Hello Gaz, I’m a (very) mature learner and find learning from books hard work so your videos are a Godsend to me, your presentations are so clear and easy to understand. A massive thanks to you and everyone at GSH. Paul.
The requirement of Reg 534.4.8 regarding connections being short and as straight as possible is VERY important and shouldn't be easily ignored. Any bends - especially loops - in the conductor will appear to any extremely fast-rising voltage 'spike' (in the order of a number of kV in microseconds) as a significant impedance. The danger is that some other part of the installation presents a lower impedance path to earth and is damaged while the SPD remains intact. Same principles apply to the earthing of surge diverters on HV overhead lines and terminations. I've seen flashovers from 90 deg bend 'elbows' in 70 sq mm earthing conductor, which looked great but ultimately defeated the purpose of the protective device.
Great video, just one suggestion. As a rule of thumb, always install SPDs downstream of MCBs and upstream of RCCB (MCB --> SPD --> RCCB). There are exceptions of course, with certain types of RCCB's being able to be installed upstream of the SPD but follow the rule of thumb if you don't want to deal with that constraint.
I didn't realise that the 1 mtr rule includes both the live conductor AND the earth conductor. Thanks for that update. 👍👍 I assume then that the self contained stand along packages you can buy are fully conversant then.
I'm about to move my consumer unit position (fitting a new one in the process) and moving the cut out into the garage with a 80A switchfuse mounted adjacent to feed the house. I was looking at ready made self contained SPDs and read the instructions. I'm advised that SPDs are not suitable for an overhead fed property (which is my place, a rural position on a hill and exposed). Im puzzled, we have had a lighting strike a few years ago and it took out the TV, fridge and BT equipment (insured luckily) but I have been led to believe we MUST fit SPDs on new installations now. If I'm advised that they are not suitable in my property whats the point, Iwill therefore not be complying with the wiring regs. Im puzzled. What are your thoughts please.
My poor old arthritic wrists were aching in sympathy watching that tightening. Also I can think of a few larger switchboards that would exceed the 0.5-1.0m distance just within the board...
THESE TORQUES SETTINGS ARE ALL O/K BUT WHEN YOU ARE JAMMED UP NEAR THE CEILING OR UNDER THE STAIRS NOT SO EASY I THINK THEY SHOULD MAKE THESE NEW DRIVERS WITH A TEE BAR RATHER THAN THE ORDINARY SCREWDRIVER HANDLE MIND YOU COULD MAKE YOUR OWN
I fit meters which are specific for solar, the torque setting for the terminals are 0.9nm. Had to buy another torque driver handle to go down that low, never seems tight enough but ours is not to reason why and I always do a tug test.
At 3:46 you measure the length of earth, isn't that arbitrary as there is a length of wire from the earth bar to the Main fuse then to the neutral.....etc. I'm not sure what the 500mm is for and what is the effect of a longer path. Is it just the common earth point of the other circuits?
Question: Do I understand it correctly that spd has it own 15amp( b-curve?) “fuse”, in that case the cable length of the fase bare through the “fuse” need to be added to the total length (correct?)……
If after a risk assessment it is decided a SPD is required and considering it would then be assumed that a TOV would occur then given that these are single use components it would therefore follow that the installer would likely be required to have on hand a replacement so it is highly likely that the cost would need to include said spare, and in the event of a TOV occuring post install a further SPD would need to be obtained ad infinitum, run that past joe public and I know what the result will be, personally if TOV,s are likely then it should be down to the DNO to provide protection to their customers and if that were indeed a requirement this whole issue would vanish without trace
They are NOT single use components. SPD's are tested to BSEN 61643-1 and this requires them to be tested with a minimum of 20 transient events and still be operational. A good quality, well installed SPD should last in excess of 15 years.
They are not single use devices. But, they can degrade in a surge prone environment, hence the flag indicator window on the cartridge tells you if that has happened. Then, change the cartridge only.
9-slot DB reduced to 5-slots available. How about next week's regulations? Another two slots gone so another DB replacement. Those wires must be getting a bit work hardened by now with all the DB replacements... so let's rewire. Best just to ban electricity altogether. I mean, come on, it can kill! That's my risk assessment done.
Hi there, quick question please. I’m looking to purchase a Proteus 100A DP Electricity Meter Isolator Switch with T2 Surge Protection for my house. Does the regulation still apply in regards to the tails being 0.5mtr-1mtr for this device as is an isolator switch and SPD combined?
can you install a spd from an rcd supply i never thought you could the reason being the let thro current it trip before the spd see the transient a type ac or a does not offer 3ka/20micro seconds current wave a type akv,f,b,ev will tho
I got sent this message today on LinkedIn Hi Gaz, I managed to speak to Ian today from surge, very helpful gentleman and he helped me expand the knowledge about the earth leakage through SPD. The earth leakage through the SPD durring fault will only be present for no longer the 25 nano seconds therefor considerably quicker than the operation time of the RCDs. This said he mentioned that as the devices get older and worn the during of the earth leakage CAN get longer, therefor potentially cause an upstream RCD issue.
@@GSHElectrical thank you for your quick reply i have done a fair bit of re search into this and have some data that reflects the use of ac or a types being used and them triping before the transient gets to the spd (type 1 especially) my idea would be to have it on a mcb most i fitted so far require a 32 a cct good debate i do like a debate, also whilst i got you can you do a bit of a vid with dses electrical about spds and over head lines lol guys real funny
It doesn't actually have to look good, it just needs to function properly! I'd argue that for such a short run between enclosures, there's not much need to leave masses of slack as the wire could be easily replaced if it ever needed to so.
Hager 18th Edition Consumer Unit With Built in SPD, A Type 100 amp RCD’s to Comply With BS7671 ua-cam.com/video/5OuirPKoY0c/v-deo.html This might help. Thanks Gaz 👍
If you're a quaified electrician, you should know the answer to that question! If you're not, you probably shouldn't be doing the work yourself. It's very likely that you're overdoing it with 4mm2 cable, but there are a lot of factors to consider which could require de-rating of the cable and *could* get you to a 16A figure on that 4mm.
Hey I'm from the UK and Im interested in an apprenaship in the USA. I was wondering if I could hrt your opinions on my situation. And what you might suggest
how to specify the proper rating of SPD type one like maximum continuous operating voltage ,nominal discharge current and voltage protection level (Up) for the three phase four wire system (230/400) with TT earthing system ?
Why didn't you just mount the SPD box against the main DB and then use a bushing to mechanically join the boxes, you can then push your cables through the bushings. Easy as pie
Maybe I’m missing something here but Wondering why spds on anything other than on tt systems do we need both line and neutral protection. In tncs and tns the neutral and earth are connected before entering the Cu. Some spds take up two modules in the cu where space is often precious . I’m thinking connecting the spd to neutral is basically already done. Thoughts please
TNS connections are not bonded together within a short distance of the installation, there is plenty of length of conductor (with inductance at high frequency) on which the voltage spike can be present
Bloody hell, these spds have opened a can of worms,I’m not going to bother until they are incorporated as standard, hopefully I’ll be off the tools by then.
Can't help but think that the easiest way to compare the installed wiring to a 500mm or 1000mm length of conductor would've been to actually offer-up a 500mm or 1000mm length of the same conductor to the installation. Maybe it's just me but seeing metal tapes anywhere near electrical equipment - even equipment that's not-live - is a no-no!
I always thought they were called *_consumer units_* rather than *_consumer's units._* Can they *_really_* be called *_either ?_* Please clarify, thanks. >
The torque screwdriver effort is "All in the wrist action" - Just like the game "Battling Tops" from the '70's. ua-cam.com/video/mWFwzDJaeKw/v-deo.html
Does anybody really have a clue about these SPD's? It's seems to be mass confusion all round, and hardly any information.. Upstream or down stream of the mcbs, rcds..? One module or two?.. Different for TT/TNCS?.. How the efffing things actually work..? Different types of spd?.... Remotely or in the board?.. but no spare ways? Perhaps some decent wiring diagrams might help, but there aren't many about..
There can't be possibly any good reason the conductors have to be so short other than pushing people into have a board change with an integrated device.
Hello Gaz, I’m a (very) mature learner and find learning from books hard work so your videos are a Godsend to me, your presentations are so clear and easy to understand. A massive thanks to you and everyone at GSH. Paul.
Thanks for the great comment 👍🏻
The requirement of Reg 534.4.8 regarding connections being short and as straight as possible is VERY important and shouldn't be easily ignored. Any bends - especially loops - in the conductor will appear to any extremely fast-rising voltage 'spike' (in the order of a number of kV in microseconds) as a significant impedance. The danger is that some other part of the installation presents a lower impedance path to earth and is damaged while the SPD remains intact. Same principles apply to the earthing of surge diverters on HV overhead lines and terminations. I've seen flashovers from 90 deg bend 'elbows' in 70 sq mm earthing conductor, which looked great but ultimately defeated the purpose of the protective device.
Your learners have many wonderful opportunities at your college. Keep up the great work lads 👍
It's about time that screw heads in MCBs etc are torx heads, especially if manufacturers are requesting such high tightening torques.
I've got one of those Wiha drivers, good piece of kit. Never knew it went that high, don't think I've ever gone past 2.5Nm!
Great video, just one suggestion. As a rule of thumb, always install SPDs downstream of MCBs and upstream of RCCB (MCB --> SPD --> RCCB). There are exceptions of course, with certain types of RCCB's being able to be installed upstream of the SPD but follow the rule of thumb if you don't want to deal with that constraint.
An all in one unit is definitely the way to go.
It can't get any better..
Can it...
Amazing as usual lads.. 👍👍👍
😊Thanks form Team Electrical 👍
I didn't realise that the 1 mtr rule includes both the live conductor AND the earth conductor. Thanks for that update. 👍👍
I assume then that the self contained stand along packages you can buy are fully conversant then.
I'm about to move my consumer unit position (fitting a new one in the process) and moving the cut out into the garage with a 80A switchfuse mounted adjacent to feed the house. I was looking at ready made self contained SPDs and read the instructions. I'm advised that SPDs are not suitable for an overhead fed property (which is my place, a rural position on a hill and exposed). Im puzzled, we have had a lighting strike a few years ago and it took out the TV, fridge and BT equipment (insured luckily) but I have been led to believe we MUST fit SPDs on new installations now. If I'm advised that they are not suitable in my property whats the point, Iwill therefore not be complying with the wiring regs. Im puzzled. What are your thoughts please.
My guess is you need a Type 1 then, have a look at JW on his UA-cam channel - SPD part 3.
Informative and entertaining as always. Can’t beat a bit of torque driver action 👍
My poor old arthritic wrists were aching in sympathy watching that tightening. Also I can think of a few larger switchboards that would exceed the 0.5-1.0m distance just within the board...
THESE TORQUES SETTINGS ARE ALL O/K BUT WHEN YOU ARE JAMMED UP NEAR THE CEILING OR UNDER THE STAIRS NOT SO EASY
I THINK THEY SHOULD MAKE THESE NEW DRIVERS WITH A TEE BAR RATHER THAN THE ORDINARY SCREWDRIVER HANDLE
MIND YOU COULD MAKE YOUR OWN
Thanks for the content SPD’s very helpful team Electrical 😁👍
Very helpful team Electrical 👍👍
Brilliant video guys, very informative. 👍
Great Video, well presented by everyone
👍🏻 thanks Nick
I fit meters which are specific for solar, the torque setting for the terminals are 0.9nm. Had to buy another torque driver handle to go down that low, never seems tight enough but ours is not to reason why and I always do a tug test.
A Tip with Whia drivers is that you can use a spanner on the handle to help with leverage
Hi, fantastic tip 🙌
there was two earth terminal at SPD. Do we need to connect to both PE & E at the same time?
Good idea for a video!
Where does the initial seperate board and spd enclosure stand with regards to 521.5.1 (ferromagnetic enclosures: electromagnetic affects)?
How do you work out the size of the mcb feeding the spd? I have a 63amp and 100amp 3 phase db that needs a spd
Poor old spark following up trying to undo those terminals 😂 on a plus side the last guy said consumer unit, and not consumers unit 😁
Great video guys.. looks like Wera need to step up the game, as my new torque set only goes as high as 3.0nm ... oh dear!
Top tippery as always chaps!
Thanks friend of Tresham 👍👍👍
the best you tuber sparky going nic to see you here you doing a longer gsh vid soon
Hello
If you install a new ring main circuit does it have to have a surge device installed or can the customer refuse
Great video wrist strength test as well 💪
Hence Joe did the torque setting 🙌thanks for commenting and watching GSH Electrical 👍
When IR testing a consumer unit with integrated SPD, do you have to disconnect the SPD when applying 500 VDC?
Hi, you sure do look at the section on IR testing in the On-Site Guide 👍
4.5 Nm seems really excessive. Great Video especially on the relevant reg.
Nobby Hall on some of then cheaper components they would most likely shatter.😂
At 3:46 you measure the length of earth, isn't that arbitrary as there is a length of wire from the earth bar to the Main fuse then to the neutral.....etc. I'm not sure what the 500mm is for and what is the effect of a longer path. Is it just the common earth point of the other circuits?
Dear sir u used spd near the main circuit breaker sum time hi surge in come spd spd is damag then all mcbs is damages ??????
10:28 did I hear a fart? 🤣
Question: Do I understand it correctly that spd has it own 15amp( b-curve?) “fuse”, in that case the cable length of the fase bare through the “fuse” need to be added to the total length (correct?)……
If after a risk assessment it is decided a SPD is required and considering it would then be assumed that a TOV would occur then given that these are single use components it would therefore follow that the installer would likely be required to have on hand a replacement so it is highly likely that the cost would need to include said spare, and in the event of a TOV occuring post install a further SPD would need to be obtained ad infinitum, run that past joe public and I know what the result will be, personally if TOV,s are likely then it should be down to the DNO to provide protection to their customers and if that were indeed a requirement this whole issue would vanish without trace
I think for that SPD you'd also need a risk assessment to cover the poor sod tightening the terminals up!
They are NOT single use components. SPD's are tested to BSEN 61643-1 and this requires them to be tested with a minimum of 20 transient events and still be operational. A good quality, well installed SPD should last in excess of 15 years.
They are not single use devices. But, they can degrade in a surge prone environment, hence the flag indicator window on the cartridge tells you if that has happened. Then, change the cartridge only.
Install the SpD enclosure right next to the DB and use bush and locknut . All good
So are SPD’s required in a domestic dwelling? Or should we ask the IET?
9-slot DB reduced to 5-slots available. How about next week's regulations? Another two slots gone so another DB replacement. Those wires must be getting a bit work hardened by now with all the DB replacements... so let's rewire. Best just to ban electricity altogether. I mean, come on, it can kill! That's my risk assessment done.
Hi there, quick question please. I’m looking to purchase a Proteus 100A DP Electricity Meter Isolator Switch with T2 Surge Protection for my house. Does the regulation still apply in regards to the tails being 0.5mtr-1mtr for this device as is an isolator switch and SPD combined?
could you maybe do a video abot SPD in TT system.. i would like to know more about it..as it is completely diffrent story on TNCS and TT many thanks
Could used bushes, that looks like one of my pj
can you install a spd from an rcd supply i never thought you could the reason being the let thro current it trip before the spd see the transient a type ac or a does not offer 3ka/20micro seconds current wave a type akv,f,b,ev will tho
I got sent this message today on LinkedIn
Hi Gaz, I managed to speak to Ian today from surge, very helpful gentleman and he helped me expand the knowledge about the earth leakage through SPD.
The earth leakage through the SPD durring fault will only be present for no longer the 25 nano seconds therefor considerably quicker than the operation time of the RCDs. This said he mentioned that as the devices get older and worn the during of the earth leakage CAN get longer, therefor potentially cause an upstream RCD issue.
@@GSHElectrical thank you for your quick reply i have done a fair bit of re search into this and have some data that reflects the use of ac or a types being used and them triping before the transient gets to the spd (type 1 especially) my idea would be to have it on a mcb most i fitted so far require a 32 a cct good debate i do like a debate, also whilst i got you can you do a bit of a vid with dses electrical about spds and over head lines lol guys real funny
If you have dual RCD supply and, the RCD supplying the SPD is switched off at the time of the over voltage, SPD won't work anyway.
It doesn't actually have to look good, it just needs to function properly!
I'd argue that for such a short run between enclosures, there's not much need to leave masses of slack as the wire could be easily replaced if it ever needed to so.
so on a hager board with opre fitted spd the earth of the spd is pre wired and connected to the earth bar but the other terminal p/e is empty ???
Hager 18th Edition Consumer Unit With Built in SPD, A Type 100 amp RCD’s to Comply With BS7671 ua-cam.com/video/5OuirPKoY0c/v-deo.html
This might help. Thanks Gaz 👍
AM I OVER CAUTIOUS AS I HAVE 16 AMP IN MY SHED COME WORKSHOP AND HAVE ALWAYS USED 4MM CABLE AM I OVER DOING IT?
If you're a quaified electrician, you should know the answer to that question! If you're not, you probably shouldn't be doing the work yourself.
It's very likely that you're overdoing it with 4mm2 cable, but there are a lot of factors to consider which could require de-rating of the cable and *could* get you to a 16A figure on that 4mm.
4mm2 is fine if limited to 20A if you want more power then 6mm2 on a 32A RCBO
Hey I'm from the UK and Im interested in an apprenaship in the USA. I was wondering if I could hrt your opinions on my situation. And what you might suggest
Great informative video.
If the torque screw driver manufacturers made the screw driver handle a T-bar type it would help the user terminate high torque settings.
how to specify the proper rating of SPD type one like maximum continuous operating voltage ,nominal discharge current and voltage protection level (Up) for the three phase four wire system (230/400) with TT earthing system ?
Why didn't you just mount the SPD box against the main DB and then use a bushing to mechanically join the boxes, you can then push your cables through the bushings.
Easy as pie
i wonder why you need this device anyway. It doesnt work . None of the youtube videos show how the unit actually works.
How much would it cost to have an SPD installed?
think you could check that hight tourque setting
Wonder how many heads will be destroyed at that torque
Nice video
Maybe I’m missing something here but Wondering why spds on anything other than on tt systems do we need both line and neutral protection. In tncs and tns the neutral and earth are connected before entering the Cu. Some spds take up two modules in the cu where space is often precious . I’m thinking connecting the spd to neutral is basically already done. Thoughts please
My point is Surely an spd device is only required on the line as the neutral is already grounded. Unless it’s on a TT supply
TNS connections are not bonded together within a short distance of the installation, there is plenty of length of conductor (with inductance at high frequency) on which the voltage spike can be present
Why braker to spd? It doesn't carry any current..
If I notice the customer has a high end computer like an Apple 27” I would recommend an spd on that alone.
Bloody hell, these spds have opened a can of worms,I’m not going to bother until they are incorporated as standard, hopefully I’ll be off the tools by then.
Can't help but think that the easiest way to compare the installed wiring to a 500mm or 1000mm length of conductor would've been to actually offer-up a 500mm or 1000mm length of the same conductor to the installation. Maybe it's just me but seeing metal tapes anywhere near electrical equipment - even equipment that's not-live - is a no-no!
Should have used couplers to combine both enclosures, looks pant's using stuffers
It’s probably what we had to hand at college that day 👍🏻
I always thought they were called *_consumer units_* rather than *_consumer's units._*
Can they *_really_* be called *_either ?_*
Please clarify, thanks.
>
Consumer Units
Why is it not good practice to clip it to the din rail inside the main DB, Surely that’s a better practice than exceeding the maximum length of run.
Should have reduced the earth distance by installing a terminal block in the remote box
Why the hell does it need to be so tight? It's not like there's any weight or tension on those units. Seems ridiculous!
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
The torque screwdriver effort is "All in the wrist action" - Just like the game "Battling Tops" from the '70's. ua-cam.com/video/mWFwzDJaeKw/v-deo.html
Gaz - Heading miss spelt. "How to Fit a Type 2 SPD Remote form the Consumer Unit" - Should be FROM not form. Cheers.
Sorted 👍 thanks Gaz
Does anybody really have a clue about these SPD's?
It's seems to be mass confusion all round, and hardly any information..
Upstream or down stream of the mcbs, rcds..? One module or two?.. Different for TT/TNCS?.. How the efffing things actually work..? Different types of spd?.... Remotely or in the board?.. but no spare ways?
Perhaps some decent wiring diagrams might help, but there aren't many about..
www.efixx.co.uk/Know%20How/BS7671SPD
Free CPD on SPD’s 👍🏻
👍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
He hasn’t answered the question do we need an sod in a normal household
Why is my electrician suggesting we have a surge protection device fitted? ua-cam.com/video/L29mgEw02NY/v-deo.html
There can't be possibly any good reason the conductors have to be so short other than pushing people into have a board change with an integrated device.
May
May Eceltical pattycall