is antifreeze a good wood preservative
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Today I want to talk about DIY wood preservatives. If you like making wood projects that spend time out in the weather, is there a low-cost effective remedy you can use to keep your hard work from rotting from moisture besides paint stains or epoxy?
Well, There just might be. Back in the 1990s, a man by the name of Dave Carnell published online a short article titled chemotherapy for wood rot. Dave was a chemical engineer that had worked with antifreeze for Dupont. Dave was an interesting guy, his career spanned 40 years at Dupont and as a young man served on a destroyer in the Pacific in ww2.
Dave experimented with homemade wood preservatives using ethylene glycol and borates. He provided a very specific set of instructions on how a person could make a very effective DIY wood preservative. As the years went by and he continued to experiment and review the wood samples he had treated, Dave eventually concluded that plain antifreeze with ethylene glycol worked as well as the chemical formula he created with the borate. He claimed the antifreeze penetrated faster and deeper.
Dave passed away in 2010 at the age of 89. If you read the online forums that discuss Daves work, you will see people who admit they never tried his method claim it would never work as ethylene glycol will dissipate in the air or when exposed to water in just a few days making it a short-term remedy. However, there are many people who tried using antifreeze with ethylene glycol as dave had done who claim to have received good results at protecting their wood from rot and fungus and mold for several years.
Dave was always confident in his online remarks that the ethylene glycol was absorbed into the cells of the wood and did not just lie on the surface and once inside the cells tended to stay there.
Ethylene glycol is very toxic. One of the most dangerous aspects of the liquid is it has a sweet taste and animals or children have been known to taste it and consume it causing severe injury or death. I will provide a link to the MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet so you can see the toxicity and handling instructions should you decide to use antifreeze. I am not recommending you use antifreeze or responsible for any consequences should you do so,, but I am letting you know there is anecdotal evidence that ordinary antifreeze with ethylene glycol is is a very effective and cheap wood preservative, one that I would use in outdoor wood projects in a prudent manner. I would not use antifreeze on wood used in an enclosed space on a boat or anywhere it may come in contact with food or water or if the wood was to be sanded or cut later as to release dust that could be harmful.
There is some antifreeze that contains propylene glycol and not ethylene glycol. Propylene glycol is not the same chemical as ethylene glycol and will not be effective according to Dave.
Dave passed away some years ago but his experiments, DIY chemical formulas, and conclusions regarding using antifreeze are still online, I will provide a link to the video description.
An interesting side note. Dave wrote that he suffered from a chronic case of athletes foot under his toenail all of his life. His dermatologist told him it was incurable. Dave applied the liquid to his toe and in time the toenail grew back and the skin turned into a healthy pink color.
Dave experimented with undiluted etifreeze. Unfortunately, he did not give a brand name of the antifreeze he used or the ethylene glycol concentration that was in the antifreeze.
If I was making an outdoor wood project or even a small wooden boat and I was concerned about it rotting out over time, I would not hesitate to try using plain antifreeze with ethylene glycol as an experiment to see if it would stop the fungus and mold destroying the wood.
You can apply paint and finishes over wood treated with antifreeze. Experiments by the Gougeon brothers, the famous marketers of their own brand of epoxy, revealed that epoxy can be applied over wood treated with ethylene glycol with no bonding issues.
If you do decide to use antifreeze as a wood preservative for your project after reviewing the safety issues and anecdotal evidence. Or have done so in the past, please leave a comment on your results.
Thanks for watching guys, I add new videos every week for the last ten years. Don't forget to check out my playlists and people I feature on my channel and you can find more information in the video description.
See ya out there.
Ethylene Glycol
MSDS
www.sciencelab....
Dave Carnell's boatbuilding pages
www.angelfire.c...
Robb Moffett
Robb's Homemad3e Life
I have applied straight green antifreeze to a boat transom that had began to rot from a improperly installed depth finder. The wire was allowing fresh water to soak the transom. I constantly apply antifreeze through the old hole where the wire passed through the transom and it seems to have completely stopped the rot. Started doing that years ago and last summer I saturated it many many times. The wood just keeps soaking it up.
I’m a believer
hey, thanks so much for such helpful input.😎👌
The toxicity aspect is overstated. It take a fairly large dose to harm you.
www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ethylene-glycol/default.html
I'm repairing my boats cabin top and have grooved out the split joints, painted antifreeze in the joint and allowed it to dry before filling with epoxy filler. It will take time before I can evaluate the result, ie; no further deterioration, but so far so good. It has been on for about 9 months now.
Matt, thanks so much for that helpful reply, please keep us posted.
wuddup
Used this procedure on rough cut kiln dried pine, used it as siding on small barn, un painted,no stain treatment at all beyond used antifreeze, 11 years ago has never grown mold, has maintained its color and density. Highly recommend.
hey Bill, thanks so much for taking the time to leave your comment, it really helps.
Have you ever tried using antifreeze on fresh cut green wood ? I believe that Carnell mentioned that antifreeze has a high affinity for water and therefore applying it to green wood might work just the same. I've never tried it myself.
John Mazza I have not tried it on green wood , I need to dig out original article my father passed on to me well he was building a boat, the article had information that maybe useful.
@@billwhite9701 Yes, I recall reading it on the wooden boat forum but I lost the link.
I cannot confirm or deny this info; but anti-freeze, and boric acid mixed into a loose liquid slurry solution, and poured into crack in a concrete foundation that has termites, will make the termites vacate the treated foundation area for at least six years. It could be longer, but with rentals you just never know.
very interesting.
boric acid mixed into water would likely do the same thing
I once used used Mobil 1 engine oil on rough cut oak boards 2 x12's for hd loading ramps letting it soak in good which sat outside in PA for 20+ years and are still heavy as heck but like new.
I have never tried that but have heard similar stories. Can't beat the cost, thanks a lot for watching and for the helpful comment.😎👌
Propylene gyocol (RV antifreeze) perhaps less effective than etylene glycol, has been found to be good wood persevative too. Both propylene glycol and borax is non-toxic and makes effective combination as wood perservative treatment and can be applied many times without concern for toxicity
Agreed. I used that combo plus Boric acid some years back and it worked well. But now Boric acid has been delisted in Canada. Instead I am using an adhoc mix of propylene glycol, borax and copper oxychoride (garden fungicide). I'll fill the voids with tile thinset, which worked nicely in another garden pergola project.
@@wayditay9288 I'd love to know how you got the boric acid to mix into the propylene glycol. I've mixed both prop and ethylene glycol with boric acid and with and without borax as well and heated all the different mixtures outside on an electric hot plate and never got it to mix. All the mixes are still in containers in my basement with a layer of sand like boric acid/borax laying on the bottom years later.
Superb narration and information. Thank you. I will try it on a footbridge I recently build across a creek. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!
Tim, if you build any more bridges make UA-cam video that would be an interesting topic. Thanks again for taking the time to watch the video and post a helpful comment, much appreciated.
I used anti-freeze on a wooden boat rot repair two years ago. Conventional wisdom says remove rot then several feet of healthy looking wood to remove all the spores. I removed only inches of healthy looking wood then applied anti-freeze. Three coats over a two week period. It is slow to absorb. So far so good, I believe it works. I've since used it at home to successfully prevent growth of green slime on a bare cedar deck. I expected the rain to wash it off and kill the plants under the deck, but that did not happen.
hey champ, that is very helpful information. BTW, ,I liked the few videos you have , the RC guitar boat was funny, hope you do more videos, I subscribed.
Thanks Robb!
I find it very interesting that you are using it on a boat where it is obviously exposed to water . Salt water ? Or fresh ? I've read that it will wash out of the wood but I've also heard that it has a high affinity for moisture in the wood so perhaps it will get drawn deep into the wood and remain there ? Has that been your experience ? Are you using it below the water line on the outside ? Or are you applying it on the inside of the hull ? I believe Carnell also points out that it expands the cells within the wood so perhaps this might be great for keeping a wood boat water tight ?
@@johnmazza9432 From using it on cedar decks at home I see that surface green slime turns brown and disappears, but the circumstances that allowed the green to grow remain....rain and shade. After a few months the green returns so the anti-freeze is clearly washed out of the wood. It is five years now since 95% of the rotten wood was replaced in the boat and the rot hasn't returned. To be clear, I followed the anti-freeze treatment with two soakings of Tim-Bor borax solution which is supposed to discourage the growth of rot fungus. I also corrected the conditions that allowed the wood to rot: leaky decks. So even though the boat is in salt water and exposed to weather, it is basically dry inside. I chase down the leaks from above and seal them, but observing the odd area that has been damp for a year or more, no rot has returned. So as I see it the rot spores that were in the wood five years ago were neutralized by the anti-freeze. To your last point, I haven't seen any evidence of wood swelling when it takes up anti-freeze.
@@seachamp100 Do you think it would be worthwhile to treat outdoor wood surfaces once a year with antifreeze ? and then after they are dry , topcoat with something like a Thompson's water seal ?
Borates are quick and easily obtained. The effective recipe is 40% Boric Acid plus 60% Borax (yes, 20 mule will work) and polypropylene glycol which is the PINK pipe-saver antifreeze, also sold as RV (water system) antifreeze. PPG is also a laxative.
Why would you use polypropylene glycol when Carnell specifically mentions that it does not work to kill mold and insects like ethylene glycol ?
@@johnmazza9432 after reading several different posts on this, I believe the borates do the pest and fungi killing while the safer peg solution helps to penetrate the wood better than borates in a water only solution. I believe I am going to try ethylene glycol on a section of rot, prior to wood filler, and polyethylene with borates on the areas that are sound and only need a preventive treatment.
@@firstinmediallc6164 I was just at a auto parts store and noticed a jug of antifreeze that read, "borate free" suggesting that the majority of antifreeze DOES contain borates. Perhaps this is why ethylene glycol kills mold and insects while propylene glycol does not. Dave Carnell already did the research. I would stick with what he has said.
Yep, and boric acid is usually packaged as a dry pesticide. Unfortunately, the Canadian gov delisted it a few years back. So, good luck finding it here in the north.
good luck getting those to dissolve.
You need to heat that mixture.
I've tried every combination of the below and have a clear jar of each combo.
All have the powders just sitting on the bottom of the jar like sand.
These are the ingredients I used:
polypropylene glycol
Borate Powder
Borax (20 Mule Team)
very hard to get the borate and borax into solution. polypropylene glycol (the pink stuff) comes with water in it.
My guess is that the water kept the mixture from reaching any higher than boiling point and that I didn't get ?solubility? if that is the correct word, until the water had boiled off yielding a lot less liquid.
My best results as far as dissolving the powders was a mix of all 3 heated for a very long time.
Once painted on the logs, you can se little crystals form. Hopefully some formed inside the wood assuming aI got some penetration.
The cheap latex fence paint I used flaked off over the winter.
One last note, the crystals wash off in the rain so, I think the paint or some type of coating would help.
IF, the straight anti freeze works, then it is a much much easier solution.
Tim-Bor and the like are a Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate which I don't know exactly what the difference is from Borate but I know if dissolves easy in water but leaves a white residue which is visible under translucent coatings.
The link to the Angelfire article is no longer working so I can't read the article from Dave. But I would like to.
Very interesting, the fact that you can paint over it would lock everything nasty in and it should be safe, you know safe for the people that like to chew on wood....
Interesting stuff! I don't know where to get undiluted ethylene glycol though, Walmart only sells prediluted 50/50 antifreeze!
Walmart does sell undiluted antifreeze, but you must check the label, since they are phasing out ethylene glycol for recipes that are more animal and people friendly. Look for the jugs that say "must add water"
Look for the price. . . Undiluted is almost double.
I found the straight concentrate at Walmart for about 16 bucks, Prestone In the gray bottle orange cap. Look for the word concentrate
Very interesting! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
If I have a log with internal dry rotting, and would have to drastically degrade the integrity of it's strength to scrape it out, can I use eg to kill the fungus or does it just protect from fungal growth? If it's only preventative what can I use to kill the fungus throughout the log? I plan to epoxy afterward to further strengthen.
It's my understanding that it kills the fungus.
Thank u. I was going to get a couple gallons of concentrate to do a radiator repair anyway.
Antifreeze is required to have bitter in it now though.
true
I might try that to an outdoor bench and coated with wax. A layer of wax will prevent chemical contact and the glycol will prevent wood from fading colors.
try adding some kerosene to dissolve the wax
I have some rotten wood I have to replace and i have some old anti freeze that isnt pre mixed. I may give this a try.
It'll kill the fungus spores, but it won't regrow the damaged wood...
I've heard Bondo or similar body work putty can fill wooden voids
Yes Bondi is just for structural beauty and shape or just simply esthetics. It does not restore the wood tensile strength.
what is a good brand of antifreeze? I am trying to compare all the stuff online but am having trouble finding which brand actually contains the ethylene stuff
I had the same question...did you find an answer? Considering just buying 100% Ethylene Glycol from Amazon and diluting to 50% with water.
@@DavidDachauer
if going antifreeze route, i would use Prestone concentrate - the spec sheet shows 80-95% ethylene glycol at 1/3 price i see for pure ethylene glycol. this looks like cheapest route at only $10/gal.
Prestone Antifreeze/Coolant Universal CONCENTRATE
www.walmart.com/ip/Prestone-All-Vehicles-10yr-300k-mi-Antifreeze-Coolant-1-Gal-Concentrate/16879960
contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/msds/en/US/525501
I've used ordinary antifreeze as a preservative on rough green lumber on truck beds, and various other applications. I dilute to 50/50 so it will go in quickly. I spray it on with a weed sprayer lightly on hot days...the antifreeze soaks in, and when the surface dries, I spray on more. I do quite a few light coats. The idea is both to hydrate the wood with ethylene glycol to prevent warpage, and to prevent rot...... It is toxic, but that's the point.... If it wasn't toxic, it wouldn't prevent rot. Once I reach the tlar stage (that looks about right), I apply oil over it to seal it in. I've used oil intended for wood treatment, but also used good clean used automotive ATF. The result seems to resist warp and shrink and rot for many years . My antifreeze applications will go on for weeks... whenever I get the notion. Didn't know you could paint over it.... but I'm not fond of paint on rough lumber.
hey, thanks for the input!
Do you think your treatment would hold up if the lumber were used for ground contact projects such as retaining walls ? I have the ability to source free logs from tree services in my area and if I could mill them into 6x6's like the pressure treated lumber, I could have endless use for them. It might be a great alternative to store bought lumber these days. I was also thinking that the wood could be retreated each year if that helps. Perhaps even with a drip irrigation system which could be drilled into the lumber .
@@johnmazza9432 Water will of course carry the glycol out of the wood as easily as in, and it would likely leach into the ground if it is wet. My applications are not in ground contact, and rain and snow do not carry it away as they don’t saturate the wood. Only the surface is subject to diffusion leaching, so sealing the surface away from the interior as I did with used oil will encapsulate the glycol and prevent it leaching. Oil and water resist mixing, glycol is water soluble, soil is usually moist.... Try it.
@@stonetoolcompany3649 Good point about using oil on the surface to seal it in. I got some used telephone poles that I was going to use for landscape jobs . I wish I had thought to use the antifreeze first . I painted them with a combination of roofing tar mixed 50/50 with diesel fuel to thin it and allow it to penetrate the wood well. But it would have been great to first apply the antifreeze because that would have killed any mold growing inside the wood. I once heard that the problem with oil based wood preservatives is that mold can live in oil. Not sure that is true or not.
@@johnmazza9432 look up Shou Sugi Ban
The Japanese art of preserving wood by burning, I think it might be just what you need for your logs. Good luck
I applied the antifreezer, ethylene glycol on the window sills after scraping off the rotten part. How long does it take to dry?
I am going to fill it with epoxy after applying wood hardener.
How did it go? Was thinking about doing the same procedure.
This sound great how often do i have to reply to the wood is it every year or its forever
Cool that's a good question. I don't think the chemical degrades that much overtime but it could be reduced by exposure to sunlight or the atmosphere or even rain.
So does it work or not?
I NEED HELP ASAP PLEASE~ 44 ft Yacht Needing to Treat Inside and Outside what is equivalent of the Ethylene Glycol & Borax Solution for Inside and Outside of Berthed Boat? It is In Berth in water~
The Borates are mostly for termites
I think this was actually first done in the 70s correct?
Interesting but toxic
I think all wood preservatives are toxic.
And here I was treating my toothpicks. Glad I read this.
I have done this for years on my trailers with wooden decks. Have a couple over 20 years old a wood is well worn but not rotted. The green anti freeze works for me. It really does not dry the wood soaks it in. I paint all sides of the lumber. I also use it to paint cuts on pressure treated wood. I have painted rot with it and it stops what you can get to. Hope this helps someone.
I am not sure I would make a picnic table out of the coated boards. The trailers are open flatbed type I do not use it inside. After it soaks in paint adhears fine. Use gloves and keep children and pets away till it soaks in.
Wow
borax and boric acid and antifreeze boil for a while let cool then dilute 1 to 1 water
Thanks a lot John😀
So what if stray cats lick the post? 😂
The grain of the wood absorbs most of the liquid. I don't imagine there is very much on the surface. It's not like them drinking it.
Then is it safe for elevated garden beds growing veggies?