Deloria's books should be required reading in public high schools & colleges, particularly God Is Red: A Native View of Religion and Red Earth, White Lies. God Is Red is the best study of Native spirituality & of western Christian religion that I've ever read. And Red Earth, White Lies is an excellent study of western science & of how scientific conjecture & theory become socially accepted as proven fact, particularly in the fields involved in the study of Indian peoples. Deloria was one of the best thinkers & writers of our time.
Absolutely. I read God’s Red Son. It came out in 2017. It is a comprehensive account of the Ghost dance and Wavoka. The dance was misinterpreted , unfortunately , by some of the tribes. Wavoka tried to correct that and never changed his message. But Short Bull and some others gave the people the wrong description or purpose for it. One result was what happened at Wounded Knee. It is not a militant message and the whites were never to disappear. But that’s the way it was understood.
I use In the Light of Reverence every year in my Native American Cultures class, it is a great source of information, viewpoints, and sensitivity. Lots of discussion flows after seeing this film.
I appreciate Vine Deloria, Jr saying he feels sorry for those of us who see value in their traditions and want to get away from the Rugged Individualism that chokes off life. We don't have a community to go back to, and do the best we can to try to live in a different way. Without connection it's very difficult and can't be completely successful. I appreciate him putting that into words. It's not about being a "wannabe", it's about rejecting what we see and trying to live differently.
True, but it's our responsibility to find ways to live better without causing harm to whoever's culture we are interested in. Just look at yoga in the US. I don't think being some kind of nordic pagan is the answer either, I don't really have the answers, but I prioritize consent. Cultural exchange with full consent is a beautiful thing, especially when there is a reciprocal exchange. Just some food for thought..
@@emobloomer I have no idea what you're disagreeing with. Sounds like you're making an assumption about me that has nothing to do with me. What I was saying is that some of us don't have that community to go back to. Did you get that part? Can you empathize with that part?
@@auntiebobbolink Yes I can relate. My interpretation of the video was that he was talking about non-natives, whites who try to appropriate Indigenous spirituality/religion. It seemed like he was identifying the causes of this spiritual longing and having compassion without justifying the response of appropriation.
@@emobloomer again, I said nothing that negated that. Please don't assume that I'm uneducated about the subject. What I did was ADD to that post, not takeaway from it. Part is our problem is that we don't seem to really heat each other, which keeps us from connecting. Connecting is the only way we're re going to get out of the mess we're in. We have to be willing to give each other understanding. Keep in mind that all of our interactions on the internet are SHORT. We can't say everything in one post! That said, if you want to hear some of the native values without threat of "appropriation", search for the videos by Tink Tinker ( Osage).
@@auntiebobbolink What do you mean by heat each other, did you mean to write meet? I think the phrase that made me think we had different interpretations of the video was 'do the best we can', which may be true for you or others, but I don't think describes many of the people he is referring to. Putting appropriation into quotes is something that makes me wonder about that as well, he uses that phrase in the video. Agreed that it is important to connect, with a lot of intention towards how we connect. It is hard to capture nuances in a short online comment as well as tone, etc., But I just was looking to dialogue with someone else who else who the video resonated with. I'll check that out, there are a lot of different opinions on this issue.
The lack of authenticity he describes is a void that was caused by the arrival of Christianity to our tribal lands back in Europe. Before, we were different tribes, each living with an ancestral and animistic worldview, living in balance with the Earth whom we also saw as our Mother; knowing that the rivers, mountains, trees, etc.. ALL had a spirit and consciousness. Many of us have returned to those tribal ways as best we can, although much was lost and destroyed - remnants survived in various folk lore and mythology. The animism is still there within Nature for us to reclaim and then rebuild upon that. Just going out in the forests and listening and experiencing has opened up huge doors in my own spirituality. The problem with New Age is many are on the right track but they are ultimately an offshoot of Abrahamism, holding to some of the same baggage as the three Abrahamic religions. For example, many of them will pay lip-service about Nature and ecology but still when they speak about it this same mind-virus of seeing themselves as separate from Nature, thinking the Earth can be destroyed while its actually a stronger Being than us (this is not to deny actual ecological damage of course). Other descendants of the tribes of Europe should realize we had our own spirituality, with many similar features as the Native Americans. So we need only drink from our own well-spring rather than try to fill the void by taking on and appropriating Native Americans' sacred rituals. We can and should learn from Native Americans of course, but more as a reminder of what was ours, including a knowledge of healing and how to interact with the elements and aspects of Nature; while still reclaiming our own out of a mutual respect towards them. Tribal peoples respect each other and have no religious wars with each other, because we are secure in our own Path so no need to impose it upon others whom we know have more in common with us anyway than even the people who may share our bloodlines or skin color but hold to Abrahamism or its various religious and secular off-shoots with all the values those entail. Even long before I came to my native European tribal path (Germanic, Celtic and Iberian in my case), I spent two weeks on Pine Ridge and had this deep feeling within to approach their traditions out of respect but not venture close, for example to the Sun Dance which I knew and respect was off-limits. My Lakota host advised me to look within my own tribe, which didn't make sense to me at the time but six years later the process finally began and here I am another five years after that knowing who I am.
@@martinjenkins8270 good point . And it was commanded that man would rest dominion over the beasts of the earth and the fowl of the air " Direct contradiction to native thinking . And as you can see this isn't true for indigenous cultures in that animals have just as many rights as we do . Remove animals the world collapses. Remove us and it will flourish
All races of humans are just that. Humans. Culture is what creates meaningful difference. Culture (a group of humans’ collective narrative) is necessary to move in a direction, good, and bad, and both. I understand the sentiment of keeping certain thing culturally pure (keeping the narrative) however, obviously that is not this world. This world is a swinging from chaos to order. Back and forth in a dynamic simple balance. Creating and then dissolving; round and round.
Obviously some cultures are healthier than others. Much about native Americans culture is certainly high human civilization stuff. Particularly pre crusades diseases. This has happened and happens all over the world in all history to and by all peoples.
This man conveys so much wisdom and always a lot of humor. Definitely one of the most thoughtful people I know (never personally unfortunately).
Deloria's books should be required reading in public high schools & colleges, particularly God Is Red: A Native View of Religion and Red Earth, White Lies. God Is Red is the best study of Native spirituality & of western Christian religion that I've ever read. And Red Earth, White Lies is an excellent study of western science & of how scientific conjecture & theory become socially accepted as proven fact, particularly in the fields involved in the study of Indian peoples. Deloria was one of the best thinkers & writers of our time.
Absolutely. I read God’s Red Son. It came out in 2017. It is a comprehensive account of the Ghost dance and Wavoka. The dance was misinterpreted , unfortunately , by some of the tribes. Wavoka tried to correct that and never changed his message. But Short Bull and some others gave the people the wrong description or purpose for it. One result was what happened at Wounded Knee. It is not a militant message and the whites were never to disappear. But that’s the way it was understood.
@randalldemichel4818 did you know wovoka passed out peoyte tea before his sermons ? And he was also a Presbyterian minister .
Beautifully laid out explanation of Western confusion over loss of community. So clear.
I use In the Light of Reverence every year in my Native American Cultures class, it is a great source of information, viewpoints, and sensitivity. Lots of discussion flows after seeing this film.
I appreciate Vine Deloria, Jr saying he feels sorry for those of us who see value in their traditions and want to get away from the Rugged Individualism that chokes off life. We don't have a community to go back to, and do the best we can to try to live in a different way. Without connection it's very difficult and can't be completely successful. I appreciate him putting that into words. It's not about being a "wannabe", it's about rejecting what we see and trying to live differently.
True, but it's our responsibility to find ways to live better without causing harm to whoever's culture we are interested in. Just look at yoga in the US. I don't think being some kind of nordic pagan is the answer either, I don't really have the answers, but I prioritize consent. Cultural exchange with full consent is a beautiful thing, especially when there is a reciprocal exchange. Just some food for thought..
@@emobloomer I have no idea what you're disagreeing with. Sounds like you're making an assumption about me that has nothing to do with me.
What I was saying is that some of us don't have that community to go back to. Did you get that part? Can you empathize with that part?
@@auntiebobbolink Yes I can relate. My interpretation of the video was that he was talking about non-natives, whites who try to appropriate Indigenous spirituality/religion. It seemed like he was identifying the causes of this spiritual longing and having compassion without justifying the response of appropriation.
@@emobloomer again, I said nothing that negated that. Please don't assume that I'm uneducated about the subject. What I did was ADD to that post, not takeaway from it.
Part is our problem is that we don't seem to really heat each other, which keeps us from connecting. Connecting is the only way we're re going to get out of the mess we're in. We have to be willing to give each other understanding. Keep in mind that all of our interactions on the internet are SHORT. We can't say everything in one post!
That said, if you want to hear some of the native values without threat of "appropriation", search for the videos by Tink Tinker ( Osage).
@@auntiebobbolink What do you mean by heat each other, did you mean to write meet? I think the phrase that made me think we had different interpretations of the video was 'do the best we can', which may be true for you or others, but I don't think describes many of the people he is referring to. Putting appropriation into quotes is something that makes me wonder about that as well, he uses that phrase in the video. Agreed that it is important to connect, with a lot of intention towards how we connect. It is hard to capture nuances in a short online comment as well as tone, etc., But I just was looking to dialogue with someone else who else who the video resonated with. I'll check that out, there are a lot of different opinions on this issue.
The lack of authenticity he describes is a void that was caused by the arrival of Christianity to our tribal lands back in Europe. Before, we were different tribes, each living with an ancestral and animistic worldview, living in balance with the Earth whom we also saw as our Mother; knowing that the rivers, mountains, trees, etc.. ALL had a spirit and consciousness. Many of us have returned to those tribal ways as best we can, although much was lost and destroyed - remnants survived in various folk lore and mythology. The animism is still there within Nature for us to reclaim and then rebuild upon that. Just going out in the forests and listening and experiencing has opened up huge doors in my own spirituality.
The problem with New Age is many are on the right track but they are ultimately an offshoot of Abrahamism, holding to some of the same baggage as the three Abrahamic religions. For example, many of them will pay lip-service about Nature and ecology but still when they speak about it this same mind-virus of seeing themselves as separate from Nature, thinking the Earth can be destroyed while its actually a stronger Being than us (this is not to deny actual ecological damage of course).
Other descendants of the tribes of Europe should realize we had our own spirituality, with many similar features as the Native Americans. So we need only drink from our own well-spring rather than try to fill the void by taking on and appropriating Native Americans' sacred rituals. We can and should learn from Native Americans of course, but more as a reminder of what was ours, including a knowledge of healing and how to interact with the elements and aspects of Nature; while still reclaiming our own out of a mutual respect towards them.
Tribal peoples respect each other and have no religious wars with each other, because we are secure in our own Path so no need to impose it upon others whom we know have more in common with us anyway than even the people who may share our bloodlines or skin color but hold to Abrahamism or its various religious and secular off-shoots with all the values those entail. Even long before I came to my native European tribal path (Germanic, Celtic and Iberian in my case), I spent two weeks on Pine Ridge and had this deep feeling within to approach their traditions out of respect but not venture close, for example to the Sun Dance which I knew and respect was off-limits. My Lakota host advised me to look within my own tribe, which didn't make sense to me at the time but six years later the process finally began and here I am another five years after that knowing who I am.
I think whereever Christianity is there is a void and no place for nature. That's why the world is in the mrss it is in
@@martinjenkins8270 good point .
And it was commanded that man would rest dominion over the beasts of the earth and the fowl of the air "
Direct contradiction to native thinking .
And as you can see this isn't true for indigenous cultures in that animals have just as many rights as we do .
Remove animals the world collapses. Remove us and it will flourish
@@anpowicasta2135 totally agree with you. The way the world is going probably would be better off without us. Would heal pretty quick
2:41 Profoundly true, especially today 💡
Most modern cultures are essentially spiritually amputated from nature, and there is a great subconscious longing for that connection.
so much agreed!!!!
Gran erudiccion de la sabiduría antigua .
Give complete authority and autonomy the sacred sites to the Natives, it belongs to them.
Nails it
All races of humans are just that. Humans.
Culture is what creates meaningful difference.
Culture (a group of humans’ collective narrative) is necessary to move in a direction, good, and bad, and both.
I understand the sentiment of keeping certain thing culturally pure (keeping the narrative) however, obviously that is not this world.
This world is a swinging from chaos to order. Back and forth in a dynamic simple balance.
Creating and then dissolving; round and round.
Obviously some cultures are healthier than others. Much about native Americans culture is certainly high human civilization stuff. Particularly pre crusades diseases.
This has happened and happens all over the world in all history to and by all peoples.
Anglo-Euro culture in both it’s secular and mythoreligous forms is bankrupt. This accounts for their earning to participate.
They're still trying to figure out how to buy and sell happiness