down side is the durability the RD bend when they climb the hardest mountain in my area max gradient is 29%
I am rooting for these new bike grouppos to become more widespread as it should help competition and benifit consumers (although I hope that China is not dumping these on the world market in an unfair move). Chinese electronic will really catch peoples attention (and Empire Pro must go fully hydraulic).
It amazes me how much bicycles cost nowadays, given that almost all parts are all manufactured off-shore in mainland China and Taiwan. A brand new mid-level race bike build can be attainable for all people at $3000, including carbon frameset, full groupset, carbon wheelset and finishing kit, but instead the brands are selling it at double this price. Cycling should be a more accessible activity/sport and it sucks when brands are increasing prices well above reason. Would love to see more content on affordable options for everyday cyclists. It doesn't have to be cheap knock-offs or replicas, but perhaps manufacturers who are genuinely trying to grow their own customer base. I've experienced excellent communication and service with Winspace, Farsports and Velobuild, who respond much faster to my questions than any of the major Western brands.
With the exception of SRAM, top groupsets come from Japan (Shimano) or Italy (Campagnolo). If anything, it's SRAM that's actually overpriced when they charge similar to first world nations products from Shimano and Campagnolo.
@@GCPerformance18 I understand that you used the charts provided on the groupset comparison website. It's wrong. I just checked. I was sure because I've installed this groupset on a bike 2 months ago. If you go to bike radar it has a part to part breakdown of the groupset. Just added up the weights for the disc brake version of 105 (r7000 or r7020) and it adds up to 2732 (with calipers and rotors). Sometimes, these charts are wrong.
if bike were subsidised like cars instead of what state it is at right now, bikes and bike aprts would have been much much cheaper and more affordable that even an 8 year old kid's bike would have XTR level groupset on
super interesting content! would be interesting to see a comparable build bike to something more mainstream you have and then do some back-to-back runs and compare power inputs etc... to see impact of 'quality' to the ride etc... Either way, keep up the great content dude
Fact : Giant is the OEM for 85% of all carbon frames made for the brand names you see out there. Taiwan is where most of the higher end Carbon frames are made at the Giant bicycle corporation factories there. There is only a tiny amount of Frames ( Track Frames mostly) that are actually made outside of Asia. For my single ChainRing bike I only use Stone rings, there is nothing out there like them with the superior Wide narrow teeth.
Very nice! Considering the price, you could easily throw in a sroad or ztto cassette for 100g weight savings. The brakes are objectively the worst part of the build. Make sure to use compressionless brake housing. Trace Velo already did a review on the whole groupset and the brakes. I myself have TRP HY/RD brakes (semi hydraulic) on my gravel bike, and I find them great, so these systems can work really well. Considering the build, build it on something that doesn't have fully internal cables, because everything is cable actuated here. ( it will be far easier for you to build it, and it may perform a little bit better)
I actually built a 100% Chinese branded bike just to spite the common wisdom (excl. tires and derailleur housing) It’s awesome. As good as a SL7? Highly doubt it. But I’d say it gets you 80% there for 20% of the price, and more bike than my legs can make use of. A lot of good Chinese brands coming up these days. It’s like Korean products in the ‘90s. Same “Made in Korea” stigma. Eventually a handful of Korean brands found there way up and are now known for quality manufacturing. This story is playing out now in China. Not to knock the majors. They made awesome stuff. It’s just that there are options for those wanting performance, but have budget considerations.
Not for nothing, Sensah only does derailleurs and shifters. It sources cranks from a brand called Senic X, and OSPWs from a brand called LingMai. They use rebranded cassettes. Maybe Sunshine - I’m not sure. They don’t have any official supplier of calipers, etc. So, usually some b-grade brakes are thrown in. This is why on AliX, when looking for Sensah, you’ll notice that aside from the shifters and derailleurs, the other parts provided are all over the place. ZRACE is sort of a bike parts General Store, and just rebrands stuff from other OEMs. Another store almost exactly like it is ZTTO. They are good if you don’t want to scour AliX for little parts.
You will find the rear cassette shifts well to start with, then it will degrade in performance quite quickly, this is due to not having the shifting ramps that better known cassettes have.
Seems like you're really paying for the shifters and derailleurs. The calipers/rotors/chain/cassette/crank are just a random assortment the sellers put together to make a whole kit.
yeah, thought that too, so essentially you wanna replace everything except shifters+derailleurs which rises the question whether one really want's to pay pretty much the same for something that has very remote service capabilities and is far from "tried and tested".
@@wolf.himmler Ya, I wouldn't really bother with a lot of the filler kit. The chain is pretty much trash, calipers not so hot, and the crankset/BB setup has very mixed reviews. Something like Shimano's non-series RS510 crank, Avid mechanicals, basic Shimano M6100 chain, etc, are going to be headache free budget options. The cassette you may have to live with. I don't know of any good budget 12spd road cassette. I suspect SunRace may one day make one, but that's not here yet.
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Sorry for the audio on the shifters guys, they do not sound like that, they sound much better and crisp....... also let me know what you want me to do for the build? fdull cheap build or more mainstream build?
As an experience users of these Chinese products, I highly recommend you don't use the BB that comes with the crankset. Machining is good but the bearing quality is awful. I've used Zrace, Fovno, Litepro, Jiankun and others and they all have the same quality BB. I still buy their cranks over other known western/japanese brands but I always replace the bearing with NTN or SKF bearings.
Do a cheap Chinese build I did one and they are really interesting some janky bits my road bike was 800 for the whole build full carbon
I'd love to see a whole cheap build.
Hey mr @GC Performance.. ive been running the srx pro ( the 1x ... 11t 52t rear 46 front) 1000 miles in faultless.. same spider crank arm's... love to see how this works for you...! I have #fake grevil frame coming from ali expess, £600 painted and sent il let you know how it goes 👍
Pics on my stava
I love this man because compared to most pretentious bike shop owner/employee he's just bro who likes bikes I love him
Yup
100%!!!
Can I get an Amen!
The little peg on the chainring does not go against the crank for support; it's to keep your chain from getting jammed between them if it derails. They've been in use for decades.
Fact 👍👍🏻
Pleased I'm not the only one who noticed that.
A few things to note about the weight. 105 weight is for an 11-speed 28-tooth cassette and 50/34 crank and is not inclusive of a bottom bracket or rotors either. A 105 32 tooth cassette would add 95 grams, a 53/39 chainring would add 44 grams, 105 rotors 242 grams and a threaded 105 BB would add 77 grams. So that's an extra 458 grams on top of the 2478 grams listed, so a true like-for-like comparison would be 11 Speed 105 at 2936 grams vs 12 speed Sensah at 2740 grams.
In the UK, the full hydraulic 11-speed 105 groupset is priced at £800 without rotors or a BB, vs Sensah Empire hybrid break 12-speed with Rotors and a BB at £366, plus taxes and import fees looking at around £450 in total. Half the price for 12-speed, 196-gram weight saving but slightly worse braking performance. If Sensah can get full hydraulic and keep the whole package ~£500, Shimano is in trouble. Still, even now it really is terrific value for money.
But do we need the hassle of fully hydraulic instead of this easy to handle hybrid system?
I think it's pretty elegant this way.
They're really not in trouble unless these components start getting spec'd by the major bike companies. The majority of cyclists buy a bike and never replace anything but chains, cassettes and brake pads. They're not building bikes from a frame
@@VincentVanWersch good mechanical brakes with compressionless housing is very good. I have a $10k disc brake road bike with cabled brakes because I hate hydraulic hoods. The thing is great and I live in the mountains in Utah
I got about 4000 miles on my Sensah Ignite 9 speed shifting a 10 speed cassette. Still working strong. Shifting quality seems about the same as the other bikes that I have with Shimano, Campy and Microshift.
Been running the Sensah 10 speed shifters for a few thousand miles and haven't had any complaints so far. Thanks for the video!
Happy to see Sensah getting some recognition!
I've been trying the Chinese components and frames for a while now. I've built up two Sensah Empire bikes and it's a very solid groupset. Sourced the mini group for less than $150. I used very similar brakes from Juin Tech and they work pretty well with some good compressionless cable housings. There's other UA-camrs out there running this groupset with fully internal frames as well, one dude on a Scott Addict.
Word on the street is the fully hydraulic version is on its way 😁
The guy on the Scott is Francis Cade he has just ridden a few 1000km on it last week
I'm Sensah Empire 11spd on 2 bikes and no issues in 2 years, 6000+km... There are some UA-camrs reviewing this stuff and winning races on it... no issue for me!
My LTWOO R7 10-speed is almost 3 years old now. Chinese groupsets are great tools
What frames have you tried so far? I'm planning to do a build from scratch next year, so started to figure out what kind of frames compatible with disc brakes are available on Ali
@@dainiusvysniauskas2049 go get one of the trifox frames directly from their site. 2 years warranty and really cool products
I challenge you to a $3000 build. You seem to have connections with Winspace and Elite, so Winspace frame + Elite carbon wheels + Sensah groupset will bring you near that, but add some relatively cheap handlebars, stem and saddle and some GP5000s + pedals and I think you'll be just north of $3000.
Fairly easy to do. I build a velobuild frame with full 105 hydraulic, elite wheels for under 2k
@@jasonprice4634 beat me to it.
Done it under $3000 as well. And that it in Canadian $. Lol
I ride Winspace Hyper 50 wheels. I have a lot of experience with Zipp, Campag, Shimano, Reynolds and other wheels. The Winspace wheels beat everyone of these other brands in every way by a long way and I am saying this after around 7000km on these wheels.
I can confirm that! Best wheels I ever had!
From my experience with "Aliexpress components" the BB and Chain will function fine but won't last nearly as long, the pads in the calipers will suck, swapping them for banded ones will be a marked improvement and, the rotors look pro but perform more entry level. Everything else will behave at around what you would expect from 105/Rival.
I have no dealings with those Cranks but I purchased a set of the CVR/Z-Race Hardrock cranks arms for my old Gravel bike in the first lock-down, and they performed so well over the last 2 years I just paired a set with GRX on my new Gravel build. If anything ever goes wrong with the 105 cranks on my road bike I wouldn't hesitate.
Chinese bb shells use standard bearing sizes unlike big brands who use non standard bearings.... just put some SFK, NSK, NTN in there and you´re done
@@bnp4292 You can do this. IF, the cups are machined inline/square, and the material the cups are made of is decent. With 24 mm "Shimano" style cranks and BSA BBs you should fit a 1mm spacer each side (Nukepoof make them) as the Chinese ones only come in MTB widths.
I was running a Sensah 2*8 with a Shimano 105 (1055) for more than 1000km, last year - NO issues... still running.
thats awesome!! I have not seen there 2x8 but sounds releiable from what ur telling me
I'm not a huge road bike person (though I do appreciate them), I am more on the mountain bike end of the spectrum, but this is seriously intriguing to me. Sensah is making the same moves in Mountain biking. Lots of people are talking about 13 speed groupsets, and Sensah has one. I've been seriously considering buying one to put on a build to see how it runs. I hadn't heard about ex-Sram engineers starting the company, but their shifters and derailleurs do look suspiciously similar. I'm in for this series, to see how it all turns out!
yea I am excited myself I miss the nostalgic snap of the shifters and how they work so I cant wait to get this put onto a bike myself, 13 speeds seems like a fuggg ton, but who knows I am sure 5 years from now shimano will come out with a new 13 speed group and I will make a video on how hot it is lol
I did a similar build with a Trifox X16 frame.I had a Trex emonda and I honestly love the Trifox
Please compare this cassette to a 12 speed AXS cassette, looks like a great option for people to retain HG freehubs. I'm wondering if it has different spacing/pitch.
He doesn't even show the back of the cassette, design materials of most parts, but constantly mentioning of price over and over...
@@Llamabanger there was a thread on WW recently where people are mixing and matching. I have ordered one of these cheap 12 speed cassettes and an AXS cassette, as no one else is doing it I will do it for myself at least. I want to use HG hubs on rim brake wheels, have no interest in XDR or a 10T cog.
Love the music. That's chill after a long days work.
Jazz baby
glad you reviewed this, groupset and bike prices have gotten insane and the more competition the better
You going to make a superbike with winspace slc cuz its hella light?
I'm using LTWOO 9 & 12 speed group set for almost a year now and pretty good for 100$ each set and they're still covered with warranty
And last month my jockey wheel for 9 speed derailleur snap in half and I ask to the company if i can claim warranty for the jockey wheel and they said yes and they will sent it to me and after a week I got surprised because they sent me a whole derailleur instead of just replacement jockey wheel and it's free
Now i got a spare derailleur
Nice to see another content creator using/buying mainstream Chinese products. Choice drives competition which is great to see and for the most part you no longer need to worry about products failing at a reasonable price point. I think you should go the whole way and make a complete bike build using Chinese products only.
I purchased my first Chinese crankset and BB (BB brand was Jian Kun, probably crank as well?), it has the direct mount chainring, like SRAM, but a 24mm hollow spindle like Shimano. I bought it two years ago, and just cleaned it up today, and it has held up great, no creaks, bearings still smooth, narrow wide chainring showing minimal wear. I use it on a hardtail and ride blue, red and the occasional black diamond trails. I wondered if I would regret the purchase, and so far, nope.
thats awesome and some great information for a 2 year old crank really getting some good field tests!!
Cool video, I do have a comment on the 105 and force 22 comparisons.
1. the weights you stated are for the rim brake variants (both force and 105). The disc brake versions weigh considerably more.
2. The force 22 is not 12 speed. It is the "old" mechanical 11 speed (2*11=22, hence the name force22). this was a crazy light groupset for the price in 2012-2013.
Looking forward to see the build and i'm also very grateful for giving attention to these parts and not being another youtube channel shoving 2k+ groupsets down our throats as the only viably options. Yesterday i read the new 105 di2 was also going to cost just south of 2k!
keep up the good work!
Do you ever communicate with Trace Velo on the Chinese stuff? Exciting stuff. I have some Winspace Rims for my CAAD 12 and love them!
Looking forward to the build video and how it performs. First time here, great video!
Cheap build for sure, did you ever get to build the winnspace?
I am waiting for it still, I think it shoudl come if not i have one at the store
I've been using sensah Shifters n derailleur since the first version of 11 speed ... My bike has flip n land on the derailleur... It still work till today.. Love the one click n 2 click system.
The ZRace RX crankset didn't give me any trouble, however their chainrings are crap. I installed it new with 2 new KMC X11 chains - both are still well within spec while the 52t chainring is completely shot, shark teeth, after just one season.
On the bright side, it's standard 110bcd 5bolt, so replacements are cheap and plenty.
very nice, I will have to test this once i get it on a bike myself still trying to figure out what to built it with
Just subscribed to see the final product. I'm wanting to build an endurance bike and will be piecing the bike together and I'm very curious concerning the Ali express merch
so I pushed it all together and i gave an update to it, but It didnt go the way I planned it, I bought a velobuild bike that looked like a pinarello and I got an email form pinarello saying to take down the video, so I had too but I gave an update video on the bike itself, as for right now I have gave the bike to a friend who needed a bike and the group is lasting great, the only thing I will say is the brakes are horible, they need nicer calipers for sure
@@GCPerformance18 I believe I watched a video on the brakes and when I piece mine together I'll get something different. Appreciate the response
My first bike was Alcott Zagato Team a Chinese brand bike with Ultregra group set an aero bike. not a bad bike … used it for 3 month …. climb hills & descent hills very well …it’s everyone first bike here in part of South East Asia …
Still cable disc which from my testing over the years showed itself to be wanting. For a mid range run brake build its not a bad group.
I fully agree. No matter what you do, the cable to brake lever ratio at the calliper will always result in bad brake modulation. Definitely worse than a rim brake and worse than a hydro disc brake. TRP Spyres are OK. But also not great. With these semi hydros I wonder whether the brake fluid would severely overheat on long descents.
I'm new to cycling so I got a beginner bike. The bike comes with a groupset from Sensah. I've only swapped out the rotors cause I upgraded my wheelset to a centerlock type. I've put about 5000 kms on it now and the only issues I had is I fell once, broke the RD hangar and some of the bolts have slightly rusted. Other than the occasional indexing, its pretty crisp.
veyr nice info, I cant wait to get this one built
@@GCPerformance18 can't wait to see it!
The point is that neither Shimano or Sram offer a 12 speed mechanical groupset. If you want mechanical with either, its only available in 11 speed only. That is the benefit of the Sensah groupset unless you go to Campy but then it would be like going from a Yugo to a Benz comparison in terms of pricing.
Don't hesitate buying Sensah groupset, my Yugo is still running after 30+ years 😂( ps I have never owned a Benz )
Go full china build! Maybe a winspace gravel build??
great vid, I'd like to see a budget build with one of the carbon fiber Chinese frames. this is something I've been thinking about just to see how it works.
I have a fairly identical set-up on an older steel Fondriest frame. Empire 11s with the same crankset, same chain and a Z-Race DUB bottom bracket with italian thread. Works quite fine. I'd say it's good value for money. 👍
I have the new ltwoo coming in the 2x12 hydralic disc setup coming in
Now that you mentioned LTWOO, i am considering upgrading the 105 8s i have on my indoor training bike to LTWOO R9 (10 speed). 😅
I bought Sensah Empire Pro derailleur and shifters from AliExpress two years ago. Unfortunately they don't make breaks. The third party breaks they bundle with it didn't appeal to me besides I needed direct mount rim breaks. I was unable to get the front derailleur to work reliably. I took it to a bike shop and they didn't make it work any better. It would work on the bike stand but not when I rode it. I'm pretty sure it was a cable tension problem but I'm incompetent with this type of thing. I also didn't think 12 speeds gave me any benefit. I eventually gave up and got Shimano Ultegra derailleurs and shifters. But the price and weight of the Sensah Empire Pro group set is fantastic. The ZRace crank that came with it is great. I got a power meter for it too that works fine.
Same here - swapped the front derailleur with 105s. And works perfectly with sensah rear ones!! The sensah front needed so much tension and no barrel adjuster either.
I think that has been addressed and the newer front derailleur has a lighter spring in it.
@@darrengarvie8832 yes it has been. I think the issue was leverage mech. Was barely any because of the pivot point.
Excited for the build 👍🏽
I'd love to try out the entire groupset, but from experience one shortcoming of the "cheap china" stuff has been cassettes and chains. Parts I've bought the tolerances suck and everything feels clicky and misaligned.
Great video! More Chinese/Asian branded reviews please.
Working on it!
11:49 that 'nub' is not there for support, it's there to catch the chain from falling between the crank and the ring. It also should help bring the chain back onto the ring while racing. I'd just stop to prevent damage while on a normal ride though.
very nice thanks for the informaion!!! makes sense
Every single industry had cheaper option competitors except for road bikes.. feels good to see these companies mature into decent options
maybe soon
Off-topic a little bit, I have a similar-ish story about runners (shoes). I'm a triathlete and would spend crazy amounts on getting the right premium shoes (for my fragile, easy to injure legs), and a history of years of injury treatment to go along with all that. Anything up to and including Asics Kayano, etc. My average weekly mileage is between 60 and 100 miles.
I now live in Shenzhen, China, and as an experiment I ordered a pair of USD$7.50 runners from a factory (that had similar specs than my MUCH more expensive shoes), and after feeling perfect on a couple of test runs, switched to those cheap shoes are all I run in, and basically three years later never get injured (no more than expensive shoes anyway).
Bottom line is the "famous" brands charge ridiculous amounts for their name.
:)
Build it asap. Love to see
okay sounds god still trying to figure out what frame
Joe from China Cycling is watching with a smile
It will be interesting to see your evaluation after you build the group into a bike. I think Oz cycle did a review on the Yoleo and I think it was a very positive review. As I watch your video I was talking myself into building another bike to add to my stable. Upgrading to disc brake, thru-axle, and going back to a shorter crank length are all reasons I would build another bike.
yea I am trying to talk to a couple companys right now but ifnothing then I gues I will be running it on my specialized lol
Excited for the build and thanks for sharing!
It's good to see they included a wavy washer with that crank. Mine didn't come with one, and I ended up needing it to properly preload the BB bearings. Also, your spider bolts look like regular torx bolts? Mine were security torx bolts (with a pin in the middle), which I didn't have the required bit for, so I ended up buying some SRAM bolts to replace them.
I just bought these yesterday! I've been researching them for a while now.
veyr nice i am tryin to get a frame for it now
@GC Performance yeah, I plan on getting a Elves. I want to see if I like it compared to the Yoeleo build I'm doing with Ultegra 12 speed Di2.
I would like to see you do a winspace build . I have built Yoel wood R11 with 105 rim brake and used ican wheels. I am considering doing a disc brake. Keen to see your build goes 👍
I got you, I am thinking of going that way, to be hoenst i have half say winspace the other half being a big brand so I might just buy another group
Sram force 22 is 11 speed, not 12 spd. You can mod to 12 speed but no factory mechanical sram 12 speed.
Can you share which Aliexpress store/merchant you purchased from?
www.aliexpress.com/item/3256802597940706.html?spm=a2g0o.best.moretolove.2.61322c25gFAlZw&gps-id=pcBestMore2Love&scm=1007.40000.267768.0&scm_id=1007.40000.267768.0&scm-url=1007.40000.267768.0&pvid=fc9e3fbf-3c31-4d76-bb7a-dbd11573997f&_t=gps-id:pcBestMore2Love,scm-url:1007.40000.267768.0,pvid:fc9e3fbf-3c31-4d76-bb7a-dbd11573997f,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238107%2318&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000022170470986%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230000%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21%21390.6%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9d016568189838111753ed2cb%2112000022170470986%21rec
its on sale right now
I want to build something with Sensah Empire Pro shifters. What's nice about them is that they can actuate a gravel rear derailleur.
So, I want to build a 1x road/light gravel bike, with 38 teeth, narrow wide in front, and the 11-39, 12-speed, Rotor cassette.
That's all that my old knees can push.
I'm going to mix chinese components with big brands ones, what I economise on shifters will go on a nice cassette.
Waiting for more reviews of those calipers, though.
I'd love to see these on a 'mid end' frame with the whole bike costing in the range of 2-3k USD as I think that would be a rough pricepoint for the people that may be thinking of using this groupset :D
2-3k is almost high end :D full carbon frame, carbon wheels
Hey GC
Have you worked on a Merida?
I have not, they are not sold here
Be great to see this on a build and your thoughts on running it to 👍👍🤩🚴 great review as always👍
look forward a UA-cam for field test of this groupset
me too, I just need to find a frame for it first
My mechanic scuffs at anything lower than Durace mechanical. Imagine if I brought this to the shop. He will send me right out with that empire business lol 😂
there are a lot of bike mechanics like this, (i know a bunch of them) its jsut how I think we were brought up, when I first started in a store I was the same way, but times are changing
Sounds like it is time to look for a new mechanic :D
I am only wondering where/how you get replacement components after a while. Cassettes wear out. Do you order them in China again or replace it with Shimano?
Also, currently I ride a Trek Domane 2 disc version. Will it work if I just go for the shifters, cassette and derailleur?
yea prob go to ali express they sell chains and cassettes on there now, they sell everything seprate
Running a Sensah RD/shifter + Zrace crankset + Juintech combo on my gravel bike, it's already perfect for my needs. I absolutely loved the double tap system so I switched the sensah shifter into sram apex 1 hrd shifter, works perfectly on sensah srx pro rd. Sram full hydro shifter + sensah is my semi end game setup for now until sensah release their full hydro sensah groupset
I bought the Sinsah empire. I, being a mortal, couldn’t get it to dial in. Slips like crazy. It’s on my Zwift setup in my basement now.
Went for this crankset. Everything fine except for the fact that the big chainring didn't have countersunk bolts. Substituted an FSA ring...all well. But totally disappointed that something so simple to do..... was simply ignored....
I am excited to see how it all works once I install it, it al looks god on paper, but I know it never works out this good
It’ll be very interesting to hear your expert opinion on the build and how the group set performs. I’ve got to say, from what I’ve seen so far, that the Sensah parts look equivalent to mainstream parts from 15 to 20 years ago in terms of technology, design, manufacturing and attention to detail. The 3 mainstream guys need some serious competition to bring the prices down and the supply back to where it should be. Unfortunately the Sensah at this point isn’t at the level yet - maybe after another few years they’ll get there. Looking forward to the rest of the review - keep up the good work.!
Mechanical group prices haven't gone up unreasonably from the big three. Electronic is only now being adopted in big numbers but they're a luxury item and don't have an old market to compare to. But even the cheapest electronic groups are better than the first gen Di2 but for less money. As for Sensah, it's quite nice for the money. Definitely better than Ultegra from 15yrs ago
Is Empire Pro using HG freehub?
Looking forward to the build. I wonder which wheels and components you will use
Well I think Sensah is a real good option in todays market. For me for example as a student I cant affort state of the art bikes upwards of 2k, let alone a groupset for 1,8k.
But with Sensah I feel you can build a more budget friendly bike. Im almosted finished with my Sensah SRX 1x11 disc brake gravel build with thru axles and up to 42 mm tubeless wheels and barely spent 800€. Note that I bought the wheelset used but still I couldnt think of any other possibility to get a decent state of the art gravel bike with such performance and looks for sub 1k.. If you buy these cheap bikes form the hardware store for the same money you`ll get a heavy piece of steel..
On my roadbike the Sensah 2x11 set has lasted me already over 2000km and is still performing flawless so I think we should stop judging them as something that bad expcept obv. the stolen IP from SRAM maybe..
thats good field testing, I cant wait to get this on a bike and see how it rides
Be interesting to see if you could borrow a metallurgical scanner and see if these things are made out of much different materials
how was the tolerancing on the tapering from the axel to crank arm?
it was great installing the chainring had room, I still have not installed it on the bike yet but I am waiting for one to come in
We need to know how does it hold up over time? Put it through its paces.
Bu looking at the tires on your back, do you happen to have turbo rapid 2bliss 700-28 in stock 🙈
Install the Sensah Empire on an S-Works Tarmac or Aethos for shit and giggles.
Seriously what better way to test and compare how good Sensah is by installing it on a frame you are very familiar with. Then have Tarmac and Aethos owners with Shimano, SRAM, Campagnolo groupsets. A - B test the same bike with Sensah Empire. This would be a fair comparison don’t you think?
You should have bought their 13 speed hg hub MTB line.
no tright now but maybe in the future
You should follow Trace Velo on here, he's done some serious miles on budget drive trains.
I have seen him and love his content, he makes great informational and entertaining videos
@@GCPerformance18 Yep, there is more out there than just Shimano and SRAM. I run S-Ride on my MTB Absolutely flawless shifting.
My brother use that the shifting is nice it feels like the old version of ultegras. but the down side is the durability the RD bend when they climb the hardest mountain in my area max gradient is 29%
I am rooting for these new bike grouppos to become more widespread as it should help competition and benifit consumers (although I hope that China is not dumping these on the world market in an unfair move). Chinese electronic will really catch peoples attention (and Empire Pro must go fully hydraulic).
Of course it’s an unfair move. Their labor is quasi-slave labor. In some cases like the Uighurs it’s literally slave labor.
can't wait to see the verdict after first maiden ride on these
It amazes me how much bicycles cost nowadays, given that almost all parts are all manufactured off-shore in mainland China and Taiwan. A brand new mid-level race bike build can be attainable for all people at $3000, including carbon frameset, full groupset, carbon wheelset and finishing kit, but instead the brands are selling it at double this price. Cycling should be a more accessible activity/sport and it sucks when brands are increasing prices well above reason. Would love to see more content on affordable options for everyday cyclists. It doesn't have to be cheap knock-offs or replicas, but perhaps manufacturers who are genuinely trying to grow their own customer base. I've experienced excellent communication and service with Winspace, Farsports and Velobuild, who respond much faster to my questions than any of the major Western brands.
With the exception of SRAM, top groupsets come from Japan (Shimano) or Italy (Campagnolo). If anything, it's SRAM that's actually overpriced when they charge similar to first world nations products from Shimano and Campagnolo.
Also. Check that this is the new version of the Empire Shifters. The old version had a plastic part that breaks. Then you’re screwed getting parts.
I say…do a Windspace build ( all Chinese build ) that would be awesome and more importantly I would love to see the first ride impressions
Good luck with any warranty/customer service issues.
yea this comes with the territory of it, when u buy cheap do not expect crazy customer service
Salute GCP good video 🙏👍🔥🇵🇷💯
I want to see a 2022 Specialized Allez Sprint build. Maybe some SunRise Carbon wheels?
Interested in time it's took to get bits from Ali express, I'm still waiting for my wheels
what wheels?
@@GCPerformance18 elite wheels arrived yesterday. 😎
BSA or BB30 bottom bracket?
Not sure which to get or even the difference. Which would you recommend?
Depends on your bike. I got bsa because the frame I was putting it on was a bsa threaded bottom bracket
Helllll yeah! Can’t wait to see this
I think the weight you put up there for the 105 is for the rim brake version.
I think I did disc brake I ade sure it was a close comparison to the real thing
@@GCPerformance18 I understand that you used the charts provided on the groupset comparison website. It's wrong. I just checked. I was sure because I've installed this groupset on a bike 2 months ago. If you go to bike radar it has a part to part breakdown of the groupset. Just added up the weights for the disc brake version of 105 (r7000 or r7020) and it adds up to 2732 (with calipers and rotors). Sometimes, these charts are wrong.
I would love to see this groupset you put on a bike and test it. Hope you will do it soon.
I am working on it now
Ali express is my go to for cheap bike upgrades. Still haven’t gotten wheels/group set yet though
build up with an elves falath?
i do not know that brand
if bike were subsidised like cars instead of what state it is at right now, bikes and bike aprts would have been much much cheaper and more affordable that even an 8 year old kid's bike would have XTR level groupset on
I know it makes no sense, its because I think shimano and sram have subh a stronghold on the market they are able to call there prices
super interesting content! would be interesting to see a comparable build bike to something more mainstream you have and then do some back-to-back runs and compare power inputs etc... to see impact of 'quality' to the ride etc...
Either way, keep up the great content dude
Fact : Giant is the OEM for 85% of all carbon frames made for the brand names you see out there. Taiwan is where most of the higher end Carbon frames are made at the Giant bicycle corporation factories there. There is only a tiny amount of Frames ( Track Frames mostly) that are actually made outside of Asia. For my single ChainRing bike I only use Stone rings, there is nothing out there like them with the superior Wide narrow teeth.
Very nice! Considering the price, you could easily throw in a sroad or ztto cassette for 100g weight savings.
The brakes are objectively the worst part of the build. Make sure to use compressionless brake housing.
Trace Velo already did a review on the whole groupset and the brakes.
I myself have TRP HY/RD brakes (semi hydraulic) on my gravel bike, and I find them great, so these systems can work really well.
Considering the build, build it on something that doesn't have fully internal cables, because everything is cable actuated here. ( it will be far easier for you to build it, and it may perform a little bit better)
I actually built a 100% Chinese branded bike just to spite the common wisdom (excl. tires and derailleur housing)
It’s awesome. As good as a SL7? Highly doubt it. But I’d say it gets you 80% there for 20% of the price, and more bike than my legs can make use of.
A lot of good Chinese brands coming up these days. It’s like Korean products in the ‘90s. Same “Made in Korea” stigma. Eventually a handful of Korean brands found there way up and are now known for quality manufacturing. This story is playing out now in China.
Not to knock the majors. They made awesome stuff. It’s just that there are options for those wanting performance, but have budget considerations.
Not for nothing, Sensah only does derailleurs and shifters. It sources cranks from a brand called Senic X, and OSPWs from a brand called LingMai. They use rebranded cassettes. Maybe Sunshine - I’m not sure.
They don’t have any official supplier of calipers, etc. So, usually some b-grade brakes are thrown in. This is why on AliX, when looking for Sensah, you’ll notice that aside from the shifters and derailleurs, the other parts provided are all over the place.
ZRACE is sort of a bike parts General Store, and just rebrands stuff from other OEMs. Another store almost exactly like it is ZTTO. They are good if you don’t want to scour AliX for little parts.
Swap rotors to alligator wind cutters and swap all bolts to cheap to bolts from Amazon and weight will drop around 260 grams or
yea I could run some ultegra 140s on there
You will find the rear cassette shifts well to start with, then it will degrade in performance quite quickly, this is due to not having the shifting ramps that better known cassettes have.
I’m interested to see where GC goes with this one
Come on. how do they ride?
lol still working on finding a bike for it, talking with a couple companies for it
Seems like you're really paying for the shifters and derailleurs. The calipers/rotors/chain/cassette/crank are just a random assortment the sellers put together to make a whole kit.
yeah, thought that too, so essentially you wanna replace everything except shifters+derailleurs which rises the question whether one really want's to pay pretty much the same for something that has very remote service capabilities and is far from "tried and tested".
@@wolf.himmler Ya, I wouldn't really bother with a lot of the filler kit. The chain is pretty much trash, calipers not so hot, and the crankset/BB setup has very mixed reviews. Something like Shimano's non-series RS510 crank, Avid mechanicals, basic Shimano M6100 chain, etc, are going to be headache free budget options. The cassette you may have to live with. I don't know of any good budget 12spd road cassette. I suspect SunRace may one day make one, but that's not here yet.
Can you post the links of these products!! Thank you!
if background music must exist, can it be lower volume so it don't interfere with what you are saying?
Do u have a recommendations for the wheelset that would be compatible with this 12 speed groupset in aliexpress??
Anything with a normal SHIMANO 11 speed freehub
@@GCPerformance18 Subbed...thanks for the quick reply