TTA Podcast 231: The Myth of Sex Addiction (with Dr. Darrel Ray)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- SUPPORT OUR SPONSOR: www.evolvefish.com
SHOP THE TTA STORE: www.evolvefish....
Wait. Sex addiction is a myth?
This podcast features two major parts:
1) The June 20th, 2015 presentation by Dr. Darrel Ray at FreeOK on this very subject. VIDEO HERE: • FreeOK 2015 - Dr. Darr...
2) A follow-up radio conversation between Seth Andrews with Dr. Ray to explore some of these issues in more detail.
Darrel is the founder and Chairman of the Board of Directors of Recovering From Religion. Dr. Ray has been a psychologist for over thirty years and is the author of four books: two on organizational teamwork as well as “The God Virus-How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture” and “Sex and God-How Religion Distorts Sexuality”. He has been a student of religion most of his life and holds a Masters Degree in religion as well as a Bachelor’s Degree in Sociology/Anthropology with a Doctorate in psychology. He is also the director of the Recovering From Religion program called The Secular Therapy Project; a groundbreaking effort to anonymously match interested clients with therapists who adhere to evidence based, secular therapeutic practices in their mental health treatment approach.
In short...we're talking about sex. Get ready for an interesting (and frank) discussion.
Well, religion has always had a dysfunctional relationship with sex.
On the one hand, they (religious authorities) tell you that it's beautiful, it's wonderful, it was created by God to be the ultimate expression of love between a man and a woman; but at the same time, they tell you that it's filthy, it's disgusting, it's shameful; and that you should be ashamed to even THINK about sex, prior to your wedding night They've made even having sexual FANTASIES a sin (they call it "having impure thoughts").
I have a confession to make everyone. I'm a food addict. I've been eating the stuff since I was born and haven't been able to quite since. Please help.
Bandit I know, myself I suffer from Dihydrogen Monoxide addiction every damn day!
I feel ya, Bandit. I have a serious addiction to water. If I don't get any water for a week or more, I'll die.
oh, that stuff is nasty, just go to dhmo.org and you'll find all sorts of horrors there.
Porn addiction? I beat that one handed.
TC Sam with which hand?
TC Sam I wonder where I've seen this comment before... ;-)
I get tired of saying the same things over and over again, but as long as we rely on non-scientific established systems and ideological constructs to govern the totality of our social structure, there is absolutely no reason to expect we will face anything but predatory problems such as this. If there is a profit motive involved, you can expect this type of bullshit. If market proficiency determines resource allocation, you can expect collusion, conspiracy, and corruption. Religion and religious thinking is but a small part of the problem. Its almost pointless to talk about the issues brought up in this topic without delving into the underlying problems of our social structure. We literally can't solve these problems without changing them, though unfortunately the vast majority of people even within the "skeptic" community, are practically allergic to considering such alternatives or thinking outside the box public conformity.
Yay, one of my most favorite people to listen to, having a conversation with another one of my most favorite people to listen to
Just to ask, seth, could you give/put in the description the time stamp when the first part is over? Seeing most of us have already watched the presentation, some might want to skip that first part.
...or rewatch the video, because the visuals there are quite interesting by themselves
Not to be too "nitpicky" here or anything, but in all fairness if one defines "addiction" as: "Behavior indulged in so compulsively as to have negative consequences for other aspects of one's life.", sex "addiction" COULD be considered to be a true addiction EVERY BIT as much as gambling could be considered to be a genuine form of addiction. All "addictions" are chemical addictions, whether those chemicals are introduced to the body from an external source or are endorphins, serotonin, oxytocin, etc. self-generated as a response to behavior which stimulates their production.
Other than that point, I agree wholeheartedly with most of what Dr. Ray had to say here.
I can see all the points. When it comes to language of humans in laws, medical definition, and so forth things can get confusing. This especially for a person with black n' white thinking, with rose colored glasses, and other narrow ways of thinking where there as a way for people to be in vast variation.
I really liked what he had to say about other cultures that don't have our values about marriage and sex. I've always been interested in those cultures and have been learning more about their family structures and the differences between them and us, specifically the San and the Hudsa, nomadic hunter-gatherers. And as such I've really become irritated at certain people/cult-leaders on UA-cam who talk angrily that things like marriage is in decline, and things like polyamoury are terrible, and this is bad for kids etc. etc, when there are these cultures that have lived productively and arguably more peacefully than us for thousands of years where they have no real concept of husbands/wives/fathers. Kids are raised communally and are often more adjusted. A good friend went to stay with the Hudsa (there are still some groups relatively nomadic, and free from alcohol) where no one knew who their fathers were, but it's perfectly accepted and the kids are raised by the tribe.
For those of us, that has seen the lecture already, it ends at 1:01:14
Great episode today :D
- KoperKat Cheers :)
- KoperKat Thank you so much.
I was never shamed by my parents for masturbation (in fact, my mom would embarrass me and tell me it was natural), but it was def. in my culture. Part of it was from my Baptist friends and their religious reasons and part of it was shame for not having sex with a woman.
What's really strange is that I felt less guilty about that and more guilty about ejaculation. My parents told me about sex and that sperm is released into the vagina, but I had no idea it was through semen. When I first ejaculated, I thought I was peeing on myself (it's clear when you first start). I beat myself up over it. I wonder where that came from.
MacGuffin I wasn't shamed either, by my parents. That's because the subject never came up with them. In fact, when I started I had no idea it was actually a thing. I had Sex Ed, which may have mentioned it, I don't remember, but one night I was curious about sex and just started to simulate what I thought Intercourse was like. All I really knew is that it supposedly felt really good, which I confirmed to be true. :D
I didn't feel Guilty per se, but I did feel like I was the only person in the world doing it and felt compelled to keep it a secret. Within a year of starting(I was 12ish), we all became religious. Kind of a more Liberal Evangelical/not totally Fundamentalist crazy, but more towards Fundamentalism as time progressed. This is in Canada though, so it was never quite the same as an American version of Fundamentalist, but it kind of admired the American version it just was always moderated by more Canadian liberal values.
Anyway, that was when Guilt began entering into it. Every night and sometimes during the day I would go and masturbate, but every time afterwards I would be pleading with Jesus for forgiveness and removing this "Sin" from me. Then after that, feeling relieved in the assurance that my Prayer was answered I was at peace again. Until sometime within 24 hours again. :D
That issue didn't really challenge my Faith. I was on fire for Jesus and wanted to know everything about the Bible and Christianity as I could. This involved constant reading the Bible, Prayer, and reading other books that dealt with everything from autobiographies of famous Christians to Biblical Prophecy to Demon Possession to various Theological issues to witnessing to "Cults"(JWs especially). All that study is what tripped me up, or more accurately, opened my eyes. Between all the differences between Christians and learning about other Religions I began to see that things just didn't add up the way I was being taught.
At about the age of 19 I no longer cared to go to Church and really didn't want to even think about religion. I still thought I was Christian, continuing Praying, but that faded over the years. It took almost 20 years before I realized I no longer believed.
oops, went on a tangent again :D
sandor szabados haha No, I love reading these stories.
We just need to make sure we give people birth control and not shame them for using it. I would never want people to have unprotected sex due to STD's and unwanted pregnancies.
Thanks for this video. I like Dr. Ray and it is always a pleasure to hear more from him.
Man, I’ve learn so much 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I had just finished "Sex and God" and I really loved Dr. Darrel Ray's work. It's awesome having him on the show.
Of course the addiction industry wants money. Capitalism has turned into nothing more than a BIG CASH COW. It should be criticized for this.
I don't know about other schools or communities, but going to a catholic school as a male atheist, a lot more is directed towards what the men do and what they shouldn't do. They talk about how the woman's body is beautiful and a wonderful gift from God and, at the same time, propose the idea that only men are sexually driven or are sexually active (or at least only focus on the males). It's always about what men should and shouldn't do and not about what a woman should and shouldn't do. Like I said, I don't know about other communities and religions and all that. But in my case, the men are always portrayed as the villain.
Considering that men commit most sex offenses, maybe that's not so misplaced.
On the Butterfly Effect: "You go through a door at a certain time and bump into someone who changes your life, you get propelled into a different career path ... you do or say something, you end up somewhere, where something really small happens ..."
... you offer a tiny, soaking wet woman an umbrella in the rain one day, she becomes your best friend of several years, you live together, you meet an incredible guy and plan your life together, he cheats on you with the tiny umbrella woman, you never do anything nice for anyone again... you know, the little stuff in life.
A video within a TV show within a lecture within a podcast.
VIDEOCEPTION
Dr. Darrel Ray - Awesome, could listen to him all day - Thank you ;-)
you know the letters S E and X are all on one side of the keyboard already right?
nodvick To make it easier to look up pr0n on the internet.
*****
it is on the left side so that your right hand can be used to type other things. just like how ctrl+shift+escape opens task manager, ctrl+alt+del requires the use of your right hand so the microsoft nerds fixed that.
My ex-wonderful ex-girlfriend "became" a virgin again after she became a fundamentalist christian. Unfortunately I was still Christian then so I didn't have any arguments to try and dissuade her from her path... Fortunately, because of her, I became an atheist!
Fundamentalist Christians have the highest divorce rate among religious people in the US; they also have the highest teen pregnancy rate.
There is not only " slur" shaming but prude shaming. A person should be able to say no , yes, or I don't know give me time.
Though many like to try to control in dominate and aggressive ways in territorial/ownership like ways. The thing about others calling names, giving fallacies, and just using labels what ever way or reasons on others without their consent or choice in any way. This seems common in all cultures with all humans from ancient days until now. I do not expect misconceptions, prejudice, fear, anger, bigotry, and psychology of people will not disappear any time soon. Also control freaks and hateful sadistic jerks will not go away any time soon either.
Hope this is not a stupid question but I guess this criticism is only towards hypersexuality as a disorder and not as a symptom of something else?
Mechanical Menace Religion in general has a fetish for sex, it seems.
The human mind can become addicted to anything - this is different from addicting substances, which change the formatting of your brain, and how it would be without these things. That's the key difference. One is internally driven - a strong desire for something, the other is external, substances directly effecting someone.
I can really identify with a lot of the talk, especially about the fathers feeling shame from losing control over their wives and daughters, men being treated as children within a spousal relationship, and the whole talk after the presentation. I want to know more about that culture that doesn't have an equivalent word for "father," what was it called?
No evidence that porn can affect kids views on sex? What about people who expect what women or men should look like, or that all girls like cumshots etc? Or that all sex is like a pro-porn movie. I've read plenty of articles that talk about the unrealistic ideas kids have on sex because of porn. Not saying he's wrong, I'm just asking if it REALLY doesn't have any influence. (And yes, I watch porn)
While I agree that that sex/porn adictian is ridiculous. If you are letting porn affect your social life or your work, it is a problem .
It's like Facebook addiction. I'm personally not a Facebook addict. I'm on there so little these days most of my friends probably think I've fallen off the face of the earth.
Consent should be included in sex education for kids and adults. Asexuality and the rest of the sexuality spectrum should be taught with all other sexualities as normal. Fetishes should be discussed as they do exist for many. Gender besides that label of man and woman should be taught. It should be seen nature of all intersex being part of the sexes human or other animal.
Sex education is possible at any age appropriate discussion. Though grooming is not good and there should be ways not done. Consent still fits here to discuss with kids, and knowledge that kids saying no is ok of course.
Perverts shouldn't get a free ride to rape or abuse by any means. Some get away with such things anyhow no matter what gender they give themselves.
Well said.
Looks like I'm in a minority here, but I really don't care for him conflating alcoholism, which is a real thing, and sex addiction, which is not. For many drug addicts, abstinence is the only answer. How many people annually die from "sex addiction" as compared to alcohol related issues?
***** Good points all. At the same time, he says that abstinence doesn't work for either one. Telling a drug addict that abstinence isn't the solution is a bit irresponsible. Yes, it is a shame that AA has a stranglehold on dealing with alcohol problems, and this is due in no small part to it being a theistic program.
Nice to see I'm not the only one who sees this "sex addiction" crap for the junk science it is. Like the concept of a devil, it's a complete evasion of human responsibility.
What I got out of this is psychology, psychiatry, and psycho-analysis are hang-outs for quacks and charlatans and the sooner such "professions" are abolished the better.
Are you by any chance a Scientologist, BoskMaster?
You say 'sex addict" like it's a bad thing.
There's always someone immature who will make this statement with out even attempting to understand the real issues.
I thought that this podcast was hilarious.
What a waste of time. He repeats himself over and over again through his talk. This guy needs a script.
Is that the real problem, or is it that you just don't like what he has to say?
I need a cold shower now -_-