J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1984 - Scientists Seminar 1 - What is thought?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1984 - Scientists Seminar 1 - What is thought?
Summary:
Can one observe the structure and nature of the brain in oneself, rather than externally?
Is it necessary to have a theory or model to see what is actually going on?
Why do we divide the brain at all?
What is thought? What is thinking?
The observer is the past, memory, knowledge, experience. Can I look at something without the past?
Psychologically, why should I accumulate?
If action is 'I will do' or 'I have done', it is not action. Action is now.
When the observer is the observed there is a radical change in the brain.
To change a physical habit is fairly simple but a psychological habit demands much greater energy.
I have an insight that going north is futile, and the insight says go east, and I move. There is no interval in this movement.
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5 scientists and krishnamurti debating with all of them, when he was living at his 90 years old. What a marvelous way to achieve the last part of life, so fresh, so lucid, so clear ❤ thanks K
indeed, i agree! I've been listening to him for years, reading his books and am always amazed at his knowledge. And “I” myself make quantum leaps in thinking! greetings from germany , Elias
Just a reminder that Krishnamurti was 89 years old here.
I keep spreading this information to my friends and family but their ego makes it more difficult than it should be
Dear god, talking to scientists is almost impossible. He says something terribly simple, to understand oneself just look, see, observe simply and clearly what's going on. But in a second they've flown away into theories and complete complexity and made a huge problem out of it. Which they think is terribly interesting :-)
I felt the same frustrations, there was so much nit picking and splitting hairs. They would ask one question, then ask another without giving the first question any consideration, and barge in when K was attempting to encourage them to be quiet, listen and explore things with him properly. I found they made it more and more convoluted and murky, and wished that K had been given more time and space to reply at greater length.
They're conditioned by knowledge
They are bound by the laws that everyone uses to understand the world
It's not a simple task to unbound your understanding of the world. I don't believe I could do it
They are asking genuine questions that they don't understand because they are conditioned just as you and myself and even Krishnamurti was, which is better then just accepting Krishnamurti for the sake of being an "old wise man".
I mean, just notice what you're doing right now. You're putting scientists into a box as if you are any different, but if you actually listen without judgement you will notice that their questions are actually relevant as they're very similar to our internal dialogues.
45.07 made my day I experience my past cumulatively NOW; I speculate on the future - THAT is also NOW !
Philosophers contemorize the past concept with words attracting the present anxious or excited minds to establish their unique identity. JK had used Vedanta concept of 'Saaksin'-direct witness, beyond sensory, intellect action and influence for his conceptual 'observer of the observed'.
Say you are Indian without saying
@@pawanbrar6412😅
Insight meaning in last 3min...👌
This man should have won the nobel prize forever, untill everyone has deeply understood, have become free & enligentened.
He won't accept that
I think he was given a peace medal … whatever that means, by the United Nations. That is …. by the “United” Nations.
I presume he accepted it out of courtesy, or in the spirit it may have been given in.
It would be, from the evidence of what he has said … meaningless to him, in itself.
Just looked it up. He was awarded a UN peace medal for “peace and awareness” in 1984, two years before his death.
@@rozeskafle6163 He “accepted” a UN peace medal.
Have you understood?
La medalla no la aceptó. La devolvió y se la volvían a entregar. Está todo filmado y finalmente la arroja al piso. Aceptar la medalla es aceptar la fragmentación con todo lo q esto implica.
Should be at least 7 mln subscribers.
1% of world population.
JK you're the sharpest thing I've ever known simply awesome
I don't know when I will be able to understand you
Ohhh God I forgot to say your smile is killing them
Hello Sandeep, do you still listen to JK ??
@@Gaurav.P0yes
Very important observation re observer is observed at 26.29 minutes. Worth listening.
Oh yes thank you!
Now I understood why he very easily says , that thought is limited ,
Why he says I am whole humanity,
Why he says conflict in everything
Why he say its instant mutation,
Jiddu I understood you
Why you say no authority is required , And why you say it will mean athourity will creat more delusion ,
I understood why you say religion And gurus are the worst ,now I understood why any meditation technique is not going to work totaly insteed it will make burden And I understood why meditation can Not give permanent peace of kind
Jio jiddu you did great Job , wherever you are My thanks to you to demolish whole programming Or conditioning in just One moment of understanding
❤❤❤❤❤❤
With all do respect, and sorry about my english; but it seems to me, that all these "proffessionals", didn't understood Jiddu, every single time when they asked something to to him, they looked lost in their own cuestions, and i coul't avoid to feel and think to my self, is these really happend, such a waste of time, such a waste of opportunities to make the right cuestions to a big thinker.
As a matter of fact, they looked so deperate and angry with Jiddu, but the truth was that they were mad becouse there own ignorance and or their own limited reflections about the subject, did´t allowed them to open their minds, speeking about thought, by the way.
Don't know, but it was interesting to me to observe, speeking of observation; a bunch of inflamated egos struggling and arguing with a greater mind than theme selves, and im not saying that Jiddu was or had the whole truth, or did he?
Edgar Salvador Alzate Alvarado Hey he pulled it out of them, reflection is not so bad, how else can you deal with a manipulative human mind. A mind that supressed itself.
But Francisco Varela came pretty close to the perception of X. Regrettably for us he had to be spend a relatively short time only.
I observe similarly. The scientists have hard time opening their mind to understand/learn something new that challenges their existing knowledge.
I agree with you fully, this became only a discussion. If one is looking for a dialouge with scientists there is this: ua-cam.com/video/AoMS5b2MLRc/v-deo.html which is a dialouge. What I can see is that the scientists here wants something, a theory or something, from Krishnamurti. They arent willing to put in their own effort, they are only defending their standpoints. The link I provided shows how rich sucha dialogue can be if one keeps an open mind.
Gracias por subir este material 🙏
At 22:00 Que- What is thought ?
.
At 35:12 Where Knowledge is Necessary
.
At 1:11:07 Thought Is Limited
I have thousands of words in my memory but I use them only when they are necessary but if I chatter those words again and again (what we do in inner chattering)I carry the burden of repeating the memory. The problem is not memory but repeating it in mind that the whole point K is trying to point out.
When K speaks, listen to the questions, try to make his point, is he not using the faculty of Mind? Same goes with language, we use it to communicate, The conflict arise when we live in “desire” not in need, needs are basic, human society has evolve beyond needs and dominated by Desire, the effort to fulfil the desire leads to suffering, when “Other” enters division is created.
He’s speaking from a totally different dimension of the mind beyond the limitation of thought. The brain has much more capacity than we usually exercise
people are looking for theory for love, how can there a theory for love ?
Scientists don't understand love
We make simple things so complicated
Intergenerational wounding vs our intrinsic, but unrecognised oneness. K saw it and I think, Varela too. Thanks for posting this pointer to the moon.
wonderfull to wonder between all those opinions
Dear science learn to know thy self, this is where the Answer to your question's are to be found.
if thought creates reality, can we create abundance of all which lasts forever ?
Yes but not just 1 person thinking that way and millions thinking there is only lack.
More positive minded people, more positive changes.
Think that food and water exist in abundance, but governments make the masses believe that it is not enough to sustain all.
The consequences and the reasons of that you know them very well….
Thought can control matter. Matter and thought is energy. Those who have this power, they don't have scientifically and mathematical knowledge to invent something. So to invent something like free energy device like Tesla proposed, We have to see the reality with brain and mind working together so that they know the why of things. Like why gravity pulls the objects? We never know the cause, we only know the effect. We never know why there is gravity? We know how it behaves and we name it as gravity, But we don't know the cause, Cause is given by cosmic internal intelligence or God. So when the mind is operating inside out, you have Tesla, buckminster fuller, etc. So all the problem of existence will be solved and everything will be invented and discovered which is necessary of existence. At last Humanity instead of living in physical body they will live metaphysically and leave the body for the further evolution of existence in different planet. The Human life as we know in physical body will be terminated by new reality in psychical form. That is the meaning of life. That is where all humanity is heading, in the evolution of limited to cosmic consciousness.
@@aek12THERE'S no free energy. We can only get energy my converting matter to another form.
The real question and more important is: who defines how much is abundance and how much is enough for everyone? The mind who looks for the solution is the same mind that created the problem at the beginning ❤
Observing without The “Me” 🧠❤️🩹😎👍🙏🏻
No words just observe
@Sujan Aryal So What Do You Find
yes because what we can't think about is what is watching
In fact thought is needed just because the experience is limited n finite.
They are trying to understand in the realm of words while Krishnamurti is proposing another dimension of relationship not limited by words, unlimited. But we are so used to the words, ratio, that it's not easy to grasp the truth of what Krishnamurti is expressing. It's very very difficult for me, after thousands of years of that way of living you can understand. We worship word. We think that what words cannot express does not exist. Indeed Jesus the Christ is the word, "il verbo". God said words and so he created the world, (wor-l- d). The book is an object to adore... words. But they are limited. All this is related to the birth of the civilization, that we tend to extend to all the universe, the infinite.
Beautifully said 🙌
❤❤
Francisco Varela. After His theory of autopoiesis, everything changes. Not many people know about him and His relation with dalai lama...
pl upload all videos of this seminar
The whole series is already available: ua-cam.com/play/PL1n30s-LKus7WjuSvbN_hU-xFiDAGHnk8.html
This is truth verry truth
This is changation through liestning
When I am caught in stupid resistance, I fancy it take the voice of Shainberg :ddd
Is it possible K lacked some part of the brain that is responsible for this “self” creation / inward recording ? #38:00
Hola,donde se puede conseguir este video con subtitulos en español ?
Estos videos son muy dificil de encontrar..
Pero talvez Amazon los pueda tener por lo menos.uno. Buena suerte.
This guy is the proof that we are aliens
He is, not many like him.
one side has the base of freedom and un-condition, and one side is the opposite
I don’t know who the dude in the middle was trying to impress but him not listening and rushing answers “yes, absolutely, i understand, you’re right” bothered me so much. That’s not how one can truly grasp someting, by shooting it back the moment received it. Let the damn thing be enveloped by silence after it has been said for two seconds. He made me upset because he slit open my attempts to fully grasp what has been said.
Stop the video then 😂
🙏🙏
memory is Always record but when you think about thats happend to me (with all the emotions etc.) this is the wrong Interpretation of that recording. But when you See it as simply happening you Look in a complete other way of "youre" memory, it isnt anymore youres, it becomes only memory
❤️
Such theoritical discussion it is for scientist to know better than before for themself play with these new toy of abstraction (intellectually), man who gather so much knowledge don't know why most have various assumption in it itself incomplete in itself what one think gathering such of any good for not continuing nuisance then why they do with it as the only importance of whole life ,they came upon it chancefully because of certain background in which they live it has no meaning to non scientist in a fundamental level
The one in the pink shirt seems like he is listening to argue
Vary cheap discussion by thease all poor scientist! Here krishnamurty has waisted his time and energy
spot on! 👍
...means you are more intelligent than J.K. and obviously "all poor scientists".
@@arturasbuilovas It is downright amazing how intelligent the people commenting on Krishnamurti's videos are. They understand everything - hopefully they can put it to practice in the daily life.
:)
You can not understand God with egoic mind.
he was a crook
true the oldie sucked !
First one minute when K speaks I hear logical compassion for life.
❤❤❤
Observation from about 1:09.45. He hadn't even completed his statement when he said that the problem is that even though someone like him comes along telling them to keep quiet so he can tell them [about the metaphoric path to East being the right one over North] they won't listen to him in silence for 5 minutes ....you can't keep quiet...you keeping asking me questions after questions. And as he said that not even a second passed when a scientist interjected with a turtle and scorpion analogy. ..a missed opportunity to receive 5 minutes of uninterrupted wisdom from the World Teacher. Just wow!
Describing how the mango taste is harder to explain to one who has never seen the mango. It all became clear when one taste the mango and experience the taste with his whole being.
Wow very nicely put ❤
Questioners are using existing phenomena, established, organized, brain-(physical tool)created, relative, historical (linear) to define Absolute truth which is center-less, boundless, non-linear, synergistic, ever-moving in all relations yet time-less. Quantum energy schools are raising the doubts and ready humanity to reach this pathless land. Thanks K and friends.
David shenburg talks with k from long back time but he still does not get sufficient understand the point
I came here to see what is thought but they didn't let him answer that at all. Too many experts never let to get anything done ! Such a waste of time
goosebump from 30 to 35 min
love u jiddu
true observer
If this would be teached to everyone the world would be a way better place, this should be common knowledge
I agree
Sub-titles would have been helpful, it came across w/low volume on my device.
But, my appreciation anyway.
There is subtitles.
¡Qué maravilla! No tenía idea que Francisco Varela y Krishnamurti se habían conocido. Muchas gracias por hacer posible este material.
Acabo de enterarme que es chileno, no tenia idea de este científico nacional, sera mejor que conozca mejor su trabajo
the animals are speaking more than the human krishnamorty !!
I Think We are curse with THEORIES ... AND THE NEUROSURGEON LAUGH. Now i wonder why many physicist says string theory is dead end 🤔🤔🤔 theories ...
🙏🏻
They are genuinely interested in asking questions and they really want to know answer to themselves so they can implement in their lives. I know this because I myself wanted to understand to liberate myself
Thought is limited..but direct experience is even more limited..
46:21 second ciclo of understanding togetherness.
The brilliance of Krishnaji
In this discussions, in repetitiveness of questions and answers-causal of thought; action; internalization and externalization, etc., what's JK'S state or condition? Is JK observer, observed or observer and observed? If observer, was he not acting out accumulation, memories? If observed, without the past, does he say totally or completely anew, in his every action? If JK was observer is observed, did he perceive the reality in other's outwardly saying(s)?
K said and used word “Watching” frequently in his talk, watch the origin of thought” human Imagination, Perception, Feeling and the complexity of mind, the whole content of it and he use this term all the time “ watching” observing. Now I want to ask who he is asking to observe? I can’t observe my own self never, It will always be part of Me observing or watching other part of me,,, Observing is only possible If there is something “other then me” present who is watching objectively, but there is nothing beyond mind as a whole unity, so how mind can watch its full content?
K is saying that it is possible to watch the content of our minds (thougths, feelings and so on) and thus learn more about this content. When there is watching in this manner there is the direct seeing of the fact that thought is to a large extent unintelligent and unwise. This watching and learning naturally make us less and less attracted to "follow" thought, since we see for ourselves that thought is unintelligent and unwise. The "I" that is watching this content is the only subject there is: timeless awareness/consciousness. This is the real "I". The "me" is a concept in the mind. //Kind Regards.
in 01:04 is soo funny! i saw in that place the answer to the issue jajaja
Why academics make rudimentary stuff so convoluted? Not even allowing K to complete and heckling him incessantly.
Wordplay is fun. And reductionists rejoice in it.
Now I got jiddu Krishna murti ,
Please add English subtitles
"observer is observed" does that mean 1. observer becomes the same at the moment what he observed.or
2.observer never observed any new change.
The way I understand it is - there is just observation, there is no observer or the observed. This is in reference to the non dualistic approach which expounds that there is "no two". Self creates the separation as we see it and dissolving the self (the observer in this case) results in no observation from the point of reference of the observer. What remains is true observation standing by itself and not through your experience (of the self)
He means thought divides observer and the observed. Without an entity to take ownership of thought there is just observation.
27:00
The disrespect!
Yes everybody discussing with Krishnamurti should sit with folded hands and bowed heads listening respectfully. Somehow I am not so sure K himself would have agreed with that or liked that.
this is great!
K : But when we see at a deeper level...
Scientist nr. 5 : See I ve never heard you use the word level, should we not think about the different levels and their relationship to what has been said.
Dear sir, you missed the water from the boat 🤣