Cultural Norms Cloud Cockpit Communications
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Fearing dishonor more than death, crew members allowed a minor malfunction to result in a major catastrophe for Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509. Find out what caused this 1999 plane wreck.
From: AIR DISASTERS: Bad Attitude
bit.ly/1niLboA - Розваги
After this incident the whole airline went under investigation. Now no matter how old or how much more experienced the captain is, the first officer can correct him without being shamed at work. So do not worry anymore.
Jeongho Lee Do not worry?? How sure are you?!! Trust me, I will NEVER let myself and family to fly on an airliner as passengers with two korean cockpit crew at the control!. I am speaking from the point of view as an expat pilot who flew in Korea for a good for years.
But what if its a female pilot?
Id still be there for it. :)
@JS Mubi
I would. Even if its all female im still in for it. 😊
JS Mubi is Korean air that bad?
Sage Ashirai same here. They are all generally bad pilots anyway
The actor of the captain is the same who played the captain in the JAL123 episode. His name is Denis Akiyama
He also played the captain in the KA007 episode too.
He sadly passed out June 28 2018
@@andrewilliamcesardossantos1555 yeah sadly ACI legend
He was also in the movie 'Pixels'
Same
I don't care how superior my boss is. His idiocy is not taking me down with him without a fight. How the hell can you remain silent as your death approaches?
You don't know mate, it's happened in so many aviation incidents in the past
Charles P. He can remain silent because the video is staged. :)
@@jacobski5726 You know it's a recreation of a REAL incident right? A real incident where the first officer didn't correct the Captain because of their cultural norms
Countries like Japan and Korea believe in such things due to their history.
Your absolutely right!
Anyone here from Mentour?
Daniel Ballantyne I am ! Haha
Yhup
Here I am😛 Shocked how both pilot and co-pilot put their pride above their own lives
!
Yep, again :-)
Even a small negligence can lead to an unforgettable regret.
I don't care if you're a captain, senior first officer, first officer or second officer, flying a jetliner is teamwork.
Don’t worry guys... KAL has come a long way since the 1990s when they used to crash a jumbo jet every year or so. They tried hard to get rid of the militarism in civil aviation since that crash, and now KAL is pretty safe to fly with. (Although AAR is exhibiting some inexplicable idiocy in recent years)
Uh.
What does AAR stand for? :)
@@thereallincolntakanashi AAR stands for Asiana Airlines
@@tommymoon6003
OH ok. :)
@Paul Jeeves San Fran is one
"Air India 855" another Boeing 747 crashed under similar conditions on 1st January 1978 in Mumbai
Well that escalated quickly.
How could he not feel the plane banking? What a shame
you don`t feel bank.
Spatial disorientation. As a commercial pilot in training I have experienced this (with an instructor for an exercise). I held the plane straight for less than 2 minutes before my instructor told me to take off the hood and recover. I was stunned; you can't put the experience into words. This is something that if you don't experience yourself then you wouldn't be able to fully understand.
They're in the air and they always always listen to their instruments. That's what they're trained for I believe but damn fuck the culture that's some scary shit.
AWC the same happened to my classmate on her first solo flight on the B747 in Microsoft Flight Simulator X. The exact same thing here happened to her, but it took longer because she was at a higher altitude (39,000ft) and also I didnt have a cockpit assembly (I could only use the keyboard), and another classmate tried to recover but she insisted that nothing was wrong.
Same happemed in an A330 (A333) mod for FSX. She stalled the plane but I (we) did not dare correct her action. IDK why tf I made that mistake. Otherwise if you fly with her in FSX or X Plane, youre safe. O_0
I am sure the g force would have been greater than 1.5
Im half korean and we called this type of person KKONDAE 껀대 which mean stick to the old ways were korean are teach to respect senior but in this extreme way it can lead to disaster like this
Its 꼰대 mate. Still this culture existing tho …
I think the first officer thought that the captain can handle the aircraft but it turns out 👎
The captain is supposed to be able to handle the plane since HE IS OLDER AND AN EXPERIENCED PILOT. However his flight experience is limited to fighter jets since he is a former air force pilot. As a result, he has very experience in flying a commercial jet with instruments more complex that that of a fighter jet. After the accident, KAL adopts new training methods to train all of their pilots regardless of age, experience or background.
How could the pilot not notice that the plane was turning too much?
the fluid in the inner ear.
There was a failure in one of his flight instruments.
Alejandro R. The co pilot is so angry will the captain until he didnt tell him about the bank
The captain did not listen to his instruments and the First Officer did not correct him nor the Flight engineer either.
Er Oe tht too being an experienced captain
Thanks goodness it was only a cargo flight and not a passenger flight
True, if it was a passenger flight, the captain is responsible for the death of hundreds of lives.
MrLantean
This captain only killed himself, his crew and a few million dollars of cargo.
Thank god it is not A380 With full of Passengers.
@@mightyheart999 it was a 747 there are no a380 Freighters
Rui Gonçalves he said passengers
The captain is also the same dude in the “Target Is Destroyed” documentary about a KAL flight 007 who ventured unwittingly into Soviet Airspace and was hunted/taken down by Mig fighter planes.
I really don't want to fly with this guy... ever....
its also the captain of jl123
They put two independent artificial horizons for a reason. If you don't have teamwork to compare both, then you're inviting disaster.
Also it’s a common Korean practice to respect your elders or the higher person
Very common in Eastern Asia, particularly Southeast Asia for some reason. I myself was raised in one such family, with “tiger parents”. Was raised to believe what you’re saying.
This same issue (deference to authority figures within the context of Korean culture) may have been a factor in the crash of KAL 214 at SFO on July 7. I suspect the senior pilot wasn't paying sufficient attention on approach and none of the other three pilots alerted him..
Lars Klassen that was Asiana, not Korean air. :)
Blaming this on korean culture is a bit unfair as similar accidents happened in the west: United Flight 173 and the Tenerife disaster (with over 500 deaths) were both caused by a captains mistake which the crew noticed but didn't dare to correct. So exactly the same thing as in this case
Same outcome, different origins.
It's happened multiple times within the Asian culture with some plane crashes from what I've heard. Not just this time.
ggurks It has happened plenty of times around the world.
You are correct, however I will take my chances with someone who is licensed trained in the US.
ggurks That is true, but social hierarchy in the cockpit was a common thing in KAL because of Korean culture. So it isn't exactly the same thing because the other accidents that were mentioned were isolated cases from the other pilots in their respective airlines (the were just simply unassertive, the system didn't make them unassertive), but the KAL accident was caused by the culture that was rooted in these pilots.
20 years today
Flight engineer: "Bank, BANK!!!"
Pilot: "where?"
Whoa the filght engineer is to loud when he said bank!
Good thing it isn’t a passenger plane
Sometimes your senses are right and your instruments are wrong
Yeah co-pilot senses are right and captain instrument was failed
Wait the Captain was the Came Actor For the Japan Flight 123 One
A crew not speaking up against the captain also caused the most infamous of disasters at Tenerife. By a Dutch crew. This is not a Korean culture thing alone.
pop5678eye That is true, but social hierarchy in the cockpit was a common thing in KAL because of Korean culture. So it isn't exactly the same thing because the other accidents that were mentioned were isolated cases from the other pilots in their respective airlines (the were just simply unassertive, the system didn't make them unassertive), but the KAL accident was caused by the culture that was rooted in these pilots.
Also the dutch crew was a different case because it was between a young crew and the Airline's star (like he's the dude who appears on their adverts and is pretty much the face of the airline) pilot. It wasn't happening on a day-to-day basis at KLM.
well its still a huge contributing factor that caused alot of Korean air and Asiana Air crashes, the Daegu subway fire and the Sewol ferry disaster
Why i'm getting this "i'm just as confused as you are?" Type of situation therefore there's no interaction. They were so confused that they can't even say anything let alone figuring out the problem?
We had that type of situation in our lives where we're confused speechless.
*THIS*, is WHY, in the Star Trek canon, ALL socio-economic/law enforcement protocols were transferred to engineering/science and NOT "social" studies or politics. Safety FIRST!!!!! BY normal, logical, smart people, FIRST! We're getting there, just one tech development away(space travel).
0:57 the first officer's face looks like the asiana pilot
Clagger Greater. They tend to recycle their actors
@@someguy1576 Recycle? I am not sure I understand...
@@Arkensius1157 they use the same actors for some episode.
eg:
the same actor who was captain Park in this episode played as the captain of both JAL123 and KAL007.
0:55 Also why did the captain look back at his flight engineer I think that he did something wrong or one of the warnings were faking and it set off by itself what was the cabinet thinking
You mean Flash Airlines Flight 604.
I love that thumbnail
The guy playing the captain has been on other mayday/Air crash investigation programmes.
The guy is way or acting the part, by way of his facial expressions and manorisms.
where's the full episode
OMG does those people on board had died in the captain didn’t listen
It's a Cargo flight.
lousy teamwork=disaster all round
Is that Flight North or South Korea????
Crew resource is crucial and the captain just slapped that rule and did not listen to his FO. It makes me really mad as a real pilot.
never saw this episode
I wanna know the track from 0:25?
I didn’t see the fire in the engine didn’t run out of gas four put a Korean air cargo four the invisible fire
2023, it won’t changed. Im airline pilot in Korea.
As an Korean 1:28 this part and 3:28 this part are weird. This is traditional Japanese attire
The first officer is the same actor in the Garuda Indonesia 152 crash.
Well, this sealed my decision to avoid flying airlines from Asian countries and Turkey.
Wouldnt the pilot feel if the plane was banking?
They all knew it was banking. The pilot did this on purpose and crashed the plane on purpose.
The problem is that all highly experienced crew are trained to ignore their senses and trust their instruments. This is because when planes turn at high speeds, the fluids in a person’s ear can be shaken, causing spatial disorientation, which prevents the pilots from accurately telling which direction they’re banking at. The plane could be banking heavily to the right or the nose of the plane could be pointing downwards but the pilots wouldn’t notice and think that they’re perfectly level. When this happens, disaster can happen (examples being the JFK Jr Plane Crash, The Day The Music Died and Airasia Flight 8501). To prevent this, pilots are trained to ignore their sense and rely on their instruments for accurate readings. Unfortunately, in the case of Flight 8509 (crash shown in the video), the artificial horizon on the captain’s wasn’t working properly and since the captain was trained to rely on the instruments, he thought the plane was still level and applied more pressure to the yoke to get the plane to turn, unfortunately that just caused the already banked plane, to bank further and crash.
Wouldn’t the fluids in your head tell your brain the plane is on an angle
The captain received disciplinary actions from the company just a couple weeks prior to the crash because he didn’t follow the instruments on a previous flight. He likely didn’t want to get another penalty and just zoned out all other information.
Captain Looks the same like the one in JAL123
I mean the ATC controller.
Same actor from "Out of Control"
Elliot Chen And “Target is destroyed”
the engineer should be the captain-
3.28 imagine our pilot from old Century
Just a mistake made by Korean pilots
...really ??? 😳🤔🙄
Captain park duk kyu adi bank
uh.. what?!
Flight enjineer is cute❤😮
Definitely
1:28 CVR Recording
Korean air 8509??
Yes, that's what this is.
Did the pilots die when they crash are about crash show us I repeat show us
They did sadly die😭
You still find this in countries like India, everywhere. From the IT corporates to the streets. No wonder these countries are called third world.
1:25 LG And Samsung
I think the captain does not feel like to become pilot and wants to destroy korean air cargo and more pilots
Oh my gosh the arrogance
It's all too believable. Arrogant authoritarian attitudes exist in every culture on earth.
No offense, but social hierarchy sometimes gets innocent people killed. Im happy the Koreans are in good hands with most of the world, but their social hierarchy is a red flag to me.
the cvr says:
pilot: moroke torotorotorote balarakamolromonomonote
Looks like Finnish.
Korean air
Now they just have to deal with crazy CEO daughters having a fit over macadamia nuts in first class.
Omg
Who agrees that the pilots voice sounds scary⬇️. ⬇️
1.12
1:12
@@rayhan_aviation0014 you can edit comments
You mean Asiana, not KAL.
어휴 저넘에 위계질서 때문에 기장이 뭔?왕이냐!!공군에서 전역하고 민간항공기에 들어가니 저런일이 발생하지 민간 항공기는 파일럿은 좀 따로 배출해라!!
Khmer
Wata fak !!
I think blaming Korean culture and cultural norms is a little rude to say the least. This can happen anywhere. It could happen in the US, Europe so saying our customs are why is definitely insulting and offensive!!! Not to mention Korean Air's reputation lately has been a lot better. Their standards are higher and THAT is thanks to Korean customs!
Because your culture made the 2 boeing 747 crash in 2 years that was the dangerous stat for the aviation that mean if they not change immediately it will happen again so that not the little rude
Their standars are higher because these dumb and old-fashioned cultural norms have been removed from aviation.
You’re right.
Why you never let Asians a near an airplane
greg fishhman agreed they can't drive nor fly
What a stereotype. Statistics show that white people and other races go into car crashes far more than asians do. Also look at the amount of crashes from Asian airlines compared to North American or European airlines.